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All In with Chris Hayes, Transcript 07/07/15

Guests: Loretta Weinberg, Hunter Walker, P.J. Masten, Barbara Bowman, DavidK. Johnson

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voice-over): Tonight on ALL IN -- GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: Sit down and shut up! HAYES: Chris Christie threatened with a bill that would make any New Jersey governor quit if they run for president. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, you will be the governor of New Jersey at the end of this? CHRISTIE: That`s my plan. Yes. HAYES: A top lawmaker pushing the plan joins me tonight. And Donald Trump loses the support of the PGA but gains support elsewhere. RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER NYC MAYOR: Everybody has a right to their opinion. That`s what a primary is about. HAYES: Plus, Rand Paul equates slavery and taxes and the fallout from Bill Cosby`s apparent admission that he gave a woman Quaaludes and had sex with her. ALL IN starts right now. (END VIDEOTAPE) HAYES: Good evening, from New York. I`m Chris Hayes. Top New Jersey Democrats want to help Chris Christie focus on running for president. They want to do it by forcing him to quit the post he has effectively been treating as a part time job -- governor of New Jersey. State Senators Loretta Weinberg and Ray Lesniak want to introduce a bill later this morning to force Christie and any future New Jersey governor to step down when they run for president. They have a pretty good case. Christie has reportedly spent more than half of this year outside of his home state. He`s barely stepped foot in New Jersey since announcing his presidential run last Tuesday, spending most of last week in New Hampshire. And this week, aides say he is attending the annual Allen and Company conference in Idaho known informally as summer camp for billionaires. Now, getting the bill passed won`t be easy since Christie will be sure to veto and Democrats would need to peel off Republican votes to override his veto, a task they have yet to accomplish during Christie`s five years as governor. But there is frustration over Christie`s disappearing act in New Jersey, and not just among elected officials. A poll last week found that 76 percent of New Jersey voters believe Christie is more concerned with his political future than governing the state. And 57 percent believed he should resign now that he`s campaigning for president. And then there`s the fact that some of Christie`s more recent policy positions seem to be more closely to the median Iowa caucus voter than the median New Jersey resident. Last year, under pressure from Iowa pork producers, Christie vetoed bipartisan and widely supportive legislation that would have banned the practice of confining pregnant pigs in crates. Just one of the number seemingly driven by his national aspirations, including Christie`s decision to pull his state out of Common Core. Christie`s team dismissed the bill to force him to resign as silly nonsense and stress that Christie is never disconnected from doing his job as governor, an argument Christie made last month. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CHRISTIE: Maybe years ago, you know, before cell phones and smartphones and Skype and all of this stuff, maybe you could really be disconnected, but you can`t now. When I go in the room, you all go with me. So, it`s not like New Jersey ever leaves me. I`m in Iowa, or I`m in New Hampshire, South Carolina and you guys are asking me about something that is happening here. It`s not like I can ever leave. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Joining me now, the architect of the planned bill to force Christie to step down, New Jersey Senate majority leader, Senator Loretta Weinberg. Your response to the governor calling this silly nonsense? STATE SEN. LORETTA WEINBERG (D), NEW JERSEY: Well, I think it is worth a discussion for a whole variety of reasons. We have the strongest chief executive, the strongest office of governor of I believe any state in the United States under our constitution. You cannot govern New Jersey by cell phone. We`ve got major problems here. We are talking about underfunded pension, depleted transportation trust fund, the fact we have a higher unemployment rate than any other state in our region. Big, big problems. We need a governor here to be negotiating face to face across the table. Not by cell phone. HAYES: OK. A cynic would say, you didn`t like the governor before, you don`t like him now. He`s running for president so you are trying to hamper his ability to run for president. I mean, what`s your response? WEINBERG: No, I`m trying to make it easier to run for president. He doesn`t have to worry about New Jersey anymore. Resign and run for president. You touched on something that`s equally important to the absences to the major issues that we have here, and that`s how Christie is appealing to the very ultra conservative primary voter in the Republican primary. That`s not the average resident in New Jersey. We see it all the time. You talked about the issue about pregnant pigs. I`d like to talk about the issue of access for women for reproductive health that he has zeroed out of the budget which he then goes to one of the states where he is campaigning and says, see, that proves I`m a pro--life governor. HAYES: You feel he is essentially using New Jersey as, you know, my famous phrase, laboratory democracy, kind of laboratory of presidential ambitions in what he is actually doing as governor? WEINBERG: Absolutely. What he is doing as governor is not taking care of the issues before the residents of New Jersey. But appealing to the primary voters in New Hampshire and Iowa and Idaho and every other place he`s -- HAYES: I mean, what do you say to people who say, look, this happens all the time? The president of the United States has one of the most difficult jobs in the entire world, the most powerful person arguably in the entire world. You know, when he runs for re-election he`s got to do both, right? Barack Obama is out on the campaign trail, he`s also been the president of the United States. Governor George W. Bush ran in 2000 as a sitting governor. This is something that happens and people figure out a way to manage. WEINBERG: Well, we`re not talking about running for reelection here. We are talking about running for election. There are five states that are a resign to run law. It is not new territory. HAYES: That`s a really good point. WEINBERG: Arizona, Florida, Hawaii -- two others, couple other states that I don`t recall right now. All of which have different forms of a resign to run. We are talking about the chief executive of our state, the major problems that we have -- plus the fact, of course, the taxpayers are paying for his executive protection, which he should have. HAYES: Of course. WEINBERG: But I don`t want to pay for them in Idaho. HAYES: Yes, I mean, I keep thinking about, obviously Sandy was this real iconic moment that Christie governorship. There`s a lot of praise in the beginning period, there`s a lot of criticism of how the state has dealt with the aftermath of it, but I think amidst all of this, God forbid some kind of natural disaster were to happen in New Jersey, some emergency that required the kind of immediate sustained hands on chief executive, you know? WEINBERG: He`ll Skype. He just told us he has a cell phone and Skype. You know, it`s like saying you can raise your family by being far away and oversee what is going on in your family for cell phone, maybe a couple of days or week but not beyond that. HAYES: Yes, part of the issue here strikes me also is one, how long the time horizon is, how much term he has left and how much time he is going to have to spend outside of the state. His people said we are going to live in New Hampshire. They have to for at least the next six months. WEINBERG: Well, he`s already lived there last week with. It`s not like we have just minor issues to deal with here. How can -- you`ve got to negotiate face to face with our legislative leadership, with the -- with our labor representatives on the whole issue of the under-funded pension. You can`t do that part time by phoning in. HAYES: You could text someone sit down and shut up. It`s less effective. Senator Loretta Weinberg, thank you very much. All right. There is something amazing going on right now involving Wisconsin Scott Walker and other sitting governor running for president, with his eye on the GOP voters, has sought to position himself to the far right on immigration, including renouncing his own support previously for path to citizenship. Twice now in just the past few months, news stories reported that Walker is saying things in private that are odd but the immigration stance he claims to espouse in public. Last week, a conservative scholar named Stephen Moore told "The New York Times" that Walker had assured him over the phone that despite his rhetoric, he is, quote, "not going nativist, I`m pro-immigration". But then, yesterday, Moore told "The Times" he had misspoken and in fact the phone call never took place. This reportedly due to some conversations with some Walker aides. No call, never happened. Meanwhile, in March, "The Wall Street Journal" reported that during a private dinner New Hampshire Republicans, Walker said he does actually supports a path to citizenship, despite his public comments. Even though Walker`s comments were confirmed by three people present at the dinner, the Walker campaign strongly disputed the account. Joining me now, MSNBC contributor Sam Seder, host of "The Majority Report." This is the ultimate (INUDIBLE) thing to do. You have this problem you`re Republican, and there are different places they encounter. Donor class has one set of views. Your base is another. How do you do both? This seems a novel approach, which is you both tell them both what they want to hear. SAM SEDER, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Well, look, this is not that unique. I mean, we remember the story of candidate Barack Obama talking about renegotiating NAFTA and then Goolsbee heading to Canada to say, don`t take it too seriously. HAYES: Yes, that`s true. Good point. SEDER: With that said, there`s nothing as radioactive in the Republican Party than the issue of immigration. HAYES: People really need to understand this. I think they don`t. It is like why is this happening with Trump and all of this stuff, why this issue? You have to understand how viscerally -- SEDER: That happened to George Bush, too, in 2005, he had a big problem with this because they were trying to push immigration reform and there was backlash that went unnoticed in the mainstream press towards George Bush. But, look, here`s the problem fundamentally the Republicans have and it`s best illustrated by that famous moment that Michele Bachmann had a dual production of her response to Barack Obama`s, President Obama`s State of the Union Address a couple of years back, where she is talking in to one camera and there`s another camera going to the rest of America, because one was a simultaneous for the Tea Party and one for the rest of the country. HAYES: That`s right. SEDER: You can not speak to the base of the Republican Party and not look insane to the rest of the country and vice-versa. This is the problem that Walker`s running in to. They are all going to run into on some level. He`s trying to have it both ways, because he wants to be both the establishment candidate, he wants to prove his bona fides. Remember, in 2006, he came out and endorsed as county supervisor the McCain-Kennedy immigration reform. (CROSSTALK) HAYES: Absolutely. That`s absolutely betrayal. SEDER: That`s heresy. HAYES: Yes. Now, one of the flip side of this to me that I find frustrating is you hear, oh, big business supports immigration reform. And they do and they spend some money around it and they belong some of coalitions that support it. But you don`t see them leverage the weight in favor of it. They care in some sort of general sense. But we saw how they went to batter for, say, TPP. Even like EXIM bank. There are issues where they will bring the hammer down. This is not one they do. They will tolerate a lot of double speak. SEDER: Chamber of Commerce and Tom Tillis, for instance. HAYES: Great example. SEDER: I think the bottom line is, is that the establishment, as much as they want immigration reform, realized like this is a problem. HAYES: It`s make or break. Right. SEDER: I mean, that -- more than almost any other issue, they are afraid to go ahead of this, because they have seen the power of nativism in Republican Party. And so far, nobody`s cracked the code. I mean, they`re trying. You can see the Republican candidates two weeks later try and distance themselves from Donald Trump. HAYES: This is such an important point. It`s true. No one cracked the code. People tried. George W. Bush tried to crack the code, McCain- Kennedy in the second term. It was Waterloo for him, essentially for his essentially for his presidency. That was the end. He couldn`t get his party to support it. Huge uprising. You saw McCain himself couldn`t crack the code, he had to go back and renounce his own support for the bill in 2008. In 2012, Perry tries to get up there and say, let`s be a little a compassionate. Those are people, they are not monsters -- absolutely destroyed. Mitt Romney basically has to take the hard right line in 2012. SEDER: Yes. HAYES: Rubio ties to step on the line -- SEDER: Exactly. HAYES: We have seen casualty after political casualty on precisely this issue. SEDER: Yes, it`s a real problem for him. And the irony is that the patron saint Ronald Reagan actually was a huge -- amnesty for I think 3 million or 4 million people. HAYES: They actually, yes. SEDER: They actually did. So, you know, I don`t think they can work around this. The interesting thing is to see the Republican candidates talk about the tone that Donald Trump is taking. But again, on substance there is no daylight there. There really isn`t. HAYES: My other big question is obviously the 47 percent moment with Mitt Romney, iconic moment where, the double talk, things he said to voters, things he said to voters gets caught on tape. Are we going to have more moments like that? Are we going to have more moments with donors leaking the more conversations with these donors as politicians are in a position to speak to two cameras all the time is this that`s a fascinating kind of theme and subtext in the campaign. How much of it comes out, what`s said behind closed doors. Sam Seder, always a pleasure. SEDER: Thank you. HAYES: Up next, a call to remove Donald Trump in the debate stage, even as some of his fellow conservatives step up in his defense. Plus, two of Bill Cosby`s accusers join me after news his apparent admission that he bought drugs to give women for sex. Presidential candidate Rand Paul`s taxation metaphor of choice -- slavery. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: I`m for paying some taxes. If we tax you at 100 percent, then you got zero percent liberty. We tax you at 50 percent, you are half slave, half free. (END VIDEO CLIP) (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: Late breaking word of a new contender for president of the United States. As former Virginia Governor Jim Gilmore announced his forthcoming announcement sometime in the first week of August. Now, we would be updating our fantasy draft except Jim Gilmore didn`t even make our draft. We only had 25 squares on the big draft board. We had to draw the line somewhere. And it should be noted, of 25 people who made the draft cut back in January, a whopping 18 are now officially running for president. Scott Walker and John Kasich are planning to announce their candidacy soon. We`re now closing in on two dozen official candidates for president, but there`s just one is managing to suck up the oxygen. The latest from Mr. Donald J. Trump when we return. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: As Donald Trump refuses to back away from his inflammatory comments about Mexican immigrants, his corporate partners continue to abandon him. The PGA announced today it will no longer hold its annual grand slam tournament at Trump`s golf course outside Los Angeles, this October -- an event that was part of a multiyear partnership between the PGA and the Trump Organization. No word on whether that long-term deal may be affected. PGA announcement brings the number of businesses to cut ties with Trump to at least nine including NASCAR and ESPN, which cancels smaller events. Nevertheless, he still has he is defenders in the political realm. After 2016 rival Ted Cruz said he saluted Trump for raising the issue of illegal immigration, former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani chimed in yesterday with the defense of his, quote, "good friend". (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GIULIANIA: I think he hit on the right point. I would have said it differently. And I certainly think it doesn`t reflect on Donald Trump as a man who is a very charitable and good man. I`m sure he really had a chance to say it, he`d reverse it. Most of the people who come if are good people. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Rudy Giuliani made the comments at Trump`s new golf course in the Bronx, not long before Trump`s presidential campaign released a lengthy statement yesterday once again defending, not reversing, his initial comments about Mexican immigrants, claiming the Mexican government is forcing their most unwanted people into the United States and tremendous infectious disease is pouring across the border. I`m joined now by Hunter Walker, senior politics correspondent for "Business Insider", who got the chance to interview Donald Trump yesterday. Hunter, how are you? HUNTER WALKER, BUSINESS INSIDER: Not bad. How are you? HAYES: So, Trump does not seem to be -- I mean, he has tethered himself to this position that some unspecified percentage of Mexican immigrants, the majority perhaps are rapists, or carrying disease, or criminals, are, quote, "their worst". And the other idea that the Mexican government is, like, calling people into a room saying you guys go north. He seems to be committed to the position. WALKER: Well, in both the epic three-page statement and his conversation with me yesterday, I would say Donald Trump went beyond doubling down. This was quadrupling down. Not only was he was saying some of these Mexican immigrants who come in are criminals and drug runners and rapists, but he really was focused on the idea that the Mexican government is, as he said to me, pushing the bad ones in. And there is some type of deliberate effort by the Mexican government to send the criminal element here to the States. Though, he did make it clear that some of the immigrants are, as he said, quote/unquote, "fabulous". HAYES: Some of those immigrants apparently are also working on building the new Trump hotel in Washington, D.C. This was inevitable headline, "At Trump hotel site, immigrant workers wary". It goes to describe some undocumented workers who may be working for the Trump hotel itself. I think part of what folks need to understand how central the theme is, particularly in the conservative media, of immigrants bringing crime, essentially of being bad actors, of being sort of malevolent force. I mean, we have a horrible story out of San Francisco where a man is alleged to have murdered a woman, was deported several times, was deported by ICE, sort of escape deportation, that story is the kind of story that is an absolute mainstay of conservative, and if you just consume that, you get a sense that these people are disproportionately thugs and criminals. WALKER: Yes, and I think that`s why it is not necessarily so easy to dismiss Donald Trump. HAYES: Exactly, right. WALKER: Because, you know, CNN did a poll last week. You see him in second place. You also specifically see voters saying he`s the candidate they trust behind Jeb Bush on immigration. What we are seeing there -- HAYES: Really? WALKER: Yes. Donald Trump is the id of the Republican Party. I mean, you were talking about Scott Walker and others trying to speak to the base and also to speak to the general public. Donald Trump is going straight to the base. He`s the unfiltered conservativism, main line to the vein. And it`s resonating with some people. HAYES: Yes, this line struck me today, you know, talking about infectious diseases, this is also a mainstay. I mean, I remember when we covered the child migrant crisis at the border, this was something that people all over, conservative media, mainstream, you know, elected Republican figurers were saying. These people are bringing with them disease. This is not a fringe view. WALKER: Right. And the same polls that are showing Trump in second place, Trump knocking others off the debate stage show that illegal immigration is right behind the economy and health care as one of the issues that most concerns Republican voters. So, he`s resonating with his base. That`s for sure. HAYES: Now, there is a fascinating sort of sub-story happening here. I have been of the belief that the establishment Republican Party isn`t thrilled about Trump`s entrance into the race. This is "AP" reporting that GOP donors against Trump. One GOP donor wants to block Donald Trump from the debate stage. This is apparently is a little bit of an attempt at a sort of coordinated pooch to keep him out of the debate stage, worried about Republican on Republican violence, top party donors are taking action, with one firing off a letter, calling for more civility, another seeking to block businessman Donald Trump from the debate stage altogether. I can`t think of a better story for Donald Trump than this. WALKER: Absolutely. It fits right with his campaign narrative, which is that he claims to be worth $9 billion and said he won`t be beholden to donors and he actually isn`t. So, if there is an organized effort, that does look good for him. HAYES: In your interview, did you get a sense there is a breaking point at which this begin to actually hurt his personal bottom line enough? It is costing him money. At a certain point, it may end up costing him lots and lots of money. Do you think there is a breaking point? WALKER: He said it hurt him a little bit. He specifically said it`s harder to run for president than he realized. But he did say to me literally my bottom line is very large. And a lot of people are questioning this line -- HAYES: Huge even. WALKER: Yes, yes. Donald Trump does nothing small. HAYES: I should note that in his statement in response to ESPN and NASCAR, he noted he had already taken deposits from both organizations, so now he`s going to have the deposit and also be able to charge for renting out the facilities to other people. So, he actually made off well. Thank you, Hunter Walker. Tomorrow, former Mexican President Felipe Calderon will join me to weigh in on Donald Trump`s comments about the Mexican government and immigrants to this country. You do not want to miss that. Up next, who Senator Rand Paul manages to invoke one of the worst periods in American history while talking about taxes. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: Conservatives have a long ignoble tradition of comparing whatever government program they don`t like at the moment to arguably the worst thing we`ve ever done as a country. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know, Obamacare is really, I think, the worst thing that`s happened in this nation since slavery. ALLEN WEST (R), FORMER U.S. CONGRESSMAN: Since June of 2009 or so, we`re seeing 2.4 million private sectors created but we have had 3.1 million people go on Social Security disability. So, once again, we are creating the sense of economic dependence which, to me, is a form of modern 21st century slavery. PAUL: With regard to the idea of whether or not you have a right to health care, you have to realize what that implies. It is not an abstraction. I`m a physician. That means you have to right to come to my house and conscript me. It means you believe in slavery. Basically, once you imply a belief in a right to someone`s services, you are basically saying you believe in slavery. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: That last clip was from then-freshman Senator Rand Paul in 2011, comparing the president`s health care law to slavery or at least the general principle of believing in a right to health care to slavery. He was at it again last week in Iowa, this time with taxes. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) PAUL: You can have some government. We all need government. Thomas Payne said government is a necessary evil. What did he mean by that? You have to give up some of your liberty to have government. That means you have to pay some taxes. I`m not against that. I`m for some government. I`m for paying some taxes. But if we tax you at 100 percent, then you got zero percent liberty. If we tax you at 50 percent you are half slave, half free. I frankly would like to see you a little freer and a little more money remaining in your communities to create jobs. It`s a debate we need to have. (END VIDEO CLIP)) HAYES: Joining me now, David K. Johnson, Pulitzer prize-winning journalist and distinguished visiting lecturer at Syracuse Law. The person I always turn to when I have questioned about taxes and whether my taxation rate means that I`m half slave, half tree. So, there is a long, long tradition, and I think it`s sort of important for folk to understand that Rand Paul is really channeling his father who himself was channeling a hundred years of rhetoric about particularly the income tax that has been part of the bloodstream of the conservative movement for a long time. DAVID K. JOHNSON, JOURNALIST: Well, Chris, the fifth circuit court of appeals, that`s the court for Louisiana, Texas and Mississippi actually addressed this issue 60 years ago and said the claim that the income tax is a form of slavery and involuntary servitude is frivolous. There are few things a judge can say about a case that`s stronger than it`s frivolous meaning you -- this is nonsense -- you know, go take you your drunken conversation back to the bar where it belongs. HAYES: You know, there is also this idea that, you know, taxation is such an unbelievable burden on personal liberty, which is what he`s saying there, right. You are half slave, half free. But then to turn around and be like, well, we want a 15 percent flat tax or whatever so you are 15 percent slave. I mean, there`s -- it take as certain about of cognitive disassociation to think this actually tyranny and then talk about how to kind of marginally tinkering with the tyranny policy. JOHNSON: Well, yes. And Chris, let`s keep in mind we are free because of taxes. Whe Civil War was won by the north because it had the taxing capacity and borrowing capacity to defeat the traitors in the south. We won World War II because of taxes. Taxes are fundamental to our freedom. It`s the very first power we grant congress in our constitution. So, when you get these arguments that this takes away your freedom it`s like, really, have you not thought this through carefully? It what makes you free. And by the way, Chris. Do you know how many people in this country pay 30 percent or more of their income in federal income taxes, 97,000 households in this whole country, 97,000. And their average rate is 33 percent, and their average income is $2.7 million. I`m sorry. On $2.7 million, if you can`t afford to give 33 percent of your taxes to the government so that we can be free, we can have an FBI, we can have public health, we can have a military, we can have courts to adjudicate disputes then you apparently think money grows on trees in the backyard. HAYES: Freedom isn`t free, as they say. JOHNSON: Yes. HAYES: Now here -- 97,000 households is interesting, because one things you hear a lot -- and it tells you about the sort of composition of the donor class, particularly on the Republican side, but it`s true also on the Democratic side in terms of who are the folks giving the money are -- tend to be those 97,000 households. They are massively over represented. It probably makes up nearly 100 percent of the folks that are significant donors. And you hear sometimes this idea that 50 percent marginal rate is some kind of tipping point, right, that like once we creep up to 50 percent or near 50 percent once you add in all taxes you cross some sort of threshold, that -- and there`s just there`s no real empirical evidence that that`s the case. JOHNSON: There is exactly zero evidence that supports that. We had our greatest economic growth when we had higher tax rates. And there is a reason that that happens, Chris. When you have these very low tax rates for very wealthy people then their surplus income, what they don`t need to live on, that they can build their wealth with, grows and grows, not like a snowball but like an avalanche. And so instead of having money flowing through the economy where everybody is working, they`re buying goods and services, they`re able to have everyone be better off because we are all buying goods and services, this money concentrates in a few hands. And they can`t spend it. They can`t adequately invest it. And it`s damaging to the economy. HAYES: Yeah, if you spend time any time -- I mean, and I follow reporters who report on Silicon Valley. I have friends in startups. The sort of craziness of that world right now in which you have such a glut of investable capital chasing every new idea that comes, because there is just not enough to soak it up. And people talk -- people joke about this all the time, that is in many senses it`s partly due to our tax code. David K. Johnson, thank you very much. Still to come, more shockwaves from the newly released Bill Cosby deposition, two of his accusers will be here to talk about what happens now, and a potentially historic nuclear deal with Iran is delayed for a second time a new deadline, perhaps the final deadline, is now fast approaching. We will bring you the latest next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: The second time in a week international negotiators have blown through the deadline for what could be a historic deal to curb Iran`s nuclear program. After the parties failed to reach a final deal by June 30, the original deadline, set as part of a framework agreement earlier this year, they the year they extended talks through today, but now it`s clear that some major roadblocks still remain. Secretary of State John Kerry and his team will stay at the negotiations in Vienna at least until Friday to try and get the job done. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: As Secretary Kerry himself said back on Sunday, we have never been closer to reaching a final agreement than we are now. But there continue to be some significant differences that remain. And this is a view -- this is a view not just of the United States but this is the view of all of our P5+1 partners as well. So, that`s an indication that these talks, at least for now, are worth continuing. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Joining me now, Trita Parsi, president of the National Iranian American Council, who just returned from Vienna on Sunday. Trita, I want to lay out an argument that critics of contours of this deal make, that strikes me is it has some merit, which is basically the inertial force from the administration right now is so strong to get a deal, that they have tried to hard to get a deal, that they would view not getting a deal as failure and that essentially hands leverage to the Iranians, because the Iranians know that at this point John Kerry and the White House have walked so far on this path that they can`t just say no and walk away from the table. What do you think of that? TRITA PARSI, NATIONAL IRANIAN AMERICAN COUNCIL: Well, you have to remember, the Iranians suffer from the exact same issue. They have been at the same negotiating table for exactly the same amount of time. If they walk away or don`t get the deal it`s also a failure for them. The reason why the chances of a deal actually is still pretty good in spite of these delays is because of the fact that both sides really do need it. It`s not so that the United States needs it more than the Iranians or vice versa, both sides really need it. HAYES: Why though? I mean, what is driving -- let`s flip it around then. Why have the Iranians stayed at the negotiating table as long as they have? PARSI: Because from their perspective this is an important issue. If this issue hadn`t been resolved they looked at the prospects of actually having a military confrontation with the United States. Both the U.S. and Iran were on an escalatory path because they were both pursuing coercive measures and pressure diplomacy. And they knew at some point around 2012, early 2013, that the most likely outcome of them staying on that path would be a military confrontation. That would serve no one. And both of them would walk away from that a loser. And as a result, both sides actually do have a common interest in getting this resolved. And both sides have also been wise enough to realize that they need to soften their position in order to get a deal. You do not get a deal, you don`t get anything out of this unless you are you are willing to give something at the same time. HAYES: OK, well then this brings us to the brass tacks here, right. If both sides have it in their interest to get a deal, why have we, a, blown through these deadlines, and b, why are they not there yet, and what do you think another three days -- what difference will that make? PARSI: Well, the first reason why it`s taken long in general is because they`ve been negotiating for a year-and-a-half, two years now is the fact that they hadn`t talked to each other for 35 years. There were a lot of problems there. And they hadn`t resolved these issues. So, just starting and getting some progress took some time. The reason is why it`s getting delayed at this point is because both sides are really negotiating hard. I mean the flip side of the earlier argument you made is that the critics want to have it both ways. On the one hand, they want to say that Kerry is so eager to get a deal so that he`s willing to give up anything. But at the same time, if he`s so eager to get a deal, why is this taking so long, and why are so many deadlines being missed? This is contradictory. HAYES: Can you imagine a scenario in which this just falls apart in the next few days? PARSI: It certainly is not impossible. But I would be surprised if that were to happen. They have come so close. They have resolved so many of the toughest issues. In fact, the issues that are remaining are not as tough. The reason why they`re negotiating so hard on them is because both sides are under so much domestic pressure to drive a really hard bargain. And that`s what they`re doing. And in fact, if they were not blowing through these deadlines, they would be accused of having negotiated too softly and agreed to a deal too quickly. So, this is actually part of the dynamic of them also trying to appease the domestic critics and trying to create a strong image that they are bargaining as hard as they possibly could. HAYES: Trita Parsi who just got back from Vienna where those talks are happening and will continue through this week. We will keep an eye thank you very much. PARSI: Thanks for having me. HAYES: All right, up next, a total of 36 women accused Bill Cosby of sexual assault. Now, new court documents show Cosby`s own words about his relationship with drugs and women, two of his accusers join me ahead. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: The South Carolina senate in a vote of 36-3 gave final approval to a bill to remove the Confederate flag from the grounds of the state house today. The South Carolina House of Representatives voted to bypass committee and send the bill to the floor for what is expected to be a contentious debate. MSNBC`s Joy Reid reporting today that one legislator, Republican Michael Pitt has already introduced at least 25 amendments, which have to be debated for 20 minutes each, to try and slow the bill down and kill it. If the house passes the bill the remove the flag, it will head to governor Nicki Haley`s desk. She has called for the flag to come down and urged the South Carolina House to follow the Senate`s lead. We will continue to monitor that story, and we`ll be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: Bill Cosby has not yet responded through his attorneys or otherwise to the release of court documents from 10 years ago in which Cosby in his own words in a deposition admitted to getting seven prescriptions for Quaaludes during the 1970s for the purpose of using the drug on women with whom he wanted to have sex. For this discussion, I will refer to it as sex, because we do not know whether it was consensual or not. In fact, that is precisely what is disputed. And so out of a surfeit of caution, we will use that word. In that same deposition, Cosby does not answer as to whether he gave women the drug without their knowledge or against their will. NBC news has confirmed now a total of 36 alleged victims. Cosby has ever been charged and in prior statements has denied these allegations. NBC News has contacted Cobsy`s representatives numerous times since this document released and they say they have no comment as of now. But the 2005 deposition represents a first. Bill Cosby, in his own words, discussing the relationship between drugs and sex with women. The deposition related to a civil case against Cosby brought by a plaintiff whom NBC News will not name. The case was dismissed, and there was later an undisclosed settlement. In one portion of the 2005 deposition, Cosby answers a question about the use of Quaaludes. Question, when you got the Quaaludes, was it in your mind you were going to use these Quaaludes for young women you wanted to have sex with? Cosby`s answer, yes. In another portion of the deposition, Cosby is asked about a woman other than the plaintiff who had claimed that at age 19 Cosby had sex with her after he gave her Quaaludes. After some back and forth between the lawyers Cosby says the following regarding that woman. Answer, I met Ms. redacted in Las Vegas. She meets me backstage. I give her Quaaludes. We then have sex. I do not -- I can`t judge at this time what she knows about herself for 19 years, a passive personality. Then there is the plaintiff herself, the woman who brought the case that was later dismissed. There is line of questioning about the plaintiff and her mother having at some point asked simply for an apology followed by Cosby`s suggestion he pay for the plaintiff`s education if she maintained a certain grade point average. Question, so you`re saying that redacted would have to prove to you she got a 3.0 average wherever she went in order for you to pay for her education? Cosby`s answer, she would have to prove to me that while she was at said university that she was maintaining a 3.0. Finally, a deposition ended with very specific questions about how Cosby administered the pills to the plaintiff in question. Question, so you broke one pill in half. Where are the three. If you have one half and one whole one, that`s two. Are you saying you broke the whole one so you have three halves Yes. Why would you break the whole pill in half and give her both halves? Answer, because they`re long. I`ll be joined by two of Bill Cosby`s accusers to respond to all of this when we return. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: Joining me now Barbara Bowman and P.J. MASTEN who have both accused Bill Cosby of sexual misconduct. Thanks for joining me. Barbara, maybe I`ll begin with you, and just your reaction to the disclosure now of these documents, the first time we kind of have tangible evidence of what was going on behind the scenes and all these legal machinations that have been hidden from public view. BARBARA BOWMAN, COSBY ACCUSER: Elation, and relief, and hope for the future. It was definitely a view into the didactic are personality of Bill Cosby, and his grooming and predatory practices. It`s opening the doors to future education of young people who are not expecting us to come at them. And, you know, the ten years that it took me in particular to fight hard to have are my story heard and believed. In my darkest days I really never gave up. I knew that some day, some way a brick would be shattered. And this is it. And yesterday was a fabulous day for me, very victorious and a feeling of jubilation for me as well as I`m sure all the rest of us. HAYES: P.J., you don`t have to answer this if you don`t want to if you don`t want to walk through it, but I am curious if there were things in the details of these revelations that were familiar to the experience you say you have P.J. MASTEN, COSBY ACCUSER: Absolutely. Yes, absolutely. When the news broke yesterday, I felt complete vindication not just for me, but for the 48 women that have come forward and for the dozens of dozens that are still Jane Does. And hopefully there are a lot of women out there that will feel brave enough to come forward. And we will take care of them. We`ll get them therapy and take care and council them. There are many more, many more, Chris. HAYES: Can tell me P.J. specifically what aspects of it were familiar to you. MASTEN: In regards to what? HAYES: In terms of your experience with Mr. Cosby. MASTEN: I`m not sure what you mean by that, Chris. HAYES: I mean, in terms of the encounter you had and the sort of details of how that went down, in terms of the M.O. that he`s alleged to have that appears in these documents, which aspects of it were similar to what you say you have experienced. MASTEN: Well, I knew Bill Cosby for five years before the rape happened. He had invited me to dinner in Chicago and he told me to meet him at the White Hall Hotel, which I did. And I went upstairs and there were four other men in the room and they were drinking, watching sports. And Cosby asked if I wanted to have a cocktail. And I really wasn`t much of a drinker. So I said I would have a Grand Marnier. And he sent the bellman to get the bottle. He gave me the glass. I took two sips of it and that`s the last I remember until 4:00 in the morning. And I woke up. And I was bruised, and battered, and raped, and naked. And he was in the bed next to me. And I slithered out of the bed and got my clothes on, went downstairs, got in a cab, and went home and took a shower, completely flipped out. I had to go to work at Playboy. And I did tell my bosses at Playboy what he did to me. And I was told that Bill Cosby was Hugh Hefner`s best friend. And I said I know that. And they told me that nobody would believe me and to keep my mouth shut. And for 30-something years I have kept my mouth shut. And with brave women like Barbara Bowman and so many others I came forward. And I feel vindicated along with all the other ladies. I feel vidictated. HAYES: Barbara, did it occur to you or at what point did it possibly occur to you that there could be other women who had experienced what you say you experienced? BOWMAN: It occurred to me in 2005 when Andrea Constan filed her lawsuit for the same crime. And when I found out that I was living many in Arizona with a baby and a toddler and minding my own business. And looked online and I said, oh, my gosh, I`m not the only one. And I am going to do whatever it takes to go on a mission to support this woman. I believe her, because it happened to me. And that was the beginning of another long silent ten years. But that was what was maybe the key that unlocked the first door to many. And I just said, I`m not going to sit this silence anymore. And I found her attorney, and I called her attorney and I said, I`m only calling you because I believe your client and anything I can do to help her, I will do that. My statute of limitations has run out. As far as I know, I am not into this for anything except to support your client. And I became one of 13 Jane Does who were scheduled to testify in a court of law on behalf of Andrea Constan against Bill Cosby for the same allegations. And when she asked me why do you want to remain a Jane Doe, the judge wants to know, because we were prepping for testimony and depositions. I said, I don`t want to be a Jane Doe. I have been a Jane Doe all my life. And if I continue to be a Jane Doe, there is no reason for this to go on, because I won`t help anybody but myself. So it wasn`t just about my healing, it was about everyone else`s. So, you know, that journey was a very long journey but really to this day, looking back a well worth it journey. You know, no victory was ever won without a few battle scars in between. HAYES: P.J., quickly. What would you like to see happen to Mr. Cosby? MASTEN: I would like to see his star taken off the Hollywood Walk of Fame. I would like to see his statues taken off Disney properties and I would like to see him held accountable for all the rapes done to these women. HAYES: All right, Barbara Bowman and P.J. Masten thank you very much for joining me tonight. I really, really do appreciate it. That is All In for this evening. The Rachel Maddow Show starts right now. THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. END