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All In with Chris Hayes, Transcript 12/1/2015

Guests: Jesse Jackson, Jamie Kalven, Grant Bosse, Howard Dean, Leroy Carhart, Wendy Davis

Show: ALL IN with CHRIS HAYES Date: December 1, 2015 Guest: Jesse Jackson, Jamie Kalven, Grant Bosse, Howard Dean, Leroy Carhart, Wendy Davis (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voice-over): Tonight on ALL IN -- RAHM EMANUEL, CHICAGO CITY MAYOR: This morning, I formally asked for his resignation. HAYES: Mayor Rahm Emanuel`s fires Chicago`s top cop as he faces backlash over the Laquan McDonald video. EMANUEL: He has become an issue rather than dealing with the issue and a distraction. HAYES: Reverend Jesse Jackson says that resignation is not enough. I`ll ask him if the mayor should be next. Then, the alleged Chris Christie comeback. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-NJ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There will be days you`ll see me on TV as president and you`ll say, God, I cannot believe he said that. HAYES: Why New Jersey`s largest newspaper says don`t` believe the hype. Plus, new reports of panic among GOP leaders and top donors who are both fed up and fearful of Trump. DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hey, there`s only one way you get to the top and it`s all through Trump. Let`s face it. HAYES: When ALL IN starts right now. (END VIDEOTAPE) HAYES: Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes. Today, just one week after the release of dashcam video showing the fatal police shooting of Laquan McDonald, the mayor of the third largest city in America announced he was firing the city`s top cop. That news was sudden that as of late as 8:00 a.m. this morning local time, Police Superintendent Garry McCarthy was doing his normal rounds of media interviews. By the afternoon, Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel had relieved him of his duties without citing any specific misconduct or incompetence related to the handling of the case of Laquan McDonald, the 17-year-old shot and killed last October by a Chicago police officer, an officer who was only charged with murder over a year later after a judge ordered the release of dashcam footage showing McDonald`s death. Instead, the mayor said he was firing Police Superintendent Garry McCarthy because he had become a distraction. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) EMANUEL: This morning, I formally asked for his resignation. At this point in this juncture for the city, given what we`re working on, he has become an issue rather than dealing with the issue and a distraction. REPORTER: Mr. McCarthy had become a distraction. There are a lot of questions in this room about you and your office. Have you become a distraction, as well? EMANUEL: Well, you`ll make that judgment. I think I`m doing my job and I try to do it every day and do it in a professional way. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Tonight, the attorney general of Illinois is now calling on the Department of Justice to formally investigate the Chicago Police Department, writing a letter to the Department of Justice, a department that has been dogged by persistent established allegations of misconduct for decades. We`ve covered many of those recent allegations as part of the reporting we`ve been doing around policing in Chicago for the past two years. In the summer of 2014, we confronted Mayor Emanuel about a report the police department which had reported a dramatic drop in homicides was manipulating the stats. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Do you have full faith that these statistics are not being duped? EMANUEL: Yes, absolutely, because -- look, the superintendent of the police department leadership very focused on intelligence, data-driven focus, through different methods and you can`t do what you need to do if the numbers are being messed with, number one. Number two, even the inspector general complimented the Chicago Police Department for the way they have been -- the integrity of their numbers. It doesn`t mean you can`t focus on if there are challenges all the time, but on their basic thrust and integrity of the numbers, absolutely. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Several months later, 17-year-old Laquan McDonald was shot and killed by a Chicago police officer. Since then, we`ve covered the difference made by a police union representative the night that McDonald was killed and reported widely in the media, and the autopsy slowing McDonald was shot 16 times. Back in February, we filed a Freedom of Information Act request asking the Chicago Police Department for the dashcam footage we had heard existed of the shooting. That request was rejected. An appeal was also rejected. Later, on an NBC Chicago report surfaced over an hour of surveillance video at a Burger King near the site of the shooting had been erased, something yet to be fully explained as of this broadcast. We spoke to the manager of the Burger King. This summer, we spoke to a former investigator with Chicago`s Independent Police Review Authority, a body which investigates all allegations an of police misconduct, about allegations that he was fired for finding officers at fault in several civilian shootings. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: So, are you saying that this essentially was rigged, that basically, your supervisors at IPRA were determined to get a finding of justified and if your team went out and did the legwork and found it to be unjustified and came back with that, they would say no and overrule you? LORENZO DAVIS, FORMER INVESTIGATOR: Yes, that`s exactly what I`m saying. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: It`s in this context of all that history that those allegations that Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel defended his response to the shooting death of Laquan McDonald and because of that history for many the firing is not enough. I spoke to Reverend Jesse Jackson founder of the Rainbow/Push Coalition and asked him for his reaction to the firing of the Chicago police superintendent this afternoon. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) JESSE JACKSON, RAINBOW/PUSH COALITION: Well, it`s very limited and it`s very late -- 13 months late, the policeman who had 18 citations against him killed this kid, shot 16 times. And nine police who saw it never challenged nor charged him. That`s the culture. It`s not enough to remove the head. It`s the culture. Besides, the police chief should not be the fall guy for this crisis alone. Who all saw the tape? Who authorized $5 million before there was even charges, for example? We need an independent prosecutor and we need federal oversight to have a local oversight group without subpoena power is insufficient. HAYES: The mayor`s argument today was that people are a little confused because they were essentially following protocol by not interfering with this independent investigation. They don`t want to get their fingerprints on that. They want to let the investigation run its course. Do you trust the mayor at this point that he is being straight with people when they say essentially this was all handled on the up and up? JACKSON: Well, I don`t trust the judgment in this instance not so much his integrity. You know, because of these tapes, trials have come about that would not have come about because we would have taken the police word for it. That`s why you have cameras, you can have an instant public view of what is going on. There`s no justifiable reason for suppressing the tapes for 13 months. And then after suppressing those tapes for 13 months, finally after resisting having to react after the judge has ruled the tapes must be made public. HAYES: You just mentioned the culture of the Chicago Police Department and obviously, there`s a long history that long predates this mayor or this superintendent in terms of how the department has gone about its work and criticisms of its accountability. Has this mayor sufficiently prioritized reforms of that department in your opinion? JACKSON: The cause has not changed sufficiently from Fred Hanrahan (ph), he tried to kill Bobby Rush but killed Fred Hampton and Mark Clark to John Burge (ph) and all the force, people into false confessions to Jason. It`s an unbroken line, and the culture of silence, the silence, the culture of don`t tell, the culture of suppression, the culture of lying, the culture of policemen afraid of other police does not change sufficiently. You know, while I`ve been focused on one kid that got shot, there are other tapes in other cases yet to be resolved, as well. As a matter of fact, we paid the last few years a half billion dollars in police misconduct -- while we`re threatening to lay off 5,000 teachers, a half billion in misconduct which could sustain the 5,000 teachers. And so, this is not -- and further more, while you have this killing, there have been 450 killings in Chicago this year, 450 -- 75 percent of those who have been killed, the murders have not been resolved, have not been solved. So that`s why there`s such a crisis in confidence. I really think we need federal oversight because we need investigation of all who saw the tape and what the actions were with subpoena power. HAYES: There`s a very strong editorial run in the "New York Times" yesterday in which a law professor formerly in Chicago, and now at Columbia basically says, essentially alleges that the pattern of this was a cover-up and that not only Superintendent McCarthy but Anita Alvarez, who`s a prosecutor at issue here who took 400 days to charge and Mayor Emanuel himself, that they should all lose their jobs, they should all step down. What do you think of that? JACKSON: Well, I think that`s why the federal oversight is so important. That all who saw the tape, who decided to suppress the tape for whatever reason they chose to do it, must also come under investigation. Without subpoena power, you will never get the truth about that. And that`s why there will be more action this weekend. We`re probably going to begin to go back to the streets in bigger numbers this weekend because until we get the police culture challenged, until we get a special prosecutor and federal oversight, we cannot stop while this momentum is moving as it is. HAYES: All right. Reverend Jesse Jackson, thanks for your time. JACKSON: Thank you, sir. (END VIDEOTAPE) HAYES: Joining me now, Jamie Kalven, independent journalist who first acquired and published Laquan McDonald`s autopsy findings, also executive director of the Invisible Institute. Jamie, this probably would not have come to light had you and Craig Futterman who we had on the show started looking into it because a whistleblower came to you and said, look, there`s a tape, there`s an investigation. I fear that we`re not getting the truth here. Are you confident now having seen the mayor`s press conference today that there`s a commitment on the part of the mayor, the Chicago police department to being accountable and transparent? JAMIE KALVEN, INDEPENDENT JOURNALIST: Not confident, but somewhat encouraged. I think a step was taken today. A week ago, the mayor made a statement in connection with the release of the video that said in effect, there`s one person accountable for what happened to Laquan McDonald, Jason Van Dyke the officer who shot him. Today, the language was very different. He was talking about long- standing systemic problems. He was talking about the structural institutional conditions that breed abuse and shield it. It`s only a beginning but it is a beginning. I agree with Reverend Jackson that the firing of Garry McCarthy is not reform in itself. We in Chicago have over the years seen a recurring pattern with the daily administration, particularly of scandal or crisis erupts, the head of -- the commissioner is fired, a blue ribbon commission is appointed. And then pretty quickly, public attention moves elsewhere and the status quo reasserts itself. I think the challenge here is to ensure that that doesn`t happen. But I see an opportunity for really significant police reform. And -- I mean, it`s very poignant that it emerges out of the almost wholly negative example of how the city responded to the shooting of Laquan McDonald. HAYES: The mayor has announced a task force. You mentioned a task force, the mayor announced a task force. Deval Patrick among others who was born in Chicago, hasn`t lived there for a while, will be on it. The mayor made this defense when you talk about the handling, and I think part of the reason there`s anger and frustration or skepticism, look, this happened 400 days ago. People knew that this tape was around and knew enough to approve a $5 million settlement and it kind of looks to everyone on the outside like you just came together in the last minute because the tape got released. This is the mayor defending essentially the procedures they took. Take a listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) EMANUEL: Now, there`s a common practice across the country, and there`s a practice in place here in the city of Chicago. You don`t hinder, you don`t compromise an ongoing investigation. Yet, it`s clear you all want and the public deserves that information. There are two conflicting principles. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Do you think that`s true? KALVEN: You know, I think that`s oversimplification of the issue that many jurisdictions have faced in the last year. I mean, since Laquan McDonald was shot, there have been a number of instances that are akin to this one. I think the most notable one is in Cincinnati, you`ll recall, there was the shooting of a motorist by a campus police officer. Again, you know, a grotesque episode. Cincinnati which has really checkered ugly history of police abuse and impunity in recent years has been working on its culture and systems and oversight and procedures, and had adopted before that shooting a rule -- I`m not exactly sure of the time period -- but that relevant evidence such as a video would be released within 24 or 48 hours of the occurrence of the incident, unless there was a compelling specific investigative reason to withhold it longer. In the case of the shooting in Cincinnati, I think they released a week later, a week after the shooting. And the reason they held on to it was a couple of other officers had given essentially false statements supporting the shooter`s account and they wanted to use the video to nail those officers. That seems to me to be what real accountability looks like. I think the mayor was framing a false issue with his on the one hand, on the other hand. This is public information. HAYES: Yes, and we should be clear, right? The judge ruled that. This was released because a FOIA was successfully litigated, the FOIA that you pursued to get the autopsy ball rolling. And I should just say that your work on this, you`re a tremendous journalist and have been for a long time on these issues, your work on this case has been particularly crucial. So, thank you for that. Jamie Kalven, appreciate it. KALVEN: I appreciate that. HAYES: All right. Still ahead, after Chris Christie picks up a major endorsement from New Hampshire, the biggest newspaper in the state he currently governs is firing back. Plus, could the GOP withstand the shock waves of a Donald Trump nomination? Why Republicans are worried about losing more than the White House? Those stories and more ahead. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: This term, the Supreme Court will decide its first major abortion case since 2007, a challenge to the Texas law that bans abortion after 20 weeks and a severely diminished the number of clinics available to women in that state. That law is part of a broad and sophisticated movement in this country to limit women`s access to safe and legal abortion. Ahead, our "All In America" special report on how anti-abortion activists are succeeding and reaction from former Texas State Senator Wendy Davis. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: After New Jersey Governor Chris Christie locked up the endorsement of "The New Hampshire Union Leader", the bigger paper in the state he`s visited, according to "Politico", 49 times, where he`s hosted 36 official town halls and held more than 112 events, the biggest newspaper in his own state is firing back. "The New Jersey Star Ledger" which in 2013 endorsed him for governor only to call that decision regrettable a year later writing, quote, "Yes, we blew this one". Well, today, they have a piece titled, "You won`t believe why New Hampshire`s top paper endorsed Christie." "Star Ledger`s" editorial board called up "The Union Leader`s" editorial page editor, "a very nice guy by the name of Grant Bosse", in essence to try and understand why his paper decided to endorse Governor Christie and to find out how much they knew about his actual record as governor. "The Star Ledger" writes, quote, "The New Hampshire Union Leader knows almost nothing about his record as governor. Take Bridgegate, the editorial made no mention of it. How about pension reform? The board of Manchester did not know that Christie broke his core promise on that by skipping pension payments." Bosse responded, quote, "I don`t know if we went into the weeds on pension reform." Well, joining me now is Grant Bosse, the editorial page editor of "The New Hampshire Union Leader". Mr. Bosse, how do you plead here? Basically the home state paper says you guys don`t know the full record. GRANT BOSSE, THE NEW HAMPSHIRE UNION LEADER: Well, that`s not true. And at this point, the star ledger is Chris Christie`s crazy ex-girlfriend. They dated him in 2013. They broke up with him last year, and now, they`re going around town bad mouthing anybody that he takes out to dinner. So, I don`t think they have a lot of credibility when it comes to Chris Christie. HAYES: Do you really want to stick with that? BOSSE: We think he was a great governor. HAYES: You want to stick with that metaphor, Mr. Bosse? BOSSE: Yes, they`re just going around saying bad things. Maybe their headline should have been newspaper that endorses Christie slams newspaper that endorses Christie. HAYES: What about this? Let`s take the star ledger out of it. Does it factor into your process the fact that he really is very unpopular right now in the state of New Jersey? He`s underwater in approval rating. A vast majority of New Jerseyans want him to quit the presidential race, and that compares to someone like say John Kasich also a governor, also in this race who has quite a favorable view among the people in the state he governs. BOSSE: Well, traditionally and this year we don`t put a lot of stock in polls. We look at who we think would be the best president, who we think would be the best nominee, you follow the Buckley rule and nominate the most conservative candidate who can win. We think that`s Chris Christie. HAYES: So, you think the voters of New Jersey are just wrong basically when they assess their own governor`s possible performance at president? BOSSE: I think the voters of New Jersey were right in 2009 and they were right in 2013, and he`s been a good governor. HAYES: What do you think has been so good about his governing? BOSSE: He`s a fiscal conservative in a Democratic state. You look at other governors who got pretty good records, Governor Jindal and Walker and Perry are out of the race. Governor Bush and Walker have good records. But they`re all governors in Republican states. They kind of have the home field advantage. When you`re a pro-life, anti-tax conservative Republican like Chris Christie, every day is a road game. And he`s shown he can win on the road in a blue state. He`s balanced six budgets in a row, he`s vetoed 70 tax increases, he`s passed pension reform, he`s passed teacher tenure reform for New Jersey schools. He`s had real conservative accomplishments in a blue state. We think that would serve him very well in Washington. HAYES: But he`s also -- I mean, part of the problem, right, is he`s also reneged on that pension reform. He`s kicked the can down the road on the payment. He`s overseen nine credit downgrades. He`s overseen an economy that has lagged behind the national economy in terms of recovery and things like that can job creation. BOSSE: Well, you want to talk pensions? Let`s talk pensions. He`s put $4 billion into the pension system, more than all New Jersey governors before him combined. He passed significant reform to the pension plan. And the problem came when you were looking for the next step to try to address not just pensions but retiree health. He put out a road map and the Democrats walked away. The unions walked away and stopped the next step. In fact, back in, I believe it was August -- (CROSSTALK) HAYES: Right. But he did skip the payments. BOSSE: -- said the governor`s road map would have greatly helped the state`s long-term fiscal plan. HAYES: Well, let me ask you this -- you said something interesting this morning on our air about climate change. Take a listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you believe in climate change? CHRISTIE: Sure. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s occurring. CHRISTIE: But climate`s always changing. And we cannot say, we cannot say that our activity doesn`t contribute to changing the climate. What I`m saying is, it`s not a crisis. I don`t buy the fact that it`s a crisis. I don`t buy the fact that it`s a crisis. I just don`t. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why not? CHRISTIE: Because I don`t believe it is. I don`t think there`s any evidence that it`s a crisis. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: What do you think of a governor who oversaw Hurricane Sandy who was there when 100-year storm hit his own state, put much of it underwater says it`s not a crisis? BOSSE: Are you saying that super storm sandy was caused by global warming, Chris? Come on. You`ve got no evidence of that. You`re just making that up. HAYES: I`m sorry? No, no -- BOSSE: There`s no evidence. HAYES: There`s no one specific cause. You realize the sea level was already higher due to global warming. There`s actually pretty good reporting that shows that hundreds if not thousands of homes were flooded that wouldn`t have been in the absence of climate change raising the water level. BOSSE: That`s ridiculous. We`ve got a president that wants to take on climate change and won`t take on ISIS. He says the real enemy is cynicism. Forgive me if I`m a little cynical about that. We need a president that thinks that national security is the real priority and the real threat and the real crisis, and not climate change. HAYES: There`s been -- if I`m not mistaken, I think 9,000 airstrikes overseen by this president of ISIS. Just for the record. Grant Bosse, thanks for joining us. Bernie Sanders underwent elective surgery. And after waking up, the first words out of his mouth are just too good not to share. That`s next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: We`re leading in everything. The biggest crowds by far, so much bigger than Bernie Sanders. You always hear about Bernie Sanders. Our crowds, no -- (BOOS) May he rest in peace. You know he had an operation today. I think it was a hernia operation. You know? You know why? Carrying around too much tax problems. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: He`ll be here all week, ladies and gentlemen. Despite what may have been implied by Donald Trump last night saying of Bernie Sanders and I`m quoting here "may he rest in peace," Bernie Sanders is alive and well following a hernia procedure in Washington yesterday. In fact, Sanders was already back on the Senate floor this afternoon defending Planned Parenthood and blasting a GOP budget bill to effectively appeal Obamacare. There are a couple things you can find admirable about Bernie Sanders. The first is his apparent indefatigability. At age 74, Sanders is a near constant presence on the campaign trail and he isn`t neglecting his duties during his presidential run. Sanders missed only 3 percent of his Senate votes in the first nine months of this year, a far better record than any of the other senators running for president except for Rand Paul.

The other trait anyone should be able to admire about Sanders is he really does believe what he says he believes. His consistency, which he has maintained over the course of a political career that began in 1981.

Yesterday, after Sander`s hernia procedure, these two traits came together. True to form, Sanders first words upon leaving the recovery room, according to his spokesman were, quote, "medicare for all," a reference to Sander`s universal health care plan.

Sanders is scheduled to get back out on the road this week. If the fiery speech he gave on the senate floor today is any indication, looks like he won`t be slowing down one bit.


HAYES: For Republicans who fear that Hillary Clinton is poised to win the presidency, they`ve been able to take solace in one pretty undeniable fact.

Even with a Democrat in the oval office, Republicans have a huge advantage down ballot that gives them massive power to shape policy. Republicans have unified control of 25 states, they control 70% of state legislatures and more than 60% of governors. And of course, the GOP controls both the house and the senate, giving Republicans the ability to block much of any Democratic president`s agenda. Well, Republicans are now coming to terms with what for them is a pretty frightening possibility.

Donald Trump wins the GOP presidential nomination, and then, the thinking goes, he loses the general election by a huge margin, and takes the party down with him.

The New York Times reports today that many leading Republican officials, strategists and donors now say they fear that Mr. Trump`s nomination would lead to an electoral wipeout, one that would likely cost the party the senate and mean big loses at the state level.

Senator Lindsey Graham, one of Trump`s presidential rivals, told The Times a Trump nomination would be a quote, "utter, complete and total disaster." Adding, "if you`re a xenophobic, race-baiting religious bigot, you`re going to have a hard time being president of the United States, and you`re going to do irreparable damage to the party."

Top Republican officials and donors are reportedly wary of taking on Trump because they fear their attacks could backfire. And they also don`t want Trump, never shy about insulting his critics, to come after them personally.

At this point, The Times reports, almost everyone in the Republican party`s upper echelons agrees something must be done, and almost no one is willing to do it.

Trump himself just wrapped up a campaign rally in New Hampshire, where he cast himself as the candidate the GOP has been waiting for.


DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I backed McCain, he lost. I backed Mitt Romney, he lost. This time I said, now I`m going to do it myself, right? I`m doing it myself. No, I`m doing it myself.


HAYES: Joining me now, MSNBC political analyst, former Vermont governor Howard Dean, former chair of the Democratic National Committee.

So there`s these reports about all these conversations that are happening in quiet rooms with people, big donors, people that have influence, the senator of Republican networks about what to do about Trump.

Is there anything they can do?

HOWARD DEAN, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: They could but they won`t.

They could find one established candidate that they all could coalesce behind and that person might be able to beat Donald Trump, maybe. But then, in order to do that, they`ve got to get a lot of people to give up their dreams and that`s not going to happen.

HAYES: Right, so right now he is -- one of the huge advantages he has -- I mean, you have to keep reminding yourself, right? I mean, this is someone who`s leading the pack with 28% of the vote, 34% of the vote. Right?

It`s him against the field, right?

DEAN: Right.

HAYES: So you`re saying that if you could actually strong arm people into dropping out, if you could get that field down and coalesce, you think that`s probably the best shot.

DEAN: I think it is their best shot, but the problem is they`re probably going to let the voters do it for them as they usually do. And, by that time, it may be too late.

I said before on this show, March 15th, the first winner take all primary is Florida. That is where Donald Trump could wrap up the nomination.

HAYES: Well, here`s where you and I have discussed this before. You are very different individual, politician with views than Donald Trump I want to stipulate. But, I remember in 2004 when you were -- the Dean campaign was this phenomenon. And I remember reading articles back then that read a lot like that article I read today, which was, these freaked out conversations happening among the Democratic party, elders and donors being like, what the heck do we do? How do we bring him down?

DEAN: Robert Gibbs ran a Pac funded by donors from Wes Clark, Dick Gephardt, Joe Lieberman and Kerry, which went after me and had me merging into Osama Bin Laden and all this kind of stuff.

It`s a hard business we`re in here.

HAYES: I remember. That was after Saddam Hussein was found? And you said something like, I don`t think this makes us any safer, which let`s be clear --

DEAN: Which was true, but proven not a smart thing to say.

HAYES: Well, sometimes those two categories are mutually exclusive.

So how much though did that end up being what hurt you, and how much does that sort of -- how much does establishment, money or establishment doesn`t even matter, right?

DEAN: Here`s the difference. The difference is that a lot of -- I really brought my own wood to the fire. I was an insurrectionist and at the end of the day, it`s hard to nominate an insurrectionist to be president of the United States. And I was trying to make the turn and I couldn`t do it, which is my failing.

But the thing is, I think the Republicans could nominate an insurrectionist. It`s their own fault. They`ve been feeding this beast since 1968 with Richard Nixon and the southern strategy, and now they can`t stop it. It`s a monster of their own creation.

HAYES: Why is it different, though this time? We`ve seen -- you saw Buchanan, I remember watching, as a kid watching those New Hampshire primary returns in it must have been `92, right? When Buchanan wins New Hampshire against H.W.

You know, they`ve had flirtations with these kind of candidates before. Every time they come back home.

DEAN: Pat Buchanan had no money. Donald Trump`s got plenty of money. They`re super PACs, they`re all kinds of things. The parties are so much weaker now than they were then, and they were weaker then than they were 50 years ago.

The party essentially has no influence on either side.

HAYES: That to me is the key. When you read about these elder statesmen, when you read about basically a lot of billionaires, conservative billionaires who want to have a president in the White House who will take their calls, that`s what it comes down to.

DEAN: Right. And hat has totally neutered the party, and the Republican party is in deep trouble despite -- I know it seems like a weird thing to say when they control all the things you just showed on the screen, but they`re really in trouble because their base doesn`t look anything like the rest of the country and they`re getting older every day.

HAYES: Yeah, but I`ve heard that for so long. There`s still a lot of juice left in that orange, politically.

I mean, there`s still a lot of votes there.

DEAN: There`s some very adept operatives. This business of restricting people`s right to vote, gerrymandering. Eventually the voters win. They`re going to win.

HAYES: We`re going to find out. Eventually the voters win, says Howard Dean.

Great to have you.

Ahead, new reporting on the dwindling doubt about the motive in the attack on Planned Parenthood in Colorado Springs, and then our All In America report on the decades long struggle for access to safe abortions. We`ll look how anti- abortion activists are successfully taking America back to a pre Roe V Wade world.


Today MSNBC is the celebrating Giving Tuesday, a global day dedicated to giving back. A simple idea as we near the end of the year and scramble to purchase holiday gifts, a reminder to devote some of our time, money and energy to organizations and people who do difficult, good work for others.

To learn more, visit GIVINGTUESDAY.MSNBC.COM. There are thousands of worthwhile charities that can benefit from a donation, of course.

We at All In, me personally, would like to draw your attention to Doctors Without Borders. They are winners of a Nobel Peace Prize, a group of tremendously admirable, courageous and dedicated individuals who provide medical care in the midst of active war zones across the world, often at great personal risk, as illustrated by the American Air strikes that killed at least 30 people, including 13 staff members of Doctors Without Borders in Afghanistan just this year.

The work that those doctors do is simply irreplaceable, and you can help them do it. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAYES: We`re learning more about Robert Dear, the man who killed three people and wounded nine others, a semi-automatic rifle at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado Springs.

It appears that Dear has been as opposed to Planned Parenthood for decades.

The woman who was married to Dear from 1985 to 1993 said today, Dear once put glue in the locks of a Planned Parenthood clinic near where they were living at the time. That was over 20 years ago when he did that she said.

Meanwhile, The New York Times spoke with several people who knew Dear. One person telling The Times that Dead had praised people who attack abortion providers, saying they were doing "God`s work", and called members of one extremist anti-abortion group heroes.

Now violence against abortion providers and clinics in the scope of anti-abortion activism is but a tiny fraction, and it`s often refuted and condemned by the larger, more mainstream parts of the movement.

But it is one part of the movement that across the spectrum is devoted through various means, some legal and some not, to making sure women don`t get abortions, even if the Supreme Court says the Constitution guarantees them that right.


DR. LEROY CARHART, ABORTION PROVIDER: We were one of the few hospitals in the United States in 1970 that was doing abortions. I did my first apportion before Roe V Wade.

That`s where we took care of so many of the patients that had problems with their either self tempted or back alley abortions.

HAYES: And that converted you in some way?

CARHART: It didn`t convert me. I think it just awakened me that this was just, you know, somebody had to do it and there was a -- an innate wrong. It was wrong not to do it.

HAYES: Before 1973, abortion was illegal across much of the country. To receive proper medical care, a woman not only had to have enough money, but she had to live in or near just a handful of states.

And if she didn`t, she had little choice but to terminate her pregnancy on her own.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: She had opened out a hair pin, placed it within the cervix.

HAYES: It was a public health crisis.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It would have a permanent effect on me psychologically. because I`m not capable of being a mother at this time.

HAYES: But that all changed when a challenge to the status quo found its way to the Supreme Court.

SARAH WEDDINGTON, ATTORNEY: We are not here to advocate abortion. We are here to advocate that the decision as to whether or not a particular woman will continue to carry or will terminate a pregnancy is a decision that should be made by that individual.

HAYES: The landmark ruling in Roe versus Wade transformed women`s health care as we know it.

DR. ALAN GUTTMACHER, PLANNED PARENTHOOD: January 22nd, 1973 will stand out as one of the great days for freedom and free choice.

HAYES: It also gave rise to a permanent cultural and political backlash.

MSGR. EUGENE CLARK, NEW YORK ARCHDIOCESE: Whatever their legal rationale, seven men have made a tragic utilitarian judgment regarding who shall live and who shall die.

HAYES: By the 1990s, the abortion wars took to the streets. And a new legal challenge made its way to the Supreme Court. Planned Parenthood versus Casey.

KATIE COURIC, JOURNALIST: We`re receiving word after an important decision from the U.S. Supreme Court involving abortion.

HAYES: At issue were provisions in a Pennsylvania law that restricted a woman`s access to abortion.

The court handed down a divided decision.

Abortion remained a constitutional right for women across the country, but it was a right that could be restricted by individual states.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The court upheld provisions of the law requiring abortion counseling, a 24-hour waiting period and parental consent for minors.

KATE MUCHELMAN, NATIONAL ABORTION ACTION LEAGUE: What the court did today is devastating for women.

HAYES: In the decades since, the court has affirmed and sometimes expanded the ways in which states can restrict access to abortion.

And it is under that legal framework that many states today are targeting abortion services.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Missouri will now have one of the toughest abortion laws in the nation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Overnight from Texas, where the senate has approved one of the most restrictive abortion bills in the country.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Signed one of the nation`s strictest anti- abortion bills into law.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Virginia is set to enact one of the toughest anti-abortion bills in the country.

HAYES: The rise of Republican controlled state houses has paved the way for an onslaught of anti-choice legislation.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They want to ban abortion. They can`t ban abortion by overturning Roe. They found out that that doesn`t work.

So what do they do? They pull it apart piece by piece, they add in waiting periods. They prohibit your health plan from covering abortion. They limit how medication can be provided. They ban certain methods of abortion.

It makes it incredibly difficult for providers to do their job, and for women to access services.

HAYES: In just the last four years, states have enacted over 230 abortion restrictions. Much of it designed to make it more difficult for women to get access to care, or in some cases, close clinics all together.

And now, some state houses are targeting abortion by closing the window within the pregnancy in which a woman can have one.

In 2010, Nebraska did just that.

COURIC: The governor signed an unprecedented law banning abortions after the 20th week or fifth month of pregnancy.

HAYES: The law took aim at the practice of Doctor Leroy Carhart. Dr. Carhart performs abortions after 20 weeks of pregnancy, when many birth defects and health complications are discovered.

MIKE FLOOD, NEBRASKA STATE SENATOR: I didn`t find this bill, it found Nebraska, and that we have a provider in this state that wants to perform late term abortions.

HAYES: With the signing of that bill, Carhart began traveling to Maryland to perform abortions after 20 weeks and was greeted by protests.

REV. PATRICK MAHONEY, CHRISTIAN ACTIVIST: We will not be complacent while women are being brutalized and viable children are dying.

HAYES: What Dr. Carhart experienced in Nebraska has now expanded to nearly a dozen states, where similar or in some cases stricter measures are in effect. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`re adopting laws, the laws are going into effect and women are falling by the wayside because they can`t access services when they need them.

HAYES: It`s fueled a climate of intimidation and harassment, leaving the few people left trying to provide those services to live under constant threat.

Over the years, Dr. Carhart has received multiple threats of violence, both at his clinic and his home.

After the family barn burned down, killing horses and pets, Carhart got a letter saying it was in retaliation for the work he did.

In 2009, his friend and colleague, Dr. George Tiller, was assassinated while at church.

Do you worry about your security?

CARHART: The only thing we can do is try to protect our self the best we can. There`s no way it`s going to get between me and the mission that I`ve chosen.

HAYES: The anti-abortion movement in this country may not have succeeded in getting Roe overturned, but they are on track to achieving the same goal.

CARHART: It`s even deeper than eliminating all abortions. I think the agenda is still to take away the right of a woman to control her fertility. That`s where I really think the basic issue is.

HAYES: 45 years ago, a woman could get an abortion in America if she lived in the right place and had the means to do so. What Roe did was guarantee that right to every woman in every state.

But the future we are now entering looks a whole lot like the past.


HAYES: Next, former State Senator Wendy Davis famously filibustered in 2013 to block a bill intended to place more restrictions on abortion access in Texas.

She joins me life just after the break.


HAYES: One of the states where restrictions on abortion access have had the most impact is Texas, where in 2013, state legislatures passed a bill banning the procedure after 20 weeks and imposing onerous and medically unnecessary requirements on providers.

Since then, many clinics have been unable to meet those requirements and forced to close.

And now, according to a University of Texas study, the lack of access may be driving Texas women to take matters in their own hands.

Just a few weeks ago, the Supreme Court agreed to hear a challenge to the Texas law known as HB2, the first major abortion case to reach the high court in eight years.

Joining me now, former State Senator, Wendy Davis, a Democrat from Texas who filibustered that law.

What are the stakes, from your perspective, of this Supreme Court case?

WENDY DAVIS, FORMER TEXAS STATE SENATOR: The stakes are huge, and they`re not just huge for Texas women. They`re huge for women all over the country.

If the court affirms the law in Texas and allows it to be fully implemented, I have no doubt that other states will immediately follow suit in enacting some of the very same provisions.

HAYES: Can you imagine, I mean you`re a lawyer, and you (inaudible) here. Can you imagine a scenario in which the court, recognizing what a kind of disruptive and seismic reversal it would be to overturn Roe, essentially carves out this kind of path in which they allow greater and greater restrictions while upholding Roe, and you get more and more Texas style laws while abortion remains at least in name a constitutional right.

DAVIS: If the court upholds this law, they will gut Roe versus Wade. There`s no question about it.

And the consequences of it will put us back to a pre-Roe condition in this country for so many women who will no longer have access to abortion care.

It`s because of that that I believe the court is not going to uphold the provisions that are being challenged here, and is going to understand that there is an absolute undue burden that`s been placed on women in Texas as a consequence of this law.

We saw from the report that you referenced earlier, Chris, that women are now having to wait around a 20-day longer period of time before they can access abortion care. There`s no question it makes it less safe for them and their health in order to wait later in a pregnancy to receive an abortion.

And, as you said in that report, it certainly is demonstrating an indication that women in Texas have now once again, like pro -- pre-Roe, taken matters into their own hands and self-induced abortions.

HAYES: One of the sort of remarkable feats of the anti-abortion movement is to create these repairs different pair barriers and so, one of the things we`ve seen as a timeline, you know, there`s legislation that bans the procedure after a certain period, say 20 weeks. Then there`s legislation that makes it harder to actually get an abortion.

And so women find themselves with this window in which it`s legal and possible to obtain an abortion and that window keeps getting squeezed quite intentionally by people trying to essentially get rid of abortion.

DAVIS: There`s no question about it. And when you look at the further squeeze, the squeeze that happened in Texas in 2011 and continued in 2013 and even in the last legislative session of 2015, there`s a further effort to defund the contraceptive and family planning portion of reproductive health care in the state of Texas. And clearly there`s a desire to do that at the national level as well.

It`s no accident that there is a call for defunding Planned Parenthood.

The people who are calling for that understand that 97% of the work that Planned Parenthood does has nothing to do with abortion but instead has to do with helping to prevent unplanned pregnancies, cancer screens and other care that`s so vital and important for men and women in this country.

And it goes to the comment on the video earlier that this is about so much more than taking away a woman`s right to abortion, and instead is really going and getting to the issue of controlling women because when women`s reproductive autonomy is controlled, their economic opportunity is controlled. There`s no question about it.

HAYES: All right. Wendy Davis, thank you.

And that is All In for this evening. The Rachel Maddow show is coming up next. Good evening, Rachel.