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All In with Chris Hayes, Transcript 09/10/15

Guests: Ben Domenech, Tara Dowdell, Bernie Sanders, David Brock

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voice-over): Tonight on ALL IN -- GOV. BOBBY JINDAL (R-LA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He`s a narcissist. He`s an egomaniac. The only thing he believes in is myself. HAYES: The attacks on Donald Trump are getting louder. JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think Governor Jindal is absolutely correct. That he`s not a serious candidate. HAYES: And he`s getting it from all sides. BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Humility and the fear of the Lord. I don`t get that impression with him. HAYES: As the summer of Trump winds down, the growing movement to hasten the fall of Trump. JINDAL: It`s clear, Donald Trump`s never read the bible. The reason we know, he`s not in the bible. HAYES: Then, another astonishing poll for Bernie Sanders in Iowa. SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: All I can tell you at this point is we`re feeling pretty good. HAYES: He joins me here tonight. Plus, Democrats vote to give peace a chance. Senator Al Franken on the breaking news in the Iran deal. And is "The New York Times" out to get Hillary Clinton? That`s the charge David Brock of Media Matters is making, and he joins me live tonight when ALL IN starts right now. (END VIDEOTAPE) HAYES: Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes. The Republican presidential race has basically turned into a circular firing squad with the undisputed front runner Donald J. Trump standing smack dab in the middle -- taking fire and returning it from a growing number of opponents. I think it`s safe to say no one expected it to be where it is right now. At this point, Trump`s candidacy is a run away train, to mix our metaphors. He`s the first in the field to break 30 percent nationwide in a new CNN/ORC poll followed by Ben Carson at 19 and Bush at 9. Today, Bobby Jindal at the 1 percent mark in that same poll became the latest candidate to try and throw himself across Trump`s track, with a blistering attack that was less of a campaign speech and more of a roast minus the booze and good humor. We`ll play you the highlights in just a moment. But if Jindal is picking a fight with Trump, he`s going to have to wait in line, you see, because the Donald is already going at it with two rivals much closer in his rearview mirror. Yesterday, "Rolling Stone" published its new cover story on Trump containing the following quote about Republican candidate Fiorina. Quote, "Look at that face," he cries. "Would anyone vote for that? Can you imagine that, the face of our next president? I mean, she`s a woman, and I`m not supposed to say bad things, but really, folks, come on, are we serious?" Fiorina was asked about Trump`s comment in an interview last night. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MEGYN KELLY, FOX NEWS HOST: What do you take that to mean? "Look at that face. Would anyone vote for that?" CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes. I have no idea. You know, obvious -- you know, honestly, Megyn, I`m not going to spend a single cycle wondering what Donald Trump means. Maybe, just maybe I`m getting under his skin a little bit because I am climbing in the polls. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Calling into FOX News this morning, Trump didn`t deny the quote. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (via telephone): Probably I did say something like that about Carly. I`m talking about persona, I`m not talking about look, although when I get criticized for my hair, which isn`t that bad. You know, you`ve seen, right? it`s not that bad. But when I get criticized constantly by my hair, nobody does a story about, oh, isn`t that terrible they criticized Donald Trump`s hair? The fact is that, I probably did say that about Carly or something about, in a jocular manner, obviously. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Then there`s Trump`s new feud with Ben Carson who right now is his closest challenger in the polls. Despite only getting a fraction of the news coverage, taking reporters` questions before a campaign event last night, Carson was asked about what differentiates him from the front runner. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CARSON: Probably the biggest thing is that, you know, I realize where my successes come from. And I don`t in any way deny my faith in God. One of my favorite bible verses, Proverbs 22:4. It says, "My humility and the fear of the Lord are riches and honor in life." And that`s a very big part of who I am, humility and the fear of the Lord. I don`t get that impression with him. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Responding to Carson in another interview this morning, Trump did not pull his punches. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: I only hit back when I get hit. I`m a great counterpuncher. But Ben Carson, you`re talking about his faith. Excuse me, Chris, please go back and look at his past, go back and look at his views on abortion and see where he stands. You talk about abortion. I mean, go back and look at his views on abortion, where now all of a sudden he gets very low key. I mean, frankly, he looks like -- he makes Bush look like the Energizer bunny. He was a doctor, perhaps, you know, an OK doctor, by the way. You can check that out, too. We did not talk about a great -- he was an OK doctor. CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: He was -- I don`t know about OK doctor. He was the first man to separate conjoined twins. TRUMP: Now because he`s a doctor and hired one nurse he`s going to end up being the president of the United States? But for him to criticize me on my faith is absolutely -- and for him to read from the Bible in his memory, it looked like he memorized it about two minutes before he went on stage. CUOMO: Do you think you`re more a man of faith than he is? TRUMP: Ben Carson is not going to be the next president, that I can tell you. He doesn`t even know me. You know why I met him, he comes to my club in Palm Beach, OK? I have a great club Mar-a-Lago in Palm Beach. He comes to my club. I hardly know Ben Carson. When he questions my faith and I`m a believer, big league in God, in the Bible, and he questions my faith and doesn`t know me. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: There`s so much going on there. Not to mention Chris Cuomo`s reaction. Big league believer, we`ll talk about that. Carson later tried to calm things down telling the "Washington Post," "The media frequently wants to goad people into the worst", that`s true, "into gladiator fights, you know, and I`m not going to get into that. I`d like to say that Trump, that the intention was not to talk to him, but about what motivates me, if he took that as a personal attack on him, I apologize. It was certainly not my intent." And this brings us finally to Bobby Jindal, the current governor of Louisiana who`s now at 0.3 percent -- 0.3 percent in the Real Clear Politics national polling average. Today, Jindal hit on a topic guaranteed to get him attention and a certain cable news network seemed more than happy to give it to him. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TV ANCHOR: Here is the governor from Louisiana now. What will he say? How far will he go? JINDAL: There`s a hunger to get America back. I see it in the polls. I like the idea of Donald Trump. And I like the show. I like the Donald Trump act and show. It`s a lot of fun, it`s entertainment. But here`s the problem -- Donald Trump is not a serious candidate. He`s a narcissist. He`s an egomaniac. The only thing he believes in is himself. Donald Trump is shallow. He has no understanding of policy. He is full of bluster. He has no substance. Like all narcissists, Donald Trump is insecure and weak. He`s afraid of being exposed. That`s why he tells us always and constantly how big and strong and wealthy he is. Donald Trump`s never read the Bible. The reason we know he`s never read the Bible, he`s not in the Bible. The whole thing is set up for us to win. Now we are flirting with nominating a non-serious, unstable, substance-free candidate. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Joining me now, Ben Domenech, publisher of "The Federalist" and Democratic consultant Tara Dowdell. There`s so much happening here. So, let`s start with the Jindal thing. Before we get to the Jindal thing, one of the most fascinating thing to me today was FOX took the whole thing. And we`ve been trying to game out, like, what`s going on there? Is that just a news decision? Is that`s like reading the tea leaves of this back and forth between Trump and Ailes? Do you have opinion on that? BEN DOMENECH, THE FEDERALIST: I think my opinion is basically it`s a balancing act. It`s a tough thing to say. I think there is a faction of Trump support that does have a point in the sense that they are supporting him because they believe in the policies he`s supporting or because they want to send a message to the Republican establishment. There`s also a portion of his support that`s essentially just, yes, that`s a guy that`s going to give Putin what for. And I think that`s the tough, creates a tough balance for a lot of conservative media. Not just FOX News, but "National Review" and a number of other publications have dealt with the rage from Trump supporters whenever they break with them. It`s something that -- HAYES: You dealt with it personally. DOMENECH: Yes, I have dealt with it. HAYES: I mean, tell me -- what is that experience like? DOMENECH: Well, it`s really, you deal with a very enraged and engaged group of people who don`t seem particularly conservative but do seem very passionate and anti-immigrant in terms of their priorities. It has a lot more in common with the kind of experience you see from the Putin represented trolls that you find on the Internet. HAYES: That`s fascinating. DOMENECH: As opposed to anything re resembling the political discourse you see online or in social media. It`s a very different animal. It`s an odd thing to see. It`s very weird. HAYES: You know, I was watching the Jindal today thing, Tara. And this is the second time this has been attempted. Governor Rick Perry did it and Bobby Jindal. And we should know. We have the lineup now for the two events, the main event and the undercard. The undercard is going to be Pataki, Santorum, Perry, Jindal and Lindsey graham, right? And everyone else will be in the main stage. Perry and Jindal, I mean, I keep thinking of that "SNL" skit with Lovitz playing Dukakis, where he`s like, I can`t believe I`m losing to this guy, which was like, which was like David Carvey being this total doofus, and I`ve got to think that Perry and Jindal in particular, I mean, I don`t like Bobby Jindal`s politics. I don`t think he`s been a good governor of Louisiana. But the guy has governed a state. He run a health care system when he was 28. He`s a freaking Rhodes Scholar. If you sat down to him and talked about Medicaid reimbursement rates in the state of Louisiana, he could tell you what the Medicaid rates are. It has to drive them insane to watch this, right? TARA DOWDELL, DEMOCRATIC CONSULTANT: Well, first of all for Bobby Jindal, it has to be driving him nuts. The other thing is, you go to his Web site, he has reams and reams of papers on these topics. I don`t agree with what those white papers say, but they exist. HAYES: Yes. That`s right. DOWDELL: I can imagine this is probably particularly brutal for him. But I do think this was a calculated strategy. No one`s been talking about Bobby Jindal. Most people don`t know he`s still running at this point. HAYES: No. DOWDELL: So for him to get into a back and forth with Donald Trump will actually help Bobby Jindal because he`ll at least get into the news cycle. HAYES: OK, that has been tried before. It was tried with Governor Perry and sort of worked briefly. DOWDELL: It was tried with Governor Perry. But Governor Perry said things like, I`ll challenge you to a pull-up competition. I mean, that`s just as vacuous as anything Donald Trump said. Some of the things he said there, he landed serious blows there. And it was pretty witty, it was funny. HAYES: It was, it was an insult comic shtick, but it sort of like, it takes, you know, fight fire with fire. DOWDELL: And he came across for the first time seemingly having some fortitude, some, some gravitas, which no one`s ever used those terms to describe Bobby Jindal. DOMENECH: I think there`s one thing, and not just that he has white papers. Unlike Donald Trump`s only white paper, he`s actually read them. But I think this is also a situation where you`re talking about two populist southern governors who wanted to appeal to a lot of these people getting sucked up by Donald Trump right now, to basically trying to send a message, hey, look, we respect your views a lot more than this guy does. He`s somebody who is just playing to all of these different games. He`s not someone who is serious on policy. You should be paying attention to what we had to say. HAYES: So Trump then responding, "Of course, Bobby Jindal did not make the debate stage. Therefore, I`ve never met him." It was tweet one. And tweet two, which I think it`s just the perfect distillation of Trumpism. "I only respond to people who register more than 1 percent in the polls. I never thought he had a chance and I`ve been proven right." Jindal tweeting at Trump, "Real Donald Trump is having a hard time lately and doesn`t remember we met. He wrote a check, a fool and his money." Which is a good thing, but also kind of cell phone, he doesn`t remember me and he gave me money. DOWDELL: But Donald Trump is responding to Bobby Jindal. He`s tweeting he`s not responding, right? And that`s the thing, no discipline. He can`t help himself. HAYES: Right. This is my question to you. This is the other theoretical question here. I was saying today as we were talking. The Trump campaign, feuds are to the Trump campaign as gasoline is to a car. Like, it literally runs on them. It runs on the media attention. Someone wrote that the best model to understand Donald Trump is like the heel in professional wrestling, which is a great point. The heel needs to be fighting with everyone all the time. That`s part of the character. And that`s kind of the role he`s playing. My question is, like, is that actually calculated? Or is it just what Tara`s saying, he can`t help himself? DOMENECH: I think he thrives on catching beef from everybody and getting in there in the ring and always comes out, it seems like, winning at the end. I think that the difficulty that Trump actually faces is one that`s a different kind of attack. You know, Jerry Seinfeld where he talks about how he would deal with hecklers and he would deal with them differently than other comics. Instead of sort of getting into it with them and getting mad, he would be sympathetic with them and sort of say, what`s wrong? Why is tonight not working out the way you thought? Didn`t you want to come here and laugh? And I actually think the one person on this stage who has the potential to do that to Trump who I think is getting under his skin is Carly Fiorina. I think she has the ability to go up against him as a fellow outsider, fellow nonpolitician, and basically make, you know, sort of an extended olive branch. Donald, why are you saying these sorts of things about women? HAYES: That`s a good point. And I think the other thing about Fiorina, you know, it`s -- Donald Trump said a lot of ugly things about a lot of people. It`s not hard for him to say ugly things about women in an ugly way as we saw with Fiorina. And, you know, this question of whether ultimately is there going to be some straw that breaks a camel`s back in terms of something he says, or has he shown that`s just not going to be what ultimately brings down Donald Trump? DOWDELL: I think that Donald Trump support is so hardened at this point, the fact that you had to deal with his angry mob coming after you, right? The fact that so many people have had to -- HAYES: That`s a small, group of people. DOWDELL: That`s a group -- I think it`s small, but it`s not as small as we think it is. I think -- HAYES: That`s a fact. DOWDELL: As someone, who --as you well know, I was on "The Apprentice." and to have some black women on the apprentice after all the racist comments he made about black people and some Latinos come to me and e-mail me about supporting him, it kind of gives me pause. So I think that people should not discount some of the support he has. And it has hardened. And there are a number of reasons for that. We don`t have enough time to get into them. But I do think when it comes to Carly Fiorina, I think she has an advantage because she`s a woman, and I think that`s going to continue to chip away at his -- I think it`s going to continue to push people away from him. But I don`t think those people were already particularly attracted to him. HAYES: I think that`s probably true. I also think it`s interesting, increasingly, how he deals with Ben Carson who is in temperament literally the opposite. DOMENECH: Yes. HAYES: If you were to take, spin around a Donald Trump personality description and come up with Ben Carson. And it`ll be interesting to see how that plays out. DOMENECH: I loved him passing all sorts of recommendations on his performance as a doctor. That was rich. HAYES: Ben Domenech, Tara Dowdell, thank you very much. Still to come, he`s surging the polls, and I will be joined by the man himself. My interview with the one, the only Bernie Sanders is next. Plus, the last attempt to block Obama`s signature Iran deal fails. Senator Al Franken joins me to talk about the victory. And later, is the "New York Times" out to get Hillary Clinton? That`s what David Brock of Media Matters thinks. And he`ll be there to tell me why. Those stories and more ahead. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REPORTER: We watched as refugees like this family from Syria picked through donated clothing for something warm and dry. Mothers swaddled their babies. Others, huddled at bus stops. Hungarian volunteers have come to the border area to give out ponchos, food and clothing, not the government, though. It`s still treating this as a police problem. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: As Europe struggles to deal with an ever growing humanitarian crisis today, the White House announced a change in policy. The Obama administration says the U.S. will accept at least 10,000 Syrian refugees over the next year. And while that is a significant increase, the U.S. has taken in about 1,600 Syrian refugees in total since Syria`s civil war began four years ago. The effort still lags behind other countries. Germany has said previously, it would accept about 800,000 refugees. And part of the reason for the lag in U.S. response is a lengthy screening process for refugees, designed to identify militants and prevent criminals from entering the country. An average asylum seeker from Syria can expect an 18 to 24-month wait before he or she is granted refugee status. Yet despite those safeguards, Congressman Peter King of New York took today`s announcement as an opportunity to raise the specter of terrorism, issuing a statement that reads in part, "I oppose this decision. We do not want another Boston marathon bombing." There are so many things wrong with that statement. It`s hard to know where to start. Not the least of which is the Boston marathon bombers didn`t grow up anywhere near Syria. Meanwhile, the refugee crisis is sure to be a prominent issue in the presidential campaign. And ahead, I`ll ask one of the candidates just how many refugees should the United States be welcoming here? Bernie Sanders joins me next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: For the first time, Senator Bernie Sanders is statistically tied with Hillary Clinton in Iowa. A new poll from Quinnipiac University showing that a 41 percent of likely Democratic Iowa caucus-goers support Sanders compared to 40 percent who back Clinton. That`s a huge development considering that as recently as July, the same poll showed Clinton with a commanding 19 percentage point lead. And Bernie Sanders isn`t just surging in Iowa. He`s also topping the polls in New Hampshire. The latest NBC-Marist poll showing his 11 percentage points ahead of Hillary Clinton. Now, New Hampshire and Iowa are the two states where Bernie Sanders has been concentrating his resources so far. But today, he announced his campaign is expanding. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SANDERS: What we are now going to be doing is starting to put some resources into states beyond Iowa, beyond New Hampshire, states that will be coming up on Super Tuesday. And all I can tell you at this point is we`re feeling pretty good. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Joining me now, Vermont senator and Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders. Senator, I`ve got to ask you about this "Times" article about a plan "B" that various unnamed, I guess, Democratic establishment figures are floating should Hillary Clinton, you know, crater and obviously, we can`t have Bernie Sanders, I mean, come on, the guy can`t win in an election. Is that -- is that a real thing that you`re encountering in any conversation with anyone? Anything you`re hearing? Do you think that`s basically not actually a conversation that`s happening. I`m curious. SANDERS: I have no idea whether it is, or not, but it doesn`t matter. What matters is that all over this country, not just in Iowa, not just in New Hampshire, but all over this country, Chris, the message is getting out. And people are sick and tired of seeing an economy that`s working for the billionaires while at the same time the middle class continues to disappear. They can`t afford to send their kids to college. Trade policies to send our jobs abroad. And the American people don`t want more establishment politics or establishment economics. And we`re doing great, and we`re going to continue to do great. HAYES: That poll that showed you tied in Iowa, when you, I don`t know, when you found out, maybe last night, maybe this morning, were you surprised? SANDERS: Yes, I was. Look, this is what I thought. HAYES: What`s going on? SANDERS: Well, yes, what I thought from day one is that we had a message, which said, you know what, we`ve got to start creating a government that works for all people, we`ve got to create millions of jobs, we have to make public colleges and universities tuition-free. We ought to control the outrageous increases in prescription drug costs. We have to have pay equity for women, workers, we have to rebuild our infrastructure. All of those ideas, I knew in my heart were going to resonate with the American people. But I did not believe they would resonate quite so fast. HAYES: But do they resonate with the American people? Or do they resonate with a very small subsection of Democratic primary voters who are liberals and they share Bernie Sanders and watching right now? Or do they resonate more broadly? SANDERS: Chris, don`t become an inside the beltway pundit. HAYES: I`m not. I ask that partly tongue in cheek, Senator, you know that. SANDERS: Come out to our rallies. And you know what you`re going to find? You`re going to find thousands of working people, thousands of young people who want to see fundamental changes in the way we do economics and politics in this country. And I`ll tell you something else, there is a very profound disgust in this country at our current campaign finance system, which is allowing billionaires to buy elections. And I don`t have, you know, I don`t have a super PAC. And frankly, we`re going to get outspent. But I think people appreciate we`re raising our money from small, individual contributors. HAYES: You know, one of the things I`m not sure people recognize or know about you, particularly knowing you in this context, is that you`re a really excellent legislator. Whether you hate Bernie Sanders politics or you love Bernie Sanders, somewhere in between, just as a legislator, I`ve reported on, seen you close, work the system, get amendments in, forge coalitions, you`ve got legislation right now to stop a big pension cut that will be coming because of federal legislation. Legislation on a prescription drug cut. I guess my question is, what about executive experience? I mean, you`re running to manage the most difficult unmanageable entity, perhaps, in the world. No, it really is. It`s a real management task. SANDERS: Right. HAYES: Like do you feel ready to do that? SANDERS: The answer is, I do. To the degree as you point out anybody feels ready. Look, nobody thinks that running the United States government today in a dysfunctional political climate with all of the enormous problems facing us throughout the world where you have Wall Street and corporate America exercising enormous power over the legislative process. Nobody in their right mind, Chris, thinks this is an easy job. But I do have legislative experience, by the way, obviously, a little bit smaller. It was the city of Burlington. I was mayor there for eight years. We went a long way to transform that city to make it one of the more livable and beautiful small cities in America. But I think the trick of running the United States executive branch is to bring in good people, and my goal will be to bring in people who are there to protect the interest of working families, not Wall Street, not corporate America. And I think we have the ideas about how we can make government work for the middle class and working families, not just for the billionaires. HAYES: You know, as I listen to you and watched your speeches, it`s occurred to me, I would love just my personal rooting interest, partly because I cover this and I like listening to this stuff, I love more Democratic debates. You`re on the record saying you want -- you would be open to them, as well. Martin O`Malley has called the system rigged that`s produced the six debates. Do you agree with him on that? SANDERS: Look, all I will say is that I think the more debates, the better. I think when you`ve got over 60 percent of the people not voting in the last election, when many people are consciousness about what goes on in Washington is not very strong, the idea that we have a clash of ideas, the idea we talk about, the real issues facing the American people, needless to say is something I believe. You have heard me say this many, many times, Chris. That my concern about the media, corporate media in this country is too much attention is paid to political gossip in polls. Not enough attention paid to the needs of working families. And the different ideas that candidates have to address these issues. We`ve got 51 percent of African-American kids today who are unemployed or underemployed. We have more people living in jail -- more people in jail than any other country on earth. What are we going to do about that? HAYES: So, let me -- this is something that hits close to home for me. OK? I grew up as a lefty, a liberal. I had a critique of corporate media, of horse race politics and coverage. And now, here I am hosting a cable news show. SANDERS: And you think it`s great. HAYES: No, it`s not that. It`s not that. But this applies I think in a pretty profound way and certain ways to your candidacy, right? I`ve discovered there`s all sorts of institutional incentives. The very incentives that you talk about of big money, there`s a kind of gravity in the room that pulls you towards certain things and you`ve got to come up with strategies to avoid that gravity so you don`t get sucked to the same place everyone else does. SANDERS: Right. HAYES: But the question for you, is what is your strategy there, right? If you enter office day one, big money and still has a lot of power, all of those same forces are still there. SANDERS: Yes. Absolutely. And Chris, if you ever came out to one of my speeches and not only would you see working people and low-income people and people of color and young people, but this is what you would hear -- is that no president, not Bernie Sanders or anybody else. Not the best president in the history of the world is going to address the crises facing the American middle class and working class unless we have a political revolution. Unless millions of people are engaged in the political process so that we can stand up to the billionaire class and corporate America. I happen to have a lot of respect and affection for Barack Obama. Biggest political mistake that he made is after his brilliant campaign in 2008, he basically said to the millions of people who supported him, thanks for getting me elected, I will take it from here. I will not make that mistake. If I`m elected president, trust me, we`ll be directly involved and working with millions of people who will tell the billionaire class their day is over, they`re not going to get it all. They`re going to start paying their fair share off taxes. We are going to create millions of jobs. We are going to raise the minimum wage. Wall Street will pay a tax on speculation whether they like it or not because millions of people now will be involved in the political process. HAYES: All right. Let me end on this question, which we have been asking every campaign, Democrat and Republican for president about the Syrian refugee situation. White House today announced they`re going to increase the cap to 10,000 Syrian refugees to bring in. We took in about 1,000 last year. Martin O`Malley has asked for 65,000. Do you -- as a presidential candidate, do you have a number we should be allowing into the country this year as you watch this humanitarian crisis unfold? SANDERS: You`re right. It is a humanitarian crisis of the worst kind, people leaving the native homes with the shirts on their back as all of their possessions. I don`t think you can come up with a number because we don`t know the dynamic and the dimension of the problem. What I do believe is Europe has got to help address that in an equitable way. They`re working on that. And I`ll tell you something else, I think Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates. They`ve got address, and the United States does as well -- you`ve got a worldwide problem, we can`t turn our backs and we`ve got to solve this problem in a fair and equitable way. HAYES: All right. We will maybe follow up with you for a number or your office. I want to say happy birthday, my understanding was two days ago. You don`t look a day over 50. SANDERS: All right. See you -- you`ve got a career in politics. Keep that up, Chris. HAYES: Thank you, senator. I really appreciate it. SANDERS: OK. HAYES: All right, still to come, a big day for President Obama`s key foreign policy initiative. I`ll talk to Senator Al Franken who voted against the Republican-led attempt to kill the Iran deal. Stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: Today, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo proposed a $15 an hour minimum wage statewide for fast food workers. His proposal comes after a state wage board examines the issue and recommend the higher wage be phased in for New York City fast food workers by 2018 and across the state by 2021. It also comes after a long campaign of activism to raise the rate. The significant raise, up from New York`s current minimum wage of $8.75 an hour also marks a shift for Governor Cuomo who in his state of the state address earlier this year proposed about $11 an hour. Today, the governor with the support of Vice President Biden before a pro-union crowd proposed the wage hike to $15 an hour which would be the highest statewide wage in the country if adopted. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ANDREW CUOMOR, GOVERNOR OF NEW YORK: A minimum wage of $8.75 is not a minimum wage in the state of New York at all. If you work full-time, you shouldn`t have to choose between paying the rent and buying food. JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: To make this resurgent permanent, we need to address the single biggest issue facing not just individuals but our entire economy, and that`s stagnant wages. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: That line there, that will probably do a good job of keeping the Biden for president speculation spinning. Also, I will say, I have been quite critical of Governor Cuomo for some of his policies, but this is, this is impressive and it is not without political risks. And in the ongoing feud between Governor Cuomo and New York Mayor Bill de Blasio, it`s also something the mayor can support. And today, he did. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: Well, today, today became official. Senate Democrats delivered the president his biggest foreign policy victory yet clearing the way for the historic nuclear Iran deal to go into effect. As 42 Democrats blocked a bill that would`ve torpedoed the six-nation nuclear accord the administration says will prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons. Today`s filibuster essentially ends a years long effort to kill that agreement and avoids a veto showdown between the president and congress that many thought was inevitable just a few weeks ago. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. HARRY REID, (D) NEVADA: People around the world should know that today`s outcome was clear, decisive and final. There`s now no doubt whatsoever that congress of the United States will allow this historic agreement to go forward. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: With me now is Senator Al Franken, Democrat from Minnesota, one of the 42 Democrats who voted to block the resolution of disapproval earlier today. Senator, put this in context, I mean, how big of a deal is what happened today to finally, essentially, legislatively block efforts to undo or disrupt the nuclear deal with Iran? SEN. AL FRANKEN, (D) MINNESOTA: Well, I think that would have been a terrible thing to do. And that`s why I voted against the -- what basically the Republicans are trying to do, and a couple of Democrats, as well. This deal is the most effective and realistic option that we had to make sure that Iran doesn`t get a nuclear weapon or everything we can do to make sure they don`t get a nuclear weapon in the next 15 years and beyond. And I did not hear from the opponents of the bill any real rational alternative to this deal. You know, sometimes they would say, well, we could reject it and get a better deal. But I talked to the ambassadors and other diplomats from the other P5+1 countries and they all said that we couldn`t go back to the table and that the sanctions would erode and maybe completely unravel. And that just wasn`t a realistic option. HAYES: You are one of a number of Senators who are Jewish. And that doesn`t seem particularly... FRANKEN: I am? Yes, I am. HAYES: ...germane and not something I would usually lead with in a question... FRANKEN: Yeah, that`s... HAYES: ...except for the fact, the coverage of this really has focused, in a way that I sometimes find a little odd, or bizarre or even uncomfortable about, you know, Jewish members of congress. The Times today running a graph with where people were and whether they were Jewish, or not. Did you feel any like particular spiritual emotional anguish based on your faith or about your Jewish roots in trying to make up your mind on this? FRANKEN: Well, I am Jewish. And, you know, I have a, you know, I`m a big supporter of the state of Israel. And I felt that this was in the security interests of Israel. I feel it`s in the security interest of the United States. And I talked to a lot of people in coming to this decision, including friends of Israel, who were on both sides of this. And I know that, you know, the former heads of the security agencies in Israel were -- many of them were in favor of this deal. So -- but, you know, a lot, I believe that a large majority of the Jewish members in both the House and the Senate came to the same conclusion I did. HAYES: There`s a little bit of a controversy right now about the debates in the campaign. And it`s something that as a Democrat and someone who cares about the future of the party seems important, how many debates will there be and under what circumstances, do you feel that six is number at the current amount of debates are enough? Should there be more? Something you`ve been following? FRANKEN: Not really. But, you know, I think that as this campaign go goes on, there will -- you know, we`ll see what the need for debates are. You know, obviously, I think the longer primary campaign goes on for the nomination, probably, you would add debates. If it looks like 2008 or something like that, then probably that would happen, I would imagine. HAYES: I have to ask you this question, you have turned away from a life of comedy to be a United States Senator, a very effective one, a thoughtful and serious one. Is there some part of you that wants to relapse as you watch the Donald Trump phenomenon unfold? Are you sort of secretly writing jokes that you`re sending to other comedians? Do you feel the instincts to partake comedically? FRANKEN: You know, I think it`s -- I think the comedians are going to do this. And I think that there will be plenty of that. And there already has been. So, no, I`m really focused on the work before the senate. That`s my job. And it`s the best job I`ve ever had. HAYES: all right. Senator Al Franken, it`s really a pleasure, thank you so much for joining me. FRANKEN: Thank you. HAYES: We should take note The New York Times article I asked Senator Al Franken about earlier appears to have been changed. The inofgraphic no longer notes whether or not the Democratic Senators who are against the Iran deal are Jewish, or not. Coming up, I`ll talk to David Brock about his new book that alleges he has proof of a bias in the New York Times against Hillary Clinton. Stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: You may recall this moment when presidential candidate Donald Trump took the stage at yesterday`s anti-Iran deal rally. Yes, that was Donald Trump entering the stage to a rally filled with Apocalyptic rhetoric to REM`s "It`s the End of the World as We Know it and I Feel Fine." And his use of that prompted this response to REM, "while we do not authorize or condone the use of our music at this political event and do ask that these candidates cease and desist from doing so, let us remember, there are things greater of greater importance at stake here. The media and the American voter should focus on the bigger picture, not allow grandstanding politicians to distract us from the pressing issues of the day and of the current presidential campaign." Oh, but there`s more, the band`s lead singer was quoted as venting a bit beyond that statement, "go blank yourselves, the lot of you," Stipe reportedly said in a quote passed along by band member Mike Mills. "You sad, attention grabbing, power hungry little men. Do not use our music or my voice for your moronic charade of a campaign." Mills added in a tweet, "personally, I think the orange clown will do anything for attention. I hate giving it to him." Ah, the conundrum. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: One of the most powerful and influential media outlets in the United States, perhaps the most powerful and influential, the New York Times and one of the most prominent advocates for the Democratic presidential front-runner Hillary Clinton are now engaging in open warfare. The advocate in question is Media Matters founder, one-time Clinton antagonist David Brock, who in a book out next week argues The Times, which has been aggressive in covering Clinton`s use of a private email server as secretary of state has been turned into, quote, megaphone for conservative propaganda against Clinton. Adding that, quote, as it concerns Clinton coverage, The Times will have a special place in hell. Brock singles out Times senior politics editor and former Washington bureau chief Carolyn Ryan for particular criticism citing unnamed newsroom sources to claim Ryan has skewed coverage out of a desire to take Clinton down. Times reporters dispute Brock`s claim, including political reporter Amy Chozick who covers Clinton for The Times and who told Politico that Ryan is, quote, a fair-minded, inspiring, and brilliant editor who has never shown even a hint of bias for or against any candidate we cover. In a statement to All In, The Times, which endorsed Clinton for president in 2008, had this to say, "David Brock is an opportunist and a partisan who specializes in personal attacks. His partisanship has led him to lash out at some of our aggressive coverage of important political figures, and it`s unsurprising he`s now turned personal. He`s wrong on all counts." Ouch. Well, I bet you`d like to know what David Brock has to say to that. And you`re in luck. When we come back, my interview with David Brock about his claim, the paper of record is out to get Hillary Clinton. Stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: Joining me now, David Brock, author of Killing the Messenger, the right wing plot to derail Hillary Clinton hijacked her government, in which Brock claims the New York Times has become, quote, a megaphone for conservative propaganda against Hillary Clinton. All right, as far as I can tell, there are two kinds of statements issued by the press shop of the New York Times. Statements about everyone in the world and statements about David Brock. They`re really, I mean, that is very strong language. DAVID BROCK, KILLING THE MESSENGER: Sure. HAYES: They basically think you are a hatchet man, and you`re going after their people because you have an agenda. What`s your response to that? BROCK: Well, my response is, yeah, I`m a Hillary Clinton advocate and supporter. But that doesn`t mean, at all, that my facts are wrong. And I lay out a detailed case in this book about an institutional bias against the Clintons by the New York Times. You have to start with Benghazi, okay, a failed investigation. Even Republicans investigating it find nothing. So Republican operatives collude with the New York Times to create this e-mail scandal. And let me tell you why. I think you may have mentioned it. It`s a brilliant stroke because this is a liberal paper, right? And it`s the gold standard and it`s the newspaper of record. So it`s the perfect host body for the anti-Clinton virus. HAYES: A lot of this hinges-- BROCK: Let me just say, I know this is counterintuitive, particularly for liberals. HAYES: No, no. It`s not that. BROCK: I just wanted to get into some examples. Go ahead. HAYES: Okay. BROCK: Okay, look. Let me take three. First, the first e-mail story on the personal use of e-mail. It says that she may have broken rules in the subhead, okay. Now, the relevant statute cited is passed after the secretary leaves office. It doesn`t, okay. And the public editor of the Times, not David Brock, says the story`s faulty. HAYES: Right. All right. BROCK: Number two. Republican operative Peter Schweizer. You remember him? He has this book out. The Times does some kind of deal with him that a lot of people, even in their newsroom thinks is unusual. They never disclose the terms of it, to piggyback off his reporting. HAYES: This is the book on the -- BROCK: And they run a big story saying Hillary Clinton did a favor for a Clinton Foundation donor in the sale of a Uranium company to Russia. It turns out many federal agencies had to approve this, not just the State Department. She wasn`t involved. And so, you`ve got another problematic story. And three, the big one that people I`m sure are familiar with is the story where they say they put Hillary Clinton and criminal referral in a headline. Now, nobody would want that to happen to them. And it turns out there is no criminal referral. She`s not the subject of any investigation. They have embarrassing walkback and then, again -- (CROSSTALK) HAYES: Okay. So you`ve -- let`s say, I think, for the sake of debating time here. BROCK: Sure. HAYES: I will concede those are three stories with problems. Even though I think two of them more than one. BROCK: Yep. HAYES: There seems to be a strong case and a weak case here. The weak case, which I think is plausible is that there`s an interest in seeing the front runner being in a competitive race. There is a special journalistic incentive to someone as high status, as formidable as Hillary Clinton. And that can lead to overreach, it could lead to mistakes. BROCK: Sure. HAYES: But, that`s not the case you`re making. The strong case that you`re making is that there`s actually like an institutional vendetta against Hillary Clinton that somehow suffuses the Ethernet network at the New York Times. That sounds conspiratorial to me. I don`t even understand how that`s transmitted. You see what I`m saying? BROCK: Right. I do. I do. First of all, you`ve got a pattern. I think you`ve got more than three cases. I could go back two years to a Clinton Foundation story. HAYES: But isn`t that part of a larger thing? Like, in the case of Benghazi, everyone was running nonsense Benghazi stories. I remember networks that-- BROCK: But the New York Times has led this, and it`s been particularly damaging, it`s led the charge on this. Even in the last month, 70% of their stories and columns have been about this e-mail deal when Hillary Clinton is out talking about issues that people really care about. And there`s much less coverage of that. So let me go back to one point. HAYES: Yeah. BROCK: You raised Carolyn Ryan and I tell the story in the book that in this first e-mail story, Nick Merrill, the spokesman for Hillary Clinton gives a very lengthy reply to the paper before it runs that would knock down, take the wind out of their sails. And the editor, Carolyn Ryan defends the decision to cut that down to a very short... HAYES: But we always do that. BROCK: She knows it`s a lie. That`s a prejudgment. And I think -- yes, she knows the statement`s a lie. And the Clintons are just liars. Now, I think that`s an unprofessional error in judgment and it does show a bias. HAYES: And you know this because of sources in the newsroom? BROCK: That`s right. Yeah. HAYES: So you`re saying that you have sources in the newsroom that are coming to you and saying these things are going on? BROCK: Sure, absolutely. Yeah, that`s right. HAYES: We should trust that? BROCK: Yep. I mean look, I`ve talked to some today. And listen, nobody`s defending the coverage. There`s a lot of finger pointing going on in the newsroom and one of the reporters, Michael Schmidt who`s led the charge is now being called a rogue and a cowboy. So there`s a lot of finger pointing. But nobody`s defending the coverage. And back to, you know, why this is. So, you`re right that there`s careerism and opportunism here, and that Hillary is a big target. But, look, people say, well, Carolyn Ryan and some others are just as tough on all the candidates. But look, Jeb Bush has an e-mail problem that`s been discussed in the press. Turning over only a certain number of e-mails. HAYES: The Times has written about it. BROCK: On page 814. HAYES: Pages. We`re in the post-page age. Let me ask you this, is there a particular way out of this, do you see? BROCK: Sure. HAYES: The cynical interpretation is that you`re working the refs. What do you want to see happen? BROCK: Well, I`d like to see better coverage in The Times. I don`t know if that`s going to happen. From my point of view, it seems to me, and Media Matters has been on this for months, that they weren`t going to stop. And I don`t know if this is going to stop them. But I`m just trying to open a conversation and a dialogue about this and have a real conversation about what the heck is going on in that place. HAYES: We should note you started this a year ago before a lot of these stories came out. David Brock, thanks for coming. BROCK: Thanks very much. HAYES: That is All In for this evening. The Rachel Maddow Show starts right now. Good evening Rachel. THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. 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