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All In with Chris Hayes, Transcript 06/26/15

Guests: Rob Talmas, Joseph Vitale, Tammy Baldwin, Jelani Cobb, Joy Reid,Josh Barro

CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST: Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes on a huge, historic, absolutely head-snapping news day, this Friday on one of the most consequential weeks in the presidency of President Obama. Today was the day that the Supreme Court legalized same-sex marriage in all 50 states. We will talk to the plaintiffs who brought the case live from the historic Stonewall Inn in just a minute. You see them there. Today was also the day that President Obama gave a passionate and rousing eulogy to the slain pastor of Emanuel AME Church in Charleston, delivering one of the great speeches in recent memory and even leading the congregation in the singing of "Amazing Grace." We will play you that and take you to South Carolina for reaction. But, first, an update on the latest breaking news on this day, we have in Upstate New York, where a nearly three-week-long manhunt for two escaped murderers is coming to a dramatic head. At this hour, one escaped prisoner is dead while one remains at large. Richard Matt and David Sweat escaped from a maximum security prison 21 days ago. Tonight, law enforcement tells NBC News, Richard Matt has been shot and killed while authorities believe they are close to closing in on Sweat. Governor Andrew Cuomo of New York is expected to address the situation later in this hour. If it happens in this hour, we will bring that news conference to you live. Joining me now, NBC News correspondent John Yang. John, can you give us the latest? JOHN YANG, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Here`s what we know, Chris. We know that New York State Police Major Charles Guess told us in a statement that at 3:45 this afternoon, a tactical unit doing a search through a wooded area -- through an area near here encountered someone, shot him and killed him. They believe that man to be Richard Matt. Now, law enforcement officials speaking on background tell NBC News that it was a customs and border patrol tactical unit that carried that out. We spoke, or actually, WPTZ, our NBC affiliate in Plattsburgh spoke with a witness nearby who said they heard a single shot, which suggests it was not a shoot-out, but a single shot, a shot from a tactical unit with a tactical rifle taking out, they believe, Richard Matt. The officials also tell us that there was evidence in the area that suggested David Sweat was nearby. They have sealed off that area. They have flooded that area with all sorts of people, New York state police, Customs and Border Patrol, U.S. Marshals, FBI, New York state forestry officers, now searching that area. They`re helped a little bit that there`s a natural boundary on one side, Lake Titus. They can close in on this area. They say that they are in pursuit. Law enforcement officials tell NBC News that there was a second round of gunfire in this pursuit. We don`t know what that was about. We don`t know who was doing the firing. We don`t know much about what`s going on in there now. They are fighting the elements. The sun will go down at 8:47 here in this area. There will be some daylight after the sun drops down below the horizon, but after that, David Sweat may have a little bit of the upper hand. They do have night vision equipment. They do have infrared tracking technology from the U.S. Customs and Border Patrol that they can us use. Once things cool down in that area from the daylight heating, they can build up the contrast between body heat and the environment. So, what we know now is they believe they have shot and killed one of the escapees, Richard Matt. They believe they are in pursuit of the other, David Sweat -- Chris. HAYES: John Yang, thank you very much. Joining me now, NBC News correspondent Stephanie Gosk, who is also in the area, near Malone, New York, about 35 miles from the correctional facility from which the two men escaped. And, Stephanie, we spoke a little earlier. You had law enforcement flooding the area. It sounds like they`re forming a perimeter and believe they`re hot on the trail of David Sweat. STEPHANIE GOSK, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, we have that report that there was this second gun battle that John Yang was mentioning, and we`re not sure right now what the outcome of that was. But you know, we are right now on Route 30 in Malone. And John was describing from law enforcement officials just exactly what went down with Richard Matt. Well, they say that tactical team, actually they were coming down on a sweep on this road when they heard gunfire at a campground, and they went to check it out, and that`s when they came across Richard Matt. All of this today happened very, very quickly, and there are only a few roads that lead into this hotspot right now. A lot of people live in this area. You know, there are multiple homes on the roads that we drove in on. All of those roads have been shut down. There are a bunch of residents in cars here right now who can`t get back to their houses because they`re being told it`s just too dangerous to get back there. HAYES: All right. Stephanie Gosk in Upstate New York, thank you very much. We`re going to keep our eyes on that. As I said, the governor will probably be addressing the situation in just a bit. But right now, today was a historic day for civil rights in America, a day that will be written about in history books. On the same day President Obama traveled to Charleston, South Carolina, to eulogize a slain civil rights leader in a remarkable speech that we will bring you, the Supreme Court found that the 14th Amendment of the Constitution of the United States guarantees a right to marriage equality for every citizen in all 50 states beginning immediately. Celebrations and jubilation outside of the Supreme Court when that ruling was announced this morning with the Gay Men`s Chorus of Washington breaking out into the national anthem. (VIDEO CLIP PLAYS) HAYES: In San Francisco and across the country, gay rights supporters gathered in exaltation, including outside New York City`s Stonewall inn, the iconic site of the riots 46 years ago that kicked off the modern movement for gay equality. Celebrations are going on tonight across the nation, and the party continues here in New York City, where in an impeccable bit of timing, the gay pride celebration is this weekend. We will take you live to Stonewall. You`re seeing that right now, in just a moment. In states where same-sex marriage had been illegal until today, couples were instantly and finally free, for the most part, to tie the knot, in some cases after years or decades of waiting. This Dallas couple, Jack Evans and George Harris, married today after 54 years together. The Supreme Court decision was narrow, 5-4, with Justice Anthony Kennedy writing the majority decision and concluding that the Constitution, particularly the 14th Amendment, grants same-sex couples equal protection in the eyes of the law. Kennedy sided with the court`s four liberal justices against the four conservatives, each of whom wrote their own scathing dissent, though Justice Roberts was somewhat more measured. The decision was met with protests and condemnation in some quarters, including from some elected officials. In Pike and Geneva Counties in Alabama, judges there went so far as to vow not to issue marriage licenses to anyone in the wake of the ruling. But for same-sex couples and their supporters, it was a day of enormous pride. One celebrated by a president who himself broke civil rights barriers and who hailed all those who fought for this one. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Those countless, often anonymous heroes, they deserve our thanks. They should be very proud. America should be very proud. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Joining me now from outside the Stonewall Inn here in New York are Rob Talmas and Joseph Vitale, a married couple who with their son Cooper were plaintiffs in today`s case. And, gentlemen, where were you when you got the news? How`d you get the news? ROB TALMAS, PLAINTIFF IN SAME SEX MARRIAGE CASE: We were actually in MSNBC studios waiting to go on this morning. And you know, we heard at 10:01, you know, getting to the studio and sit down -- JOSEPH VITALE, PLAINTIFF IN SAME SEX MARRIAGE CASE: We won. TALMAS: -- and we won. And so, we didn`t have a lot of time to really digest what happened. But you know, over the course of the day, I mean, we`re just so excited. Words can`t even say how excited we are. HAYES: What does it mean to you that this ruling came down today? How likely would you have viewed this ten years ago? TALMAS: It was kind of hard to hear. HAYES: How likely would you have viewed this as ten years ago? VITALE: Oh, highly unlikely. TALMAS: Yes, highly unlikely. I don`t think ten years ago this would have even been -- the momentum wasn`t behind it, I think. The precedence now going into this case, while we were always hopeful, you know, there was precedent behind it, and a lot of momentum and public support on both sides, and, you know, we are just so excited about the ruling and how it turned out. And you know, what a great time it is. HAYES: Hey, Joseph, your son is also part of this, part of -- one of the plaintiffs. What does it mean for your son, what kind of America he is going to grow up in with this decision today? VITALE: He`s going to know nothing but equality in all 50 states. So, it will give us the freedom to travel throughout this great land that we call our own, knowing the fact that we are both listed as his parents, his legal parents. We also knew that because we lived in New York and they acknowledged that we`re his legal parents, but there were 13 holdout states. And as a result of today`s ruling, we are free to move about the country. HAYES: What is the scene down there? It was already going to be pride weekend this weekend, which is always a big celebratory weekend. Stonewall`s just been declared a historic site. What`s it like down there tonight right now? TALMAS: Well, it`s just amazing. You know, there`s thousands of people. Everybody`s super excited and happy. The rally was fantastic. The energy is just -- it`s electric. It`s amazing. People are just so excited. VITALE: You couldn`t have asked for a better weekend -- TALMAS: Yes. VITALE: -- to rule it out. Obviously, we have to be very conscious of what went down in South Carolina, but you know, we`ve reflected upon that and now we move on to celebration and moving forward in a free and equal land that we call our own. TALMAS: Everybody`s just really excited. HAYES: Rob Talmas and Joseph Vitale, triumphant plaintiffs today on this absolutely remarkable and historic day. Thank you, gentlemen. I really appreciate it. Enjoy the celebration and the weekend. TALMAS: Thank you. VITALE: Thank you. Bye-bye. HAYES: All right. Joining me now, Democratic Senator Tammy Baldwin of Wisconsin, who made history in 2012 when she became the first openly gay American elected to the U.S. Senate. Senator Baldwin, your reaction to today`s ruling. SEN. TAMMY BALDWIN (D), WISCONSIN: Oh, just joy. You know, love is love, family is family, and discrimination against anyone`s love or anyone`s family is wrong, and now the U.S. Supreme Court says it`s also unconstitutional. This is a huge milestone in our march towards equality and freedom. HAYES: It`s just remarkable to me how quickly the politics of this have changed. I watched then-Senator Hillary Clinton on the floor of the Senate in 2004 talking about marriage being between one man and one woman, about how central child-rearing was to it, which was at the time the consensus position of not just the Republican Party, the conservative movement or evangelical evangelicals, but the Democratic Party, of every national Democratic leader, practically. And in ten years, we`re going to watch the White House be lit up in rainbow colors tonight. Can you get your head around what`s happened? BALDWIN: You know, it`s very exciting to see the change that we`ve seen just in recent years. But I have to say, this is an issue that I`ve been working on since at least the mid-`90s. And we questioned ourselves back then, will we ever see the day, and how incredible and exciting it is, and also to see the progress of American public opinion and how far we`ve come. And the history in this country is that each generation leaves to the next an America that`s more equal, not less. HAYES: The politics of this are not completely gone, of course. The court issued a 5-4 decision, four dissenting opinions. And we`ve also gotten statements from a variety of presidential candidates on the Republican side, saying they don`t agree with the decision. Your home state governor, Scott Walker, who many anticipate will declare for president, saying not only does he not agree with the opinion, but he supports a constitutional amendment that would reverse it. What do you think about that? BALDWIN: Well, I`m pretty shocked at his statement today on the eve of his announcing his candidacy for the presidency. You know, just a year ago, he said very different things about this. He said, my opinion`s not really relevant, it`s in the Constitution. He should embrace those words today, because the court has found that discrimination is unconstitutional. Later in the year, he basically said it was settled, as state after state began to recognize same-sex marriages as marriage equality. Battles were won in the states across this country. And today`s statement was shocking. And I think Republican primary voters ought to ask some tough questions about his recent change in tone and change in opinion. HAYES: Many court watchers thought that this would be the opinion the court delivered, partly because of the way that the Windsor decision was structured, partly because of the tremendous near unanimity in lower courts where it required essentially states to recognize all couples. How much, having worked on this for two decades, was there a kind of pit in your stomach that you could wake up and be disappointed? BALDWIN: You know, I was feeling very hopeful about this case for so many different reasons, many of which you have just cited. But I really believed that it was going to come out the way it did, and I can`t tell you how delighted I am to be able to celebrate, again, this important step in the march towards full equality and freedom. But we do have more steps to take in that march. As we know, still some states have not passed laws to protect people in the LGBT community from discrimination of a variety of sorts, and there are many who fear that, you know, you could get married in the morning and still fired in the afternoon in too many states in this nation. So, it is a huge milestone, and we`re so joyous, but we have more work to do. HAYES: Yes, it`s remarkable to wrap your head around the fact that there are dozens of states in the union right now in which you can get married in the morning, put a picture of your spouse up in your cubicle and be fired for it legally that very same day. So, work left to be done. But, Senator Tammy Baldwin, thank you and congratulations on a huge day. BALDWIN: Thank you so much, Chris. HAYES: All right. So much more ahead on this absolutely incredible day. Stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: There are these moments in the presidency of Barack Obama, moments when the sheer profundity, the sheer scope and scale of what it means to have Barack Obama as president of the United States just kind of knocks you back. It leaves you speechless. Today, when the president walked into that church, when he walked into that auditorium to deliver his eulogy amidst thousands of mourners, you had a sense it was going to be one of those moments. And oh, my Lord, was it ever. We will show you what that looked like ahead. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: Expectations were extremely high for President Obama today in Charleston where he was scheduled to deliver the eulogy at the funeral for reverend and state senator, Clementa Pinckney, one of nine people murdered last week in the massacre at Emanuel AME Church. Amid the ensuing debate about race in America, the legacy of the Confederacy and its symbols, and with the nation turning to its first black president to help make sense of it all, President Obama walked into the auditorium, clapping along to a gospel song being sung, and he did not disappoint. He began with a moving tribute to Reverend Pinckney, a prominent figure in South Carolina who the Obamas knew personally, before making his first comments on the confederate battle flag. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) OBAMA: For too long, we were blind to the pain that the confederate flag stirred in too many of our citizens. As we all have to acknowledge, the flag has always represented more than just ancestral pride. For many, black and white, that flag was a reminder of systemic oppression and racial subjugation. We see that now. Removing the flag from this state`s capitol would not be an act of political correctness, it would not be an insult to the valor of Confederate soldiers, it would simply be an acknowledgment that the cause for which they fought, the cause of slavery was wrong. (CHEERS AND APPLAUSE) (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: One of the most stirring and memorable moments of his entire presidency, one that seemed to be completely spontaneous, President Obama burst into song. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) OBAMA: Amazing grace. Amazing grace. (singing): Amazing grace. How sweet the sound. That saved a wretch like me. I once was lost, but now I`m found. Was blind, but now I see -- (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Joining me now, Jelani Cobb, staff writer of "The New Yorker," director of the Institute of African-American Studies at the University of Connecticut. Jelani, you were there today. We all watched that in the office just -- in total wrapped disbelief at what we were seeing. What was it like to be in that arena? JELANI COBB, THE NEW YORKER: Well, you know, as you can hear from the audio, people just erupted when he began singing. And it`s hard to really convey, you know, the intensity of that moment of silence that preceded it. You know, there`s that interminable pause, and, you know, you`re wondering, has he lost his way in his text, you know? Has he become overcome with emotion? And then he returns to the theme, you know, with this song, and a song that is so appropriate, not only in terms of the theme of grace, which had been kind of, you know, threaded throughout, you know, his eulogy, but also this being a gospel song, you know, one of the most famous gospel songs, written by John Newton, a man who had been a slave trader himself, who found God and became an abolitionist. And so, what Obama was really talking about was that kind of metaphorical transformation in taking down the Confederate flag, that same type of redemption, racial redemption through, you know, Christian fellowship and Christian love. It was an amazingly profound moment. HAYES: The speech itself, which centered on this concept of grace. He talked about the reverend, but then he talked about the Christian concept of grace and how grace is something bestowed on us, even though we don`t deserve it. We`re all fallen. We`re all sinners, according to Christian theology, but grace is given to us by a benevolent God and then it`s up to us to do something with it. And he talked about this in this incredible context of what this last week and a half has been with the Confederate flag and with guns and with politics, about we`ve now been granted something. We have to earn our way forward. COBB: Right. And you know, the interesting thing about this is that this is kind of the sequel to the race speech that he gave in 2008. And it`s interesting to look at those two speeches as bookends, because in that, you know, that speech, to the extent that it was a brilliant, you know, work of craftsmanship, but it suffered from a kind of even-handedness that many people found unsettling. But in this speech, this is someone who has been in office for six years, someone who -- 6 1/2 years -- someone who`s looking toward the end of his presidency and who has, you know, been bruised in some of the things that he`s seen. He`s gone through the point where he`s no longer the idealistic person who talked about hope and change. And so, he talked about race in a much more specific way. He talked about institutional racism. He talked about the point where he brought everyone to his feet where he said you called Johnny back for a job interview, but you don`t call Jamal. HAYES: Stop right there, Jelani. I`m sorry that was amazing. Let me just play that clip, because that moment was absolutely incredible. Take a listen to this clip. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) OBAMA: Maybe we now realize the way racial bias can infect us, even when we don`t realize it. So that we`re guarding against not just racial slurs, but we`re also guarding against the subtle impulse to call Johnny back for a job interview but not Jamal. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Amazing moment, also grounded, I should say in some pretty good social logical research that`s been done. COBB: Right. HAYES: In fact, by the paper, by economists sort of precisely on racialized names and likely to call back. Devah Pager, a sociologist at Harvard has done research on black versus white names on resumes. It`s all very true in terms of what we know from the data. COBB: Right, it absolutely is. And in some sense, I think what the president was also doing was articulating the causes that had animated the life of the man he was called to eulogize. And that was something that you saw also throughout the service and very much explicitly when the president began talking, when he said, "Who was Reverend Clementa Pinckney? What did he care about, you know, what were the things he was concerned with?" And even pushing himself and pushing the rest of us forward a little bit, we said that we can`t simply have a symbolic gesture, even if it is an important symbolic gesture by taking down the flags. There are more things than that that have to be done. HAYES: I thought that moment where he also says every time we have a conversation -- he says we don`t need a conversation about race. We talk about race all the time. There`s a lot of stuff we need to do. COBB: Right. HAYES: That was also just an incredibly frank, honest, incredible moment. COBB: Right, it was. One thing I will say, one quibble was that I kind of hoped when he said that, that he would present at least the symbolic gesture or something in recognition of Reverend Pinckney`s life. I thought that at that point that he might say, oh, well, in honor of his life, we are going to do this. And that was one thing that I was kind of looking for in the speech that I didn`t see. But that said, this was still a masterful work of oratory. HAYES: Yes, and really just affecting. I would say this is one of those times when the Internet is your friend because you can watch the whole thing online. It`s 40 minutes. It`s worth every single second. Don`t watch now. Keep watching our program, but afterwards, or after Rachel`s done or after all of our programming, watch it tonight. Jelani Cobb in Charleston, thank you so much. COBB: Thank you. HAYES: We`re going to bump out with a little bit more of the president today eulogizing Reverend Pinckney. Take a listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) OBAMA: It was an act that drew on a long history of bombs and arson and shots fired at churches, not random, but as a means of control, a way to terrorize and oppress. (APPLAUSE) An act that he imagined would insight fear and recrimination, violence and suspicion, an act that he presumed would deepen divisions, that trace back to our nation`s original sin. Oh, but God works in mysterious ways. (CHEERS AND APPLAUSE) God has different ideas! (CHEERS AND APPLAUSE) (END VIDEO CLIP) (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: The sun is setting in Washington, D.C., and as it sets, you can see that the White House is lit up tonight in rainbow colors, those colors beginning to manifest themselves against the twilight of darkness. The colors in celebration of today`s historic ruling granting marriage equality in all 50 states, grounded in the constitution. We are also at this hour on one of the craziest news days in recent memory awaiting a press conference from the governor of New York. He is in upstate New York, just a few miles from the Canadian border, where earlier today one of the two men who escaped from Clinton Correctional Facility, Richard Matt, was shot and killed by law enforcement. The hunt for David Sweat continues. Law enforcement officials believe he is in the area. We anticipate an update of some form from the governor on all of that. We will keep our eyes posted on that. Joining me now, MSNBC contributor Josh Barro to talk about this historic day. And I`m fascinated by the politics of this. Substantively, I`m less fascinated and more disheartened because it`s the right thing and it`s good and it`s a tremendous cause of celebration. Where do you see the Republican Party on this issue now? A lot of people today saying behind closed doors, Republican political consultants are very happy this is not a live issue. JOSH BARROW, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Oh, absolutely. I think almost 100 percent of the Republican consultant class, professional staffer class, would really very much like this issue to go away. HAYES: In fact, I would even say a large majority of them are probably substantively in favor of the ruling. BARRO: Yes. Although I think also a lot of -- the sort of person who becomes a professional Republican staffer in a blue state -- and most of them live in blue states because they live in and around Washington -- are people who don`t care that much about this issue. I think a lot of them would say that they`re in favor of it, but really they just -- I think they`re pleased to not be having to talk about it too much and to focus more on the issues they actually care about. In terms of the candidates, I think they`re breaking out into three areas. You see Jeb Bush and Lindsey Graham say today that they don`t think the Republican Party should pursue a constitutional amendment to reopen the issue. Lindsey Graham rather explicitly said they can`t win. They can`t get two-thirds in congress or the states, so there`s no reason to have a divisive fight over that they`ll lose. A Jeb Bush spokesperson said that they won`t pursue -- they wouldn`t pursue that. Then you saw candidates like Scott Walker saying, no, there should be a constitutional amendment to give this power back to state governments to decide how marriage should be regulated. And then you had Mike Huckababee talking about how you don`t have to obey the Supreme Court when they make a decision that`s invalid. It`s up to congress and the president to stick up to the court when the court misinterprets the constitution. So, you have, like, three possible different levels of resistance to this, and I think that unfortunately for that Republican consultant class, that`s going to end up being a live fight in this Republican primary. HAYES: That is -- this is a really important point, because I think everyone was thinking and hoping within the Republican strategic class, this will take it out of our hands, it will render it a moot issue, but with so many candidates, and particularly when you`re focusing on Iowa caucuses, which have a very strong brace of evangelical Christians who I don`t think feel any differently about marriage than they did ten years ago, that it is going to be a live issue because Mike Huckabee and Scott Walker and others can make it a live issue because they can press those candidates on these positions. BARRO: I think that`s true except for one thing, one reason that I think Jeb Bush`s position may win the day even within the Republican Party on this, which is the immense fatalism you hear from opponents of marriage equality. They all understand this is an issue that they were going to lose. They talk about it as something that even if they feel they have to fight, there`s sort of this understanding that not only is the trend against them, but increasingly, the country is against them. And so, I think that messaging from Lindsey Graham is actually something you will hear over and over from Republicans who do not want to pursue a constitutional amendment. Sort of, look, we`re going to lose. HAYES: Right. BARRO: Do you really want to have this fight if we`re going to lose? HAYES: Right, as opposed to making this a substantive argument. The other thing to keep in mind today, there are two ways of reading the opinions. There are four dissents. The Justice Scalia dissent is every bit as furious, mocking, and insulting as you might imagine. He talks at one point about how he would rather hide his head in a bag than be associated with the majority opinion, which he refers to as essentially having the wisdom of a fortune cookie. I mean, it is like -- he`s like an insult comic, basically. Even turning it up to 11 compared to yesterday`s ACA dissent, which was already turned up to 11. But he also is -- it`s the most sweeping decision they could have reached, right? Because they could have reached a narrower decision that says states have to recognize other states` marriages, but you actually don`t have to yourself in your state conduct them, but that`s not what they did. 50 states, all square. BARRO: Yeah. Well, I think, you know, as you mentioned there were four dissents. It`s very unusual to have four justices in dissent, each issuing their own dissents and particularly joining each other`s dissents. It`s like they each wanted their own voice on the record of exactly why they were so upset about this decision. But I thought the Roberts dissent was very interesting in that in many ways very similar to Roberts` majority opinion in the health care decision yesterday, both opinions saying over and over again how we have to respect the intent of the legislatures, in this case talking about how it was state legislators and voters that decided marriage would be this way, rejecting the idea that must be just about ill intent and contempt by the voters and the legislators who put those decisions there. Similarly yesterday in the health care case, talking about how, you know, obviously, did not intend to break the health care market with this. They intended to improve it. So in both cases... HAYES: A little bit a through line of judicial restraint. That`s a live picture outside of the Stonewall Inn, which is, of course, the site of a riot 76 years ago when police were busting what was then essentially an illegal gay bar because being gay was illegal at that time. The crowd congregating on the eve of what will be Pride Weekend here. Obviously, jubilant exultation in the wake of the decision today. We are also seeing resistance at the state level. We are also, I should say, at this moment, awaiting a possible press conference from Governor Andrew Cuomo, that about the developments in upstate New York pertaining to the two convicts who escaped from Clinton Correctional Facility, one of whom, we believe, Richard Matt was shot and killed by law enforcement earlier. The other one remains at large. Just keeping you abreast of everything that`s going on on this whirlwind of a day. We are seeing some resistance in the states. Louisiana`s attorney general saying we`re not issuing marriage licenses immediately. Texas`s attorney general saying the same thing, although local counties, like Tarrant County, saying we are, the county -- Dallas County issuing. And then Alabama has two counties that say we`re shutting the whole thing down, no marriage licenses being issued. How long do you think that resistance can last? BARRO: Not very long. I mean, it`s -- while this was working its way through the courts and while you had decisions that, you know, were issued against one entity, one state... HAYES: I`m going to stop you right there, because I believe Andrew Cuomo is stepping up right to the podium right now. Let`s take a listen to Governor Andrew Cuomo giving us the latest on the two escaped killers from Clinton Correctional Facility at this hour. ANDREW CUOMO, GOVERNOR OF NEW YORK: Thank you. Good evening to all of you. I want to thank the New York State Police for being here, the Department of Corrections Services, DEC, our partners from the FBI, the U.S. Marshals, U.S. Customs and Border Patrol. We have the Vermont State Police here, Clinton County District Attorney, the Franklin County District Attorney, the sheriffs from Franklin and Clinton, Plattsburgh City Police, Malone Village Police Department and the State Regis Mohawk Tribal Police. This afternoon, as has been reported, there was a civil complaint, civilian complaint in the town of Duane. There was a gunshot that was fired at a camping trailer. The state police responded to investigate the complaint. They came upon a cabin. They went inside the cabin. They detected the smell of gun powder. The law enforcement partners were then notified and the Customs and Border Patrol tactical team helicoptered in and approached the site. The team came upon Matt, who was an escaped prisoner from Dannemora, engaged Mr. Matt, who was armed, and Mr. Matt was shot and killed. We have no reason to believe that Mr. Sweat was not with Mr. Matt at the time, but we don`t have any confirming evidence that he was, either. There are several leads that are being tracked down as we speak about Mr. Sweat and his possible whereabouts, but we don`t have anything to confirm where Mr. Sweat is at this time. I want to thank New Yorkers. I want to thank the people of Clinton County and Franklin County who have put up with a lot over these past 20 days. We`ve had over 2,300 leads, so New Yorkers have been very helpful in responding to put an end to this crisis. I want to thank our partners in law enforcement who have done an extraordinary job, our local partners, our federal partners who have been away from their homes and their families to come here and help us over these past three weeks or so. You never want to see anyone lose their life, but I would remind people that Mr. Matt was an escaped murderer from a state prison. Mr. Matt killed two people who we know about. Mr. Matt killed his boss in a dispute and dismembered him. He fled to Mexico and then he killed another person in Mexico and was imprisoned in Mexico. Mr. Sweat is also dangerous. Mr. Sweat was involved in the killing of a sheriff`s deputy in Broome County, where the sheriff`s deputy had come upon a crime. Mr. Sweat and his accomplices hit the sheriff`s deputy with the car, got out and shot him 22 times and then ran over him. So, these are dangerous, dangerous men. And that`s why you see law enforcement from across this country arrayed before you today, cooperating with one mission to bring these gentlemen to justice. I`m now going to turn it over to Superintendent Joseph D`Amico, who is head of the state police, which has been heading up the investigation in cooperation with our partners. I would remind everyone that this is an ongoing investigation, so the amount of information that can be provided to the public is something that we have to watch carefully. Obviously, we don`t want to give the people we`re pursuing any more information than we need to. With that, Superintendent Joseph D`Amico. JOSEPH D`AMICO, NEW YORK STATE POLICE: Thank you, governor. So, I just wanted to take a second and bring you back to how we got into this area searching where we discovered Matt today. So, as you recall, we had a report of a burglary last Saturday where we were able to identify property left at the scene by Matt, and we deployed heavily in that area. That burglary was in a camp about three miles off of any paved roadway. Wednesday night, late Wednesday night, we received a report of a break-in of a cabin off Route 41 in the town of Malone. A screen had been cut and a window was broken into. We responded up. We recovered evidence from that break-in, which also indicated that Matt was present at that scene. So, late yesterday, we deployed a number of uniformed officers and tactical teams up to that area and started to establish a fairly wide grid for searching. Into today we were able to confirm that property recovered at the scene was, in fact, Matt this morning. Late morning, we discovered through search teams what we believed to be a camp where maybe somebody had laid down. We found candy wrappers and some other things that were left behind. That was all seized. And so, we had a fairly aggressive search in the area today. And about 1:51 today, we received the report that a camper, a person towing a camper, believed that their camper had been shot. Originally, they had heard a sound. They thought maybe they had a flat. They got out. They realized they didn`t have a flat. They drove on about eight miles. And when they pulled into a camp site, they examined the trailer that they were towing and realized that there was a bullet hole through the back of the camper. So, based on that, they notified state police. We responded and realized that the location of the shooting was probably about eight miles back. And as the governor indicated, we deployed teams from multiple agencies to that area. We were able to get into the cabin where we discovered the smell of gun powder and realized that a weapon had been fired. Also, there was indication that someone recently had been there and had fled out the back door. As we were doing the ground search in the area, there was movement detected by officers on the ground, what they believed to be coughs, so they knew they were dealing with humans as opposed to wildlife. And a team, a tactical team from Customs and Border Protection met up with Matt in the woods, challenged him, and he was shot dead by border patrol at that time. We recovered a 20-gauge shotgun from Matt`s body at the location. Based on that, we continue to search. We have a lot of people in the area. We have canines and we have a decent perimeter set up, and we`re searching for Sweat at this time. We have no actual sighting of Sweat by law enforcement, but we have no indication that Sweat wasn`t accompanying Matt at the time that he was shot and killed, so we`re going to maintain the perimeter that we have, continue to do a good ground search, just as we have in the last couple of days, a tactic that`s been successful for us in law enforcement. And until such time as we receive other information, you know, we`ll be doing a very thorough search. We`ve followed up on in excess of 2,400 leads at this time. We take every one of them serious. We thank the public for the tips that they`ve called in. And just as the governor said, I`d like to thank all my law enforcement partners who stand here with me today. A tremendous effort on the ground over the last three weeks, 24 hours a day, you know, in the state police. We couldn`t have done it without the people who are standing here. We truly appreciate it. I would also like to extend my personal thanks to the people of the communities where we`ve been searching. You know, we know that it`s very intrusive to have... (APPLAUSE) HAYES: Update from the governor and law enforcement about the situation in upstate New York, basically confirming what we already know -- Richard Matt has been killed by law enforcement. David Sweat remains at large, although law enforcement officials believe they have an area. They will continue to search for him. And if we get any more news about that search, we will, of course, bring it to you here live. When we come back, MSNBC national correspondent Joy Reid and Kenji Yoshino, who literally wrote one of the books on gay marriage. Stick around. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: Joining me now, MSNBC national correspondent Joy Reid, sand still with me, MSNBC`s Josh Barro. Kenji Yoshino, who is a phenomenal scholar on this, who we had booked for tonight and then the breaking news interrupted. And so I apologize to him and to you viewers, who were looking forward to him. This week, this week. Today was so insane and head-spinning, and we have so many moving parts, you could lose sight of what this week meant. I mean, if you just took the 48 hours of the ACA decision and the marriage ruling today, just that 48 hours, the Obama presidency is one of the most monumental shifts in American society and social life and policy of any presidency, particularly, you know, in the last 100 years, let`s say. And that`s just the two things that happened... JOY REID, MSNBC CORRESPONDETN: Not even with the singing in the church! HAYES: That`s not even with the singing in church. REID: Not even with the song in church. Full stop. I mean, since the Johnson era, I don`t think there`s been this concentrated amount of really dramatic policy change that moved the country significantly in a progressive direction. So, we`re talking at least a 50-year span between the LBJ era, which was incredibly productive for what progressives want the country to be, and now. And the irony of it, Chris, the irony is, in the first 18 months of the Obama presidency, he was being assailed by the left, who didn`t think he was being aggressive enough in pushing the conversation to the left. And what did he say? He said he wanted you, the us, the people out there in the world to be the change, to push the change. The LGBT community did that in spades. They pushed the president, pushed the White House, pushed the policy in congress and succeeded mightily. HAYES: And let`s be clear, right, in terms of how this dynamic works. I mean, there was a transimmigrant woman heckling the president in the White House the other day. REID: Yes. HAYES: And I saw lots of people posting this thing about, like the president shut her down or whatever. But you know who else was heckling the president? Gay folks were heckling the president on marriage and on don`t ask, don`t tell, and were right and the White House came to those positions. REID: Came to them. HAYES: And there has been a synergy, the places where the most progress has been made, there has been both the White House threading the needle and also activists and organizers` pressures. BARRO: And it was activists kicking and screaming that don`t ask, don`t tell had to be done before the end of the congress in 2010... HAYES: It`s so funny, because don`t ask, don`t tell was such a huge deal at time. It`s like, oh, right, yeah, we did that. That was like a huge fight. BARROW: Yeah, but it -- there were a number of things that the White House had on its list that they did not do in that congress. I think not properly anticipating how they might not be able to do them again during the rest of the presidency. So, I think, you know, the first two years, there were these big legislative actions and it`s telling that the things we`re looking at this week are not legislative actions. HAYES: Right. BARRO; But they are big, monumental things for the president`s record. REID: But the reason that the president largely couldn`t do those things in the congress is because the singular focus of this White House was health care. HAYES: Right. That`s right, yes. REID: And so, now that the Supreme Court to also ratify and really sit set in granite health care, huge. HAYES: And that`s why actually the stakes on both those Supreme Court decisions have been so high. REID: Huge. HAYES: Because the amount of political capital that was spent by this president, by the Democratic Party. I mean, the Democratic Party sacrificed a national congressional majority of the Affordable Care Act. It has sacrificed numerous senators. I mean, that law was not popular for a long time. REID: That`s right. HAYES: Whatever you say about the Affordable Care Act, you cannot say that it was done for political expedience. BARRO: That`s right. HAYES: I mean like, because they have paid. They have paid and paid and spent down that political capital. REID: Yeah. HAYES: And the idea that after all that, after the sort of political casualties that mounted up, that a court would come in and yank it away? That was tough. BARRO; Although, I actually for this week for monumental changes this week, I want to nominate the stuff that went on around the confederate flag. HAYES: Because that`s the other thing. BARRO: And it`s not that the flag matters so much itself, although it matters a great deal, but it`s sort of this decision that we`re not going to tolerate anymore this idea that the confederacy was good and that we should honor both sides in the civil war and treat it like it was a reasonable dispute among people who might disagree about things. It`s saying, no, it`s not just -- people say the southeast to admit its lost -- no, it`s the southeast to admit that it was wrong. REID: Yeah. BARRO: And I think finally it`s been this decision that, no, this is not going to be something that we accommodate both sides anymore. HAYES: And that moment today at the funeral, when the president said -- when he talked about the flag and he said that the recognition of the cause for which they fought, slavery, was wrong. Now, that`s like a moral tautology, right. That`s like the most obvious noncontroversial statement, but in that space and in the political context, it seemed so defiant. And so remarkable that there was this amazing ovation for it. REID: And that you think about it, a black president who`s directly a product of the 1960s civil rights movement that prompted the southern states to put up that flag in defiance, in absolute ugly defiance of the idea that the grandsons and granddaughters of the formerly enslaved could be their equals, which is why the non slaveholders fought, quite frankly, for a society in which they were above, even if they were at the lowest station in life, were above every black citizen. So, just that this president, a black president to stand in that church that had been -- to stand in that church, giving that eulogy to nine people who were essentially martyrs to this cause of trying to eradicate vicious, vial racism, it`s all so dramatic and incredible. HAYES: And there`s also this degree of this sort of tide of social change in the country. I mean, we see -- you know, we`ve seen on gay equality this just remarkable change in public opinion, the whiplash- inducing change on the confederate flag just in the span of a week. And there are times in the Obama presidency where everything seems stuck and lodged and in a rut, and like, the wagon is, like, can`t get back on the road. And then all of a sudden, it`s back on the road and things are going very quickly. BARRO: I would also note with both of these something that might be - - might make the left a little ambivalent. The outsized role of large corporations in both of these social changes. HAYES: Great point. BARRO: Leaning on state governments. Last year, Nikki Haley, when she was explaining why she didn`t want to do anything about the confederate flag said, well, no CEO has ever called me and said the confederate flag is something they`re concerned about with doing business in South Carolina. Now it`s clear that she and lots of other elected officials... HAYES: Got those calls. BARRO: Just like elected officials in states were leaned on about gay rights. REID: And now you see Walmart and all these other big-box retailers saying we don`t want anything to do with that flag. HAYES: And in some ways that is the big, great sort of battle yet to be sort of won in some ways, is sort of this concentration of wealth, concentration power, that`s been seen even through this era of tremendous progress, which I think is giving some of the fire to Bernie Sanders. I want to just take a second. Just take a look -- there`s the White House, you know, in rainbow colors. Folks celebrating outside of the Stonewall. Tonight I`m going to leave here, I`m going to go to the retirement party of my father. He was a Jesuit and then he was a community organizer, and he spent years as a community organizer and worked the last 20 years in the New York City department of health on health equity issues -- lead paint, obesity, diabetes in poor neighborhoods. And my dad is just a remarkable person who`s done remarkable work his whole life. And I`ve been thinking about how change happens, particularly the confederate flag and this today. And we think about it as sort of linear thing, like you`re on a march up a hill and you know how far you are. But it strikes me this week, it`s a lot more like getting the lid out of a jar of jelly that`s stuck. And you pray and you pry and you pry and you pry and feel it`s not budging at all. And you try again, and you get frustrated, and you put it down and you come back to it. And then you hand it to somebody else or you take it back and you give it a turn and it pops off just like that. And so, you know, you`ve just got to keep trying. And my dad has been doing that for his whole career. So, thank you, dad. Joy Reid and Josh Barro, thank you both. That is All In for this evening. The Rachel Maddow Show starts now. THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. END