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All In With Chris Hayes, Transcript 4/13/2016

Guests: Randy Evans, Matt Welch, Jeff Weaver, Drew Magary, Sam Seder, Sarah Isqur Flores

Show: ALL IN with CHRIS HAYES Date: April 13, 2016 Guest: Randy Evans, Matt Welch, Jeff Weaver, Drew Magary, Sam Seder, Sarah Isqur Flores


CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voice-over): Tonight on ALL IN --

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The party is playing dirty.

HAYES: Donald Trump battles the party he wants to lead.

TRUMP: You got to show the Republican Party they can`t get away with this stuff any longer.

HAYES: Now, the RNC is fighting back against Trump and this idea.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If Donald Trump exceeds 1,100 votes he`ll become the nominee even though he may not have 1,237.

HAYES: I`ll speak with that member of the RNC rules committee.

And then, Verizon`s CEO blasts Bernie Sanders for contemptible views.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You are standing up, not just for justice for Verizon workers, you`re standing up for millions of Americans who don`t have a union.

HAYES: Sanders campaign manager is here to respond.

Plus, John Kasich lectures Yeshiva students on the Old Testaments.

GOV. JOHN KASICH (R-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And that`s how the Jews got to Egypt, right? Did you know that?

HAYES: And the two voters Trump cannot get.

IVANKA TRUMP, DAUGHTER OF DONALD TRUMP: We haven`t been in politics very long.

ERIC TRUMP, SON OF DONALD TRUMP: We didn`t realize how the whole system worked.

HAYES: Why on voter registration, the Trump kids make a good point.

D. TRUMP: So, Eric and Ivanka, I guess, won`t be voting.

HAYES: When ALL IN starts right now.


HAYES: Good evening from New York, I`m Chris Hayes.

And breaking news tonight in the Trump campaign and its embattled campaign manager Corey Lewandowski. "Politico" is reporting that a Florida prosecutor has decided not to prosecute Lewandowski for battery in his March run-in with former Breitbart reporter Michelle Fields, he was captured on a surveillance tape at Trump national golf club in Jupiter, Florida, and later released by the Jupiter police.

We should note, MSNBC and NBC News have not confirmed this report. "Politico" also reporting Fields may still pursue a defamation case against Lewandowski. This comes as Trump`s relationship with the party he is seeking to lead reaches all time lows.

Just two weeks to the day after Donald Trump made a big show of his confab at RNC headquarters in Washington, boasting on Twitter, "Just had a very nice meeting with Reince Priebus and the GOP, looking forward to bringing the party together and it will happen!"

Trump is casting Priebus and party leaders as the main villains at conspiracy to steal the Republican nomination. At a rally tonight in Pittsburgh, he blamed his resent shut out in Colorado on an intentional effort to block him.


TRUMP: The bosses and the establishment and the people that shouldn`t have this power took all of the power away from the voters. So, the voters never got to vote and the voters didn`t know that except when I got up and complained, because they did it after I joined the race and they figured I`d probably win Colorado which I would.


HAYES: Now, this comes after Trump called out the RNC chairman by name in an interview yesterday with "The Hill", saying, quote, "Reince Priebus should be ashamed of himself because he knows what`s going on." He later claimed Republican leaders had changed the rules to undermine his campaign.


TRUMP: I know the rules well, but I know that it`s stacked against me and by the establishment. I fully understand it. Colorado is unfortunate because they disenfranchise the voters. They disenfranchise all of these voters.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN: You`re saying you don`t think the RNC wants you to get the nomination?

TRUMP: No, I don`t think so. I really don`t. The Republican Party in Colorado wanted Cruz, or maybe somebody other than Trump. I don`t think anybody really wants Cruz. Why would they want him? There`s no reason to want him.

But the Republican Party wanted somebody other than Trump.


HAYES: That was the limit for Priebus who hit back on Twitter late last night, quote, "Nomination process known for a year and beyond. It`s the responsible of campaigns to understand it. Complaints now? Give us all a break."

The Republican chairman who has taken immense pains to avoid conflicts with his party`s combative frontrunner, Trump had taken his public scolding too far. Priebus continued to defend the RNC in an interview today.


REINCE PRIEBUS, RNC CHAIRMAN: I honestly don`t take it all that personally. But I do have to respond, though, when a campaign says that the RNC is, you know, rigging the rules. It`s just not the case. I know people get frustrated and they`re disappointed when things don`t go exactly the right way. So, I think when people are frustrated and upset, they say things that they regret. But certainly, one thing that`s true is that the rules are not being changed in order to injure or benefit anybody.


HAYES: While Trump was still hammering the GOP establishment at his rally tonight, his campaign is trying to increase its appeal to the very same group, hiring Scott Walker`s former campaign manager, Rick Wiley, as its new national political director. And a press release announcing the hire today, Trump praised Wiley`s, quote, "decades of experience and his deep ties to political leaders and activist across the country."

But Trump`s story about stealing the nomination already seemed to have sewn deep distrust among some of his reporters. In a few cases, something much uglier.

We told you yesterday how Colorado`s GOP said he received death threats after Ted Cruz swept the state`s 34 available delegates which are awarded in a series of state conventions instead of a primary or caucus. Now, state police in Indiana are reportedly reviewing alleged threats against some of the state`s newly elected Republican delegates, after they expressed reservations about Trump in a political story published online Saturday.

Earlier this month in Tennessee, both local police and private security reportedly stood guard at a state GOP meeting to select delegates after the party allegedly received death threats from Trump supporters including one that involved trying to hang people.

All along, Trump has been making the case even if he falls short of the 1,237 delegates needed to clinch the nomination, he`ll still have a mandate from a plurality of Republican voters, making him the legitimate nominee. Now, at least one member of the RNC`s all-important rules committee appeared to accept that argument, telling MSNBC that Trump can clinch the nomination if he gets most of the way there.


RANDY EVANS, RNC RULES COMMITTEE MEMBER: What I do expect to happen is this. If Donald Trump exceeds 1,100 votes, he`ll become the nominee even though he may not have 1,237.


HAYES: RNC immediately shot down the idea. Communications director Sean Spicer responding on Twitter, "The GOP will have a nominee only when a candidate reaches the majority of delegates, which is 1,237."

I got a chance to speak with RNC rules committee member Randy Evans. I asked him what he thought about Spicer`s rebuttal.


EVANS: He`s absolutely right. My comment this morning on "MORNING JOE" was to simply say once Donald Trump, if Donald Trump reaches 1,100 delegates, the momentum would carry him all the way to the 1,237. He`ll be 150 to 200 unbound delegates. The bandwagon effect takes over and having been through many conventions before, if he gets to 1,100, he`ll end up with the nomination.

HAYES: So, I just want to spell this out, the scenario you`re envisioning is that probably June 7th, the final day of the primaries, huge amount of delegates at play in California. There`s also New Jersey, two other states. June 7th happens and he comes out of that, he`s around 1,100. You just think essentially a kind of domino consolidation happens where delegates step forward to say, we`re voting for the first ballot and the number of people that do that will put him over that majority threshold.

EVANS: Yes, just like it did for Barack Obama when he ran the first time against Hillary Clinton. If you remember, all the super delegates were on one side and he didn`t quiet enough to get there. But by the time you get there, if you have the momentum to get to 1,100, that last 3,700 delegates, they`ll be jumping on the bandwagon like you haven`t seen before.

HAYES: Now, here`s the crucial difference though, Mr. Evans, is that in that 2008 contest, first of all, you have the super delegates who were sort of an institutionalized portion of the electorate who refuse to make up their minds. And number two, Hillary Clinton dropped out. So, by the time that happened, right, everyone had kind of folded at the table.

My understanding is that Ted Cruz certainly and looks like John Kasich will still be in the game even after June 7th. You don`t think that`s going to happen?

EVANS: No, I think they`ll be in all the way through, and that`s why I said there were three scenarios. One scenario is Donald Trump gets to 1,100, in which case I think that last 137 will come along.

The second possibility is that no one gets to a thousand. In which case, it will be a free for all. It will be anything possible at that Republican national convention.

Then the third possibility is that we end up between a thousand and 1,100 votes. I think there`s so many anti-Trump votes that are never going to support him in a million years. That in that middle part, you`ll have a lot of brokering going on.

I can easily see a Donald Trump reaching out to a John Kasich and saying, hey, why don`t you be my running mate and push me over the top to 1,237, or I can see a Ted Cruz go to Marco Rubio and say, hey, we can stop Donald Trump but I need you, Marco Rubio, along with some of your allies to bring your delegates, your unbound delegates with me.

If we have a brokered convention, it will be because Donald Trump ends past a thousand but shorter than 1,100. If he gets past 1,100, he`ll end up with a nomination. Under a thousand, we`re going to see a convention like we haven`t seen in a decade, a century.

HAYES: I saw some folks, some conservatives, some never Trump conservatives who are reacting to your comments this morning, basically saying that you`re a crypto Trump supporter and that you`re attempting to move the goal post from the actual number to this lower target, so that you can essentially build a narrative of legitimacy around him.

Is that true?

EVANS: No, it`s not. I took a pledge of neutrality from the very beginning. I serve on the debate committee and on the rules committee and on the nomination committee. I`m chairman of the Republican National Lawyers Association.

We actually made available to every single campaign a blueprint so every campaign, all 17 could get all of their names on all 50 states, the District of Columbia and the five territories.

So, we`ve been neutral. I`ve been neutral all the way through.

Listen, as a senior adviser to the Gingrich campaign, do we fit precisely into the establishment or the anti-establishment? No. I think as Gingrich Republican, as a Republican that kind of comes at it from an outside, I think we`re more of the folks who kind of see it a different way.

We don`t see an establishment, I don`t see any establishment. I look at what history tells me. History tells me when winners get close to the finish line, there are a lot of folks that who want to be with them.

As they always say, you know, winners have lots of friends and losers are really orphans.

HAYES: All right. Randy Evans, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

EVANS: Thank you.


HAYES: Joining me now, Robert Costa, national political reporter with "The Washington Post" and an MSNBC political analyst, and Matt Welch, editor in chief of "Reason Magazine."

Robert, let me start with you.

I guess on the first one, the Lewandowski news, which I`ve see another outlet say it`s going to happen, that he`s not going to be prosecuted, which is at one level a relief, I think probably for Lewandowski and for the campaign. But in another Lewandowski`s got other problems on his hand because it does seem like he`s being pushed out to the edges of this organization.

ROBERT COSTA, THE WASHINGTON POST: Based on my reporting, Chris, Lewandowski isn`t exactly being pushed out. He remains a confidante of the candidate, someone who travels with Trump.

Trump is certainly expanding his inner circle, bringing in Rick Wiley, Scott Walker`s campaign manager. He already has some veteran hands who are new to the team, like Barry Bennett, Ed Brookover from Ben Carson`s bid and, of course, Paul Manafort, the new strategist on delegates.

HAYES: It seems to me like this is attempting both an inside and outside strategy at the same time, right? I mean, I think they have to be aware the math is going to be tough to get to 1,237, though still feasible, and they`re about to win a bunch of states big, I think.

Yes, Robert.

COSTA: The way I see Trump now is he remains his own chief strategist. He`s someone who`s underscoring his outsider appeal. At the same time, operationally, this is an organization that`s struggled repeatedly at state conventions and accumulating delegates. It`s not built relationships across the country within the Republican Party.

If he wants to be the nominee, he has to address that. For now, he`s bringing in some people to try to do that. But it remains somewhat of an unresolved issue.

HAYES: So, to me, there`s a carrot and stick being set up here, right? Which is that if they`re going to get to the 1,100 that Randy Evans said, around, the carrot is, I`ve got these inside guys, maybe we could work with you, we could work out some deals, and the stick is, my people will riot. I mean, basically, that`s what`s being put in the table.

MATT WELCH, REASON MAGAZINE: I don`t know what the carrot is. I mean, the 1,100, the idea that history will make 1,100 magically turn into 1,237 is just not true.

At this point in the nomination process, there usually is a consolidation and a momentum. But there`s a reason why this election has been so crazy. It`s because history doesn`t apply. We`ve blown apart a lot of the rules that we`ve had so far. There`s a very solid never Trump kind of backstop to all of this right now and you`d have to get to 1,237.

"The Washington Post" came out with a story this afternoon saying basically, if Donald Trump doesn`t get to 1,237 Ted Cruz is going to pick up 130 and 170 delegates in the second round. That`s trouble for Trump.

HAYES: Let me say this, though, and Robert, then, I`ll go back to you. But, Matt, we`re saying this now post-Wisconsin. And one of the things that`s happened is demography has been destiny, A, geography has equaled momentum, which is to say people in states they`re demographically inclined to do well, and do well, and then we say, oh, they got momentum. Wisconsin people thought Cruz would do well, he did well.

We`re now going to step into a bunch of contest Trump says is going to win by big margins. Does that change the kind of ambient pressure around Trump or never Trump?

WELCH: Ambient pressure is very interesting. Delegate counting is what gets you there.

Ted Cruz right now is sawing up delegates who in the second round will not vote for Donald Trump in place after place. In North Carolina, South Carolina, Indiana is already a disaster for Donald Trump based on what Ted Cruz has done there. And Donald Trump might win that. That`s hard work that you actually have to do.


WELCH: Cruz is doing it and Trump is not.

HAYES: I know that.

But, Robert, my question to you is, does the momentum or the perceived power, perceived legitimacy, the margins, do they matter in that process or does it come down to whose in the room?

COSTA: I think it`s a little bit of both. I mean, when you look at April, it`s favorable to Trump. He`s certainly going to pick up some momentum and delegates are going to be paying attention and Matt`s right as well. When you rook into early May, Trump, Cruz is poised to do well in Indiana, the more ideological state in terms of its conservative electorate.

And then you have in June, California. That`s going to be a major test, Cruz`s organization and Trump as well. And I think when you look at the summer, ambient pressure as you`re talking about matters to delegates but organization does too in a sense that Cruz has a lot of support from the people who are formally Trump delegates and bound to Trump and could turn on a second ballot.

HAYES: My -- the question to me all along here, right, is how much spine is there in the folks that are going to have to ultimately stare down this challenge? When you hear things like that from Randy Evans, there`s a sort of descriptive aspect to that, but there`s also a kind of hinting to it to me or a sort of signaling that`s happening in that kind of state.

WELCH: What`s interesting is that Trump is blaming the establishment for places like Colorado. He`s getting it exactly wrong. The people who are good at getting these caucus systems is not the establishment.

HAYES: No, the grassroots folks.

WELCH: Grassroots, Tea Party.

HAYES: Right.

WELCH: Rand Paul people, these are the people who learned how to do this. And so, the Trump people have not learned the game in the same way that the grassroots have. The establishment is rubbing their hands saying, thank you, someone has to learn these rules --

HAYES: Let me tell you about this. People are talking about the death threats. We`re talking about, you know, Roger Stone giving out names and things like that, OK? Let`s bracket that for a moment. Forget about the most extreme and sort of horrifying examples of that kind of threat of violence.

I remember talking to Democratic members of Congress who are so spooked by those Tea Party town halls that were happening after the summer after Obamacare was on the table, like they were worried about that. If you had some version of that, that`s going to influence I think the way delegates act, Robert. What do you think?

COSTA: I think that`s spot on. I`ve spoken to delegates and those elected officials. If you`re a state senator or state representative, you have a primary threat looming over you and this kind of thing could influence your decision.

HAYES: All right. Robert Costa and Matt Welch, thank you both for being here.

Just ahead, this is a live picture of Washington Square Park in New York City where Bernie Sanders is holding a massive, massive rally tonight. They`re turning people away. The press pen is already closed. You can`t get in there after a day that began with the candidate on the picket line, with striking Verizon workers.

We`ll talk about the New York strategy with campaign manager Jeff Weaver live from that rally in two minutes.


HAYES: You`re looking at live pictures of a massive get out the vote really for Bernie Sanders at New York City`s Washington Square Park. Sanders has predicted a, quote, "major victory" in Tuesday`s New York Democratic primary. Down 14 points in the latest NBC/"Wall Street Journal", the Brooklyn native is doing what he can to close the gap. He has closed it considerably in the last month.

His campaign picked up two big endorsements today getting his first endorsement from a fellow senator. That was Democrat Jeff Merkley from Oregon. And here in New York, you got the backing of the transportation workers union workers union local 100, which represents the city`s roughly 40,000 transit workers.

This afternoon, Sanders joined the picket line with the union members of the Communication Workers of America, which have also endorsed him at the national level, Verizon employees who were striking in Brooklyn.


SANDERS: Today, you are standing up not just for justice for Verizon workers, you`re standing up for millions of Americans who don`t have a union.


I know how hard it is, what a difficult decision it is to go out on strike. I know you`ve thought a whole lot about it, and I know your families will pay a price to go out on strike. But you have chosen to stand up for dignity, for justice and to take on an enormously powerful special interest.



HAYES: We should note, this is the biggest strike in America since 2011. Sanders has accused the company, Verizon, trying to cut the pensions and wages, charges that Verizon CEO Lowell McAdam denies, saying today, quote, "The senator`s uninformed views are in a word contemptible, nostalgia for the rotary phone era won`t save American jobs."

Hillary also paid a visit to striking Verizon workers in Manhattan, looking to shore up the advantage she has over Sanders with the other major labor unions not including CWA.


HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The workers here, the CWA workers, I know from having (INAUDIBLE) back in my Senate years are skilled workers, experienced workers, and they deserve to have a fair contract.


HAYES: Juxtaposing that visit today were stories like this in "Salon", noting Verizon Communications paid Hillary Clinton $225,000 for a speech in 2013 and donated money to the Clinton Foundation.

Joining me now from that rally in Washington Square Park is Bernie Sanders campaign manager Jeff Weaver.

Jeff, first I would like to get your response to the word contemptible describing the views of Senator Sanders from the Verizon CEO.

JEFF WEAVER, BERNIE SANDERS CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Well, look, Bernie Sanders has stood up for working people his entire life and he`ll continue to do it whether the CEO of Verizon likes it or not.

HAYES: You know, Hillary Clinton was on the picket line today. The CWA has endorsed Bernie Sanders. But that CWA is notable because it`s one of the only large national unions that`s endorsed Sanders. A bunch of the other big ones have come out for Hillary Clinton.

Why do you think that is?

WEAVER: Well, Senator Sanders has done a lot of support among labor. We have five national unions that supported him. The transit workers here in New York came out for him today, 40,000 people. So, he`s getting a lot of labor support and grass roots support.

HAYES: Let me ask you here, Senator Sanders is approaching the podium behind you with his wife Jane. New York seems like a state that in some ways is, it should be a winnable state if the Bernie Sanders theory of change is in effect. It has lots of parts of the Democratic base that should be amendable to his message. It`s more diverse than other states he struggled, but it`s in the North.

Is this some sort of test of the Sanders coalition?

WEAVER: Well, look, we`re doing very well here. We`ve started off way down. He`s closing the gap. It`s a tough fight here.

The secretary was senator here two times. She has deep roots here. But we`re making a lot of progress here. At the end of the day, we`re going to do well.

HAYES: Jeff, I want to take a second since we have the senator at the podium. Take a look to what he`s saying to the crowd.

SANDERS: Jane and I left New York City when we were kids. It is great to be back. Thank you.


Let me thank Emily de Vito, Allie Lungley (ph), Dr. Paul`s son, Vampire Weekend, Tim Robbins, Tom DeWayne, Linda Sansor (ph), J.P. Patapio, Senator Nina Turner, Chris Shelton, Rosaria Dawson, Spike Lee.

I want to thank all of them for being here tonight and for the great introductions I`ve received.



I don`t think that there is any doubt but that our campaign today has the momentum.


We have won seven out of the last eight caucuses and primaries.


And when I look at an unbelievable crowd like this, I believe we`re going to win here in New York next Tuesday.


When we begun this campaign 11 months ago, we were 60 points behind Secretary Clinton. In the last two weeks, two polls have us ahead of Secretary Clinton.


In national poll after national poll has us defeating Donald Trump by double digits.


What this campaign is about in your presence here tonight knows that you all understand us -- it is not just about electing a president. It is about creating a political revolution.


It is about creating a government which works for all of us, not just wealthy campaign contributors.


It is a campaign about not ignoring the veterans who sleep out on the street.


The children, the elderly or the poor. It is about a government that creates a decent standard of living for every man, woman and child.


What this campaign is profoundly about is understanding that real change never occurs from the top on down. It is always from the bottom on up.


What this campaign is about is the understanding that when we stand together, black and white and Latino and Asian-American and Native American, when we do not allow the Donald Trumps of the world that divide us up, there is nothing we cannot accomplish.


HAYES: Jeff, the candidate there, Senator Sanders talking about a multiracial coalition which is a sort of what is really the heart of what the Obama coalition, the Democratic Party in the 21st century looks like, that he`s stitched together.

There are people who look at the string of wins you`ve had in the states which Hawaii, excepted, had been states that don`t necessarily look like that Democratic coalition.

The crowd here in New York much more representative. That`s why it seems these states of the Northeast are so key for you, guys.

WEAVER: Look, this is a multiracial coalition that`s behind the political revolution. We`ve seen in state after state, increasing support from members of the African-American community, Latino community, Native American community, Asian community, and we are bringing together the coalition to support Bernie Sanders agenda for a future that people can believe in.

HAYES: All right. New York is on Tuesday, of course, and then, a week later, you`ve got a whole bunch of states in the Northeast and we will see if that momentum takes them if it`s real.

Jeff Weaver, thank you very much for making time tonight. Appreciate it.

WEAVER: Thanks. Glad to be here, Chris. Thanks.

HAYES: Up next, the ALL IN word of the day brought to you by John Kasich, meeting a group of Yeshiva students. I give you goysplaining.


KASICH: You know about Joshua?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was the disciple of Moses.

KASICH: I know he was. I know that. I`m going to have the teach him.



HAYES: Following in the footsteps of Ted Cruz who last week tried to win over Jewish Brooklynites by awkwardly making matzo while wearing a blazer, John Kasich yesterday toured a matzo bakery in Brooklyn`s Burroughs Park, a predominately Jewish neighborhood. Kasich also visited a nearby store named Aikler`s Judea Cup (ph) where the web site Jewish Insider captured the former altar boy speaking with Jewish leaders and Yeshiva students and doing a fair amount of goysplaining.


JOHN KASICH, 2016 REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The story of the people are Abraham when god made a covenant with Abraham, not Moses.

You know who I like.


KASICH: Joseph.

You guys like Joseph? Do you study Joseph? Do you know this?


Because his brothers, they hated him, you know, because part of it, he may have been a little bit of a braggart, Joseph. May have been a little bit - - maybe. But they threw him in that ditch and his brother saved him and then they sold him into slavery.

And that`s how to Jews got to Egypt, right? Did you know that?


KASICH: Joshua, Joshua was another great leader. Do you know about Joshua?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was the disciple of Moses.

KASICH: I know he was. I know that. I`m going to have to teach him. He`s going to have to ride around all day.


HAYES: I`m sure the people studying Torah and Talmud eight to 10 hours a day really appreciated those lessons, although to Kasich`s credit, at least he managed not to say, you know who I like? Jesus. You guys know about Jesus?

Coming up is one of the most influential media outlets on the right trying to take down Ted Cruz. That`s next.


HAYES: I want to show you something from today. This is a screen grab from the Drudge Report website we took this afternoon that big banner, a headline in the middle, is pushing the claim we discussed earlier that Trump will get the nomination even if he falls short of 1,237 delegates.

Many of the headlines surrounding that banner are either pro-Trump or anti- Ted Cruz. And those headlines actually, believe it or not, matter, even in 2016. The Drudge Report still manages, still, to drive a tremendous amount of traffic, particularly in the world of conservative media, where it is legitimately quite influential. And Cruz believes the site is purposely working against him, engaged in a conspiracy plot involving Trump ally Roger Stone.


CRUZ: In about the past month, the Drudge Report has basically become the attack site for the Donald Trump campaign. And so every day they have the latest Trump attack. They`re directed at me. It by all appearances, Roger Stone now decides what`s on Drudge and most days they have a six month old article that`s some attack on me and it`s whatever the Trump campaign is pushing that day will be the banner headline on Drudge.


HAYES: Now this may be something you don`t expect me to say, but Ted Cruz probably has a point. Politico found out, yes, this year, Drudge`s site has largely pushed banner pieces publicizing Trump favorably and in recent days has been pushing stories either criticizing or deriding Cruz.

Joining me now, Sarah Isqur Flores, former deputy campaign manager for Carly Fiorina`s presidential campaign. She now supports Ted Cruz.

Sarah, here`s what I love about this story. And I think whether Roger Stone is involved or not or there is some grand conspiracy or just the whims of Matt Drudge, strange individual that he is, what I love about this is the discovery by a conservative that perhaps Drudge isn`t quite on the up and up.

Perhaps Drudge has an agenda and beats people up to pursue petty vendettas. Could that possibly be possible?

SARAH ISQUR FLORES, FRM. CARLY FIORINA DEPUTY CAMPAIGN MANAGER: I don`t actually know why Matt Drudge is doing what he`s doing. But we`ve seen it with Breitbart and some other sites as well where they`re willing to carry water for Donald Trump even though Ted Cruz is obviously the more conservative candidate in the race.

You know, Matt Drudge is going to do what Matt Drudge does, but I do think it`s becoming clear to voters that Ted Cruz is the conservative and Donald Trump is the Twitter feed.

HAYES: Well, here`s the thing, it`s a little unclear how much GOP voters care about who is conservative in the terms as defined by Ted Cruz or other.

But second of all, has this campaign as someone who works on the right, it he Republican Party, has it changed the way you perceive conservative media given that such a large percentage of conservative media have been so willing to play patty cake or boost someone who by your own definition is not conservative?

FLORES: I don`t agree it`s a large percentage of conservative media. And I think that this cycle has changed what people think of...

HAYES: Have you listened to talk radio?

FLORES: in general.

Look, Mark Levin has endorsed Ted Cruz. He`s one of the biggest conservative guys out there. Hugh Hewitt is not carrying any water for Donald Trump. And Rush Limbaugh has said very positive things about Ted Cruz as well.

I think that the media as a whole is going to look back at this cycle and have some real soul searching as to what went on for the last year, both conservative, liberal and everything in between.

HAYES: So, I think Ted Cruz is about to get his clock cleaned in New York. I don`t think it`s a bold prediction, that`s what the polling says. I don`t think the New York values thing has played well.

He`s now running this add in New York aimed at Mayor Bill de Blasio. Take a listen.


ANNOUNCER: De Blasio`s socialist policies are tearing this city apart. Murder is up nearly 10 percent. He treats cops like criminals and criminals like freedom fighters. De Blasio made New York a sanctuary city, rolling out the red carpet for illegals. And De Blasio ended stop and frisk even where terror suspects are known to congregate.


HAYES: OK, there`s a lot of claims in there, including my favorite, he stopped the stop and frisk where terrorists are known to congregate like there`s some jihad corner where ISIS is out panhandling.

But let me give you Commissioner Bratton`s response to the 10 percent figure. Shocking -- Ted Cruz is wrong again in his radio ad, murders are down 20 percent in New York City. Stop and frisk never went away. Facts matter.

The murder numbers are just wrong. That`s an incorrect claim about the city in which 8 million people live.

FLORES: Well, a couple of things. One, Donald Trump will probably win his home state. Even John Kasich was able to win his home state. So, that`s not something we should maybe be waving the banner on.

Two, I think De Blasio has to a lot people been a fairly terrible mayor. I think not standing by the cops in his city has been a real problem.

HAYES: That`s the point, the point is there is a claim.

FLORES: Well, it`s part of the point.

HAYES: No. The point is that there is a claim in that add saying that murders have gone up 10 percent that is wholly unsupported by the data, that is fact untrue as rebutted by the man who would be in a good position to know, the man who runs the NYPD.

FLORES: Well, in fairness, Bratton has come out several times to say some fairly pariston things. So, I`m not exactly willing to take him at his word as this neutral arbiter.

But I do think...

HAYES: Homocide data is public data...

FLORES: ...don`t think that de Bladio has done a particularly good job. In fact, they think the city has gone downhill when he has taken over due to his partisan ideology that he thought he would prove some larger point.

HAYES: I understand.

Yes. Let me stipulate another thing, people whose politics align with Ted Cruz don`t like mayor Bill de Blasio. Absolutely true. It is still the case that there`s a factual claim made in that ad about an incredibly important subject which is the number of New Yorkers being killed that he`s just flat out wrong and if proven to be flat out wrong by public data, should they not rescind that ad?

FLORES: I don`t know the statistics you`re looking at and I don`t know the statistics the Cruz campaign is looking at.

But I will say that I don`t know the Cruz campaign has gone out and made ust wildly false accusations. So, I`m not willing to take you at your word either.

I do think that New York City has downhill in a lot of people`s estimation, and that Ted Cruz is making a valid point about the leadership under de Blasio that has argubably caused that.

HAYES: I will say in conclusion that I think probably as much as Ted Cruz would love to have Bill de Blasio for an enemy. Bill de Blasio would love to have Ted Cruz for an enemy right back. It probably works out for both of them.

Sarah Isqur Flores, thank you for being with me tonight. Appreciate it.

FLORES: Thank you.

HAYES: Up next, why Ivanka and Eric Trump won`t be voting for their father this fall. And you`re going to want to pay attention to that, because it just might impact you too. Stay with us.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ivanka and Eric Trump unable to register because of the rules. Are the rules in New York unfair as well?

TRUMP: No. They had a long time register and they were unaware of the rules and they didn`t register in time. So, they feel very, very guilty.


HAYES: As we reported earlier this week, two of Donald Trump`s children won`t be able to vote for their own father in New York next Tuesday.

Both Eric and Ivanka Trump are registered to vote, but they`re not registered for an specific party.

So, they can`t vote in New York`s closed Republican primary. And they both missed the deadline to register as Republicans in the state by several months.

And last night Ivanka Trump who has emerged as probably the campaign`s most effective surrogate so far, frankly, explained what happened.


IVANKA TRUMP, DONALD TRUMP`S DAUGHTER: Well, I`m an independent and I`ve always voted based on the candidate as opposed to based on the party. And it was actually a very interesting experience -- we`re not a family of politicians where we haven`t been in politics very long. New York has one of the most onerous rules in terms of registration and it required us to register a long time ago, almost close to a year ago. And we didn`t do that.


HAYES: Now, an operation that was more on top of it would have probably made sure a candidate`s own child could vote for him. That said, here`s the thing, Ivanka Trump is absolutely right. Voting in New York State is an absolute disaster. And here`s why. New York doesn`t have early voting. And it doesn`t have same day registration even to cast a provisional ballot. On top of that, the dead lines to change your party affiliation to vote in the closed primary, or to register as a new voter are ridiculously early.

Ivanka and Eric Trump were registered to vote but not registered as Republicans. Records show they had no party affiliation. The deadline to change their party affiliation to Republican to vote delegation to Republican was way back in early October, 193 days before actually casting a ballot. And new voters had to register by late March, 25 days before they could cast their ballot.

Not only that, this year, New York will have three separate primaries, three separate dates on top of the general election. First you have a presidential primary day next week, that doesn`t include the senate and congressional primary, which isn`t until June 28. But then for some unknown reason -- well, it`s a complicated reason having to do with a lot of gridlock and fighting, there is yet another primary for state and city officials in September.

New York, in fact, does just about everything possible to keep voter turnout low. And that`s because the people who run the state kind of like it that way. Low voter turnout massively favors incumbents and incumbent interests.

So, you don`t have to shed a tear for Ivanka and Eric Trump, but there are a whole lot of other New Yorkers being kept out of the voting booth next Tuesday too.


HAYES: One week from today we will find out whether the longest serving Republican speaker of the house in American history, Dennis Hastert, will be sentenced to prison.

Last October he pleaded guilty to one felony count of illegally structuring bank withdrawls to evade reporting requirements, specifically the government contends that from 2012 to 2014 Hastert withdrew $952,000 in amounts under $10,000 each to avoid bank reporting requirements triggered when $10,000 or more is withdrawn.

In fact, according to the government`s court filings, Hastert`s previous cash withdrawls of $50,000 each (inaudible) from 2010 through April 2012 led various employees of the bank to be alerted.

Quoting from the government court filing, the risk management officer explained to the defendant the bank`s obligations under the bank secrecy act and the PATRIOT Act. Defendant stated he was aware of the law, but that PATRIOT Act was just for terrorism and he, defendant, was not a terrorist.

Hastert was speaker of the house when the PATRIOT Act was passed.

According to the court filing, the actual purpose of the withdrawls was topay an agreed upon total of $3.5 million to compensate individual A for sexual abuse of individual A committed by defendant when individual A was 14-years-old and defendant was his wrestling coach.

According to the government, individual A was not the only victim. The government alleges that Hastert sexually abused five students when he was a wrestling coach in Yorkville, Illinois.

The statute of limitations has expired on this alleged offenses, but it is the government`s position the underlying alleged activity should be considered at Hastert`s sentencing.

The government currently plans to present the testimony of an individual D at that sentencing hearing who, quote, told authorities that Hastert performed a sexual act on him in the school locker room when he was 17.

In their own court filing, Hastert lawyers contend that what happened between Hastert and individual A was ambiguous, but that Dennis deeply regrets the episode occurred.

Hastert`s lawyers do not legally contest the obligations of individual deed, but assert in all candor, he has not current recollection of the episode described by individual D.

Now, there are several things about this story that strike as important to emphasize. One is, if Hastert is indeed responsible for sexually abusing five teenagers, what kind of brazen denial was it to choose to go into public life where he would be in the spotlight.

Second, if Hastert was engaging in sexual abuse of teenagers before he got into public life, did he stop that kind of behavior after entering public life?

And third, how should we understand this news in light of what happened back in 1998? When the nation was caught up in a moral panic about the president of the United States`s consensual relationship with a grown woman. And it was at that same time Dennis Hastert ascended to the speakership after two previous Republican speakers faced allegations they, too, had had extramarital consensual heterosexual affairs that they later admitted to.

Hastert was the clean page, the blank slate, the small town wrestling coach who everyone loved. And yes, in case you were wondering, Congressman Dennis Hastert voted yes on all four articles of impeachment.

So, how does that vote look now?


HAYES: So, if you were watching the show I was just having a discussion with Cruz supporter Sarah Isqur Flores, and we had a little back and forth about a new Cruz campaign radio add that claims murders in New York City are up 10 percent.

Now, they apparently have just reedited the add and re-released it taking out that claim probably because that claim is demostrably not true.

The add simply says now murders are up, which also in contestable. In 2015, they were up from 2014, but in the first quarter of 2016, they are down and at historic lows.

OK, next item of business. Imagine for a moment you`re Donald Trump and when you got into this race you never actually wanted to be president, or you`re looking ahead to the general and thinking you don`t want to think about losing and possibly losing badly and you now find yourself in a bind.

But maybe there`s a way out. A contention convention in which Trump is denied the nomination could be the perfect exit strategy, that`s what GQ`s Drew Magary contends, writing, "you don`t need to be some insane truther to believe that Trump`s entire campaign was a publicity stunt that has spiraled out of control. If the Republican Party pries the nomination out of his stubby, cocktail frank fingers, he can say he technically won and then slip out the Quicken Loans Arena fire escape and discuss leaving a mob of angry voters in tattered party platforms behind him."

Joining me now, the one and only Drew Magary, the author of that piece, correspondent for GQ magazine; and MSNBC contributor Sam Seder, host of the Majority Report with Sam Seder.

Drew, I couldn`t tell how much this was trolling on your part or how much was a sincerely held belief about the internal emotional state of Donald Trump.

DREW MAGARY, GQ: No, no. It is totally sincere. It wasn`t a troll job. I think he would be generally relieved -- genuinely relieved if he was able to have an escape hatch out of the campaign in Cleveland, a literal escape hatch, too.

HAYES: So, I have seen these theories at the beginning of the guy basically did this to prove the haters wrong. And now he`s trapped in a situation where he`s either going to lose and have a huge blow to his ego, or he`s going to end of president of the United States, which he doesn`t actually want to be.

MAGARY: Yeah, or he would quit I think because he`s losing to both Hillary and Bernie by double digits. And he doesn`t want to quit because he has this sort of insane following. And unfortunately, they`re almost too loyal. Like they won`t let him just quit, right. If he quit they would tear his face off and they would use it as an oven mitt. Like he can`t do that. So, there`s no better way for him to sort of weasel out of it than to lose at the convention, because technically he can say he won and he can live in this sort of alternate reality where everything is wonderful and beautiful and we`re winning again and all that stuff.

But he never actually has to actually do anything.

And if you look at his ground game, it makes perfect, because he hasn`t done anything. And he`s in fact bragged about not doing anything as if it`s a virtue.

HAYES: Well, this would make sense of certain parts of the campaign that are hard to make sense of. It has essentially no employees. It has spent essentially no money. Its gotten its butt kicked in state after state on the ground, as see in Ted Cruz.

So, Sam, do you think this is a plausible theory?

SAM SEDER, MAJORITY REPORT: Oh, yes, of course.

HAYES: You really -- you think you buy this?

SEDER: Do I think it`s plausible that he did this as a publicity stunt and then he realized like the momentum is going forward? I mean, to be honest with you and this is, the theory that I held at the beginning, which was far less plausible than this one was that at one point he`s going to say like there`s an illness in my family and I owe it to my supporters to drop out if I can`t give 110 percent.

I mean, look, there`s some precedent for this. You know, Ross Perot left because there were government agents.

HAYES: The CIA was messing with his daughter`s wedding.

SEDER: I mean, look, I don`t know if that`s the case. Like the CIA was interfering in the wedding. But, you know, there`s a lot of stories about at one point Ross Perot said like, hey, when does this start getting fun again and if there`s been a time where Donald Trump -- if you see some of these rallies, he`s yelling like don`t hit anybody. That to me seems like somebody who is not having fun when you got to beg your supporters not to beat up a protester.

HAYES: OK. But here`s my problem with the theory, Drew. And I apply Occam`s razor to the ground game situation, Colorado, all the other states. I just think they`re bad at it. I think it`s an incompetent campaign in certain ways.

MAGARY: Oh, undoubtedly. They`re terrible at it.

HAYES: But I don`t think there`s like a grand plan here. I mean, it could be he`s bumbling towards this and discovers it as the kind of like deus ex machina that allows him the out. But I don`t think there`s any strategic push towards this.

MAGARY: Well, I think -- in terms of his ego, I think he thinks he`s someone with such a force of personality that all that stuff will take care of itself, right. But just all magic fairies will just amass the delegates for him as back up.

But if it doesn`t happen, I have to think that there`s a little part of his mind that is quite content with the idea of him losing at the convention and then he can slip out the fire escape while everyone is throwing rocks at each other. And then he just spend the rest of his life saying, oh, it was very unfair. I was treated very unfairly just the whole time.

HAYES: That is the better story to tell than I lost by Goldwater margins, which is another.


HAYES: But here`s the question. Here`s the other question, in order for him to want that as the out, he would have to recognize that he`s going to lose by Goldwater margins, which I don`t know if he will or not. No one knows the future. But he would have the believe the polling against him.

SEDER: Yeah. But this is a guy who filed for bankruptcy four times. So, he understands the concept of there`s at one point.

HAYES: You cut your losses.

SEDER: Exactly. I`ve got to pull the escape hatch and get out of here. And so, I don`t think this has been his planned all the along. But I doubly think this guy right now is looking for an exit strategy.

He reads the polls. He knows. He has changed his demeanor on the campaign trail which suggests that he realizes like he`s in some type of trouble here. And I think to a certain extent he could be boxed in.

You know, two or three months ago he`s riding high. He`s flying into a town. He does one event a week, or one every four days. People love him, they`re buying his scarves and his hats and everything`s looking rosey and all the sudden things have turned very, very dark for him.

HAYES: And they`re going to get even uglier.

There`s a guy -- Drew, I read your piece. And there`s a guy I follow on Twitter whose been saying from the beginning that this is like the plot of The Producers where the plot of The Producers is they try to create a Broadway play that loses money called Springtime for Hitler. It`s a huge hit and they can`t get out of it and that basically the Donald Trump campaign is The Producers of presidential campaigns.

MAGARY: Well, I don`t think he aimed to deliberately fail spectacularly so that he could, you know, amass investor money and stuff like that, but I do think he was the sort of guy who likes being told you should run for president some day. Like, I think there are certain celebrities that like being told that and they like sort of entertaining that fantasy.

And so if he gets his ass kicked at the convention, he can leave but he can say that he technically didn`t lose. He never lost. But that he can still entertain that, oh, what could have been.

HAYES: What could have been.

Well, I like being told that I should run for president, so if anyone wants to tell me that I`m constitutional eligible and 37 years old and natural born citizen. Drew Magary, Sam Seder, thank you both. Remember to hydrate there, Drew.

That is All In for this evening.