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All In with Chris Hayes, Transcript 11/04/15

Guests: Quentin Tarantino

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voice-over): Tonight on ALL IN -- QUENTIN TARANTINO, FILMMAKER: I have to call the murdered the murdered and I have to call the murderers the murderers. HAYES: Quentin Tarantino joins me for his first TV interview since those comments at a rally against police brutality. Why he`s not backing down as police unions call for a boycott of his film. Then, what fueled the Republican wins last night? MATT BEVIN (R), KENTUCKY GOVERNOR-ELECT: This is a great night for the Republican Party in this state of Kentucky. HAYES: And what it may or may not say about the 2016 race. Plus, a stunning twist in the death of an Illinois cop known as G.I. Joe. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are no winners here. HAYES: Why investigators say the officer staged his suicide. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gliniewicz committed the ultimate betrayal. HAYES: And Jeb Bush hits a new low. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This morning, 4 percent. Did you ever think you`d be - - JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don`t even care. It`s not relevant. HAYES: As Ben Carson dethrones Donald Trump as front runner. DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We need strength now. We don`t need Ben Carson. HAYES: When ALL IN starts right now. (END VIDEOTAPE) HAYES: Good evening, from New York. I`m Chris Hayes. With one year before the presidential election and yesterday`s off year election now officially in the books, the bewildering paradoxes of American politics and never more evident. On the surface, the Republican Party appears to be in chaos. Front runners in the GOP presidential race are a reality TV star and a former neurosurgeon with no political experience, with a few clear policy positions and a penchant for offensive historical analogies and extreme statements. And last night, Donald Trump retweeted a photo collage affixed with the words "adios Jeb aka Jose", which included a swastika and a photoshopped image of Jeb Bush in a sombrero. Trump has since deleted it. As for Jeb Bush, the anointed candidate of the GOP establishment, the man who is supposed to be able to win the general election, he is polling in the single digits. And the GOP controlled House is being led a speaker who had to be cajoled into the job and who must contend with the far right contingent drawn to overreach and ideologically oppose to compromise. Yet despite all that, the Republican Party still has a whole lot to feel good about, including what happened yesterday in Kentucky which had one of the last bastions of Democratic governance in the south. Tea Party aligned Republican Matt Bevin won a big victory in the governor`s race despite concerns he was too extreme to win a general election. Bevin, both an economic conservative, who`s threatened to reverse Democratic incumbent Governor Steve Beshear`s implementation of Obamacare and a social conservative who threw his support behind anti-gay Kentucky county clerk Kim Davis who he visited in jail. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BEVIN: I`m proud for the fact that this is a great night for the Republican party in the state of Kentucky. I`m also -- (APPLAUSE) I`m also grateful for the fact that more importantly this is a great night nor conservatives in the state of Kentucky. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: It`s also a great night for social conservatives in Houston, Texas, where the message "no men in women`s bathrooms" was used a successful campaign to get voters to block by a wide margin an anti-discrimination ordinance protecting gay and trans people, as well as other people. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ANNISE PARKER (D), HOUSTON MAYOR: This was a campaign of fear-mongering and deliberate lies, deliberate lies. This isn`t misinformation. This is a calculated campaign of lies designed to demonize a little understood minority. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: And there`s a larger story, which the cold hard numbers made clear. In addition to controlling both houses of Congress, Republicans control 70 percent of state legislatures, more than 60 percent of governors, 55 percent of attorneys general and secretaries of state. Republicans have unified control of 25 states, that`s both houses of the state legislature plus the governorship, while Democrats only have unified control of seven states. Consider this: under President Obama, Democrats have lost more than 900 seats in state legislatures across the country -- 900. With one year until the presidential election, both major parties have reasons to feel confident and both have reason to be terrified. And who better to join me to discuss that than the party`s two prospects are people that understand them, MSNBC political analyst Michael Steele, former chair of the RNC, MSNBC political analyst Howard Dean, former chair of the DNC. Gentlemen, the two of you both excelled I think in your respective chairmanships in listening to and building out the grassroots, building capacity. Governor Dean, you were in charge in the run-up 2006, 2008, which saw tremendous Democratic victories and a real build-out of the party`s capacity in 50 states. Michael Steele, you were in charge in the run-up to 2010, which sort of began the big Tea Party backlash and taking back of the House. So I want to get your sense of where the parties are and I`ll start with you, Governor Dean. Given some of the numbers we have seen, the 900 state legislative seats, the 25 parties unified control, the numerous House and Senate seats lost. What is going on in the Democratic Party at the local level? HOWARD DEAN, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Nothing. That`s the problem. I mean, we had a 50-state strategy when I came in. We didn`t control the House, the Senate or the presidency. By the time I left, we controlled all three. If you want to -- you have to sustain that. You can`t just have a Democratic president and say, oh boy, this is just great and now we can do something else. You have to have resources in state parties. You have to have organizations in state parties, even places you don`t think we can win, because if you don`t do that, we`re never going to win those states. HAYES: Is that -- I mean, what are -- but be explicit here. Was the trajectory altered after you left the DNC? DEAN: Oh, sure. HAYES: Strangled off? DEAN: Here`s what happens. There`s nobody I blame for this. Historically, when a Democratic president or a Republican president for the RNC comes in, the party becomes the election -- re-election vehicle for the president and this is why the senatorial committee and congressional committee exist because the Congress people and Senate people got tired of the DNC, taking the resources for the president`s campaign and happened again, and this is the result. Now, let`s not hang crate. We had some big wins. HAYES: Right. DEAN: Democracy for America was very involved in getting the Pennsylvania Supreme Court re-elected so that they can stop gerrymandering. HAYES: Big wins in Pennsylvania supreme court, the school board race that was much noticed in Colorado. DEAN: Yes. HAYES: Where progressives were able to successfully recall some folks. DEAN: Seattle, there was some progressive stuff passed there. So, this is not -- tonight is not a disaster but the four years or the six years has not been great. HAYES: So let`s flip it around to you, Michael Steele, because at the state level, right, here`s the map. That shows the GOP dominance of state legislatures across the country. Much of which has been a product of the Obama era. But here`s, you know, here`s -- here`s the question, right? I mean, Mitt Romney lost Latinos by 40 points. The Electoral College is such that the next Democratic nominee can lose three or four states that Barack Obama won, and still win the presidency, right? MICHAEL STEELE, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. HAYES: In that way, it`s an uphill battle at the national level and if you go back and you read that postmortem by the RNC after 2012, very little of that has been implemented. Where`s the Republican Party right now? STEELE: Well, it`s funny. Howard and I in our 50-state strategies have had exactly polar opposite effects and results. In the case of Democrats, what Howard did was laid doubt the predicate to win nationally and they did. He made the Democratic Party competitive in parts of the country where they weren`t before, North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia, and they won. They won presidential races. When I got into the RNC, I had very much like Howard had inherited -- a mess. And so, we focused on grassroots and building from the bottom up. The result was winning state legislative races, mayorships and governorships across the country. But not being able to seal the deal if you will at the national level, winning the presidency. So now both parties are at this cross roads where they have to figure out how Democrats can begin to take some control at the grassroots level and Republicans to win those legislative seats back, and Republicans have to figure out how we win a national presidential campaign again. And so, what that -- what that leaves is the party`s in a state of confusion almost -- HAYES: Right. STEELE: -- in how to do that, and you`ve seen that played out quite honestly in both parties right now. HAYES: I completely agree. Part of this has to do with turnout, right? I mean -- STEELE: Yes. HAYES: Kentucky last night turnout 30 percent, right? Now, to be clear, Conway, the Democratic nominee, that`s Kentucky voter turnout the last few elections, right? Thirty percent in the off year election. Now, nationally, turnout has been -- has been lower in off year elections than presidentials. Democrats have done very well in the years, the last presidentials and getting people out, but have completely failed. I mean, I had a former Democratic organizer who e-mailed me today sort of reeling from this and saying, no one is showing up to talk to these folks about coming out to vote four months ahead of time. What are your issues? They`re showing up a week ahead of time with a knock saying, you live in a census track (INAUDIBLE) Democratic. (CROSSTALK) DEAN: This is the weakness in the state parties, which is happened because of the abandonment of the 50-state strategy. We used to -- our deal with the 50-state strategy is creating a nationalist with IT money and paying for that stuff and then synchronizing the list across the states and each state, and we gave five staff members. They got to train them but -- I mean, they got to hire them. HAYES: You paid for them. DEAN: We paid for them and trained them and what we trained them to do is what the organizer you talked to did. You cannot win an election in the last week. You have to start -- Obama presidential election is the template. You start a year before. And it`s personal connections. HAYES: And here`s my question to you, Michael, on this note: Has the Republican Party laid the groundwork in the states and among the constituencies they need to outperform essentially Mitt Romney in a year ahead of the election? I mean, are there inroads and organizing being done say among Latinos or in a state like North Carolina, Colorado and others? STEELE: I -- you know, I have to give Reince credit to the extent that he has kept in large part a lot of the 50-state strategy that we implemented in 2009 and 2010. That was sort of the ground for the autopsy report and their subsequent efforts. The problem here, Chris, is message. HAYES: Right. STEELE: It`s brand. HAYES: Right. STEELE: So, you can have all the foundation in the world -- HAYES: Right. STEELE: -- if your message stinks, if people aren`t buying it, you`re not going to be able to sell that. You`re not going to be able to grow that foundation. HAYES: If you have your candidates saying to deport 11 million people as an example. STEELE: Right. That`s something Howard and I both understood is you have to marry up the process, the effort with the resilient message that people responded to. DEAN: See, I don`t quite agree with that because in Kentucky had the turnout been 45 percent, we would have won that race. The thing that kills me about Kentucky is 460,000 people -- HAYES: Right. (CROSSTALK) DEAN: -- because they didn`t go out and vote for their own health insurance. HAYES: That`s the question. That`s no one`s fault but the party. I mean, you can say it`s -- DEAN: Voters` fault. HAYES: Well, but it`s the party`s fault. Look, that`s the party`s job to get people to vote. (CROSSTALK) STEELE: -- draw them out. HAYES: Yes, right. STEELE: I mean, I understand it and nothing to draw them to the polls. You have to have something to say. (CROSSTALK) DEAN: Health insurance. HAYES: Michael Steele and Howard Dean, I can do this for an hour -- thank you gentlemen both. That was illuminating. DEAN: Thank you. HAYES: All right. Coming up, as Ben Carson dethrones Trump in the national polls, Jeb Bush seems to be an afterthought. Why New Hampshire could be the campaign saving grace. Plus, director Quentin Tarantino will join me live to respond to the national protest he`s now facing after comments he made at a rally against police brutality. Those stories and more, ahead. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: Officials are now looking into the possibility of the Russian plane that went down over the Sinai Peninsula killing 224 people was brought down by an explosive device with the suspicion that it was the work of ISIS or an ISIS-affiliated group. A U.S. official, single official, tells NBC News that evidence indicated it was likely a bomb but that it could have also been a mechanical failure. The suspicion, according to the official, is that the bomb was placed on board by ground crew or baggage handlers and that ISIS is responsible. I should emphasis here, at this point, it is a strong suspicion, not a conclusion, and no evidence of a bomb has been found yet in the debris. That said, the British government has temporarily halted flights between the Sinai Peninsula and Britain as a precaution while investigators move forward. The flight`s data recorder is not yet fully analyzed but American military officials said yesterday satellite surveillance indicated a flash of light as the plane went -- got broken up. A missile had been ruled out because of the heat signature. We`ll keep monitoring the story and bring you updates as they develop. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: Filmmaker Quentin Tarantino has a major film coming out in December "The Hateful Eight". But right now, police organizations around the country are calling for a boycott of that movie. That`s after comments Tarantino made at a rally in New York City in late October protesting police brutality. At one point during the seven-hour rally in March, this is what Tarantino told the crowd in footage recorded by Democracy Now. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) QUENTIN TARANTINO, FILMMAKER: I got something to say but actually I would like to give my time to the families that want to talk. I want to give my time to the families. However, I just do also want to say, what am I doing here? I`m doing here because I am a human being with a conscience. And when I see murder, I cannot stand by and I have to call the murdered the murdered and I have to call the murderers the murderers. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: That comment caught the attention of the New York City Police Union which said in a statement, "It`s no surprise that someone who makes a living glorifying crime and violence is a cop hater, too. The police officers that Quentin Tarantino calls `murderers` aren`t living in one of his depraved big screen fantasies. They`re risking and sometimes sacrificing their lives to protect communities from real crime and mayhem. New Yorkers need to send a message to this purveyor of degeneracy that he has no business coming to our city to peddle his slanderous cop fiction. It`s time for a boycott of Quentin Tarantino`s film." Similar boycotts have been called for by police unions in New Jersey, Philadelphia, Chicago, Houston, and Los Angeles, as well as the National Association of Police Organizations who represents over 200,000 officers. The controversy has been covered by a wide spectrum of media from FOX News entertainment programs and outrage over the comments has reached to Congress, which we will get to in a moment. Tarantino`s remarks at that rally in October 24th within days of the shooting death of New York City Police Officer Randolph Holder. Some critics of Tarantino like the head of the L.A. Police Protective League, Lieutenant Craig Lawle, are pointing to that timing of that, calling it a, quote, "stunning lack of sensitivity". Tarantino says he is not backing down, telling "The L.A. Times", quote, "All cops are not murderers. I never said that. I never even implied that." He added, "I`m not a cop hater. That is a misrepresentation. That is slanderous. That is not how I feel." Joining me now to tell us how he feels, Director Quentin Tarantino. A pleasure to have you on. Thank you very much. I want to read for you the transcript of that statement that has gotten so much attention. TARANTINO: Sure. HAYES: And just ask you to elaborate. So, this is what you said. You said, you now, "What am I doing here? I`m doing here because I`m a human being with a conscience. And when I see murder, I cannot stand by and I have to call the murdered the murdered and I have to call the murderers the murderers." What do you mean by that? TARANTINO: Well, we were at a rally that was dealing with unarmed people, mostly black and brown, who have been shot and killed or beaten or strangled by the police. And I was obviously referring to the people in those type of situations. I was referring to Eric Gardner. I was referring to Sam Dubois. I was referring to Antonio Lopez Guzman. I was referring to Tamir Rice. That`s what I was referring to. HAYES: You`re referring to specific cases in which a police use of force has taken the life of someone in a way you feel was murder? TARANTINO: Yes. I believe -- yes, in those cases in particular we are talking about, I actually do believe that they were murder. Now, in the case of Walter Scott who is the man running in the park and was shot in the back and the case of Sam Dubois, I believe those were murder and they were deemed murder. And the reason and the only reason they were deemed murder because the incidences were caught on video. However, if they had not been caught on video, the murderers would have gotten away with their murder. In the case of Eric Gardner, in the case of Tamir Rice, I believe that those were murders but they were exonerated. HAYES: There`s something about that word, obviously, which has set off police unions and many police officers. Why do you think -- were you surprised by the -- frankly, the vitriol with which they have responded to those comments? TARANTINO: Yes. I was surprised. I was under the impression I was an American and that I had First Amendment rights and there was no problem with me going to an anti-police brutality protest and speaking my mind. And just because I was at an anti-police brutality protest doesn`t mean I`m anti-police. And, basically, you know, there was a lot of people at that rally and we were all crying for -- we were crying for a lot of things but there`s one thing in particular which was, stop shooting unarmed people. We want justice. But stop shooting unarmed people. But they don`t want to deal with that. They would rather -- they would rather start arguments with celebrities than examine the concerns put before them by a citizenry that has lost trust in them. HAYES: So, I was -- when I first saw the news of this, my first thought was, what was Quentin Tarantino doing at this -- at this march in New York City? How did you come to be at that event? TARANTINO: Well, the organization who put it on was -- it`s called Rise Up October. And they got in touch with me because I had made statements in some interviews, you know, along the way, that has suggested that I`m on their side when it comes to this issue of -- you know, ultimately, what I feel is a problem of white supremacy in this country. And they realized -- they gathered that I was on their side and they approached me about it and they explained the situation to me and I was happy to show up. And the reason I was happy to show up and what we were doing there was -- it was a three-day rally. I took part in two days of it. The main thing that we were trying to do there was stop -- there`s a lot of statistics going around about how many people have -- unarmed people killed by the police. But we want them to stop being numbers. We want them to stop being statistics, and start being people who were once living and breathing and now dead, and the idea to go there and say their names and to show their pictures and to send the families over to New York and tell their stories about what happened, and really, for us to bear witness to those stories. And the other day of the rally, which was the march, was the demand justice and demand that the police stop shooting unarmed people. HAYES: Do you think -- I saw a number of people talk about this, a number of critics, and police officers reference the shooting death of Officer Holder which had happened a few days beforehand and was obviously tremendously tragic, and awful for the city, and for police officer`s family. Do you think that you were being insensitive by saying this, as some have alleged essentially, you know, with this being within a week of this tragedy? TARANTINO: Well, the timing was very unfortunate. And his death, that officer`s death, is a tragedy. I acknowledge that 100 percent. And my heart goes out to him and goes out to his loved ones. However, the point of the rally was to bring these families. We had over 40 families, not 40 people but 40 different families this has happened to come out and tell their stories and say their -- say their loved one`s name, and that`s what`s not being talked about. HAYES: Yes. TARANTINO: And so, what? Because that happened we`re going to say, oh no, no. Don`t tell your story. I know we flew you out here. We`re going to fly you back and do it another time. It`s just not convenient. HAYES: You were the subject of a fairly interesting speech on the house of -- the floor of the House of Representatives today from a Texas congressman. I want to play you a little bit of that if you would like to respond. This is Congressman Ted Poe of Texas inveighing against Quentin Tarantino. Take a listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. TED POE (R), TEXAS: He referred to peace officers as murderers. His hateful rhetoric called for violence against law enforcement, saying, I have a call -- I have to call a murderer a murderer and I have to call a murder a murder. And that he adding that he is on the side of the ones who confront and are confronted by police. His comments encourage mischief and crimes against peace officers. For the haters to justify lawlessness in response to perceived lawless acts by the police is idiotic. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: A response to the congressman? TARANTINO: Well, that`s not what I said. You`ve actually -- you -- it`s easy enough to find out what I said because I didn`t say that much. You actually had my entire speech there on your thing. You know, that`s -- that`s their way. They`re being inflammatory. They`re slandering me. I`m not a cop hater. But Patrick Lynch -- that`s the way they attack me, is calling me a cop hater. That`s the way that Milwaukee County Sheriff David Clarke who was on FOX all the time says that I`m putting police in danger standing up for the rights of unarmed citizens who have been killed by the police. But at the same time, they say that about anybody that acknowledges a problem of law enforcement in this country right now is considered by law enforcement part of the problem, whether that be me, whether that be Bill de Blasio, whether that be President Barack Obama who in the case of both Patrick Lynch and David Clark have accused all three of us of this action. HAYES: Yes. Is that -- is that what you think this is about and why you have -- they have seized on this comment and given it as much life as it has been given? TARANTINO: Well, yes. Like I said, I mean, it`s much easier to feign outrage and start arguments with celebrities than it is to deal with the fact that they have -- the citizenry has lost trust in them also. But there`s also another thing going on absolutely. There were 300 people in that march. They`re not dealing with the issues that we were talking about which you would think they`d want to deal with at least to some degree or another. No. They want to demonize me, they want to slander me, imply that I`m saying things that I didn`t say, and then, but -- for what reason? HAYES: Can I -- TARANTINO: And the reason is because they want me to shut up and they want to make sure that no other people like me, prominent citizens, will stand up for that side. HAYES: Let me ask you this. You have a movie coming out and you`re promoting it and been in the works and people have written a lot about it. It`s widely anticipated I think it`s fair to say. Have you gotten pressure from anyone to just basically shut up and apologize and keep it moving? TARANTINO: No. Not necessarily. I mean, you know, I`m sure that the company that`s producing the movie, I`m sure this is a pain in the butt that they wish they didn`t have to deal with. At the same time, that same company released the movie "Fruitvale Station". So, they`re very --you know, they`re very aware of the problem. And they stand behind me. HAYES: All right. I should make the point here, the statements that we`re reading are from police unions which don`t necessarily always particularly in tone or in sentiment encapsulate all police officers` thoughts on the matter. There`s a sort of tone to police union statements that we have come to expect after these that tend to be maximalist. I mean, have you had conversations with police officers in the wake of this? TARANTINO: Not as of -- not as of yet. I`m hoping that that is going to start happening sometime -- you know, I`m hoping that`s going to start happening sometime in the next week or so. And I agree with you about these mouthpieces saying what they`re saying. They`re calling for a boycott. And, you know, maybe that boycott will happen. But maybe it won`t, because I have a whole lot of police officer who are big fans of my work, and they`re not going to take Patrick Lynch`s word on what I said. They`re going to read what I said. They`ll watch this show. They`ll hear what I have to say. And I think they`ll make up their own mind and we`ll see what happens. HAYES: All right. Quentin Tarantino, thank you very much for your time tonight, sir. Appreciate it. TARANTINO: My pleasure. HAYES: All right. Still to come, as Jeb Bush`s polling hits new lows, he faces a huge battleground that`s still open for the taking as the candidates set their sights on New Hampshire. Stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So we picked the worst photo taken of me. I would have loved to have had a beautiful, smiling picture but somehow that doesn`t go with the title of the book or frankly the contents of the book. (END VIDEO CLIP) CHRIS HAYES, ALL IN SHOW HOST: On the very first page is the preface of his brand new book, "Crippled America," Donald Trump reveals why he chose his cover photo. "I wanted a picture where I wasn`t happy, a picture that reflected the anger and unhappiness that I feel rather than joy." That`s as far as we got in the book. Fortunately, Guardian and Rolling Stone columnist, Jeb Lund, read the rest of it for us. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: It`s selling like hotcakes so we`ll see. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Joining me now is Jeb Lund, columnist of Guardian and Rolling Stone. All right, Jeb. Your impressions of "Crippled America"? JEB LUND, GUARDIAN AND ROLLING STONE COLUMNIST: Okay. This may not seem like a natural analogy to you, but in many ways this reminded me of the 1980`s action film "Gymkata" which combined the discipline and timing of gymnastics with the power of karate, in a sense that this combines the empty gloriation of a campaign book with the sort of off the cuff wildness of Donald Trump, which, you know, from a rational perspective it is not fun and shouldn`t be and yet it really is. HAYES: So, it was good read? LUND: Yeah. I mean, unlike most of the these books, you get the sense that Donald Trump really did write this and, in fact, he probably wrote this, like, with an ear piece while driving a car or something, just dictating to somebody down the end of the line. Because it just sort of veers from topic to topic and, you know, he might be taking on China and then he`ll just stop to air these grievances. And, you know, you get the sense, really the only editing process was a guy sort of going through and removing the moments when Trump said, "you know, we`re going to fix this, the - the thing - the doohickey." And so that`s removed. But everything else, this sort of leaping from topic to topic is still there. HAYES: So, my question about this is, you know, he wrote this very quickly, and I say wrote lightly. I mean, I think you`re probably right, this was probably a dictated enterprise. But he`s got a stump speech now. I mean, if you hear his, you know, he basically does the same (speech). Is there anything different in the book than the stump speech? LUND: Yeah. Actually, there`s a striking bit, sort of about two-thirds of the way through which sounds very popular. He says, "A few years ago, Moody`s, the financial investment agency, calculated that every $1 of Federal money invested in improving the infrastructure for highways and public schools, would generate $1.44 back to the economy. If we do what we have to do correctly, we can create the biggest economic boon in this country since the new deal. And it sort of reminds you of those populous notes that he was hitting at the beginning of his campaign what it sounded like he might go after other Donald Trump-like figures, and you just sort of wonder what might have been. HAYES: In the pantheon of campaign books, you`re now on your third, where does this stack up? LUND: Well, this book, this is the most beautiful, most exclusive campaign book available on the market. It`s lovely. Everyone enjoys it. I feel very, very bad for the haters and losers who can`t see that. But naturally again, please don`t read the book. HAYES: Jeb Lund, oh, man, doing the old man`s work. Thank you again. And we got to figure out what we got up next for you. Thank you. LUND: Thank you. HAYES: Coming up, two months after the massive manhunt following the shooting death of an Illinois police officer, today`s stunning announcement about what really happened. That story is next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) CRAIG MELVIN, MSNBC ANCHOR: We continue to follow that breaking news on the massive manhunt for three suspected cop killers in Fox Lake, Illinois. It`s just north -- about an hour northwest of Chicago. An officer is dead. The suspects are on the run right now. HAYES: A little over two months ago, all eyes are on the small village of Fox Lake, Illinois, where, on the morning of September 1st, a police officer had been found unconscious with a gunshot wound after telling a dispatcher he was pursuing two white males and a black male. The officer, Lt. Joe Gliniewicz, succumbed to his wounds, and over a dozen law enforcement agencies in the area launched an enormous manhunt for the three suspects deploying helicopters, dogs and about 400 officers searching door-to-door within a radius of over 2 miles. Just a few days earlier, on August 28th, a sheriff`s deputy in Houston had been fatally shot at a gas station while filling up his police cruiser. And those two incidents in such short succession amounted to conclusive evidence for some of a "War On Cops," (fueled) by President Obama and the `Black Lives Matter` Movement. Then presidential candidate, Scott Walker, penned an op-ed for HotAir, blaming the President for "a rise in anti-police rhetoric" leading to "disturbing trend of police officers being murdered on the job." Pat Buchanan accused President Obama of being "a conscientious objector in the "`War On Cops`" and Fox News trotted out the string of law enforcement officials to incredibility to the so-called phenomenon. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DAVID CLARKE, SHERIFF, MILWAUKEE COUNTY, WISCONSIN: I thank the President of the United States because he waded into this and the days after Ferguson with some inflammatory rhetoric where he breathed life into this anti-cop sentiment that now exists in the United States. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can`t talk about disparities in the criminal justice system unless you talk about disparities of victimization. One person could bridge that gap most effectively, so far he`s only talked about half of the equation. MATT LEWIS, SHERIFF, MESA COUNTY, COLORADO: You bet it`s open season on law enforcement across this country. American Law Enforcement right now are under siege. We recognize it. We see it everywhere we go and you can rest assured as you all know this all started on the false lie, this premise down in Ferguson, Missouri, hands up, don`t shoot. "Black Lives Matter." All based on a lie. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: About a week after Lt. Gliniewicz`s death, the Lake County coroner told a reporter, right now all unnatural deaths are up for suggestion, that means, homicide, suicide, accident undetermined. That was a bit strange, and then set off a new round of rumors and speculation prompting one of Gliniewicz`s sons to give an interview defending his father, claiming his father had never had a single suicidal thought. Investigators largely remain silent citing the ongoing investigation. Today, after two months, they finally announced their conclusions. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GEORGE FILENKO, COMMANDER, LAKE COUNTY MAJOR CRIMES TASK FORCE: Gliniewicz`s death was a carefully staged suicide. We have determined this staged suicide was the end result of extensive criminal acts that Gliniewicz had been committing. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: According to the investigators, the man known in the community as G.I. Joe had been embezzling money through a youth police program called the "Explorer" for seven years. Now, in the morning of September 1st, fearing he was about to be discovered, Gliniewicz shot himself. Two of those investigators join me now, Chief George Filenko, he`s Commander of Lake County Major Crimes Task Force and Detective Christopher Covelli, the spokesperson for the Lake County Sheriff`s Department. Gentlemen, let me ask you this. Over these last two months, can you give us some sense of where in the timeline there started to be very strong suspicions that this did not go down the way it was originally understood to have gone down? FILENKO: We started suspecting that -- we started moving away from the theory that this was a homicide in a relatively short amount of time in the last I`d say, two weeks or so. We obtained a substantial amount of evidence, text messages, bank records, primarily the text messages were interesting as to they were very incriminating and it painted a picture over a six-month period of a person who was beginning to feel trapped and a person that was making some incriminating statements, very incriminating statements regarding criminal acts. HAYES: I want to make sure, Mr. Filenko, that I understand you here. When you say two weeks, you saying in the last two weeks or in the first two weeks you abandoned the homicide theory you started to move away from it? FILENKO: No. We consider this a homicide investigation and we still kept proceeding along for the last couple of months as -- as a homicide investigation. We started receiving information based on subpoenas and court orders that we had issued several weeks ago, and in the past two weeks all of that information started to surface and we began an analysis of that information. Including bank records and like I stated, over 6,500 deleted text messages that Gliniewicz have deleted we believe shortly before the staged suicide. HAYES: Mr. Covelli, there was an audit that was happening of the department and that the theory, as I understand it as reflected in the text messages, that Mr. Gliniewicz thought this would catch him. One of the questions the people automatically have is, didn`t you guys know about this audit? Weren`t people able to sort of put two and two together earlier? DETECTIVE CHRISTOPHER COVELLI, SPOKESPERSON, LAKE COUNTY SHERIFF`S DEPARTMENT: Well, the thing with the audit is he was asked to audit specific Explorer equipments that he oversaw. He was asked to compile the data and provide it to village management. Through reading these text messages, and going back during that time, there was no audit asked of any financials or any bank accounts or anything of that nature. It was specific to actual physical items. Going back to his text messages it became very clear, he was very concerned that the next step from the village was going to be asking for some sort of audit or verification of funds in the bank account. So the task force subpoenaed those records and received records back which it takes some time to receive subpoenaed responses back, but once we started compiling these records and FBI forensic accountant assisted us with the analysis of these records and it became very clear the past seven years he`s been using this as his own personal slush fund HAYES: You know, this case sent -- there was a lot of strange coverage of this case. It was a very strange situation. It was a very pressing national story. The manhunt was very pressing. It then appeared to kind of just tail off with the supposition being that three people who had murdered a police officer had managed to escape, and then September 11th. In a news release, Thursday, high-ranking police who have provided limited information about the 52-year-old officer`s death, September 1st, chastised the coroner for his comments to the media in which he did not rule out suicide, calling him unprofessional and completely irresponsible. Was that a mistake? FILENKO: The coroner`s office has had a gentleman`s agreement with the Task Force and other law enforcement agencies in the county specifically related to homicide investigations. These are extremely sensitive cases, and a release of information prior to being vetted through the investigators or the investigative units, could lead to problematic issues down the road, if or when an arrest is made and a prosecution is sought. The statement got its point across. We`ve had an extremely productive relationship with the coroner since. And I would say we`re moving forward and continue to garner an extremely positive relationship with the coroner. HAYES: The Chicago Sun Times editorial board has called for an apology from you, from the investigators, from the police saying that the moment Lieutenant Gliniewicz was found dead, the Lake County investigator downplayed any notion he might have committed suicide lashing out of those who did instead by means of selective pronouncements and a slowly-paced investigation. They waited more than two weeks to get lab results on ballistics and gunshot residue. They fed the hero story line. Do you owe anyone an apology? FILENKO: No. We conducted this case in a systematic, chronological, investigative manner. You can look at this case as being a gigantic puzzle with many pieces and no set map. It took quite some time to put the pieces of that puzzle together and come to this conclusion. We`re never going to rush to judgment. We`re never going to rush to judgment and completely ignore facts and - HAYES: Okay. FILENKO: Sorry. HAYES: Thank you, Chief George Filenko, Detective Christopher Covelli, for joining me tonight. I appreciate it. COVELLI: Thank you. FILENKO: Thank you, too. HAYES: All right. Just ahead, the crucial early state that right now is wide open in the Republican race. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: Much more still ahead including the seeming flailing of the Jeb for President Campaign and the increasing importance in New Hampshire in 2016. We`ll go live to the granite state ahead. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you look at where you are, I mean -- JEB BUSH, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It is not near. It is not near. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... you (fall out) this morning 4%. And did you ever think you would be -- BUSH: I don`t even care. It`s not relevant. HAYES: The certain theory I`ve seen floated about Jeb Bush which is that deep down he doesn`t really want to be president. Evidence of this theory, admittedly speculative, but just the other day, NBC`s Chuck Todd asked the one-time frontrunner about it directly. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CHUCK TODD, MEET THE PRESS MODERATOR: Do you still want to be president? BUSH: I do. I do. I see great possibilities for our country. I honestly believe we`re on the verge of greatness. We have to fix some really big complex things and I have the leadership skills to do it and I`m fired up about that. That`s -- that`s what motivates me. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Bush is in New Hampshire today taking part in what "The Associated Press" has called Jeb Bush`s campaign revival tour. Traveling in a blue tour bus with a slogan Jeb Can Fix It plastered on each side. And so far, hasn`t really been much of a resurgence. Yesterday, Jeb appeared to walk back the wisecrack about the French workweek he made during the last GOP debate, telling "Time Magazine," "I made a mistake of saying that congress operates on a French workweek." That really did a disservice to the French. As an aside apologizing to the French is generally not the best way to win a GOP primary. Then there are his national poll numbers which are in the low single digits. The most recent Quinnipiac University survey released today, Jeb Bush has dropped to just 4%. Although I will say this for Jeb, three months before the Iowa caucuses, national polls are not what you should be worried about. He`s right about that. Currently, the national frontrunner spot belongs to Ben Carson, who, for the first time, has dethroned Donald Trump from atop the real clear politics national polling average where he sat ever since July 19th, a full 107 days. But if you ignore national numbers for the moment and zero in on New Hampshire, you will notice it`s a very tight wide open race where even John Kasich is within striking distance. Today was the start of sign-up day in New Hampshire and candidates officially file their papers for the State`s presidential primary. According to New Hampshire Union leader, Donald Trump was the first Republican to file and we will take you to the granite state next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re seeing you in New Hampshire today with Iowa last week. Iowa, a huge crowd, big reception. Which city are you focusing on the most as you look ahead? SENATOR MARCO RUBIO, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don`t think we have that luxury. We want - we want to be successful in as many places as possible. We love being in New Hampshire and Iowa, South Carolina, too, Nevada. So we`re going to be getting around but we`ll be here quite a bit. HAYES: Joining me from New Hampshire tonight, Sabrina Siddiqui. She`s reporter for the "Guardian" and she has been following around Marco Rubio and other candidates. So here`s my analysis, Sabrina. I want you to tell me how it feels there on the ground. Basically, Iowa voted for Huckabee, voted or Santorum, the last two go-arounds. No one is looking at it to crown the frontrunner. It makes New Hampshire that much more important particularly if you price in someone like Ben Carson or Donald Trump might win Iowa and the (weight) it is polling, if we can show it, shows that New Hampshire is still totally wide open, 18 Carson, 16 Trump, 11 Rubio who shut up, 10 for Kasich. It really does feel like it - that is going to be a huge moment in this campaign of who can take that state. SABRINA SIDDIQUI, THE GUARDIAN REPORTER: Absolutely. And, you know, you mentioned that poll so you do see outsiders like Ben Carson and Donald Trump still leading the pack over here. But Marco Rubio in that same poll, his support has tripled since where he was in September. So you really do see that shift that has occurred since both the second and the third presidential debate, and you could feel that here on the ground, too. He packed the town hall here in New Hampshire. There are people watching Rubio from outside in an overflow area. They were very -- he was very warmly received and at the other end of the stage, Jeb Bush was trying to revive his own campaign, acknowledging that he has to get better, whether or not he has the time to do that remains to be seen. HAYES: Yeah. And if you`re Jeb Bush, I mean, I honestly think that he is right to ignore national polls. We should note that New Hampshire has not been very kind to the Bush family. George H.W. Bush lost it to Patrick Buchanan, George W. Bush lost it to John McCain. So it`s not like there`s a well of good feeling, but he is still - he is not out of it in New Hampshire, point being. SIDDIQUI: Oh, absolutely not. A lot of voters I spoke to that saw Jeb Bush`s event last night and this morning said they haven`t made up their mind, and although a lot of the media attention is around his campaign struggles, his weak performance in last week`s debate, it`s way too soon to write anyone off. Jeb Bush also got a pretty resounding welcome in a town hall that he did. One of the things he clearly has done is he really was speaking with a lot of energy for lack of a better way of putting it. The attacks from Donald Trump that he lacks energy, he was so fired up at these events, Jeb Bush, that he was practically shouting in some of those moments and he really wanted to at least project that he wants to win this thing and he vowed that he will be the candidate who were going to win New Hampshire. HAYES: That`s a great phrase, Sabrina. He wants to project that he wants to win this thing. Sabrina Siddiqui in New Hampshire. Thank you very much. All right. That is "All In" for this evening. Now, tomorrow night, we will have Elizabeth Warren on the show, so you want to make sure you`re tuned for that, and on Friday, do not forget (in catching) Democratic Forum hosted by the one, the only, Rachel Maddow, exclusively on MSNBC and the aforementioned Rachel Maddow, her show which begins right now. THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. END