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All In with Chris Hayes, Transcript 8/15/2016

Guests: Steve Cortes, Jeremy Bash, Mitch Stewart, Charlie Sykes, Joan Walsh

Show: ALL IN with CHRIS HAYES Date: August 15, 2016 Guest: Steve Cortes, Jeremy Bash, Mitch Stewart, Charlie Sykes, Joan Walsh


ARI MELBER, MSNBC HOST (voice-over): Tonight on ALL IN --

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: We will be tough and we will be even extreme.

MELBER: Donald Trump unveils his loyalty test.

TRUMP: I call it extreme vetting. I call it extreme, extreme vetting.

MELBER: The Republican nominee announces his new plan to combat terror as his campaign rewrites history.

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER NYC MAYOR: Before Obama came along, we didn`t have any successful radical Islamic terrorist attack in the United States.

MELBER: Plus, inside the stunning new projection in the NBC battleground map.

Then --

JOSEPH BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This man is totally thoroughly unqualified to be president of the United States of America.

MELBER: Biden time in Pennsylvania, as Trump`s call for poll watchers sparks a legal outcry.

TRUMP: The only way we can lose, in my opinion, I really mean this, Pennsylvania, is if cheating goes on.

MELBER: All that and why Trump`s attack on the media may be different than any other candidate when ALL IN starts now.

TRUMP: I`m not running against Crooked Hillary, I`m running against the crooked media.


MELBER: Good evening from New York. I`m Ari Melber, in for Chris Hayes.

Donald Trump put immigration at the center of his message when launching his presidential campaign, slamming immigrants and calling for a border wall. Well, he was back at it today, giving another major address on immigration, and proposing new somewhat vague ways to keep America safe, a screening test based on what people believe.


TRUMP: We should only admit into this country those who share our values and respect our people. In the Cold War, we had an ideological screening test. The time is overdue to develop a new screening test for the threats we face today. I call it extreme vetting. I call it extreme, extreme vetting.


MELBER: Trump did not define how this would work but the speech made it sound like a broad net, a loyalty test to stop immigrants who don`t fit in with American values as defined by a future Trump administration.


TRUMP: In addition to screening out all members of the sympathizers of terrorist groups, we must also screen out any who have hostile attitudes toward our country or its principles or who believe that Sharia law should supplant American law.

Only those we expect to flourish in our country and to embrace a tolerant American society should be issued visas.


MELBER: Would that tolerant American society still be open to all religions?

Well, Trump didn`t say, leaving open the prospect he would still enforce the Muslim ban he proposed last year, and a proposal that is still up on his website today. He did call limited immigration from certain dangerous countries but refused to actually name any of them, instead leaving that work until after the election.


TRUMP: To put these new procedures in place we will have to temporarily suspend immigration from some of the most dangerous and volatile regions of the world that have a history of exporting terrorism.

As soon as I take office, I will ask the State Department and the Department of Homeland Security to identify a list of regions where adequate screening cannot take place. We will stop processing visas from those areas until such time as it is safe to resume based on new circumstances or new procedures.


MELBER: As matter of policy, the State Department already has a list of state sponsor offers terrorism, like Syria, Sudan and Iran, and the U.S. already does use tighter vetting for many areas deemed higher threats.

So, part of what Trump called for is already happening and the part that isn`t, like creating loyalty tests, isn`t happening, many people say, for a reason.

I`m joined now by Steve Cortes, a businessman and surrogate for the Trump campaign.

Thanks for being here. Where would this ideological test be done? Would it be administered at the border?

STEVE CORTES, SURROGATE FOR THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN: You know, Ari, listen, an ideological test heading is the wrong term. What we`re saying is this that -- and I think Mr. Trump is incredibly prescient in this regard. America has never been a nation in terms of -- we`re not a race or religion or a creed, we`re an idea. If you don`t buy the idea, you don`t belong here.

Now, thankfully, almost all immigrants and my father was an immigrant and almost all -- by the way, he is a son of an immigrant, and a husband of an immigrant.


MELBER: Where would it be? I want to start with how it works. We heard him, I just played Donald Trump explaining what you`re talking about, the idea behind it. Where would it be done? Would it be screened at the border?

CORTES: No. Beyond the border, it would be the application process. And it would be -- do you believe in the American Constitution? Do you believe in the Bill of Rights? Do you believe intolerance?

MELBER: So, it will be done -- in your view, it would be done in advance at State Department consular office level all throughout the world?

CORTES: That is correct, yes.

MELBER: And who would it be done on? Would it be done on all entrants to the United States?

CORTES: I think it would be done on all entrants. But here`s the point too --

MELBER: To be clear, you think it should be done on all entrants in the United States?

CORTES: Look, if you don`t believe in the American idea, you don`t belong here. There is no right to immigrate to the United States. I love immigrants. I`m a son of an immigrant. We want immigration. It`s wonderful for American. But it is not owed to anyone to immigrate to this country. We have a right as people to decide --


CORTES: -- who immigrates here and do you believe in our Constitution. If you don`t, if you believe in Sharia law --

MELBER: Right, that`s concept. That`s why we played Donald Trump explaining the concept. We`re looking at the policy. Do you know how many entrants there were, how many total entries there were to the U.S. last year?

CORTES: I don`t. It`s in the millions, certainly?

MELBER: It is in the millions. Do you have any idea? Because you`re calling now for all of them, that`s what Donald Trump alluded to today. Do you know, is it 10 million, is it 20 million, is it 50 million? Do you have any idea?

CORTES: I don`t know if you`re trying to quiz me. Twenty million, I would guess?

MELBER: According to U.S. Customs last year, it was 189 total entries in the United States.

CORTES: I mean immigrants, not entries in terms of visas and visitors. Don`t be unfair and ask me a question. I`m talking about actual people here to stay.

MELBER: No, this is important. You`re talking only long-term immigrants?

CORTES: Yes, yes. I`m talking about long term, people who want to become Americans. This is the beauty of America. If you believe in the American idea, you`re an American. So, there is no -- you can be a Muslim, you can be black, you can be brown, you can be yellow, you can be female, gay, you can be anything and believe in our Bill of Rights and believe in the Constitution and become an American. What you cannot do and what you should not do is you believe in Sharia law --

MELBER: Do you believe what you`re saying and Donald Trump alluded to today, he kept talking about the terror attacks, long-term immigration is, of course, the smallest piece of people coming out of country. The threat though when you talk about what happened in California, in San Bernardino or 9/11, those people were here in 9/11 on temporary visas. Now, that program has already been overhauled.

But is this a security plan if it will not touch people who are just here temporarily most likely to pose a security threat?

CORTES: I`m glad you asked that point. It`s not just temporary. You`re looking at the Boston bombers, they were not here temporary. They granted permanent asylum.

And here`s the point, Ari, is that Americans can`t be going to a Christmas party in San Bernardino or going to a dance in Orlando or going to watch a marathon in Boston and be slaughtered simply because we have careless policies about who we want to let in and because political correctness, political correctness is not just dumb, it can be deadly. In the case of our immigration policies, it has been deadly.

Now, does it make sense to say if you`re coming from Syria or Afghanistan, that we`re going to vet you in a different way than if you`re coming from Canada. That`s a sensible. That`s very sensible policy.

MELBER: Steve, the United States already does that. You mentioned you didn`t know the total numbers, fine. The United States has a very tight vetting process for areas that are deemed a threat. State sponsors of terror, you can`t even get a temporary visa.

Part of what Donald Trump does seems to operate in a vacuum of not acknowledging the way the current vetting works. And the other part seems to be proposing a kind of a thought test that only runs contrary to a lot of what Americans believe, you talk about American tradition, but also seems odd.

So, let me put it to you like this. If this is for security, if this is for what kind of country we want, what other example is there quizzing people on their beliefs on an honor system would catch criminals. Don`t criminals usually habitually lie to authorities? What other examples there where that has increased security in American history?

CORTES: Look, sure. You make a fair point. If we were to ask a terrorist if they believe in the Constitution, he may very well say, of course they do, I believe in the Constitution, but I`m still coming to cause trouble. I would concede you that point.

But this is the bigger point I think, is that if you`re coming from parts of the globe which are right now beset with terrorism, if you`re coming from Syria, if you`re coming from Afghanistan, we are going to vet you in a far stronger way than if you`re coming from England. I think that`s just sensible.

I love immigration, I love immigrants, what it does for this country, Donald Trump does as well. But we have to -- security has to come first. And no immigrant is due, there`s no constitutional right for any immigrant to come to the United States.

We have a right to choose whom we want to admit and don`t want to admit and we need to be sensible about it. Also, even a bigger point than that I would stipulate, is that not even just necessarily, because you make a good point, like where do we start? Is it at the border?

The point is the world is spinning out of control largely because of our failed policy in the Middle East. We have destabilized the Middle East and because of that, we`re seeing terrible ramifications in Europe and America and we need to change course. What we`re doing is not working. Donald Trump offers a very different vision.

MELBER: Businessman and Trump surrogate, Steve Cortes, thank you for your time.

Now, we turn to MSNBC political analyst and former RNC analyst, Michael Steele, and Jeremy Bash, the former chief of staff of both the CIA and Department of Defense under Leon Panetta, and a supporter of Hillary Clinton.

Good evening to both of you.

Jeremy, your thoughts on what we just heard. And is it problematic that in a speech today, Donald Trump and to some degree, some of his policy advisers don`t necessarily seem to have a handle on the fact there is tighter vetting for dangerous regions.

JEREMY BASH, HILLARY CLINTON SUPPORTER: Well, I think it was fascinating that Trump`s spokesperson reference to the Orlando shooter as somebody whose immigrant visa would be stopped by this extreme vetting. Omar Mateen was born in November of 1996 in New Hyde Park, New York. He was born in the United States. This has nothing to do with immigration.

And so, what it clearly reveals is that the Trump policy on immigration is really a thinly guise anti-Muslim ban, in which Trump would propose basically giving a loyalty test or a religious test to all people inside the United States.

And you have to go back to World War II during the round up and interment of Japanese Americans and Italian Americans to see some policy that is so racist, so un-American, so flatly against the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments of the Constitution affords all Americans equal protection and due process of law.

MELBER: Strong words, Jeremy, and I know you have a lot of experience in this area.

Mr. Chairman, take a listen to Donald Trump talking about the way he views sort of the profiling of this, because he spoke very broadly the immigrants and children of immigrants here today. Take a listen.


TRUMP: The common thread linking the major Islamic terrorist attacks that have recently occurred on our soil, 9/11, the Fort Hood shooting, the Boston bombing, the San Bernardino attack, the Orlando attack, is that they have involved immigrants or the children of immigrants.


MELBER: That`s true. But we can put up on the screen the fact whether that is meaningful statistic, because one out of four Americans fit that category first or second generation immigrants and Pew projects by 2015, over 1 out of 3.

As we all know, a nation of immigrants, Michael, is part of the country, is that really in your view a good place to begin with what he`s talking about today, which is some sort of profiling or vetting.

MICHAEL STEELE, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: I don`t know if it`s a good place to begin for the campaign. I mean, there`s so much not complex about what Donald Trump says. It`s barebones. It appeals to a certain mindset and set of fears that exist out there.

I think going back to what Mr. Cortes was saying, that a lot of the emphasis on this part of Trump`s "foreign policy", if you will, using air quotes around that, is focused on the attitude a lot of Americans seem to have or been protecting us from -- in other words, they`re not sharing what they feel about a lot of these issues. And Trump somehow thinks that`s the wedge, that`s the point of the conversation, the point of the spear he wants to focus on.

You know, this whole idea of immigrants and who they are and how they got here, as was just mentioned, is a murky one, because when you start pointing those fingers, you really don`t know the back story. You know, you`re talking about someone born here. Their parents may have immigrated, but they were born here, their actions are not necessarily predicated by the fact that their parents are immigrants.

So, this becomes a very dangerous slope in my view, Ari, and you`ve got to be careful in laying out this policy that you don`t get caught up in this net of American citizens and immigrants who come here legally and rightfully and do it the right way.

MELBER: Yes. I mean, Jeremy, I know there`s plenty under your time at the CIA that you can`t talk about under your obligations. But broadly on policy, in terms of what you can talk about, does the CIA do threat assessments like that? Do they just look at -- are you the son of an immigrant and stop there or is there something more to this when it`s actually about security?

BASH: Well, in the intelligence community and this effort is really led by the National Counterterrorism Center in northern Virginia, they do significant screening of any terrorist suspects. That`s why we have a no fly list. That`s why we a variety of watchlists.

But the idea that the analysis or the inquiry list would stop at are you an immigrant, or are you a kid of an immigrant, that`s not only inconsistent with our Constitution, it`s very bad counter-terrorism strategy. It really would not answer any significant question.

And as we noted earlier, the 9/11 hijackers were here on visas and they extended and overstayed their visas. The idea do you love America, or as your previous speaker said, do you believe in America, that would not have stopped 9/11. And I just think that it`s critically important for people to understand that Donald Trump`s policy as he laid out today is not a counterterrorism policy. It`s a racist anti-immigrant policy that will not make us safer and, in fact, actually could make the fight against terrorist organizations much more complicated.

MELBER: And, Michael, briefly, we`re out of time. But at some point here, does Trump have to simply withdraw the Muslim ban because he`s trying to have it both ways?

STEELE: Well, he`s dialed that back considerably where it was, there`s no doubt about that. He doesn`t talk about it directly the way he has in the past. And I think he understands the blowback on that by guys not just like by Jeremy and others and by his own supporters is a lot greater than he thought it would be.

MELBER: Michael Steele and Jeremy Bash, thank you both for joining me tonight. I appreciate it.

Now, coming up, Joe Biden gave Hillary Clinton a tour of his boyhood home in Scranton, Pennsylvania, today. We`ll show the Democratic side there and his speech laying into Trump, all of that ahead.

But, first also, stunning new NBC News battleground map. It is out. It shows Clinton ahead in enough states to win the election even if she lost every toss-up state. The man who ran President Obama`s winning battleground states strategy will be here to break it down. That is next.


MELBER: NBC News is out with a brand new background map with some good news for Hillary Clinton.

If the election were held today, she would easily win and here`s the breakdown, you know it takes 270 electoral votes to win. Clinton on pace to win 288 electoral votes based on those precise new state polls, those are the ones that matter. You see her path to victory here on those dark blue states. Those are very likely to back her, plus the light blue which now lean Democratic.

As for Trump, we`ll show this to you. He`s currently looking at only 174 electoral votes between the likely Republican states there in the dark red, the top and Deep South, as well as the light red.

Now, here is the key, this, you can remember for every political argument you get between now and November, no matter who you support. We`re talking just numbers. If they hold up, that means even if Donald Trump were to win all the toss-ups, these are the yellow states, you`re looking at, with big on ones like Ohio and Florida, if he wins those yellow toss-ups, he would still lose to Clinton under these projections.

Now, we don`t know what happens next. We do know this is not the usual lead for a Democrat in August.

Let me show you, the ALL IN team here looked at this back to 2012, it was before the convention, Mitt Romney was much closer to President Obama, down about 46 electoral votes compared to Trump today who is losing by 141 electoral votes, with the toss-up states to turn to there.

Joining me now is Mitch Stewart. He was battleground states director for President Obama`s 2012 campaign.

So, thanks for being here. Continue the flash back with us. You guys were not as comfortable according to projections at this point last time.

MITCH STEWART, BATTLEGROUND STATES DIRECTOR, 2012 OBAMA CAMPAIGN: Yes, what`s really interesting here is both the new floor for Secretary Clinton is certainly much higher than we had four years ago. But the new floor for Republicans is much lower than it was four years ago and it`s primarily because of Georgia and what we call the 2008 Obama-ha, which is the second congressional district in Nebraska, which goes by proportionality opposed to winner take all.

And so, what you`re seeing here is a trend that`s really, really dangerous for Republicans not only at the presidential level but for the U.S. Senate. A number of those background states now where Secretary Clinton has a double digit lead, there is a very hotly contested Senate race below that and that drag is really going to hurt Republicans and frankly benefit Democratic senators and candidates.

MELBER: While you`re speaking, we have the big map up and you can see in the multi-colored map exactly what you`re talking about. There are a bunch of blue and light blue and even yellow states where there are going to be Senate problems for Republicans if these numbers continue.

We want to show again, though, just the yellow map, the simple tossup math, because this really cuts against what Donald Trump`s message has been. When you look at these states here, what you`re basically saying, even if he wins Florida and Ohio under these projections, he still loses. Contrast that to what you guys were doing, because those were key states you felt you needed to win at one point.

STEWART: Yes, and, you know, the advantage Trump may have had early on was the advantage with white working class voters. And the key for him or the needle he needed to thread was to increase support levels with that specific cohort without damaging his standing with suburban and urban voters.

If he would have done that, you would have seen states like Michigan and Ohio and Pennsylvania be much closer than they are now. In fact, the three most important states for Democrats or for Secretary Clinton are Michigan and Pennsylvania and Virginia, all of which right now have double digit leads for her. Michigan and Pennsylvania set the table for us that we have this, you know, 40-50 electoral lead over Republicans and state like Virginia and Colorado, which historically have been very close, right now, massive, massive leads for Clinton, almost insurmountable for Trump to make up.

MELBER: Yes, you mentioned that. I mean, one of the things that Obama did well people said wouldn`t necessarily translate to other Democrats was to actually build a big coalition of young voters and minority voters, of college educated voters, working into Latinos and white women, particularly single young women. Look at the young voters out new for Clinton versus Trump, just a walloping lead of voters under 35.

But does she have the ability to turn them out particularly, as you know, we`re here just reporting the map and the facts, we`re not taking a side. But you know it does sometimes make people less likely to turn out if the message they here for several months is, Trump is losing by 10 points.

How does Hillary Clinton potentially get young people out?

STEWART: Well, not only that, Ari, but the fact that Trump is talking about this being a, quote/unquote, "rigged election", which is total malarkey, if I can quote the vice president. That also actually depresses turnout. And that`s something that probably the Trump campaign needs to figure out sooner rather than later.

But, you know, the thing we have going for us is two-fold, actually three fold. We have Secretary Clinton who has the message working for younger voters. You had Donald Trump which as some message that is disqualifying him with a whole generation, literally a whole generation of Americans and, thirdly, you have a whole bunch of surrogates out there that are wildly popular not only with the American people but specifically with millennials, and that`s President Obama, Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, and just a whole host of, you now, rosters of people that can go out and articulate Secretary Clinton`s message in a way that nobody is willing to do for Donald Trump.

MELBER: Mitch Stewart, I know they used to call you "the map," no, I made that up.

But that battleground map expert, you were the perfect for us to talk about this thanks for your time tonight.

STEWART: Thanks.

MELBER: All right. Coming up, Donald Trump is gone from talking all about primary polls that showed him in the lead, to now why he might lose a general election and as Mitch was just mentioning, why it might be rigged. Well, some experts are saying that kind of talk, the way he`s doing it could actually encourage potentially illegal voter intimidation. We`ll explain.



BIDEN: She understands what it will mean -- and I really mean this -- it`s more than about her. She understands what it means for these beautiful young girls, I`m being serious now, these three beautiful young girls I`m looking at now, what it will mean to them when it`s President Hillary Rodham Clinton.


It will change their lives.


MELBER: Little improve there in his hometown of Scranton, Pennsylvania. Vice President Joe Biden, that was his first appearance with Hillary Clinton on the campaign trail and he drew a sharp contrast between her and her opponent.


BIDEN: No major party nominee in the history of the United States of America has -- don`t cheer, be quiet, just listen -- has known less or been less prepared to deal with our national security than Donald Trump. What absolutely amazes me, what amazes me he doesn`t seem to want to learn it.

My son, Beau, served for a year and came back and came back a highly decorated soldier. I must tell you, I must tell you, had Donald Trump been president, I would have thrown my body in front of him. No, I really mean it, to keep him from going if the judgment was based on Trump`s decision.


MELBER: That rally, of course, in Pennsylvania.

No Republican candidate has won a presidential campaign there since 1988. Now, right now, Clinton ahead by 11 points. That isn`t stopping Donald Trump, though, from making a play. In fact, he`s alleging the only way he would lose is if he is cheated out of it. Now, he says he wants law enforcement to help him.

Much more on that straight ahead.



TRUMP: The only way we can lose, in my opinion -- I really mean this, Pennsylvania, is if cheating goes on. And that`s the way we can lose the state.

And we have to call up law enforcement. And we have to have the sheriffs and the police chiefs and everybody watching.


MELBER: Donald Trump there making a few baseless claims about voter fraud on Friday night. He was vaguely predicting that if he loses Pennsylvania it would only be because of cheating and then he called on supporters to get involved.


TRUMP: I hope you people can sort of not just vote on the 8th, go around and look and watch other polling places and make sure that it`s 100 percent fine.


MELBER: And that isn`t just ad-libbing. The campaign`s website encourages people to be volunteer to be a Trump election observer, in order to, quote, help me stop Crooked Hillary from rigging this election! End quote.

Now, let`s be clear, there is nothing wrong with people volunteering for elections. They can do political work for a partisan candidate, or they can do civic work to support a fair and non-partisan election process.

There is something wrong with campaigns trying to interfere with the nonpartisan peace, the administration of our elections. And this is, of course, not a new issue. In fact, the Republican National Committee has already got itself into legal hot water back in the 1980s trying to use ballot security measures to advance partisan candidate agendas. That is a no-no.

A ourt ordered the RNC to cut it out and that judicial order is actually still active today. It bars RNC or its agents from poll watching or ballot oversight that actually operates to deter qualified voters from exercising their rights.

Now joining me now is Rick Hasen, a law professor at the University of California Irvine., He recently wrote about all this saying Trump could potentially be close to violating a longstanding RNC court order that basically deals with that whole issue of whether observers are too partisan.

So, just -- let`s start there. Explain what you mean by what would be barred here.

RICHARD HASEN, UNIVERSITY OF CALFORNIA IRVINE LAW SCHOOL: Yeah, I think it`s even OK in some states to be partisan, that is there are -- there`s the ability to be a representative from the Republican Party or the Democratic Party. It depends on what your purpose is in the polling place.

If your purpose is to make sure there are no malfunctions with the voting machines, there are no long lines, no problems with how things are conducted, that`s fine. If your purpose is to intimidate voters, if your purpose is to question voters, to try to ferret out voter fraud, well, this consent decree says that the RNC and its agent can`t do that.

And what trump is suggesting, if he counts as an agent, sounds very much like it falls on the long side of the line.

MELBER: So -- and when you say consent decree, you`re referring to the idea that a judge basically struck a kind of a concluding solution here and said, don`t do that kind of a thing.

HASEN: Right. So with a consent decree, the party settled the case, but it`s enforceable by the judge through contempt. So, if the judge through contempt. So, if the RNC is found to violate this order, the judge can punish with fines or jail time or something like that, can punish both the RNC and its agents.

And the Democratic National Committee that brought this suit has been going back to court periodically saying this activity or that activity trying to collect to the names of minority voters and trying to kick them off the rolls. When the RNC does that, that violates this agreement ad potentially subjects the RNC to punishment in the court.

MELBER: Right. I mean, and not to be too lawyerly, but part of what the issue would be if you actually tested this is, is Donald Trump an agent of the RNC or does he work for the RNC, or as he looks at it, as we all know, does the RNC work for him.

But that`s a little bit beside the point, because the core point I think you`re making I want to read from part of what you wrote about this, is that it`s not a new thing to have this debate over otherwise legitimate activities.

So, you say they have refrain from undertaking any ballot security activities in polling places or districts where racial or ethnic composition is a factor in the decision to conduct it and where a purpose or a fact of such activities is to deter qualified voters from voting.

I think the take away here is, we have heard a lot of talk about voter fraud, right, especially on the voter ID issue. And the point under the law is that voter fraud is bad and that is something that the law cares about, but it is not a defense, right, to tampering, to say, oh well we`re doing ballot security or we want to make sure there is no cheating, Trump is certainly right to say there shouldn`t be cheating.

But if you just use that as a shield to then go in and actually be the one tampering or intimidating or in the words of the court deterring voting that in itself could be a violation of the order, is that right?

HASEN: That`s right. And one of the things the Rpublican Party did I believe it was in Louisiana, was get off-duty law enforcement with their guns out near the polling places and that can intimidate voters.

And I should point out, even if Trump doesn`t violate this particular order, in every state there are rules against voter intimidation. There are rules against possible even without this the voting rights people could go to court and to try to get some kind of order to stop intimidation at the polling place.

And because it`s not just Trump, he sent a message to his supporters by telling them to go to the polling place and make sure there`s no rigging of the election. That sounds pretty dangerous, especially in those states places people are allowed to bring firearms into the polling place. It sounds like a very bad idea.

KORANCKI: Right. Well, as a renowned expert on voting rights, I know this is a busy period for you, which is sort of a -- maybe a bad thing, but a good if you`re helping get all the information out. So, I appreciate you sharing your expertise with us.

HASEN: Oh, my pleasure.

MELBER: Coming up, the Khan family once again the focus of a member of the Trump campaign. We have the new comments. That`s right after this.


MELBER: Thing one tonight, the family of army captain Humayan Khan who was killed by a suicide bomb in Iraq is once against under attack from the Trump campaign. This time it`s Carl Paladino, the co-chair of Trump`s presidential effort in New York State, here is what he had to say about Captain Khan`s father on Friday.


CARL PALADINO, TRUMP CAMPAIGN: I don`t care if he`s a gold star parent, he certainly doesn`t deserve that title, OK. If he`s anti -- if he`s anti- American as he`s illustrated in his speeches and in his discussion

I mean, if he`s a member of the Muslim Brotherhood or supporting, you know, the ISIS type of attitude against America, there`s no reason for Donald Trump to have to honor this man.


MELBER: Tonight, Carl Paladino is expounding on those remarks. What he`s saying now, that is thing two in 60 seconds.



PALADINO: I don`t care if he`s a gold star parent, he certainly doesn`t deserve that title, OK. If he`s anti -- anti-American as he`s illustrated in his speeches and in his discussion.


MELBER: Two days after accusing Khizr Khan, whose son died fighting in Iraq, of being anti-American and supporting, quote, terrorists, the co- chair of Trump`s New York campaign, who you just hear there, Carl Paladino, seeked to expound on what he meant by those comments.

So, he sent an email to BuzzFeed, repeatedly misspelled Mr. Khan`s last name. But he not only did not retract those accusations, he basically added to them, accusing Mr. Khan of having, quote, prior communications with terrorist individuals and organizations. It`s something to politicize his son`s loss, of being paid big money by Hillary to take the stage and even of getting the pocket constitution he held up at the DNC as some kind of prop, quote, "which he probably never read, but also returned to the staff after the speech."

We know he read it, because he`s a lawyer, among other things. That same pocket constitution, of course, we`ve seen it a lot in his remarks int he days following that original speech.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that constitution that you keep with you in your pocket, you have it with you right now.

KHIZR KHAN, FATHER OF U.S. MARINE KILLED IN IRAQ: I always have it because it embodies, it enshrines the existence of this nation.

I carry this in my pocket out of affection for this document. At home, we have a stack of it sitting. Any time a guest comes, we give them a copy of it.

Look at its condition, it`s marked up, because I read it. And this -- 14th amendment, equal protection of law, is my favorite part of the bill of rights.

CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC: Well, it means that your children...

KHAN: Yes, exactly.

MATHEWS: Get all the rights of somebody who has been here 20 generations.



MELBER: I`ll tell you that 10:00 p.m. curfew will be implemented for teenagers in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. This is in response to a weekend of unrest that was sparked by the fatal police shooting of 23-year-old Sylville Smith. Now, Milwaukee police say he was armed with a loaded handgun and that he fled a traffic stop on foot Saturday afternoon.

And police also allege that body camera footage, which has yet to be released or confirmed, shows him turn toward the officer with the gun before that shooting.

Now, residents were in the streets for two straight nights and during the protest last night an 18-year-old man was injured by gunfire. Seven police officers also wounded by rocks and bricks that were thrown at them, 14 arrests made of protesters.

Joining me now from outside the police headquarters in Milwaukee, NBC`s Kerry Sanders. Given all that over the weekend, what has unfolded today? And what are you seeing here in the early evening?

KERRY SANDERS, NBC NEWS: Well, in the early evening we have complete calm. There were actually people gathered outside in the Sherman Park neighborhood having barbecues. It looks like a regular day.

The real reality is they have what they call troublemakers who seem to want to go and get rowdy and for two nights now, we have had basic riots here in Milwaukee in this neighborhood.

Now, you talked about that one person who was shot. This doesn`t sound like what you hear happening in the United States. Imagine this, a young man shot in the street, goes down, and the police have to get an armored personnel carrier to drive through there, retrieve him from the street in an armored personnel carrier -- they call it a Bearcat -- and then drive him out to safety to get him to the hospital.

It sounds like the sort of skirmish that you would hear in another part of the world, but it`s happening right here in Milwaukee.

But to get to the end of this, to try to stop this, one of the things that they`ve instituted, as you noted, is that there is now a curfew that is going to be enforced across the city for teenagers. The mayor made a point of addressing the community saying this is not something that they are going to take lightly. The curfew will be enforced.

MELBER: NBC`s, Kerry Sanders, thank you for your reporting.


MAYOR TOM BARRETT, (D) MILWAUKEE: ...every parent, every guardian to know, that there is a curfew that will be more strictly enforced tonight for teenagers. The curfew is a curfew of 10:00 on weekdays. So, parents, after 10:00, your teenagers better be home or in a place where they`re off the streets.

But there is a curfew that is in existence right now for teenagers.


SANDERS: All right. There is no question that the community is aware of this. Whether the teenagers have the parental supervision to follow this request is a whole other story.

The National Guard has been activated, but last night, not deployed. The police were able to handle it And the police are on the ready if there are problems again tonight.

MELBER: NBC`s Kerry Sanders, thank you. Appreciate it.

Up next, Donald Trump threatening to ban another major news outlet from his events. We are speak with another conservative radio host who says he and his fellow travelers, quote, created this monster. That`s straight ahead.



TRUMP: These people are the lowest form of life, I`m telling you. The lowest. They are the lowest form of humanity.


MELBER: Really hurts my feelings. Donald Trump repeatedly going after the press members of the press and anyone working in the media during his campaign. And that does delight some of his supporters, and often he does it in intensely personal ways.

Now, this weekend he is ratcheting up attacks. He suggested that his real opponent wasn`t Hillary Clinton, it is the press and he threatened to revoke their credentials, including from The New York Times after they ran a story characterizing him as sullen and erratic.


TRUMP: I`m not running against Crooked Hillary Clinton, I`m running against the crooked media, that`s what I`m running against.

These are the most dishonest people. The good news is I love -- you know, I put down failing at New York Times. The newspaper`s going to hell. So I think maybe what we`ll do, maybe we`ll start thinking about taking their press credentials away from them. Maybe we`ll do that. I think so.


MELBER: Then Trump went on to tweet on Sunday, quote, "it`s not freedom of the press when newspapers and others are allowed to say and write whatever they want even if it`s completely false."

And then he said, "if the disgusting and corrupt media covered me honestly and didn`t put false meaning into the words I said, I would be beating Hillary by 20 percent."

Joining me now, conservative talk radio host and MSNBC contributor Charlie Sykes, who was part of the Never Trump movement and who has said this weekend that conservative hosts, including himself, quote, created this monster by demonizing the mainstream media for two decades. And MSNBC political analyst Joan Walsh, also of course national affairs correspondent for The Nation.

I`m excited to talk to both of you about this, Charlie. I will start with you. What did you mean that you fed us up to this moment?

CHARLIE SYKES, CONSERVATIVE TALK RADIO HOST: Well, you know, I think in part -- and I have a longer analysis of this. But, you know, over the years, conservative talk show hosts -- and I`m certainly one of them, we have done a remarkable job attacking and challenging the mainstream media, but perhaps what we did was also then to destroy any sense of a standard. Who are the referees? Where do you go to basically say, you know, this is the truth.

Now, you have Donald Trump comes along and the man says things that are demonstrably untrue on a regular basis. But, you know, my experience has been, look, we live in an era where every drunk at the end of the bar has a Twitter account, has an email account, maybe has a blog. And when you try to point out, OK, this is not true, this is a lie and then you cite The Washington Post or The New York Times, their response is, that`s the mainstream media.

So, we`ve done such a good job of discrediting them, that there`s no almost no place to go to be able to fact check.

Now, having said that, the mainstream media does has some responsibility here. For years and years and years crying wolf, accusing every single Republican of being a racist. Now, you have the real thing come along and we`re kind of at a loss.


JOAN WALSH, THE NATION: Well, I really appreciate what Charlie has had to say about this. I think it`s really honest, it`s really brave. I do think -- you know, there`s an old Republican tendency to criticize the media, to blame the media, it goes back to when the civil rights movement and the Vietnam war anti-war movement really exploded and there was a perception that reporters were taking the side of the protesters. And, you know, certainly when it comes to the civil rights movement there was a reason to be on the side of the protesters.

So, there`s been this antagonism. But you know, I`m a Hillary Clinton supporter. We have plenty of complaints with the New York Times, a newspaper I overall love. But we do have a problem that we live in parallel universes.

And, you know, Fox News I think contributed to this more, even more than conservative talk radio, although it played a role. And we are in this very tough place where people do come to these debates with their own facts. And it`s really -- it`s going to make it very hard for us to come together post-Trump and figure out how to talk about this.

MELBER: Well, you`re both talking about the key role of facts, which is one of the justifications for a press. It`s not just a place for extra talk.

And, Charlie, I wonder if there`s a distinction here between the well- founded concern that`s been articulated by so many conservatives that part of the media seems rooted in living in a liberal lifestyle in the coast with certain ideas premises, about tolerance, about social issues, that are really rooted there, whether they`re strongly held or not, they`re rooted as a premise or automatic. And that seems different, right, than saying that the facts that are put out by these institutions can`t be trusted.

SYKES: Well, a lot of conservatives were alienated by that. You know, you would not have seen a conservative alternative media if they felt that they were being treated with respect. There was a certain amount of contempt, there was a certain amount of dismissal of conservative ideas. And as a result, we have the conservative alternative media. And I`m part of that. Grew up.

And I was very proud of that. And assumed that what we were doing was informing people, making people smart. Giving people factual information, telling them the other side of the story. And unfortunately what`s happened is, it has morphed into this alternative reality where, as Joan says, we live in these different silos. And having discredited the mainstream media, now, what do we have? We have the Info Wars, we have the Breitbarts, we have the Drudges, in which information is passed, things that bear no resemblance to reality whatsoever.

So, you know, I`m in the position of having on a regular basis to basically say, look, that information is not valid, that`s not true, that`s not accurate. And yet we have so effectively conditioned many of our listeners not to pay attention to something outside that bubble, outside that silo that now we have this Donald Trump phenomena.

And what you`re seeing is Donald Trump understanding that he needs to delegitimize the press itself, not just criticize bias, he needs to delegitimize any of those media stories that are going to come out about him, because there`s a lot still to come.

MELBER: Right. And that`s the difference. There`s nothing new about Republicans running against the press or as you said any candidate.

There is a difference, though, in someone who seeking to control the federal government saying I am going to use my power to seek retribution on coverage I don`t like.

WALSH: Right. I`m going to exclude reporters. I`m going to work on the libel laws to make them tougher.

MELBER: Open them up.

WALSH: Open them up so that more people like him can sue. No, it`s a really belligerent, intimidating kind of thing.

And then let`s talk about our own Katy Tur who was so threatened at a Trump rally the Secret Serves walked her to her car. There`s just a level of ginning up antagonism and hatred of the press that we really haven`t seen.

MELBER: Right. And it is a feature I`ve been to Trump rallies, as you both know, and have probably been to them as well -- it`s a feature of these rallies to get people excited about the press and the protesters before anything even happens and the notion that this is a provate event controlled by Mr. Trump. He will boot people as he sees fit. Again, that`s true. He has that right as a private individual. It would be different, he wouldn`t have that right if he was convening a federal government space.

Charlie Sykes to Joan Walsh, thank you both so much. That is All In for this evening. And the Rachel Maddow Show starts right now.