Summary
U.S. Defense Secretary, Lloyd Austin, is traveling to Europe Tuesday to meet with NATO allies after seeing a dramatic acceleration of Russian forces at Ukraine`s border. Meantime, a former Trump attorney is attempting to shield more than 10,000 pages of emails from the Jan. 6th committee. It comes as Trump`s longtime accounting firm cuts ties with the former President and calls the last decade of his financial statements "unreliable." Canada`s Prime Minister takes the rare step of invoking emergency powers to end protests over vaccine mandates.
Transcript
LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: And the Merrick Garland Justice Department has so far taken no action against Mark Meadows. That is tonight`s "LAST WORD." THE 11TH HOUR starts now.
[23:00:25]
CHRIS JANSING, MSNBC HOST: Good evening, once again, I`m Chris Jansing. Day 391 of the Biden administration. And there is growing concern tonight about the tense situation in Eastern Europe.
U.S. officials warned that Russia is in a position to invade Ukraine at any moment amid a dramatic acceleration of Russian forces at Ukraine`s border. U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin is scheduled to travel and meet with NATO allies in Belgium, Poland and Lithuania this week to discuss those ongoing tensions.
Today, Pentagon Press Secretary John Kirby said Vladimir Putin is still adding to his military capabilities.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: He continues to advance his readiness should he choose to go down a military path here and it should he choose to invade again. He is doing all the things you would expect him to do to make sure he`s ready for that option.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JANSING: But even as Russia bolsters its troops and resources, the Kremlin is also striking a noticeably different rhetorical tone. The New York Times reports quote, in stage managed televised meetings, the Kremlin sent its strongest signals yet that it would seek further negotiations with the West rather than launch immediate military action. I believe that our possibilities are far from exhausted Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said referring to Russia`s negotiations with the West, I would propose continuing and intensifying them.
NBC News Chief foreign correspondent Richard Engel brings us the latest on where the crisis stands from Ukraine tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
RICHARD ENGEL, NBC NEWS CHIEF FOREIGN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With diplomacy going nowhere, this is not a good sign. Russian troops in Belarus practicing urban combat. U.S. officials say this week is critical declaring Russia is now able to attack with little or no warning. So the U.S. is now moving its embassy personnel out of the Capitol to Western Ukraine, a move criticized by Ukraine`s President Zelensky suggesting it showed weakness.
And tonight, Zelensky was dismissive of U.S. intelligence that Russia could soon invade, which he says causes panic. They tell us February 16 will be the day of the attack. We will make this a day of unity, he said. His aides later said he was referring to recent media reports.
Meanwhile, Ukraine`s ambassador to the UK is walking back comments that Ukraine might forego its bid to join NATO a key Russian demand.
This weekend President Biden spoke with President Putin no breakthroughs. Russia says it won`t invade. But in Ukraine, some families are getting ready for war. Training to handle an AK-47 is Valentina Constantinovska, a 79-year-old retired accountant and a great grandmother.
(on camera): You think you are to actually be doing this? Yes, if Putin will come I should be able to shoot she says.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
JANSING: Our thanks to NBCs Richard angle for that report.
Also tonight the select committee investigating January 6 is facing pushback from a key player in the legal effort to overturn the 2020 election. Attorney and Trump ally John Eastman is attempting to shield more than 10,000 pages of e-mails from the committee claiming attorney client privilege. We`ll have a lot more on what this means for the investigation later in the hour.
Meantime, there are new developments in the civil investigation into the President`s former president`s company. The Trump Organization`s longtime accounting firm Mazars USA said a decade`s worth of financial statements from the Trump organization can no longer be viewed as reliable.
According to a publicly disclosed letter released by the New York Attorney General, the firm also said it will no longer work with the Trump Organization. In a statement the Trump Organization said it was disappointed Mazars had chosen to part ways but added quote, the letter confirms that after conducting a subsequent review of all prior statements of financial condition, Mazars work was performed in accordance with applicable accounting standards and principles, and that such statements of financial condition do not contain any material discrepancies. This confirmation effectively renders the investigations by the DA and AG moot.
While all this is happening, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau took the unprecedented step today of declaring a national public order emergency to end protests over vaccine mandates. Over the weekend, the major border crossing between the U.S. and Canada reopened after police cleared protesters who essentially shut down the major trade corridor for roughly a week. We`ll bring you more details On the situation in Canada and protests elsewhere later tonight.
[23:05:05]
With that, let`s bring in our leadoff guests on this Monday night, Peter Baker, chief White House correspondent for The New York Times who previously served as Moscow bureau chief for The Washington Post. Courtney Subramanian, White House correspondent for USA Today, and Jeremy Bash, former chief of staff at the CIA and the Pentagon. Thanks to all of you for being here tonight.
Peter, what are you hearing from the White House tonight? Jake Sullivan warned an invasion could be happening any day now. Where do things stand? How has the situation evolved?
PETER BAKER, THE NEW YORK TIMES CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think they still are worried that this could happen any day now. Obviously, they`ve been trying to in some ways get ahead of the Russians by flagging information about false flag possible operations in order to deny the Russians the ability to create a pretext for an invasion.
But this move of the embassy from, you know, from Kyiv to Lviv is obviously a serious action and reflects of genuine concern on the part of administration that military action may be imminent. There`s not very -- there`s a lot of skepticism here in Washington about the statements he played earlier from Lavrov, Sergei Lavrov, the foreign minister, and Putin that that`s that was just a way of, you know, in effect, fooling the West while they finish up their operational preparations for any possible action.
Nobody knows for sure, if Vladimir Putin decided to pull the trigger. But there`s a lot of belief here in Washington, that`s what`s on the on the table, and it`s about to happen, potentially in the next few days.
JANSING: Is that the general feeling in Washington, Courtney, that there really isn`t any diplomatic offering for Putin at this point?
COURTNEY SUBRAMANIAN, USA TODAY WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, I think that the flurry of activity you saw at the White House today really underscores just the level of concern about a possible attack. As early as this week, we saw the President hold a phone call with British Prime Minister Boris Johnson. This, of course, follows this weekend calls with Putin and Zelensky. And you heard from Pentagon spokesman John Kirby today, emphasizing the Administration`s position that they don`t know if Putin has made up his mind on invading, but that they`re taking steps as if Russia is planning to invade.
And, you know, as you mentioned, we heard from national security, Jacob Sullivan over the weekend, and he was up on the hill briefing senators and had a meeting earlier with House members and the tone following those meetings were was grim.
So I think the question of will Russia invade? The White House is saying we still don`t know the answer to that question. But question of can Russia invade? The answer is clear to U.S. officials, and that could come sometime this week.
JANSING: Among all the activity, Jeremy that we`re seeing from this administration, the U.S. has been declassifying intelligence, including of course, as you know, warnings of false flags, including that the U.S. said Russia could release that fake video as a pretext for an invasion.
This is what the New York Times points out, quote, The extraordinary series of disclosures unfolding almost as quickly as information is collected and assessed has amounted to one of the most aggressive releases of intelligence by the United States since the Cuban Missile Crisis, current and former official say.
Do you agree with that, Jeremy, what do you think of this strategy? What might it accomplish?
JEREMY BASH, FMR. CIA CHIEF OF STAFF: Yes, I agree completely, Chris. This is one of the most comprehensive and quick declassification strategies I`ve ever seen an executive branch team employ. I think the Biden team is actually winning this phase of the conflict. And this is a phase of the conflict it`s known in military parlance as phase zero actually, before the shooting starts. And there`s an old adage military strategy at phase zero is the most decisive phase.
And the way the Biden ministration has been approaching this as they`ve been constraining Putin`s options by releasing all this information, maintaining Western alliance unity, constraining the ability of Putin to claim that he was invited in where there was some pretext or provocation that necessitate his military invasion.
And in so doing, it`s I think, deterred Putin. It`s given the West Time to get organized, time to prepare sanctions, time to close our embassies, time to arm the Ukrainians and time to move troops to the eastern flank. So this has been a masterstroke by the Biden ministration in winning this decisive phase zero.
JANSING: And Peter, you served as Moscow bureau chief, as I said, for The Washington Post, so after covering Putin for years, let me ask you, like we see him building capabilities, we know that the level of concern is extraordinarily high. But does that mean he`s made his decision? Do you think he knows exactly what he`s going to do?
JANSING: Yes, sorry. I know I don`t think he`s -- we know that he`s made his decision. That`s the one thing about Vladimir Putin is he holds his cards close to the vest. It`s very possible that people around him in the Kremlin don`t even know what his thinking is as much as they would like to know. He`s a very cool customer, very cold eye. He has moments of passion and anger and emotion.
[23:10:00]
I remember in interviewing him back when we were in Moscow, he very controlled at every single moment, except when you brought up something like in that case, Chechnya, which was a Russian republic at that point that was in rebellion against Moscow when he got very angry and very sort of, you know, upset personally in a way that seemed at odds with his otherwise cool demeanor.
And I think that`s sort of what you`re seeing now with Ukraine in that sense. The Ukraine situation has gotten under his skin in the in the way that he believes. And you saw him writing that essay last summer. Ukraine is not a separate country belongs to Russia.
But that doesn`t mean he hasn`t figured that out. I mean, a key factor in long ago, all the moves that we have taken in the sense that the West knows he knows what sanctions are on the table. He knows what Joe Biden and the Europeans are capable of. He knows what military moves they would make to defend NATO allies in the East. And he`s already thought about that in terms of whether he wants to go forward or not.
The real question is whether he wants to go forward or not. And we can`t know that for sure until he actually makes the decision.
JANSING: I`m looking at this headline tone of Ukraine crisis shifts. And I wonder, Jeremy, if you think there`s something that will signal he`s ready to pull the trigger, or are we there now? And now it`s just a waiting game?
BASH: Oh, I think we`re there. I think his combat forces are postured on the border. I think he`s got air power available to him. I think he`s got naval forces that are going to try to attack Ukraine, obviously, from the Black Sea from the shores there.
I think he`s got a number of Spetsnaz Special Operations Forces affiliated with the Russian intelligence and special operations community ready to infiltrate. I think if he wants to go all the way to Kyiv, he will in a shock and awe blitzkrieg type move. He could limit the invasion. He could leverage more cyber-attacks. He could engage in more and information, misinformation, and propaganda wars. But I think he`s got all the capability there.
Now, I think Peters, correct. It`s his final decision whether he wants to move. But it`s clear that given all this time, given all this buildup, given all the warnings by the West, the West is ready. The United States is ready. And it doesn`t mean that they`ll necessarily at the end of the day deter invasion. But whatever comes next, Washington and our allies and the Transatlantic Alliance, I think are fully ready for this next phase.
JANSING: Yes, the question that was rolling around Washington, DC, as you well know, Jeremy, is should action be taken now? Should it only be taken if indeed he invades I want to play something Senator Lindsey Graham said on Sunday, take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): What I can`t get over is that the world is allowing him to do all this without consequence. The guy took the Crimea in 2014. He`s got 100,000 troops amassed on the Ukrainian border, and he`s paying no price at all. So I`d like to hit him now for the provocation and have sanctions spelled out very clearly. What happens to the ruble in his oil and gas economy? I think that`s what`s missing. We`re talking way too much. And we`re doing too little.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JANSING: Jeremy, does Graham have a point?
BASH: I think the way the White House use this, as I`ve been talking to senior national security officials is that if we actually unveil the sanctions now, and Putin`s basically to say, well, I already paid for the dinner, I might as well eat it, meaning I`ve already paid the price of the sanctions, I might as well invade Ukraine.
So we`re, I think, appropriately holding this out as a last ditch effort to deter as a last just ditch effort at diplomacy. If he crosses those lines, though, Chris, undoubtedly, we`re going to act.
JANSING: Do you, Courtney, I wonder what you`re hearing from folks at the White House and sort of have you heard anything elsewhere about the messaging on this? For a lot of the American people, this is a place very far away. They don`t really understand necessarily what all the potential consequences are. Has there been any conversation about the president directly addressing the American people about what`s at stake here?
SUBRAMANIAN: Yes, we`ve asked the White House numerous times. And when we can hear from the President and they pointed to recent comments he`s made, you know, as recently as his press conference, two conversations with reporters following events and remarks, but nothing official about when we should hear from the President, in remarks to the American people.
But I do think it`s important, you can`t ignore the political dimension here of this, you know, conveying this urgency. We`re hearing a lot of the same talking points from the White House, from the Pentagon from the National Security Council.
And I think, you know, we have to remember, tomorrow marks the six months since the Taliban takeover of Afghanistan, when the Biden administration was heavily criticized for how quickly they were able to topple the Afghan government. And you know, his competency, Biden`s competency was called into question and I think you have the administration, sort of making sure they`re not repeating some of, you know, any mistakes made In that foreign policy crisis and communication around that foreign policy crisis, which is why we`re seeing, you know, constant communication from the White House about how engaged the President is, you know, on the phone, with Putin on the phone with Zelensky, on the phone with NATO allies, preparing for the invasion with clear communication on what to expect and this sort of relentless effort to coordinate and cooperate with our NATO allies.
[23:15:29]
JANSING: And, Courtney, let me ask you as well about the January 6 investigation and John Eastman trying to keep thousands of e0mails from the January 6 committee, what are you hearing about the importance of them? Is there a sense that committee has much of the information it needs for their investigation even if these don`t come through? What are you hearing about the Eastman paperwork?
SUBRAMANIAN: Well, it`s important because he was a key advisor to Trump in those final weeks, between former President Trump`s defeat and January 6, and, you know, he`s provided 8,000 documents to the committee, he still has to sort through it additional 48,000. But it really comes down to zeroing in on this trove of more than 500 e-mails.
Eastman is withholding from the House, but sent between -- sent and received between January 4 and January 7, which the committee is arguing is important to establishing what happened and could sort of help the ultimate goal of the committee which is building out, you know, what happened before, during and after the events of January 6, that is something they want to lay out in a report, you know, by the summer, and those emails could help shed light on those preparations, on those conversations Trump was having with advisors around him.
And it could also help the committee assess whether Trump`s efforts justify a criminal referral to the Justice Department on a charge like obstructing official proceeding in Congress.
JANSING: And Peter, given all the time you`ve spent covering Donald Trump, I`m very curious to get your reaction to the accounting firm for the Trump Organization saying no more. We`re done. And in fact, saying that the financial statements from the Trump Organization for a decade`s worth of financial statements can no longer be viewed as reliable.
BAKER: Yes, it`s a sort of reminiscent of the days when Ron Ziglar, the White House press secretary under President Nixon suddenly said that all previous statements about Watergate were inoperative right, the accounting firm is now saying that those financial statements from the last 10 years are all inoperative, meaning you can`t trust them. They`ve now basically washed their hands of them.
And of course, this is tied up to Letitia James, the New York State Attorney General, her probe into President Trump`s finances and the Trump organization`s finances where there`s a allegation that he, you know, manipulated the estimates of what his assets were worth in order to pay less taxes, but to gain more credit from banking sources.
And I think that this is a sign for the accounting firm, that they`re no longer on the train, that they in fact, have agreed in some ways with the New York State Attorney General`s office that the statements that they helped prepare, were not fully forthcoming and accurate and that they don`t want to be, you know, tied to that ship. As as it may or may not be going down.
JANSING: It`s only Monday, but I`m going to go out on a limb and give Peter Baker the historical reference of The Week award. Thank you, Peter, Courtney Subramanian and Jeremy Bash. Appreciate all of you staying up with us tonight.
And coming up. Former Acting U.S. Solicitor General Neal Katyal here to discuss what Rudy Giuliani would mean if he could cooperate with the January 6 committee. What would it mean for the investigation into the capital riot.
Later, our political experts will break down new reporting on the growing split in the Republican Party over the former president. Why some are just not happy with Donald Trump`s efforts to punish those who have challenged him in the past. THE 11TH HOUR just getting underway on a Monday night.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:22:40]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ADAM KINZINGER (D-IL): He`s been subpoenaed. Our expectation is he is going to cooperate because that`s the law. That`s the requirement, same as if somebody subpoenaed to court. There may be some changes and dates and moments here as, you know, lawyers do their back and forth. But we fully expect that in accordance with the law. We`ll hear from Rudy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JANSING: While other members of the Trump inner circle are defying subpoenas from the January 6 committee. The New York Times reports that Rudy Giuliani, who was involved in multiple facets of this game to overturn the 2020 election is in talks with the committee about what form his testimony might take.
The time says according to a source quote, Mr. Giuliani was still negotiating over whether to give investigators an informal interview or a formal deposition, and that he had not yet determined how much information he might seek to shield from the committee by invoking executive privilege or attorney client privilege with Mr. Trump.
We welcome back, Neal Katyal, Department of Justice veteran and former acting Solicitor General during the Obama administration who has argued dozens of cases before the U.S. Supreme Court.
Great to see you, Neal. Look, you know, there are many other members of Trump`s inner circle. I`m thinking for example, Steve Bannon, who defied subpoenas and requests for documents. What might Rudy Giuliani`s calculation be in considering some level of cooperation? What might he be weighing?
NEAL KATYAL, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY LAW PROFESSOR: Well, great to see you, Chris. I suspect his calculation is the same as Bannon and the others. Rudy is not in a vacuum. He`s a creature of the Donald Trump swamp, and 18 different people around Trump had refused to testify because they`re afraid to go and tell the truth.
Now, when I was in the government, if law enforcement asked you to testify, or Congress did or provide information, of course you did. But I think here the odds are that these swamp creatures are going to all stick together.
So it`s possible, Rudy`s really contemplating seriously cooperating because he`s afraid of illegal bills, or he grew a conscience or whatever. And remember, Rudy is the guy who on January 6, infamously demanded, quote, trial by combat. And if he`s not able to negotiate with Congress, he might be facing an ordeal that he`s even less prepared for, you know, a trial by jury.
So there are reasons for him to cooperate. But at the end of the day, I think that this is just a stalling tactic, and maybe something to just get, you know, Trump to pay his legal bills.
[23:25:02]
JANSING: No go ahead, Neal. Sorry.
KAYTAL: I was going to say that might be giving them too much credit because we`re talking about the guy who can`t tell the difference between a hotel and a landscaping service but, you know, my gut is this is just a delay tactic.
JANSING: Oh, the four seasons. OK. Well, I mean, then that leads me to the obvious question. Let`s say they do get some testimony. Can he be considered a credible witness?
KAYTAL: Well, you know, he`s obviously got some credibility issues. But, you know, if he`s giving statements, essentially against his interest, and, you know, it has the documents to prove it, as I suspect he probably does. I think that yes, it could be an explosive witness if he did come in turn testimony.
And so to, Chris, the story that you started the show with about Donald Trump`s accounting firm, same thing there. You know, there are lots and lots of documents, possibly as many hundreds of thousands of documents. If you look at the numbers of the documents that were revealed today, and it is an amazing thing, to get an accountant to drop a company, public or private. I mean, financially, that`s kind of the death knell for most companies, and legally is a huge significant thing, because Donald Trump is under investigation for exactly what Mazars is saying they`re concerned about which is the over inflation and underreporting of his assets at various times.
JANSING: Well, let me ask you about another advisor to the former president John Eastman trying to shield thousands of pages of documents from the committee claiming attorney client privilege. Here`s Politico, what Politico wrote, quote, the House is specifically asking Eastman to furnish documents that would detail his attorney-client relationship with Trump, or his presidential campaign in the closing weeks of 2020, as Trump`s bid to overturn the election grew increasingly desperate.
What would be needed for a privileged claim to stand up? Or is Eastman just really trying to run out the clock until after the midterms?
KATYAL: Probably the latter, but I think Eastman faces a real problem, because today, Chris, a federal judge issued an order to John Eastman, which said, essential scaping and basically said, Look, you know, I`m not buying a lot of these delays about your claims of privilege. And so he insisted that John Eastman in just a week or so explained the basis for each of his claims of privilege. He has to document that he was actually acting as an attorney showing engagement letters with a client and stuff like that. Eastman is trying to withhold, you know, thousands and thousands of pages of e-mails. And I think this federal judge looks like he`s had it with Eastman`s inability to actually review these documents in a timely fashion, and to explain the basis for privilege.
So basically, you`ve got Congress moving pretty quickly. It looks like you`ve got some action by the Justice Department against a lower level January 6 insurrectionists. And the question is, does do these two investigations merge and become a high level criminal investigation of those around in the White House and surrounding them?
JANSING: Yes. I`ve got to ask you about this. President Biden`s signaled last week. He`s down to his Supreme Court shortlist. We already know that two key players Clyburn and Graham have given him political reasons to pick Michelle Childs. She`s from their state. But as he starts interviews with the final three, what factors is he likely considering right now?
KATYAL: Well, I think he`s probably thinking about who would make the best justice on the court, given the current composition of the court, which is six to three. So I don`t know Judge Childs but the other two, Leondra Kruger and Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson are two of the most impressive people I`ve ever met to the most impressive lawyers I`ve ever met. They`d be such a credit to the court.
And that may be true about Judge Childs. Well, I just don`t know about her. But I just think this is a great shortlist at the shortlist America could be should be proud of. And it`s someone that these are judges that I think the court would really respect the other eight justices.
And listen to and, you know, these undoubtedly will bring a diversity of perspectives to the bench that I think is lacking there. And it`s going to be an incredible day for the court. It`s looking like if the reports are right, and these are these are the actual you know, shortlist truce.
JANSING: Neal Katyal, always great to see you. Thank you.
KATYAL: Thank you.
JANSING: And coming up, new targets in the Trump revenge campaign and the impact of political pettiness on the GOP, when the 11th Hour continues.
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[23:33:09]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLAIRE MCCASKILL, FMR. U.S. SENATOR: In my state, Donald Trump is the Republican Party. And I think that`s true in a lot of states. So, you know, I don`t want to -- I don`t want to be the one to rain on everybody`s parade, especially on Valentine`s Day when we should be thinking with full hearts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JANSING: Well, some polls show some Republican leaning independents perhaps souring on Donald Trump. The base still isn`t ready to break up and that`s generating undeniable tension within the Republican Party.
From the Washington Post, quote, The growing split is rooted in divergent priorities, Trump has pursued a narrow effort to punish those who challenged his efforts to overturn the 2020 election result, while also working to put people in power who would be more sympathetic to him should he try the same thing again. Other Republicans are more focused on finding palatable candidates most able to win in November.
With us tonight, Don Calloway, Democratic strategist and founder of the National Voter Protection Action Fund. And Tim Miller, a contributor to The Bulwark and former communications director for Jeb Bush. Good to see you, gentlemen.
So this split, Tim, is it just inside baseball? Or is this really playing out among Republican voters in a way that could have an impact? Maybe a big impact in November?
TIM MILLER, THE BULWARK CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, I think this split is happening inside a couple of offices in Alexandria and on K Street and on Capitol Hill, and it`s inside the brains of a couple of guys that work there. And that`s about it.
I wish I`m like Claire, I wish I could give people a Valentine`s Day box of chocolates that says the Donald Trump is going away and the voters are moving away from them. But there just isn`t any evidence of that.
You know, Chris back when we were working together in 2016 on that campaign that feels like a long time ago. He won that primary with only about 45 percent vote share, 40 to 45 percent of the party. He has well that right now.
[23:35:03]
You know, and I think that all the evidence of whether the party is split or not, can just be -- you can just point to the candidates who are actually running for office and have to talk to voters right now. All of those candidates are giving total fealty to Donald Trump.
You know, Mitch McConnell, he doesn`t have an election coming up. You know, there are candidates that are Adam Kinzinger. God bless them is exiting stage right. You know, there are people who won`t speak on the record to the Washington Post who say they`re over.
But of all of the actual politicians whose names they`ll put on their statements who are running for office, they`re still sticking with them, because the voters are with them. And anything else is just wish casting at this point, unfortunately.
JANSING: Yes, Don, is that what it is? Is the fear just too great still?
DON CALLOWAY, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Yes, absolutely. And there`s not been an intervening midterm election to show that Republican primary voters have moved away from Donald Trump. Remember, this is all about the Republican primary. And ultimately, you have to get through that in order to beat the Democrat in the general.
The way right now evidence shows and polling shows to win a Republican primary is to declare fealty and loyalty to President Trump. This is a very dangerous situation, because on either side, I think the American body politic has got to move away from this universe of personality driven individual celebrity politics and move towards a fealty towards support for democracy and good governance and norms and things of that nature.
But we particularly see it playing out in the Republican Party, which is Senator McCaskill says it`s hard to distinguish what is the base of the party from the base of the Trump acolytes?
JANSING: Tim, we`re all used to Trump`s airing of grievances style but you could argue his latest attacks are maybe even less focused. This weekend he went after Maine Senator Susan Collins, after she said no Republicans should fear him from the Bangor Daily News this, Trump said that Collins was atrocious and he had allowed her to win reelection in 2020 by not saying anything negative about her.
Let`s just state the facts. Collins far outpaced Trump`s margin in her district in Maine. And by the way, she`s not up for reelection until 2026. But these kinds of statements are they just pettiness on Donald Trump`s part? Or is it a very clear message? You can keep trying to break away from me but you`re going to get one heck of a fight?
MILLER: Yes, nobody does petty like the former president, Chris. So I do think there`s a little bit of pettiness. I`m not sure if I agree with your sentiment that it`s more petty or less petty than the past. I think he`s had a long lifetime of pretty even pettiness throughout his career, even before he was in office.
Look, he kind of has a point what Susan Collins, I hate to say that about Donald Trump about anything, but his point is only true to the extent that he could have tanked her. Right I, you know, we look, we saw this in Georgia, the way he behaved in January. We`ve seen Donald Trump tank other Republican candidates if he puts he puts his mind to it. Because if there`s one thing he`s good at, or there`s two things he`s good at one, it`s tearing things down. And two is understanding how to manipulate the media, particularly the right wing media to serve as events.
And so I think that when he takes somebody on within the Republican Party, it`s very hard for that person to overcome that. And so I do think this is a warning shots, you know, to other candidates who might do the very gentle tiptoe away from that Susan Collins, because remember, Susan Collins said she`d be open to voting for him in 2024. So that`s enough to get a net rap on the knuckles. You know, imagine what going, you know, even more for further and, and, and, and supporting a primary opponent would get you.
JANSING: Is Claire find down the Electoral Count Act a way that some Republicans not in complete lockstep with Trump might be willing to make at least one reform to shore up democracy?
MILLER: I think so. I think so. You know, we`ll see, it`s been interesting that there hasn`t been a ton of pressure coming from the MAGA media and or from Mar-a-Lago on that front. And so you`ve seen a lot of willingness to it.
You know, McConnell is if nothing else, he`s a strategist. He`s a tactician, and he`s worried that they might make a filibuster exception, you know, that they might be able to get Manchin on board for a narrow filibuster exemption, maybe, you know, that they would let the caucus do something on the Electron Count Act.
And frankly, I think that`d be a good thing. And I really do hope they can get 10 Republicans for that, because that, to me is the most urgent of the many different voting rights issues that are in front of us.
JANSING: Both our guests are staying with us. And just ahead, Democrats hoping to win over votes are working through divisions of their own, and you`ll never guess who`s behind some of those, when the 11th Hour continues.
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[23:42:49]
JANSING: The GOP is not alone and struggling with fallout from the twice impeached former president. As the Washington Post points out some vulnerable Democrats are shying away from talking about him too much in favor of everyday kitchen table issues. But others believe quote, voters both the liberal basis and swing voters in the suburbs need to hear a message that links GOP candidates to the attempts to overturn President Biden`s victory and future threats to elections. Still with Don Calloway, Tim Miller. Don, let`s get right to it. What should Democratic candidates be focusing on right now?
CALLOWAY: Got to focus on building back better. You got to focus on I hate to use the broad term kitchen table issues. But the reality is we have to find some way to focus on our historic message of equal rights and equal opportunity for everybody. But also trying to figure out what it looks like to have a good job to have quality and affordable housing and to have environmental justice in a post COVID world.
And nobody really knows what that looks like yet. And either party here if we`re willing to walk away from the crazy, crazy on their side being Trump acolytism, and crazy on our side being obsessed with Trumpism in general and blaming them for Trump. If we`re willing to walk past that, then both sides have a real opportunity to grab a hold of what this country looks like in a post-COVID yet fully operational era to grab an opportunity to define what it looks like to gather responsibly, to what it looks like to emphasize vaccine and testing at the same time, and what it looks like to embrace jobs of the future.
I think that Democrats have a real opportunity to do so while continuing their message of inclusiveness, but we`re going to have a hard time doing that when we`re continuing to talk about how bad of a President Trump was. We know he was bad. We know he continues to be an important person. But that doesn`t help us craft a vision for the future that people are going to buy into.
I`ve learned in 20 years of campaigning that people would much rather have something to vote for than to vote against. So it really is gut check time for the messaging and perspective this fall in the midterms, but particularly in 2024.
JANSING: Well, obviously, Tim, focusing too much on Trump didn`t work out so well for Terry McAuliffe in Virginia. So, if not Trump, is part of the messaging though about preserving the democracy or do you stick to those again for lack of a better term kitchen table issues, pocketbook issues?
[23:45:13]
MILLER: Yes, look, the incumbent party in a midterm always has a tougher challenge, right? Because they need to make the case for themselves. How are they? How have they been helping voters in the first two years, in addition to making the case against the other side. Whereas the other side is a lot easier, right. They can just nitpick, you know, what has been bad about the incumbent administration? That`s why the first midterm is historically always bad for the incoming president. So that is the deficit Democrats start from.
And for me, I think the challenge is, well, look, yes, you need to have a negative message about how extreme the Republicans are. That includes Trump. That includes the X anti-vaxx craziness, you know, that includes whatever crazy happens between now and November. And we know the Republicans will give us some of that, right.
But in addition to that, there needs to be a positive message. And that`s where you get to the quote, unquote, kitchen table issues, right. How can Democrats address, you know, concerns of voters have about inflation, you know, concerns voters have about, you know, about getting back from COVID, as Don was getting into. And I think that is where the BBB becomes a major question, and how can Democrats craft a message that say, We understand your concerns about inflation, where they`re saying your concerns about the economy, but here are the things that we`re doing to address that, here are the things that we did like infrastructure and broadband, that that`s going to make your lives better.
And so Democrats need to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time and do both of those things, whereas Republicans are going to have an easier, easier go, that was just a negative anti-Biden messaging
JANSING: Don, one of the things Republicans have had great success at motivating their base with is Supreme Court nominations. I`ve seen it I`ve gone door to door with them, where they`ve talked to abortion and gotten a pledge from somebody who said, I`ve never voted in an off year election before saying, Oh, well, now I`m definitely going to go to the polls.
As Biden is narrowing down his choices, will Democrats be able to do the same is the Supreme Court nomination that President Biden is going to make the historic nature of it, something that can help Democrats in November?
CALLOWAY: Certainly, certainly, and it already has. I mean, it`s been out there for about a month. And we know that he`s going to pick a black woman. And that`s a good thing. But I imagine that Biden will get a little bit more of an electoral bump, as we move into the spring and perhaps even summertime, and have to make this big.
So I`m sure that it will follow up with more positive impressions for not only the Biden administration, but for generic Democrats on electoral ballots, as we see a brilliant black woman rollout as breasts happens, and we get to know her, and even through a confirmation process.
But at the end of the day, we`re still going to have to have something happen in November around Build Back Better, around reminding people of all the good that happened in the infrastructure bill, local leaders are going to have to come together with their liaisons and their regional people in the federal administration is to figure out how to bring home the money from the bipartisan infrastructure bill and what it should be applied to specifically that`s going to make people`s lives better.
And that`s a big lift that has to happen in between now and November, both in terms of actual planning, and then the messaging for what they decide they`re going to do. I think you`re going to get a substantial bump in the Biden polling for the Supreme Court big, but you got to do a lot more than that, as you move into election season.
JANSING: We`ve only got 45 seconds left. So Tim, I`ll ask you this. Are Republicans always going to vote more SCOTUS than Democrats are?
MILLER: I think so. You know, I just think it`s part of it the nature of the coalition`s and, you know, I think that hopefully to Dan`s plan, the Democrats can engage, you know, the base, the African American voter base, which is going to be super important in this midterms. But I think it`s just the nature that Republicans get more worked up about this. Don, shaking his head.
JANSING: Go ahead, Don.
CALLOWAY: Well, Tim, you`re not wrong. But it`s important to note that Republicans can organize around corpse and gerrymandering and things like that when you`ve been fully allowed to participate in the democratic process for 225 years. Black folks have been fully allowed to participate and they are the basic Democratic Party. We`ve been allowed to participate since 1965.
So we have not quite gotten around to the sophistication around organizing around courts, notifying voters around courts and the Supreme Court on the importance of that. We`re just trying to participate. We`re just trying to vote. We`re just trying to run African American candidates for the first time, a women candidates for the first time in many places.
So there`s a history of organizing and galvanizing voters around issues that has not happened on the Democratic Party, fundamentally, because we have been intentionally excluded. A lot of the people that vote Democrats have been intentionally excluded from processes.
JANSING: Don Calloway, Tim Miller, great conversation. Thank you, gentlemen. Appreciate it. Coming up, an update on the trucker protests in Canada and the policies the truckers say they`re protesting when the 11th Hour continues.
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[23:53:03]
JANSING: As we mentioned at the top of the program, Justin Trudeau today became the first leader of Canada to invoke the Emergencies Act as he tries to end the weekslong anti vaccine blockade in his country.
Yet as Canadian truckers disperse similar protests are popping up in other places around the world. Our report tonight from NBC News correspondent Gabe Gutierrez.
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GABE GUTIERREZ, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The so called Freedom Convoys protesting COVID restrictions have been bubbling for weeks, but now police in Western Canada have arrested 11 people and seize guns, body armor and a large quantity of ammunition out of border blockade. Late today, Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau invoked rarely used emergency powers.
JUSTIN TRUDEAU, CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER: These blockades are illegal. And if you`re still participating, the time to go home is now.
GUTIERREZ: Over the weekend, the Ambassador Bridge connecting Detroit and Windsor reopened after protesters had blocked it clogging the supply chain for U.S. automakers. But similar demonstrations have started popping up around the world from New Zealand to France to Israel.
In the U.S., they`re being braced by some conservative politicians.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But I have the truckers who come to America hope they clog up cities.
GUTIERREZ: But disinformation is flourishing. Facebook officials tell NBC News that some of the groups that have promoted American trucker convoys are being run by fake accounts tied to content mills in Vietnam, Bangladesh and Romania. Extremist researchers are also warning that many anti vaccine and conspiracy driven communities in the U.S. are quickly pivoting to promote disruptive convoys.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These groups are using these trucker convoys, specifically to push their anti-vaccine messages. It sort of worked in Canada, and they`re going to see if it can work in the United States.
GUTIERREZ (on camera): U.S. federal authorities have been monitoring the possibility that a convoy could disrupt the Super Bowl. That did not happen. Now online groups are discussing the possibility of another date for road closures across the U.S. March 5. Back to you.
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[23:55:03]
JANSING: Gabe Gutierrez, thank you for that and coming up. As troubling news dominates the headlines, we`ll tell you how the White House is celebrating love this Valentine`s Day when the 11th Hour continues.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, is the Russian invasion higher than never?
JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: Happy Valentine`s Day.
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JANSING: The last thing before we go tonight, love is in the air. No doubt, Joe Biden has a lot on his plate these days. But like many of us, the President and First Lady did take time out of their busy schedules this Monday to celebrate Valentine`s Day.
There was the public display of affection on social media with a tweet to the first lady that read, You`re the love of my life and the life of my love, Jilly, Happy Valentine`s Day. And he included a photo of the couple on a beach together when they were younger.
And just like she did a year ago, the first lady is celebrating Valentine`s Day was a display on the North Lawn of the White House. This year, it`s hand painted wooden artwork in the shapes of the Biden`s dog commander and cat Willow. Between them a heart inscribed with the Bible verse three things will last forever. faith hope and love. The greatest of these is love.
Dr. Biden also invited a local second grade class for a tour of the White House to view the Valentine`s Day artwork they had designed themselves. The students were instructed to use the words love peace, kindness and unity to create the 42 hearts now displayed in the East Room.
Their teacher, Alejandro Diasgranados, won Washington DC Teacher of the Year award last year.
So before it`s too late, here`s wishing a Happy Valentine`s Day to you at home from our hearts to yours.
That is our broadcast for this Monday night with our thanks for being with us. On behalf of all of my colleagues at the networks of NBC News, good night.