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All In with Chris Hayes, Transcript 8/29/2016

Guests: Danny Davis, Wesley Lowrey, Lynn Sweet, A.J. Delgado, Drew Gattine, Michelle Goldberg, Josh Barro; Bruce Schneier

Show: ALL IN with CHRIS HAYES Date: August 29, 2016 Guest: Danny Davis, Wesley Lowrey, Lynn Sweet, A.J. Delgado, Drew Gattine, Michelle Goldberg, Josh Barro; Bruce Schneier

CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voice-over): Tonight on ALL IN --



(END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES (voice-over): Down in the polls, the quote, unquote, Trump outreach continues.


TRUMP: The cousin of NBA star Dwyane Wade -- a great guy, Dwyane Wade -- was the victim of a tragic shooting in Chicago.


HAYES (voice-over): Tonight the backlash to Donald Trump`s racial appeal in the wake of shootings. Plus, is the wall with Mexico going virtual?


TRUMP: Who is going to pay for the wall?



HAYES (voice-over): Seventy-one days out, the latest version of Trump`s immigration plan. Then, the FBI`s new warning after two state election systems are penetrated by hackers. The Clinton camp`s new questions about Donald`s doctor --


UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I get anxious when I get rushed.


HAYES (voice-over): And as Donald Trump attacks, why there`s a false equivalency between Anthony Weiner and the man running Trump`s campaign.

TRUMP: I knew before they caught him with the bing bing bing. HAYES (voice-over): But ALL IN starts right now.

HAYES: Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes. After not holding an event in a black community for more than a year, the Trump campaign has announced Donald Trump will appear at a predominantly African-American church in Detroit on Saturday where he will be interviewed by Bishop Wayne T. Jackson, president of The Impact Network, on National Christian Television Network. "This interview is not a rally or an endorsement for Mr. Trump," Jackson said in his statement. "This is an opportunity as a community to get answers to questions that seriously impact our daily lives and future." The event was announced in a Trump campaign statement by surrogate Pastor Mark Burns this afternoon. And I should warn you that some viewers may find this image we`re about to show you offensive. Burns tweeted out this rather odious cartoon showing Hillary Clinton in black face. A short time ago, Burns defended the tweet on our air.

PASTOR MARK BURNS (voice-over): The picture is designed to do draw attention to the very fact that Hillary do pander after black people. She do pander. And the policies are not good for African-Americans. It is doing exactly what it`s designed to do.

HAYES: All this comes as Trump appears to be recovering slightly from the worst depth of his post-convention polling slide during which he engaged in a sustained feud with the parents of a slain U.S. soldier. A new national poll shows Clinton with a 7-point lead over Trump among likely voters, down from her 13-point lead in the same poll three weeks ago. And as outreach to African-Americans, Trump has painted an incredibly negative portrait of the daily lives of black people in America, a characterization that has been both wildly offensive to many of its ostensible audience and seems tailored to appeal to a certain sector of white voters by trafficking in the worst possible stereotypes of black life. Speaking on Saturday, in the overwhelmingly white state of Iowa, Trump pointed to the murder in Chicago of Nykea Aldridge, a cousin of basketball player Dwyane Wade, who was shot and killed on Friday while pushing her baby in a stroller.


TRUMP: Just yesterday, the cousin of NBA star Dwyane Wade -- a great guy, Dwyane Wade -- was the victim of a tragic shooting in Chicago. She was the mother of four and was killed while pushing her infant child in a stroller just walking down the street. Shot. It breaks all of our hearts to see it. It`s horrible. It`s horrible. And it`s only getting worse.


HAYES: That, however, is very different from Trump`s initial reaction upon hearing the news. Trump seemed at the time to view the murder of this woman, Nykea Aldridge, as a real political opportunity, tweeting, "Dwyane Wade`s cousin was just shot and killed walking her baby in Chicago. Just what I`ve been saying, African-Americans will vote Trump." Trump had to take down and re-post that tweet because he had spelled Dwyane Wade`s first name incorrectly. Only after that did his campaign tweet out condolences to Aldridge`s family. This morning, Trump continued with the theme, writing, "Inner-city crime is reaching record levels. African-Americans will vote for Trump because they know I will stop the slaughter going on." Trump`s claim that inner-city crime is reaching record levels is false. While the murder rate has increased, worryingly, in many major cities this year, Washington Post notes that crime rates continue to be lower, urban areas safer, than they were in the 1980`s and the early 1990`s, and violent crime has been plummeting for two decades. Even in violence-ravaged Chicago, which is on pace to see more than 600 homicides this year, the murder rate is still substantially lower than it was in the early 1990`s. Trump claims it would be easy to lower the current murder rate, telling FOX News last week he knows a guy who could fix everything. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I know police in Chicago. If they were given the authority to do it, they would get it done.


TRUMP: How? By being very much tougher than they are right now. They`re right now not tough. When I was in Chicago, I got to meet a couple of very top police. I said, how do you stop this, how do you stop this? If you were put in charge to a specific person, do you think you could stop it? He said, Mr. Trump, I`d be able to stop it in one week. And I believed him 100 percent.


HAYES: The CPD, Chicago Police Department, says Trump met with none of their representatives, and the Trump campaign has declined to identify the person Trump was speaking about. Yesterday during a press conference on the murder of Nykea Aldridge, Chicago Police Superintendent Eddie Johnson responded to Trump`s claim.


EDDIE JOHNSON, SUPERINTENDENT, CHICAGO POLICE DEPARTMENT: If you have a magic bullet to stop the violence anywhere, not just in Chicago but in America, then please share it with us. We`d be glad to take that information and stop this violence.


HAYES: Now Trump`s appeals to the African-American community don`t seem to be phasing former Ku Klux Klan Grand Wizard and current Senate candidate David Duke who released a robocall linking himself explicitly to the GOP presidential nominee.

DAVID DUKE, REPUBLICAN SENATE CANDIDATE: Unless massive immigration is stopped now, we`ll be outnumbered and outvoted in our own nation. It`s happening. We`re losing our country. Look at the Super Bowl salute to the Black Panther cop killers. It`s time to stand up and vote for Donald Trump for president and vote for me, David Duke, for the U.S. Senate.

HAYES: The Trump campaign today disavowed the robocall saying Trump denounces Duke and, quote, any group or individual associated with a message of hate. Joining me now, U.S. Representative Danny Davis, Democrat, Illinois, whose district includes parts of Chicago, parts of Chicago that have seen some of the worst violence that`s been happening this year. And, Congressman, I just want to get your reaction to watching this story unfold. Obviously, the first reaction is to the horrible situation that has gone on in Chicago this year in terms of gun violence, and then watching it become this kind of political point scoring. I wonder how you feel about that.

REP. DANNY DAVIS (D), IL: Well, we`re obviously pained with the violence that has occurred in Chicago and has been continuously taking place. Of course, listening to Mr. Trump`s reaction gives me the impression that he`s actually toying with a plan with the African-American community. And any kind of appeal that he`s talking about, for African-Americans or black people to think of voting for Donald Trump would be the same as a turkey voting for an early Thanksgiving. We know the problem. We`re not looking for the problem. We`re looking for solutions. We`re looking for the creation of jobs and opportunities for people to work. We`re looking for training programs for young people who don`t have skills or the education to acquire the jobs that exist. One thing about Chicago -- and Chicagoans are very serious about politics. And the African-American community is just as serious. Mr. Trump`s talk, in the street, the boys would simply say, talk is cheap, tell us what you`re going to do. We haven`t heard anything like that from Donald Trump.

HAYES: I have to ask you, too, I mean, as someone who`s represented Chicago for years -- your reaction to the way -- it`s not just Donald Trump. It has become part of the entire conservative vocabulary on issues of violence or crime or race to just sort of casually invoke Chicago, to point Chicago, and to point to the, again, truly devastating levels of trauma and violence that exist in many Chicago neighborhoods as a kind of point scoring, as a kind of rebuttal to people who were worried about police violence or police brutality. How does it feel as someone who has worked and toiled in those communities your whole career?

DAVIS: Well, people think it`s disingenuous. I think it`s disingenuous. We know that there are problems, there`s no doubt about it. But we also know that we`ve seen resources cut. We`ve seen business and industry leave. We also have seen a large number of low-income people who are part still of the last great wave of migration -- HAYES: Yep.

DAVIS: -- that came from the rural South. So we know what is needed. It`s a matter of getting them -- putting the resources into place, creating programs for young people so that they`ve got things to do and Mr. Trump is not talking about any of that.

HAYES: There`s also this sort of finger pointing blame towards the White House, towards president Obama, towards Hillary Clinton -- although it`s a little bit of a (INAUDIBLE). This is the kind of thing Trump is saying, "Now that African-Americans are seeing what a bad job Hillary type policy and management has done to the inner cities, they want Trump." What do you think of this idea that it`s Democrats that -- that the problems that many parts of urban America face are due to Democratic leadership?

DAVIS: Well, it`s kind of a reverse psychology, and that is trying to point out certainly some of the weaknesses and flaws, as though he and whatever it is that he`s selling is an alternative. There`s an old saying in the community where I live. That is, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. The community, the people are not going to be fooled or tricked into believing that Donald Trump has any kind of programmatic ideas that`s going to change the conditions. We know that things have not been perfect on the Democrats or any other way.


DAVIS: But we keep working to try and perfect what we know needs to happen.

HAYES: All right. Representative Danny Davis of the great city of Chicago, thank you for your time. Appreciate it. Joining me now Wesley Lowrey, national reporter at the Washington Post. Lynn Sweet, national bureau chief for the Chicago Sun-Times. Wes, let me start with you as someone who`s sort of been covering these issues. I mean, I have a hard time figuring out what exactly this conversation is at the national political level. And I feel like I constantly need a decoder because it doesn`t feel like it`s about what most are ostensibly saying it`s about, if that makes sense.

WESLEY LOWREY, NATIONAL REPORTER, WASHINGTON POST: Well, it`s seemingly -- I`m with you, Chris. It`s almost never about what we pretend that it`s about. We`re not having a conversation about homicides in Chicago.

HAYES: Right.

LOWREY: Because if we were having that kind of conversation, we would be talking about homicide clearance rates, be talking about should we be having fewer officers stopping and frisking and perhaps having more officers solving homicides, right?

HAYES: Right.

LOWREY: We would be having the conversation about the mechanisms of policing. Rather what we are doing is we`re having a political conversation about people`s perceptions of safety and security. And in this context, specifically the perceptions largely of white people, right, white voters. When you go to Iowa and give a speech about violence in Chicago, you`re not appealing -- I mean, we can pretend and play the game that that`s appeal to black voters in Chicago. In reality, that is an appeal to --

HAYES: Right.

LOWREY: -- Donald Trump`s base, right? And so I think that that`s what`s fascinating about this. I think you`re right that very often we`re not having a conversation about what we say we are having a conversation about because the mechanisms of policing and crime are fascinating. And unfortunately they don`t break out very cleanly in this way. We still can`t really explain spikes in homicides that happened in the `20s. And so the idea that we`re going to be able to figure out why this year there are more homicides in Chicago or Baltimore than last year in a way that`s going to work in a political sound bite or a speech, is disingenuous to what we know in terms of the body of work on criminology.

HAYES: I have to say, Lynn, that the tweet about Dwyane Wade, I was reminded about this tweet, which I believe was after Orlando, which was Trump tweeting, "Appreciate the congrats for being right on radical Islamic terrorism. I don`t want congrats, I want toughness and vigilance. We must be smart." And just thinking, well, what kind of individual is this whose reaction to this kind of thing is self-congratulation or a political point with your name in all caps?

LYNN SWEET, BUREAU CHIEF, CHICAGO SUN-TIMES: Well, what this is is somebody who -- and this is not going to come as a surprise to anyone -- thinks about himself first and what the event means to him and his candidacy and to his advancing his goals and agenda instead of just doing the first thing that people do in the wake of a tragedy and just expressing your condolences. But to underscore what you`ve been talking about, Chris, when it comes to Chicago, if -- let`s say he has something to offer. Tell us what it is. That`s what the police superintendent said in the sound bite. You have something, tell us what it is.

HAYES: And that`s such a broadly applicable point here, Wes, your point about the complexities of, say, crime. And this is something you and I have both been spending some time thinking about, I know, and how you unravel when crime went up and why it went up and why it went down. And the fact of the matter is, the policy of this stuff is hard. It`s very hard. It`s very complicated. It`s extremely granular. It is not sound bites.

LOWREY: Exactly. It`s something that`s remarkably complicated. It`s very difficult to figure out. And it speaks to all types of big philosophical ideas, right, it speaks to our social contracts we buy into, what we want police to do. It speaks to history, right, why might certain people with lower income or less wealth be trapped in certain neighborhoods, and how might they be policed versus other places, right. And so it speaks to all of these monumental societal forces that are much larger, in fact, than who the president of the United States is, much less what --

HAYES: That`s right.

LOWREY: -- the letter next to someone`s name who`s the mayor on the mayoral ballot might be, right. And so I think that`s -- you know, these are huge issues when we`re talking about issues of race and crime that -- they`re much bigger than sound bites.

HAYES: Lynn?

SWEET: Well, let`s break this down, though, to a few maybe baby steps or bite-sized chunks. Because Chicago right now is the subject of a Justice Department pattern and practice investigation that was opened up after a 16-year-old youth was shot 16 times by a police officer. There are other examples of Chicago policing that has been very controversial.

HAYES: Right.

SWEET: And, you know, with body cams and car cams now, there`s proof that stuff goes on. But it`s also true that to make policing work, you have to have good relations and trust. So all I`m saying to Donald Trump is so let`s put aside whatever, you know, is the criticisms of you by democrats, liberals, if you -- and I want to go back to the main point. Pick something. Wes, I know you said this is a very complex thing. It is. So pick a few spots --

LOWREY: That`s right.

SWEET: -- then and say what is it I could do? Summer job program. Now what`s hard is figuring out how to solve the problem of guns coming into Chicago --


SWEET: -- where repeat offenders and gang members get guns. Because we know Chicago has tough control laws and we know the guns come in from other places, including a lot from Indiana, the home state of Trump`s running mate. So you have some ideas in how to respect the Second Amendment -- which should not be the issue here -- and keep guns out of the hands of the wrong people, tell us what it is.

HAYES: I would be remiss if I did not note that amongst the policy agendas on the Donald Trump website there is a Second Amendment section. There is no crime policy section, I would rush to point out, in the context of this decision. Wesley Lowrey --


HAYES: -- and Lynn Sweet, thank you both for your time. Appreciate it.

SWEET: OK. Thank you.

HAYES: Still to come, the FBI is investigating foreign cyber attacks on at least two state election systems. What this might mean for November ahead. But first, could Donald Trump`s long promised border wall be a virtual wall? The many still unanswered questions looming before this week`s big immigration speech right after this two-minute break.


HAYES: After recently postponing planned immigration speeches in Arizona and Colorado, Donald Trump has finally set a new date. Taking to Twitter last night, Trump wrote, I will be making a major speech on illegal immigration on Wednesday in the great state of Arizona. Big crowds looking for a larger venue. Over the last week, Trump appeared to be trying possibly to alter his immigration position, which has raised some questions about what his position actually is at the moment or if he even has one. Some think Rudy Giuliani appeared to let slip to the Washington Post over the weekend, "As you might imagine there are different opinions on this, even in his campaign. In a very thoughtful way, he`s trying to figure out what the right position is." Giuliani also appears to be a bit uncertain about what kind of wall Trump intends to build on the southern border. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER N.Y.C. MAYOR: He`s going to build a wall. It`s going to be a technological as well as a physical wall, meaning it`ll --

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: We hear 35 feet high with wall technology that could --

GUILLIANI: Yes, and with technology that can detect people five, six miles away, with technology that can detect people that can dig under the wall.


HAYES: I don`t know if we can be sure if this (INAUDIBLE) by Rudy Giuliani suggests that a wall on the southern border is impractical and is going to be virtual. But we do know that former Texas governor Rick Perry last month said the wall would have to be virtual.


RICK PERRY, FORMER TEXAS GOVERNOR: There are some that hear this is going to be 1,200 miles from Brownsville to El Paso, 30 foot high. And, listen, I know you can`t do that.


HAYES: But a Trump senior advisor today is denying this, saying, "Reports of virtual are false. Trump determined to build wall." Advisor says, "It will be an impenetrable physical barrier." Joining me now, A.J. Delgado, conservative columnist and Trump campaign surrogate. All right, A.J., let`s start with the wall because everyone`s confusing a lot of things. So am I right, if the wall, a big, physical impenetrable barrier, through the duration of the southern border, is still the plan?

A.J. DELGADO, CONSERVATIVE COLUMNIST: Absolutely. It`s never wavered.


DELGADO: It has been for the past year.

HAYES: OK. So this is my big question about the wall. A huge part of that border is the Rio Grande. So do you build --

DELGADO: Mm-hmm.

HAYES: So do you build the wall on our side of the Rio Grande and cut off access to the river, or do you build it in the actual river, or do you build it on the Mexican side somehow?

DELGADO: Chris, am I an engineer? Come on. That`s not up to me. Donald Trump, I can assure you, will find the best, most capable people to find and build the wall in exactly all those areas wherever it can be. And if there`s a way to figure out around or behind or wherever around the river, they will get it done.

HAYES: So let me ask you this, though. Because the wall is obviously, I think, in some ways it`s become the most symbolically important part of immigration policy for him. Would you agree that that`s one thing that were he to reverse on people would be really angry in his base?

DELGADO: Yes, absolutely, I feel, yes.

HAYES: Does it give you pause -- I want to play Blake Farenthold who is a Trump supporter, I should note. He`s got a district that has part of the border on it in Texas, this was our exchange about the feasibility about the physical wall. Take a listen.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you going to put a wall along that whole border with a pretty door?

REP. BLAKE FARENTHOLD (R), TX: Listen, I`m a Texan. I realize the rural areas, there`s no point in wasting the money on the fence.

HAYES: Thank you. It`s a ridiculous idea, as any Texan will tell you, right?

FARENTHOLD: But what you can do is you can secure the border with technology.

HAYES: Wait a second, though. FARENTHOLD: (INAUDIBLE).

HAYES: Please just acknowledge the fact that the Texan delegations, the Texans I`ve talked to, think of the idea of a wall as ridiculous.

FARENTHOLD: Well, you can see it from the points of --

HAYES: Correct?


HAYES: Thank you.


FERENHOLD: For the two miles of wall, you can get a predator drone.


HAYES: Now does it give you pause that Texan Republican supporters of Donald Trump like Rick Perry and Blake Farenthold think the idea is bad?

DELGADO: No, that`s one person`s opinion. I have personally spent a great deal of time with border agents, with ICE agents, and they`re all incredibly excited about the wall and 100 percent behind the idea. So to each his own. And anybody could say, I don`t think the wall is a feasible idea. Engineers disagree, ICE agents disagree, border agents disagree. So we`re still 100 percent behind it and it is completely a feasible thing that will be done. That`s one thing he has not wavered on whatsoever. All right. So let`s talk about the 11 million, right, the sort of Gordian knot at the heart of immigration reform and immigration policy. There`s been, I think, a lot of confusion about what the policy is.


HAYES: You don`t think so? So then explain it to me.

DELGADO: No. I don`t understand why there is this talk of confusion and flip flopping and pivots. There hasn`t been. His policy has been the same for the entire year. It`s build the wall, it`s deport the illegal aliens who have criminal records, it`s making sure people leave and come back in the right way, visa tracking, e-verify, end sanctuary cities. None of that has changed --

HAYES: Sure.

DELGADO: -- whatsoever. You know who is flip flopping, Chris, though -- and I don`t hear the media coming after her -- is Hillary Clinton who two years ago -- two years ago -- was saying that kids who make it over here should go back. Why has the media not asked her? That`s the flip flop.

HAYES: Right. But she was talking --

DELGADO: And I guess you can`t ask her because she doesn`t have press conferences, so --

HAYES: She was talking --

DELGADO: -- you can`t ask her. I don`t blame you. HAYES: The context of that, of course, specifically, was the migrant crisis, refugee crisis, from Central America, right? So it was about the - -

DELGADO: Even worse.

HAYES: No, I know --

DELGADO: Even worse.

HAYES: Well, believe me -- let me --

DELGADO: You`re talking about kids --

HAYES: Let me tell you --

DELGADO: -- little kids being violent.

HAYES: I find your empathy heartwarming--

DELGADO: Even worse.

HAYES: -- and would love to see it broadly applied. But here`s my question for you. When you say that the policy hasn`t changed. On the things you mentioned, you`re correct. I will stipulate that. If you look at the website, all of those things you mentioned, right, have been there from the beginning. But here`s the thing --

DELGADO: Mm-hmm.

HAYES: That still leaves millions of folks who are undocumented in the country without papers, without authorization, with no pathway for them. And that seems to me the big question that is unanswered. You can say that he hasn`t flip flopped, which I agree with you on, right. Although at times it seemed to say, yes, we have to deport them all. He said that on the record in debates, he said that to Chuck Dodd. But if that`s not the policy, then what is it?

DELGADO: He has set priorities. Of course, number one has to be deporting the criminal illegal aliens, which by the way Hillary Clinton has said that the only ones she will deport are those with violent records.

HAYES: Right.

DELGADO: That excludes people who have committed fraud or DUI`s, so he`s setting priorities. What will we do about the entire 11 million? We`re going to cross that bridge -- this is a process.


DELGADO: This is a very complex issue.

HAYES: It is.

DELGADO: Do they leave and come back? That is what he has said consistently.

HAYES: All right.

DELGADO: They`ll have to leave re-enter the lawful way. He hasn`t changed.

HAYES: That`s called touchback. We will see if there is touchback included in that in Wednesday, of course.

DELGADO: Let`s see on Wednesday.

HAYES: If they leave and try to come back, they have a five- to 20-year period of time to wait. A.J. Delgado, thanks for joining us tonight. I appreciate it.

DELGADO: Thank you, Chris. Thank you.

HAYES: All right, still to come: Tuesday election systems were reportedly infiltrated by foreign hackers. What information they accessed and which states could be the most vulnerable to future attacks, coming up.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): From the beginning, their relationship was a match made in media heaven. Every aspect of their rollercoaster romance has been splattered across the front pages of the tabloids.

TRUMP: The truth is I really love all women. I love all women. (END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: If there`s one thing the New York tabloids love, it`s a juicy scandal. And in the early `90s, Donald Trump was at the center of the tabloid universe, involved in perhaps the most public affair in America. The details of his relationship with Marla Maples, divorce from first wife Ivana sold a lot of newspapers back then. And now judging by today`s cover of the New York post, it appears Trump has ceded some of that tabloid territory. Post reporting that former Congressman Anthony Weiner, who`s married to top Hillary Clinton aide Huma Abedin, was involved in yet another sexting scandal with an unidentified woman. The tabloid publishing racy photos. In exchanges between the two, one photo the post said, involved his young son.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): But the New York Post claims Weiner was sending an inappropriate picture of himself to a woman while their young son was in his bed. Weiner told the Post he and the woman have been friends for some time and says their communications were always appropriate.


HAYES: Well, you`ll never guess who`s now weighing in on the latest spotter for the New York tabloids, the Republican presidential nominee`s five-year obsession with the man who occupies the tabloid attention he so craves ahead.



GOV. MIKE PENCE (R-IN), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: If you`re not involved as a precinct worker, an observer, a poll watcher at your local polls, you need to get involved, because that`s where elections happen, that`s where accountability happens.

I`m confident that the American people can insure the integrity of America`s elections.


HAYES: Vice-presidential candidate Mike Pence today encouraging supporters in Georgia to prevent voter fraud at the polls even though actual cases of voter fraud are extremely almost vanishingly rare.

But for all the fear mongering from the Trump campaign, there is actually a legitimate concern this year.

Yahoo`s Michael Isikoff, breaking the news today that foreign hackers penetrated election databases in at least two states this summer -- Arizona and Illinois.

Now, in Arizona, hackers planted Malware, but didn`t take any information. And in Illinois, election officials had to close the voter registration system for 10 days. Hackers managed to download personal data on up to 200,000 state voters.

Now, the FBI has issued an alert to other states warning a specific of IP address used in the Arizona and Illinois attacks. A cyber security expert stelling Michael Isikoff that one of IP addresses listed in the FBI alert has surfaced before in Russian criminal underground hacker forum.

Today`s news coming amid increasing concern about the security of America`s election apparatus, especially considering that six states and parts of four others, including large swaths of Pennsylvania, crucial swing state in this year`s race, are more vulnerable because they rely on paperless touchscreen voting, known as DREs, or direct recording electronic voting machines, for which there are no paper ballot backups.

Joining me now security technologist, Bruce Schneier. He`s a fellow at the Berkmanm-Kleincenter for internet and society at Harvard University. And Bruce, you`ve been tweeting and writing about this. And I saw the headline and thought to myself, how freaked out should I be about this? Because the headline seems somewhat unnerving. What`s the answer?

BRUCE SCHNEIER, BERKMANN-KLEIN CENTER FOR INTERNET & SOCIETY: So this I don`t think is that big a deal from an election security perspective. Certainly the personal information is a problem, but these are not swing states. These are likely criminals going after information for identity theft, which is a bad thing, but it`s not a conventional bad thing, it`s not stealing the election bad.

That`s certainly a worry, but that`s not a worry in this headline.

HAYES: So, that`s a sort of important distinction here, right. So, we have people who look sort of fishing for information that can maybe be paired with other information for identity theft. What it has, though, sort of alerted me to is just the thought of how much election data is now online, on one hand, and how kind of penetrable, for lack of a better word, most electronic systems seem to be in the era of say the DNC hack, to name just one example.

SCHNEIER: Well, that`s the problem. These computers are hackable. And there are three places we should worry -- there`s the election databases where if you purge people off rolls, they can`t vote, there`s confusion, so the security there, which is the database is penetrated in those two states, there are the machines, you mentioned the paperless ballots, the computers that don`t have an audit trail, they`re a problem and there`s also the tabulation. Those machines are also computers and also subject to attack.

So, those are the three places where we have to have extra security and where we should worry.

HAYES: Are you confident that security protocols protecting those kinds of sensitive databases are up to snuff?

SCHNEIER: You know, they`re not. And this is a worry. And it`s a worry for a couple of reasons. I mean, we want the elections to be fair, but really elections not only have to pick the winner, they have to convince the loser.

I mean, the importance of a transition of power is that the loser believes he lost fairly. If someone hacks the election and we don`t know we have a problem. This hasn`t happened nationally, we have had computer problems at local elections where we know the computers aren`t correct. We don`t know if it`s enemy action, it`s probably a mistake, but these machines are causing problems already.

HAYES: I have to say that trend of -- I mean, obviously there`s been criminal hacking enterprises for a while and you get worried -- I think your credit card might get stolen, but the idea of non-criminal, rather sort of ideologically motivated, or sort of foreign policy motivated hackers making mischief really seems like a whole new terrifying frontier in all of this.

SCHNEIER: Yeah, it`s not new, hacking for ideology is as old as hacking from the `80s and `70s. It is moving up the food chain. You know, we`re now seeing nation states do it -- North Korea attacks Sony, China attacks OPM, Russia attacks the DNC. So we are seeing countries playing here.

I mean, certainly countries are hacking each other. The difference in a lot of these is they`re getting caught. They`re exposing information. So -- but, yes, I mean, we are seeing a lot more of this play at the nation state level.

HAYES: I should note that the U.S. also has been engaged in this kind of thing, and we released a piece of sort of viral bug that destroyed part of the nuclear facilities of Iran. So, the capacity...

SCHNEIER: And certainly, interfering in foreign elections is something that we`ve done for decades.

HAYES: Bruce Schneier, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

Coming up, Governor Paul LePage defends himself against charges of racism by making the case for racial profiling. We`ll play you his words ahead.

But first, it`s tonight`s Thing One, Thing Two right after this break.


HAYES: Thing One tonight, Donald Trump issued a challenge to Hillary Clinton Sunday afternoon tweeting this afternoon tweeting I think that both candidates, Crooked Hillary and myself, should release detailed medical records. I have no problem in doing so. Hillary?

Now, Trump could have just gone ahead released his own detailed medical records if he has no problem doing so just as, for instance, the Clinton released her latest tax return at the same time as they called on Trump to release his.

Last night, the Clinton camp dismissed Trump`s challenge saying they will not be releasing any more records beyond the medical letter they already issued. And posting 13 concerns they have with the medical note released by Trump`s campaign. One of those concerns is the fact that the website listed by Trump`s doctor, which you can see here at takes you to this page, which sells the the original annoying happy birthday teddy bear. Why does only document released by the Trump camppaign on his medical health link to teddy bears singing happy birthday? That`s thing two in 60 seconds.



HAROLD BORNSTEIN, DONALD TRUMP`S DOCTOR: I get rushed and I get anxious when I get rushed. So, I try to get four or five done as fast as possible so that they would be happy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dr. Harold Bornstein who says he examine`s Trump every May remembering that December day when a black car from the Trump team waited outside his Park Avenue office.

BORNSTEIN: ...sat right at this desk and write that letter while a driver waited for it.


HAYES: That was part of NBC`s exclusive interview with Donald Trump`s doctor as the Clinton campaign rebuffed Donald Trump`s challenge to release additional medical records yesterday. they posted a series of concerns about the medical note written by that doctor.

For instance, while the Clinton camp released a medical letter that was written by her physician last year, it included specifics like Clinton`s family medical history, medications she`s currently taking, her diet, a detailed breakdown of her cholesterol levels.

Trump`s made claims like laboratory test results were astonishingly excellent to which the Clinton camp notes isn`t a real medical description. And why would a doctor ever be astonished by good test results.

Trump`s letter said, Mr. Trump has had a recent complete medical examination that showed only positive results, to which the Clinton camp responded positive test results might sound good, but as all doctors and patients should know, they indicate you have the condition you were tested for.

But perhaps the most bizarre concern noted by Team Clinton is that the website listed under the doctor`s name does not exist. And instead redirects you to That sells a bear that sings happy birthday for three straight hours for the low, low price of just $19.99.


HAYES: Maine Governor Paul LePage is trying to make the case that he is not racist by claiming that people of color are the enemy. On Friday, the governor apologized amid outrage over a profane and threatening voicemail he left for a state representative Drew Gattine after he heard from a local report that Gattine had called him a racist. Gattine later said that was not the case. Then in a press conference LePage clarified his apology was meant only for the state of Maine and not Gattine himself.

But after continued questioning about his racial charged statements in the past, LePage said this.


PAUL LEPAGE, GOVERNOR OF MAINE: A bad guy is a bad guy, I don`t care what color it is, when you go to war, if you know the enemy, the enemy dresses in red and you dress in blue, you shoot at red, you shoot at the enemy. You try to identify the enemy. The enemy right now, the overwhelming majority of people coming in are people of color, are people of Hispanic origin. I can`t help that.


HAYES: Joining me now the recipient of that original voicemail, Representative Drew Gattine, who has called for Governor LePage`s resignation.

Representative, what is going on up there with your governor?

DREW GATTINE, STATE REPRESENTATIVE, MAINE: Well, that`s a great question. We ask ourselves that question every day, Chris.

This has been going on for six years with Governor LePage, as I`m sure you know, this is just one in a long list of controversies. But the problem is, they just tend to keep getting worse and worse and worse, and governor`s behavior just becomes more erratic and more bizarre and really is calling into question now whether he`s really fit and capable of continuing to serve as governor.

As these incidents occur, it becomes pretty clear to a lot of us we have -- you know, the problems that Maine needs to fix with respect to the heroin crisis and other issues are very serious. And it`s really called into question whether he`s actually able to lead and help us solve those problems.

HAYES: Are there discussions among Republicans along those lines. I know you`ve called for his resignation in the past, others have as well. They`ve called for censure. They`ve called for other things. But are there folks on the other side of the aisle who feel that way?

GATTINE: Well, it appears that maybe there are. There are discussions I think going on right now as we speak over the last couple of days, that`s what feels very different about the incident and the events of the last few days. More and more people, Republicans on the other side of the aisle, faith-based people, the faith-based community in Maine, people who are professional therapists who are observing the governor`s behavior, people are really looking at the behavior of this governor and becoming very, very concerned that this behavior has just gotten to the point where something is going on here and this governor really should not continue to be the governor of Maine.

HAYES: The context here is that the state does have an intense opioid problem. And it seems to me the governor has decided the fault for that lies with essentially black and Latino people from outside Maine. Is that basically the story he`s telling Mainers?

GATTINE: Right. I think that`s the problem. We have very, very serious problem here. We had a record-setting 2015 in terms of heroin deaths and we`re on record to have an even worse year in 2016.

And there are a lot of parts to the solution -- prevention, education, obviously the law enforcement piece is important.

HAYES: Looks like we lost Representative Gattine from that satellite feed there. Thank you, sir, for your time -- in absentia.

Up next, Clinton aid Huma Abedin announces her separation from Antyony Weiner following his latest scandal, and Donald Trump is quick to pin it to the Clinton campaign. That story after this break.


HAYES: Today, amid the latest sexting scandal involving her husband, former congressman Anthony Weiner, Hillary Clinton`s top aid Huma Abedin announced their separation.

Abedin made her announcement after the New York Post reported gleefully, Weiner and an unidentified woman exchanged suggestive messages and photos last year, including one photo that showed Weiner and Abedin`s young son apparently asleep next to Anthony Weiner.

Abedin issuing a statement that reads in part, "Anthony and I remain devoted doing what is best for our son, who is the light of our life. During this difficult time I ask for your respect for our privacy."

Naturally, Donald Trump took that as his cue to issue his own statement on the matter, quote, "Huma is making a very wise decision. I know Anthony Weiner well and she will be far better off without him. I only worry for the country in that Hillary Clinton was careless and negligent in allowing Weiner to have such close proximity to highly classified information. Who knows what he learned and who he told. It`s just another example of Hillary Clinton`s bad judgment. It is possible our country and its security have been greatly compromised by this."

There is no evidence that that`s true, of course, at all. It should be noted that Weiner has no role in the Clinton campaign. But since Trump is questioning people`s judgment, perhaps he should examine the record of the man now charged with running his campaign, the man hand-picked by Trump himself. A number judgment of the man running his campaign hand-picked by himself. A number of headlines involving Trump campaign CEO Steve Bannon had surfaced over the past few days, including reports that domestic violence charges were filed against Bannon 20 years ago following an altercation with his then wife. Bannon pleaded not guilty. Case was dismissed after prosecutors say they could not find his wife to testify.

According to other court documents, Bannon`s ex-wife also alleges Bannon made anti-Semitic remarks about a private school the couple she was thinking of sending their daughters too. Bannon objected to the school because he, quote -- and I`m quoting here, didn`t want the girls going to school with Jews.

Regarding the domestic spokesperson points out the charges, a spokesperson for Bannon points out to NBC News, the charges were dropped and Bannon and his ex-wife have a, quote, great relationship.

That spokesperson also says Bannon, quote, never expected anything like that about the private school with too many Jews.

Joining me now, Michelle Goldberg, columnist for Slate, MSNBC contributor; Josh Barro, senior editor for Business Insider.

I don`t -- I mean, I find -- Donald Trump has an obsession with Anthony Weiner, which I find so perfect and revealing. Hunter Walker had a great piece in Yahoo just like going all the way back to five years ago to like how obsessed Donald Trump is with Anthony Weiner.

I do think part of it is if you grew up in New York in the 90s like the role that Weiner has was weirdly was kind of Donald Trump`s role in the 1990s. Like, he was the tabloid fodder.

JOSH BARRO, BUSINESS INSIDER: Donald Trump was a campaign donor to Anthony Weiner. Like they had this ongoing relationship.

I was actually struck how his analysis of the -- that this was a good idea for her to separate, it was so similar to all his tweets about Robert Pattinson and Kristen Stewart from Twilight.

HAYES: Which he was also obsessed with for a very long period of time.

BARRO: Yeah, so this is not new to Donald Trump and politics. He`s always been way up in everybody`s business for any reason and no reason. So, I don`t think it`s even that odd for him to be doing color commentary on the separation of an aide to his opponent.

HAYES: I have to say -- what were you going to say?

MICHELLE GOLDBERG, SLATE: I have to say that tha part -- I mean, yes, he`s kind of been obsessed with people`s romantic couplings and I`m sure has given a lot more thought to Huma Abedin and Anthony Weiner than he has to like his immigration policy.

HAYES: Quite clearly.

GOLDBERG: He has like deep thoughts on this issue. But then he takes it a step further and projects. And this is sort of always his MO to project onto his opponents whatever is going on with them and he talks about how this is some kind of security threat because there`s a sex scandal involving Hillary`s aide`s husband at a time when there is enormous scandals kind of roiling around everybody in Trump`s orbit.

HAYES: Including his ex-fired -- his recently fired campaign manager who is being investigated for possibly essentially being an unregistered foreign agent of a foreign government...

BARRO: Of a pro-Russian foreign political...

HAYES: Right, yes.

GOLDBERG: Roger Ailes advising him who is alleged to have been involved in a multi-decade campaign of sadomasichistic torture against one of his employees. I mean, the kind of...

HAYES: Was alleged on the record by said victim, we should point out, not anonymously. Like on the record, and who was given a severance -- a settlement payment.

GOLDBERG: And kind of is threatening herself financially to go public with this and who -- obviously the charges against Ailes are credible enough that he has been forced to step down from Fox not from the Trump campaign.

And so...

HAYES: And is now just advising him -- and it`s not a big -- it`s not some big controversial thign.

GOLDBERG: Right. I mean, there`s such a -- I mean, I`ve always kind of felt a little bit bad for Anthony Weiner even though he has, you know, obviously brought this stuff on himself, but just there`s such -- the public shaming of Anthony Weiner is so disproportionate to his crimes when compared...

HAYES: When compared to other -- yes.

GOLDBERG: ...all of the other kind of terrible men in public life.

HAYES: That I agree with, yes.

BARRO: This story is not important. It`s never been that important even when he was a member of congress. He wasn`t that important a political figure.

People focus on it because it`s interesting. The story has good visuals, Anthony Weiner is a compelling character you can`t look away from like a car wreck. And so people have been talking about the, you know, Anthony has been -- is a political liability to Hillary Clinton, and I suppose very much on the margin that`s true. But is anybody going to change their vote based on this? I think the answer to that is no.

GOLDBERG: I think it`s that people want an excuse to talk about it.

HAYES: That`s right. Yeah, people will find -- that`s right -- people will find peg to hang this discussion on that`s like punitively about news because I think people are at a level of almost like Shakespearean human drama just sort of compelled by -- they cannot look away from the manifest compulsion and self-destruction that is evident.

GOLDBERG: In a way it`s kind of like, right, I mean, it`s tragic in the classical sense, you know, kind of a man driven to destroy himself by his own kind of inherent nature.

HAYES: Fatal flaw. That`s right.

GOLDBERG: But, the other thing is that you have -- you have -- he`s made a documentary about himself.

HAYES: He didn`t make it, he allowed filmmakers to make it.

GOLDBERG: It`s understandable why people -- I wouldn`t begrudge anybody their interest in this human drama.

But the journalists who are covering him and prying into him, there`s no -- I mean, I know it`s The New York Post, but there`s still no reason why this photograph should be on the cover of The New York Post. And the justification is, well, think of the children, think of his son who he has put.

And so, because of that, you`re going to put his son on the cover of the New York Post in this humiliating photograph. I mean, it`s so transparently prurient.

HAYES: Yes. The public interest from the beginning, as Josh said, was always fairly marginal and has even gotten only more marginal as time has gone on.

BARRO: Yeah.

And I think it meets the standard for a cover of a New York Post.


HAYES: What also has gone on the New York Post is two random vaguely Middle Eastern looking kids accused of being the Boston bombers who were wrongly identified.

BARRO: This cover was better than that one.

HAYES: Yes, exactly. That`s my malign about the New York Post is as long as they`re not misidentifying people as having committed murder then that clears the low bar they set for themselves.

BARRO: No. I mean, again, I think it is -- the story is interesting, we can`t tell people that they shouldn`t pay attention to it because it`s interesting. I do think the one very thin read on why this matters even a little, is that the retention of Huma Abedin over all this time has been a little odd in that she was allowed to be on these three payrolls at once. She was still at the State Department and then she became a paid employee of Tenao Strategy, which was this company founded by Doug Band basically monetizing Clinton world.

So, she`s been -- there`s been loyalty to Huma that I think is sometimes not understandable. But it`s not really about Anthony.

HAYES: Yes. And Huma is at the center, always, in that world.

Michelle Goldberg and Josh Barro, thank you very much. That is "ALL IN" for this evening. We will be back here live at 11:00 p.m. Eastern. You don`t want to miss that.