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All In with Chris Hayes, Transcript 08/14/15

Guests: Robert Costa, Dave Weigel, Michelle Goldberg, Charles Pierce, JasonBailey, Kierna Mayo, Jennifer Gunter

CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST: Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes. And you are looking right now at live pictures of two big political events right now kicking off, what promises to be the biggest, busiest campaign weekend of the 2016 race so far. On the right, Hampton, New Hampshire, where Donald Trump is just wrapping up a big campaign rally speech and press Q&A. On the left, the Iowa Democratic Wing Ding dinner, where four presidential candidates are about to take stage. The front runner, Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders, who is nipping at her heels, even leading in a current poll in New Hampshire, though far behind in Iowa, followed by Martin O`Malley and Lincoln Chafee. We`re awaiting those remarks. We`ll bring you some of it live throughout this hour. Don`t go anywhere. Before Trump`s campaign event tonight in New Hampshire, where he holds a significant lead in the polls, the candidate talked to the press for the second time this week, sounding off on Jeb Bush and campaign finance. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Remember this: Bush and Hillary and all these people, they have a lot of money. They raised a lot of money from my friends. I used to be one of them. I contribute to everybody. And they`re always there for me. But that`s not good for the country. That`s not good as a system. But Jeb has raised $114 million, approximately. Everybody that puts money up for Jeb Bush, it`s like he`s a puppet. He`s totally controlled by these people. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: At the rally moments ago, he told supporters a story about the impressive infrastructure he once encountered on a trip to Qatar. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: I went into an airline terminal that was the most beautiful terminal I have ever seen, ever, the most magnificent. They had lounges, they had spas. They had spas before you get on the plane. You can get a massage. I`m not into that, though. I don`t like people touching me. It`s true. It`s true. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Tomorrow, Trump heads to Iowa, where a major rite of passage for presidential candidates is already underway in Des Moines, the Iowa state fair -- political center of gravity this weekend with candidates from both parties passing through to mingle with voters, eat fried food, enjoy some free media coverage. True to form, Trump is planning to make a big entrance, arriving by helicopter tomorrow afternoon. His campaign tells NBC News they`re optimistic he`ll be able to give free rides to kids at the fair, a proposal that was initially quashed by organizers. The campaign also made sure to note, quote, "he will be seeing the butter cow," widely held to be the fair`s star attraction. Trump will not be making an appearance at the soapbox, where candidates get to make their pitch directly to voters. It`s sponsored to the "Des Moines Register," with whom Trump has been feuding ever since they published an editorial calling him to, quote, "pull the plug" on his bloviating sideshow, even going so far to bar their reporters from campaign event. That`s Trump. Joining me now, Robert Costa and Dave Weigel, both national political reporters for "The Washington Post." All right. Dave, here`s what I think is fascinating, the further this goes on. I just tweeted that this campaign is taking shape to be the platform of Ross Perot in the tone of Rush Limbaugh. It`s got all of the kind of insult, comic, kind of angry, dismissive tone of right-wing talk radio. To the extent there`s any ideology, it`s sort of this all over the map, build up America, I want to do infrastructure, you know, we stayed in Iraq too long, we want to bring the troops home. You know, we should put on tariffs on Mexico. It`s completely outside of the kind of ideological boxes that the rest of the Republican primary is working in. DAVE WEIGEL, THE WASHINGTON POST: I think it is. And actually, before Trump got to Michigan this week and a little while after he left, I got there and hung around Flynt, Michigan, that has been famous by Michael Moore`s documentary about what happened to the auto industry there. I met a lot of voters, who did not go to see Trump, but when I mentioned Trump`s name, agreed with his protectionism. They wanted somebody, first of all, to say the things he`s been saying about putting tariffs on China to talking about the currency flow. I mean, that`s not something you were hearing that much about this week in politics. And they also believe that his leadership kills were attuned to the problems we`ve had. That nobody in office, who`s been bought off by lobbyists, and I heard that phrase a lot, bought off by lobbyists, would fight China, Mexico, the rest the way he did. And I heard people who said they liked Bill Clinton, they liked Ronald Reagan. They also like Donald Trump. HAYES: This is the kind of billionaire populist sale, which is part of the Ross Perot sale is, because I`m self-funding, no one owns me. And he keeps talks about campaigning finance, he`s hilariously on his terms about, they`re all puppets. This is him talking about this summer. And, Bob, I want you to respond to this, because you`ve got great reporting about what the campaign ground game looks like. Take it a listen to Trump talking about the summer of Trump. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: I was called by one of the biggest journalists in the world the other day. He said, "Mr. Trump, could I ask you a question?" "What?" "How does it feel? How does it feel?" I said, "How does what feel?" He said, "You have done something that nobody else has ever done. You`ve taken over television. You`ve taken over the airways. It`s the summer of Trump." You know, they`re calling it the summer of Trump. No. OK. And I said -- and this is a highly respected guy, an amazing guy. And I said, I haven`t done anything, because I haven`t won. I mean, if this all happens and I don`t win, it starts with winning the primaries, getting the nomination, and then going on and winning. I consider it a total waste of time. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: OK, Bob, a lot of people are watching this and thinking this is some kind of put-on and you`re seeing right now, we`ve got Trump speaking in New Hampshire, we`ve got that Wing Dings event in I believe that`s Clear Wayne, Iowa, where we`ll be seeing the Democrats candidates soon, Clear Lake, Iowa. Bob, you have some reporting on Trump`s actual campaign infrastructure, which I found pretty surprising. What did you learn in reporting about what actually is going on on the ground there in Iowa? ROBERT COSTA, THE WASHINGTON POST: Well, one lesson I`ve learn covered this campaign is, never assume anything. I got off the phone an hour ago with Donald Trump, had about a 20-minute interview with him. He said, in early September, he`s going to be rolling out an immigration policy paper. He`s talking to Senator Jeff Sessions about it, one of those arch conservative border hawks. Then he`s going to have a tax plan that focuses on inversion, making sure that corporations come back to the United States to pay taxes. So, he`s going to have policy coming out right before the second debate. And in Iowa, he has Rick Santorum`s guy, Chuck Launder, building this elaborate ground game, running this bus, a big blue Trump bus around the state, going Walmart parking lot by Walmart parking lot to pick up voters. HAYES: OK, wait, but is this elaborate? Is this a con? So he hired -- honestly, he hired the Santorum guy. Santorum won Iowa last time. But is there anything there? Is there a "there" there? Is there an actual campaign? I mean, you can`t win the caucus on, you know, speeches and interviews given from your hotel lobby. COSTA: That`s exactly right. You can`t just run a media campaign to win in Iowa. And Chuck Lauder`s argument is, in the same way that President Obama was able to bring in new voters in 2007 in the Iowa caucuses, Trump`s reaching out to voters who are almost apolitical. Those kind of Ross Perot style voters. A lot of -- the first question a lot of these people ask when they come to the Trump bus is, what is a caucus? They`re not even participating in previous cycles. HAYES: This is Trump from earlier. This is part of the shtick here too, which has also been the sort of marrying this -- I don`t even know what you would call it, the extent there`s an ideological vision there with the kind of insult comic shtick. This is him on the mayor of Boston, Marty Walsh. Take a listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REPORTER: On a lighter note, Boston Mayor Marty Walsh has challenged you to take the ice bucket challenge. Is that something you`ll do? TRUMP: Look, he`s a clown, Marty Walsh. I don`t even know who he is. This guy Marty Walsh, he spends all this time and effort and money on an Olympic bid and then goes out and is talking about an ice bucket challenge. Get a real mayor. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Dave, I love the fact he`s like, I don`t know who this guy is, and proceeds to show, of course, he knows who he is and exactly what he`s doing. WEIGEL: Also, Trump has done the ice bucket challenge. I know this because I watched the video in which for some reason Trump bottles of water are added to the ice bucket, even though that is water in a different form than ice. You know, actually keying off what Bob was just saying about Chuck Launder`s organization, when I saw Trump in Michigan, there was not much of an organization on the ground there. Not as early as it has in the past, but a fairly early primary state. Trump has been very reactive of the criticism he gets in the press. And I honestly wonder if the "Wall Street Journal" piece this week talking about the lack of ground game he has in some of these states is going to spur more of it, because that is -- he operates like any predator who`s being threatened. I would also add that Ross Perot, to continue to comparison, which I think is apt, he had one of the best ground games in history. He had people getting him on the ballot in 50 states. You don`t need to start hiring staff sometimes. You can have people inspired to work to you. And to the surprise of many, Trump is starting to have that. HAYES: I also think another area where this shtick is at a kind of right angle to Republican ideologies on campaign finance -- I mean, the thing that I find most fascinating about his routine so far is the donor class trader routine. I was a donor, I know how it works. You give these people money, they`re puppets for you. I`m the only one independent. This is him talking about campaign finance and the current Citizens United regime. Take a listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: I love the idea of campaign finance reform. And one of the things you should do is, everybody should be known. If somebody gives $1 million or $2 million or $5 million, it should be known. And I will tell you this nonsense with PACs, where they have millions of dollars raised, $100 million raised, and they don`t coordinate with the other people. I mean, Bush puts his best friend in there, they don`t talk. You`re not allowed to talk. Do you really believe that that doesn`t happen? (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Bob, A, he`s completely right. B, this critique, I think, is a critique that actually has some traction across the political spectrum. It`s the kind of thing where -- you know, if you talk to someone in a bar anywhere in the country, you talk about, you know, rich people buying up the system, that`s not a particularly like lefty idea. And number three, it is absolutely outside of the ideological mainstream of the Republican Party currently, which is very much committed to waging war on campaign finance reform. COSTA: Trump is not running an ideological campaign. I think that`s shocking a lot of people, because the Republican Party, for the past five years, in the Tea Party era, has become fervently ideological. And as you say, part of his ideological project to move the party to the right, to commit itself to certain principles, and that`s just not something Trump`s interested in. He`s running a non-ideological campaign that picks and chooses based on his personality, based on his career. And it`s really about someone who`s just going to make a deal. He constantly talks on the phone today about how he wants to bring Democrats and Republicans together just to get something done. To people out there who are frustrated with the press, it seems to be connecting, but it`s still early. HAYES: Dave, because this is not an ancillary concern to the Koch brothers and to the donor class that makes up the kind of center of the current conservative movement, this anonymous donations, getting rid of Citizens United, this is actually something they have fought a long war to achieve and they want to keep fighting. WEIGEL: Yes, they`ve got the rest of the conservative movement to argue that free speech equals infinite spending and Trump is challenging that. I mean, part of this almost reminds me that FDR being a traitor to his class. That has resonance to people, when someone like Larry Lessig for all the beauty of the Ted talk, makes the argument, it sounds a bit more remote, more academic. I would like to see if Trump keeps saying this, because he`s said for a while that Jeb Bush will owe favors to everyone who gives him money. If that connects, that is another thing that completely contradicts where a lot of the libertarian-leaning money that has been freed up since Citizens United, that contradicts everything they`ve been programming in the movement to say. HAYES: All right. Bob and Dave, I want you to hold on for a second because joining me now from Clear Lake, Iowa, is Kasie Hunt. That`s the other big political hot spot tonight. Kasie is MSNBC`s political correspondent. And, Kasie, it looks like Hillary has taken the stage there, the first of the candidates to go. What is the event there tonight? KASIE HUNT, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, Chris, this is the annual wing ding event that the Democratic Party throws a to the Surf Ballroom, which, of course, you may know for being the last venue Buddy Holly ever played before he was killed in that plane crash. And this is a regular famous stop for Democratic politicians along the way, and this is a rare opportunity for us to see Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders, Martin O`Malley and even Lincoln Chafee all together in the same room at the same time, talking to the same crowd, a chance to compare them all against each other. As we were coming in, you had noisy groups, competing groups of Hillary supporters and O`Malley supporters. The O`Malley supporters were particularly noisy, I will say, compared to my experience with him yesterday at the fair, where most people were trailing behind the few cameras and boom mics that are following him and asking, who is that guy? So, a little bit -- a little bit of a disconnect there. But I think it`s going to be interesting to see how this crowd reacts to Bernie Sanders versus Hillary Clinton. That`s really been the story that`s been going on, on the ground here in Iowa, is this idea that people are really looking for someone who`s an outsider. You`re seeing that in the polls on the Republican side and also on the Democratic side. We`re going to get a chance to see Bernie Sanders at the fair tomorrow. Obviously, Donald Trump is planning on touching down in that helicopter of his. And we`re hearing that he may actually be allowed to give children rides on the helicopter. We had initially heard that that was going to be off-limits. So, I think that what we`re going to see tomorrow is a spectacle beyond what, frankly, the Iowa state fair has ever seen before, despite the fact that it`s essentially hallowed ground and that many, many presidents have trod the fields out here, Chris. HAYES: All right. Kasie Hunt, let`s take a listen for a second to see what Hillary`s reception is like inside that Wing Dings dinner in Clear Lake, Iowa. Take a listen. HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: That pressure delivered a blow to Iran`s economy and gave us the leverage necessary to get to the negotiating table and begin the first preliminary talks. Now, thanks to President Obama, Secretary Kerry and Secretary Moniz, we have an agreement that blocks Iran`s pathways to a bomb and gives us new tools for verification and inspection. HAYES: Hillary Clinton touting the Iran deal very early in the speech before a largely friendly crowd at the Democratic event in Clear Lake, Iowa. Donald Trump still going with his rally in Hampton, New Hampshire. And, Dave, you were in Iowa. How do you think the state fair is going to receive the Donald? WEIGEL: I think warmly. When you bring up his name to people, at this point, still, the controversy is that the media has focused on are not the controversies that people who know Donald Trump have been aware of. What Kasie just said about Martin O`Malley, you can carry that sentiment pretty far. You would think that voters at this point might know that Martin O`Malley is running for president. Most of them don`t. In the same vein, people do not care very much about Donald Trump`s gaffes and they are impressed. People, especially in more blue-collar areas, are incredibly impressed when someone like Donald Trump takes the time to visit them. So, I`m going to be literally out of the country for this, and I think I will still be hearing about Trump at the state fair. HAYES: Robert Costa and Dave Weigel, thank you both for joining us. Don`t go anywhere. We`ll have much more coverage of the Wing Ding dinner, coming up. Plus, I will talk to the woman who exposed Dr. Ben Carson`s hypocrisy on Planned Parenthood later. And later, a special ALL IN movies edition with an in-depth look at the cultural phenomenon that is straight out of Compton. Those stories and more, ahead. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: Our live coverage of the Democratic dinner in Iowa continues with Hillary Clinton before attendees. But first, her successor at the State Department, John Kerry today, became the first U.S. secretary of state to visit Cuba in 70 years. A flag of the United States of America rose today at the ceremony to mark the opening of the American embassy in Cuba. The embassy had officially reopened last month, but today`s ceremony was notable in part because three retired marines who lowered the American flag 54 years ago when the embassy closed in 1961 participated in today`s event. Secretary Kerry and his Cuban counterpart vowed to expand cooperation between their two countries. Kerry later meeting with a group of dissidents, taking some pictures. It`s a testimony to the sheer scope of the Obama presidency`s historical significance that ending a half century of failed Cuba policy after so much resistance and when it seems so impossible for so long, that that policy accomplishment may not even rank in the ten topmost transformative things this administration has done. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: Actually, Carly was a little nasty to me. Be careful, Carly. Be careful. But I can`t say anything to her, because she`s a woman, and I don`t want to be accused of being tough on woman. I can`t do that, right? Can I do that? Women, am I allowed to fight back? Huh? Am I allowed? She`s been a little nasty to me. So, I promised that I wouldn`t say -- and I said to myself. I promised I wouldn`t say that she ran Hewlett-Packard into the ground. I said, I will not say it. That her stock value tanked. That she laid off tens of thousands of people. And she got viciously fired. I said, I will not say that. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: That`s Donald Trump just moments ago in Hampton, New Hampshire, talking about Carly Fiorina. Fact check, largely true, basically about her record at Hewlett-Packard. Joining me now, Michelle Goldberg from "The Nation", and from Iowa, Charles Pierce, who`s politics blogger for, in Iowa tonight, of course, in Clear Lake, Iowa, about a half hour away from the Des Moines state fair, there is the Wing Dings Dinner, where Hillary Clinton has been addressing the crowd. We`re going to hear also from Bernie Sanders, Martin O`Malley, and Lincoln Chafee. Michelle, I find the fight that`s happening between Trump supporters and the rest of the Republican Party about political correctness fascinating, because they are being devoured by a monster of their own creation. They have created a belief system whereby any attacks on anyone for saying offensive, loudish, disgusting things are, by definition, political correctness, and not legitimate. So, when they try to apply that, then they are sort of hoisted by their own petard. MICHELLE GOLDBERG, THE NATION: And I think even more than that, and Rick Perlstein has written about the extent to which so much of modern Republicanism is about deflecting guilt or, you know, he talked about Reagan being -- having this liturgy of absolution, where he`s saying, you know, all these people are trying to make you feel guilty or trying to make you -- HAYES: Right. GOLDBERG: And Trump is saying, you can get rid of that. He`s unleashed your political id. You know, every kind of -- every sort of like nativist impulse that you`ve been told to repress, every sort of sexist impulse that you`ve been told to repress -- HAYES: Embrace it! GOLDBERG: Yes, exactly. HAYES: Charlie, what do you make, as Hillary Clinton takes the stage tonight, as the front runner, she is -- we should put some context here, right? Again, we should put some context here, right? Nationally, she`s polling massively ahead. Bernie Sanders has been getting huge crowds, he`s raising a lot of grassroots money. He is ahead of her in the latest poll in New Hampshire. There`s significant movement for him. But in the broad context, if you had to bet money on who would be the next nominee at this point, there`s Hillary Clinton, what do you make of the Biden noise that we have heard in the last few weeks, and what that would do to the race? CHARLES PIERCE, ESQUIRE.COM: Well, first of all, may I just say, hello, baby! I`m a little carried away by the ambience here at the Surf Ballroom. I think what accounts for the -- what accounts for the buzz we`re getting is that it`s August. And people are bored. And it`s August and nobody`s returning phone calls, because everybody`s in the Hamptons. I don`t think Al Gore is going to run. I have no idea what Joe Biden is doing, as explained to me by whatever anonymous people are talking to whoever, his idea of being a one-term president sounds like the dumbest thing he`s ever done in his career, because if you`re a one-term president, you`re lame duck as soon as your hand is off the bible. So, you know, I think it`s easy to speculate. You know, Mrs. Clinton is bedeviled by these leaks about whatever the e-mails is supposed to be about. And right now, it`s a boring time in history and it`s worth talking about. That`s my take on it, anyway. HAYES: See, I think that`s probably true about the Gore speculation. But the Biden people, look, Josh Alcorn, who is Beau Biden`s staffer, was in here yesterday. I mean, that is real. Like, those leaks that are coming from the Biden people aren`t coming unauthorized. That`s from the Biden people. The Biden people are putting out leaks. GOLDBERG: Right, and some of them -- HAYES: Running up the flagpole saying this is what we are thinking of doing. GOLDBERG: And the fact that this is what his son asked him to do on his deathbed, that`s some emotional hardball, you know? So, yes, I agree with Charles and I don`t think it`s particularly serious -- HAYES: You don`t think it is? GOLDBERG: Well, I don`t -- I think -- HAYES: I don`t think it is, but I`m now coming to believe -- I mean, I don`t understand why they`re going -- GOLDBERG: Here`s what frightens me about it, the fact that they`re putting out feelers, suggest that there is a greater degree of unease and panic about Hillary Clinton`s candidacy than maybe we`ve been aware of, right? Why else would they do it unless they spotted an opening, which suggests that there is some -- that elites are thinking that we need a plan "B." HAYES: I don`t -- Charles -- PIERCE: And to be -- to be perfectly fair, though, if there`s one politician in America, who you could see jumping into a race late with no money and virtually no staff, just because it`s fun to be in politics, it`s Joe Biden. HAYES: That`s true. That is true. And I think this is also someone -- PIERCE: I mean, he really -- he really enjoys stuff like this tonight. HAYES: Yes, exactly! I think he -- I absolutely agree that Joe Biden is looking at the Wing Dings dinner, probably sitting, watching us right now -- hello, Mr. Vice President -- and thinking to himself, this is -- that looks fun! It looks fun to be out in Clear Lakes, Iowa. It looks fun to be talking to people. I think he genuinely loves doing that. He`s been doing it for four years. The guy has been a politician for the duration of his life, you know, for his adult life. He`s now contemplating the end of that in, you know, a year and a half. And I wouldn`t be surprised if he has people around him saying, hey, go for it. GOLDBERG: My understanding is that he likes that stuff, but that he hates raising money. And you know, and that he hates the sort of muckraking part of the process and he`s got to know that that`s what`s in front of him. HAYES: Charlie, the Clinton campaign put out a memo that I thought was pretty good and persuasive basically about, look, you know, it`s August, and people are trying to make mountains out of mole hills, as far as where the state of this race is. We have a plan, we`re sticking to it. I, so far, from a just sort of tactical standpoint, have been impressed with the campaign with the fact it really does seem to have a plan, it does seem to be quite well-run. Do you think -- what do you make of the sort of Sanders momentum that there is and we`ll probably be hearing a little bit from Bernie later in the evening? PIERCE: Yes, well, I think -- I think, obviously, there`s a great and powerful and not to be ignored progressive wing to the Democratic Party, for the first time in a very long time. And it`s represented not only by Bernie Sanders, but by Elizabeth Warren, by Sherrod Brown, by some people in the House. And I think -- you know, this is something to which some attention must be paid. Now, my problem with the Clinton campaign is the same problem I had with them in 2008, which is that it doesn`t corner very well. It doesn`t react to the unexpected very well. It`s turning it around is like trying to turn around that aircraft carrier. They`ve got all this staff and they seem to be a little bit better at it this time, but still, they seem to get it wrong footed an awful lot. HAYES: Let`s take a listen right now to secretary of state -- former secretary of state, Hillary Clinton. CLINTON: -- and it`s also economic growth strategy! (APPLAUSE) You know, this isn`t complicated. When you shortchange women, you shortchange families, and when you shortchange families, you shortchange America. And I know when I talk about this, some people think, there she goes again, with the women`s issues, like Mitch McConnell said recently, I`m playing the gender card. Well, if calling for equal pay and paid leave is playing the gender card, then deal me in! (CHEERS AND APPLAUSE) And let me add, if helping more working parents find quality, affordable child care is playing the gender card, then I`m ready to ante up. Let`s take this fight to them! If Republicans think they`re going to win this election by demeaning or dividing women, then they`re the ones not playing with a full deck. (CHEERS AND APPLAUSE) So we all know, we all know we`re going up against some pretty powerful forces that will say, do, and spend whatever it takes to stop me and stop you. We have to end the flood of secret, unaccountable money that is distorting our election, corrupting our political process, drowning out the voices -- HAYES: Hillary Clinton hitting a note right there, about unaccountable money, echoed earlier by Donald Trump. The two of them apparently agree on that. Also doing a riff about paid leave, sick leave, family leave for families and for women, talking about Mitch McConnell accusing her of playing the gender card. A very interesting snippet of an evolving stump speech from candidate Clinton, in which she is centering issues around family leave and paid leave and women`s leave in this campaign. Michelle Goldberg, Charlie Pierce, thank you both for joining me tonight. I really appreciate it. PIERCE: Thank you, Chris, and I apologize, I`m sweating like Nixon. HAYES: Still ahead, we`ll have more coverage of the Wing Ding Dinner. And later, a little fast check on Ben Carson`s stance on fetal issue research, coming up. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: Hillary Clinton continuing to address the attendees at the Wing Ding Dinner in Iowa. She`s been unveiling parts of her stump speech, just went through a riff defending herself from charges of non- transparency or wrongdoing on Benghazi or emails. We`re expecting Bernie Sanders to speak in just a little bit. Now Republican presidential candidates, one of the issues they have been focusing on, falling all over themselves to attack the women`s health organization, Planned Parenthood, following the release of a series of undercover videos that show Planned Parenthood employees discussing the organization`s role in providing fetal tissue for use in medical research. This has become an absolutely huge issue on the right, with some conservatives even threatening to shut down the government, the entire government, over Planned Parenthood`s federal funding. And one of the GOP`s leading presidential candidates, neurosurgeon Ben Carson, has harshly criticized Planned Parenthood and played down the importance of fetal tissue research, arguing that, quote, "there`s nothing that can`t be done without fetal tissue when it comes to medical research." And yet, as we learned two days ago, thanks to OB/GYN Jennifer Gunter, it turns out Carson himself has done medical research on fetal tissue. Carson and his colleagues published a paper detailing the research in 1992, which notes that they used tissue from, quote, two fetuses aborted at the 9th and 17th week of gestation. Carson appeared on Fox News last month to discuss those undercover Planned Parenthood videos. And the conversation turned to a fetus at 17 weeks, the same gestational age as the fetal tissue Carson did research on back in 1992. (BGIN VIDEO CLIP DR. BEN CARSON, 2016 REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Now that we have very good ultrasound techniques, even have the ability to endoscopically look at these little human beings... MEGYN KELLY, FOX NOEWS: This is a 17-weeker. CARSON: they`re developing. At 17 weeks, you know, you`ve got a nice little nose and little fingers and hands and the heart`s beating and it can respond to environmental stimulus. I mean, how can you believe that that`s just an irrelevant mass of cells? And that`s what they want you to believe, when, in fact, it is a human being. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Earlier today, I spoke to Dr. Jennifer Gunter, the OB/GYN who brought Carson`s fetal tissue research to light. I asked her about the usefulness of fetal tissue research. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DR. JENNIFER GUNTER, OB/GYN: Well, first of all, we wouldn`t know anything about congenital abnormalities, we wouldn`t know -- we would be very far behind just in medicine in general without it. So when we learn how to operate on children with birth defects, when we learn how to do things, we`re informed by a large history of people having studied this with fetal tissue. But then there`s also advances for science, for developing vaccines, for looking at specifically the neuroscientists who sent me the article, you know, talked about research with Parkinson`s and Alzheimer`s and ALS. And so it`s very important for that. And just this week in the "New England Journal of Medicine," the leading medical journal, there was an impassioned piece about how important this is. So, you know, I don`t do this kind of research, but I, like you and everybody else, you know, benefits from it. HAYES: Now, Dr. Carson has sort of been confronted with the fact that he has published research that used fetal tissue samples, and he`s given a variety of answers. I`m going to play you one and ask you to respond to it. GUNTER: OK. HAYES: This is him having a conversation with a reporter about this. Take a listen. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why did you change your decision about whether to use fetal tissue or not? CARSON: To not use the tissue that is in the tissue bank, regardless of where it comes from, would be foolish. Why would anybody not do that? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you wan this now if you`re saying that it`s not essential? CARSON: That`s a very different thing from killing babies, manipulating them, taking their tissues, selling them. That`s a very different thing. To try to equate those two things is absolutely ridiculous. HAYES: So, doctor, he seems to be saying that what he did was -- there was already tissue in a bank that came from, I don`t know where, that was independent of this process, and that`s definitely different than what has sort of attracted scrutiny vis-a-vis Planned Parenthood. Your response? GUNTER: Well, I think maybe he should toddle on down to his pathology lab and ask them where they got the specimens. I mean, seriously, the specimens come from somewhere. So they don`t just appear. And since, you know, this isn`t something that is done for profit. It`s possible those were very old specimens that had been in his pathology lab for 20 years, 30 years. I mean, people do, you know -- specimens are kept. And so it`s possible that, you know, when people are retrieving, they see what`s in a tissue bank, so they don`t need to get new. Obviously, that saves money with research and it`s always good to use what you have. But all of the new donations for fetal tissue are creating that same thing. They`re creating the same tissue banks that Dr. Carson`s research team went to. So, again, it`s a bit of a disconnect. HAYES: Just to be clear, fetal tissue for this purpose, this important medical purpose, does come from abortions? GUNTER: Well, I would think, for this purpose, that he worked on, it would have, because if you want to look at normal tissue, you can`t look at a miscarriage, because that`s not normal, right? So you have to look at normal. So, and that`s what his paper did. I`m not saying he was wrong to do it at all. And it sounds like they learned important information about colloid cysts, so that`s a good thing. But I think the disconnect is that, how can it be okay to get it from a tissue bank but how is it then getting there? HAYES: Right. Dr. Jen Gunter, thank you very much. Coming up, we`ll take you back to the Wing Ding Dinner in Iowa, where Bernie Sanders is speaking now. Stay tuned for that. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders now addressing the crowd at the Wing Ding dinner in Iowa. Let`s take a listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (I) VERMONT: And the average contribution is $31.20. The media often asks me why it is that we seem to be generating so much enthusiasm and why we have so much energy on this campaign. And my answer is that the American people are sick and tired with establishment politics, with establishment economics, and with the establishment media. They fully understand, and this runs across the political spectrum, that corporate greed is destroying our economy, that almost all of the new income and wealth being generated is going to the top 1 percent. They understand that American politics is now dominated by super PACs and big money interests. And they understand that the mainstream media is prepared to discuss everything, except the most important issues facing the American people. And now let me tell you something that no other candidate for president will tell you, and that is no matter who is elected to be president, that person will not be able to address the enormous problems facing the working families of our country. They will not be able to succeed, because the power of corporate America, the power of Wall Street, the power of campaign donors is so great that no president alone can stand up to them. That is the truth people may be uncomfortable about hearing it, but that is the reality. And that is why what this campaign is about is saying loudly and clearly, it is not just about electing Bernie Sanders for president, it is about creating a grassroots political movement in this country. HAYES: Bernie Sanders touching on some of the same themes we`ve heard from Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton tonight. You can sense already in this early stage of this campaign, as candidates are trying out their messages, there is genuine widespread transpartisan anger at the role big money is playing in this election. You`re hearing it and will hear it a lot more. All right, coming up, the movie that took over a decade to make is out this weekend. It comes at probably the most culturally relevant time. We`ll preview "Straight Outta Compton Next." (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: The modern era of the presidency marched onward today as President Barack Obama released his summer music play list on Spotify. President Obama`s on Martha`s Vineyard about midway through a the two- week vacation and his 40-song play list includes some oldies, otherwise known as standards, such as "The Best is Yet to Come," by Frank Sinatra. There is a seemingly deliberate wide range of choices, including "Ain`t too Proud to Beg" by The Temptations, "Tombstone Blues" by Bob Dylan, and "Until Beck: Sandra Wilson as well as some Van Morrison, Cold Play and Justin Timberlake. Now this comes hot on the heels of the release of the president`s summer reading list of six books, that includes "The Lowland," a book the president bought back in 2013, according to the "Washington Post," with no explanation for the administration as to why it`s on this year`s list. Has he not read it yet? But also on this year`s list, Ta-Naheisi Coates` remarkable landmark "Between the World and Me." Not on the list, perhaps surprisingly Donald Trump`s classic, "The Art of the Deal," one of the great books. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, 2016 REPUBLICAN PRESIDNETIAL CANDIDATE: Hold that book up, please. OK, one of the great books. That`s my second favorite book of all time. Do you know what my first is? The Bible. Nothing beats the bible. Nothing beats the bible. Not even "The Art of the Deal." Not even close. (END VIDEO CLIP) (COMMERCIAL BREAK) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got something for this beat. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, cut it. UNIDENTIFIED ALE: What`s it looking like, Dre? It`s hard? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yo. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hell, yeah. Let`s go start some (EXPLETIVE DELETED). That`s what we need. Hell yeah. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) the police coming straight from the underground. That young (EXPLETIVE DELETED) got it bad `cause I`m brown. And not the other colors no police state. They have the authority to kill a minority. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: The NWA biopic "Straight Outta Compton" open in theaters nationwide today. The movie, which took more than 10 years to make, arrives at an incredible cultural moment when the very political Black Lives Matter movement is forcing a national conversation about police killings and racial justice. The movie also takes us back to a time when another version of this conversation was being had by NWA. When F the Police was raising questions about how local law enforcement agencies did their work in communities of color. And all of this was taking place before hip hop dominated pop mainstream culture, before Dr. Dre and Ice Cube were household names. And now both men are very rich and very famous. While Cube is making movies with Channing Tatum and Jonah Hill, Dr. Dre has joined Apple as part of a $3 billion deal to acquire his company, Beats Electronics. Ice Cube and Dr. Dre are about as mainstream as it gets now. So much so that a Hollywood studio decided to make a movie about their group called N-words with Attitudes. We`ll talk about the movie and why -- it chose to shy away from, next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BOB DOLE, FRM. U.S. SENATOR: Movies, television, and advertising regularly push the limits of decency and they bombard our children with destructive messages of casual violence and even more casual sex. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When Senator Dole took on Time Warner, he went after a company that`s also a big producer of what is called gangsta rap, that`s the explicitly profane and violent music of black and white artists. It`s very controversial. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: 20 years ago when gangsta rap was a huge culture wedge issue dominating our politics and national conversation, today a movie about some of the founders of that genre out in movies. And joining me now to discuss it, Jason Bailey, film editor at Flavorwire and author of the forthcoming book "Richard Pryor: American Id." And Kierna Mayo, editor-in-chief at Ebony magazine whose cover this month reads America Loves Black Culture. Isn`t that the truth. Kierna, this movie now in 2015, why now and did they luck out with the timing? KIERNA MAYO, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF EBONY: They lucked out with the timing. However, in black America, this was always timely. It was timely in 1991 when NWA was being covered by "The Source" magazine which was where I was employed as a 21-year-old and it is timely today. Unfortunately, because people are being killed... HAYES: You mean, you mean police -- police violence. MAYO: Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. HAYES: But there is a national moment right now. I mean, it`s remarkable to watch this national moment, and then remember that the big song that put them on notice was F the Police, Ice T -- Cop Killer around the same time. That was like every -- everything was about that. That was dominating American politics 20 years ago. MAYO: It was dominating American politics, entirely. But interestingly for you to say that it`s topical now. I guess I just reject that inherently, because it`s always topical in black America, it`s just so happens that there are cameras now and now you guys can be in on the conversation. HAYES: OK, but there`s also the fact that, I don`t think you could have made this movie, I don`t think Hollywood would have made this movie 20 years ago or even 10 years ago. Part of that is about the evolution of the age cohort. The fact that this music is now kind of dad music and mom music, right? People in their 30s are like, I remember when I was listening to F the Police. And also the fact that these people, Cube and Dre particularly, these are mainstream, multimillion dollar American icons. JASON BAILEY, FLAVORWIRE: Sure. You know, Dre is an entrepreneur now, one of -- you know, he`s one of the richest men in the music industry. Cube is producing, you know, family comedies. And so it`s interesting to sort of see that juxtaposition of, you know, the angry, anti- authoritarian young men in the film with the, you know, businessmen who, by the way, produced this film and were very involved in its messaging and... MAYO: And the final narrative. HAYES: And Dre, Dre obviously has his new album out, that`s sort of tied to the release of it. There has been controversy on a variety of fronts about the film, including one thing left out of the film, which is this sort of awful, horrific incident involving a female journalist. MAYO: Right. Dee Barnes, she was a VJ. Remember VJs? She was a really lovely person who everyone really was interested in and thought was an important person. She actually was beat down by Dre and it was violent and it was a huge conversation in hip hop. And we all talked about it. HAYES: Because she had Cube on, Cube in an interview, Cube said some things that they did not take well to, the remaining members in the band. They found her at a party, right? MAYO: right. This was at, you know, my memory, but, yes, it was at a party. Long story short, there was an altercation, it was violent, she was harmed, it was at the hands of Dre. HAYES: And that was not in the film? MAYO: And that is absolutely not in the film, and it was clearly a creative choice that was made by the producers and it was unfortunate, because it also was a part of their narrative arc that actually could have made the film better. HAYES: Right. And that`s part of the difficulty, one of the interesting trade-offs in making this film is like being authentic about this, but this being a big film that you want to get millions of people across every flock of life in America to come to see. How did they pull it off in terms of the film itself? BAILEY: In terms of -- I mean, I think the film works. I think, you know, there are... HAYES: It does work. MAYO: It does work, yes. HAYES: There are troubling exclusions. There are conversations that we had about the music that now we have about the movie, in terms of the degree to which it cheers misogyny. There are elements that are problematic, but overall, it really beautifully captures sort of that cultural moment that they came from. HAYES: So, it pulls it off. It gets you back in there. BAILEY: Absolutely. Yeah, in a really indelible way like you understand where they were coming from and you also understand what they created out of that moment. MAYO: And that`s my point, right, I think it`s really unfortunate that that was an omission , because not only could that have brought light to what actually happened, but it was part of the trajectory and it was rich. HAYES: I`ve got to say, when I first saw this was dropping, I was really excited to see this movie. MAYO: You have to see it. HAYES: Priority of it. Jason Bailey and Kierna Mayo, thank you both. I appreciate it. That is All In for this evening. THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. END