Show: ALL IN with CHRIS HAYES Date: July 12, 2016 Guest: Jelani Cobb, Eugene O`Donnell, Ben Jealous, Sarah Isgur Flores, Joan Walsh, Sam Seder
CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voice-over): Tonight on ALL IN --
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: These men, this department, this is the America I know.
HAYES: President Obama mourns the five officers killed in Dallas, as he addresses America`s racial tensions head on.
OBAMA: Even those who dislike the phrase "Black Lives Matter," surely we should be able to hear the pain of Alton Sterling`s family.
HAYES: We`ll discuss the president`s call for unity as the man running to succeed him suggests Black Lives Matter is inherently racist.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: When you have 11 cities absolutely ready to blow up over the last three or four days, and it could very well get worse.
HAYES: Plus, he is now with her.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: She will be the Democratic nominee for president. And I intend to do everything I can to make certain she will be the next president of the United States.
HAYES: Full analysis of the day some Democrats feared would never arrive.
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: We are joining forces to defeat Donald Trump, win in November, and, yes, together, build a future we can all believe in.
HAYES: When ALL IN starts right now.
HAYES: Good evening from New York, I`m Chris Hayes. It`s been an absolutely massive day of political news. We have a ton to get to.
We start with the latest. We are awaiting a very late Donald Trump who is set to speak in Westfield, Indiana, where he is joined by one of the leading contenders to be his running mate, Indiana governor and one-time Ted Cruz supporter, Mike Pence.
This on a day when President Obama and former President George W. Bush spoke of unity and tolerance and empathy at a truly incredible memorial service for the slain police officers in Dallas. Those officers, Brent Thompson, Patrick Zamarripa, Michael Krol, Michael Smith, and Lorne Ahrens were represented by five empty chairs.
The ceremony was attended by officers from around the country, as well members of Congress, Vice President Biden, President Obama, and former President George W. Bush who spoke eloquently about the need for compassion.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT: At times it seems like the forces pulling us apart are stronger than the forces binding us together. Argument turns too easily into animosity. Disagreement escalates too quickly and to dehumanization. Too often we judge other groups by their worst examples, while judging ourselves by our best intentions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Then Dallas Police Chief David Brown introduced President Obama. Today marked the 11th time, 11th time, the president has traveled to address a community following a mass shooting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Now I`m not naive. I have spoken at too many memorials during the course of this presidency. I`ve hugged too many families who have lost a loved one to senseless violence. And I`ve seen how a spirit of unity, born of tragedy, can gradually dissipate, overtaken by the return to business as usual by inertia and old habits and expediency. I see how easily we slip back into our old notions. Because they`re comfortable, we`re used to them. I`ve seen how inadequate words can be in bringing about lasting change. I`ve seen how inadequate my own words have been.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Obama also acknowledged the difficult work police officers face while taking note of racial bias in the criminal justice system.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: But America, we know that bias remains. We know it! Whether you are black or white or Hispanic or Asian or native American or of Middle Eastern descent, we have all seen this bigotry in our own lives at some point, we`ve heard it at times in our own homes. If we`re honest, perhaps we`ve heard prejudice in our own heads, and felt it in our own hearts. We know that.
And while some suffer far more under racism`s berth, some feel to a far greater extent, discriminations sting. Although most of us do our best to guard against it and teach our children better, none of us is entirely innocent. No institution is entirely immune. And that includes our police departments. We know this.
And so when African Americans from all walks of life, from different communities across the country, voice a growing despair over what they perceive to be unequal treatment, when study after study shows that whites and people of color experience the criminal justice system differently, so that if you`re black, you`re more likely to be pulled over or searched or arrested, more likely to get longer sentences, more likely to get the death penalty for the same crime. When mothers and fathers raised their kids right and have the talk about how to respond if stopped by a police officer, "yes, sir," "no, sir," but still tear that something terrible may happen when their child walks out the door, still fear that kids being stupid and not quite doing things right might end in tragedy, when all this takes place more than 50 years after the passage of the Civil Rights Act, we cannot simply turn away and dismiss those in peaceful protest as troublemakers, or paranoid.
We can`t simply dismiss it as a symptom of political correctness or reverse racism. To have your experience denied like that, dismissed by those in authority, dismissed perhaps even by your white friends and co-workers and fellow church members, again and again and again, it hurts. Surely we can see that, all of us.
We also know what Chief Brown has said is true, that so much of the tensions between police departments and minority communities that they serve is because we ask the police to do too much and we ask too little of ourselves.
As a society, we choose to under-invest in decent schools. We allow poverty to fester so that entire neighborhoods offer no prospect for gainful employment. We refuse to fund drug treatment and mental health programs.
We flood communities with so many guns that it is easier for a teenager to buy a Glock than get his hands on a computer, or even a book.
And then we tell the police, you`re a social worker, you`re the parent, you`re the teacher, you`re the drug counselor. We tell them to keep those neighborhoods in check at all costs and do so without causing any political blowback, or inconvenience. Don`t make a mistake that might disturb our own peace of mind. And then we feign surprise when periodically the tensions boil over.
We know those things to be true. They`ve been true for a long time. We know it.
Police, you know it. Protesters, you know it. You know how dangerous some of the communities where these police officers serve are. And you pretend as if there`s no context.
These things we know to be true, and if we cannot even talk about these things, if we cannot talk honestly and openly, not just in the comfort of our own circles, but with those who look different than us, or bring a different perspective, then we will never break this dangerous cycle. In the end, it`s not about finding policies that work. It`s about forging consensus and fighting cynicism, and finding the will to make change.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Before the memorial service, Donald Trump offered a far different tone, tweeting, this election is a choice between law, order and safety, as represented by Trump, the self-proclaimed law and order candidate, or chaos, crime, and violence.
Of the Black Lives Matter movement, Trump to "The A.P.", "A lot of people feel that it is inherently racist, and it`s a very divisive term because all lives matter. It`s a very divisive term."
We are as I said before waiting to see what the presumptive Republican nominee might say at his rally tonight in Indiana. We`ll bring you that as soon as it happens.
Joining me now, Jelani Cobb, staff writer for "The New Yorker" who attended the memorial service where the president spoke today in Dallas, and former New York City police officer Eugene O`Donnell, now a professor of law and policy studies at John Jay College.
Jelani, let me start with you. You were in that room. What was it like to be in there?
JELANI COBB, THE NEW YORKER: You know, it was somber, Chris. You know, when I came in, I didn`t know exactly what kind of tone there would be there. You know, there was not a great deal. I was thinking also that you would think that people would be really tense, given the nature of what happened last week.
But it really wasn`t. It was a much more somber kind of environment and people came in as the families of the deceased came in, the audience would stand up on its feet and applaud each -- they must have done this five or six times. So each time a group of family members came in.
So, it was much more kind of the sense that you would get from a funeral event than the political overtones that were very obvious there.
HAYES: Yes. Eugene, I`m curious what you made of that, because a lot of people commented it was impossible not to watch the speech and also watch the speech as refracted through the faces of police officers behind him, in the room. It felt like he was doing something unexpected. I mean, this was a full-on -- this was both a eulogy to the fallen and also a kind of full-on speech about all of the issues that have come to the fore this week. How did you feel about that?
EUGENE O`DONNELL, FORMER NYPD OFFICER: It`s a tough thing for the president. It`s a tough audience. The cops are a tough audience.
I`m afraid this was not his best effort. It came across at portions like he was hectoring the cops. He would have won the audience if he had said, if you`re white in America, you don`t know what it`s like to be African- American. If you`ve never been a cop, you don`t know what it`s like to be a cop. Then, you would have had some attention.
So, I also -- I also think it was a good opportunity under the circumstances to mention the sacrifices that white officers make, since they were the targets here. And there`s a narrative where that that`s almost hate speech. White cop -- well, there happens to be a lot of white cop doing a lot of racial healing in the country, down on the ground. They`re not commentators or bloggers. They`re actually out there in ambiguous, difficult circumstances. I wish he could have acknowledged it.
I know, whatever he says, he can`t win, because it will be picked apart.
There`s also a little bit of an element of him coming across as a CEO bashing his employees. He`s the president. We`ve had two successive black attorney generals. Where`s the reform?
And there`s a little disingenuity, when you keep repeating this thing that cops are pulling over people disproportionately, it implies all cops of racial profilers. And it also applies that in minority neighborhoods, where everything is unequal, the only thing that should be equal is the proportionality of policing.
HAYES: Well --
O`DONNELL: So, I don`t -- if you watch the speech, he had the audience for a while, and then I think he lost them.
HAYES: I`m -- Jelani, I`m curious to get your response. Eugene, you`re somebody I like tremendously and respect when you come in the show. You know, I wanted to get your perspective, because that`s not the speech I heard, but in some ways, that`s exactly the issue, how it`s refracted through different ears.
Jelani, what do you think of that?
COBB: Well, I thought Obama did something we saw with him very early in his career, from the 2004 speech, where he kind of articulated a perspective in which he could hear the finer details, the nuances of two people who believe -- two sides that believe that they have kind of irreconcilable differences. And he provides a kind of meta narrative of the way people can move forward and not be entrenched in ceaseless conflict. I think that`s what he does when we talks on these occasions.
Now, as for the particulars, certainly there were things that police officers would disagree with or find difficult to hear, but there were also things that activists found difficult to hear. As a matter of fact, when he said that there have been great racial progress and people who did not want to acknowledge that, were disrespectful of the struggles they proclaimed to find important in the first place. And he also kind of gave a full-throated endorsement of what the police are up against, saying that they are used too often.
Now, this is a quick point about everything being disproportionate. Eugene, you don`t just get to say, there`s lots of crime in a community, therefore, let`s treat the entire community as suspects. That`s the issue at hand.
COBBS: Wait, I listened to you Eugene. So the point I was saying here, even as we saw in Ferguson, that African-Americans were being pulled over disproportionately even when they were more likely to find contraband and controlled substances among white people whom they pulled over. So, there was no correlation between the actual crime rate and the likelihood of an African-American person being pulled over.
O`DONNELL: There`s a tremendous amount of policing being done in inner city America. A huge percentage of the all act of policing is being done in urban America. Suburban communities where there`s virtually no policing done.
If you want to have that conversation, it`s a very complex conversation. Don`t lay it on the cops, though. That`s really disingenuous, I think.
COBB: Who is responsible for policing if not the cops?
O`DONNELL: Pardon me?
COBB: Eugene, I`m not -- no one`s beating up on police here, but I`m saying, who`s responsible for policing if not the cops? I think that Mr. Obama --
O`DONNELL: The political leaders are responsible for policing, as a matter of fact. The police are a quasi-military. This is the front line of the organization, the quasi-military. You give them direction. They take direction for the most part.
It`s a lack of political clarity on things like drugs, where the cops are patrolling -- some of these places where the cops are patrolling, 30 percent of adult males have felony records. Are we blaming the cops for that? Does the president take no responsibility for that? And the attorney general?
It`s their system. They`re the architects. The cops are simply out there on the front line.
HAYES: Can I just say one thing? And I want to keep this going actually. We`re waiting on this Donald Trump event but I just want to say two things.
One, I think, Eugene`s point about disparate levels, right, and racial disparity, what`s interesting to me, is the thing you said was, when he said that, it makes it sound like all cops are racist. And to me, it`s -- the point is to try to separate those two.
O`DONNELL: Chris, I didn`t say that. I said that`s what he has to be careful that it sounds like.
HAYES: Right. I guess my point there is, I think he`s trying intentionally to make people uncomfortable in a weird way. I think that was the power of the speech.
But to me, it`s like he is saying, here`s what we know about these empirical realities about the disparities in our criminal justice system. And you`re right, you can start at policing and work your way all the way to the back end of parole and you find them, right? It`s not like police are isolated in that sense. But to be able to start with that as the sort of reality and to hear you feel like that`s an attack on the intentions of police seems to me precisely the issue with the conversation, right?
O`DONNELL: Well, the fact of the matter is that, if you`re a suburban police officer in America, you`re not doing much. Fact of the matter is, by policy, by law, and by screw ball things like in Missouri where revenue is being collected in poor neighborhoods, the police are doing a lot. And it`s up to the political establishment to set the terms and conditions on what the police need to be doing and how they need to be doing it.
You give them direction. They will follow that direction. They`re quasi- military people.
COBB: Well, Eugene --
O`DONNELL: They are in fact in a large vacuum, being pushed and pulled and in the middle of a lot of inconsistent feedback. If you go into a community and you listen to what people want, it`s very hard to reconcile.
HAYES: Let me just --
COBB: Eugene, there is such a thing as a police union. Let`s not make it seem as if police are kind of these ciphers with no control over what they do, and they`re just at the whim of political leaders.
O`DONNELL: Jelani, I have to say this, respectfully. There`s an elite argument here and it`s time to call it out. There are people that have never done this job, would never do this job, don`t understand the job, don`t think the job is necessary, don`t really know what the job is.
You have to -- this is, actually, believe it or not, ask anybody who wanted to be a cop and became a cop, it is different once you get in there. And the idea that they work in one of the most -- typically -- the most disempowered bullying, threatening, internal environments. And for the president to get up, and I don`t know that he meant to do this, but you need to know, for the president of the United States to get up there, a graduate of Harvard Law School, and sort of seem to be lecturing the cops, I don`t think that goes over with a police audience.
Now, he said all kinds of other things. The difficulty for this president, whatever he says, he can`t win. I`m simply saying to you, my hope would be, and it may not be doable, that the -- my hope would have been that the vast majority of the speech would have been common ground. There`s a certain amount of this speech that was not common ground, at least from the police perspective.
HAYES: I understand.
COBB: But, Eugene, so the other point that I was going to make here, he said very clearly that the majority of the police who are there, they do a very difficult job, respectfully and so on. He could not have been more gracious. He did point out that police -- even in talking about the racism within the police department, he says they`re not isolated from bigger streams.
COBB: He said it`s system that`s systemic in America broadly. So there was nothing in there that singled police out.
He even went the extra mile to say something that I actually happen to think is valid, that people ask police to do too much, in a sense that much of the conflict we have is around police who are in schools, where there should be counselors as opposed to police. Where we have police who are --
HAYES: Or trafficking.
COBB: -- handling mental health crises, social work. And many instances have come from using police where we should not be using law enforcement.
HAYES: I think this is where the conversation is moving towards over- policing and what that means. You both talked about it. Thank you both tonight for coming on. That was a great exchange. Thank you very much.
HAYES: As we wait for Trump to appear with mike pence at this rally, don`t go anywhere.
HAYES: We are awaiting remarks from Donald Trump, who is expected to speak at that rally in Westfield, Indiana. That`s the typical warm-up act on stage right now at ate Trump rally.
Moments ago on FOX News, in the interview that was taped earlier today, Trump was asked about the Black Lives Matter movement.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL O`REILLY, FOX NEWS: OK. Black Lives Matter. I`ve said it`s a hate group, built upon an opinion by their leadership of white supremacy keeping backs down. How do you define Black Lives Matter?
TRUMP: Well, first of all, I think the term is very divisive. The first time I heard it, I said, you have to be kidding, they can`t use that, they just can`t. I think it`s a very, very divisive term, there`s no question about it. I`ve heard what you`ve had to say. I think it`s a very divisive term.
O`REILLY: The group itself, are they helping America, or hurting America?
TRUMP: Well, I would say they`re dividing America. I think that statements that I`ve seen, I saw what they said about the police in various marches and rallies, I`ve seen, you know, moments of silence called for, for this horrible human being who shot the policemen.
And I -- you know, I`ve seen it. And I think it`s certainly -- it`s very divisive and I think they`re hurting themselves.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Joining me now, former NAACP president, Ben Jealous, senior fellow of the Center for Progress, Sarah Isgur Flores, deputy campaign manager for Carly Fiorina`s presidential campaign.
It`s good to have you both.
Sarah, let me start with you. I`ve been immersing myself in `68 recently for a book I`m writing. And here`s what`s happening. When you go back and read the Richard Nixon speeches in `68, everyone remembers him as law and order and hard edge. But he actually was triangulating between Wallace, you know, on one side, and Humphrey on the other.
In fact, he`s actually quite good in his `68 rhetoric of seeking the sort of middle ground. This -- you know, security is the first civil right and, of course, we listen to the complaints. There`s a smart politician there.
I feel like in the last few days, we`re watching Trump attempt to go from Wallace to Nixon in his rhetoric on this issue.
SARAH ISGUR FLORES, DEPUTY CAMPAIGN MANAGER FOR CARLY FIORINA`S PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: I actually --
BEN JEALOUS, FORMER NAACP PRESIDENT: The problem --
FLORES: -- think that Donald Trump has done a wonderful job in that sense, sounding more like a politician. He didn`t particularly answer the question. He had his own talking point and he stuck to it. I think he is speaking to his base still, but potentially, at least, not further alienating others and maybe bringing someone into the fold who wanted him to sound a little less divisive.
HAYES: Ben, your response?
JEALOUS: Yes, the -- you know, look, the problem, he`s going from a cartoon of Wallace, to a cartoon of Nixon.
HAYES: That`s exactly right.
JEALOUS: He just doesn`t have a very subtle kind of read of history. And so the talk at a third grade level and he does it so consistently, you`ve got to wonder if his understanding of politics and policy is really somewhere in grade school.
HAYES: Sarah, we`re going to get Trump out here and I imagine he`s going to respond to this. You saw the intensity of the conversation I just had with Jelani and Eugene, which I thought it was illuminating, but it`s intense, and everything about what`s happening here. I mean, it strikes me that this is one of those times when a certain kind of needle-threading rhetorical dexterity is most called for in a politician, of whatever stripe, right, of whatever ideological commitments. And I`m not quite sure Donald Trump has that.
FLORES: Well, I think he`s speaking to a different audience than you and I frankly. And I think that -- I think Ben maybe hit it on the head there a little bit, but forgets how effective it`s been, and how much it does resonate with a lot of people in the country, the way he speaks, and not just what he`s saying.
So, I think we`ve seen this with the V.P. stakes as well, on how good he is at manipulating the media. Part of that is the way he speaks, he`s able to say things that get attention and then back off them quickly. (AUDIO GAP) and that method that he has, has been very effective.
HAYES: Except, we keep seeing him hovering in the 39, 40, 41 range. And I think part of when you talk about him sounding like a politician, Sarah, to me, that is him looking at the polling, and realizing, something has to change. I mean, if you compare his reaction to Orlando, versus his reaction to the last week, it`s absolutely night and day, and I think that`s intentional.
JEALOUS: The hard part for him is that while his -- the way he talks can go up and down a scale, he can talk way down here, or way up here. It`s not clear that his thinking about politics and history, and policy, the types of things you expect a president to be conversant, really can go up and down that scale. It really seems he`s a true know-nothing.
HAYES: Yes. I think, Sarah, I think on policy, one of the things we`ll talk later on, depending on how this next hour goes -- about the platform fight and Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton. One of the things that struck me so much is, this sort of boundless room on the left on the platform, because Donald Trump is not a person who can prosecute a case on any kind of policy in particular, right?
So, if we end up in a place where we say, should we have national standards for use of force around police, I can`t imagine a universe in which he feels he can sort of confidently and expeditiously prosecute some sort of policy case. FLORES: Well, and just to add to that, what we`ve also seen is that when he does get a little fa rover his skis on the details of policy, he then walks it back later, much to the chagrin of many conservatives within the movement.
That being said, though, again, not to repeat myself, but just because it`s not in the weeds or how eloquently we would want a president to speak, doesn`t mean that it`s not extremely effective on TV. And, yes, the polls being what they are, Hillary Clinton`s numbers aren`t particularly good. Her trustworthiness numbers are in the -- I don`t know how they can get lower, though I`m sure we`re about to find out.
HAYES: Well, they can, because they could get to Donald Trump`s.
I want to just jump in for a second, because Mike Pence, who is considered to be a VP possibility, is doing his essentially audition, it appears. Let`s take a listen.
GOV. MIKE PENCE, (R) INDIANA: Donald Trump knows that the boundless potential of the American people awaits, and we can make America great again! So we must come together and elect this good man as our next president. And we must select this strong leader for one more reason, because Hillary Clinton must never become president of the United States of America.
You know, I heard Bernie Sanders endorsed Hillary Clinton today. I actually served in congress with Bernie Sanders. And let me tell you, he`s the nicest socialist I ever served with in Washington, D.C.
You know, Hillary and her party have been sliding so far to Bernie`s leftist agenda, it`s hard to keep track of it. The truth of the matter is, with their -- I just have to tell you from my heart, after looking at the direction that their party has gone, farther and farther to the left, to paraphrase the director of the FBI, I think it would be extremely careless to elect Hillary Clinton as the next president of the United States.
You know, we don`t need a president who sees Obamacare as just a good start. We don`t need a president who promises to put coal miners out of work and raise the utility rates of hard-working Americans. And as the proud father of a United States marine, let me say from my heart, we don`t need a president who took 13 hours to send help to Americans under fire, and after four brave Americans fell -- said, what difference at this point does it make?
Anyone who said that, anyone who did that, should be disqualified from ever being commander-in-chief of the armed forces of the United States of America.
So let me say, for the sake of our troops, who deserve a commander-in-chief who will have their back, for the sake of hard-working Americans and businesses who deserve a president who will get Washington, D.C. off their back, and for the sake of a Supreme Court that will never turn its back on the god-given liberties of the American people, let us resolve here and now that from this day forward, we will unite. We will stand together. We will not rest. We will not relent, until we make this good man our next president. My fellow Hoosiers, I give you the next president of the United States of America, Donald J. Trump.
HAYES: So we have heard that Mike Pence is in the running for the position of vice presidential nominee of the Republican Party. And this is the final in what have been a series of joint events that Donald Trump has done with people that are on that short list.
There was of course Bob Corker who didn`t want to talk and looked like he was making a hostage video. There`s been Newt Gingrich and then Chris Christie, who had introduced him and Michael Flynn, who is apparently on the list, has not done an event, but that was probably the most traditional political speech from a traditional political figure that we`ve seen at one of these.
Let`s take a listen.
TRUMP: How is your governor doing, by the way, good? I think so. I think so.
I just want to thank all of the people of Indiana. You know, we had a great victory here not so long ago. And Indiana was the state that put me over the top. Thank you, folks. Thank you.
Well, we have a lot of things to discuss, but we had some very bad news a few days ago and you saw what happened. A lot of bad things are happening. And I was going through a whole litany of that, but we don`t want to.
We want to be upbeat. We want to be positive. We want to be strong. And we`re going to be strong. We`re going to be stronger than ever before. We`re going to be greater than ever before. We`re going to bring our jobs back. We`re going to bring our military back. It`s being depleted so badly. We`re going to take care of our veterans, which we have to take care of. We`re going to get rid of Obamacare, which is a disaster, and replace it with something terrific. We end Common Core. We bring our education back to the local communities, like this local community, where the people love their children and they want to see their children be well educated. So important.
We`re going to save the Second Amendment. We`re going to save our Second Amendment. And it`s under siege. You know, I wrote a few words today and I think it`s important that we go through it as a group. It`s been a special place and you`re special people, and I know so many people tonight in the audience. And you`re all over, look at all those cameras up there, folks. Look at all those cameras, they don`t stop. They don`t stop.
But I just wanted to say, I wrote this quickly, but it means -- it came right from the heart, and I have to say that our whole nation grieves and mourns for the loss of five heroes in Dallas, law enforcement. These were great, great people. Great people.
We pray for their families. We pray for their loved ones. We pray for all the wounded survivors. We pray for our country. So important.
The police are not just part of our society. Our police are the best of our society. Remember that. We have to remember that. They represent our highest ideals, our greatest values, and our most noble characteristics.
When our police are attacked, our entire nation is attacked. Remember that. Remember that. So the message must be delivered clearly for all to hear, the hostility against our police has to end. And it has to end right now. And we have to stay together, and we have to be strong. We have to take care of everyone.
The two people that were killed in Louisiana and Minnesota, it was tough. It was tough to watch. For everybody here, it was tough to watch. We have to figure it out. We have to figure out what`s going on.
Was it training? Was it something else? It could have been something else. We have to take care of everybody, remember that. But we have to also -- we have to get to the bottom of things. We have to.
But we can never, ever forget the hundreds of thousands of great deals and great things that our police all over the country do, and nobody recognizes them for what they do. And when there`s a problem, as bad as these two situations were, and I personally think they were, they were bad.
I hated, I hated watching it. But as bad as they were, they get broadcast all over the world for days and days, and all of the good things, which are magnified thousands of times, nobody talks about. So we have to remember, we have to cherish and take care of our police. If we don`t, if we don`t, we don`t have a country anymore. We have a country in chaos. And remember this, and I say it once, and I say it with love, and I say it with compassion, because I have love for our country, and I have great compassion for our people in our country.
But I am the law and order candidate. We need law and order. And we need strength in this country. We don`t have strength in our country. We have crooked Hillary Clinton, as crooked as you get.
I mean, you saw that with the emails. It`s a rigged system, folks. It`s a rigged system. Just remember it, it`s a rigged system. It`s rigged in so many different ways. We`re going to straighten it out. You can`t even watch what happens.
We had a young man who did nothing by comparison to what she did, and he warned his friends of a problem that was coming, militarily, and they came down on him with a vengeance. And they let her go. 33,000 missing emails. They let her go. Lies all over the place. And they let her go.
Think of it, it`s a disgrace. So we`re going to get on to other subjects, but I have to say, law enforcement has to remain with us. We have to take care of our police and our law enforcement officials. We`re going to do it, we`re going to continue to do it. We`re going to remember that they do a fabulous job. We`re going to remember they do a great job. And every once in a while, problems will happen. And we`re going to take care of those problems.
And they can be bad problems. But we are going to treat our police with respect, remember that, okay?
Now, I`m looking at different rates and different crimes. And you see the crime rate, in large portions of our country, is going way up. You look at certain inner cities and look at Chicago. Look at what`s going on. Since President Obama became president, almost 5,000 killings in Chicago. And nobody talks about it. Well, we`re going to start talking about it, because we have to make this a safe country.
And, you know, I would say two weeks ago, a month ago, I wouldn`t be saying these words. I was talking about the border and I was talking about the wall, and we will build the wall, that I can tell you. I can tell you. Oh, we`re going to build it. Don`t worry about it. Are you ready? Who is going to pay for the wall?
TRUMP: I don`t hear you. Who is going to pay for the wall?
TRUMP: And they will. Very much. They will. Hundred percent.
And you know what, they`ll be happy to pay for the wall. We have a trade deficit with Mexico that you wouldn`t believe, billions and billions and billions of dollars a year. We`re losing on the border. We`re losing on trade. And when I was in the debates, and I mentioned this, people would come up that I was debating against, and they used to say, Donald, you`re not really going to build a wall, are you?
I say, absolutely. They said, but you can`t build a wall.
But I`m in theconstruction -- you know how easy a wall is? A wall. We build 95-story buildings with bathrooms, that`s tough construction, not a wall. Wall`s don`t have bathrooms, and bathrooms are always tough.
But we`re going to have a very big, beautiful gate in that wall, big and beautiful. And that gate`s going to be open and it`s going to be wide open for people to come into our country. But they`re going to come into our country legally. They`re going to come in legally.
And they`re going to be people that love our country. They`re not going to be people that hate our country. They`re not going to be people that we don`t know where they come from. They`re not going to be people that come from the migration, that don`t have paperwork, that don`t have passports, that we have no idea where they`re from. We have no idea what their motives are.
We`re going to say, no, sorry, no. And we`ll help. And in Syria, we`ll build safe zones. And we`ll get other people to put up the money. Because we`re going to owe very soon 20 trillion -- trillion with a T -- nobody even knows what it means. We`re going to owe 20 -- right now, can you believe this? $20 trillion. Soon going to $21 trillion.
So we`re going to get the Gulf states, who have so much money, folks, so much money. And we`re going to get them to put up the money, and others. And we`re going to take care of people. And we`re going to have compassion.
But we can`t allow them to come into our country. We have enough problems right now. You see what happened in Orlando. You see what happened in San Bernardino. We can`t allow it to happen. So we`re going to build safe zones. We`re going to take care of people. We`re going to have other people fund these safe zones. We`re going to build up our military. We should have never been in Iraq.
But once we went into Iraq, we should have never left the way we left. We left like fools. We went in, should have never happened. I didn`t want to go from the beginning and I have proof from the beginning. I didn`t want Iraq. I said you`re going to destabilize the entire Middle East and that`s exactly what happened.
But then we were there, losing thousands of lives, spends trillions and trillions of dollars, probably in the Middle East, we`re up to $4 trillion. And we`re in worse shape now than we were 15 years ago, before the whole deal started. Far worse. Not even close. Far worse. Far worse.
So what we`re going to do, we`re going to start thinking smart. We`re gonna be smart again. We`re gonna make great military -- and by the way, I said for years, we`ve gotta keep the oil. I said keep the oil, you leave, you keep the oil. We didn`t do it. We didn`t do it.
I said it for years, once we were in, I said, when we get out, it`s going to be a disaster. But when we get out, we should have left some troops there, and I hate saying that, but we should have left some troops there. And it would have been better certainly than it is right now.
Can`t be any worse. But I always said, keep the oil. But we didn`t keep the oil.
So who has the oil right now? A lot of the oil is had by ISIS. And we created ISIS. And Hillary Clinton, through her incompetence, directly and indirectly, created ISIS. And now she wants to get rid of it. She says, yes, we will fight ISIS. She`s the one that created it. With stupidity, with stupid, stupid policy, policy that`s only going to get worse. She is the one that created it. And that`s what`s happened.
And so now we have problems all over the place. We have our cities exploding. We have ISIS looking at us. And by the way, when our enemies all over the world, including our friends all over the world, look at what`s happening to our country, where the other night you had 11, think of it, 11 cities potentially in a blowup stage, marches all over the United States, and tough marches. Anger, hatred. Hatred.
Started by a maniac that some people asked for a moment of silence for him for the killer. For the killer. OK. So when our enemies look at what`s going on with our country, they see our deficits. They see we don`t win anymore. We don`t win. We don`t win at anything. I always say, when I was young, going to high school, and going to college, and before that, we never lost. The United States had never lost a war. Now we never win. We don`t win on trade. We don`t win with our military. Our military is so depleted. Our military has fighter jets that are in use, flown by...
HAYES: All right, that is Donald Trump speaking for the first time since sort of, I guess, off prompter, and live, since the sort of horrible sequence of tragedies last week. We have Ben Jealous and Sara Iskar for us -- still with us.
Well, Ben, your reaction?
JEALOUS: You know, I guess I had hoped to hear more about the seven lives that were lost. I had hoped to hear something about racial healing and bringing our country together. What we heard about was building a wall. You know, we heard him blame Hillary Clinton for the creation of ISIS, which is a bit bizarre. And, you know, it`s just really -- you listen to Donald Trump and you get very worried, because here`s a guy you really don`t know what he`s going to do. You have a strong man who`s a know- nothing, who makes all these promises, but never really backs them up with any real plans.
But I also found myself falling asleep a bit. And I think that`s kind of the danger for him, Chris is that he`s going to try to sort of calm things down, and tone things down. And then he`ll become less interesting. I don`t know how he holds his movement together without being a lightning rod of, you know, hatred and xenophobia.
HAYES: Sarah, this strikes me as -- I mean, when he is being -- attempting to play the part of a normal politician on the one hand, on the other hand, reading the thing off the paper, it`s like you can sort of visibly see him shrinking. And the problem is, there`s a choice between being that, which is more boring and less controversial and being the kind of like compelling controversial figure which so far has not been moving the needle among general election voters.
FLORES: Yes. On the other hand, I think what we are seeing is, he`s getting better and more comfortable taking the fight to Hillary Clinton, making this a referendum on her. He`s got to do that heading into the fall.
And I thought tonight he did better than he has in the past. On the other hand...
HAYES: That`s grading on a curve, Sarah, if i can say.
FLORES: A large curve, I will grant you that.
On the other hand, I also think that set aside this speech, what has the media been talking about for four days. It`s been Who he is going to pick as vice president. And he`s been dangling one thing out, taking it back. It will be a general. No, I want an attack dog. So that`s working in his favor. He`s still capturing the media. The polls, maybe he hopes will come around.
HAYES: All right, Ben Jealous and Sarah Iskour Flores, thank you both for waiting that out with both of us.
Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton, together on stage for the first time in this election with Bernie Sanders endorsing Hillary Clinton. We`re going to talk about that right after this. Don`t go anywhere.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SANDERS: I have come here to make it as clear as possible as to why I am endorsing Hillary Clinton, and why she must become our next president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Today in New Hampshire after a primary season that was so hard and long-fought, it began to make some people wonder if this event would ever happen. Bernie Sanders officially endorsed Hillary Clinton.
Joining me now, MSNBC political analyst Joan Walsh, national affairs correspondent for The Nation and Hillary Clinton supporter. And MSNBC contributor Sam Seder, host of Majority Report with Sam Seder.
Well, people -- here`s what I want to start with, Sam, to you. One of the things that happened in the primary was people, because of the Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders, she`s pragmatic, he`s the ideologue, massively discounted what a pragmatic political figure he`s been his entire career.
And there was always -- he`s not going to endorse her. This, to me, was always going to be...
SAM SEDER, HOST, MAJORITY REPORT: Yeah, it was inevitable. I mean, look, my assumption is that Bernie Sanders entered this race with the idea of I want to push a movement. I want to push an agenda. It made all the sense in the world for him to do what he`s done to this point, to push that agenda. I mean, he has changed the Democratic platform. He has changed the positions that Hillary Clinton took. He forced her to take a lot of very specific positions in the primary they think she probably just gamed out, didn`t want to take, like any candidate, probably wouldn`t want to getnailed down.
HAYES: Most candidates want to take as few positions as possible.
SEDER: Of course. And there`s a very specific agenda, far more specific, I will say, than what Barack Obama had to this point in 2008. And I think that`s to his credit.
JOAN WALSH, THE NATION: I agree. I mean, she had a specific agenda, too, but he definitely pushed her to the left on certain things. I was really struck by. I had never seen her, and I don`t think any of us had ever seen her come out and say, and you know we don`t want bad tradedeals, and that includes the TPP. That is something that really splits her from President Obama. People made a big deal about the fact that it wasn`t in the platform, people -- you know, a lot of people on the left fought for it, because they don`t trust her to really be against the TPP. That took guts for her to say that.
HAYES: Well, I thought that was -- to me, one of the most interesting moments in the whole thing, was first saying those words and saying it as an applause line to a crowd that knows that`s an applause line. When, yes, like every one -- I mean, I`ve talked to people in Washington, they`re all like -- how are they going to work this? And is it going to be a lame duck? And the president really wants this as a legacy item.
So I thought that was a very interesting, just to have that piece of sound, her saying that, was pretty fascinating.
SEDER: Well, I mean, I think that is the issue with the TPP in the platform. Because the impact there is really about the lame-duck session. And with Clinton out there talking against the TPP, it decreases the room for Democrats in the House and the Senate.
HAYES: That`s right.
SEDER: ...to vote for it.
HAYES: When she`s on stage saying it to me, that carries more weight than the platform.
SEDER: Both would be nice, but, yes, I would agree.
HAYES: And it`s also to me, I mean, god, this has been written up a bunch of places, like the left-ward tilt of the center of the Democratic Party, when I stand back and think about a party that was running over itself to basically sister soldier anyone who was going to scare off the median white independent suburban voter. It`s a shocking transformation.
WALSH: Run away from gun control, never mentioned the criminal justice reform.
No, I thought it was a really strong speech. I thought he deserved a lot of credit for it. I also thought it was poignant. At first it was a little awkward. I was worried about it. And he didn`t seem completely into it. But it really was that you saw his regret at his own -- he should have -- he thought he should have been up there. He got very close.
But as he went through the speech, it got more heart-felt. he ad-libbed at the end that she`s one of the most intelligent people he`s ever worked with. It became for being a little bit painful, it became more authentic to me.
SEDER: I mean, look, I think the bottom line is that Bernie Sanders`s agenda was parallel to the campaign.
HAYES: Yes, yes.
SEDER: I mean, there were times where that intersected. It was parallel to the campaign. I don`t think it was ever a threat that Bernie Sanders was in any way hurting Hillary Clinton`s general election chances and he was promoting a moment that I think he thinks is bigger than both of them.
HAYES: It`s going to be very interesting to see how this plays out at the convention, which is just two weeks away.
Joan Walsh and Sam Seder, thank you both.
That is All In for this evening. The Rachel Maddow Show starts right now.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. END