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All In with Chris Hayes, Transcript 08/24/15

Guests: Ben Domenech, David Cay Johnston, Joseph Stiglitz, Sam Stein,Charlie Pierce, Randi Weingarten

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voice-over): Tonight on ALL IN -- DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: China is taking our jobs. They`re taking our money. HAYES: After a freefall on Wall Street, Scott Walker demands the cancellation of the Chinese president`s state visit and Donald Trump says "I told you so." TRUMP: We have nobody that has a clue. HAYES: Plus, Jeb Bush takes on Trump at the border. JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If he was interested in a more comprehensive approach, he might want to read my book "Immigration Wars." HAYES: And defends his use of the term "anchor baby." BUSH: Frankly, it`s more related to Asian people. HAYES: Then, new rumors about Biden 2016. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s the original authentic candidate. HAYES: And the Americans in Paris who stopped a tragedy. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He seemed like he was ready to fight to the end, so were we. HAYES: ALL IN starts right now. (END VIDEOTAPE) HAYES: Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes. On a day when the stock market panicked amid worries over China`s economy, with the Dow falling more than a thousand points in the first six minutes of trading and eventually closing down nearly 600 points, the front-runner in the GOP presidential race, the most trusted candidate on the economy among Republican primary voters according to poll after poll, Donald Trump delivered an Instagram address. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: I`ve been telling everybody for a long time China is taking our jobs. They`re taking our money. Be careful. They`ll bring us down. You have to know what you`re doing. We have nobody that has a clue. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Now, what Trump`s actually been saying that the wily Chinese are kicking our butts doesn`t fit with the fact that the Chinese economy is near in crisis and its leaders seem to be at a loss about what to do about it. But if you like nuance, you can vote for someone else. It has been fascinating watching the other GOP candidates try to deal with Trump`s particular brand of politics, the ambiguity free ideologically muddled attitude-driven approach that`s come to be known as Trumpism. Scott Walker today tried not just to channel Trump`s appeal but do it one better, suggesting that President Obama should cancel an official visit by China`s president in the wake of the stock market selloff. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GOV. SCOTT WALKER (R-WI), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Why would we be giving one of our highest things the president can do, and that`s a state dinner for Xi Jinping, the head of China, at a time when all of these problems are pending out there. We should say those should only be -- those honors should be bestowed upon leaders and countries that are allies and supporters of the United States. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Jeb Bush, meanwhile, has been trying to counter Trumpism by questioning Trump`s conservative bona fides. A strategy based on the dubious assumption that Republican voters care whether Trump is ideologically pure. Ahead of Trump`s big rally in Alabama on Friday, the Bush camp sent an e-mail to voters in the state calling Trump`s positions, quote, "deeply out of step with the Alabama way of life." The pro-Bush super PAC even flew a plane over the rally with a bumper reading, "Trump for higher taxes, Jeb for president." And today, Bush made the pilgrimage to the Texas border where he slammed Trump`s immigration proposals. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BUSH: His proposal is unrealistic. It will cost hundreds of billions of dollars. It will violate people`s civil liberties. It will create friction with our third-largest trading partner that`s not necessary and I think he`s wrong about this. If he was interested in a more comprehensive approach, he might want to read my book "Immigration Wars" which I published four years ago. I welcome Mr. Trump into the debate, I think that`s great. He`s a serious candidate and he ought to be held to what serious candidates need to be held to, he needs to be held to account for his views. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Trump doesn`t seem all that interested in the details. In an interview yesterday, he declined to offer specifics about his plan to deport every last undocumented worker in the U.S. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS: Where are you going to get the money? Where are you going to get the forces? Exactly how are you going to do it? What are the specifics here? TRUMP (via telephone): George, it`s called management. The first thing we have to do is secure the border but it`s called management. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: And before Jeb Bush`s border trip today, Trump criticized his rival for having a more empathetic world view. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: Well, I think it`s great he`s going to the border because I think he`ll now find out that it`s not an act of love when the people -- you know, he said that people crossing are crossing as an act of love, which came back to haunt him. He will find out it`s not an act of love. I was down on the border. It`s rough, tough, stuff. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Rough, tough, stuff. That`s apparently what Trump`s supporters want to hear, simple, aggressive and blissfully free of the boring complexities of governance. Joining me, MSNBC national correspondent Joy Reid, as well as conservative journalist Ben Domenech, publisher of "The Federalist" and host of the Federalist Radio Hour. Ben, it seems to me that Jeb Bush is operating on the premise right now that the way to come back at Trump is to basically counter him mostly on substance. I mean, he`s been dragged into some of the same rhetoric, there`s the anchor baby thing. There`s an amazing clip of him defending that terminology which we`re going to play in a moment which is pure vep (ph). But he seems to have the faith which I in some ways find admirable, I guess, that this kind of substantive approach basically this is not serious, here`s actually what it would look like and here`s the reason that he`s not actually a conservative because he has these beliefs that are out of step with our ideology, that that is going to work. I`m not sure that it is. BEN DOMENECH, THE FEDERALIST: Yes, I think you`re right about that, Chris. And I think one of the reasons that you`re right is because I think Trump`s support is not particularly motivated by conservatism. HAYES: Yes. DOMENECH: It`s motivated by hawkish approach to the border and to immigration policy. He`s the only candidate out there endorsing mass deportation and he`s tapped into, I think, a lot of anger and frustration that backs that idea. At the same time, his appeal is so much style over substance, in the sense that he`s about aggression. He`s about expressing his views in the same way as some guy who`s been at the bar all evening yelling at the TV. And I think that this is the sort of thing that connects with the American people. What doesn`t connect with the American people or at least or the Republican electorate at the moment is Jeb Bush`s kind of nerdy approach to policy, which is something that is admirable on his part but is not the sort of thing that gets you the kind of excitement and the kind of crowds for your various long-winded addresses as Trump currently does. HAYES: On that approach to policy, you know, he basically used the term "anchor babies" in a conversation with Bill Bennett. A lot of people find that term offensive. I myself am one of them. Also because it`s like -- it`s a fictional phenomenon in a certain way. DOMENECH: There were 8,500, basically, foreign nationals who had what you could term "anchor babies" in, like, the last year or whatever, 2013. HAYES: Right. And that is -- let`s be clear, there`s a thing called birth tourism to use a phrase which I think is better -- DOMENECH: Yes, exactly. HAYES: -- and those people are people with a lot of money from abroad who come here and don`t -- it`s not an anchor, they have the child and then they go back and then in the future when the kid is 18 they want to send him to Harvard, basically the paperwork is easier. Like that is -- and he tried to pivot today to that phenomenon with this back and forth in a pretty cringe-inducing way. Take a listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BUSH: My background, my life, the fact that I`m immersed in the immigrant experience. This is ludicrous for the Clinton campaign and others to suggest that somehow -- somehow I`m using a derogatory term. What I was talking about was the specific case of fraud being committed where there`s organized efforts and, frankly, it`s more related to Asian people coming into our country, having children, in the organized efforts taking advantage of a noble concept with a birth right citizenship. I support the 14th Amendment. Nothing about what I`ve said should be viewed as derogatory towards immigrants at all. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: What do you think, Joy? JOY REID, MSNBC NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: OK, well that clears that up. It`s the Asians! (LAUGHTER) HAYES: Here`s the thing I would say, right? What I find interesting about that back and forth is he`s trying to redirect to this thing I think that Ben is talking about, "Rolling Stone" published about this tiny micro niche industry for global elites. But let`s be honest, that`s not what anyone was talking about. It`s not the conversation you`re having with Bill Bennett. Let`s be clear. You don`t get to -- there`s a little bit of a bait and switch. REID: This strikes me of that`s what happens in campaigns where a staffer found that article that you`re talking about, showed it to the candidate or showed it to a senior person in the campaign and that bled into his attempt to fix his other problem. And that he was using a short hand to do it. Now on the upside, before giving that odd not helpful answer that`s already the subject of e-mails from a lot of Jeb Bush potential opponents, he did actually give his "I lived the immigrant experience in my own household" in perfect Spanish. So, he has sort of this advantage. Then he went and threw it away by showing the country he`s willing to go to an even more offensive version than before. HAYES: And I think also what we`re seeing here from a tone perspective, Ben, is like and for lack of a better phrase, it`s like Donald Trump keeps running up on stage and like pantsing Jeb Bush and these candidates and that`s his whole approach. It`s juvenile. I mean, it`s deeply juvenile. It`s adolescent. DOMENECH: It`s juvenile but it works. HAYES: But how do you respond to that? It`s like we`re trying to have an election and you feel like Jeb Bush is like giving the press avail while pulling his pants up awkwardly. DOMENECH: The thing that I think is true about this and I think you agree with me on this, Chris, is that the leadership of both parties agree on the topics of immigration and trade, and they have for quite some time. This has left a void, a group of people who feel disaffected, many of them within the Republican Party but many of them also independents which is why Trump does well among independents who basically have the opposite feelings, they are in favor of protectionism, tariffs and these different approaches, and they`re in favor of doing something that the leadership of both parties has basically said to them it`s not OK for you to want that. It`s not OK for you to want to deport these people. And Trump is playing to that and he`s playing to it perfectly in terms of his attitude and everything else. And the challenge I think for Jeb is, you know, how do you relate to somebody like that who`s running for president in a completely different way than what you would expect them to do if he was a serious candidate. REID: And I think what`s really important about what Ben said and I recommend what he wrote in "The Federalist" about this is that it`s people who are hearing that you can`t want this from Republican leaders. HAYES: Yes, right. That`s right. REID: From big corporations. So they`re just as mad at big corporations and Republicans as they are at Democrats for that. HAYES: Which very nicely cues up our next topic. Joy Reid, Ben Domenech, thank you very much. REID: Thank you. DOMENECH: Thanks. HAYES: As Joy was saying, in this campaign, Donald Trump has consistently played the role of what we might call a donor class traitor, scourge of his fellow oligarchs pointing out that wealthy people, big businesses and Republican establishments often trade campaign donations for political favors and have lots of use that are not in step with the base. This afternoon, Trump tweeted out a link to a piece from the "International Business Times" concerning the cozy relationship between politicians and Wall Street, one that happened to include Jeb Bush. It talks about how Lehman Brothers was put in charge of $250 million worth of Florida`s pension funds. Then in 2007, just as he left office, Bush secured a job as a Lehman consultant for $1.3 million a year. After that, Lehman went on to manage $1.2 billion of Florida`s money, a decision that proved disastrous when Lehman went bankrupt in 2008. Pointing to that story wasn`t the only dig Trump has made at the donor class. In an interview yesterday, he also went after "hedge fund guys" for not paying enough in taxes. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: They`re paying nothing and it`s ridiculous. I want to save the middle-class. The hedge fund guys didn`t build this country. These are guys that shift paper around and they get lucky. Some of them are friends of mine. Some I couldn`t care less about. It`s the wrong thing. The hedge fund guys are getting away with murder. They`re making a tremendous amount of money. They have to pay taxes. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Joining me now, Pulitzer Prize winning investigative journalist David Cay Johnston, columnist with "The National Memo" and professor of Syracuse University College of Law. David, here`s my theory and I want you to tell me what you think about this because you`ve covered Trump. You`ve written about him. You`ve written about the vetting the media should be doing about Trump`s record. My theory is what makes him formidable politically and the reason I now believe has a shot at the nomination, is that he is not imprisoned by the orthodoxies of the donor class. He can be against trade. He can say "screw China." He can talk about the hedge fund guys. He can talk about campaign finance. And all of that actually speaks a base that feel this is kind of populist rage that he`s able to channel. DAVID CAY JOHNSTON, THE NATIONAL MEMO: Oh, I would agree with you 100 percent about that, Chris. But let`s keep in mind that Donald is somebody who personally benefits from these things. He`s going after the hedge fund guys because of their tax favors -- well, he`s a professional real estate developer and as I showed in my book "Temples of Chance", stopped paying income tax in the late 1970s and I`ll bet you never see Donald`s returns because they`ll show he pays little to no tax on his income because of laws he benefits from. So, on the one hand -- HAYES: But let me stop you right there. This is the thing about him that is fascinating. I think that would probably bear out. I doubt we`ll see tax returns. But in a fascinating way, watching him, you know, speak in Alabama and watching what he`s sort of been -- his shtick on the stump, you know, he`s happy to sort of be like "I`m a businessman, I screw people over." He joked about taking the lobbyists` money and not giving them favors. I think that ends up weirdly being part of his appeal. JOHNSTON: Oh, I agree with you 100 percent. Look, both Bernie Sanders, who`s drawing bigger crowds than Trump, and Trump, are appealing to people on pretty much the same grounds. And my column in al Jazeera America tomorrow is about this, Chris, it`s about how there are people who are looking 35 years after the age of Reagan began and saying, hey, we were promised we were going to have prosperity and well off and lots of jobs and look what we got. And Trump is appealing to that while not having to deal with the fact that he`s part of the problem. HAYES: Now, you`ve been sort of talking about the sort of vetting that`s necessary. You talk about his long record. You talk about some of the dealings in Atlantic City. You talk about his personal life which you wrote a column about maybe being germane to a religiously conservative family values Republican primary voter. What`s struck me so far is how immune he has been to that vetting. And I can`t tell -- do you think it`s because the media isn`t applying it? Because the other campaigns aren`t dropping sufficient oppo or because people don`t, frankly, care? JOHNSTON: Yes, I think because people are not aware of it. None of the five big newspapers, network TV news accounts are not delving into Trump`s background. The problem we`ve always had in America with politics coverage is it`s politics reporters cover the horse race, they don`t cover the issues. I just watched on CBS the other night Trump make an utterly false statement that went unchallenged by the reporter. Probably because the reporter doesn`t know what he said is absolutely untrue and -- (CROSSTALK) HAYES: Wait, what was the statement? You can`t say that and not tell me. JOHNSTON: I`m sorry, there have been so many I can`t remember. If you want to have me back I`ll look it up and get it for you verbatim. But it leapt out in my mind as something that as a matter of economics is false and -- oh, I know what Trump said, he said "nobody gives birthright citizenship." Well, as you pointed out, virtually every country in the western hemisphere has birth right citizenship and that wasn`t challenged at all by the CBS reporter. HAYES: So, we`ve got a situation where there`s a sort of normal rules of politics which don`t seem to apply. This is someone who in some ways, I think, has -- in some ways been a public figure so long that part of the normal vetting process is weirdly -- is really priced in. Do you think that bubble bursts? What`s your prediction? JOHNSTON: Well, I`ve said from the beginning that Trump would be in this for the long haul. Four years ago he was negotiating a new TV contract. This time around his TV show is losing ratings and he didn`t want to see people say he was fired by NBC so he got out of that. I think that there`s a possibility that Trump will be the nominee, which would be devastating to the Republican Party and if he isn`t, the question is how does he exit? HAYES: Yes. JOHNSTON: Donald is like Hillary Clinton in the sense that he can`t acknowledge errors. How does he exit? I think that`s the great mystery. HAYES: Yes, how he exits is really a question. I think he`ll be in it for a while, and I think the more the race shapes up as him versus Jeb Bush, it`s good for him, it`s good for Jeb Bush, it`s bad for everybody else, yet that is the way it is driving. David Cay Johnston, always a pleasure, thank you, sir. JOHNSTON: Thank you. HAYES: Still to come, what, if anything, does the Dow Jones plunge signify. So far, theories range from normal market correction to the wrath of God. We`ll talk with a guy with a Nobel Prize to break it down for us next. Plus, as the right shifts away from the Common Core, Jeb Bush`s continued support makes him a target. Later, chatter continues about Joe Biden`s third presidential bid. We`ll look at why politicians cannot stop running for office. Those stories and more ahead. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: "The Huffington Post" had an item this morning that caught our attention, noting a couple things. One, July was the hottest month in recorded history as illustrated here by the burning West Coast. Let me say that again. July was the hottest ever that we have had data for. That`s dating back to 1880. "The Huff Po" piece chastised cable news for the paltry amount of coverage we gave to said hotness. From August 20 through Sunday, the newly released report about July being the hottest month on record was ten times on cable news. During that same period, the name Donald Trump was mentioned 245 times on MSNBC, more than 265 times on CNN and more than 240 times on FOX News. That doesn`t include re-airs. So, the tally for that four-day period of cable news coverage was "July hottest month, 10 months" Donald Trump, 750 mentions. Now, that is actually a shame and shameful. So, I will hereby do my best to rectify it, increasing by 50 percent that July was the hottest month mentions. Here we go. July was the hottest month since records began in 1880. July was the hottest month in the history of the entire world -- at least dating back to when we have data which is 1880. There has never been a hotter month on earth than July since 1880. This past July, last month, hottest in history in the 135 years since records began and so in the 1,627 months of the earth`s entire history since 1880, July was the hottest. So, now we`re up to 15 mentions and, well, that`s -- terrifying. You`re welcome. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) PAT ROBERTSON, TELEVANGELIST: We will pay dearly as a nation for this thing going on and possibly if we were to stop, stop all this slaughter, the judgment of God might be lifted from us. But it`s coming, ladies and gentlemen. We just have a little taste of it in terms of the financial system. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Different people, lots of different explanations for the stock market`s wild ride today with the Dow Jones plummeting more than a thousand points, right after the opening bell only to swing back up again ultimately to close down almost 600 points for the day. It`s around 3 percent. According to Pat Robertson, it`s God`s punishment for the Obama administration`s support of Planned Parenthood and reproductive rights. According to Donald Trump, appearing moments ago, it`s a vindication of everything he`s been saying about China on the campaign trail. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: We`re tying ourself so closely to Asia and in particular to China that this is going to be trouble for our country. And not only now have they taken our jobs and they`ve taken our base and they`ve taken our manufacturing, but now they`re pulling us down with them. And I said "we can`t do this, we can`t allow this to happen." and we have to do a big uncoupling pretty soon before it`s too late. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Now, a word to the wise -- don`t base your investment strategy on stuff political candidates say ever, even if they made a fortune in real estate. Trump is right about today`s market turmoil having to do with China, though not necessarily for the reasons he indicated. The main stock index in Shanghai just took an 8.5 percent nosedive, wiping out all the gains they made so far this year amid increasing fears about China`s slowing economic growth. The question now is was what happened today and last week also a freak occurrence? A fluke like the flash crash of 2010? Or it is a sign of something more alarming taking place in the world economy? Something that signals the coming of something like another Great Recession. I`m joined now by Nobel Prize laureate Joe Stiglitz, chief economist of the Roosevelt Institute, professor at Columbia University. It`s a great pleasure to have you here. JOSEPH STIGLITZ, NOBEL PRIZE LAUREATE: Nice to be here. HAYES: Just the person I want to talk to today. OK. What sense can we make, to the degree there is sense to be made, of any fluctuations in a stock market? What sense can we make of what happened? STIGLITZ: Well, I think between the two extremes it`s more than the flash crash. And on the other hand, it`s not like another Great Recession. HAYES: OK, that`s useful. So, this isn`t just like some bizarre random hiccup that just happened and then we all move on. Like, there`s something real stuff happening underneath, but the real stuff happening underneath is not worse financial crisis in 70 years? STIGLITZ: That`s right. We haven`t really fully recovered from that crisis. And what has happened is the stock market has gone up as if we have fully recovered. So part of the story here is reminding us that the world isn`t really on firm ground. Just to give you some examples, it`s not just China that`s having a problem. Europe is growing very slowly. There`s all the problems with the euro. HAYES: Yes. STIGLITZ: Right now, people think there`s a resolution to the Greek crisis but Greece is going to be in depression. HAYES: Yes. STIGLITZ: Depression is going to get worse. That`s not a solution. It`s a postponement of a solution. So -- and the United States, the last data that came in on the quarterly with wage increases were the lowest in 30 years. So, that`s hardly a strong recovery. HAYES: Well, part -- so part of the question we`ve had for a while is you`ve got these two lines, right? You`ve got the stock market, right? And you`ve got wages and the two have been going like this and there`s been if this question for a long time, like how long can this go on? If people don`t have more money in their pockets, how can, you know, capital valuations get -- be so high. At some point don`t they have to sell this stuff to the people who are earning wages? And so far the answer has been no, they don`t, apparently. STIGLITZ: And part of that was always the hope that the emerging markets -- China -- HAYES: Are going to step in? STIGLITZ: Would step in. HAYES: Right. STIGLTIZ: So our consumers have been devastated. Household income adjusted for inflation is lower than it was a quarter century ago. So, you know -- HAYES: That`s crazy. STIGLITZ: So things are not working well here. They`re not as bad as in Europe, but we were hoping that China would pull us out. HAYES: And that gets us to this terrifying idea, right? Which is China`s been growing, 7 percent, 8 percent, 9 percent, 10 percent year after year after year. No one knows what this whole thing we`ve constructed looks like with China in a recession. STIGLITZ: Let me -- but it`s not probably in recession. HAYES: Right. STIGLITZ: It`s claimed to be growing at 7 percent and the news coming in is it`s probably significantly less than that. But, you know recession, what economists say is two quarters of negative growth, very little evidence that it would be negative growth. HAYES: So, what we`re seeing is the trajectory of growth start to level out, perhaps, from the insane rate it`s been at for a long time. STIGLITZ: That`s right. HAYES: But that is enough! STIGLITZ: A lot of people worry that China`s like a bicycle. That you have to ride it at a certain speed and if you go lower, and what`s the critical number? If you get lower than, say, 5 percent, they start worry about it wobbling. HAYES: That`s a really useful metaphor, actually. Since I have you here, can I ask you to fact check or respond to something a presidential candidate said? This is Chris Christie on his theory about what happened today. Take a listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-NJ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: See, this president thought that money was free and easy and that he could spend as much of it he wanted to without consequence to the American people because where did he get that money from? He borrowed it from the Chinese. Lots and lots of money from the Chinese. And remember that when the Chinese hold this much of our, debt if the Chinese get a cough, we get the flu. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Chinese hold our debt therefore we are subject to fluctuations in the Chinese macro economy and stock market? STIGLITZ: Well, I give him an F both on the facts and on the analysis. In terms of the fact what is he seemed to be saying was that we since Obama have been spending beyond our means. HAYES: Right. STIGLITZ: Now, what is true is that back in 2001 and 2003, Bush pushed through a tax cut -- HAYES: Right. STIGLITZ: -- that we couldn`t afford and then he went to war and put it entirely on the credit card. The fact is that since Obama`s been in office, the economy when he got into office was in a deep, deep recession, revenues went down and that meant if he hadn`t spent the money, we would have gotten into a depression. HAYES: The other thing is, whatever T-bills they`re holding, we`re going to be exposed to their macro economy and consumers regardless. STIGLITZ: That`s the second fundamental point. So the consequence is the fact is we are in a globally integrated economy and there`s no way to get out of that. HAYES: From Professor Stiglitz to Chris Christie. Thank you, professor. STIGLITZ: Thank you. HAYES: Up next, three American men receive a French award for stopping a deadly attack. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) UNIDENTFIED FEMALE: This video shows the moments after the attack on a highspeed train inbound for Paris. As one of the Americans cares for an injured passenger the suspected terrorist lies tied up on the floor. The man wrestled him to the ground after he opened fired in the carriage. HAYES: They had originally planned on spending the night in Amsterdam but after changing their travel plans three Americans tourists, friends since middle school, boarded a highspeed train to Paris and ended up stopping a potential massacre. Happened just before 6pm Friday on a train carrying over 500 passengers. Three Americans, Alex Skarlatos, Spencer Stone, and Anthony Sadler said they heard a gunshot go off and saw a man brandishing an AK47. Tonight we are learning a fourth man, ---, a passenger with dual French and American citizenship was also involved in thwarting the attack. UNIDENTFIED FEMALE: --- sees the gunman fighting with a French passenger and rushes to help. He grabs the AK47, turns, and is shot in the back. American Spencer Stone hears the gunshot, runs towards the gunman, an gets him in a choke hold. The attacker pulls out a box cutter. Stone, Skarlatos, and Sadler beat the attacker unconscious. HAYES: Over the weekend those three men, two of them U.S. service men, spoke with reporters about the ordeal. Airmen Spencer Stone showing visable injuries, his eye bruised from the confrontation, his arm healing in a sling. SPENCER STONE, AMERICAN: Alex just hit me on the shoulder to say, "let`s go," and ran down, tackled him. We hit the ground. Alex came up and grabbed the gun out of his hand while I put anymore a choke hold. It seemed like he just kept pulling more weapons left and right. He seemed like he was ready to fight to the end so -- so were we. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: The attacker has been identified as 26-year-old Ayoub El- Khazzani, a Moroccan man living in Spain. He was on a terror watch list in France but has denied plotting a terrorist attack, instead telling investigators he had wanted to rob the train. Officials say he was carrying an assault weapon, several magazines of ammunition, a handgun and a box cutter. He remains in the custody of French authorities. Meanwhile, the courage of those who stopped the gunmen has drawn praise from around the world. And today the three American friends, still wearing their vacation attire along with a British passenger who helped tie up the suspect received France`s highest honor. At the presidential palace in Paris, French president Francois Hollande bestowing on the men the Legion of Honor, an award created by Napoleon to recognize outstanding merit. Mark Moogalian, the man who grabbed the gunman`s weapon is still recovering from that bullet wound. He will receive the award, along with a French citizen who also helped in the effort, at a later time. Now in the past, the Legion of Honor has been bestowed on more famous names: Barbra Streisand, for example, received a medal. But today, four ordinary men were given the honor for thwarting a potential catastrophe saying not only the lives of those on that train but sparing a country from the anguish and fallout of yet another senseless attack. Yet the men are modest about their quick response. When asked about why they leaped to action, airman Spencer Stone said "to survive, for my friends and everyone else on the train to make it." (COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. TED CRUZ, (R) TEXAS: In the days that follow, I will instruct the federal Department of Education -- which should be abolished -- I will instruct the Department of Education that Common Core ends today! GOV. BOBBY JINDAL, (R) LOUISIANA: I personally don`t think the standards are as great as people think they are, as some of these folks in D.C. think they are. SEN. SCOTT WALKER, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I want high standards, I just want them set by people at the local level. RICK PERRY, FORMER GOVERNOR OF TEXAS: I stood up to this Washington machine from day one by opposing Common Core. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R) NEW JERSEY; I listened over four years and 130 plus town hall meetings to complaints about Common Core and they finally got my attention. That`s why I changed. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: After years of conservative grass-roots organizing, Common Core may just be shaping up to be the sleeper issue of 2016, so much so that Donald Trump`s very quickly integrated the national reading and math standards into his stump speech as a way of hitting Jeb Bush. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, REAL ESTATE DEVELOPER: And when Jeb Bush -- ugh -- when Jeb Bush, who`s totally in favor of Common Core, weak on immigration, right? Very weak on immigration, wants to let people come in. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: The K-12 academic benchmarks set up by a bipartisan group of governors have fallen out of national favor fast. But more than that, it appears that almost 15 years after No Child Left Behind, the politics of standardized testing are shifting in the other direction pretty decisively. New polling find that a plurality in both parties oppose teachers in their community using Common Core standards to guide what they teach. A huge majority of Republicans, 69 percent, are against teachers using the standards while just 14 percent support it and 70 percent don`t know or refuse to answer. Meanwhile, 38 percent of Democrats oppose teachers using Common Core while 35 percent support it and a whopping 26 percent don`t know or refuse to answer. To generalize about the American electorate, they either don`t much like Common Core or don`t really know what it is. It looks like an issue without a base of support, which usually spells political death. Joining me now, Randi Weingarten, president of the American Federation of Teachers. That polling is fascinating on core. What do you make of that? RANDI WEINGARTEN, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN FEDERATION OF TEACHERS: So the rest -- the poll is fascinating, but the number one issue is will policymakers listen? Because basically the poll is saying stop with the high-stakes consequences of testing, we need more money in schools. We need our local schools. We need lower class size. We need good teachers. Good curriculum. And even on the charter question, the public wants charters, but they hate vouchers. So what it`s basically saying is that Common Core became about testing. Everybody sees Common Core as testing. HAYES: Those two have been -- I mean, this is key, right? Because you`ve defended Common Core, your union endorsed it, it was part of the coalition that put it together. WEINGARTEN: Absolutely. Right. HAYES: There has been a huge grass-roots movement against Common Core. WEINGARTEN: right. HAYES: Teachers in upstate New York, lefties, righties, across the political spectrum, Christian, secular, Donald Trump. WEINGARTEN: Right. Because what happened was Common Core -- and if you look at the polling for the last three years, people were willing to try it because it was supposed to be about high standards. It was supposed to be about critical thinking. It was supposed to be about helping kids develop resiliency. But when the first thing that happens is test, test, test, test... HAYES: And you weren`t told as a parent this is a Common Core test, that`s what you hear when you kid gets the test. WEINGARTEN: And then you`re told that if you`re in New York that the teachers can`t talk about the test because there`s a gag order, or if you`re in New Jersey and a kid tweeted about the test, the kid was about to be expelled because he tweeted about the test, so all of a sudden if you`re a parent you say "what is going on here?" And that`s what -- and so you see a huge shift between -- from "I want high standards for my kids. I want them to know what they need to know for life, for college, for citizenship, for career," but this became testing. So I would call this -- it is -- what Common Core has become is common testing. It`s no longer about the curriculum or standards. HAYES: There is a rebellion brewing in this country against standardized testing. That polling shows it. But you don`t even have to look at that polling. You at these sort of town halls. I mean, that is a key take away to me that there is real energy, real anger. WEINGARTEN: And but what also this poll shows is that the public gets that you don`t need standardized testing to be the be all and the end all. They say in this poll, 78 percent understood that actually looking at student engagement, teacher grades, teacher observation, graduation rates, that`s how we can actually ascertain student success. So what`s happened is in the last 15 years, first No Child Left Behind, then Race to the Top, we`ve boiled kids down to a test score, teachers to algorithms. We`ve had this fixation on sanctioned based upon test rather than fixating on children. And the public is saying in a big neon light "stop it, already." HAYES: So where is that energy going to go in the Democratic primary? You guys have already endorsed Hillary Clinton. WEINGARTEN: So one of the things she said early on which really -- which our leadership said, wow, she said "stop scapegoating teachers for the ills of society." And she -- you know, so... HAYES: Well, you guys like that. WEINGARTEN: Right. Obviously. But then look at what the Republicans did. I mean, their education summit was a bash fest. HAYES: Right. WEINGARTEN: When you -- so juxtapose John Kasich who said "get rid of teacher lounges, because that`s where teachers talk to each other..." HAYES: If I were king. WEINGARTEN: If I were king. Versus her saying, stop scapegoating. But, we need to get back to basics. HAYES: But the question is there`s a political space right now to talk to that and that`s an ongoing question in this primary. Randi Weingarten, thank you very much. WEINGARTEN: Thank you. HAYES: Coming up, with a 2016 decision yet to be made, could Joe Biden carve out a spot this late in the game? That`s ahead. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: Every Tuesday I am on our Facebook page taking your questions. Last week I got asked about everything from who might drop out in the Republican primary race to what`s on my summer reading list. If you have questions, I will try to answer them tomorrow. Head on over to starting at noon eastern and ask me anything. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: New whispers tonight about the possibility of a Joe Biden presidential run in 2016. Washington Post reporting that major Democratic fundraisers have been invited to meet with Vice President Joe Biden at his residents at the U.S. naval observatory after Labor Day. This, after the New York Times reported that last Thursday the Vice President, who was not known for aggressively courting donors, spoke to a Long Island Developer who raised more than 750,000 dollars for the Obama/Biden ticket in 2012. Then over the weekend, Wall Street Journal reported Biden is increasingly leaning toward entering the race if it is still possible he can knit together a competitive campaign at this late date. Reuters reported that Biden met with liberal leader Warren while mulling White House run, characterizing the meeting as further evidence of how seriously the vice president is considering a run for the party`s nomination. And today the president and the vice president met for their weekly private lunch. And that`s when, according to a tweet from CNN`s John Berman, a senior Dem says Obama gave his blessing to Biden to run at lunch if he chooses. The decision is his. Well, that was reportedly happening, the White House press secretary is being asked what Obama would do if Biden actually did decide to run. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president has indicated his view that the decision that he made, I guess seven years ago now, to add Joe Biden to the ticket as his running mate was the smartest decision he ever made in politics. And I think that should give you some sense of the president`s view of Vice President Biden`s aptitude for the top job. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will you say right now that the president will or will endorse somebody before the primary is over? EARNEST: I wouldn`t speculate at this point about whether or not the president would offer an endorsement. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you don`t rule out the possibility he could, say, endorse Joe Biden or endorse Hillary Clinton? EARNEST: I wouldn`t rule out an endorsement. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bernie Sanders, for instance. EARNEST: Or Bernie Sanders. I wouldn`t rule out the possibility of an endorsement of the Democratic primary. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: The question now is should Democrats be rooting for Joe Biden to get into the race? We`re going to talk about that next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CHUCK TODD, HOST, MEET THE PRESS: Let`s go to the other candidates potentially in this race. Would you like to see Vice President Biden jump in? JERRY BROWN, GOVERNOR OF CALIFORNIA: All I can say is if I were Hillary I would say don`t jump in, if I were Joe Biden I probably would give it very serious consideration. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Advice from one man who spent his life in politics to another man who spent his life in politics. Joining me now, Charlie Pierce, writer-at-large for Esquire and contributor at Grantland, Sam Stein senior politics editor and White House correspondent at the Huffington Post. Sam, you wrote a piece about 11 reasons that Biden should run. Before we even get to the show, like how seriously should I take this? It`s clearly coming from his people. I cannot tell if this is like some kind of group psychological reckoning that all of -- no, I`m serious -- that all us are enmeshed in or if this is real. What do you think? SAM STEIN, HUFFINGTON POST: Well, we`re reporting out tonight the fact that it is real, that he has put out a lot of feelers, talked to a couple fund-raisers who said that the talks are getting a lot more serious than it was a couple weeks ago. And it`s driven primarily by something that people really haven`t focused on. It`s not so much the Clinton email scandal -- although those concerns are there -- but it`s the sense among Biden and his allies that Clinton`s not a credible messenger on income inequality and economic inequality. And he senses that it`s partially because of the Foundation ties, partially because of the paid speeches, but he`s worried that when it gets to the general election and this is the major economic political issue of the debate, that she won`t be a credible messenger. And so that`s sort of what`s motivating. Now -- is that enough? I don`t know. And is there another candidate out there in the form of Bernie Sanders who`s been beating that drum? CHARLIE PIERCE, ESQUIRE: Yes. HAYES: Fair point. Charlie, what`s your reaction to that? PIERCE: Well, I think you`re right. And I think that anybody -- unless the Democrats dig up JP Morgan and run him this fall, any Democrat is going to look pretty good against any of these Republicans on the issue of income inequality. HAYES: right. And I also feel like -- I mean, Sam, not to -- I don`t mean to impugn the -- your sources here. STEIN: Go ahead and impugn them. It`s fine. HAYES: As you can tell, telegraphing them. I mean, also, Joe Biden wants to be president of the United States. I mean, that -- you know, the idea like, well, I was sitting around and the message -- it`s like -- you know, this guy has run twice before. He`s been in public life since 27, 28. He`s a vice president of what is shaping up to be a monumentally significant presidency, whatever side of it you`re on. That seems like the core issue here is does this guy want to do it? I think it looks like he wants to do it. STEIN: Yeah, I mean, and the objective here are intertwined, right? He looks at Clinton and he sees her as potentially a flawed messenger on the issue that he believes will be the deciding issue of the day. And that, of course, is income inequality. And he believes that that`s the pathway to the presidency. Now you`re right, he`s a -- like anyone in politics, he`s self- motivated. He wants to win. He believes he can get to the White House and he thinks that he`s a more credible messenger on that issue. The problem is all the other intangibles. Does he have the ability to raise enough money to do this? Everyone who -- a lot of serious consultants and the people who run campaigns in the states, they`re already signed up so it might actually be just too late in the game for this to happen. HAYES: Charles, you`ve covered politicians for a long time. I feel like this is a point in a politician`s career when they are very susceptible to making bad decisions, whether or not that`s true of Biden, when you`re basically facing down what would be essentially retirement against your will at this point. September to believe making bad decision, whether or not that`s true of Biden, when you`re basically facing down what would be essentially retirement against your will at this point. PIERCE: Yeah, I think he`s in an interesting spot. He has turned into the beloved uncle of the American political body. He`s the uncle with al the cool Christmas presents who knows all the dirty jokes. That`s a great thing to be. If he runs and loses -- and I think the we have to agree that the odds are that he would lose -- he just becomes another guy who ran for president three times and I would hate to see that at this point because of the incredible life he`s lived, the incredible almost Kennedyesque tinge of tragedy that surrounds his personal life and hiss ability to overcome that and become this beloved figure that he has become. The other thing I have that I`m going to now argue against myself, he really likes this stuff. I mean, the stuff we make, candidates go through and they have to go to Iowa and pet the pig and all this other stuff. He loves that stuff. He lives for that stuff. HAYES: He owns a pork bee inspired apron that he just dons at home in the naval observatory when he`s by himself. STEIN: He wears it under his suit obviously. HAYES: Well, but Charlie`s point there -- can we put up that tweet from our viewer, because it sort of captured I think something I`ve heard from a lot of people, "I love Joe Biden but please don`t run. You can`t win, sir. Please don`t make me vote against you." I -- Sam, I`ve heard a lot of that. And it gets to Charlie`s point about the kind of unique roll that he`s taken on, particularly in the Democratic Party. I`m not sure, you know, nationally there`s a more complicated feeling that all of a sudden if he gets in, he then becomes a candidate who is going to be in a nasty fight very quickly. STEIN: Well, someone could tell him about that, and her name is Hillary Clinton who had tremendous favorability ratings while at state and as soon as she entered the theater of politics naturally her image suffered. Now there is a school of thought that`s very prevalent in Democratic circles that demographics is in fact destiny and that you could put a corpse up there and so long as enough Hispanic and black voters came out to the polls they`d win. I think Biden will have a tougher time because he`s not a historical candidate like Hillary Clinton, but his camp would argue that he would make better inroads with white working class men. So, there`s two ways to game this out. I`m not sure he`s destined for a loss necessarily. HAYES: I would agree with that. And I think also that the argument would end up sort of turning on sort of him being the Obama -- the third term of Obama and that might work also. Charles Pierce and Sam Stein, thank you for joining us. STEIN: Thanks, Chris. HAYES: All right, that is All In for this evening. The Rachel Maddow show starts now. THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. END