Show: ALL IN with CHRIS HAYES Date: June 17, 2016 Guest: Ezra Edelman, Kendall Unruh, Sarah Isgur Flores, Rick Wilson, Fernand Amandi
JOY REID, MSNBC GUEST HOST (voice-over): Tonight on ALL IN --
REP. PAUL RYAN (R-WI), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: It`s divided and I`m not going to tell somebody to go against their conscience.
REID: New life for the Republican rebellion against their leader Donald Trump.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: And now it`s time for somebody else.
REID: Tonight, as Trump rallies in Houston, my exclusive interview with the RNC delegate leading the new anybody but Trump resistance.
Plus, what we know about Elizabeth Warren`s surprise visit to Clinton headquarters.
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D), MASSACHUSETTS: This is fabulous!
REID: Then, the latest from Orlando. And the immigrant family risking it all to mourn their loved one.
And move over, tiny hands pack, the bar for insane Donald Trump ads has just been raised.
ALL IN starts now.
HAYES: Good evening from New York. I`m joy Reid, in for Chris Hayes.
And you are looking at live at the Donald Trump rally just outside of Huston where the presumptive GOP nominee is expected to take the stage shortly.
Now, as that room illustrates Trump still has his passionate base of support. But he`s an increasingly embattled candidate, one now facing a coordinated last-ditch effort to deny him the nomination at the convention.
I`ll speak to the Republican delegate leading that effort shortly.
On the heels of his widely panned response to the Orlando massacre, which included his repeated insinuation that President Obama may sympathize with terrorists, Trump is setting modern records for political toxicity. As "Politico" puts it, his unpopularity without historical peer in the modern era of presidential campaigns.
While Hillary Clinton is relatively unpopular for a presidential nominee, she`s still polling better than Trump, who polls suggest is intensely disliked by a majority of Americans.
Trump today tried to counter a slew of new polls showing Clinton with a clear lead in the general election with this tweet, spotlighting a poll that he`s listed as having taken on June 16th, yesterday, with the words, "Thank you, #Americafirst."
But a couple of problems. First off the poll was actually conducted on May 10th, more than a month ago. And second, the poll actually shows Clinton with a slight lead over Trump, albeit within the margin of error.
Meanwhile, the man ostensibly leading outreach to Congress on Trump`s behalf in one of his earliest endorsers, Representative Duncan Hunter, is now the latest Republican to distance himself from Trump, telling "The Hill," "I am not a surrogate, I can`t speak for anyone else but me. Everyone`s asking me to explain all of these things that he said. Some of these things I don`t know what Donald Trump is thinking."
And House Speaker Paul Ryan, who`s often criticized Trump and only grudgingly endorsed him, told "Meet the Press" he`s not going to try to force any of his fellow Republicans to back the presumptive nominee.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHUCK TODD, MEET THE PRESS: You think it is that members and the House Republican conference, follow your conscience? If you don`t want to support him, don`t do it?
RYAN: Absolutely. The last thing I would do is tell anybody to do something that`s contrary to their conscience. Of course I wouldn`t do that.
Look, believe me, Chuck. I get this, this is a very strange situation. This is a very unique nominee. But I feel as a responsibility, institutionally as speaker of the House, I should not be leading some chasm in the middle of our party. You know what that would do? That would definitely knock us out of the White House.
TODD: It`s already divided.
RYAN: Well, it`s divided and I`m not going to tell somebody to go against their conscience.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: OK. Now, conscience is an operative word there, because a group of Republican delegates is organizing a new effort to stop Trump at the GOP convention next month. And conscience is their organizing principle.
The effort centers around changing the convention rules to include a conscience clause that would allow delegates bound to Trump to vote against him even on the first ballot at the convention. The group gathered 30 interested activist delegates and alternate delegates on a conference call last night to talk through their efforts with a follow-up call for delegates nationwide planned for this Sunday.
"This literally is an anybody but Trump movement," organizer Kendall Unruh told "The Washington Post."
Trump himself dismisses the threat, telling "The Post" that "any such move would not only be totally illegal but also a rebuke of the millions of people who feel so strongly about what I am saying," unquote.
And joining me now is Kendall Unruh, a high school government teacher, Republican delegate from Colorado, member of the rules committee, importantly, who supported Ted Cruz in the primary and is coordinated that stop Trump effort.
All right. Kendall, let`s talk through your plan. In order for it to work, we spoke with one of our favorite experts here at NBC to sort of explain how it works. You need a majority of the 112-member rules committee to go along with your conscience clause that would allow someone to say, I can`t in good conscience or religious reasons vote for Donald Trump.
Do you have the votes?
KENDALL UNRUH, REPUBLICAN DELEGATE: Not only religious but also personal. And I am working daily on getting the votes and I have a very good group of rules committee members. In fact, two called me right before this and they have signed on. But more importantly, even if it doesn`t get the majority vote to pass out of rules committee, I can also file a minority report with a lower threshold of 25 percent.
Let me be very crystal clear and address what Donald Trump is saying that it`s illegal. It`s actually illegal to bind a delegate. There have been two Supreme Court cases and there have been 200 historical precedents that have made that case. And out of 136-year history in the Republican Party, there have actually only been one convention in 1976, Ford/Reagan, where the delegates were truly bound.
For him to say it`s illegal, technically it`s unconstitutional to bind. And the fact that the Supreme Court cases actually have ruled the fact that the state cannot interfere in the private organization and the fact of how they conduct their business. Could you imagine bringing this down to a local level if the state was to be able to dictate how a homeowners board voted, how a board to a soccer league voted? They just simply can`t interfere. So he`s 100 percent wrong on that.
But the rule that I`m going to be sponsoring is not giving the binding to the delegates. I am sponsoring this for a very specific purpose. The delegates already have the constitutional right to be unbound. I am drafting the rules sponsoring the conscience clause where they can opt out of their own free will and free choice for religious or personal reason because there are rule followers in the Republican Party.
This is going after the activists that, when they are being pressured by the delegation chair or the state chairman or an elected official, fill in the blank, it`s giving them the tool, the empowerment, I call it the permission slip for mom at home that they can then literally tangibly hold and it say, honestly I can`t unbind because here`s an RNC rule saying that I can`t.
UNRUH: Like giving them in essence the kryptonite that they need.
REID: Spoken like a true public schoolteacher. They need a permission slip.
I want to go back ask walk you back one second, because my understanding is when you become a delegate to either of the conventions, you actually sign an agreement to be bound by whoever wins that vote in your state. Are you saying that there is no such agreement that delegates actually sign when they become delegates to the convention?
UNRUH: Well, we all sign pledges. I signed a pledge to vote for Ted Cruz. And all of our delegation actually voted for Ted Cruz. And in spite of the false narrative that Donald Trump wove that we weren`t dutifully elected, we actually were dutifully elected.
I actually had to convince thousands of voters to vote for me. I had to go through not one, not two, five elections to get where I`m at. So, the point is I`m actually accountable to my constituents and those who sent me. If I choose to not honor that pledge, which I will be for Ted Cruz, but if I choose to not honor for any reason and I vote a vote of conscience, I`m accountable to them and them only. I`m not accountable to the party, I`m not accountable to my delegation chair. They`re the ones that entrusted me with their vote.
So, that is a discussion that actually a delegate needs to take into consideration if they choose to unbind. And that is how are the people at home that sent me here going to respond? But I can tell you, I hear daily from my constituents who voted to send me here to keep going down the path that I am going down. So I actually have an honor and an obligation to carry the water for them with the vote that they entrusted in me.
REID: Except that for you, Kendall, in your case, you were for Ted Cruz, and I imagine the constituents you talk to are for Ted Cruz. If delegates are from a state that voted for Donald Trump, how would they justify saying their religious or personal convictions are leading them to go against the voters of their state? How would somebody be able to justify that?
UNRUH: That`s a great question. Here comes the schoolteacher part. I`m sorry that for 40 years that we have had curricula that have taught that we are a democracy. We`re actually not a democracy. There`s never one man, one vote. In fact, that`s a good thing, that mob rule, 50 plus one, can`t dictate an outcome, because our Founding Fathers were very clear that there are to be checks and balances in this constitutional republic that they started.
And the system that`s been implemented is a direct reflection of that, that you are entrusting a delegate. We`re not a number, we`re not a robot. We are someone who literally has that entrustment with us to cast a vote how we see fit, reflective of the will of the people.
But let`s just say something did come out that a candidate had done some criminal activity or something that was just morally reprehensible.
UNRUH: The fact that a delegate is carrying a vote, they are entrusted with a person trusting them to use their wisdom and to apply it in a circumstance to where it`s truly unpalatable to cast that vote. That is part of what this constitutional republic is all about.
REID: I`m going to ask you really quickly, we`re out of time, but a quick compound question very briefly. Number one, we`ve heard that Reince Priebus is reaching out to some delegates to sort of poll them, see how many are a part of this. Have you heard from Reince Priebus and has there been any backlash to what you`re trying to do or do you worry about backlash?
UNRUH: Sure, there`s always going to be backlash, any time you go against the party and you stand up for what`s right in principle. And this is truly trying to save the party. We love our party. We`ve worked extraordinarily hard our entire adult lives to create a philosophical, very good conservative party. We simply don`t want Donald Trump as the face of that party.
REID: And have you heard from Reince Priebus?
UNRUH: I have not, but I`ve heard from other elected officials. That just makes me work harder and makes the rest of us work harder. We know we`re right in what we`re doing.
REID: All right. Kendall Unruh, thank you very much. We appreciate your time tonight.
UNRUH: Thank you for the time.
REID: Thank you.
And joining me now are two members of the Never Trump movement, Republican strategist Sara Isgur Flores, former deputy campaign manager for Carly Fiorina, and Republican political consultant and media strategist, Rick Wilson.
Rick, I got to you first. You are the never Trumpiest never Trumpiest that I know of out there, particularly on social media and in real life.
What do you think of what Kendall Unruh just said? Because she essentially said that she feels delegates would put aside even a majority vote for Donald Trump in their delegate district. Isn`t that counter-democratic, small "D"?
RICK WILSON, REPUBLICAN MEDIA STRATEGIST: Well, look, as Kendall rightly pointed out, I really admire the work she`s trying to do here to save the party from the inside. We`re seeing an increasingly erratic and dangerous version of Donald Trump who is going to lead this party over a cliff and is going to lead us into -- not into the Promised Land as Cheeto Jesus but into a political nightmare from which we will not emerge.
So, folks are trying to save this party and save the conservative movement from this guy, and the fact of the matter is you`re not obligated to carry out an illegal order. You`re not obligated to commit suicide as a party or as a political movement by backing a guy who is so obviously unsuitable as president, who is obviously mentally unstable, and who is obviously not running a serious campaign against Hillary Clinton.
If you want to beat Hillary Clinton, you can`t do it with a guy who doesn`t call donors. You can`t do it with a guy who spouts off whatever`s in his mind at any given second. This is a guy who is not running as a qualified Republican candidate. He got 30-some percent of the vote, I`ll grant you that all day long.
But these delegates have to look at the broader picture, they have to look at the survival of the Republican Party, and the fact that Donald Trump is continuing to do everything that Donald Trump does off the top of his head, the spur of the moment, whatever is in his head comes out of his mouth, that`s going to damage the party more than a floor fight over whether these the qualified candidate or not. If those folks vote their conscience and abstain, God bless them, they`ve been the work of preserving the republic.
REID: But, Sarah, there is a possibility there would be more of a floor fight on the convention floor. What about the potential for actual unrest, if supporters of Donald Trump feel robbed and in this case they would be being actually robbed of the nomination that he earned through delegates?
SARAH ISGUR FLORES, FORMER DEP. CAMPAIGN MGR. CARLY FOR PRESIDENT: I think that`s right. I think that it would cause chaos. I`m on team Kendall, God bless the work she`s doing. And I think that rick has it exactly right on why it`s important.
I do think that at this point, even though the whole delegate process is meant to be one of a republic, not a democracy, that it is late to try to upend his nomination at this point. I think we`ve seen groups talk about how feasible it is to have a third-party candidate still in terms of the ballot access. No one has stepped up to do that yet.
I am all in favor of these last-ditch efforts to stop Donald Trump from getting the nomination. I do think it will be devastating for the party when he does. But I think it`s going to be an uphill battle, unfortunately.
REID: Not only that, Rick, apart from the idea of actual potential unrest, maybe even violence at the convention, if you are literally telling delegates who showed up on the floor to vote for Donald Trump, now you don`t have to do it, then the people who voted, millions who voted for Donald Trump, see that happen. What will be the fallout for the Republican Party then?
WILSON: Look, we`re already having a schism in the Republican Party, Joy. There`s already now a -- what is essentially a white nationalist Trump party and a Republican Party which is a conservative limited government constitutional party. They are fracturing right now. He is the chemistry that`s fracturing that formula. He`s causing this rift.
But the fact of the matter is, we`re going to have this fight regardless. Whether it`s on the convention floor or whether it`s after Donald Trump destroys our hopes of holding -- taking the White House and destroys our hopes of holding the Senate. We`re going to be in a situation where no matter what happens, we`re going to have to face up to the fact that Donald Trump has activated a part of the Republican base that is very enthusiastic about him, submerged in a talk radio cloud where they believe he`s going to build a wall, he`s going to shut off all the trade from international trade, he`s going to bomb the oil, he`s going to torture people and kill terrorist families, they believe all that.
REID: But, Rick, that`s your base. But, Rick, they believe all that in part because the conservative establishment, media and otherwise, has been telling them that for 30 years. Donald Trump didn`t invent these ideas. Aren`t you essentially dissing a large part of the Republican base that wasn`t created by Donald Trump, he`s just taking advantage of it?
WILSON: Listen, Donald Trump, though, is a unique selling proposition in this equation. No one else could come along with the 20 years of reality TV stardom, the private jet, the Trumpian swagger they found so appealing, they wanted to rub up against the alpha male Donald Trump, all this stuff. None of that was available or about any other candidate.
And frankly, he activated a very narrow part of the base, a very narrow part of the overall American electorate, he got to about 33 percent. The remainder of the Republican Party was looking for another option. They were looking for a constitutional conservative. Whether it was Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio or Rand Paul or Jeb Bush or whoever else in the field, they were looking for another option.
REID: Really quickly, Sarah, we have to wrap.
FLORES: If John McCain had won the presidency in 2008, Donald Trump would have won the nomination for the Democratic Party this year.
REID: I doubt that.
FORES: He`s not a Republican, he`s an entertainer. He`s sui generis --
FLORES: The conversation will continue on November 9, as far as the future of the party.
REID: That`s an interesting hypothetical, but he`s your guy. He`s the Republican nominee.
Sarah Isgur Flores and Rick Wilson, thank you both. Appreciate it.
And still ahead, we will keep an eye on that live Trump rally happening now in Texas. Now, if he responds to the reporting that you just heard, we will make sure to bring that to you live.
Plus, Chris Hayes sat down with the director of the new series "O.J.: Made in America", telling the story in an entirely new way.
But, first, Bernie Sanders stays in as Democrats turn their focus on the general election. At this point, does Sanders have any leverage at all? We`ll talk about that in about two minutes.
REID: Senator Bernie Sanders will return to Washington to cast votes on gun measures on Monday, his first vote since the primary season ended. His first vote since the non-suspension of his campaign speech that he gave last night. More on that in a moment.
Today, Senator Elizabeth Warren visited the headquarters of the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, Hillary Clinton, in Brooklyn.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WARREN: This is fabulous!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Warren reportedly was there to deliver a pep talk to the staff. According to a source speaking to NBC News, Senator Warren said, quote, "Don`t screw this up," which prompted this enthusiast to tweet, "So excited that Warren is with us, we will not f it up."
The contrast between Senator Warren and Senator Bernie Sanders last night could not be more stark. Warren bursting into Clinton campaign headquarters in Brooklyn, Sanders delivering a retro video manifesto.
By not yet fully conceding, Sanders appears to want to hold on to leverage he might have already lost. According to the Sanders campaign, last night`s live stream was watched by a maximum of 104,000 people at one time, while 218,000 total viewers tuned in at some point during the stream. Not a bad number at all, but not necessarily a revolution.
Sanders did not suspend his campaign or endorse Clinton. But he did say the next political task is to defeat Trump and he would personally begin his role in that shortly.
Joining me now is Fernand Amandi, radio talk show host and Democratic pollster.
All right. Fernand, my friend, let`s talk about leverage. When do you think Bernie Sanders had the maximum leverage during this campaign?
FERNAND AMANDI, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: I think it was right after he won the Michigan primary. And a lot of folks said that wasn`t going to happen, he shocked the political world and upset a lot of pollsters, including myself, who didn`t really see that win coming. And I think that was his maximum moment.
But, Joy, all of that leverage dissipated the day after he got blown out in California and Elizabeth Warren came out and basically said on this network, MSNBC, look, I`m with her. You`ve started to see a drumbeat of other folks that were with him now saying, I`m also with her.
So I think Bernie Sanders, with every passing day and hour, is further marginalizing and running the risk of alienating many of the Sandernistas who got behind his effort, because right now, the clear and present danger to their hopes is not Hillary Clinton, it`s Donald Trump.
REID: Well, I mean, the question is, you know, from a strategic point of view, we had that split screen where you had today Elizabeth Warren bounding into the Clinton office, a similar brand to Bernie Sanders. Then last night the sort of weird ending, right?
So, he`s in this individual grow where he`s telling his supporters, we`re going to go on. But there`s a whole other thing happening in the Democratic Party. They`re on to guns. They`ve moved on to Donald Trump, they`ve moved on to Elizabeth Warren, they`re thinking about veeps.
Does Bernie Sanders have any way of getting back into the conversation?
AMANDI: Well, it`s very difficult to do so. I think to the extent he can it`s going to be in leveraging and negotiating the little political capital he has left to try and influence the Democratic Party platform and to the extent he wants did use the capital that his revolution has put together, work and target maybe races around the country, look at congressional districts or Senate seats that Democrats may not traditionally compete in, get the Sanders machine behind that. That is where I think you can be effective.
But in terms of the national conversation, Joy, I think not only has the page turned, the party has turned, the country has turned. I think the D.C. primary made that crystal clear. He got blown out in that contest that no one expected him to stay in for as well.
REID: Bernie Sanders is coming back to vote on the gun measure. He did tweet about the 15-hour filibuster that Democrats mounted. Do you think that Sanders missed an opportunity there? He was in Vermont, because he does need to close out his campaign. Do you think he missed an opportunity not being part of that filibuster?
AMANDI: Oh, no question. I mean, that filibuster is going to go down in history and on an issue that was in his face, an opportunity to really bridge the Sanders wing of the party with the now establishment, centrist wing. You saw Senator Murphy do so heroically. I thought it was a total missed opportunity.
And maybe it shows you Bernie`s political instincts, while smart early on, they seem to be fading and waning with the passing days.
REID: Yes, we will continue to watch what he does. He says he`s taking to it the convention, so it will be very interesting to see how he closes it out.
Fernand Amandi, thank you very much. Appreciate it.
AMANDI: Thank you, Joy.
REID: All right. And coming up, something we`re comfortable is saying is the most bizarre thing you`re going to see all day. Stay tuned for that.
REID: There are still so many questions about why Omar Mateen murdered 49 people and wounded 53 others at the Pulse nightclub before being killed by police. But we`re learning more about Mateen`s wife Noor Zahi Salman who has told authorities she once drove her husband to the chub to scope it out.
According to a relative of Salman`s, as well as a federal law enforcement official, Mateen and his wife exchanged text messages at some point during the attack in the early hours of Sunday morning. "Where are you?" Salman asked her husband. His reply, "Do you see what`s happening?" "No," she said, apparently having no idea what he meant.
His final message, "I love you, babe."
Salman told authorities she had recently gone with her husband to purchase ammunition. But now it turns out, according to federal officials, Mateen used a different caliber of ammunition in the attack.
In an interview with NBC News, a relative insisted Salman is completely innocent, calling Mateen a monster and claiming Salman had been, quote, "beaten and battered" by him. That echoes allegations by Mateen`s first wife he physically abused her on multiple occasions.
We also learned today the Pulse nightclub was equipped with a video surveillance system which the FBI is now reviewing and will not be releasing to the public.
Today, more funerals were held in Orlando for the individuals who were murdered in last week`s attack. Many of the victims were immigrants to the U.S. and are being taken back to their home countries to be laid to rest. For family members who are undocumented, however, they`re risking everything just to be there -- an interview with one of those families next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRENDA MARIE GONZALEZ, NIECE OF ORLANDO VICTIM: He was an undocumented immigrant. And he didn`t come here to judge anyone. He didn`t come here to fight with anybody. He just wanted a normal American dream life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Brenda Marie Gonzalez lost her uncle, 25-year-old Juan Chavez Martinez, in the massacre last weekend at the Pulse nightclub in Orlando.
Chavez Martinez was an undocumented immigrant from Mexico who worked as a housekeeping supervisor for a hospitality company. Co-workers describing him to the Orlando Sentinel as an excellent boss and person universally loved.
Now his family wants to take him back to Mexico to be laid to rest, but there`s one big problem -- Juan`s brother, Brenda`s dad, is also an undocumented immigrant living in Florida. And if he leaves this country to attend the funeral, he won`t be able to come back
Telemundo correspondent spoke with Rojelio Moratagle (ph) spoke with Brenda Marie Gonzalez last night at a vigil for her uncle Juan. And she described the excruciating choice her father now faces on top of his grief.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GONZALEZ: For him to go through this knowing what his brother went through -- the least we can do is just let him go see his family that he hasn`t seen in years and let him be part of his funeral. We don`t want him -- it`s going to break up the family if he does go. He`s not going to be able to come back. So, it`s going to break it up and we don`t want that. That`s why -- that`s why we want him to get a passport to come, to go and come back to us.
Obviously everyone`s here works, go to school here, and he works here also to provide for the kids and my mom. And they`ve been through so much already that they shouldn`t worry about anything other than taking him and burying him and coming back home.
Our hearts break for -- our hearts are just breaking and they continue to break. And I think forever they`re going to break. They`re just -- my heart is -- I feel like it`s a dream, I can`t believe this. We don`t want him to leave our family at all. We don`t want him to leave our family. We don`t want him to go and not come back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: I`m joined now by Ida Eskamant, a development officer for Equality Florida who has been working closely with the families affected by the attack last weekend.
Ida, you heard the pain there in that family member. On top of the loss of a family member, then worrying if her dad goes home to the funeral, he won`t be able to come back. How many stories like this are we dealing with on top of the massacre in Orlando?
IDA ESKAMANTI, EQUALITY FLORIDA: Yeah,, I first like to begin that our hearts and prayers are with this family and all the families that have suffered such a great loss here in Orlando.
You know, Orlando is an international community. And so with that comes very unique challenges when it comes to victim assistance in these types of mass shootings. And we have seen quite a few instances of very unique challenges with the Latino community. And within this community, it`s important to recognize that this is a very marginalized group of people already. They face many socioeconomic challenges. They face fear and intimidation from government authorities.
And so on top of the heartbreak that this massacre has caused this community, we also have these unique challenges when it comes to victim`s assistance.
REID: And there is a kind of federal parole, my understanding is, that could be available to families like this. Can you talk about that? And do you know if this particular family is going to be able to avail themselves of it?
ESKAMANTI: What I can tell you, the program that you`re referring to is called u-visas, and these are visas available to victims of crime who cooperate with authorities. And currently on the ground here in Orlando we`re working to ensure that these families have access to these visas. And generally speaking, as victims, even if they`re undocumented, they have rights to a full list of state and federal funding as well as foundation funding to help support them during this time.
REID: And the families that were -- you know, that lost loved ones in the Orlando nightclub massacre, they included families from Cuba, the Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico. Talk about some of the unique challenges there. Because I know there was one family in particular that had to have a visa expedited to get here from Cuba because we`re not quite open with that country.
ESKAMANTI: Yes, exactly. And I think that`s important to note. There`s - - with this community, I mean, we can`t even put the Latino community in one huge bucket. Within them, there`s so many unique challenges. So, it`s case-by-case. It`s based on the individual. It`s based on the family,. It`s based on the country. And so we`ve had situations where a mother needs a visa to come to the funeral. We`ve had a situation where remains need to be transported to another country.
And so we`ve been coordinating with an in-kind network of corporations that have volunteered to help during this time of crisis as well as coordinating on the ground with our Latino partner organizations to ensure that these folks have the resources they need and that they know they have the right to these resources.
REID: And do you know whether or not this family member would be able to petition to come back if he were to go to the funeral?
ESKAMANTI: I cannot speak for this specific case. I`m an advocate in this work. And if you` had asked me a week ago if I would know this much about victim assistance, I wouldn`t have believed it. And so we on the ground in Orlando are working in corporation with our partners in the local, state and federal government.
At Equality Florida we`re committed to the LGBTQ community, and particularly communities of color within this community. And so we`re doing everything we can to ensure they know their rights and they can have access.
And during this heart-wrenching time, we`re doing what we can to ensure that we focus on the victims and their families and survivors and make sure they don`t get trapped in a bureaucratic mess.
REID: Ida Eskamanti, thank you so for being here. I really appreciate it.
ESKAMANTI: Thank you.
And still to come, Chris Hayes did an in-depth interview with the director of "OJ: Made in America" How the story isn`t just about one man, but an entire country. That interview just ahead.
REID: The accusation that Donald Trump has small hands dates back to the 1980s when Spy magazine dubbed him a short-fingered vulgarian. And he`s been forced to address it several times in this campaign.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I mean, people were writing, how are Mr. Trump`s hands? My hands are fine. You know, my hands are normal. Slightly large, actually. In fact, I buy slightly smaller than large glove, okay?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: But now a PAC titled Americans Against Insecure Billionaires With Tiny Hands is calling for proof in this new TV ad.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENITIFIED FEMALE: If the White House phone rings at 3:00 a.m., will his little hands even pick up the receiver?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How can he create jobs when his hands are too small to shake on the deal?
UNIDENITFIED MALE: When he decides to launch his nuclear war will his stubby fingers be able to push the button all the way down?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: America deserves his hand measurements.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s time our country learned every inch of the truth, so we`ve launched Americans Against Insecure Billionaires With Tiny Hands PAC.
UNIDENITIFIED MALE: Go to DonaldTrumpHasTinyHands.com to sign our petition.
ANNOUNCER: Together, we can learn if Donald Trump can truly handle being commander-in-chief.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Our eagle-eyed viewers may recognize that ad. The PAC made a small buy on this network in the washington area earlier this week. But if you thought that was the craziest satirical ad this week, oh no. we`ll show you the political video featuring this bizarre nightmare creature in just 60 seconds.
REID: We now present to you the most bizarre political video this week, a satire viewed more than 2 million times on YouTube since Wednesday.
That video was created by a California-based visual artist who goes by Mike Diva. He told Slate, "the idea was to seem obnoxiously pro-Trump in a style that directly conflicts with anything you or his supporters would want to be associated with." Will it?
You be the judge. And leave you with this magical Trumposaurus.
REID: Tonight, there are formal murder charges for the man suspected of killing a British politician, shooting and stabbing Jo Cox on the street in broad daylight.
There`s also new evidence tonight tying that suspect with Neo-Nazis here in the United States.
NBC`s Kelly Cobiella has the latest from London -- Kelly.
KELLY COBIELLA, MSNBC: Joy, officially police here have not released a motive. They said tonight they`re still questioning the suspect, a man who lived alone in the town where Jo Cox was killed and allegedly had ties to a U.S. Neo-Nazi group.
COBIELLA: Tonight, possible new clues behind the deadly ambush of British member of parliament Jo Cox. Police investigating whether the reported suspect, 52-year-old Tommy Mair, had links to right-wing extremists. These documents uncovered by a watchdog that tracks hate groups, allegedly tying Mair to the U.S.-based Neo-Nazi organization The National Alliance.
RICHARD COHEN, PRESIDENT, SOUTHERN POVERTY LAW CENTER: We have documentary proof of his connections with the National Alliance between 1999 and 2003.
COBIELLA: Like this receipt for books, including one on how to make a gun. In a country where gun laws are strict and gun violence rare, witnesses said the weapon could have been homemade.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Probably a makeshift gun...
COBIELLA: And new clues to the suspect`s motive may tie into a historic vote next week about whether Britain will break away from europe. The suspect reportedly yelled "Britain first," a rallying cry for anti- immigrant groups who want to leave the EU. Jo Cox wanted to stay.
JO COX, BRITISH MP: Our communities have been deeply enhanced by immigration.
COBIELLA: The high-stakes vote critical for the U.S. too. If Britain leaves, a domino effect could send Americans` 401(k)s plumping.
WILFRED FROST, ANALYST: The stock market impact would be immediate and significant, much more so than an economic one.
COBIELLA: Tonight, both sides here are suspending their campaigns while a stunned nation mourns.
Kelly Cobiella, NBC News, London.
COBIELLA: The vote is next Thursday, just six days away now. The latest opinion polls taken before Jo Cox`s death showed the leave side edging ahead.
And, Joy, just one more note about the suspect, a neighbor said he voiced concerns about his own mental health in the past. Police said that he was examined by medical professionals and found fit to be arrested and fit to be questioned -- Joy.
REID: That`s Kelly Cobiella reporting from London.
And up next, the director of the new masterful documentary series on O.J. Simpson that has everyone talking. Stick around.
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UNIDENITIFIED MALE: I believe he`s turning off. I can`t say for sure, but I think that`s sunset. Let`s just wait and see.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is. Yeah, it is.
UNIDENITIFIED MALE: Well, I think that might be Wilshire Boulevard he`s getting off of.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, let see, it`s either Sunset or wwilshire. Let`s - when he gets up to the corner, I`ll be able to tell you. No, I think that`s sunset.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, I do too.
UNIDENITIFIED MALE: Yeah, I think you`re right.
UNIDENITIFIED MALE: Look at the people. Look at the people.
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REID: At this very minute, 22 years ago tonight, O.J. Simpson was in the back of a White Ford Bronco while his long-time friend Al Cowlings was behind the wheel. For the next two hours, they`d lead police on the most famous car chase in American history. 95 million people watched the chase on television that night, including on NBC, which ran game five of the NBA finals in a split screen with the chase.
The trial of O.J. Simpson for the murder of his ex-wife NicoleBrown Simpson and her friend Ron Goldman was billed as the trial of the century, but it and the not guilty verdict exposed a deep racial divide in this country.
Earlier this year, many in the country were also transfixed by the FX miniseries "The People vs O.J. Simpson" which was cable`s most-watched new show of 2016.
Now, if you`re thinking to yourself that after the popularity of that series there was no way people would have a desire to watch any more about O.J. this year, then you haven`t seen the amazing new documentary by director Ezra Edelman.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (inaudible) murderer!
O.J. SIMPSON, FORMER NFL RUNNINGBACK: It`s easy to celebrate. It`s easy to be fun when everybody`s winning.
You`ve got a tragedy in your life, you can really write an interesting autobiography.
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REID: "O.J. Simpson: Made in America" is a five-part documentary series that looks at one of the most extraordinary falls from grace in modern history.
Chris Hayes sat down with Ezra Edelman and began by asking him what it was like to devoting nearly eight hours to O.J. Simpson.
EZRA EDELMAN, FILMMAKER: This story is befitting of that length. I mean, there is that much in terms of his life, the story of L.A., the criminal justice system. For you to fully understand what happened in 1994 and `95, I feel like you`ve got to go that deep.
CHRIS HAYES, HOST, ALL IN: Did you know that when the project started? Was the scope of it apparent to you, or was this something where you`re doing the work on it, you were finding all this footage, discovering all these things, and it extended and extended?
EDELMAN: Well, the concept actually started -- I was approached because I don`t think any person in their right mind would actually want to take this on in this way. And the initial concept was five hours for TV. And if that had not been the initial thing, I would have said no, because frankly, so many people have tried to do or told stories about the trial and if you have two hours to do it what are you going to do? When there`s an expectation that you have to tell a story about those events?
HAYES: How do you make -- how do you add to the story?
EDELMAN: Correct. And the answer is, you can`t. And unless you have O.J. himself talking about it in a different way.
And so for me, that initial concept, that canvas that was being offered, it told me, oh, I can go backwards. I can go and tell the history. I can`t go and tell this story about the LAPD and the black community in Los Angeles. I can examine O.J.`s rise to fame as a football star and as at commercial pitchman and really parse his racial identity.
And by the way, all these things are necessary to understand just how crazy the trial was.
HAYES: It`s like the experience of watching it is, it`s like you lay the trains on these different tracks and then we just set them off. So just the LAPD cop stuff was mind-blowing, to me. There are things in there -- I mean, I have read a lot about the Watts riots and I obviously knew about Rodney King. But Julia Love (ph), a woman shot and killed by LAPD and there was essentially no punishment.
EDELMAN: That`s correct.
HAYES: You embed in the mind of the viewer what it would be like, a little bit I think, to be -- how you might think about the LAPD if you were a black Angelino (ph) and you walked into that trial room.
EDELMAN: And I think what`s important about that is that, you know, as you know the trial was so divisive. And you know people lining up, white/black, that -- sort of -- and it really was simplified that if you were black, you thought he was innocent. And if you were white, you believed he was guilty. And then you had these clips when the verdict was read of black people celebrating and white people crying, or white people angry at black people celebrating.
And then there`s this sense of, well, I didn`t understand, why were black people cheering a murderer? The person that we believed to be a murderer? And for me it`s like, well, that`s not that confusing. If you just understand the history, if you understand what has been happening in this city for the past 50 years, maybe you`d be able to empathize.
And the only way you can do that is to go on this journey.
HAYES: There is this penny drop moment, where you`ve got -- there`s this cop starts showing up in the interviews. And you do all these interviews. And this cop starts showing up and he`s there saying very kind of reactionary white cop stuff about black Angelinos and crime. And you`re kind of thinking, OK, well, this is interesting.
And then you get to the point, where it`s like, we got to O.J.`s house, you`re like, oh that guy was -- he wasn`t even Furman that we know about. There`s another guy who has these views. That, to me, was like a real -- I understood in this moment in a way I hadn`t before what it must have felt like to interpret this through that prism.
EDELMAN: Well, then we did our job, because I think the other thing is this -- you know, in essence this is oral history. And you have all these characters who essentially adopt the landscape of Los Angeles. You know, some live in, you know, the West Side, some live in South L.A.
And the way that we were telling this story I really felt that they had to take you on this journey through this history. And all of them have some role themselves in the O.J. universe, vortex. And you don`t really realize that until you get to that part of the story.
HAYES: You`ve got really incredible parents. Your mom is a long-time civil rights activist, defender of children. Your father, a law professor, famously resigned from the Clinton administration over welfare reform.
One of the things that struck me as I watched this was a sense of eternal recurrence. There was a little bit of this. It was tough in some ways, because it felt like, man, all this has been written before, and now here we are 20 years later, we have Black Lives Matter, and we have footage of police violence -- and did you come away working on this project, some thoughts about progress, about what progress has been made?
EDELMAN: Sure. But I don`t know that a lot has been made.
I mean, I do think that -- and I think you hit the nail right on the head as far as when you watch this film, you immediately go to this place of thinking about the cyclical nature of history. And then the fact that we spent so much time -- and generationally, I don`t know exactly how old you are. I`m 41. So, I was in high school when Rodney King happened. And that was -- that was an awakening, right. And then there`s the riots. And in some ways, that`s a -- that`s one of those times where your innocence gets ruined. You`re, like, oh this happened. And this happens? I didn`t realize this.
But then you realize when you start thinking about this, well this happened 27 years before. You know, Watts exploded in violence.
And in terms of when we decide as a culture...
HAYES: Over the same stuff.
EDELMAN: Over the same stuff. And, you know, when we perk up and when we decide to pay attention and discuss, you know, when -- but does it change? And I think the last two years shows that nothing has really changed.
Having said that, I do think L.A. -- in L.A. there has been some progress within the police department, that`s undeniable. But then when you look at all the stuff that`s happened, when you look at the stuff that`s been happening in Chicago for the past couple of years, you do question whether we have any progress.
HAYES: Ezra Edelman, "O.J.: Made in America," do whatever you can to see this. Thanks so much.
EDELMAN: Appreciate it.
REID: And that is All In for this evening. Catch me tomorrow morning on my show, A.M. Joy where I`ll have an exclusive interview with former Florida governor Charlie Crist that`s 10:00 a.m. So don`t miss it.
The Rachel Maddow Show starts right now. Good evening, Rachel, and TGIF.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. END