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All In with Chris Hayes, Transcript 04/28/15

Guests: Kennan Richardson, Ganesha Martin, Nico Caldwell, Chris Wilson,Brandon Scott, Tyler Dryden, Mark Fuente, Leon Taylor

CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST: Good evening from West Baltimore. I`m Chris Hayes. This is ALL IN. We are live here at the corner of North and Pennsylvania. It was this corner that just 24 hours ago yesterday was burning out of control. CVS Pharmacy with chopper shots beaming it across the country and across world -- as West Baltimore last night saw the worst unrest, looting, rioting and burning in 40 years-plus since 1968 when riots in the wake of Martin Luther King Jr. burned down much of this neighborhood and burned it for two weeks straight, ultimately calling in the National Guard, very forceful response and lives lost. Luckily, last night, no lives were lost. There were police injuries, upwards of 15 according to police. Lots of property damage, and burned cars. Today, a very, very different scene. We are right now in the epicenter of what has been the kind of protest activity all day. From beginning early today, there has been a line formed from midday today, a line form of folks standing between the crowd and the police in riot gear. The police in riot gear have kept that line now going on six, seven hours. The people in front of them, community members, linked in arm, men and women. They have kept that line going for six and seven hours. At several moments earlier today, we were here, there were a few bottles thrown. A few words exchanged. Some tensions escalating. But at every moment tension escalated, elders, protesters came in and defused. There has been a widespread consistent consensus from everyone I`ve talked to on the streets here today from the moment we touched down here in the afternoon, a determination not to see West Baltimore burn again, a determination for tonight to be different than last night, a determination for folks to be out here with young folks to make sure that some of the unruliness that happened last night does not happen again. There`s a lot of anger at the police, alongside that, a lot of anger at political leaders, alongside that. But also a tremendous sense of pride in place in this place, a tremendous determination to fight for their neighborhood. Joining me now, I have Keenan Richardson. Keenan is a resident of West Baltimore, grew up in East Baltimore. Keenan, today you organized a kind of youth peace rally just a little -- just a few blocks from here. Tell me about what that was. KEENAN RICHARDSON, BALTIMORE RESIDENT: Actually I got together with my big brother, Stokie, and he called me this morning, said, hey, it`s something we got to do. Let`s do. We got together and got the city to come out to Cloverdale Park, a very familiar basketball court by all Baltimoreans, actually world renowned. HAYES: That`s where folks run, right? RICHARDSON: Yes, definitely, definitely. You have Melo and everybody come to play. So, we organize it there, you know, as a central location for all the youth to come, you know, and voice their feelings, their emotions. Because it`s a lot of anger, a lot of tension going on right now. And we had to bring them so that they can voice their -- voice their perspective, their opinion, on everything that`s going on right now. HAYES: There`s a lot of drama. RICHARDSON: Yes. HAYES: I mean, folks are frustrated, they`re angry. People I talked to are talking about the kind of emotional weight of their life`s experiences dealing with police officers and growing up in west Baltimore. A lot of that was coming out in really, really violent negative ways yesterday. Was the idea to kind of give expression to that today, to listen to people so that we didn`t have a replay of last night? RICHARDSON: Definitely. Definitely. We don`t want no replay at all. But I will say this -- we do not condone the acts that happened last night, but we understand, like you said, it`s police brutality that`s been happening for years here in Baltimore, and especially black children as ourselves, we grew up experiencing these things firsthand. So, at the end of the day, they`re going to react in a way that, you know, nobody else really probably going to understand, except for those who are from here and those who really experience police brutality. HAYES: What do you think is going to happen today? There`s now a curfew at 10:00 p.m. there`s such an obvious determination here to not have a repeat of last night. There`s been so many community leaders out here, 10:00 p.m., a curfew happens. The question is, where does all this go? Like what happens tonight and what happens the next day? RICHARDSON: Well, I`m no fortuneteller, but at the end of the day, I honestly think all the positive voices have been heard. You know, the kids have been hearing us. And I honestly don`t believe that, you know, we`re going to have a repeat of, you know, last night tonight, or tomorrow night. But I will say, we are very impatiently waiting on this verdict. We`re very impatiently waiting, and I cannot express how -- how eager we`re, you know, we`re trying to hear -- HAYES: You want to know -- I mean, you want to know what happened to Freddie Gray in police custody that ended up in him dying. RICHARDSON: We need to know. We need to know. HAYES: How much is that -- there`s been people going back and forth about this. This is about Freddie Gray/this isn`t about Freddie Gray, this is about larger things, about hooligans being opportunistic. What is your sense of it? RICHARDSON: You know, it stemmed definitely from, you know, the Freddie Gray situation, but at the end of the day, as I stated before, there`s been a bunch of Freddie Grays that the world don`t even know about. There`s been a bunch of, you know, young guys brutalized by the police that`s not even being seen right now, or even -- or even being, you know, publicized right now. So, at the end of the day, what I`m saying to the world, what I`m saying to you, I`m saying that we`re going to react as peacefully and positively and we`re going to promote peace, positivity, and love as much as we can. But at the end of the day, we`re waiting for that verdict. And I cannot promise you that, you know, we won`t react in a manner that, you know, that they won`t understand. HAYES: Like we saw last night. All right. Keenan Richardson, thank you for coming out. Thanks for what you`re doing. RICHARDSON: I appreciate it. HAYES: I believe -- I believe we have Ganesha Martin on the phone right now, is that correct? GANESHA MARTIN, BALTIMORE POLICE DEPT. (via telephone): That`s correct. That`s correct, Chris. How are you this evening? HAYES: Ganesha, how are you? MARTIN: I`m well. HAYES: What is your sense of where things stand now today? MARTIN: Chris, I am ecstatic. I am so proud of our city. You are seeing right before your eyes what Baltimore is made of. We are proud of our city. We are proud of what we are starting to accomplish. We have come together to voice the need for peace in our city. What everyone saw last night was not representative of who we are as a city. We`ve come together. The police department, the community, and we are working together to bring peace to our city. This is what we`re made of. HAYES: There`s a lot of -- there`s a lot of frustration with the police right now. There`s a lot of frustration from folks that I heard here who said, there -- as Keenan just said, there are Freddie Grays you`ve never heard of. In fact, I had a gentleman say to me today, if Freddie Gray wouldn`t have died, it would just have been another person picked but by the police and injured in police custody. They would have shrugged even here in West Baltimore because they`re so acclimated to it. MARTIN: Chris, the police commissioner has acknowledged that there is a huge risk and a huge distrust between the police and the community. And as a matter of fact, that`s the reason why the mayor brought him here, the recognition that something has to change. The community members, when they were given a voice as to what type of police commissioner they wanted to see in their city, it was one that understood and listened to the community and tried to heal these wounds. Now, these wounds did not -- were not created overnight. It`s been decades and decades of mistrust. And the schism has just grown larger. But since the police commissioner has been here on his daily basis, he has made it his goal to try to repair that relationship from having our officers go out to schools to read to the kids, for creating a summer camp for kids this past summer where we said to kids, lunch, breakfast, did activities, self-esteem. We brought in our community members, many of which stood with us today here at the police headquarters, where the police commissioner has started involving community members in promotional panels. So, you can become a major or a captain here without a member of the - - HAYES: With all due respect -- (CROSSTALK) MARTIN: -- that`s clear, from the protests, people are expressing their frustration, their hurt, their anger and distrust with us, but we have made some strides and what I hope to do from this, what the police commissioner hopes to take from this is to take this tragedy and turn it into a triumph, that we come together the way you`re seeing our citizens and police on the streets. And come up with solutions, long-lasting sustainable solutions to help us heal our city and help us reach our greatest potential. HAYES: There -- all of that said, and obviously the Baltimore Police Department has undergone a lot of community outreach and community programs. Those can happen parallel to some of the kind of basic everyday indignities that people have been reporting to me and, frankly, have been reporting to the press where you have $5.7 million in settlements over police brutality in just a three-year sequence and you now have a man who`s dead. Sixteen, 17 days later we don`t know how he died. When will people find out what happened to Freddie Gray? MARTIN: Well, what you have right now, Chris, the police commissioner has demanded of this organization to take a process that normally goes from anywhere from four to eight months and condense that as best as possible into three weeks. I will tell you that I`ve said in several briefings at, you know, 11:00, 12:00 at night, he has formed a task force where people are working around the clock to come up with the answers that we need. We`re continuing to canvas, we`re reviewing hundreds of hours of tapes. We want to know as much as the community does what happened to Freddie Gray. We want to know why because we cannot abide by having our community members hurt, and if somebody`s responsible for that, we have to do something about that. The police commissioner in his 10 years since he`s been here has pushed people out to retirement. He has arrested officers. He has done what he has to do to try to get rid of the officers that bring down the credibility of the men and women, the ones you have seen out there every day exercising restraint in the face of rocks and spit and all sorts of things being hurled at them. He wants those officers -- I tell you, we had a couple of officers in our lobby today, or rather people that wanted to apply to be officers, and the police commissioner went over there, he says, if you`re not here to be humble, if you`re not here to serve, if you are not here to better this community, then I don`t want you as an officer. And so, what his -- HAYES: Ms. Martin, can you tell me -- can you tell me -- I`m sorry. Can you tell me what the plan for a curfew is tonight? In previous places, I`ve been in when a curfew was imposed, it can become a kind of flashpoint of conflict, a little bit of a stare-down can ensue. What is the game plan for the 10:00 p.m. curfew tonight? MARTIN: So, I talked to the police commissioner, especially in light of all the good vibes that we`re having right now in the community and the peace, the peaceful protests we`ve had, what he said is obviously the curfew will begin at 10:00. What we have to keep in mind is this, and you`ve seen this, we had peaceful protests, you know, all day, and then we had some people who were bent on destruction and violence determined to do that as night fell. So, the police commissioner is up in the watch center. He is watching the movements of the crowd to ensure that we deploy and do what we need to do, but as far as the curfew goes, he is going to -- he is going to institute a balanced approach. People do need to respect the curfew and not be on the streets. But we are going to exercise restraint and common sense in how we treat our citizens when we`re dealing with enforcing the curfew. HAYES: We see a lot of riot police here, although it`s actually a fairly restrained presence. We`ve got a riot line that`s been here. There`s some tactical vehicles, there`s some reinforcements several blocks away. I mean, I guess the question is, is there an anticipation that they will then move in and try to disperse at 10:00, or will they kind of make dynamic decisions based on what the kind of atmosphere is like? MARTIN: I believe the police commissioner`s thoughts are that we`ll start talking to the crowd asking them to respect the curfew. We anticipate that the citizens that have been there peaceful and have obeyed lawful orders all day will continue to do so when they`re told about the curfew. And then if for some reason there are people that do not want to comply, then we`ll deal with them in a reasonable manner. But my anticipation is that people will have been out. They`ve been able to speak in protests. About 10:00 they probably want to go home, anyway. So, that`s why we made it at such a late hour. And if there`s anyone out there that decides to stay on the streets and -- and participate in any violence or destruction, we have the resources out there to deal with those people. HAYES: All right. Ms. Martin, thank you very much for all your time tonight. I really do appreciate it. Appreciate it very much. Coming up next, we have Joy Reid. She spent all day at a Baltimore church. There`s a town hall happening there. She will give you the latest. We are here as night falls here in West Baltimore, a very different scene than last night. Stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: All right. We`re back here in Baltimore as sun is setting here on the West Baltimore, at North and Pennsylvania, right at the site yesterday of the worst burning. Community members out tonight singing, drumming, praying, chanting, determined not to see what happened last night happen again tonight. Joy Reid joins me now. She`s at the Empowerment Baptist Church. And, Joy, you just heard a police representative describing the police`s posture tonight. Does that jive with what you`re seeing? JOY REID, MSNBC NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Again, Chris, I can`t quite hear you. I heard the first part of your question. I was listening to the police representative. But I can tell you, Chris, behind me at the Empowerment Temple in a packed house, town hall meeting what`s happening here, what we`re hearing is very emotional testimony. A very young girl got up and wound up in tears talking about the treatment that police have visited on members of her family, her friends, her schoolmates. There was just a woman who just finished speaking who said essentially the same thing, saying how can we continue to exist if the police keep killing us and killing all of our African-American men? Extremely emotional. People really are angry, and I don`t hear a lot of what your guest was just talking about in these sort of initiatives and programs. People have been telling me all day that there are no community centers, there are no rec centers. This church has been open all day having to feed people, feed kids who are out of school. There is no YMCA for them to go to, no Boys and Girls Club. So, there`s a real sense, I think, of need in this community and the feeling that both civic leaders as well as the police, quite frankly, have ill-served the community. I have heard nothing but the kind of stress and distress that is going on behind me right now. HAYES: Joy, there`s kind of a big disconnect, I feel like, between how the police are sort of talking about those community outreach efforts and what is kind of -- what people, folks even right here are saying to me about there`s more than one Freddie Gray, there are so many of these. There`s a real question about both what happened to Freddie Gray and also what just happens more broadly with the Baltimore police in this neighborhood. REID: Yes, absolutely. Chris, you mentioned the $5.7 million in settlements just in the last three years, just for over 100 cases. What you hear from people here, those are the ones that we know about. There was a young man this morning during the part of the day when they were taking care of high school students and letting them basically stay here all day. This young man who had to have been about 18 years old, he got up and he described Freddie Gray as essentially the usual and he expressed the fear that, you know, that a year from now, no one will even remember. There were young people who got up and talked about Trayvon Martin. You know, that trauma is still live in the hearts of young people that were here in this church. And these were kids who are churched and actually have the connection to the faith community. You can just imagine, you go outside of here and kids feel a greater sense of disconnect. I will say one thing, Chris, that reinforces what you were saying earlier. There`s a definite sense of empowerment that I am getting amid that kind of despair. People have decided to seize control of their destiny. This church is saying we`re going to do it ourselves. You have people who are really not necessarily looking to police to fix things. They`re trying to empower themselves. They definitely feel, I think, a sense that there is no relationship. It`s not a bad relationship. It`s a non-relationship. I think the police have a long way to go to try to get the trust of the people I`m hearing behind me. HAYES: Joy, thank you so much for that. We will be right back with much more live from the streets of Baltimore. Don`t go anywhere. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: All right. We`re back on the streets of Baltimore. I`ve got to say, as we`ve been here, as the camera lights come on, folks have a lot to say. They feel very angry, they feel upset, feel indignant about what happened last night. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. HAYES: They don`t want to see what happened last night happen again but they don`t want to lose sight. Duwan (ph), you wanted to talk to me. What`s your name? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I did. My name is Duwan. And this is not about last night, goes on years, it goes back. We want justice and not just justice for Freddie, Michael, Emmett Till, it goes on. Like you`re criticizing us like we`re hurt inside. We live here. You come and visit and see what`s going on. We live in this city and we hurt. We go through stuff every day, every day. This is the life. We deal with this every day. Just because we react, you all want to criticize us? Don`t do that. We black. Come on, now. We the same skin. That`s all I`m saying. Don`t criticize our youth. We messed up inside. That`s all I want to say, we messed up inside. HAYES: What do you mean by that? When you say "messed up inside", what do you mean? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We hurt. Killed another black man. Not just one black man, it`s more. I can`t count on my fingers. It`s more. It`s more. It`s more. And y`all just come down, bring the National Guard. Why the National Guard? For what? We don`t need (INAUDIBLE). We messed up inside. That`s all it is anger. That`s all it is anger. And I just want to say, don`t criticize us. Get us coming together as blacks. See everybody together? Blacks. We`re working together right now. Everybody is working together at the moment. HAYES: All right, Duwan. Thank you very much, man. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m done? I got a lot, man. I got this -- I`m going to go to Rehema Ellis. I`m going to go to Rehema Ellis. That was -- I heard a lot of that today out here. I heard a lot of that today. A lot like that. People got a lot of stories to tell. Rehema Ellis, Rehema, you were following folks out here earlier this morning cleaning up. Tell me what you saw today. REHEMA ELLIS, NBC NEWS: I saw a lot of people coming together in a community that says they want to be remembered for their cohesiveness and rather than their divisiveness. They want to be remembered for something that`s positive rather than something that`s destructive. So, they decided to take matters into their own hands and not wait for the sanitation crews to come out onto their streets, and instead, people got their own plastic bags, their own brooms, their own dust pans and they went out onto their own streets and they cleaned up and they did it as a cohesive group. And they were very, very sorrowful about what they had seen. And one of the things that always strikes me and I think it was striking for people now in the city of Baltimore, versus other cities where we`ve seen this kind of violence erupt, is that people know that there was somewhat a tinderbox of possibility that this could happen. But still, they`re still surprised when it does because this is where they live. That CVS that was burnt, women stood in front of that CVS today. I saw them. They were just hunched over huddling with one another weeping over the fact that they had spent years trying to get a CVS -- not CVS, but a pharmacy in their neighborhood. They finally got one. And now, it was burned. It was ransacked and they don`t have -- a man said now I don`t have any place to go and get the medicine for my baby in the middle of the night. This was a heartbreaking scene for so many people, and yet, again, that`s not what they want to be remembered for. Not the heartache, but the fact that they do have the willingness and the strength to come together and to say, even in the face of where there seems to be hopelessness, they have hope -- Chris. HAYES: Rehema Ellis, thank you very much. We`ll have much more live from the streets of west Baltimore. Sun is setting here. A 10:00 p.m. curfew looms in the distance, although a determination among everything here to keep things chill. Stick around. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: There`s been a lot of talk here in Baltimore about gang activity. There was a statement put out by the police department yesterday, a credible threat from some of the major gangs in Baltimore. Lot of people I talked to here were talking about how gang members had actually played a very constructive role interrupting acts of vandalism and violence last night. I want to go now to my colleague, Toure, who`s got some more on that - - Toure. TOURE: Yeah, Chris. I`m here with Nico Caldwell, who is a Blood. He`s a lifelong Baltimorean. And you and your group are promising peace tonight? NICO CALDWELL, BLOOD MEMBER: We`re definitely promising peace tonight. We weren`t founded on an idea of destruction. We were founded on an idea or protecting our neighborhoods and the citizens of our neighborhoods. TOURE: How far are you willing to go to make sure that it`s peaceful tonight? CALDWELL: Well, we`ve been keeping the peace all day. So we`re stopping -- we`re blocking people who throw bottles at police officers. We`re blocking them making lines and grabbing the persons that are involved in the crimes that they`re trying to commit against the police. We don`t want that. We want peace. We don`t want anymore police hurting anyone else. TOURE: We heard the Crips and Bloods are actually working together in this peace initiative. How did that happen? How did the two groups come together? CALDWELL; Well, the two groups came together because of the death of Freddie Gray. I went to school with Freddie Gray at Way Mace LaMell Middle School (ph) here in Baltimore, Maryland, on the west side. And based on ideologies that the Bloods and Crips were founded upon, we decided to go back to our roots because we`re tired of the harm that these police are giving us on a daily basis. We don`t want that anymore, so we decided to unite. And for the record, everyone in the United States that`s a Blood or a Crip that has a certain type of beef amongst each other, I want you all to squash that and unite, unite, because we need each other. TOURE: Now, wait a minute, there were reports the Blood and the Crips were out to get the cops who went against the cops last night. Is that true? CALDWELL: No, that is definitely not true, because me personally, we were protecting a phone store up the street. There were about nine Bloods and a few Crips standing in front of the store protecting the store making sure no one went in that store and stole anything. And the police threw a grenade at us to make sure that we scattered. That`s not true. We don`t want any problems with the police. We don`t want anyone else hurt. We don`t want anyone shooting. We don`t want anything. We want a cease-fire. We don`t want any problems. We were not the cause. We were the same ones protecting this neighborhood that we`re standing in right now, protecting these store, making sure people don`t loot them and pollute them and doing the things they were doing. They were stealing and everything. But we made sure some of the stores were protected. TOURE: Now let me go back to something you said a second ago. You knew Freddie? CALDWELL: Yes, I knew Freddie. TOURE: What was Freddie Gray like? CALDWELL: Well, I haven`t seen Freddie Gray for a few some years, because I went to middle school with him. But judging by his middle school that he was a funny guy. He wasn`t really into the streets. He was a good person. He didn`t deserve to die. TOURE: It would shock a lot of people I think to hear about the Crips and the Bloods working against people for peace. That goes against what a lot of Americans think of when they think of Crips and Bloods. CALDWELL: Well, Crips and Bloods, despite the history we have of committing violence, there`s always a story to that. Always. It doesn`t matter what gang we identify with, you can be a civilian out on the streets and commit a harmful act towards another individual. Us Bloods and Crips, some of us have made a wrong choice and deciding to join a gang, but honestly, certain people like me, for example, at the times that we joined these gangs, we didn`t have families and they were our only family. So, I ask America not to judge us for what we are. Just know that everything we do right here, everything we do is not always a bad thing. TOURE: All right. That`s Nico Caldwell. He`s a Blood. He`s a lifelong Baltimorean. He says that the Bloods and the Crips are working together to create peace tonight. Back to you, Chris. HAYES: Toure, thank you. I want to bring in now Chris Wilson who works with young, does workforce development, works with young people here in Baltimore, works with folks that are involved in gangs. Chris, we just heard from a member of the Crips talking about -- or of a blood, talking about the Crips and Bloods having a kind of cease-fire in the midst of this, attempting to kind of keep order. Have you heard the same thing? CHRIS WILSON, WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT: Yes. My experience in the city, that most of the people that`s in gangs or affiliated gangs, are just equally upset about what`s going on about Mr. Gray, his loss. And the rumors about gangs coming together to target law officials like I don`t think that`s true. That hasn`t been my experience working in the community in my conversations... HAYES: Chris, these -- the gangs in Baltimore have obviously caused a lot of bloodshed, a lot of violence. There has been a source of a lot of havoc on the streets. What is the way forward, do you think, when you talk to young people about how you transform the basic facts on the ground in which gangs provide order in a place that often lacks order other than the order of a police force that comes in? WILSON: Right. I think it`s also important to frame the relationship with gangs in our community, like these gangs were formed because, you know, society for the most part ostracized these groups and people come together to look out for each other. Like their interest is in taking care of themselves, their families and it`s not necessarily about harming others. So I think that the way forward is for, you know, society to provide pathways for these people to step out of this lifestyle and gain jobs and go to school and things like that. I feel like that`s the way out. HAYES: Chris, I`ve heard conversations -- I grew up in the Bronx. My father is a community organizer in the Bronx in the 1980s when basically the entire borough of the Bronx was burning down. I`ve heard people talking about workforce development, pass out jobs. I`ve heard that for 30 years. I`ve heard people talking about it on the west side of Chicago. I`ve heard people talk about it in the Bronx. I`ve heard people talk about it here in Baltimore or in Philadelphia. And here we are in 2015 and the incarceration rate and the unemployment rate in a neighborhood like this, basically as high as they`ve ever been. WILSON: Right. I agree with that. I think that`s a good point. And I think the way we need to move forward is to try something different. You know, just the whole workforce development -- I think we need to focus more on entrepreneurship and creating the business that allows the opportunity to provide jobs for this particular population. I think that what`s going on right now, that we should focus on the issues that brought these people here which is police brutality and inequality in our social systems here, and I think this is also an opportunity for our leadership to do something different. Like these issues are happening all over the country. Here`s the opportunity for our leadership to do something different, to change policies, to create job opportunities for this particular population. HAYES: All right. Chris Wilson, thank you very much. We`ll be back with much more live after this. Don`t go anywhere. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: All right. I want to bring in Councilman Brandon Scott who represents District 2, north and southeast Baltimore. Councilman, you are quite frustrated, angry last night in talking about what was going on. What`s your feeling almost 24 hours later? BRANDON SCOTT, BALTIMORE CITY COUNCILMAN: I`m still quite angry, and still quite frustrated, but I`m in a little better mood today because I spent the day out walking with my guys 300 men marched walking from East Baltimore to West Baltimore and back again talking to folks, interceding when there are issues, telling folks that we have to restore order and take control of our neighborhoods again. HAYES: Are you convinced that this situation is being handled the best way it possibly could by both the mayor and the governor? SCOTT: From what I can -- what I saw out there today, I think it`s been handled as best as possible. I`m not going to Monday morning quarterback, but also I wasn`t out there looking and critiquing today. I was out there today not just as a council member, but as a citizen, as a man in this community trying to step up and do my duties as a man to protect women and children, protect neighborhoods in this city. So I wasn`t out there looking as a government official and critiquing. I was out there as a citizen today. HAYES: Are there efforts being undertaken tonight to try to sort of go out and bring the evening to a calm resolution, given the curfew that is set to kick in at 10:00 p.m.? SCOTT: That`s what we were doing all day today. And we just hope that has an impact. We hope that has an impact and we hope we don`t have any issues. We think that folks are starting to get the message of peacefulness. We saw little children out there today cleaning up their neighborhood -- women, old ladies, old men, young people, college students. So that is the great thing. That is Baltimore. And I want everyone to know, that is the true Baltimore. Baltimore is known as Charm City, and the charm in Baltimore are the people. HAYES: All right. Councilman Brandon Scott, thank you very much for your time tonight. I really appreciate it. SCOTT: Thank you. HAYES: All right. We have got a lot of folks here who have a lot to say. I want to bring in this young lady. What`s your name? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ranita. HAYES: Ranita, where are you from? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am from Washington, D.C.. And I`ve living in Baltimore attending college, Morgan State University. HAYES: You go to Morgan State. You`ve been out here. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, sir. HAYES: What do you think about what`s going on today? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, what I feel is that we are in a neighborhood where a lot of of these people are oppressed. They have limited resources and they do not really have a good sense of how to channel their energy and their frustrations. Their frustrations are stemming from a long history of injustices that they`ve been subjected to and now they are acting out. HAYES: But I`ve heard that. And I think that`s -- a lot of people who would agree with you. But I also feel like a lot of people, what that gentleman was saying to me before is, Freddie Gray died, people got angry, they got upset. We saw what happened yesterday after the funeral. People only are paying attention now because we burnt some things down. Now you`re here and these camera lights and I am going to go home, and everyone from the national media is going to go home, and college students might graduate and leave. And then what? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, that`s the problem. We need to continue and focus on the positive things because at the bottom line, we need a change to come from this. We are out here. We are protesting, but what we need is laws to be changed because innocent lives are being lost. And it shouldn`t take looting to bring you guys out here when this is something that`s going on in our Baltimore streets on a day- to-day basis. So a lot of times the media, you guys are here to cover the negative looting. However, what about the positives? Today people are out here collectively working together and collaborating as a community. HAYES: Yeah, there`s been a lot of collaboration today. Thank you very much. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you so much. HAYES: Mayor Rawlings-Blake actually has had a few different bills that she`s working with in the state legislature around police reform. There was a body camera piece of legislation that has hit stumble blocks. There`s also been some pushes for more transparency in police investigations. We should note that as of now, the City of Baltimore is completely almost entirely in the hands of the Democratic Party. It`s largely in the hands of local elected African-American leadership. Some of the disconnects that we cited if places like Ferguson, or even cited in a place like North Charleston, which is a place that went for Barack Obama by 75 percent and has a white Republican mayor who`s been there for almost two decades, those kinds of political disconnects, those kinds of gaps between the people doing the representing and the people represented, they aren`t really quite as in effect here in Baltimore. And that`s led to a lot of very interesting conversations, a lot of interesting critiques of local leadership, of what`s been going on in this city. We will be back with much more live. Don`t go anywhere. After this. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: Some of the best investigative reporting into police misconduct and police brutality in the whole country has been done here in Baltimore by the Baltimore Sun into the Baltimore Police Department. We`re going to talk to an investigative reporter who works that beat along with a retired Baltimore Police Officer who worked for decades on these streets. That`s right after this break. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: All right. I want to bring into the conversation Mark Fuente is an investigative reporter for the Baltimore Sun, which as I said has done some really stellar investigative reporting into the Baltimore Police Department. And Leon Taylor, who is a retired Baltimore Police Officer who worked for years. Maybe, Leon, I can start with you. I know you`re a veteran of the Baltimore Police Department, and I got to tell you, talking to people here, there was not a lot of positive feeling toward the Baltimore Police Department, and not just among people that folks watching at home might describe as young ruffians or hooligans but a wide array of folks. When you hear people talking about the Baltimore Police Department as, quote, going hunting in the neighborhood or jacking people up, how does that make you feel? What is your response to that having worked on that side of the blue line? LEON TAYLOR, RETIRED BALTIMORE POLICE OFFICER: I think it`s not exactly accurate. I think there are times in policing that you have to be aggressive, but what`s not being said, or what`s not being noticed is that a lot of police officers on the force are Baltimore residents. I know quite a few officers that are natives of Baltimore and work and live in the same areas that are troubled in the city -- West Baltimore, East Baltimore. So I think Baltimore is different. It`s very unique in that there`s always a connection to the community. HAYES: Mark, obviously the Baltimore Sun ran this pretty incredible investigative series about brutality in the department, but there`s a lot of folks who say, well, you can, you know, point your finger at any major urban police department in America and turn up something that wouldn`t look that different. Do you have a sense there`s something particular about the Baltimore Police Department or are we just looking at a particularly acute example of the conflicts of modern urban policing and the war on drugs? MARK FUENTE, BALTIMORE SUN: Well, I think Baltimore is a little bit different than what you just described in their own strategic plan that they put out in 2013 they noted that discipline has never been a priority within this organization. This is a large urban police department. There`s a lot of problems in most urban cities. But as our undue force series pointed out, there was a lot of heavy handed officers and the city paid millions of dollars, a lot of folks had injuries and questionable arrests where people were never charged with a crime. And this kind of mirrors the Freddie Gray case where people want to know, what was he stopped for, what led to the foot chase? Where was the probable cause? The mayor of this city has questioned the exact same thing. HAYES: Leon, when you -- when you hear people talking about the Freddie Gray case, I mean, there`s a real just genuine desire for answers aside for whatever frustration people -- and anger people have at the police. I mean, what do you make of this when we have a guy who suffers a spinal cord injury in police custody and we still don`t know what happened? TAYLOR: Well, I think what`s important right now is to wait and let the investigative process play out. I mean, we also have officers that suffer injuries making arrests. That`s not to excuse anything because as with anyone else, we don`t know the entire facts of the case. But it does happen. Injuries do occur while making arrests. And it`s just a part of life in policing in Baltimore. You know, both parties get injured when there`s a subject that flees from the police. It`s unfortunate. It`s always unfortunate. It`s extremely unfortunate that it resulted in a death or serious injury. HAYES: Let me ask you this, having worked in the Baltimore Police Department, are you confident that if someone in that department saw something incriminating, saw something that shouldn`t have been done to Freddie Gray, if, in fact, that`s what happened and we don`t know, but if a member of the Police Department saw something, they would come forward and they would blow the whistle on that? Can you be confident that would happen? TAYLOR: I think it`s happened before. It`s happened several times that I know of. When there`s any impropriety, when something is done in the line of policing that compromises the integrity of other officers, in a city like Baltimore where you can`t escape the community because you`re deeply entrenched in it, I think that it behooves an officer their personal safety even to come forward and state the facts of the case as they know it. HAYES: Mark, can you give us a sense, quickly, if will have been major changes in the trajectory of this department under Commissioner Batts and under this mayor? FUENTE: They have made some changes. Reform has been slow. After our series was published, they asked the DOJ to come in and reform it. They developed a force investigative team prior to that to investigate excessive force cases. They vowed to curb misconduct. They say they`re on the right path. But on the flip side, there was 156 lawsuits filed in 2013 and 2014 going through the system right now for similar accusations. HAYES: All right. Mark Fuente from the Baltimore Sun, Leon Taylor, retired Baltimore Police Department officer. Thank you, gentlemen both, really appreciate it. We will be back with more live from Baltimore right after this. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: All right. We`re almost at an hour until the curfew kicks in here in Baltimore that`s been set for 10:00 p.m. Lots of folks here on the street, but it`s a pretty chill atmosphere. Tyler Dryden is a student here in Baltimore. What do you make of this scene here right now? TYLER DRYDEN, STUDENT: I think that, you know, we`re just being as peaceful as possible. We`re pretty angry about everything that`s been going on in the city and around the world, you know, for a very long time. But, you know, we want to see something change. We want to -- we want to see, you know, police be held accountable. We want to see mayors be held accountable. You know, that`s ridiculous. I`m originally from Brooklyn, New York, and we deal with the same thing there. And I just think that it`s a shame that we have to, you know, black men keep getting killed like it`s nothing. HAYES: Do you feel like the president, President Obama today spoke about this, and do you feel like he -- he said that basically this isn`t new, we`re just seeing it more now. You think that`s true? DRYDEN: Yeah, yeah, definitely. I like that he said that. But I don`t feel like he advocated for our people as well as he should. But I do appreciate the fact that he actually -- he let it be known that, you know, it`s been going on for a long time. HAYES: Are you confident tonight is going to kind of come to a quiet resolution? DRYDEN: You know, it probably will. But the thing is that a lot of times, the people that are doing these violent acts, they`re not protesters, they`re juvenile children. You know? HAYES: Right. DRYDEN: So you can`t -- you can`t -- you can`t hold the child accountable, you know, for violent acts when they`re mad. It`s not all of us. HAYES: Yeah. OK. Well, thank you, Tyler. I appreciate it, man. All right. Night has fallen here in Baltimore. It`s been a long day, a lot of cleanup activities, a lot of town halls, activation of community leaders. People have been out in the streets. There`s been drums and horn sections. There`s been street preachers. There`s been bullhorns. There`s been DJs. There`s been music. There`s been prayer circles. There has been a lot of people in the street trying to hold things together in the wake of last night when I think people in the neighborhood saw a little vision of something that they really did not want to see repeated. And that has been basically unanimous. What`s also been almost nearly unanimous is some sense of understanding of where the anger came from that led to last night and continued anger and frustration with the fact that here we are more than two weeks after Freddie Gray, 25 years old, was stopped by Baltimore police for reasons that we still don`t know. Freddie Gray was put into a police van. On a videotape we have, that he was in that police van for 45 minutes to an hour. And in that time, it -- we know he suffered some kind of spinal injury, that spinal injury led him to fall into a coma, to go to a hospital where he would die. And here we are more than two weeks after that day when what was basically just an everyday occurrence in West Baltimore turned into the death of this young man. There are still very, very few answers about what happened to him. Stay with us for much more live coverage. Rachel Maddow in New York now picks it up. THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. END