Show: ALL IN with CHRIS HAYES Date: July 7, 2016 Guest: Wesley Lowery, DeRay McKesson, Maya Wiley, Michael Burgess, Ben Domenech, Maya Wiley, Joan Walsh, Catherine Rampell (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voice-over): Tonight on ALL IN --
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is not just a black issue. It`s not just a Hispanic issue. This is an American issue.
HAYES: President Obama addresses the nation in the wake of two police shootings.
OBAMA: What if this happened to somebody in your family?
HAYES: Tonight as protests grow, the president`s extraordinary call for change.
Then -- REPORTER: Was it tense? How would you characterize it?
SEN. JEFF FLAKE (R), ARIZONA: Yes, it was tense.
HAYES: Donald Trump`s Senate smack-down. Eleven days from Cleveland, tense times for Trump as convention coup talk swirls and Ted Cruz makes a move.
SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: Donald asked me to speak at the Republican convention, and I told him I`d be happy to do so.
HAYES: And frustrated Republicans search for answers from the FBI.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As a non-lawyer, as a non-investigator, it would appear to me you have got a hell of a case.
JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR: And I`m telling you we don`t and I hope people take the time to understand why.
HAYES: The Clinton industrial scandal rolls on when ALL IN starts right now.
(END VIDEOTAPE) HAYES: Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes.
For the second time in two days, a police killing of a black man has brought about outrage and a particular kind of horror that comes when there`s graphic video of a life lost at the state`s hands. This time, the shooting was in Falcon Heights, Minnesota, and the video in the immediate aftermath of the shooting was streamed live on Facebook by the fiancee of the dying victim.
The two shootings prompting President Obama to make extended and extraordinary remarks after landing in Warsaw, Poland, for a NATO summit.
We will bring you those remarks in a moment. But first, at about 9:00 p.m. yesterday, 32-year-old Philando Castile was pulled over for a broken tail light, according to his fiancee, Diamond Reynolds, who was a passenger in the car, along with her 4-year-old daughter. The following is a large portion of Reynold`s live stream video just moments after the shooting in which she describes what happened. The video is graphic and disturbing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DIAMOND REYNOLDS, VICTIM`S FIANCEE: Stay with me. We got pulled over for a busted tail light in the back and the police just -- he`s covered. He`s killed my boyfriend. He`s licensed -- he`s carried -- he`s licensed to carry.
He was trying to get out his ID and his wallet out his pocket and he let the officer know that he was -- he had a firearm and he was reaching for his wallet and the officer just shot him in his arm. We`re waiting for a backup. OFFICER: Ma`am, keep your hands where they are. REYNOLDS: I will, sir, no worries. I will. (EXPLETIVE DELETED) REYNOLDS: He just shot his arm off. We got pulled over on Larpenteur. OFFICER: I told him not to reach for it! I told him to get his head up! REYNOLDS: He had, you told him to get his ID, sir, his driver`s license.
Oh my God. Please don`t tell me he`s dead. Please don`t tell me my boyfriend just went like that.
OFFICER: Keep your hands where they are.
REYNOLDS: Yes, I`ll keep my hands where they are. Please don`t tell me this, Lord. Please, Jesus, don`t tell me that he`s done.
(END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Reynolds said it took 15 minutes for paramedics to arrive.
Philando Castile was taken to Hennepin County Medical Center in Minneapolis. He was declared dead at 9:37. Castile worked for the St. Paul public school system, in the nutrition services department. Reynolds said he had just come from getting a hair cut for his birthday, which was just about a week away. Crowds gathered almost immediately after the shooting and the live-stream video, and today, further protests around the entire nation.
Today, Diamond Reynolds was released by police and gave a lengthy interview posted on Facebook. Here is a portion of that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REYNODS: They took me to jail. They didn`t give us water. They took everything from me. They put me in a room and separated me from my child.
They treated me like a prisoner.
They treated me like I did this to me. And I didn`t. They did this to us.
They took a black man away.
We used to be safe here, but the police, the people that are supposed to serve and protect us are not serving us and are not protecting us. They`re taking innocent people away from their families. They`re taking innocent people off the streets, and it`s not OK. It`s not OK.
Everyone will see that this was a very detrimental situation. Not only to me, not only to her, but everybody in this community. Everybody in this world, not just blacks, not just whites, not just Asians, but everyone.
This affected everyone.
Not black lives matter. All lives matter! Every single life out here matter, no matter the color, the race, the nationality, we all deserve to be heard.
(END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: The police officer is on paid leave, pending the investigation, which is standard procedure.
Minnesota`s Governor Mark Dayton said he requested the Justice Department investigate the case. The Justice Department said it would monitor the state investigation being conducted by Minnesota`s state Bureau of Criminal Apprehension.
The governor was blunt in his assessment of the killing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GOV. MARK DAYTON (D), MINNESOTA: Would this have happened if those passengers, the driver and the passenger were white? I don`t think it would have. So I`m forced to confront -- I think all of us in Minnesota are forced to confront. This -- this kind of racism exists.
(END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: This comes less than 48 hours after the shooting death of Alton Sterling in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, a shooting at very close range, which immediately prompted a federal investigation. Also, that shooting caught on tape.
President Obama after arriving in Warsaw today, spoke for over 50 minutes, citing statistics about the increased rates in which people of color are killed by law enforcement and calling for bipartisan action.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) OBAMA: According to various studies, not just one, but a wide range of studies that have been carried out over a number of years, African- Americans are 30 percent more likely than whites to be pulled over. After being pulled over, African-Americans and Hispanics are three times more likely to be searched.
Last year, African Americans were shot by police at more than twice the rate of whites. African Americans are arrested at twice the rate of whites. African-American defendants are 75 percent more likely to be charged with offenses, carrying mandatory minimums. They receive sentences that are almost 10 percent longer than comparable whites arrested for the same crime, so that if you add it all up, the African American and Hispanic population who make up only 30 percent of the general population make up more than half of the incarcerated population.
Now, these are facts. There`s a big chunk of our fellow citizenry that feels as if because of the color of their skin, they are not being treated the same. And that hurts. And that should trouble all of us.
This is not just a black issue. It`s not just a Hispanic issue. This is an American issue that we should all care about. All fair-minded people should be concerned.
We have extraordinary appreciation and respect for the vast majority of police officers who put their lives on the line to protect us every single day. They`ve got a dangerous job. It is a tough job. And as I`ve said before, they have a right to go home to their families, just like anybody else on the job. And there are going to be circumstances in which they have to make split-second decisions, we understand that. And it`s incumbent on all of us to say, we can do better than this, we are better than this. And to not have it degenerate into the unusual political scrum, we should be able to step back, reflect, and ask ourselves, what can we do better so that everybody feels as if they`re equal under the law?
Now the good news is, is that there are practices we can institute that will make a difference. I`m encouraged by the fact that the majority of leadership and police departments around the country recognize this, but change has been too slow. We have to have a greater sense of urgency about this.
I`m also encouraged by the way, that we have bipartisan support for criminal justice reform, working its way through Congress. On a regular basis, we bring in those who have done heroic work in law enforcement and have survived. Sometimes they`ve been injured, sometimes they risk their lives in remarkable ways and we applaud them and appreciate them, and also saying that there are problems across our criminal justice system. There are biases, subconscious and unconscious, that have to be rooted out.
And I would just ask those who question the sincerity or the legitimacy of protests and vigils and expressions of outrage who somehow label those expressions of outrage as, quote/unquote, "political correctness". I just ask folks to step back and think, what if this happened to somebody in your family? How would you feel?
(END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Joining me now, Pulitzer Prize-winning writer and national reporter for "The Washington Post", Wesley Lowery. His book, "They Can`t Kill Us All" comes out this fall, and you`re definitely going to want to read that.
Wesley, all right, I guess we should start with what happened in Falcon Heights, and I think there`s a few things that are striking about this particular instance. One is the presence of a weapon which was apparently announced by Mr. Castile at the time of the search. He was permitted to have it. And two is the just way that video plays a role almost as a kind of life raft for Ms. Reynolds in this extremely perilous and dangerous situation.
WESLEY LOWERY, NATIONAL REPORTER, WASHINGTON POST: Of course. That Reynolds has now watched her fiance, her boyfriend, be shot by a police officer, the gun is still trained on her loved one next to her. And rather than, as we`ve seen time and time again previously, rather than call 911 and say, can a sergeant come out, can the ambulance come out?
What she thought in this moment, I need to document this, I need to show someone in real time, right, that people will not believe me unless I can broadcast that. The wherewithal to broadcast live was remarkable.
And I think it speaks to this idea and we`ve seen it whether it`d be in this shooting, whether it`d be in Alton Sterling, the night previously, I mean, a ton of other shootings, Walter Scott. This idea that black men and women see their stories being validated through videotape, that they`re saying, and black men and women have been saying for generations in this country, we are treated this way by law enforcement, and people said, no, you`re not, you`re making it up.
And now, video, whether it`d be after someone is killed, whether it`d be taken themselves, or they`d be captured in a body camera, has now in dozens of cases shown us that there are circumstances, that there are times when the police are not being forthcoming about these circumstances and that, no, Black Americans, we`re not making this up.
HAYES: You have been part of the team that won the Pulitzer, documenting statistically deaths at the hands of the police in the United States. And I guess in broad strokes, I imagine, I think the president may have been citing your work as he read those statistics today. What do we know about whether the problem is getting better or worse?
LOWERY: Well, it is getting worse. The police this year, in the first six months of the year are on pace to kill 6 percent more people, to shoot and kill 6 percent more people than last year.
And so, what we`re seeing here is not a decrease in fatal shootings, rather, an increase in fatal shootings. And that`s coming despite the fact that more of these shootings are being caught on camera, right? So there are 30 more shootings this year than at this point last year that have been captured on -- whether it be a dash cam or a body camera or a bystander video.
And yet, there are 30 more shootings total than there were last year. So, what we know is the amount of fatal police shootings on average, three each day of the calendar year, has not in any way been abated. Rather it started to uptick.
HAYES: Wes Lowery of "The Washington Post" -- that book again is "They Can`t Kill Us All," comes out in November.
All right. Joining me is DeRay McKesson, civil rights activist and founder of Campaign Zero, a police reform group, and Maya Wiley, chair of the civilian complaint review board here in New York City, which oversees the New York City police and also former counsel to Mayor de Blasio.
DeRay, let me start with you. I have seen a pattern in expressions of anguish from people in the last two days. And also, I have seen a fair amount of despair. Two years ago, Michael Brown was shot in Ferguson. I think that was the start of concerted attention and organizing and a movement around police killings, around policing.
Where are things two years later? What do you say to people that are tempted by despair?
DERAY MCKESSON, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST: So, what we know to be true is that these two men should be alive today. The police officers chose to kill them. They could have made a different choice. We knew that in 2014 when Mike Brown was killed and we`ve known it for so long.
I think where we are now is that protest is the act of telling the truth in public. People have been using their bodies to tell the truth about the trauma that people are facing and also to tell the truth about the fact that we can live in a world where the police don`t kill people. So, what we see now is people in the streets highlighting what`s happening, but also pressing their legislators for an expanded use of force policy, that makes it really clear that deadly force should be used as a last resort, that preservation of life should be key.
You know, Obama, his statement today was important. But it will be more important for him to actually make a federal use of force policy for the use of force standards to be included in the Democratic convention platform. That`s what we`re seeing people push for, these concrete things that can change. Change the structure, that will then change culture.
HAYES: Maya, you have fascinating experience. You were general counsel of New York city mayor`s office. You`re now heading up the civilian complaint review board.
How much of this is about training at one end and how much of this is a part of a just much broader way of policing that America has arrived at?
MAYA WILEY, CHAIR, CIVILIAN COMPLAINT REV. BOARD, NYC: That`s an important question. I should qualify my answer first by saying I`m not quite --
HAYES: You haven`t started yet. Right. WILEY: I`m not quite yet the chair, by July 18th.
Look, I think that we`re seeing today and what we`ve been seeing over the past several years is both an awakening of -- because of technology, about the realities as we`ve heard about what can happen to folks unfairly sometimes and to an extreme loss of life and it`s tragic and disgraceful.
I think we`ve also seen that, and certainly our New York experience, it`s critically important whether police departments see themselves as in relationship with community or if they see themselves as at odds with community.
I was having a conversation with someone in city hall. Actually, it was a police officer who was a friend of mine. And one of the things he was saying is that under the previous police commissioner, he was punished for taking off his gun and playing basketball with kids on his beat. Punished for that.
Under this current commissioner, that`s actually not something that would be punishment behavior. So, the encouragement of a different set of relationships is fundamental. But it`s also oversight and accountability, right? I mean, New York City has a civilian complaint review board and it`s really fundamentally important that there`d be some form of accountability and oversight that`s also fair and just.
HAYES: And yet, DeRay, what I feel part of the seeds of despair in folks that I`ve seen, people that I`ve talked to and people I`ve been in touch with over the last 48 hours, in reportorial capacity and the capacity as a friend, is the idea of the accountability on the back end, after this has happened won`t bring the person back, A, and, B, we`ve already seen time and time again, either no indictment or an indictment and then a not guilty verdict. The system just doesn`t seem designed to produce accountability on the back end.
MCKESSON: Yes, so this is about a broken culture. And we know that the policing in so many cities and so many states, the culture of policing is broken. What happened when you give people the power to take someone`s life and they can do it with literally -- they can do it with impunity at every stance?
So, we believe that if you change structures and systems that will make a police officer accountable, that would change the culture of policing in and of itself. That would discourage people from choosing to kill black and brown people across the country. It would change it on the front end too. And I think that`s a real solution. I think that`s possible.
But again, what we`re seeing with the lack of convictions is not the court saying they were not involved in the death of these unarmed citizens.
We`re seeing the court saying their involvement was not criminal. And that shows us there`s a set of laws, policies and practices that simply protect the police at all steps for any reason and that just isn`t OK.
HAYES: All right. DeRay McKesson and Maya Wiley, it`s a great pleasure to have you here. Thank you very much for coming.
WILEY: Thank you for having me. HAYES: We`re going to keep an eye on the protests that are happening in at least four or five cities around the country tonight, from Atlanta to Minneapolis, St. Paul, here in New York, down to Philly.
There`s a lot of political news to report as well. So do not go anywhere.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: That is a live shot of Fifth Avenue here in New York City where protesters have been on the move for the past several hours, shutting down traffic, one of several cities around the country, including in Minneapolis and St. Paul, Minnesota, right near the site of last night`s tragic shooting that are erupting from protests today in the wake of two black men killed by police officers in just the last 48 hours.
There`s also big politics news day today. With just 11 days until the Republican National Convention, Donald Trump went to Capitol Hill to reassure member of his party that despite continuing criticism from GOP leaders, a string of unforced errors and plans for a possible convention coup, he has everything under control.
Trump met first behind closed door with 215 House Republicans, and perhaps because many of those lawmakers are in safe, gerrymandered districts, things seem to have gone relatively well.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. CHRIS COLLINS (R), NEW YORK: What you saw today was Donald Trump, the next president of the United States, super charge the Republican conference, one standing ovation after another.
(END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: It`s a far different story at Trump`s meeting with Senate Republicans, four senators in tight re-election races, including John McCain, Marco Rubio and Illinois` Mark Kirk skipped the meeting.
And it was quite a show. Trump reportedly went after Kirk in absentia, who withdrew his endorsement of Trump last month, characterizing Kirk as a loser in front of Kirk`s colleagues. Trump also had an extremely tense exchange with Arizona Senator Jeff Flake, who introduced himself as the, quote, "the other senator from Arizona, the one who didn`t get captured," a reference to Trump`s criticism of McCain`s time as a prisoner of war during the Vietnam War. Afterward the meeting, Flake told NBC`s Hallie Jackson he felt compelled to say something.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. JEFF FLAKE (R), ARIZONA: When he attacks the other senator from Arizona, John McCain, and attacks his war record by saying, I don`t respect people who get captured, I mean, that`s an awful, awful thing to say about a war hero, a true war hero. And I don`t think that we can be dismissive of that kind of statement.
(END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: After Flake told Trump he doesn`t feel he can support him at this point, Trump responded to hit hard at Flake. Trump also told Flake he would not win re-election to which flake told him, he was not up for re- election this year.
Trump hast yet to reveal who will be speaking at the convention, despite promises to do, though he did reportedly tell the House GOP the convention speakers will include his wife, his daughter, and Jack Nicklaus. So that`s a start.
While Rubio and John Kasich, two of Trump`s biggest rivals in the primary have said they will not speak, Senator Ted Cruz got a personal meeting with Trump today announced this afternoon that he will be speaking with one big caveat.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. TED CRUZ (R), ARIZONA: Donald asked me to speak at the Republican convention and I told him I`d be happy to do so.
REPORTER: What else was discussed during the meeting?
CRUZ: There was no discussion of the endorsement. He asked me if I would speak at the convention and I said I`d be very glad to do so.
(END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Joining me now, Representative Michael Burgess, Republican of Texas, who supports Donald Trump and was in the meeting today.
Congressman, how did you think the meeting went?
REP. MICHAEL BURGESS (R), TEXAS: Chris, thanks for having me on.
First off, I thought the meeting, number one, I`m glad that it occurred. I had actually wanted it to happen a month ago or even earlier than that. It was important to have the meeting today. I think members and the candidate got a chance to take a good measure of each other and I thought the candidate delivered, Mr. Trump delivered a very powerful message of unity and he delivered it well.
HAYES: There`s been some reporting indicating that Donald Trump specifically asked you and your colleagues to tell the press that the meeting went well. Is that true? Did he ask you to tell us that?
BURGESS: Not at the meeting I was in. But everyone wants a good news story, right?
HAYES: I suppose. Here`s my question for you.
I don`t know if you watched Donald Trump speak or you watched his rally last night -- BURGESS: Oh, yes, when they`re on, when you guys carry them, I try to watch them. One of the best evenings I had was three, four weeks ago down in Texas, and I got home just as his rally was starting in Dallas. I went there. They let me say a few words on the stage before it started.
I`ll tell you, Chris, I`ve never felt the energy like I felt at that Donald Trump rally. It is an incredible event. It`s really something to see if you`ve never seen one.
HAYES: Yes, here`s the thing about that, it strikes me that maybe what plays well in the room of a Donald Trump rally isn`t necessarily playing really well with, say, the median American voter, the undecided voter, the voter who is not already a Donald Trump die-hard. For instance, last night, he spent maybe five to ten minutes on how the media is treating Donald Trump.
Do you think your constituents care about that?
BURGESS: Well, maybe they don`t. But look, from his perspective, he ran a tough race against 16 other opponents in a Republican primary. He`s now going to run against the other candidates that are involved in the November election. And I think he feels very acutely -- I don`t want to speak for him, but I think he does feel that he`s running against the media as well. I don`t think that`s a stretch.
HAYES: Sure. BURGESS: No Republican candidate ever has the media on their side through a presidential election. That just doesn`t happen.
HAYES: I respectfully disagree, but let me ask you this. Was there discussion in that meeting of a substantive agenda so you can go back to your constituents and say, this is what the government and country are going to look like beyond build the wall and make Mexico pay for it, beyond trade is going to be so easy? Do you have a sense of that?
BURGESS: The short answer to your question is yes. And as you may or may not know, maybe you haven`t been paying attention to what`s been going on in the House. Paul Ryan has put together his legislative task forces, his governing agenda -- HAYES: I`m going to stop you right there. Is Paul Ryan`s view on trade the same as Donald Trump`s?
BURGESS: Well, of course they`re likely not. But I think the bones are there of a good policy agenda. And, you know, from my perspective, I like to talk about health care. I got to tell you this, the Donald Trump campaign reached out to me right after the Indiana election -- HAYES: There you go.
BURGESS: And I endorsed Donald Trump. They reached out to me and said, what do you think about health care? I`ve never had that happen in a presidential campaign. I think that`s positive.
HAYES: We`ll be looking forward to Burgess care.
BURGESS: There you go.
HAYES: Congressman, thank you very much for your time. I appreciate it. BURGESS: Thank you.
HAYES: Joining me now, Ben Domenech, publisher of "The Federalist" who opposes Trump.
I got to say, the inability -- first of all, where do you start on this Senate meeting? I mean, he goes in there, he`s calling a U.S. senator in the caucus a loser, he`s threatening another one, he`s saying he`s going to win Illinois.
BEN DOMENECH, THE FEDERALIST: Here`s the thing that`s an interesting contrast there, Chris. Calvin Coolidge said you never have to apologize for the thing you don`t say. He goes into the House meeting and he encourages people to go out and talk about how great the meeting goes and they`re all united, and everything like that. And then he goes across the Senate side and his response to from what from my perspective is very accurate criticism from Jeff Flake, that you continue to say things that make it impossible for me to support you. He respond to that by calling him a loser, and calling out the other people who don`t support him.
What you see in Trump is someone who wavers back and forth, between -- promising that he`s going to unite the Republican Party around him, promising that he`s going to stay on message, promising to go after Hillary, to Trump who seems to be more interested in making waves, even if they`re bad waves and getting the media`s attention.
HAYES: Yes, I think he`s caught in a loop. I`m sure Congressman Burgess enjoyed the rally and lots of people enjoyed these rallies. That`s not the audience that Donald Trump needs to speak to. And I think the Senate caucus is aware of that because there are people in the Senate caucus who are going to win races statewide.
DOMENECH: Yes, absolutely, and that`s going to be the challenge for a lot of them, who unlike Jeff Flake are up this time around. I think this is a scenario where honestly Trump has to take the next two weeks and really focus on picking a good V.P., having a good convention, they need to be good in order for him to make a come back from a number of unforced errors that have really been on him.
They have not been -- they have not been anybody`s fault, but his own.
Otherwise, I think you`re going to see his poll numbers continue to have the kind of challenges that they`re seeing in all of these different key states.
HAYES: Are you confident -- I mean, it`s kind of amazing to me. The convention is 11 days away, OK? Who knows who the veep is going to be?
Him, his wife, his daughter, and Jack Nicklaus. I guess that gets you one night, maybe. Are you confident this thing is going to be pulled together?
DOMENECH: You know, I have to say, that as a media organization, running one, and trying to cover this convention, it`s the least planned out one that we`ve seen ever. And because of that, it`s very difficult to anticipate what`s going to happen from night to night. I think that that`s indicative of the kind of campaign that he`s run to this point.
Now, Paul Manafort did run the convention in 1996. We`ll see if they`re able to pull it together in time. But it`s evident that a lot of people who Trump has maybe promised or wanted to have there have decided that it`s better to stay from the show. HAYES: Very quickly, does Ted Cruz stick the shiv in on stage? DOMENECH: You know, I think that`s a very interesting possibility. The fact that he agreed to speak, but did not agree to endorse is indicative of the fact that he might have a very different message in Cleveland than the one that you hear from Donald Trump. HAYES: That is going to be very interesting. Ben Domenech, thanks for your time tonight. Appreciate it. All right, still to come, Donald Trump just can`t seem to let that star tweet go, insisting he`s not wrong, everyone else is wrong. What he said, coming up. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: There are protests at this hour across the country tonight after two fatal police shootings in two days. First, the shooting of Alton Sterling in Baton Rouge, Louisiana in Tuesday, and then the shooting and killing of Philando Castile in Falcon Heights, Minnesota yesterday. Right now, protesters are on the street in Atlanta. Protesters have also taken to the streets here in New York City. And outside the Minnesota governor`s mansion in St. Paul, where there has been a strong protest movement demanding justice from the governor who had some strong words today. We`ll continue to monitor throughout the night. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: Presumptive nominee Donald Trump is defending his early Saturday morning tweet that showed a Twitter image widely viewed as anti-Semitic of a six-pointed star next to a picture of Hillary Clinton with a bunch of money in the background. His account later deleted that image and replaced the star with a circle.
And on stage in Cincinnati last night said he would never have replaced the image. That it wasn`t a Star of David, just a regular star. He also accused the media of, quote, racially profiling because, according to him, it wasn`t for us there would be no Star of David controversy in the first place. Shortly after the rally ended, Trump continued his Star of David defense by, of all things, invoking the Disney movie Frozen. Where is the outrage for this Disney book? Is this the Star of David also?
Dishonest media, #frozen. Just to be clear, as the website Mic.com first pointed out, that image of Hillary Clinton and the six-pointed star and a pile of money that Trump tweeted out previously existed on an internet message board of the alt- right, a digital movement of neo-Nazis, anti-Semites and white supremacists. Joining me now, Catherine Rampell, opinion columnist of The Washington Post. We`re on day six of Star of David gate entirely because of Donald Trump. CATHERINE RAMPELL, THE WASHINGTON POST: Well, I mean, it would have been because of Donald Trump to begin with, to be fair. But yes, I mean, when this first broke, it was upsetting, it was outrageous, lots of negative feelings, but honestly my initial reaction was this is a dog bites man story. Trump has tweeted neo-Nazi propaganda in the past. It`s the news cycle. It goes away. And it pobably would have. There has frankly been a lot of other news in the headlines recently, some quite favorable to Trump, and he cannot keep himself from talking about this again and again and dragging Disney into it. HAYES: Well, and I think it`s also gone in to this -- I mean, on day six of this, right. So, there`s two issues going on here. There this sort of playing digital footsy with neo-Nazis, OK, the Nazi frogs as I call them. These are the people that show up with their frog avatars, tweeting about Jews. RAMPELL: I`ve heard from them, yes. HAYES: Right. Yes, well, we all have at this point. But there`s also this deep question of like you are now -- we are one degree removed from virulent anti-Semitism in a mainstream candidate which is a jarring and I would dare say new thing in American politics. RAMPELL: I`m not sure we`re one degree removed. I mean, I know he says I love the Jews just like I love the blacks and I love the Mexicans and he likes to say this and he points out that his daughter... His daughter is Jewish. He has Jewish in-laws at this point as well, and grandchildren are Jewish. But this is -- you know, if this is an accident, that his campaign has tweeted this material out multiple times, it is willful negligence, I would say. They have done this again and again.
Clearly the alt-right seized this as a signal. David Duke said there`s no other way one can read this tweet, except as, you know, pointing out that the Jews are controlling everything and it`s deliberately anti-Semitic. So, you know, I think it`s giving him too much of the benefit of the doubt to say, oh, yeah, this is one degree removed, this was meaningless. HAYES: Then you have Jared Kushner who is, of course, his son-in-law, who is Ivanka`s husband. Ivanka has converted to judaism. You know, an employee of his own media organization writing an open letter saying, you need to condemn this. And him saying, basically, he`s a great guy and of course he`s not anti-Semitic. RAMPELL: And he said -- the other interesting thing about all of that was taht Jared Kushner when he responded to this, said my father-in-law has an open heart and I know he loves the Jews and blah, blah, blah, but he said that the campaign was kind of playing fast and loose with Twitter. And kind of implicitly saying there was a mistake was made. I think he said it was careless, his campaign was carelessly tweeting things. And trump of course subsequently has gone in the opposite direction and has said, no, no, no, this was not careless. HAYES: And he should have left it up there. RAMPELL: They should have left it up there. HAYES: All right, we`ll see if we can get through a full week of the Star of David gate. Catherine RAmpell, thanks for joining us. Coming up, Republican frustrated by the FBIs recommendations of no charges for Hillary Clinton decide to investigate the investigators. Didn`t go exactly as planned. That story coming up. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: All right, thing one tonight, we`ve come to associate the hashtag search feature on Twitter with trending news topics. But there are hashtags for everything, like say, popular children`s movies, such as Disney hit Frozen, the beloved film of the over four crowd, including my 4- year-old daughter. Here`s what that looked like hashtag looked like recently. Mostly tweets from automated bots talking Elsa and Anna dolls on eBay, sometimes tweets like this one from a Frozen themed party. But every children`s movie needs a farcical villain. That`s where Donald Trump comes in. As we told you earlier, the presumptive Republican keeps defending his tweet of a meme, featuring Hillary Clinton, a pile of cash and a six- pointed Star of David. For six days, he has not let it go, if you will. Last night, Trump kept the controversy alive by tweeting a picture of a Frozen-themed coloring book lamenting "where is the outrage for this Disney book. Is this the Star of David also?" Dishonest media #frozen." Thing two, what happened to the hashtag #Frozen after that Trump tweet in 60 seconds. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: Day six of Trump`s Star of David meme controversy. And last night, the presumptive nominee used a children`s coloring book as proof the meme he tweeted out was not anti-Semitic. "Where is the outrage for this Disney book. Is this the Star of David also? Dishonest media #Frozen." Twitter being Twitter had a field day of this. Opinions ranging from "Don`t you dare bring Frozen into this." To, "I didn`t think we`d hit the Frozen sticker book phase of the election so soon." Hillary Clinton to a nod to one of movie`s songs tweeted this in response to Trump`s tweet, "Do you want to build a Straw man?" Which prompted its own wave of reactions including, "I saw the best minds of a generation destroyed by having to deal with a presidential nominees debating the merits of Frozen iconography." But perhaps the last word on the matter should go to the voice of Anna herself, actress Kristen Bell. She responded to Trump`s tweet this way, "zip it, Don, get your head out of your ass. We`ve more important things to talk about today. Alton Sterling, Philando Castile." (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BRIAN WILLIAMS, NBC NEWS: NBC`s Lisa Myers tonight on where Whitewater stands. LISA MYERS, NBC NEWS: The surprise appointment sent shockwaves across the White House and congress and threw the entire six month Whitewater investigation into limbo. Starr, a Reagan Republican, is a former federal appeals judge and served as George Bush`s solicitor general. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: 22 years ago this summer, NBC Nightly News reported on Kenneth Starr`s appointment to the newly reinstituted post of independent counsel, charged with investigating the Clintons` Whitewater scandal. Now, someone else had been expected to get the job, a lawyer named Robert Fisk, who had been picked by Attorney General Janet Reno earlier that year to start the inquiry into Whitewater, which is a failed real estate deal that lost money for Bill and Hillary Clinton. After six months, Fisk released a report finding no evidence of wrongdoing by the Clintons. Zilch. And that is when the Clinton scandal industrial complex shifted into gear. Republicans in congress were unsatisfied, insisting Fisk, a Republican, couldn`t be independent because he was appointed by the attorney general who was appointed by Bill Clinton, who was the subject of the probe. A panel of judges agreed with that logic. And in August 1994, they chose Ken Starr to take over as the new independent counsel. And over the next six years, Starr`s investigations would take him from Whitewater, which wasn`t going anywhere, to travelgate, which petered out, to filegate, and don`t worry, basically no one outside professional politics even remembers what originally sparked these bogus scandals. And ultimately through a few more roundabouts and back roads to Monica Lewinsky, which lead to President Clinton`s impeachment for perjury and obstruction of justice. And, let me stress, had nothing whatsoever to do with the original probe into Waterwater where this all started. That probe wasn`t closed until just before Clinton left office. After the impeachment hearnigs were long over, Ken Starr had already left the independent counsels office, and just like the initial report six years earlier it came up completely empty, meaning both Clintons were exonerated of wrongdoing for Whitewater. In totally unrelated news, a week after an eighth congressional committee on Benghazi released its findings still unable to incriminate Hillary Clinton, today the House oversight committee called FBI Director James Comey who actually served as Ken Starr`s deputy back in the 90s to testify about his recommendation not to charge Clinton over her emails. There were a couple of ways Republicans could have gone with this: they could hammer on the discrepancies between the FBI`s findings and Clinton`s public account of how she handled her emails as Congressman Trey Gowdy tried to do. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. TREY GOWDY, (R) SOUTH CAROLINA: Secretary Clinton said she never sent or received any classified information over her private email, was that true? JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR: Our investigation found there was classified information sent... GOWDY: So it was not true? COMEY: That`s what I said. GOWDY: Secretary Clinton said, I did not email any classified material to anyone on my email. There is no classified material. Was that true? COMEY: No, there was classified mAterial email. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Or they could grandstand and make a mess of trying to undermine the witness because they can`t help themselves. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ll be at a couple of cafes where I see folks and meetings and they`re going to ask questions about what took place. Have you seen the Broadway production Hamilton? COMEY: Not yet. I`m hoping to. UNIDENTIFIED MALE; I haven`t either, but I understand that it won choreography Tony Award. The problem I have in explaining to my constituents is what`s come down, it almost looks like a choreography.
My folks think that there`s something fishy about this. I`m not a conspiracy theorist, but there are a lot of questions on how this came down. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Still ahead, in the wake of two police shooting deaths in just 48 hours, there are protests happening at this hour around the country.
Tonight people gathering in numerous cities. The latest on that next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: So, we`ve been watching these protests happening all over the country tonight after the latest shooting by police of a black man, the second in just two days. Joining me now, Joan Walsh, MSNBC political analyst, national affairs correspondent of The Nation. Back with me Maya Wiley, who is about to become the chair of the (inaudible) complaint review board that oversees the New York City Police, and a former counsel to the Mayor Bill de Blasio here in New York. Joan, let me start with you on this question. The president talked today about -- just put yourself in the shoes of someone who lost a family member this way. Try to think of it that way, try to be empathetic, try not to get into the usual battle lines. JOAN WALSH, THE NATION MAGAZINE: That`s right. Red, blue. HAYES: Yeah, because you see it. I mean knew immediately well what was -- was he complying, did he have a -- you know, all this desire to justify that you see that I actually don`t really understand, frankly. Do you think the politics of this are moving? WALSH: I think the politics are moving. I think it was great that Governor Dayton came out today and just flat out said very early in his statement, yes, I think it was racism. Yes, I think he would be alive and this wouldn`t have happened in front of his girlfriend and her daughter if he were white. That was a big progress. On the other hand it`s sad to me that the president even has to tell us, use your empathy, people, meaning white people, because it has become this thing where I can predict your reaction to a police shooting, more or less by your party, and especially if you support Donald Trump. So we`re making progress, Black Lives Matter is probably the most vital, potent movement that we`ve seen. I got caught in the demonstration on my way here, and happy to see it. So we`ve made a lot of progress and yet people are not being prosecuted and people are still being killed in cold blood. HAYES: And yet in the case one of the things that I think complicates the politics, particulaly in the case in both of these men, they were both armed, but they were carrying for the purposes that the people who advocate the most maximum interpretation second rights say they should be able to -- to protect themselves. In the case of Mr. Castile, legally and with a permit and advising the officer. WALSH: That he had them. HAYES: So, my question today is, deafening silence from the NRA. WILEY: And add to that deeply troubling irony that the NRA actually made the argumentthat black people should be anti-gun control because of the amount of gun violence in black communities. So this actually stands in a palpable and emotional opposition to that very argument. HAYES: Right, because they made the argument because -- that the only way you can defend yourself... WILEY: ...is with a firearm. HAYES: ...is with a firearm. And yet of course when a police encounters a firearm, then you are a threat. And these two men have been killed punitively because they were armed. WILEY: And what`s critically important here is the notion of implicit bias, which we talked about and actually the president referred to in his speech, which is that we have to take into account, as we think about improving policing in this country, the way in which sometimes even unconscious racial stereotypes impact the decisions police officers may make in a split second and how they interpret the information that they are getting. And it`s deeply troubling. It is also very different how you respond to that kind of problem, that over racism. They`re both important to respond to and cannot be tolerated, but they`re dealt with differently. And I`m proud of the fact that the NYPD has implicit bias training that it`s instituting now. HAYES: Those NYPD right now out on the streets with protesters who have taken over part of Times Square. There were some arrests.
The thing that I keep thinking about -- and we`re talking about this empathy is that last night, I came home and I saw the video and I didn`t know the outcome, and I was praying, like he was kin, that he would live, like he was kin. I was so, please, tell me this man lived -- and I -- at the same time, it`s like the videos can be dehumanizing and exploitative, but there is power in them, I have to say politically I think at this moment. WALSH: I think so too. And I have to say that we know that two young children, a 15-year-old boy and a 4-year-old girl have witnessed these, or at least in the case of the video, have seen these men murdered in cold blood. I mean, that -- just watching yesterday the sun crying, just you know, destroyed. WILEY: And the 4-year-old having to tell her mother that, in fact... HAYES: I`m here for you. WILEY: And heard that her father was dead. HAYES: Right. Maya Wiley and Joan Walsh. That is All In for this evening. THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. END
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voice-over): Tonight on ALL IN --
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is not just a black issue. It`s not just a Hispanic issue. This is an American issue.
HAYES: President Obama addresses the nation in the wake of two police shootings.
OBAMA: What if this happened to somebody in your family?
HAYES: Tonight as protests grow, the president`s extraordinary call for change.
Then --
REPORTER: Was it tense? How would you characterize it?
SEN. JEFF FLAKE (R), ARIZONA: Yes, it was tense.
HAYES: Donald Trump`s Senate smack-down. Eleven days from Cleveland, tense times for Trump as convention coup talk swirls and Ted Cruz makes a move.
SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: Donald asked me to speak at the Republican convention, and I told him I`d be happy to do so.
HAYES: And frustrated Republicans search for answers from the FBI.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As a non-lawyer, as a non-investigator, it would appear to me you have got a hell of a case.
JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR: And I`m telling you we don`t and I hope people take the time to understand why.
HAYES: The Clinton industrial scandal rolls on when ALL IN starts right now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HAYES: Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes.
For the second time in two days, a police killing of a black man has brought about outrage and a particular kind of horror that comes when there`s graphic video of a life lost at the state`s hands. This time, the shooting was in Falcon Heights, Minnesota, and the video in the immediate aftermath of the shooting was streamed live on Facebook by the fiancee of the dying victim.
The two shootings prompting President Obama to make extended and extraordinary remarks after landing in Warsaw, Poland, for a NATO summit. We will bring you those remarks in a moment.
But first, at about 9:00 p.m. yesterday, 32-year-old Philando Castile was pulled over for a broken tail light, according to his fiancee, Diamond Reynolds, who was a passenger in the car, along with her 4-year-old daughter. The following is a large portion of Reynold`s live stream video just moments after the shooting in which she describes what happened. The video is graphic and disturbing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DIAMOND REYNOLDS, VICTIM`S FIANCEE: Stay with me. We got pulled over for a busted tail light in the back and the police just -- he`s covered. He`s killed my boyfriend. He`s licensed -- he`s carried -- he`s licensed to carry.
He was trying to get out his ID and his wallet out his pocket and he let the officer know that he was -- he had a firearm and he was reaching for his wallet and the officer just shot him in his arm. We`re waiting for a backup.
OFFICER: Ma`am, keep your hands where they are.
REYNOLDS: I will, sir, no worries. I will.
(EXPLETIVE DELETED)
REYNOLDS: He just shot his arm off. We got pulled over on Larpenteur.
OFFICER: I told him not to reach for it! I told him to get his head up!
REYNOLDS: He had, you told him to get his ID, sir, his driver`s license.
Oh my God. Please don`t tell me he`s dead. Please don`t tell me my boyfriend just went like that.
OFFICER: Keep your hands where they are.
REYNOLDS: Yes, I`ll keep my hands where they are. Please don`t tell me this, Lord. Please, Jesus, don`t tell me that he`s done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Reynolds said it took 15 minutes for paramedics to arrive. Philando Castile was taken to Hennepin County Medical Center in Minneapolis. He was declared dead at 9:37.
Castile worked for the St. Paul public school system, in the nutrition services department. Reynolds said he had just come from getting a hair cut for his birthday, which was just about a week away. Crowds gathered almost immediately after the shooting and the live-stream video, and today, further protests around the entire nation.
Today, Diamond Reynolds was released by police and gave a lengthy interview posted on Facebook. Here is a portion of that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REYNODS: They took me to jail. They didn`t give us water. They took everything from me. They put me in a room and separated me from my child. They treated me like a prisoner.
They treated me like I did this to me. And I didn`t. They did this to us. They took a black man away.
We used to be safe here, but the police, the people that are supposed to serve and protect us are not serving us and are not protecting us. They`re taking innocent people away from their families. They`re taking innocent people off the streets, and it`s not OK. It`s not OK.
Everyone will see that this was a very detrimental situation. Not only to me, not only to her, but everybody in this community. Everybody in this world, not just blacks, not just whites, not just Asians, but everyone. This affected everyone.
Not black lives matter. All lives matter! Every single life out here matter, no matter the color, the race, the nationality, we all deserve to be heard.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: The police officer is on paid leave, pending the investigation, which is standard procedure.
Minnesota`s Governor Mark Dayton said he requested the Justice Department investigate the case. The Justice Department said it would monitor the state investigation being conducted by Minnesota`s state Bureau of Criminal Apprehension.
The governor was blunt in his assessment of the killing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. MARK DAYTON (D), MINNESOTA: Would this have happened if those passengers, the driver and the passenger were white? I don`t think it would have. So I`m forced to confront -- I think all of us in Minnesota are forced to confront. This -- this kind of racism exists.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: This comes less than 48 hours after the shooting death of Alton Sterling in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, a shooting at very close range, which immediately prompted a federal investigation. Also, that shooting caught on tape.
President Obama after arriving in Warsaw today, spoke for over 50 minutes, citing statistics about the increased rates in which people of color are killed by law enforcement and calling for bipartisan action.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: According to various studies, not just one, but a wide range of studies that have been carried out over a number of years, African- Americans are 30 percent more likely than whites to be pulled over. After being pulled over, African-Americans and Hispanics are three times more likely to be searched.
Last year, African Americans were shot by police at more than twice the rate of whites. African Americans are arrested at twice the rate of whites. African-American defendants are 75 percent more likely to be charged with offenses, carrying mandatory minimums. They receive sentences that are almost 10 percent longer than comparable whites arrested for the same crime, so that if you add it all up, the African American and Hispanic population who make up only 30 percent of the general population make up more than half of the incarcerated population.
Now, these are facts. There`s a big chunk of our fellow citizenry that feels as if because of the color of their skin, they are not being treated the same. And that hurts. And that should trouble all of us.
This is not just a black issue. It`s not just a Hispanic issue. This is an American issue that we should all care about. All fair-minded people should be concerned.
We have extraordinary appreciation and respect for the vast majority of police officers who put their lives on the line to protect us every single day. They`ve got a dangerous job. It is a tough job. And as I`ve said before, they have a right to go home to their families, just like anybody else on the job. And there are going to be circumstances in which they have to make split-second decisions, we understand that.
And it`s incumbent on all of us to say, we can do better than this, we are better than this. And to not have it degenerate into the unusual political scrum, we should be able to step back, reflect, and ask ourselves, what can we do better so that everybody feels as if they`re equal under the law?
Now the good news is, is that there are practices we can institute that will make a difference. I`m encouraged by the fact that the majority of leadership and police departments around the country recognize this, but change has been too slow. We have to have a greater sense of urgency about this.
I`m also encouraged by the way, that we have bipartisan support for criminal justice reform, working its way through Congress. On a regular basis, we bring in those who have done heroic work in law enforcement and have survived. Sometimes they`ve been injured, sometimes they risk their lives in remarkable ways and we applaud them and appreciate them, and also saying that there are problems across our criminal justice system. There are biases, subconscious and unconscious, that have to be rooted out.
And I would just ask those who question the sincerity or the legitimacy of protests and vigils and expressions of outrage who somehow label those expressions of outrage as, quote/unquote, "political correctness". I just ask folks to step back and think, what if this happened to somebody in your family? How would you feel?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Joining me now, Pulitzer Prize-winning writer and national reporter for "The Washington Post", Wesley Lowery. His book, "They Can`t Kill Us All" comes out this fall, and you`re definitely going to want to read that.
Wesley, all right, I guess we should start with what happened in Falcon Heights, and I think there`s a few things that are striking about this particular instance. One is the presence of a weapon which was apparently announced by Mr. Castile at the time of the search. He was permitted to have it. And two is the just way that video plays a role almost as a kind of life raft for Ms. Reynolds in this extremely perilous and dangerous situation.
WESLEY LOWERY, NATIONAL REPORTER, WASHINGTON POST: Of course. That Reynolds has now watched her fiance, her boyfriend, be shot by a police officer, the gun is still trained on her loved one next to her. And rather than, as we`ve seen time and time again previously, rather than call 911 and say, can a sergeant come out, can the ambulance come out?
What she thought in this moment, I need to document this, I need to show someone in real time, right, that people will not believe me unless I can broadcast that. The wherewithal to broadcast live was remarkable.
And I think it speaks to this idea and we`ve seen it whether it`d be in this shooting, whether it`d be in Alton Sterling, the night previously, I mean, a ton of other shootings, Walter Scott. This idea that black men and women see their stories being validated through videotape, that they`re saying, and black men and women have been saying for generations in this country, we are treated this way by law enforcement, and people said, no, you`re not, you`re making it up.
And now, video, whether it`d be after someone is killed, whether it`d be taken themselves, or they`d be captured in a body camera, has now in dozens of cases shown us that there are circumstances, that there are times when the police are not being forthcoming about these circumstances and that, no, Black Americans, we`re not making this up.
HAYES: You have been part of the team that won the Pulitzer, documenting statistically deaths at the hands of the police in the United States. And I guess in broad strokes, I imagine, I think the president may have been citing your work as he read those statistics today. What do we know about whether the problem is getting better or worse?
LOWERY: Well, it is getting worse. The police this year, in the first six months of the year are on pace to kill 6 percent more people, to shoot and kill 6 percent more people than last year.
And so, what we`re seeing here is not a decrease in fatal shootings, rather, an increase in fatal shootings. And that`s coming despite the fact that more of these shootings are being caught on camera, right? So there are 30 more shootings this year than at this point last year that have been captured on -- whether it be a dash cam or a body camera or a bystander video.
And yet, there are 30 more shootings total than there were last year. So, what we know is the amount of fatal police shootings on average, three each day of the calendar year, has not in any way been abated. Rather it started to uptick.
HAYES: Wes Lowery of "The Washington Post" -- that book again is "They Can`t Kill Us All," comes out in November.
All right. Joining me is DeRay McKesson, civil rights activist and founder of Campaign Zero, a police reform group, and Maya Wiley, chair of the civilian complaint review board here in New York City, which oversees the New York City police and also former counsel to Mayor de Blasio.
DeRay, let me start with you. I have seen a pattern in expressions of anguish from people in the last two days. And also, I have seen a fair amount of despair. Two years ago, Michael Brown was shot in Ferguson. I think that was the start of concerted attention and organizing and a movement around police killings, around policing.
Where are things two years later? What do you say to people that are tempted by despair?
DERAY MCKESSON, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST: So, what we know to be true is that these two men should be alive today. The police officers chose to kill them. They could have made a different choice. We knew that in 2014 when Mike Brown was killed and we`ve known it for so long.
I think where we are now is that protest is the act of telling the truth in public. People have been using their bodies to tell the truth about the trauma that people are facing and also to tell the truth about the fact that we can live in a world where the police don`t kill people. So, what we see now is people in the streets highlighting what`s happening, but also pressing their legislators for an expanded use of force policy, that makes it really clear that deadly force should be used as a last resort, that preservation of life should be key.
You know, Obama, his statement today was important. But it will be more important for him to actually make a federal use of force policy for the use of force standards to be included in the Democratic convention platform. That`s what we`re seeing people push for, these concrete things that can change. Change the structure, that will then change culture.
HAYES: Maya, you have fascinating experience. You were general counsel of New York city mayor`s office. You`re now heading up the civilian complaint review board.
How much of this is about training at one end and how much of this is a part of a just much broader way of policing that America has arrived at?
MAYA WILEY, CHAIR, CIVILIAN COMPLAINT REV. BOARD, NYC: That`s an important question. I should qualify my answer first by saying I`m not quite --
HAYES: You haven`t started yet. Right.
WILEY: I`m not quite yet the chair, by July 18th.
Look, I think that we`re seeing today and what we`ve been seeing over the past several years is both an awakening of -- because of technology, about the realities as we`ve heard about what can happen to folks unfairly sometimes and to an extreme loss of life and it`s tragic and disgraceful. I think we`ve also seen that, and certainly our New York experience, it`s critically important whether police departments see themselves as in relationship with community or if they see themselves as at odds with community.
I was having a conversation with someone in city hall. Actually, it was a police officer who was a friend of mine. And one of the things he was saying is that under the previous police commissioner, he was punished for taking off his gun and playing basketball with kids on his beat. Punished for that.
Under this current commissioner, that`s actually not something that would be punishment behavior. So, the encouragement of a different set of relationships is fundamental. But it`s also oversight and accountability, right? I mean, New York City has a civilian complaint review board and it`s really fundamentally important that there`d be some form of accountability and oversight that`s also fair and just.
HAYES: And yet, DeRay, what I feel part of the seeds of despair in folks that I`ve seen, people that I`ve talked to and people I`ve been in touch with over the last 48 hours, in reportorial capacity and the capacity as a friend, is the idea of the accountability on the back end, after this has happened won`t bring the person back, A, and, B, we`ve already seen time and time again, either no indictment or an indictment and then a not guilty verdict. The system just doesn`t seem designed to produce accountability on the back end.
MCKESSON: Yes, so this is about a broken culture. And we know that the policing in so many cities and so many states, the culture of policing is broken. What happened when you give people the power to take someone`s life and they can do it with literally -- they can do it with impunity at every stance?
So, we believe that if you change structures and systems that will make a police officer accountable, that would change the culture of policing in and of itself. That would discourage people from choosing to kill black and brown people across the country. It would change it on the front end too. And I think that`s a real solution. I think that`s possible.
But again, what we`re seeing with the lack of convictions is not the court saying they were not involved in the death of these unarmed citizens. We`re seeing the court saying their involvement was not criminal. And that shows us there`s a set of laws, policies and practices that simply protect the police at all steps for any reason and that just isn`t OK.
HAYES: All right. DeRay McKesson and Maya Wiley, it`s a great pleasure to have you here. Thank you very much for coming.
WILEY: Thank you for having me.
HAYES: We`re going to keep an eye on the protests that are happening in at least four or five cities around the country tonight, from Atlanta to Minneapolis, St. Paul, here in New York, down to Philly.
There`s a lot of political news to report as well. So do not go anywhere.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HAYES: That is a live shot of Fifth Avenue here in New York City where protesters have been on the move for the past several hours, shutting down traffic, one of several cities around the country, including in Minneapolis and St. Paul, Minnesota, right near the site of last night`s tragic shooting that are erupting from protests today in the wake of two black men killed by police officers in just the last 48 hours.
There`s also big politics news day today. With just 11 days until the Republican National Convention, Donald Trump went to Capitol Hill to reassure member of his party that despite continuing criticism from GOP leaders, a string of unforced errors and plans for a possible convention coup, he has everything under control.
Trump met first behind closed door with 215 House Republicans, and perhaps because many of those lawmakers are in safe, gerrymandered districts, things seem to have gone relatively well.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. CHRIS COLLINS (R), NEW YORK: What you saw today was Donald Trump, the next president of the United States, super charge the Republican conference, one standing ovation after another.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: It`s a far different story at Trump`s meeting with Senate Republicans, four senators in tight re-election races, including John McCain, Marco Rubio and Illinois` Mark Kirk skipped the meeting.
And it was quite a show. Trump reportedly went after Kirk in absentia, who withdrew his endorsement of Trump last month, characterizing Kirk as a loser in front of Kirk`s colleagues. Trump also had an extremely tense exchange with Arizona Senator Jeff Flake, who introduced himself as the, quote, "the other senator from Arizona, the one who didn`t get captured," a reference to Trump`s criticism of McCain`s time as a prisoner of war during the Vietnam War.
Afterward the meeting, Flake told NBC`s Hallie Jackson he felt compelled to say something.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JEFF FLAKE (R), ARIZONA: When he attacks the other senator from Arizona, John McCain, and attacks his war record by saying, I don`t respect people who get captured, I mean, that`s an awful, awful thing to say about a war hero, a true war hero. And I don`t think that we can be dismissive of that kind of statement.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: After Flake told Trump he doesn`t feel he can support him at this point, Trump responded to hit hard at Flake. Trump also told Flake he would not win re-election to which flake told him, he was not up for re- election this year.
Trump hast yet to reveal who will be speaking at the convention, despite promises to do, though he did reportedly tell the House GOP the convention speakers will include his wife, his daughter, and Jack Nicklaus. So that`s a start.
While Rubio and John Kasich, two of Trump`s biggest rivals in the primary have said they will not speak, Senator Ted Cruz got a personal meeting with Trump today announced this afternoon that he will be speaking with one big caveat.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ (R), ARIZONA: Donald asked me to speak at the Republican convention and I told him I`d be happy to do so.
REPORTER: What else was discussed during the meeting?
CRUZ: There was no discussion of the endorsement. He asked me if I would speak at the convention and I said I`d be very glad to do so.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Joining me now, Representative Michael Burgess, Republican of Texas, who supports Donald Trump and was in the meeting today.
Congressman, how did you think the meeting went?
REP. MICHAEL BURGESS (R), TEXAS: Chris, thanks for having me on.
First off, I thought the meeting, number one, I`m glad that it occurred. I had actually wanted it to happen a month ago or even earlier than that. It was important to have the meeting today. I think members and the candidate got a chance to take a good measure of each other and I thought the candidate delivered, Mr. Trump delivered a very powerful message of unity and he delivered it well.
HAYES: There`s been some reporting indicating that Donald Trump specifically asked you and your colleagues to tell the press that the meeting went well. Is that true? Did he ask you to tell us that?
BURGESS: Not at the meeting I was in. But everyone wants a good news story, right?
HAYES: I suppose. Here`s my question for you.
I don`t know if you watched Donald Trump speak or you watched his rally last night --
BURGESS: Oh, yes, when they`re on, when you guys carry them, I try to watch them. One of the best evenings I had was three, four weeks ago down in Texas, and I got home just as his rally was starting in Dallas. I went there. They let me say a few words on the stage before it started.
I`ll tell you, Chris, I`ve never felt the energy like I felt at that Donald Trump rally. It is an incredible event. It`s really something to see if you`ve never seen one.
HAYES: Yes, here`s the thing about that, it strikes me that maybe what plays well in the room of a Donald Trump rally isn`t necessarily playing really well with, say, the median American voter, the undecided voter, the voter who is not already a Donald Trump die-hard. For instance, last night, he spent maybe five to ten minutes on how the media is treating Donald Trump.
Do you think your constituents care about that?
BURGESS: Well, maybe they don`t. But look, from his perspective, he ran a tough race against 16 other opponents in a Republican primary. He`s now going to run against the other candidates that are involved in the November election.
And I think he feels very acutely -- I don`t want to speak for him, but I think he does feel that he`s running against the media as well. I don`t think that`s a stretch.
HAYES: Sure.
BURGESS: No Republican candidate ever has the media on their side through a presidential election. That just doesn`t happen.
HAYES: I respectfully disagree, but let me ask you this. Was there discussion in that meeting of a substantive agenda so you can go back to your constituents and say, this is what the government and country are going to look like beyond build the wall and make Mexico pay for it, beyond trade is going to be so easy? Do you have a sense of that?
BURGESS: The short answer to your question is yes. And as you may or may not know, maybe you haven`t been paying attention to what`s been going on in the House. Paul Ryan has put together his legislative task forces, his governing agenda --
HAYES: I`m going to stop you right there. Is Paul Ryan`s view on trade the same as Donald Trump`s?
BURGESS: Well, of course they`re likely not. But I think the bones are there of a good policy agenda. And, you know, from my perspective, I like to talk about health care. I got to tell you this, the Donald Trump campaign reached out to me right after the Indiana election --
HAYES: There you go.
BURGESS: And I endorsed Donald Trump. They reached out to me and said, what do you think about health care? I`ve never had that happen in a presidential campaign. I think that`s positive.
HAYES: We`ll be looking forward to Burgess care.
BURGESS: There you go.
HAYES: Congressman, thank you very much for your time. I appreciate it.
BURGESS: Thank you.
HAYES: Joining me now, Ben Domenech, publisher of "The Federalist" who opposes Trump.
I got to say, the inability -- first of all, where do you start on this Senate meeting? I mean, he goes in there, he`s calling a U.S. senator in the caucus a loser, he`s threatening another one, he`s saying he`s going to win Illinois.
BEN DOMENECH, THE FEDERALIST: Here`s the thing that`s an interesting contrast there, Chris. Calvin Coolidge said you never have to apologize for the thing you don`t say. He goes into the House meeting and he encourages people to go out and talk about how great the meeting goes and they`re all united, and everything like that.
And then he goes across the Senate side and his response to from what from my perspective is very accurate criticism from Jeff Flake, that you continue to say things that make it impossible for me to support you. He respond to that by calling him a loser, and calling out the other people who don`t support him.
What you see in Trump is someone who wavers back and forth, between -- promising that he`s going to unite the Republican Party around him, promising that he`s going to stay on message, promising to go after Hillary, to Trump who seems to be more interested in making waves, even if they`re bad waves and getting the media`s attention.
HAYES: Yes, I think he`s caught in a loop. I`m sure Congressman Burgess enjoyed the rally and lots of people enjoyed these rallies. That`s not the audience that Donald Trump needs to speak to. And I think the Senate caucus is aware of that because there are people in the Senate caucus who are going to win races statewide.
DOMENECH: Yes, absolutely, and that`s going to be the challenge for a lot of them, who unlike Jeff Flake are up this time around. I think this is a scenario where honestly Trump has to take the next two weeks and really focus on picking a good V.P., having a good convention, they need to be good in order for him to make a come back from a number of unforced errors that have really been on him.
They have not been -- they have not been anybody`s fault, but his own. Otherwise, I think you`re going to see his poll numbers continue to have the kind of challenges that they`re seeing in all of these different key states.
HAYES: Are you confident -- I mean, it`s kind of amazing to me. The convention is 11 days away, OK? Who knows who the veep is going to be? Him, his wife, his daughter, and Jack Nicklaus. I guess that gets you one night, maybe. Are you confident this thing is going to be pulled together?
DOMENECH: You know, I have to say, that as a media organization, running one, and trying to cover this convention, it`s the least planned out one that we`ve seen ever. And because of that, it`s very difficult to anticipate what`s going to happen from night to night. I think that that`s indicative of the kind of campaign that he`s run to this point.
Now, Paul Manafort did run the convention in 1996. We`ll see if they`re able to pull it together in time. But it`s evident that a lot of people who Trump has maybe promised or wanted to have there have decided that it`s better to stay from the show.
HAYES: Very quickly, does Ted Cruz stick the shiv in on stage?
DOMENECH: You know, I think that`s a very interesting possibility. The fact that he agreed to speak, but did not agree to endorse is indicative of the fact that he might have a very different message in Cleveland than the one that you hear from Donald Trump.
HAYES: That is going to be very interesting. Ben Domenech, thanks for your time tonight. Appreciate it.
All right, still to come, Donald Trump just can`t seem to let that star tweet go, insisting he`s not wrong, everyone else is wrong. What he said, coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HAYES: There are protests at this hour across the country tonight after two fatal police shootings in two days. First, the shooting of Alton Sterling in Baton Rouge, Louisiana in Tuesday, and then the shooting and killing of Philando Castile in Falcon Heights, Minnesota yesterday.
Right now, protesters are on the street in Atlanta. Protesters have also taken to the streets here in New York City. And outside the Minnesota governor`s mansion in St. Paul, where there has been a strong protest movement demanding justice from the governor who had some strong words today. We`ll continue to monitor throughout the night.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HAYES: Presumptive nominee Donald Trump is defending his early Saturday morning tweet that showed a Twitter image widely viewed as anti-Semitic of a six-pointed star next to a picture of Hillary Clinton with a bunch of money in the background.
His account later deleted that image and replaced the star with a circle. And on stage in Cincinnati last night said he would never have replaced the image. That it wasn`t a Star of David, just a regular star. He also accused the media of, quote, racially profiling because, according to him, it wasn`t for us there would be no Star of David controversy in the first place.
Shortly after the rally ended, Trump continued his Star of David defense by, of all things, invoking the Disney movie Frozen.
Where is the outrage for this Disney book? Is this the Star of David also? Dishonest media, #frozen.
Just to be clear, as the website Mic.com first pointed out, that image of Hillary Clinton and the six-pointed star and a pile of money that Trump tweeted out previously existed on an internet message board of the alt- right, a digital movement of neo-Nazis, anti-Semites and white supremacists.
Joining me now, Catherine Rampell, opinion columnist of The Washington Post.
We`re on day six of Star of David gate entirely because of Donald Trump.
CATHERINE RAMPELL, THE WASHINGTON POST: Well, I mean, it would have been because of Donald Trump to begin with, to be fair.
But yes, I mean, when this first broke, it was upsetting, it was outrageous, lots of negative feelings, but honestly my initial reaction was this is a dog bites man story. Trump has tweeted neo-Nazi propaganda in the past. It`s the news cycle. It goes away. And it pobably would have. There has frankly been a lot of other news in the headlines recently, some quite favorable to Trump, and he cannot keep himself from talking about this again and again and dragging Disney into it.
HAYES: Well, and I think it`s also gone in to this -- I mean, on day six of this, right. So, there`s two issues going on here. There this sort of playing digital footsy with neo-Nazis, OK, the Nazi frogs as I call them. These are the people that show up with their frog avatars, tweeting about Jews.
RAMPELL: I`ve heard from them, yes.
HAYES: Right. Yes, well, we all have at this point. But there`s also this deep question of like you are now -- we are one degree removed from virulent anti-Semitism in a mainstream candidate which is a jarring and I would dare say new thing in American politics.
RAMPELL: I`m not sure we`re one degree removed. I mean, I know he says I love the Jews just like I love the blacks and I love the Mexicans and he likes to say this and he points out that his daughter...
His daughter is Jewish. He has Jewish in-laws at this point as well, and grandchildren are Jewish. But this is -- you know, if this is an accident, that his campaign has tweeted this material out multiple times, it is willful negligence, I would say. They have done this again and again. Clearly the alt-right seized this as a signal. David Duke said there`s no other way one can read this tweet, except as, you know, pointing out that the Jews are controlling everything and it`s deliberately anti-Semitic.
So, you know, I think it`s giving him too much of the benefit of the doubt to say, oh, yeah, this is one degree removed, this was meaningless.
HAYES: Then you have Jared Kushner who is, of course, his son-in-law, who is Ivanka`s husband. Ivanka has converted to judaism. You know, an employee of his own media organization writing an open letter saying, you need to condemn this. And him saying, basically, he`s a great guy and of course he`s not anti-Semitic.
RAMPELL: And he said -- the other interesting thing about all of that was taht Jared Kushner when he responded to this, said my father-in-law has an open heart and I know he loves the Jews and blah, blah, blah, but he said that the campaign was kind of playing fast and loose with Twitter. And kind of implicitly saying there was a mistake was made. I think he said it was careless, his campaign was carelessly tweeting things.
And trump of course subsequently has gone in the opposite direction and has said, no, no, no, this was not careless.
HAYES: And he should have left it up there.
RAMPELL: They should have left it up there.
HAYES: All right, we`ll see if we can get through a full week of the Star of David gate.
Catherine RAmpell, thanks for joining us.
Coming up, Republican frustrated by the FBIs recommendations of no charges for Hillary Clinton decide to investigate the investigators. Didn`t go exactly as planned. That story coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HAYES: All right, thing one tonight, we`ve come to associate the hashtag search feature on Twitter with trending news topics. But there are hashtags for everything, like say, popular children`s movies, such as Disney hit Frozen, the beloved film of the over four crowd, including my 4- year-old daughter.
Here`s what that looked like hashtag looked like recently. Mostly tweets from automated bots talking Elsa and Anna dolls on eBay, sometimes tweets like this one from a Frozen themed party.
But every children`s movie needs a farcical villain. That`s where Donald Trump comes in.
As we told you earlier, the presumptive Republican keeps defending his tweet of a meme, featuring Hillary Clinton, a pile of cash and a six- pointed Star of David. For six days, he has not let it go, if you will.
Last night, Trump kept the controversy alive by tweeting a picture of a Frozen-themed coloring book lamenting "where is the outrage for this Disney book. Is this the Star of David also?" Dishonest media #frozen."
Thing two, what happened to the hashtag #Frozen after that Trump tweet in 60 seconds.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HAYES: Day six of Trump`s Star of David meme controversy. And last night, the presumptive nominee used a children`s coloring book as proof the meme he tweeted out was not anti-Semitic.
"Where is the outrage for this Disney book. Is this the Star of David also? Dishonest media #Frozen."
Twitter being Twitter had a field day of this. Opinions ranging from "Don`t you dare bring Frozen into this." To, "I didn`t think we`d hit the Frozen sticker book phase of the election so soon."
Hillary Clinton to a nod to one of movie`s songs tweeted this in response to Trump`s tweet, "Do you want to build a Straw man?"
Which prompted its own wave of reactions including, "I saw the best minds of a generation destroyed by having to deal with a presidential nominees debating the merits of Frozen iconography."
But perhaps the last word on the matter should go to the voice of Anna herself, actress Kristen Bell. She responded to Trump`s tweet this way, "zip it, Don, get your head out of your ass. We`ve more important things to talk about today. Alton Sterling, Philando Castile."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIAN WILLIAMS, NBC NEWS: NBC`s Lisa Myers tonight on where Whitewater stands.
LISA MYERS, NBC NEWS: The surprise appointment sent shockwaves across the White House and congress and threw the entire six month Whitewater investigation into limbo. Starr, a Reagan Republican, is a former federal appeals judge and served as George Bush`s solicitor general.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: 22 years ago this summer, NBC Nightly News reported on Kenneth Starr`s appointment to the newly reinstituted post of independent counsel, charged with investigating the Clintons` Whitewater scandal.
Now, someone else had been expected to get the job, a lawyer named Robert Fisk, who had been picked by Attorney General Janet Reno earlier that year to start the inquiry into Whitewater, which is a failed real estate deal that lost money for Bill and Hillary Clinton.
After six months, Fisk released a report finding no evidence of wrongdoing by the Clintons. Zilch. And that is when the Clinton scandal industrial complex shifted into gear. Republicans in congress were unsatisfied, insisting Fisk, a Republican, couldn`t be independent because he was appointed by the attorney general who was appointed by Bill Clinton, who was the subject of the probe.
A panel of judges agreed with that logic. And in August 1994, they chose Ken Starr to take over as the new independent counsel.
And over the next six years, Starr`s investigations would take him from Whitewater, which wasn`t going anywhere, to travelgate, which petered out, to filegate, and don`t worry, basically no one outside professional politics even remembers what originally sparked these bogus scandals.
And ultimately through a few more roundabouts and back roads to Monica Lewinsky, which lead to President Clinton`s impeachment for perjury and obstruction of justice. And, let me stress, had nothing whatsoever to do with the original probe into Waterwater where this all started.
That probe wasn`t closed until just before Clinton left office.
After the impeachment hearnigs were long over, Ken Starr had already left the independent counsels office, and just like the initial report six years earlier it came up completely empty, meaning both Clintons were exonerated of wrongdoing for Whitewater.
In totally unrelated news, a week after an eighth congressional committee on Benghazi released its findings still unable to incriminate Hillary Clinton, today the House oversight committee called FBI Director James Comey who actually served as Ken Starr`s deputy back in the 90s to testify about his recommendation not to charge Clinton over her emails.
There were a couple of ways Republicans could have gone with this: they could hammer on the discrepancies between the FBI`s findings and Clinton`s public account of how she handled her emails as Congressman Trey Gowdy tried to do.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. TREY GOWDY, (R) SOUTH CAROLINA: Secretary Clinton said she never sent or received any classified information over her private email, was that true?
JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR: Our investigation found there was classified information sent...
GOWDY: So it was not true?
COMEY: That`s what I said.
GOWDY: Secretary Clinton said, I did not email any classified material to anyone on my email. There is no classified material. Was that true?
COMEY: No, there was classified mAterial email.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Or they could grandstand and make a mess of trying to undermine the witness because they can`t help themselves.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ll be at a couple of cafes where I see folks and meetings and they`re going to ask questions about what took place. Have you seen the Broadway production Hamilton?
COMEY: Not yet. I`m hoping to.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE; I haven`t either, but I understand that it won choreography Tony Award.
The problem I have in explaining to my constituents is what`s come down, it almost looks like a choreography.
My folks think that there`s something fishy about this. I`m not a conspiracy theorist, but there are a lot of questions on how this came down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Still ahead, in the wake of two police shooting deaths in just 48 hours, there are protests happening at this hour around the country. Tonight people gathering in numerous cities. The latest on that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HAYES: So, we`ve been watching these protests happening all over the country tonight after the latest shooting by police of a black man, the second in just two days. Joining me now, Joan Walsh, MSNBC political analyst, national affairs correspondent of The Nation. Back with me Maya Wiley, who is about to become the chair of the (inaudible) complaint review board that oversees the New York City Police, and a former counsel to the Mayor Bill de Blasio here in New York.
Joan, let me start with you on this question. The president talked today about -- just put yourself in the shoes of someone who lost a family member this way. Try to think of it that way, try to be empathetic, try not to get into the usual battle lines.
JOAN WALSH, THE NATION MAGAZINE: That`s right. Red, blue.
HAYES: Yeah, because you see it. I mean knew immediately well what was -- was he complying, did he have a -- you know, all this desire to justify that you see that I actually don`t really understand, frankly.
Do you think the politics of this are moving?
WALSH: I think the politics are moving. I think it was great that Governor Dayton came out today and just flat out said very early in his statement, yes, I think it was racism. Yes, I think he would be alive and this wouldn`t have happened in front of his girlfriend and her daughter if he were white. That was a big progress.
On the other hand it`s sad to me that the president even has to tell us, use your empathy, people, meaning white people, because it has become this thing where I can predict your reaction to a police shooting, more or less by your party, and especially if you support Donald Trump.
So we`re making progress, Black Lives Matter is probably the most vital, potent movement that we`ve seen. I got caught in the demonstration on my way here, and happy to see it. So we`ve made a lot of progress and yet people are not being prosecuted and people are still being killed in cold blood.
HAYES: And yet in the case one of the things that I think complicates the politics, particulaly in the case in both of these men, they were both armed, but they were carrying for the purposes that the people who advocate the most maximum interpretation second rights say they should be able to -- to protect themselves.
In the case of Mr. Castile, legally and with a permit and advising the officer.
WALSH: That he had them.
HAYES: So, my question today is, deafening silence from the NRA.
WILEY: And add to that deeply troubling irony that the NRA actually made the argumentthat black people should be anti-gun control because of the amount of gun violence in black communities.
So this actually stands in a palpable and emotional opposition to that very argument.
HAYES: Right, because they made the argument because -- that the only way you can defend yourself...
WILEY: ...is with a firearm.
HAYES: ...is with a firearm.
And yet of course when a police encounters a firearm, then you are a threat. And these two men have been killed punitively because they were armed.
WILEY: And what`s critically important here is the notion of implicit bias, which we talked about and actually the president referred to in his speech, which is that we have to take into account, as we think about improving policing in this country, the way in which sometimes even unconscious racial stereotypes impact the decisions police officers may make in a split second and how they interpret the information that they are getting.
And it`s deeply troubling. It is also very different how you respond to that kind of problem, that over racism. They`re both important to respond to and cannot be tolerated, but they`re dealt with differently. And I`m proud of the fact that the NYPD has implicit bias training that it`s instituting now.
HAYES: Those NYPD right now out on the streets with protesters who have taken over part of Times Square. There were some arrests.
The thing that I keep thinking about -- and we`re talking about this empathy is that last night, I came home and I saw the video and I didn`t know the outcome, and I was praying, like he was kin, that he would live, like he was kin. I was so, please, tell me this man lived -- and I -- at the same time, it`s like the videos can be dehumanizing and exploitative, but there is power in them, I have to say politically I think at this moment.
WALSH: I think so too. And I have to say that we know that two young children, a 15-year-old boy and a 4-year-old girl have witnessed these, or at least in the case of the video, have seen these men murdered in cold blood. I mean, that -- just watching yesterday the sun crying, just you know, destroyed.
WILEY: And the 4-year-old having to tell her mother that, in fact...
HAYES: I`m here for you.
WILEY: And heard that her father was dead.
HAYES: Right.
Maya Wiley and Joan Walsh.
That is All In for this evening.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. END