All In with Chris Hayes, Transcript 05/22/15

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voice-over): Tonight on ALL IN -- JOSH DUGGAR, REALITY STAR: I would submit to you that every single issue is moral. HAYES: The scandal around America`s cable culture warriors continues to erupt. Guess which presidential candidate is standing by their Duggar? Dan Savage is here with reaction. Then, the unbelievable way this politician just announced a love child with his former receptionist. RADIO HOST: Have you ever admitted that, publicly, your son? JOE MORRISSEY, FORMER VA. DELEGATE: Everybody knows that Chase is my boy. HAYES: Plus, the 12-year-old shot and killed by Cleveland police. Tonight, why six months later there are no charges in the case of Tamir Rice. And all in at the movies -- UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have not been -- we are not (INAUDIBLE)! HAYES: Why is there is more consensus on "Mad Max" than there is on global warming. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where is she taking them? HAYES: ALL IN starts now. (END VIDEOTAPE) HAYES: Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes. Big news coming out of the cross-section of the conservative cultural wars and reality TV. Tonight, Josh Duggar, the eldest featured on the hit TLC reality show "19 Kids and Counting", finds himself at the center of a sexual abuse scandal that has forced him to resign from his position at a conservative Christian lobbying group. Allegations involving Duggar were first revealed by "In Touch" magazine, which obtained a 2006 police report. The report says that Josh Duggar was accused of repeatedly sexually molesting five underage girls, some while they slept in 2002 and 2003 when Duggar was a teenager. The now 27-year-old married father of three does not deny these allegations. He issued a statement on Thursday that reads in part, "Twelve years ago as a young teenager, I acted inexcusably for which I am extremely sorry and deeply regret. I confessed this to my parents who took several steps to help me address the situation. We spoke with the authorities where I confessed my wrongdoing, and my parents arranged for me and those affected by my action to receive counseling." If you know Josh Duggar, the reality TV star, you know him from the TLC show "19 Kids and Counting," a program chronicling the lives of a prolific conservative Christian family in northwest Arkansas. Parents Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar have since issued their own statement that reads, in part, "When Josh was a young teenager, he made some bad mistakes, and we were shocked. That dark and difficult time caused us to seek God like never before." Today, TLC announced it was pulling the show from its schedule, but was not clear about long-term plans. "We`re deeply saddened and troubled by this heartbreaking situation. Our thoughts and prayers are with the family and victims at this point in time." But the fallout over this story extends far beyond the world of basic cable because the Duggar family placed themselves at the forefront of America`s culture wars. They have been prominent advocates on a variety of fronts, championing anti-choice legislation, speaking out against marriage equality, and positioning themselves as outspoken critics of the LGBT community. Up until yesterday, Josh Duggar worked for the Family Research Council, a stridently anti-gay organization, and in that position, he once argued that an LGBT non-discrimination measure in Arkansas would jeopardize the safety of children. (BEGIN AUDIO CLIP) JOSH DUGGAR: Enacting additional laws that are trying to protect one group of people over another is not really the solution. In fact, it has often the inverse effect on others. We have to make sure that we`re standing up to t right of privacy and protecting the well being of women and children in our cities. (END AUDIO CLIP) HAYES: Yesterday, Duggar resigned from his position as the head of the Research Family Council`s political arm. That group posting this statement, "Josh believes the situation will make it difficult for him to be effective in his current work." Yes. "We believe this is the best decision for Josh and his family at this time." Yet before these allegations came to light, Duggar`s TV celebrity and political activism placed him in contact with plenty of high profile Republican presidential hopefuls. His Twitter offering the evidence. Texas Senator Ted Cruz, Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker, former Florida Governor Jeb Bush, former Senator Rick Santorum who was endorsed by the Duggar family in 2012 and Mike Huckabee, a Duggar family friend who has gotten the Duggar seal of approval this election cycle. Today, the former Arkansas governor posting a message on Facebook confirming his support for the family. Reading, "Josh`s action when he was an underage teen are, as he described them himself, inexcusable, but that doesn`t mean unforgiveable." Perhaps. But the details released were pretty horrific. According to report, family patriarch Jim Bob Duggar learned of the allegations of sexual abuse in 2002. He reportedly sought help from church elders following an incident in 2003, did not call police. According to report, Jim Bob Duggar told authorities that Josh Duggar was sent away for months of hard physical work and counseling. Investigation into the allegations was finally open in 2006 when someone, we don`t know who, e-mailed the Oprah Winfrey show, the Oprah Winfrey Show then passed along the information to authorities. The statute of limitations had run out and no charges were filed. Yesterday, a judge in Arkansas ordered the case documents expunged at the request of one of the alleged victims who still a minor. Joining me now, the host of "Savage Lovecast," author and advocate, Dan Savage. All right. There is a lot here. There is a lot of different complicated ways I feel about this entire story. Your reaction to this, particularly given the political role, the Duggar family, Josh Duggar in particular, have played on issues like particularly marriage equality. DAN SAVAGE, SAVAGE LOVECAST: Not so much marriage equality. The Duggars are very vocally and actively opposed an LGBT actively civil rights ordinance in Fayetteville, Arkansas, where they live, and back their referendum to repeal that law. And Michelle Duggar, Josh Duggar`s mom argued that this law presented a danger to little girls particularly, because it would allow trans women to use bathrooms. And it was in the best interest of children to repeal this LGBT civil rights law. And just the hypocrisy of Michelle Duggar out there, demagoguing and demonizing LGBT people, while at the same time, having covered up for and protected her son who had actually molested at least five little girls that we know of is just staggering. It`s galling. And the other thing I think to remember, I`ve been following this some Twitter and online, there`s I believe it`s a discomforting expression, almost amyloid delight on the part of some people I agree with, politically. People on the left, I`m on the left. We have to remember as we talk about this that five little girls -- at least five little girls -- were abused and molested, and there`s nothing here to take delight in or to celebrate. HAYES: Yes, I 100 percent agree. And I also have seen that tone creep in in some places and found it pretty gross. The other thought I keep thinking about is we have conversations constantly about family values. I just can`t -- I`m a parent, OK? I`ve got two kids. You`re a parent. The thought of this horrible thing that has happened in your family with your kids, horrible thing, OK? Horrible obviously to the kids who have been victims, also horrible, the 14-year-old boy who has done that who you have to hope, Jesus, what could we do to make sure this doesn`t happen again, and to choose to put yourself out as a national television product knowing that your family is keeping this secret and the weight that is bearing down on everyone in your family, just as parent, it just gob smacks me. It gobsmacks me to do this to your kids. SAVAGE: And to the other kids. One of the other things I think that is so creepy about this whole situation is the Duggars with their 19 children are very vocal on television about the fact that the older children are really placed in a parental role, that they play a role in parenting their younger children. So, this abuse may not have been experienced by the children who were abused in quite the same way if it was interfamily. Not sibling on sibling, but parent on child almost, which is more potentially damaging. And as far as we know, no counseling, really, of any sort was made available to these kids as far as we know at this time. It`s still unfolding, still coming out. HAYES: You know, there`s also to me, the point you made about the sort of language we use about danger to children, danger to children is a language that`s used in politics, particularly in all sorts of ways, to pass all kinds of policies, sometimes danger to children is used as an excuse to beat back marriage equality or LGBT rights, sometimes to pass certain laws or increase sentences. And this is a stark reminder. I`ve done a lot of reporting on the Catholic Church, actually, where danger to children comes from. The vast majority of these incidents are happening among people that are invited into the home for whatever reason. That`s the hardest truth to come across, and it`s not the one that`s politically convenient when we create the idea of the sort of foreign invader that we have to barricade against. SAVAGE: Right. It doesn`t jibe with the whole stranger danger concept. We want to put this risk and threat outside our families. We want to pretend that is some creepy horrible others, some LGBT boogeyman that`s going to perpetrate this kind of abuse, when actual studies demonstrate that people are likely to be sexually abuse -- even sexually assaulted by someone close to them, someone that they know. You know, what we see from the religious right constantly is this projection, this shifting of responsibility, marry -- gay couples who want to marry present a threat to the institution of marriage. It`s not straight couples who are committing adultery or telling themselves lies about adultery like it cannot be something that a marriage can survive, or divorcing that they`re a threat to the institution of marriage. It`s same- sex couples that wish to marry that are a threat, and it absolves straight couples or straight people, straight religion, straight churches, evangelicals are more likely to divorce than none evangelicals, responsibility for what they`re doing to marriage. And in the same way, we see most abuse, most sexual molestation happens within families. And yet when we talk about it, when religious conservatives talk about it, they want to point a finger at nonfamily, they want to point a finger at people that they define as the enemies of family, or not from were having families of their own, LGBT people, particularly trans people increasingly, with this anti-trans bathroom bills. And that is what the Duggars have dug in on, is attacking transpeople and opposing this LGBT rights bill in Fayetteville where they were out there arguing that the threat to little girls in Fayetteville were transwomen when they knew -- when they were covering for someone who demonstrated that he, at least at that age, was a threat to little girls himself. HAYES: Dan Savage, thank you very much. Really appreciate it. Joining me now, psychiatrist Dr. Janet Taylor, and former public defender, David Feige, author of "Indefensible". Dr. Taylor, let me start with you. You had strong reaction to the Mike Huckabee statement. You know, there`s part of me that agrees with the Mike Huckabee statement. In fact, all of me agrees that inexcusable is not the same as unforgiveable. I guess my point is that I would like for that equanimity in large part of this to be extended past the circle of ultra Christian conservatives who happen to be family friends of the Huckabees. DR. JANET TAYLOR, PSYCHIATRIST: Yes. Well, my issue is sexual abuse is a criminal act and is not a mistake. And a 14-year-old who presumably knows right from wrong should not be in a position to be excused. He should be in a position to be charged and held accountable. HAYES: But isn`t -- David, do you agree with that? DAVID FEIGE, FMR. PUBLIC DEFENDER: Not in the slightest. I mean, look, make no mistake about it, I don`t want to be an apology for -- an apologist for their views. But at the same time, there is politics of personal destruction that really concerns me. And from everything I`ve seen, OK, they haven`t come forward. There`s no indication that anything happened again. He was contrite, he apologized, he was forthright with his family and I know I sound like -- HAYES: You do sound like an apologist. You watch my jaw dropping. FEIGE: I know. But here`s the thing, at some point, really, what would punishment have done? What exactly would punishment have done? HAYES: Well, we don`t -- well, Janet? TAYLOR: Punishment would give justice to the victims. No one is talking about these incident victims that presumably we don`t know if they got treatment, we don`t know if they had justice, we don`t know if they had an apology. FEIGE: We don`t know any of it. We don`t know what they would have wanted. We don`t know what they do want. It occurs to me -- TAYLOR: What this would have wanted was not to be forcibly touched against their will. That`s what they would have wanted. FEIGE: But you know what? I reject the idea that every single victim wants nothing but vengeance, wants nothing but incarceration. I don`t know if this was interfamily or not, but I can certainly imagine a situation in which siblings forgive siblings, and it does seem to me that at that point, the government might be wrong to step in and insist on incarceration. And, by the way, people do go to prison for a very long time and have their lives ruined for this sort of thing. HAYES: Well, let me interrupt -- TAYLOR: Do you understand that victims lives are ruined because of the stigma of silence and people fought being held accountable? FEIGE: But I don`t understand where you get the idea that they have been silenced. We don`t know one way or another. HAYES: Let me intervene and touch on two things, OK? One is there`s a question about whether this should have been handled by the authorities. Dr. Taylor, it sounds to me like you think they should have. And in fact -- TAYLOR: It`s -- there is no question. There are people and teenagers who are in jail right now for sexual assault and sexual abuse. Teenagers account for 20 percent of the rapes in this country. Why should he be excused? HAYES: So, there`s a question of whether the authorities should be called in. And my strong feeling is the answer to that is yet, that there are mandatory reporting requirements among every institution for a reason, and a reason is, what ends up happening is not reporting leaves to serial, habitual instances. FEIGE: Absolutely. HAYES: So, that I think, let`s just be clear you have to report this stuff. FEIGE: Agree. HAYES: It`s not cool or forgiving or all in the family to just go to the pastor or whoever. FEIGE: Agreed completely. I think that is perfectly fine to report. (CROSSTALK) HAYES: It`s more than perfectly fine, required for a reason. FEIGE: Well, it`s legally required. HAYES: Yes. FEIGE: And, got it. HAYES: Now, the question -- TAYLOR: And ethically required. HAYES: And ethically required. Now, the more complicated question to me is the question of prison, right, or punishment. It does seem to me complicating in this instance. We are talking about a person who himself is a minor, 14 years old at the time this was done. FEIGE: Exactly. HAYES: Dr. Taylor, my understanding is that doesn`t -- you think that that is not sufficiently mitigating. TAYLOR: If age was an excuse for wrong behavior, we would have a lot of people who are not in jails or incarcerated right now. (CROSSTALK) HAYES: We probably should have a lot people who are not in jail or incarcerated right now, right? TAYLOR: Sexual abuse a crime. It`s a crime. It`s a criminal act. HAYES: Right. But let me just push on this for a little bit. That itself is not a substantive defense. There are people who are serving incredibly long terms who are charged as adults as 14-year-olds who I don`t think should be in there, right? I mean, it`s unclear that the juvenile justice system in particular handles this stuff well. Would you agree? TAYLOR: They do, but we have a justice system. In this case, he was fought entered it into as far as we know and that`s where the problem is. HAYES: Let me ask you this, David. FEIGE: Sure. HAYES: This is an important question, I think. I think we understand this crime as necessarily habitual and in some fundamental way as essential to the person committing it, right? FEIGE: Right. HAYES: That this is -- that people are child molesters, pedophiles who are not and if they are, they will keep doing this if you let them. What do we know about the -- what the research says about whether that`s true or not? FEIGE: Well, the research certainly suggests that if you are a pedophile, that is a -- that that is a choice and also a fact. HAYES: Yes. FEIGE: That said, as we know with all kinds of disfavored behaviors, the fact that you want to do something doesn`t mean you do it. Alcoholics don`t always drink. Smokers quit smoking. And I`m just saying -- by the way, there is no evidence whatsoever in this case that he`s done anything other than what he`s alleged to have done back then. HAYES: But that, of course, is the horrifying shoe that we are all hoping doesn`t drop because I`ve covered enough of this -- and, again, I know nothing, but I`ve covered enough of this and particularly in the context of the church where behaviors did not suddenly go away, even when people cross their fingers and hope that after father had a little time away or got a little bit of counseling or went for hard labor, I`ve read all those things before, I`ve read them in church files, that the person would come back cured. And guess what? FEIGE: They weren`t cured. HAYES: They were very much not cured. FEIGE: And it is perfectly plausible and I would hazard to suggest that if there`s anybody else out there, given the firestorm that is surrounding this whole thing, we`ll know about it soon enough. HAYES: Right. And Dr. Taylor, the other point to me here, what you talked about in terms of taboo and keeping the victims in mind, I mean, the secrecy and taboo around this is both morally appropriate and also it appears to me the kind of thing that keeps the cycle going in which people won`t report, won`t come out about it. FEIGE: Well, it keeps it going. But trauma is a major public health concern because we have victims of trauma -- of sexual abuse and trauma who have long-term sequela. They have emotional incidents. They have physical incidents. Their functioning over the long time can be severely impacted by one incident. And the reality is 10 percent of childhood and teenage sexual offenders -- 10 percent of people do not -- 90 percent do not reoffend. But you don`t know that until you do the right examination, which means looking at their underlying psychological structure, substance abuse, conflict in the family. There is so much we don`t know. We cannot excuse this behavior. HAYES: And I don`t think anyone is excusing -- I think that point, to me, is the one that sticks out here, which is like proper care was not taken in this instance in a way that is sort of horrifying to me. At the same time, I do think the fact that he was 14 and that presumably this was sealed for a reason, it was under wraps for a reason complicates things a little bit. Dr. Janet Taylor and David Feige, thank you very much. I really appreciate that. FEIGE: Glad to be here. TAYLOR: Thank you. HAYES: Still ahead, the incredibly strange behavior of a Virginia politician. Plus, the phenomenon of "Mad Max" and why it has been embraced by feminists. And up and next, the age of liberalism has dawned in America, but it might not be what we were expecting. I`ll explain. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: I saw a photo yesterday that`s been kind of sitting with me all day. It`s been sitting with me for 24 hours. When we came to the office today, I said we have to put this photo on air tonight. It is the weirdest, most unsettling photo I`ve ever seen. It`s a family portrait. It features a politician. And I would explain the context of the said photo and show you that photo so you can take in all its glory, ahead. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: All right. Right at this moment, they`re counting the votes in Ireland where something incredible happened today. For the first time in human history on this planet, a nation went to the polls to vote in a national referendum on marriage equality. It would amend the Constitution to allow same-sex couples to marry before the state. Organizers believe the turnout will be historic, massive numbers of people just in the last few days signing up. And the fact that this could even take place in the fiercely Catholic country of Ireland says something about the direction this issue is going, not just here in the U.S., but across the world, particularly in Europe. Now, here in the U.S., we`ve seen a polling reversal unlike anything I`ve ever seen in my life. Let me show you what polling on same-sex marriage looks like. Should same-sex marriage be legal? In 1996, 27 percent said yes, and 68 percent said no. Here we are in 2015 and those numbers have almost completely reversed: 60 percent now saying yes, that is an absolute record in that polling, 37 percent saying no. But while that gets a lot of attention, there`s another polling result that might be more indicative of where the nation is in terms of its general feeling on social issues. And that`s this poll. This is views on social issues. It asks people to classify themselves as very conservative, conservative, very liberal or liberal. And for the very first time in that history, the 16-year history of that poll, for the very first time, liberals and conservatives are tied. They`ve never been tied before. Back in 1999, you can see there, liberals are facing an 18 point deficit. For the last 16 years, liberals in America, the left, and the Democratic Party by extension, have been rolling a rock uphill on social issues, always on the wrong side of the so-called wedge issues, always trying to convince the skeptical public they share their values. We may be at a tipping point and I really think that is the most profound result in politics that no one is quite grappling with. Joining me now to talk about this from Oklahoma, where he`s covering the Southern Republican Leadership Conference is Tim Carney, senior political columnist at "The Washington Examiner." All right. Tim, let`s sort of stipulate for a moment, there is no connection between popularity and rightness of view, right? So, I have lots of views that are correct and unpopular. And so, let`s just separate those for a second about the actual -- whether the views are correct. Do you think this -- tell me how you feel the conservative right, people who consider themselves socially conservative understand this trajectory, particularly starting on marriage equality, but extending outward. TIM CARNEY, THE WASHINGTON EXAMINER: Well, first, it`s important to -- if you were to put up the Gallup chart about abortion numbers, there from the `90s until now, it`s mostly flat, but actually slightly moved in the pro-life direction. So, for someone like me who cares about that issue and doesn`t make marriage a real issue, that`s a place where I see on the social issues that matter, the country is becoming more conservative. But another is -- I mean, today, the main guy who talked at the Oklahoma Southern Republican Leadership Conservative about social issues was Bobby Jindal. He put it all in the context of religious freedom. And that`s what I would say is, yes. These trend lines continue. Soon, we social conservatives will be a minority. And I hope that you, Chris, as a liberal will look out for the civil rights of this minority and their conscience rights and their freedom of association and the right to live their lives and conduct their private business according to the way that they want. I think that that is certainly the case, like Christians, social conservatives are looking around saying, all right, we just want to be able to live our own lives according to our conscience. That is a view that is growing on the right. That is an emphasis that is growing on the right. HAYES: This is really key and it`s key to understanding how the trajectory of this because there`s a number of issues having to do with what I think social conservatives would say conscience issues, right? It would have to do with Supreme Court cases around birth control and the Affordable Care Act, the waiver that Notre Dame has to sign to get their religious exemption which they are contesting is an infringement of their religious liberty. And these RFRA laws, right, religious freedom, we have seen those rights rally around those the way that, say, five, ten years ago they were rallying around gay marriage issues in the United States. It`s almost like they kind of -- this is like a political retreat this bulkhead. Is that a fair assessment? CARNEY: I think it`s exactly that religious freedom protection is the way that social conservatives, especially Christians, see sort of the terms of their surrenders. OK. The idea that marriage would be defined -- (CROSSTALK) CARNEY: -- the way that marriage would be defined according to a Christian teaching on state by state levels, that`s the fight that we`re losing, mostly because of the courts, but now as you`re saying because of the polls, the public opinion that`s following it. So fine, get married, do whatever you want. Live and let live. But maybe if you`re a wedding photographer, you should be allowed to decide which photograph you shoot. Maybe if you own a store, you employ an employee, you should describe what sort of prescription drugs you`re going to pay for of her. HAYES: It also -- I think it also points from sort of descriptively why those issues are going to have tremendous salience in the campaign because that`s the place that I think Republican candidates are going to feel like they`re on more solid ground, because they have stronger public support and they can kind of create a kind of coalition between social conservatives and libertarians on those sort of more narrow issues, on sort of RFRA laws, right? You`re going to see them dig in on that. CARNEY: Yes. HAYES: I think even someone like Jeb Bush who isn`t identifying himself as a real crusader on social issues necessarily right now. CARNEY: Well, yes. And I consider myself a conservative and libertarian at the same time. And some people think that`s a contradiction. But I was telling me my libertarian friends 10 years ago, I said, in the culture wars, pretty soon, you`re going to be on our side because there are countries where the cultural right is trying to impose its morality. There are times in the U.S. history where the cultural right is trying to impose its morality. But the way it looks now is it`s that you`re not allowed to run your own wedding photography business according to your own morality if you`re conservative. And you get -- as they move more and more into the minority -- HAYES: I am judiciously -- I am judiciously not engaging the substance of that argument which I think is flawed or at least the framing of it is. But let me ask you this, how do you think people understand that question when they`re asking socially liberal and socially conservative? I think one of the things that changes is a basket of issues has changed. So I actually think they`re thinking primarily -- I think what people tend to think about now at this point, LGBT and marijuana, I think are these sort of signifiers -- CARNEY: Exactly. And those are issues that if you`re primarily thinking about, say, abortion, then I think you would get different answers. But I do think a lot of time, the term socially liberal, that does that mean? If it means live and let live, people say, you know, should gay people be allowed to get married? Should you be cool with people being gay? Should people be allowed to smoke pot? Or maybe even other harder drugs? And on those issues, that`s -- I think that increasingly if you could pull that, when you say you`re sociologically liberal, what do you mean? Because some questions, I`m a socially liberal guy, but obviously -- yes? HAYES: The key factor I think that is key in this is that the psychological turn from being a majority to being a minority on some of these issues, I think it`s going to have huge resonance on the campaign. CARNEY: And on the flip side, when the left is going from the minority to the majority, how will they behave? HAYES: Yes. Tim Carney, thank you very much. Up next, it`s bad enough when a politician impregnates his underage receptionist, even worse when he decides somehow to take one of those weird photos of his newly formed family as a way of breaking the news. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: All right. I`m going to tell you a few things that you need to know about former Virginia delegate Joe Morrissey. One, he is running for state senate as an independent after the Democratic Party rejected him from their ticket. Another is that this is the picture of the 57-year-old Morrissey with 19- year-old Myrna Pride, a former receptionist at his law office, taken on Mother`s Day. They`re joined by their 9-week-old son, Chase. They appear to be dressed in antebellum style in the South. You should also know that in December of last year, Morrissey pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor count of contributing to the delinquency of a minor in connection with an alleged relationship with pride when she was 17 years old. Both Morrissey and Pride have consistently denied their relationship began when she was under 18. Police said they found naked pictures of pride on Morrisey`s phone as well as a text message she sent to a third party that read, quote, OMG, I just f`ed my boss. Morrissey explained the texts charging that both his and Pride`s phones had been hacked. Following his plea to the lesser charge, Morrissey resigned from office as a Virginia delegate and was sentenced to six months in jail, spurring a special election for his seat. But thanks to a work release program, he was able to campaign in same said special election and was, drum roll please, re-elected to his seat, this time as an independent. He served in that role until March when he left to run for the state senate and decided to open up about his relationship with pride. And that is where the picture comes in. Morrisey, apropos of nothing, personally handed this picture of himself and Pride with the baby to a local reporter. When asked if the picture was confirmation that Chase is, indeed, his son, he said no. But this week, Morrissey decided to come clean. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of people like you in one regard, but they don`t like the fact -- and let me get through this and say it with as respectful as I can. That you come to the community and you have an affair with a young lady, produce a baby, and you walk away from it, never apologize, never say anything, no regrets. That`s Joe Morrissey. JOE MORRISSEY, VIRIGNIA STATE SENATE CANDIDATE: OK. Let`s stop right there. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. MORRISEEY: Where, Jack, in this universe do you say walk away from it? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. MORRISSEY: Walk away from it? I got up in this morning and the first person I kissed was chase. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your baby? MORRISSEY: My baby. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your son? MORRISSEY: My son. I don`t walk away from anything. I have... UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joe, have you ever admitted that publicly, your son? MORRISSEY: Everybody knows that Chase is my boy. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, but have you ever admitted it, Joe? MORRISSEY: Yes. Did it 30 seconds ago. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. MORRISSEY: I said I`d wake up in the morning... UNIDENTIFIED MALE: so, ladies and gentlemen, I think I may have a coup here, Joe Morrissey, for the first time that I know publicly admitted the boy is his son. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: All right, Morrissey again maintains he did not have sex with Pride until she was 18. And it turns out the two have big plans, which they which they announced yesterday at a press conference. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MORRISSEY: Shortly after Chase was born, Myrna let me know that she would like two and three and the fourth one. So, yes, we`ll get married. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: OK. I guess I wish them all the best, but also maybe don`t vote for this dude. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: Tonight we know what 12-year-old Tamir Rice might have been charged with if he was not shot and killed by police. Rice was shot and killed while playing with a replica pellet gun in November, just seconds after police arrived on the scene. He was pronounced dead hours later. More than six months into the investigation of his death, no charges have been filed, nothing. And now an explosive document has surfaced, first published in the Daily Kos that gives more details on the police version of events. An incident report filed a week after Tamir Rice was shot and killed classifies Rice as a suspect and lists two charges 12-year-old Rice could have faced had he not been shot and killed. The first charge is aggravated menacing, and the second inducing panic. The report also lists the state of Ohio Officer Loehmann who shot and killed rice, and Officer Garmback as victims. In a statement, Cleveland Mayor Frank Jackson`s offices reiterated Rice was never charged with the crimes listed in the report saying the document was being referred to as an incident report from that night, it is not an official charge scene. The previously unreleased document does, however, give a clue as to what officers might have charged Rice with had the case not been, quote, abated by death. Yesterday, I asked Benjamin Crump, attorney for the family of Tamir Rice for his response to the incident report. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BENJAMIN CRUMP, RICE FAMILY ATTORNEY: Chris, it`s just outrageous. The family of Tamir Rice can`t believe it when you look at that videotape that somebody would put in black and white in a police report that Tamir was at fault for his death, it just flies in the face of all common sense and, really, humanity. When you think about this child was, in less than one second, shot by the police. There was no deescalation or anything like that. If anything, the police escalated the situation. And I will tell you, Chris, it goes right in line with the answer from the city attorneys when we filed the complaint in the civil matter. You remember their response was Tamir Rice was at fault for his own death because he should have been more careful. HAYES: We are past six months since the death of Tamir Rice. The family was only recently granted custody of his body. There seems to be remarkably little progress on any kind of investigation, particularly when you compare to Baltimore where Freddie Gray, the officers that arrested Freddie Gray were charged within three weeks. What are you hearing from the sheriff`s department there about what the status of this investigation is? CRUMP: Well, the only thing we know is that they are investigating. That`s what they have continued to tell the family and the public. And it really doesn`t make sense when you compare it to Freddie Gray where they don`t have a video of the entire incident with the tragedy of Tamir Rice you have a video that captures the entire tragedy. And so you -- there`s no justification why it`s taken so long to make a decision in Tamir Rice`s case, other than if you believe they are intentionally just delaying so they can try to sweep his death under the rug. HAYES: Do you think that`s the case? CRUMP: Well, that`s normally the case. The standard operating procedure that I`ve found in cases I`ve done all over America. You just continue to sense an investigation going on, it`s an ongoing investigation, and you just keep reporting the same line until people stop asking. But people are not going to forget about Tamir Rice. This was a 12-year- old child that was killed on video and it breaks your heart every time you watch that video. HAYES: There have been reports, I believe it was about two weeks back, that Tamir Rice`s mother was in fairly dire economic straits, that she actually had found herself in a shelter. Can you give an update on the financial status of the Rice family? CRUMP: Well, there`s been an outpouring of donations and support for Tamir`s family. His mother -- you have to remember, Chris, Tamir was killed a block away from his house. Every time they walked out of their front door, they got a vivid reminder of where this tragedy took place, where she lost her baby boy. And so psychologically, it had a great effect on her and she put in for new housing and, you know, sometimes bureaucracy can take a long time to actually have her moved. And it just became too much where she said she had to get out of there and so she went to a homeless shelter. And now she`s into another apartment. And she`s trying to make it the best she can, her and her other children. But it`s extremely difficult when you have to deal with this ongoing investigation and you are still trying to greet the loss of a 12-year-old child. HAYES: All right, Benjamin Crump thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate it. CRUMP: Thank you. (END VIDEOTAPE) HAYES: Still ahead, the sprawling summer movie season has been kicked off by a feminist friendly nonstop action film Mad Max, but is there a dearth of originality in Hollywood? all In the movies up next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: Hollywood has never gotten particularly high marks on its relationship with women: how seldom good leading roles are written for women, how they are sometimes treated by the studio system, how their pay compares to that of men, but Oscar-nominated actress Maggie Gyllenhaal has shared a doozie, telling The Wrap, quote, "there are things that are really disappointing about being an actress in Hollywood that surprise me all the time. I`m 37. I was told recently I was too old to play the lover of a man who was 55. It was astonishing to me. It made me feel bad, then it made me feel angry and then it made me laugh." Which brings to mind a scene from Inside Amy Schumer, in which A-list actresses explain signs the media sees them as too old. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know how Sally Field was Tom Hank`s love interest in Punchline and then like 20 minutes later she was his mom in Forrest Gump, or you go to a movie set, you go to wardrobe and the only thing they have for you to wear are long sweaters, like cover you up head to toe kind of thing. UNIDENITFIED FEMALE: I didn`t get this commercial last week for AARP because the director said I was too old to play Larry King`s wife. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: All In the movies, next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My name is Max. My woman is fire and blood. CHARLIZE THERON, ACTRESS: What`s your name? (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: There`s more consensus on Mad Max: Fury Road than there is on global warming. Mad Max: Fury Road currently has a 98 percent rating on Rotten Tomatoes, a website that surveys hundreds of film critics. That is just one percentage point higher than the percentage of actively published climate scientists who agree that humans are causing global climate change. The movie is post Apocalyptic madness Tom Hardy taking over the role of Max from Mel Gibson due to, as Grandland suggests, Mel Gibson`s age/schedule/lingering radioactive. And Charlize Theron, who according to NRP thanked director George Miller for creating such a strong character saying, quote, "I always have this little voice in my head of George going, well now I`m going to show you a real woman." As excited as folks are for Mad Max, there are probably just as many people out there who will wait in line this holiday weekend for the remake of Poltergeist and a blockbuster starring George Clooney based on an attraction at Disneyland. Two of our favorite movie reviewers will joins me to talk about why a good original idea seems to be a scary thing for Hollywood next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: All right, joining me now, Jason Bailey, film editor at FlavorWire, and and Christopher John Farley, senior editorial director at Wall Street Journal. All right, Mad Max, you guys have both seen? Are you in the Rotten Tomatoes 98 percent? JASON BAILEY, FLAVORWIRE: Oh, yes. HAYES: No, I mean in the consensus, like the thumbs up? BAILEY: Definitely. HAYES: OK. People -- I have a theory about Mad Max. I think Mad Max in the last week has filled the void left by Mad Men in like among the like chattering critical class. BAILEY: Absolutely. HAYES: It has like -- all the stuff being written about Mad Men has now turn to go Mad Max because people who write criticism who write on the internet love this g-d movie so much. Why? BAILEY: Well, it`s a classic opportunity of an example -- you know, of a chance to see what is on the face of it pop entertainment, what is a big, expensive, blow em up action summer movie, but yet there`s all of this interesting subtext, there`s all of this stuff to dig out of it. There are so many interesting ways to look at this movie and so many things that it`s doing that you don`t expect to see when you go to the multiplex. CHRISTOPHER JOHN FARLEY, WALL STREET JOURNEY: Well, here is my Mad Men related theory. You know, like Don Draper says, nostalgia can be difficult but potent. And I think it`s what we`re seeing, it`s nostalgia for the old Mad Max back when Mel Gibson starred in it. We don`t want Mel Gibson to star in anything else anymore, so we now have Charlize Theron. She`s really the star of this film. It`s really about her. It`s really her story turned into a feminist tale. And I think this summer at the movies, women are really getting more of a chance than usual. Because look at what the number one movie has been for a while: Pitch Perfect 2. HAYES: Pitch Perfect 2 and Mad Max were the huge winners last weekend. Everyone is describing Mad Max as a feminist action movie, a feminist summer action movie. And my favorite detail is that Eve Ensler, author of -- the writer of the Vagina Monologues was a consultant on it. Why is it -- explain the feminism to me. BAILEY: I mean, basically, the journey of the film, as he said, you know, the title is what the title is. But Charlize Theron is the star of the movie. It is her story. And it a story of a woman who is helping to empower other women. HAYES: Who are basically oppressed, enslaved... BAILEY: Yeah, who are basically sex slaves. And the Eve Ensler detail seems totally weird until you see the movie when it makes absolute sense. She was brought on to consult to the manner with which they were treating victims of sexual violence. So there`s... HAYES: That is amazing. Like, someone also -- also a director actually caring in the context of like a big -- like the film, like how are we treating, you know, victims of sexual... FARLEY; I`m going to pass on explaining the feminism in it, because I think of the three guys around the table, my 9-year-old daughter can explain feminism (inaudible) she`ll probably leap through to TV and stop me. HAYES: So, the other thing about this film that I saw a number of people note, which I thought was fascinating was there`s a bunch of people talking about the effects and how non-CGI it was. And I read an interview with someone that worked on the film -- I don`t know if the director -- talking about they built all that stuff, right? There`s a guy -- there`s like a guitar player. He`s got like a fire shooting guitar, and they actually rigged up a guitar that shoots fire. These vehicles you seeing are actual vehicles that got built. And I do really think there`s something, too, like I think we have grown weary of the almost kind of like the flattening marginal returns of insane CGI effects. And that there`s -- like now there`s this incredible pop to actual physical vehicles. FARLEY: I think we do long for real danger. We know to know that stunt men and stunt women actually did something worthy of their names. If you go back and watch the original Mad Max, I mean the second one... HAYES: Someone died. FARLEY: Right -- we don`t want to see that happen. HAYES: I`d choose CGI over that. FARLEY: We don`t want to spoil anything that happens here. But it is impressive to see real things happen, because after a while, the crazy over the top CGI effects, because they risk so much, we know they`re not real. We know that can`t happen. HAYES: That`s right. That can`t happen, right. BAILEY: And we`re really seeing it I think amongst fans especially of genre films along for the return of practical effects, one of the key points that we`re in advance about the new Star Wars movie is that JJ Abrams is making a big deal of the fact that they`re using... They`re building the little robots, they`re sort of retreating from the entirely green screen world that George Lucas created in the prequels. FARLEY: But the true special effect in Mad Max really is Charlize Theron. I mean, her acting. She draws. She makes it real. She grounds it. If she`s not there, we don`t care what`s around her. HAYES: Other stuff. There`s this Tomorrowland movie that`s opening. This is a movie about a ride at Disneyland with George Clooney? Is that the (inaudible) version? BAILEY: It`s sort of vaguely inspired by the spirit of that ride, but it`s not about people going to Disneyland and getting on the ride if that`s what... HAYES: Is it any good? FARLEY: Well, here`s the thing, again, women are at the center of this. Brit Robertson, a fine young actress. She`s at the center of the film. George Clooney may be billed at the top, but it`s really her story and the story of another young actress, Raferty Cassidy who plays -- I don`t want to give it away, but she plays Athena in the movie. And she`s also quite good. So, it`s good movie to take girls to, to take your daughters to, for women to go see. It`s something different at the movie houses than we usually see over the Memorial Day weekend. HAYES: And Poltergeist, quickly? BAILEY: You`ve seen it. It`s got the... HAYES: I saw it when I Poltergeist is what you`re saying? BAILEY: Exactly. It has got the essential problem of why did they bother remake, which is they don`t bring -- it`s always going to suffer in comparison. FARLEY: Horror movies have moved on since Poltergeist was first released in 1982. This movie is still mired in 1982. People won`t care that much. HAYES: Let me say this, I haven`t seen Pitch Perfect 2, but I saw Pitch Perfect 1 on a plane, and man was that a good movie. That was a really good movie. So I want to see Pitch Perfect 2. BAILEY: It`s a huge achievement that it made that kind of return on that budget. HAYES: All right, Jason Bailey, Christopher John Farley, thanks for joining us. Have a great weekend. That is All In for this evening. THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. END