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All In With Chris Hayes, Transcript 5/4/2016

Guests: Mickey Edwards, Molly Ball, Ben Howe, Jonathan Chait, Dana Milbank, David Brock

Show: ALL IN with CHRIS HAYES Date: May 4, 2016 Guest: Mickey Edwards, Molly Ball, Ben Howe, Jonathan Chait, Dana Milbank, David Brock


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tonight on "All in".

GOV. JOHN KASICH, (R) OHIO: I suspend my campaign today.

SEN. TED CRUZ, (R) TEXAS: We are suspending our campaign.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then there was one.

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We`re going to win big league, believe me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But will the GOP unite behind the most disliked nominee in history?

TRUMP: There`s some people that I almost don`t want their endorsement, Republicans.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m joined by one prominent conservative who now says, "I`m with her."

Then Clinton`s problem as she looks towards the general.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Plus, the great big lie that doomed Ted Cruz`s campaign.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And total pundit fail. I`ll speak with a columnist who vowed to literally eat his words if Trump won the primary .

TRUMP: I didn`t even know why the hell I`m here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: .. when "All In" starts right now.


CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST: Good evening from New York, I`m Chris Hayes and tonight it is all over. Literally in one sense perhaps metaphorically in another. After starting with a crowded field of 17 candidates including current and former governors and several sitting senators hailed as the best group of GOP presidential hopefuls in a generation at least the Republican Party has effectively chosen its nominee for the office of the president of the United States of America.

A tabloid friendly, real estate mogul and reality star who`s been married three times, filed for four chapter 11 bankruptcies, the man who denigrates women, Muslims, Hispanics, declines to denounce the KKK and first launched his political career by obsessively promoting a paranoid conspiracy theory that the nation`s first black president was a secret Kenyan. A man who as some of the most prominent members of his own party have said shows almost no interest in nor qualifications for addressing the high stake policy questions confronting the country and the next president. That`s right. Donald J. Trump is now the presumptive nominee of one of this country`s two major political parties, an outcome completely and entirely without historical precedent.

Late today, Trump`s one remaining opponent, John Kasich, officially quit the race, sounding a spiritual note in his remarks.


KASICH: I have always said that the Lord has a purpose for me as he has for everyone and as I suspend my campaign today, I have renewed faith, deeper faith that the Lord will show me the way forward.


HAYES: Kasich who only won his home state of Ohio has trailed in fourth place in the delegate count behind Marco Rubio who dropped out two months ago.

And after Ted Cruz suspended his campaign yesterday following a crushing defeat in Indiana, Kasich`s withdrawal was practically a formality and now, yes now, begins the process of turning Donald Trump into the Republican`s official standard bearer with a full general election campaign machinery behind him.

In a phone interview on "Today" show this morning, Trump didn`t sound too concerned about healing the wounds inflicted in the primaries.


TRUMP: The party will come together. I don`t think it`s imperative that the entire party to come together. I don`t want everybody. I don`t even want certain people that were extraordinarily nasty. Let them go their own way. Let them wait eight years.


HAYES: Trump said today he`s going to start fundraising for the Republican Party as soon as next week. He says he`s assembling a committee that will include Ben Carson to identify his pick for vice president, decision he`s expecting to announce in July.

He`s already giving interviewers to "New York Times" about what he`ll do in his first 100 days in office. In just a few weeks, some time after being formally nominated at the convention, Donald Trump will start receiving classified intelligence briefings. Let that sink in for a moment.

Now that Trump is taking the helm of the GOP, many of his most vocal critics with the most principled objections are falling in line.

Former presidential candidate, Bobby Jindal, who once dedicated an entire campaign speech to bashing Trump, calling him a carnival act and then unstable narcissists, now plans to support him.

Former George W. Bush Press Secretary, Ari Fleischer who`s been sounding the Trump alarm since last summer tweeted last night, "There`s a lot about Donald Trump I don`t like but I`ll vote for Trump over Hillary any day."

And now the Club for Growth, the conservative group that spent millions trying to stop trump and warned (inaudible) Republicans that backing Trump could cost them the group support, now they`re giving conservatives a pass for jumping on the bandwagon.

For the sake of party unity and their general election prospects, a lot of Republicans intend to forget all that`s been said and done over the past year and beyond. Unfortunately for them, many of Trump`s greatest hits survive on tape.


TRUMP: You are not allowed to be a president if you`re not born in this country. He may not have been born in this country. And I`ll tell you what. Three weeks ago, I thought he was born in this country, right now, I have some real doubts.

When Mexico sends its people, they`re not sending their best. They`re bringing drugs, they`re brining crime, they`re rapists, and some, I assume, are good people.

So you could see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her wherever.

Knock the crap out of him, would you? OK. Just knock the hell. I promise you, I will pay for the legal fees.

I don`t know anything about David Duke, OK? I don`t know anything about what you`re even talking about with white supremacy or white supremacist.


HAYES: White supremacy. What is white supremacy? Statements like those cut into 30 second ads and burned into consciousness of millions of voters, are now hanging over the heads of Republicans running for office all over this country.

Well, let`s going to see how they`ll handle it. A Spokesperson for Senator Kelly Ayotte running for reelection in New Hampshire said today, "Kelly plans to support the nominee." He later adding, "As a candidate herself, she hasn`t and isn`t planning to endorse anyone in this cycle." Senator Susan Collins of Maine, a moderate Republican up for reelection, said in a radio interview that Trump has his work cut out for him.


SEN. SUSAN COLLINS, (R) MAINE: If he`s going to build that wall that he keeps talking about, he`s going to have to mend a lot of fences. He`s going to have to stop with the gratuitous personal insults. I have always supported the Republican nominee for president and I would expect that I would do so this year. But I do want to see what Donald Trump does from here on out.


HAYES: At least one of the most unsavory aspects of Trump`s candidacy is not going away anytime soon. And on his radio show today, former KKK Grand Wizard, David Duke celebrated Trump`s big victories of triumph for white nationalist.


DAVID DUKE, FMR. KKK GRAND WIZZARD: And even though Trump is not explicitly talking about European Americans, he`s implicitly talking about the interests of European Americans.

And I think these Jewish extremists have made a terribly crazy miscalculation because all they`re really going to be doing by doing a "Never Trump" movement is exposing their alien, anti-American, anti- American majority position.


HAYES: I`m joined now by a Mickey Edwards, a former Republican Congressman from Oklahoma, now, the Vice President of the Aspen Institute, one of the founding trustees of the Heritage Foundation, if I`m not mistaken, if your bio is correct.


HAYES: Well, in the Great War I guess between the -- and I`m quoting David Duke here, "the Jewish extremists who have declared Never Trump and the folks who have anti-American values and don`t prioritize the views of European Americans versed the triumphant ascendant Trump wing of the party." Where do you stand, sir?

EDWARDS: Well, I guess I`m one of those Jewish extremists. Well, I think anybody who says that they`re going to support Donald Trump after what they have seen of who he is, after they have themselves criticized him for real reasons and now they say they`re going to support him, and it`s indefensible. And I think that if they support him and if he wins, they`re just going to have a lot to answer for.

HAYES: What do you feel like you are watching happen? I mean, I got to imagine that some of these folks you know personally perhaps you worked with you understand the way that the pressures of politics operate, people are part of a party, and part of being in that party is supporting the nominee. Are you surprised? Are you disappointed? Are you not surprised?

EDWARDS: I`m a little surprised. I`m extremely disappointed. I`m actually very offended. I, you know, I was a Republican, I am a Republican, I was a Republican leader in Congress, Chairman of the Policy Committee. But I was always an American first.

You know, Chris, this is about America. This is not about your party. It`s not about your private club. It`s about what`s good for the United States of America. It`s about sticking with our constitution. It`s sticking with our values, of being, you know, not just a great country but an exceptional country that has values, that mean something, that cause people to come to this country not to try to -- where we turn around and try to keep them out of the country.

So, we`re turning our back and it`s -- I`m very concerned about Trump. I`m very concerned about the thousands of people who came to those rallies and cheered when he told lies, cheered when he said he was going to build walls to keep people out and he was going to keep entire religions out.

You know, I`m really worried about what that says about America and where we are right now.

HAYES: You know, the thing I`ve been pondering since last night is how ordinary will this election be and by that I mean that -- and I think we can all say that the primary has been not ordinary. It`s been anomalies and unprecedented in every way.


HAYES: And the question becomes -- part of this I think will be the behavior of the Republican Party. Does the Republican Party now act around Donald Trump as if they have a "normal nominee". Are they going to act towards Trump that way they would have -- towards Romney and McCain or will we see major parts of the party withhold support or distant from (ph) Donald Trump?

EDWARDS: Well, I think a lot of people running for election to the House or the Senate are probably going to be very, very busy with their own campaigns and they would love Trump, but they just don`t have time to help him. But I don`t think that`s going to be the case with all of them.

And I was really bothered when Reince Priebus, Chairman of the Republican Party says it`s time now for us all to unite behind Donald Trump. No, it`s not. It`s time for us to unite behind what`s best for America. And if that means losing this presidential election so that the party doesn`t lose its values and its reputation and credibility, you know, then you don`t support Donald Trump. You say, you`re on your own. You won this by going against, you know, all the things that we, you know, believed in and good luck. And if you don`t win, you know, we`ll get somebody else next time.

HAYES: Can I ask you, Congressman, if you`re going to vote in the fall.

EDWARDS: I assume I`m going to vote. I usually vote.

HAYES: And my sense is that you will vote for someone other than Donald Trump.

EDWARDS: I, you know, I would not vote for Donald Trump if he were the only candidate running. You know, Chris, there`s no way. I have to live with myself. I have to look in the mirror. I have to explain to my family, to my children, to my grandchildren, you know, if I supported somebody like Donald Trump and I`m just not going to do that.

HAYES: All right. Mickey Edwards, former Congressman, great pleasure to have you tonight. Thanks very much. Appreciate it.

EDWARDS: Thank you, Chris.

HAYES: Joining me now, MSNBC National Correspondent, Joy Reid and Molly Ball, Politics Correspondent for "The Atlantic".

And Molly, you`ve been doing great reporting sort of about how institutionally the party ended up at this moment and just for a moment, just for folks, we`ve -- it`s easy get -- how unprecedented, I mean, how new is the terrain that we have entered in the last 24 hours?

MOLLY BALL, "THE ATLANTIC" POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: It feels very new to everyone involved. I mean look, I wasn`t around in say 1964, but I talked to a lot of people who were and it doesn`t feel like d‚j… vu. There`s so much apocalyptic rhetoric in politics, right?

Every single campaign someone`s telling you that if their opponent is elected, the world`s going to come to an end. So, it`s easy to become numb to it. It`s easy to see at all as phony when, you know, primary competitors say those things to each other and then the next day, they`re holding hands and singing kumbaya. This isn`t like that. The revulsion that large flaws of the sort of conservative intelligence, you have people like Mickey Edwards feels towards Donald Trump, it goes much further then, well, he wasn`t my guy in the primary, but .

HAYES: Right.

BALL: . you know, now, we suck it up and come together, because there`s this bigger agenda. The problem is there isn`t that bigger agenda. And for people who perhaps naively thought that the Republican Party was a vessel for conservative ideas, it feels like that`s gone out the window and what`s the point anymore.

HAYES: Joy, what`s your reaction to this? I mean, there`s something between -- I got to say, I`m stunned. I have really been -- content isn`t the right word, but I working through this .


HAYES: . intellectually about this thing having happened, because it really is. It`s not -- there is no precedent for it in recent memory. There`s nothing really like yet. And Barry Goldwater, when he was nominated was a sitting U.S. senator.

REID: That`s right.

HAYES: They guy was a -- you know, he was viewed as an extremist. He was disliked by huge classes (ph) on his own party. I mean, you going to go back all the way -- 1940 when Wendell Willkie .

REID: Right.

HAYES: . who won on the eight ballot, the Republican -- defining someone who all his rhetoric aside, just in the basic resonating sense.

REID: Yeah.

HAYES: I think, person that`s never sought nor held elected office.

REID: Yeah. Could get this far. And you do really have to go back to the 1960s, when everything close to a president. But you have to remember that in 1964 when Barry Goldwater was nominated by his party, there were conservative Republicans who simply said, "I cannot do this, that my principles matter more to me than my party." The great Jackie Robinson was a lifelong Republican said, "No, I will not do that." Ed Brook, the Senator from Massachusetts said, "No, I will not do that."

You think about the fact that that same year George Wallace ran for president as a Democrat. By 1968, George Wallace was forced to find other pastures.

HAYES: Right.

REID: The Democrats said, "You can run for president but you can`t run here." David Duke used to be a Democrat. Democrats said, "You know, you can do whatever you want, you can`t do it."

HAYES: Right.

REID: There`s a certain point at which if you believed that this person is unfit for the office of president, that you say, "I will not aide and abet you in becoming that." But listen, this is the party that put Sarah Palin one heartbeat away from the president as thought nothing of it of going along. Going along and getting along is what elected Republicans have been doing.

HAYES: And that to me, Molly, is part of what is profound about what happening is that existential level, I can`t tell if we are actually seeing something that fundamentally alters, rips apart, reshapes, transforms the Republican Party, or whether everyone just going to say, "Well, all right, I guess we`re trumping."

BALL: Well, look, I don`t think you can put this jaguar back in the bag, right? It`s gotten out and it`s got claws and now -- and it`s hungry. And so, you know, there`s a force that`s been unleashed here that I think Sarah Palin tapped into as well .

HAYES: Right.

BALL: . in a smaller way. But there`s a force of resentment and, you know, cultural identity politics that was not previously sort of activated in our politics.

And sure, there`s a lot of sort of liberal (inaudible), right? A lot of people on the left saying, "Oh, Republicans, you didn`t know your party was about resentment .

HAYES: Right.

BALL: . and racism and what have you." But no, there are a lot of Republicans who really did not want that to be what their party was about. And now that it`s what they see the nominee is being about, they have to either go start something new that is separate from that, washes his hands of that, you know, or find a way to, I don`t know, tame the jaguar to continue my metaphor, I guess.

HAYES: Or, Joy, embrace it unapologetically. I mean, there is a sense in which you can just say, "Look, we are going to give it a go as the party of essentially white identity resentment politics."

REID: Yup.

HAYES: And that is going to be what the new version this iteration of Republican Party, at least for the next months looks like and let`s see if it works.

REID: And also, the party should not be surprised that we`re willing to take control of the House of Representatives in the United States Senate on the backs of calling the president of the United States a liar and worse, on the backs of Palinism which if you go back and remember those rallies in 2008 were appalling and scary and there`s no nationalistic and no less away even Donald Trump is. They`re willing to hand their party to her. I don`t see any evidence that the Republican Party writ large has ever been willing to resist extremism if it meant they could get a little more power.

So, this is a party that hasn`t stood up to this kind of thing at all. So it`s not shocking that only movement conservatives want to preserve their movement.

HAYES: Oh, no. I will say this. I mean, people`s capacity for self- illusion is boundless. And I think that there are a lot of people who when they looked out at the great, you know, I`ve been going back and looking at Tea Party rallies, right?

REID: Yeah.

HAYES: Yes, right. But there are also a lot of people who are like this is about taxes, this is about ObamaCare, this is the national debt, Molly, this is the size of government and you sort of -- you covered that movement. We saw essentially what`s happening at the national presidential level, happen at the Senate and Congressional level. Mike Castle of Delaware knocked out of Christine O`Donnell. And candidate after candidate being knocked out and elevated in their place, relative nominees is. People that the electorate ultimately judged not ready to be part of elected office, and yet, at the same time, you could tell yourself a story at that time that this really was about whatever the text as opposed to the subtext was.

BALL: That`s right. I mean, I think that is what has been so disturbing and so troubling to a lot of sincere conservatives about the rise of Trump is this feeling that he has ripped the mask off of the Tea Party. This feeling that, you know, we did think the Tea Party was about smaller government and lower taxes.

You know, people like Eric Erikson who, I think, is a very sincere conservative and does believe in those things and was a major force in the Tea Party and in toppling these incumbent, because he felt that we needed to clean house. And now, they`re looking at all of these people who are Trump people who are the same people and it wasn`t about that at all and maybe all of these incumbents were getting kicked out because of a rage .

HAYES: Right.

BALL: . that was based on something completely different.

HAYES: Well, we`re going to talk to someone from RedState, (inaudible) colleagues actually in just a moment.

Joy Reid and Molly Ball, thanks for joining me.

Still to come, a lot of people sorted Donald Trump a loser, some even placing pretty hefty bets on him never getting this far, and yet, here we are. So it`s time to collect.

But first, the rights reaction, there are presumptive nominee from burning their registration cards, others declaring their support for Democratic nominee.

I`ll talk to former Republican who is now with Hillary, right after this break. Do not go anywhere.


HAYES: Last night as it dawned on everyone that Donald Trump would be the Republican nominee. Reaction from the "Never Trump" crowd began to pour in. For instance, from former aide to Senator John McCain, Mark Salter, "The GOP is going to nominate for president, a guy who reads the National Enquirer and thinks it`s on the level. I`m with her." Spotting the inevitable question, just how many "Never Trumps" will become, I`m with her."

Well, here`s a sampling, Daily Caller Senior Editor, Jaime Weinstein, "Hillary is preferable and Trump just like malaria is preferable to Ebola.

"Weekly Standard`s" Senior Writer Steven Hayes, no relation, under no circumstances, referring to voting for Trump, former Presidents George H.W. Bush and George W. Bush have no plans to endorse anyone, according to the Texas Tribune, which would mean notable failing to endorse their own party`s nominee. Images like this Republicans burning their GOP registration cards made very well proliferate.

And again, that is just a sampling. Some Republicans are conservative leaders may choose a third-party or write in candidate options which would presumably also help Clinton.

And furthermore, there are plenty Republicans who will indeed support a candidate they basically can`t stand, Donald Trump. But RedState Editor Ben Howe who has literally anguished over the ascent of the Trump candidacy and who is solidly a "Never Trump" camp, last night joined a new crew tweeting, "I`m with her."

Joining me now, Contributing Editor at RedState, Ben Howe. Ben, it`s great to have you. Ben, (inaudible) you wrote a great thing about the Ferguson DOJ report that I thought was fantastic and respected tremendously and it`s good to have you back.

I really like what you wrote and what you have been writing, so first I want to just get your reaction to what`s unfolding.

BEN HOWE, REDSTATE CONTRIBUTING EDITOR: It`s really sad and it`s something that I didn`t expect. Last June when he first announced, I said this is a clown who is running towards a circus and we need to not treat him seriously. We need to exert some kind of moral standard on the people that we nominate. And I was just shocked at how many pundits and radio hosts were treating him like a viable candidate. And I think that assisted him in getting him some attention.

And what you were talking about in the last segment assisted as well. There was a lot of elements in the Tea Party that, I think it had been quiet, at least from me, they had been quite and they sort of sprung up and started taking over in social media and online with talks about white genocide and all kinds of stuff that I just hadn`t really experienced before. It took me a while to really comprehend what was happening.

But once I really got to fix on what was happening, it was too late.

HAYES: You know, you wrote this piece about -- you said, "I lied to myself for years about who my allies were, no more."

HOWE: Yeah.

HAYES: "Donald Trump is my fault as much as anyone else`s. I kept quiet about these allies and new media and in Washington. People who I thought I agreed with 70 percent of the time, which normally is a great reason to consider someone an ally, but not when the other 30 percent is cringe- inducing paranoia and vapid stupidity."

I mean, part of this is who in the coalition that represents conservatism in America or Republican Party is now elevated which that something that I`m watching happen characters like Alex Jones, a fringe figure, a conspiracy theorist, a man who told George Will, he just stick a revolver in his mouth and pull the trigger.

You know, he got an interview of Donald Trump, he now is significant portion in some ways of what this new coalition is.

HOWE: Yeah. Well, Matt Drudge first started aligning himself with Alex Jones and Breitbart News was doing the same thing and we were all kind of struck by this. This was after Andrew died. And we all thought this is a weird alliance that`s taking place when Trump sort capitalized on it. I think a lot of us knew that it was -- we were in dangerous territory. But I don`t think that even with all of that happening, we didn`t think that a majority or even a plurality of the Republican base would elevate this guy to the nomination. I mean, up until last night, I actually believed there was still a shot that he could be stopped. I really thought more of our party than this.

HAYES: For you, how much is -- there`s sort of two categories I feel like for the "Never Trump" folks, there`s a kind of a critique of his temperament and disposition personality. I mean, people that just think he`s essentially a liar, a scoundrel, lacks the judgment as a person in terms of his character, and then there`s a sort of ideological critique which is this guy isn`t a true conservative and doesn`t actually, you know, oppose abortion or he doesn`t actually want to restrain government. What is it for you?

HOWE: Well, the ideological component is tied into the fact that I think he`s a pathological sociopath. I don`t think he actually holds any beliefs. I think that he holds rallies and whatever he needs to say at that rally is .

HAYES: Right.

HOWE: . whatever he`s going to say. If you watch when he talked about McCain, when he said he`s not a war hero, he`s a war hero because he got captured and I like people who don`t get captured. And five seconds later -- the crowd wasn`t with him, five seconds later, he`s backtracking on what he said and pretending that he always saying it that way. He just lies immediately.

And the sociopathic part of him, I think, believes himself. He says these lies and he also believes them. It`s dumbfounding and it`s frightening and that`s one of the reasons that as much as Hillary Clinton doesn`t represent anything that I believe, as much as she`s exactly the opposite of what I`ve been looking for in a presidential candidate, I`ve got to believe that she -- even if she just represented the status quo, would be better than having a maniac in the Oval Office and that`s what Donald Trump is. He`s a maniac.

HAYES: Ben Howe, thanks very much. Appreciate it.

HOWE: Thank you.

HAYES: Still to come, the precarious line Hillary Clinton is trying to walk, running two campaigns at once. What her strategy looks like over the coming weeks ahead?


HAYES: The entire internet may not be vast enough to contain the sheer magnitude (inaudible) now that Trump is the presumptive GOP presidential nominee.

Back in August, Nate Silver of "FiveThirtyEight" wrote that out emphatic prediction is simply that Trump will not win the nomination. Today, he admitted that we basically got the Republican race wrong.

Nate Cohn on "New York Times" wrote in July that we`d reached the moment when Trump`s candidacy went from boom to bust. Now he`s breaking down, what I got wrong about Donald Trump writing about assumptions, misinterpretations of data and misconnections all along the way.

Politico`s Ben White pledged to eat a bag of rusty nails if Trump won. Today, he was wondering if they make rusty nails out of chocolate. And it goes on.

"Huffington Post" put Trump coverage in its entertainment section before, quietly reversing course. Ross Douthat tweeted that the commentary is going to feel a little silly when Marco Rubio wins every Republican primary.

And then there`s "The Washington Post" Dana Milbank who wrote a column entitled "Trump will lose or I will eat this column".

Well, don`t go anywhere, because Dana Milbank is going to be on the show in a little bit and he`s been working on recipes. Stay with us.



SANDERS: I sense a great deal of momentum. I sense some great victories coming and I think that while the path is narrow, and I do not deny that for a moment, I think we can pull off one of the great political upsets in the history of the United States.


HAYES: Senator Bernie Sanders made two things clear last night after his surprise win in Indiana. One, he isn`t going anywhere. And, two, his path to nomination is indeed narrow. In fact, the irony here is that after last night`s of victory, his 18th overall, Sanders`s odds for securing the nomination actually got worse. NBC notes, Sanders must now win 66 percent, two-thirds of all remaining pledged delegates to beat Clinton, which is up from the 65 percent it was before his victory last night.

And while it`s hard to see how Sanders will be successful, given his huge delegate deficit, it creates an interesting predicament for Hillary Clinton. She now finds herself in the midst of an ongoing a primary that she is almost certain to win while the Republican Party has suddenly entered the general election with its presumptive nominee and the party set to come after her with everything they`ve got.

So, the Clinton campaign seems to be tacitly laying the groundwork for a November at the same time careful not to alienate Sanders and his supporters.

Last night, Politico reported Clinton has been quietly accelerating her swing state operation, organizing what amounts to a shadow general election campaign.

But other facets of her general election strategy are being waged in plain view like this video her campaign released today.


TRUMP: I am a unifier. We`re going to be a unified party.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO, (R) FLORIDA: He`s a con artist.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump is a the know-nothing candidate.

CRUZ: Donald is a bully.

ROMNEY: This is an individual who mocked a disabled reporter.

TRUMP: I don`t remember.

ROMNEY: Who attributed a reporter`s questions to her menstrual cycle.

TRUMP: Blood coming out of her wherever.

I bring people together.

Everybody loves me.



HAYES: All right, joining me now David Brock, founder of Correct the Record, a super PAC supporting Hillary Clinton.

All right, so, here we are. How much -- I guess what do the next six weeks look like? I mean, Bernie Sanders is not going anywhere. He won Indiana last night. It`s pretty clear that even this far in there`s a significant chunk of Democrats, 45 percent around who really like the guy and are going to keep voting for him.

DAVID BROCK, FOUNDER, CORRECT THE RECORD: Well, look, I think the Clinton campaign and secretary will have to walk and chew gum at the same time. She`s in a primary, at least technically. And she will have to keep an eye on that. She`ll have to campaign in the remaining states...

HAYES: Particularly in California.

BROCK: Particularly in California.

But at the same time, and you`re seeing it, you`re seeing a general election strategy start to unfold and you`re starting to see her in key swing states. You`re starting to see some advertising, they`ve said no advertising against Sanders, but you`re starting to see advertising against Trump.

And, look, this has to happen. The party needs to unite around Hillary Clinton now that Trump is their nominee essentially and I think his nomination represents such a potential national crisis if you got a President Trump that this pivot is urgent. She has to start the campaign now.

HAYES: Two things that struck me. One was the statement put out by John Podesta last night, I believe, you know, senior adviser of that campaign, about Trump`s nomination, which read in some ways not that different than what you would expect for any other candidate that would have been nominated. It was sort of about what the Republican Party represents in some ways and then there`s that video, right. And to me that`s the sort of divide a little bit of what this looks like. Do you run a campaign that says this guy is a Republican and Republicans are against paid sick leave and they`re against a women`s right to choose, or do you run a campaign that says this guy is a completely unique threat. Here`s what everyone in his party says about him.

BROCK: Right. Well, it`s probably elements of both. But I mean, I would emphasize the latter. I would say that -- as I said, you know, this is a unique circumstance. Donald Trump is a tyrant in the making and we`ve seen chapter and verse. You`ve had it on your show, but from fostering violence, calling for riots, attacks on freedom of the press, attacks -- a religious tests of immigrants, that is of a different nature.

And so there is an element to this that isn`t Republican/Democrat, Liberal/Conservative, but that`s about democracy and it`s about the constitution. and then you have these other elements, you know, against raising the minimum wage, against equal pay for women.

HAYES: Although, that`s -- the problem with that attack is that`s as of now in a week he may be for all of those things.

BROCK: Now, I`ve always been one who has not been salivating to run against Donald Trump because of the slipperness, because there`s no public records of the kind of research we do. It can`t be on votes, there is no public record. And I believe there`s no ideological core and that he can and will say anything. So you`re absolutely right about that.

HAYES: Clinton starts I think with an advantage if you`re projecting forward insofar as the Obama path to victory, there are more blue state electoral votes than there are red states that you started out with. She`s polling ahead of him head to head.

BROCK: Right.

HAYES: What are you most worried about?

BROCK: Well, look, I mean I guess once somebody gets a nomination of a major political party. There`s a potential that they become president. The fact that he could become president is very worrisome on a whole range of things.

And so, as I`ve said, I think we have got to start this campaign and it`s got to be about the. There`s got to be a campaign against bigotry. There`s got to be an issue around his temperament and the fact that, you know, by no definition is he qualified to be president. And I think you`re going to hear from a lot of people along the way who were disadvantaged or screwed over if you will by Donald Trump just by taking him at his word.

HAYES: That was something...

BROCK: And those will all be elements that will come into play.

HAYES: We saw part of that in the primary, and that was fairly effective.

The Trump University trial may even happen.

BROCK: Right. But I think the Republicans really -- I mean, there hasn`t been a sustained strategic effort against Donald Trump. And I don`t think he has a clue as to what`s coming, frankly.

HAYES David Brock, thanks for joining us. I appreciate it. Coming up there was a key moment yesterday that perfectly summed up why Ted Cruz`s campaign was flawed from the start. We will show it to you ahead.



HAYES: where do you want to go here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean, who cares. Let`s try 24.

HAYES: Who cares, let`s try 24.


HAYES: In the world of All In 2016 fantasy candidate draft picks, you win some and you lose some. Well, our good friend Josh Barro lost a bunch, and today, sadly, his draft journey has come to an end.

Josh, following in the footsteps of the great Joy Reid, ran out of draft picks still running for president when Ted Cruz dropped out of the race last night.

It was not an easy road for Josh, yet he took it all in stride, accepting his randomly selected draft picks and Sam Seder`s Sarah Palin whammy with grace and dignity.


HAYES: Josh Barro, your reaction.

JOSH BARRO, THE NEW YORK TIMES: So, now I have Sarah Palin and Ted Cruz.

I`m really nailing it.

I said in the break I was hoping for Carly Fiorina. I was joking, but apparently I was taken seriously.

HAYES: Does Josh Barro`s luck turn around with good old number 25? No, it doesn`t. Bob Corker.

BARRO: Is Bob Corker even aware that anybody is talking about the idea that Bob Corker might run for president? .

HAYES: Bob Corker religiously watches All In weeknights at 8:00 p.m. on MSNBC.

BARRO: Well, that sounds presidential.


HAYES: Tough to watch, very hard to watch.

We reached out to Josh for a comment on this matter. And here is what he told us, and I`m quoting, like so many of the candidates I have been a victim of a rigged system in which I was not allowed to choose draft candidates who were loyal to me. The result is illegitimate and the voters will not stand for it.

Fortunately for Josh, he`ll get help from one voter, our draft commissioner, who awarded Josh an additional 500 points for Carly Fiorina`s brief vice presidential run. Josh Barro`s fantasy draft adventure ends with 9,900 points. That still puts him ahead of Joy Reid, who tapped out with 5,300 points.

Sam Seder, in it to win it with Hillary Clinton has 17,300 points. Michael Steele, fresh off another Bernie Sanders victory has 18,700 points.

And in the lead with Donald Trump is Jess McIntosh and 23,000 points.

Now, don`t give up yet, Josh Barro. We`ve got a whole new game you can get in on. I`ll tell you about what that`s going to be in 60 seconds.


HAYES: All right, now that you`ve gotten your draft fix and now that Donald Trump is the presumptive Republican nominee, might I suggest another type of competition.

I`ve been musing about it for a few days on Twitter. We should do some kind of fantasy draft of prominent conservatives for when they`ll publicly come over to Trump. Now, if you had your eyes on Ari Fleischer or Grover Norquist, sorry, they`re already off the board.

As we told you earlier Fleischer, who once compared Trump to a car wreck seems to have a changed of heart. There`s a lot about Donald Trump I don`t like, but I`ll vote for Trump over Hillary any day.

Meanwhile, Grover Norquist appears to have made the journey from Trump skeptic to Trump curious.

OK, so the choice is between a fireman with modest preparation and a serial arsonist whom married into the job.

So, there you have it.

New York Magazine`s Jonathan Chait already put in a selection, "I`m using my first round pick on the Wall Street Journal editorial page and that was a darned good pick because pretty much at the same time Chait tweeting that before Trump had even locked things up in Indiana came this piece from the Wall Street Journal editorial page warning against a conservative third- party challenge to Trump.

Stay tuned for a lot more of these. The bidding is now open on Bill Kristol. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)


CRUZ: I`m going do something I haven`t done for the entire campaign for those of you who have traveled with me all across the country, I`m going to tell you what I really think of Donald Trump.

HAYES: What`s wrong with that sentence uttered yesterday afternoon is what was wrong with the entire Cruz campaign from the very beginning. Just how incredibly cynical it was at every single turn Cruz, the guy who is holding himself out at the last best beacon of hope against Donald Trump spent the first six months of his campaign praising Trump over and over again.


TRUMP: Oh, I`m a big fan of Donald Trump`s.

And I like and respect Donald Trump.

I like Donald Trump. He`s a friend of mine.

I like Donald Trump. He`s bold. He`s brash.

He`s bold and brash and he`s willing to speak the truth

He`s bold. He`s brash. i`m glad he`s running.

I think Donald Trump is bringing a bold, brash voice to this presidential race.

I`ve been proud to defend him for focusing on illegal immigration.

I will continue to sing Donald`s praises personally.

I commend Donald Trump.


HAYES: When Ted Cruz wasn`t cozying up to Donald Trump he was advocating an agenda that if Trump wasn`t in the race would have been notable as perhaps the most extreme agenda ever pushed by any candidate of any major party who had an actual shot at the nominatino.

Now, this is a man who campaigned on carpet bombing ISIS until the sand glows. And in the final desperate stretch of his campaign on protecting little girls from transgender people in bathroom.

Now only are Ted Cruz`s policies radical and reprehensible, Cruz as a candidate both on and off the campaign trail often fell pretty flat, including his best attempt to go viral, eating bacon cooked on the barrel of a gun.

So, for the next time Ted Cruz runs for president, because you know he will, some tips. void getting side-eye from mother by saying that she prays for you for hours a day.


CRUZ: This has been a remarkable journey, but one of the things that gives me real strength is not a day goes by that my mom is not lifting me up in prayer for hours at a time.


HAYES: Hours? Watch out for fake supporters while you`re campaigning.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senator Cruz, can I at least shake your hand. What? Too slow Joe. You look like a fish monster.


HAYES: And finally and perhaps most importantly watch the right cross when your wife is standing next to you on the podium on your way out of the race.

Good bye, Ted.


HAYES: Not too long ago there were a lot of people confidently predicting the presumptive nominee Donald Trump would never secure the Republican presidential nomination.


BILL KRISTOL, THE WEEKLY STANDARD: Now there`s this Trump going on. I gather he`s doing okay in the polls for a while, but he`s not going to be the nominee.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is here to stay for awhile, maybe through a few primaries, but he is not going to be the nominee.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t think he`s going to be on the ballot by February 1.

ROMNEY: I would vote for the nominee of the Republican Party and I don`t believe that`s going to be Donald Trump.

DAVID BROOKS, THE NEW YORK TIMES: This is not Trump/Cruz. This is going to go on for months and months and months.

It`s going to be Rubio. I`m telling you, it`s going to be Rubio.


HAYES: Now, there`s no punishment for being wrong on cable television as a lot of those folks know quite well, but the real winners in the prognostication game are the ones who are willing to put their money where their mouth is or in the case of our next guest, their column.

Joining me now Washington Post opinion writer Dana Milbank, author of an October piece entitled, quote, "Trump will lose or I will eat this column."

Also with me New York Magazine columnist Jonathan Chait who back in August confidently predicted, quote, "Donald Trump is going to lose, because he is crazy."

All right, Dana, my understanding is you`re researching recipes. You want to put some tought into how you consume your column.

DANA MILBANK, WASHINGTON POST: Yeah, we`re going to crowd source this a bit. I`d call it haut type cuisine, instead of hot type cuisine. I`ve got a whole lot of really delectable newsprint recipes coming out. We`re going to have a sit down in a restaurant next Thursday. I`ve got the Post`s food critic, Tom Sietsema, on the case.

There is no reason why the newspaper should not go down easily. Admittedly, there may be some lead or heavy metals in the ink, but you know it`s a small price to pay. And our country is going to pay a far greater price for what the Republican Party has done.

HAYES: What happened? What did you get wrong?

MILBANK: Well, I`d like to say I think I put too much faith in the Republican voters, but they didn`t entirely let me down, Chris. Trump never got a majority of them. The problem was nobody ever got a clean shot at trump except for maybe Ted Cruz, but that was hardly the ideal opponent.

So, I would like to think it wasn`t really the voters, it was the selfishness of the other candidates in the race. But be that as it may I said I`d eat my column. I`ve got 18 inches of wood pulp to consume and I`m to take my medicine.

HAYES: Jonathan, I actually think the -- I think the people who said this won`t happen because of the structure of the Republican Party, I was never on board with that, and I`d never made any sort of definitive pronouncements either way, because I don`t know the future.

But the more compelling prediction was just the guy himself doesn`t have the necessary discipline -- the necessary temperament to survive this, but that proved not to be true either.

JONATHAN CHAIT, NEW YORK MAGAZINE: Yeah, you know, I didn`t think -- not only did I not think he would win, I didn`t think he was running for president. I thought he was trying to drum up publicity for himself.

What he was doing did not seem to to be a rational plan to become the president of the United States. And the craziest thing about it is, he`s not going to be president of the United States. So, I don`t really understand why he decided to blow up a relatively profitable branding business, which is now basically dead in order to lose very badly to Hillary Clinton in November.

HAYES: Jonathan just said something definitively about the outcome in the November election and one thing Dana that I think we may see is a little bit of overcorrection, right, fighting the last battle, people feel burned by the fact they said this guy is a joke. He has no chance. And I think we`re going to see a lot of people saying, I don`t want to make that same mistake again.

What is your feeling about how you integrate the lessons of the primary into how you think about the general?

MILBANK: Well, Chris, I am so certain that Trump is going to be a sure loser in November, that I would like to get up here and say I will eat this microphone, but I have learned my lessons. I`m not going to eat shoes. I`m not going to eat a hat. I`m not going to eat crow. But I think we -- what I think you had it right in the first place say we don`t know the future.

Donald Trump has surprised people before, maybe he can turn the electoral map on its head. What we know at this point, though, it appears from where we sit now that dog just ain`t gonna hunt.

HAYES: You know, Jonathan, part of this also is about the impulsive to be definitive in predictions. And i encounter this all the time because when you meet someone, when I meet someone at a party or an event for my kids` school and I tell them what I do they say who is going to win, right, because there`s some degree to which there`s an ancient human role to define the future.

People want to know the future. The future is unknowable and you think well, there`s some group of people that can tell me and you know, people are happy to fill in that gap.

But part of what I`ve learned at least is definitive predictions are themselves sort of the problem.

CHAIT: Right.

You know, you shouldn`t make definitive predictions, but sometimes you`re dealing -- especially when you`re writing headlines, which have to be short and usually I`m making arguments about the way the world should be, but you sort of have to incidentally get to the question that people want to know is what do you think will happen.

Trump was a pretty unprecedented situation. W should not be too confident about what`s going to happen in the future. I can`t say for sure he`s going to lose. His chances are very, very, very bad. You know, there`s a chance he could win in November, but his odds are -- they`re not good.

HAYES: Dana, quickly, your -- what did you learn? What`s the one big thing you`ve learned from this?

MILBANK: That you can make some excellent tacos and churros and candied newspaper waffles with your daily newspaper. You know, you should not believe that the newspaper is no longer valuable in the print edition.

HAYES: I`m going to be looking forward to that video when it comes out. I`m sure it is going to be a culinary delight for everybody involved, particularly Dana.

You`ve got some situation going on, so we will look for that online.


MILBANK: My digestive situation about to go on.

HAYES: Dana Milbank and Jonathan Chait, thank you both for being here.

That is All In for this evening.