GOP to scrap primaries. TRANSCRIPT: 9/6/19, The Last Word w/ Lawrence O’Donnell.

Bryan Bender, Lloyd Doggett, John Sides, Tiffany Cross, Charlie Sykes, Malcolm Nance, Peter Turnquest

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST:   The resources that are going to need to be

devoted there, not just in the long terms in terms of rebuilding, but in

terms of right now, getting people out of what are still desperate

situations. It`s pretty overwhelming story. That`s going to do it for us

tonight. We will see you again on Monday.


Now, it`s time for “The Last Word” where Joy Reid is sitting in for

Lawrence O`Donnell tonight. Good evening, Joy.


JOY REID, MSNBC HOST:  Good evening, Rachel. I have to tell you, first of

all, the Bahamas situation, it is horrifying and so we`re going to be

covering that tonight too.


MADDOW:  Good.


REID:  It is really frightening to know what weather can do and having

lived through a couple of hurricanes – pretty big one, but this one is

horrific. So we`re absolutely going to talk about that. But I have to go

back just for a minute to that “”Politico”” story that you had Natasha on



MADDOW:  I`ve still got it – I`m still working through it.


REID:  I am, too. I`m starting to put my yellow marks and everything on it.

You know it`s funny, Rachel, I feel like this era, one of the things it`s

done – I don`t know if it`s done it to you, but it has done it to me, is

it`s kind of robbed me of astonishment. You know what I mean?


Like the experience of being surprised and being astonished is kind of

gone, like I`ve lost it, but this – this one I think I`ve gotten it back

tonight because – and it`s not because Trump.


It`s not – I`m not astonished that Trump would attempt to profit off of

the presidency. We`ve seen lots of that, but the fact that the military is

being enlisted in doing it.


MADDOW:  Yes. And that the military is apparently not peeping and not

helping as Congress is trying to do oversight on this. I mean, I feel like

the astonishment thing is – it`s almost like clinical, you know, let`s try

not releasing tax returns.


REID:  Right.


MADDOW:  You know? Like, let`s see. OK. I`m getting away with that, OK.

Well, let`s try not setting up a blind trust. OK. Well let`s try not

divesting at all. OK. We`ll let`s try hosting official government events

and world leaders at some of my properties.


REID:  Right.


MADDOW:  OK. I`m getting away with all of this. And so now it`s finally

like, no, Mike if you`re going to Ireland you`re staying 180 miles away

from where your meetings are so that I can get paid there. Yes, we`re going

to put the G7 at Doral.


And by the way, military transport flights to Kuwait have to stop at the

little commercial airport next to my golf course in Scotland –


REID:  Yes.


MADDOW:  – to spend their refueling dollars there at top dollar, a premium

they`re paying to get and refuel at a commercial airport, but that might

keep that airport alive, which is good for my bottom line. I mean, we are

astonished now but I think that he is banking on the fact that he`s gotten

away with so much.


REID:  That`s right.


MADDOW:  That every individual additional step you push it, well, you know,

frog is boiling.


REID:  Well, I mean, and there are governments all over the world where the

leader is both the leader of the country and a recipient of the money, a

piece of everything that goes on, goes in their pocket. Americans just

aren`t accustomed to that being the United States.


MADDOW:  Right. No, we`re getting accustomed to it with every passing day

with each one of these new stories that`s breaking.


REID:  Yes.


MADDOW:  I mean, the military being implicated in this as a matter of

integrity let alone criminal law –


REID:  Yes.


MADDOW:  – may be a breaking point if the military still sees itself as an

institution that has to answer for its own behavior. But it is remarkable.


REID:  And if they don`t, then we`re in real trouble.




REID:  I think this is the tipping point in the sense that if this – if he

can get away with this and if the military will back him up on it, then we

are in trouble, very, very deep trouble.


MADDOW:  Yes. I mean, we saw, you know, the National Weather Service today


REID:  Yes.


MADDOW:  – trying to back up the president in terms of lying about where

the hurricane was going. That was pretty disheartening.


REID:  Yes, it was.


MADDOW:  That was like a 1984 kind of moment.


REID:  Yes.


MADDOW:  But the military having, A, gone along with this and now, B,

keeping it quiet as Congress tries to look into it –


REID:  Yes.


MADDOW:  – and stonewalling the oversight here. I just – I don`t – I

have more respect for the military than that.


REID:  Yes.


MADDOW:  And I would expect that to break.


REID:  I hope so.




REID:  We shall see. We shall see.


MADDOW:  Thanks my friend. 


REID:  Thank you so much. As always, Rachel Maddow. Thank you, thank you,

thank you. And breaking news of course, as you just heard – I`m Joy Reid

by the way, sitting in for Lawrence O`Donnell.


“”Politico”” has just broken this incredible new story that you heard from

Rachel tonight about the potential use of government resources at one of

Donald Trump`s private properties.


According to “”Politico”,” an Air National Guard crew making a routine trip

from the U.S. to Kuwait made an unusual stop way up north at Donald Trump`s

Turnberry golf course in Scotland.


“”Politico”” reports, “Since April, the House Oversight Committee has been

investigating why the crew on the C-17 military transport plane made the

unusual stay – both en route to the Middle East and on the way back at the

luxury waterside resort, according to several people familiar with the

incident. But they have yet to receive any answers from the Pentagon.


According to “”Politico”,” previous trips taken by the crew had landed at

U.S. air bases in mainland Europe and members were surprised by the new



“One crew member was so struck by the choice of hotel, markedly different

than the Marriotts and Hiltons the 176th maintenance squadron is used to –

that he texted someone close to him and told him about the stay, sending a

photo and noting that the crew`s per diem allowance wasn`t enough to cover

food and drinks at the ritzy resort.”


Today, the House Judiciary and Oversight Committees publicly revealed a

series of letters that they sent earlier this week to both the White House

and the Trump Organization demanding information about Trump`s habit of

directing government spending to his family`s businesses and properties.


Spending that could amount to violations of the constitution, foreign and

domestic emoluments clauses. Specifically, House committees are demanding

information about the vice president`s recent official trip to Dublin where

he chose as a place to stay a Trump owned property located on the other

side of the country, more than 180 miles away from Dublin.


Democrats in Congress would like to know what gives with that. And they`re

also asking for information on the president`s public pitch to make his

golf resort in Doral, Florida the site of the next G7 global leader summit.


Meaning seven foreign governments would be paying the family for lodging at

an official event. All of this comes at a time when Trump himself has made

213 visits to his own properties including at least 98, specifically, to

play golf at a cost to you, the taxpayer, of about $109 million according

to the website Trump golf count, and at a time when 135 members of the

United States House have already come out in support of an impeachment



Joining us now is Congressman Lloyd Doggett, a Democrat from Texas and a

member of the House Ways and Means Committee, which is also investigating

the president`s finances. Bryan Bender, defense editor for “”Politico”” who

broke that news story about Scotland, and Malcolm Nance, an MSNBC counter-

intelligence and intelligence analyst, along with Charlie Sykes, the

editor-in-chief of “The Bulwark” and an MSNBC political analyst.


I`m going to go to you first because this is your story, Bryan. So what

we`re seeing here then is that the Trump administration – do we know what

the administration`s role is or if they had any role in this decision by

the military to have their plane stop near a Trump golf resort and members

of the military stay there?


BRYAN BENDER, DEFENSE EDITOR, “POLITICO”:  We don`t know exactly why this

decision was made and whether this particular that case we uncovered, this

new wrinkle about this Air Force crew staying at the resort in Scotland is

an isolated case or not. The House Oversight and Reform Committee believe

that it`s not.


They found data that suggests millions of dollars have been spent in this

way. And what we`re trying to figure out and the Air Force And Pentagon

have basically, at this point, declined to give us any information nor have

they given any of the documents that the House committee has requested

about this.


But the big question is why would they go out of their way, break with

tradition if you will, on these very routine missions, you know, in between

the United States and the Middle East and elsewhere in the world and drive

50 plus miles, park their plane at a commercial airport, not in an air

force base, and spend what would seem to be much more government and

taxpayer money than they normally would just to stay at this resort owned

by the president?


REID:  Well, then you know, sometimes maybe the information potentially

answers the question. This is a little bit from your story with Natasha

Bertrand. Taken together, these incidents raise the possibility that the

military has helped keep Trump`s Turnberry resort afloat.


The property lost $4.5 million in 2017 but revenue went up $3 million in

2018. Bryan, were you able to determine whether that increase in revenue,

sudden flushness of cash had to do with basically government spending,

military spending?


BENDER:  Well, what we do know is that this property in Scotland was

struggling and the House committee told us that they`ve been able to

discern that, you know, I think more than 600 payments were made both to

the nearby commercial airport and related payments to the hotel over the

course of several years.


And so I think the big question for the House Oversight Committee is was

there some decision by some higher level person to spend this money there

because the property was not doing well financially? And it looks like the

property is doing better and clearly, that`s in part because of potentially

some of this government funding.


REID:  Malcolm Nance, you served in the military, honorably so. Have you

ever heard of anything like this about a military transport stopping at a

private golf resort let alone when owned by the president of the United




I have. And that was Saddam Hussein who had a series of palaces all around

his country and he would only go to those palaces. He would never transport

himself to some innocuous airport where he couldn`t secure himself.


Now, of course, that is an extreme example, right? Third world dictators in

potentates tend to use these secure sites of which enrich themselves all

the time. Now, for the United States, no. These flights are extremely



I`ve flown every flight from the United States to every place in the Middle

East at some point in my career. And when you go trans Atlantic, you make

these three stops. You stop in Lakenheath, England, which is a ginormous

military base that is south of Scotland.


You stop in Ramstein Air Base in Kaiserslautern, Germany, or you stop in

Rota, Spain or some way station in between there like Ankara, Turkey. But

you don`t stop at a small airport in Scotland or go to Shannon. The only

time you go to Shannon is if there is an in flight emergency.


And all of these things do nothing but send money to the pocket of the

president of the United States. Whoever the commander of that squadron is,

he is going to be held accountable and so will the Air Force and the

secretary of the Air Force and Mike Espy. secretary of defense will have to

explain why is this money going to the president`s pocket?


REID:  And, well, let`s see if they will be. I mean, Lloyd Doggett –

Congressman Doggett, one other piece from this “Politico” story according

to a letter the panel sent – that the panel, these are the two committees

sent to the Pentagon in June, “the military has spent $11 million on fuel

at the Prestwick Airport, the closest airport to Trump Turnberry since

October of 2017, fuel that would be cheaper if purchased at a U.S. military



I`m old enough to remember when there was a huge scandal about the price of

hammers and nails that the Pentagon was purchasing at really exorbitant

prices, and toilet seats that were extra, extra expensive because who they

were buying them from.


This is now an additional amount of spending of U.S. taxpayer dollars at a

time when we are being told we don`t have enough money to get, you know,

tooth brushes for the people who are being housed in military detention. Is

there going to be some accountability particularly if the military isn`t



REP. LLOYD DOGGETT (D-TX):  There must be, Joy. And you know, this is a

remarkable bit of reporting by “Politico.” We see that there is good reason

for President Trump to use the Stalinist term the enemy of the people when

referring to the press, because truth is his enemy.


It doesn`t work to have truth and his lies and I think in this case, he has

the greatest difficulty drawing any line between private gain and public

trust. And this brings it to light once again.


I commend Chairman Cummings, Chairman Nadler. I hope that they will pursue

this very vigorously and promptly. This is not something we can let lie

around for additional months. These Air Force officials need to be

subpoenaed in. They`ve had an opportunity to respond. We need to know the

facts of how much taxpayer money may be wasted.


We know much has already been wasted just in sending so many people to

Trump resorts within the United States. But this appears to be now an

international issue of tax money wasted just as Donald Trump has also done

plenty of tax dodging apparently.


REID:  And you are a plaintiff, congressman, in one of these cases

emoluments case, I should note.




REID:  The question then becomes, because this isn`t just a waste of

taxpayer money. There seems to be a pattern of a lot of spending of federal

money. He also would like to make that international by making the G7 be

hosted at another struggling resort of his in Florida.


You`ve got all of the money the Secret Service is paying every time they

have to service him in one of his resorts.


DOGGETT:  Indeed.


REID:  You got himself staying at his resorts more than 213 times at

taxpayer expense. There is a pattern of enrichment of the Trump

Organization, meaning himself, right?




REID:  And he didn`t (inaudible) at this.


DOGGETT:  It actually begins as you know, Joy, just a few blocks down

Pennsylvania Avenue from the White House where one foreign potentate after

another stays at the ultra luxurious Trump International hotel. That`s

really part of what started our emoluments lawsuit. And now it`s just one

thing on top of another.


And yes, I believe it`s a constitutional violation and should form part of

the basis of this key impeachment inquiry. We need that inquiry to move

forward. The Trump administration thinks that they can avoid this by delay.


And whenever we delay on the Democratic side and fail to pursue the public

interest particularly after an investigation like this, we`re really just

advancing Trump`s defense. We need to move forward directly and



REID:  Let me bring Charlie Sykes into this because, Charlie, what – one

thing I do not understand, you hear supporters of Donald Trump say they

don`t care even if he is taking money from military schools –




REID:  – because they`re like, we need the wall so to them it`s worth it,

right? They don`t care what he does and who he takes and steals money from

within the government as long as they get the wall.


This seems different. This is actually directly putting money in his own

pocket and using the military as a cover. Is this going to fly with Trump



SYKES:  Assuming the story holds up which I think it probably will, and

assuming there is not an innocent explanation. This is an astonishing story

that takes the naked graph that we`ve been seeing to a whole new level.


Because what you are having, as you just put it, is you`re having the

president of the United States taking money from the military, taking money

from the troops, taking money from National Security and putting it in his

own pocket. That strikes me as a different category that a lot of the other

things that we`ve been talking about.


I mean, I don`t know that voters in Wisconsin and Michigan are going to be

moved by terms like the emoluments clause, but they will understand that

here is a president who has wrapped himself in the military and a national

security, looting our military, our men and women in uniform, for his own

personal benefit.


And this comes, the one-two punch, taking money from the schools, making

safe schools for the children of the troops to pay for his wall. I do think

this is a really significant challenge for the president. I think it`s

going to be a significant challenge even for members of his base who have

not moved on any of this stuff before.


But also, it is an indication of just how aggressive and open the president

has become in his graft. That he feels he has gotten away with this and

that he has become emboldened, but I think this may cross a red line for a

lot of voters.


REID:  And Congressman Doggett, will this cross a line for the leadership

in the House of Representatives because this is so open now? This isn`t

just William Barr –


DOGGETT:  I certainly hope so.


REID:  – throwing a party at his hotel, which is bad enough. Is this going

to move the leadership?


DOGGETT:  I hope so. This is not a time for more timidity, for a tepid

approach. And of course we not only need to move the house leadership but

to find at least one Republican who is not already retired to stop enabling

this president.


Just as the president has pushed the limits again and again on graft, he

has pushed the limits with his Republican enablers and the more they let

him get away with, the more he grabs for power, for personal gain. That`s

what we`ve got to bring a stop to in working immediately on this



REID:  And we know that the House Judiciary Committee is preparing to take

its first formal vote for “Politico” to define what Chairman Jerry Nadler

says is an ongoing impeachment investigation of Donald Trump according to

multiple sources briefed on discussion as the panel could vote as early as

Wednesday on a resolution to spell out the parameters of the investigation.

Let me quickly jump to Bryan Bender. I know this isn`t your story, but any

reporting on what the whip count looks like on that?


BENDER:  It`s a good question. It`s not really something I`ve been tracking

but you know, to Charlie`s earlier point, I think it is important to say

there are unanswered questions about this particular case involving the

resort in Scotland.


The Air Force has not explained why this decision was made. I talked to a

senior Air Force official today. He was not aware of this but I laid out

the facts as we were able to uncover them, and his response was, quite

frankly, wow, that`s really weird. That doesn`t sound right. Why would they

do this?


So the question in my mind is, is there some message from above that you

guys got to start staying at this resort, spending money on Trump

properties, or is it the brass trying to please the president? Either way,

it`s probably not a good thing.


But I do think there is a discussion going on now and the Pentagon is going

to be under a lot more pressure to answer the House committees, which they

haven`t done in more than two months in this particular issue.


REID:  Yes. Very quickly, Charlie, if they don`t answer, if the military

continues to stonewall, then what?


SYKES:  Yes. Well, then I think you need to go to the most aggressive

tactics because, again, if there was an innocent explanation for this, and

there may be an innocent explanation for this, wouldn`t we have heard it by



And, of course, we`ve seen the way this president operates with the weather

service, you know, are they on the phones right now telling people in the

Air Force, you have to put out a statement that this is completely kosher

(ph), that it`s all completely OK?


REID:  Yes.


SYKES:  So, I think this story – this story is going to play out very,

very quickly and they have different layers as the president finds – tries

to find a way to get the military aligned with what`s happening now.


REID:  And will they get in line, very quickly.


NANCE:  I`m going to tell you the explanation that they`re going to give

you eventually here. The Air Force and Secretary of Defense are going to

say that crew was being used to evaluate support to the Secret Service and

the White House in case the president stays at that site and that they were

just doing a mobility transport assessment and that it won`t happen again.


REID:  If the military is willing to do that then what? Because if they are

willing to cover for him, then that is scary than the NOAA covering for

him. It absolutely is.


NANCE:  Yes. Absolutely. That is what it`s going to be.


REID:  Bryan Bender, great reporting. Thank you very much for being here.

Really appreciate you joining us. Congressman Lloyd Doggett, thank you.

Charlie Sykes and Malcolm Nance, thank you all for joining us, really

appreciate it.


Coming up, “Politico” reported today that four states is set to cancel

their 2020 Republican presidential primaries and caucuses, of course. And

one primary challenger to Donald Trump said the Trump campaign is scared to

death of a primary challenge because the Trump presidency is flailing.

That`s next.




REID:  Tonight we`re going to talk about fear. Namely the increasingly

obvious fear that Donald Trump and his team are feeling about 2020.

“Politico” reported today that four states are set to cancel their 2020

Republican presidential primaries and caucuses.


South Carolina, Nevada, Arizona, and Kansas are all expected to finalize

the cancellations in meetings this weekend. The move would cut off some

much needed oxygen to Trump`s long shot primary challengers, former

Massachusetts governor Bill Welt, former Illinois congressman Joe Walsh,

and possibly former South Carolina governor and congressman, Mark Sanford.


And let`s be clear. None of these challengers are polling within a mile of

Donald Trump who currently enjoys near complete devotion among the

Republican base. So why cut off the challengers? Why strand his potential

opponents if team Trump is confident that he will be the 2020 Republican

nominee? What are the state parties so afraid of? Or are they not the ones

who are afraid?


“Politico” reports the primary cancellations stem in part from months of

behind-the-scenes maneuvering by the Trump campaign. Aides have worked to

ensure total control of the party machinery, installing staunch loyalists

at state parties while eliminating potential detractors.


The aim, Trump`s officials have long said, is to smooth the path to the

president`s re-nomination. Again, why would they need to do that if they

are so confident that Trump can beat the likes of two ex-governors and a

former one-term congressman? Here`s Joe Walsh reacting to the news a few

hours ago on “The Beat.”





they`re scared to death of this president having any other name on a

primary ballot against him because he is imploding day by day. I think

they`re afraid. Look, that`s not a sign of strength. You want to eliminate

elections? You want to like take away the will of the people? You don`t do

that if you`re a big, strong guy.




REID:  OK, now Joe Walsh is not right about a lot of things but he`s kind

of got a point there. And while statistically none of the challengers is

really threatening Trump`s re-nomination right now, consider this

statistic. Since 1976 no incumbent president who has faced a serious

primary challenge has gone on to win re-election. Not one.


Here`s how “Vanity Fair`s” Peter Hamby put the threat Trump faces. “If

Trump`s fitness for office becomes a viable conversation piece among

Republicans and Republican leaning independents, for even just a few weeks

next January or during the primaries in February, they will have

accomplished something that nobody in politics has even bothered to attempt

this campaign year; talking to center right swing voters who are

uncomfortable with the man in the White House.”


A primary might be the only chance to open up space between Trump and the

Republicans who are looking for permission to vote against him next year.

And it`s not just the cancellation of primaries that seems to signal fear

from Trump world about the election.


According to Yahoo News, the president is panicking about his own V.P.

Behind the scenes, tensions have been mounting among Trump, Pence, and

their top advisers ever since the GOP`s resounding losses in the 2018



In the weeks afterward, Trump asked aides about replacing Pence on the

ticket and he again – he asked again for their thoughts on Pence during

his August vacation according to Trump advisers. NBC News has not yet

confirmed that reporting.


But the Yahoo story is one more data point indicating that the Trump

campaign is not superbly confident 14 months out from the election and that

they`re willing to do almost anything to change the state of the race.


We`re joined now by Professor John Sides who studies the behavior of the

American electorate at Vanderbilt University. He is the author of the book

“Identity Crisis: The 2016 Presidential Campaign and the Battle for the

Meaning of America.”


Also joining us, Tiffany Cross, co-founder and managing editor of The Beat

D.C. and Charlie Sykes is also back with us. John, I`m going to go to you

first just for some statistical analysis of this. The Trump campaign should

be very confident.


You know, there is sort of a cult of personality around him, among

Republicans. Almost none will ever leave him no matter what he does.

However, they are closing off the possibility of a primary. Does that

signal to you that they might actually be scared?



know if they`re scared or not but I do know that when presidents have

traditionally faced primary challenges that have been at least modestly

successful, you know, there are presidents who are dealing with rickety or

even plummeting economies, whose approval ratings are not particularly



And Trump is looking at some economic uncertainty given the jobs report

today and other indicators and his approval rating is still stuck in the

low 40s which is not a solid position for an incumbent president.


REID:  And so, let me to go to you on this – are you still a Republican,

Charlie? You`re still a registered Republican, because the thing is that

the Trump – he likes to speak very confidently about the economy, about

his chance of re-election.


SYKES:  Yes.


REID:  But the things he is doing seem to be the forestall even the, you

know, tiniest possibility that he could be challenged. That does not sound

like confidence to me.


SYKES:  No, and by the way, I describe myself as a political orphan. No,

this move does not exude confidence, particularly given the fact that the

polls would suggest that he is, you know, in the upper 80s when it comes to



But I also think there are some other numbers. There have been surveys

showing that at least 40 percent or around 40 percent of Republican primary

voters might be open to the idea of somebody else. There might be willing

to vote for a protest candidate.


So, for example, if these three long shot candidates together get what, 36,

38 percent of the vote in one of the early primaries, suddenly Donald Trump

looks more vulnerable. The hashtag winning is affected.


So I do think that there is a little bit looking over their shoulder. But

there is the other issue, does the Republican Party really want to become

full Trumpian? Do they want to not leave themselves any off ramp? Do they

not want to have any daylight between themselves and this president who may

be going into 2020 with a whole host of political problems like the story

that we talked about in the previous segment?


REID:  I turn now to my fellow skeptic on the idea of political conversion.

Tiffany Cross, we have this conversational all the time –




REID:  – that there are no real converts. At least I don`t – I have not

seen evidence that there are a lot of political converts, but what do you

make of this because there is evidence that at least the Trump people are



CROSS:  Right. So, it`s weird because I think the people around Trump might

be afraid but Donald Trump does seem surprisingly confident in my opinion.

I mean, look, he wants to be adored. It`s not enough for him to be elected.


REID:  Right.


CROSS:  He wants to be – have the love of the people. But, you know, this

is a man who has treated this presidency like a teenager testing their

boundaries. It`s like oh, well, let me see if I can get away with this next



And I think a part of that reason is because he keeps a tight circle for

the people who really know what is happening, who really know the dirt. And

I just think with all the U.S. intelligence agencies coming out saying,

look, we definitely have foreign adversaries interfering with our

elections. What does Trump know? Why is he so confident? Because he

certainly does not seem nervous in that sense.


And regarding Nikki Haley, the rumors of her joining the ticket, you know,

possibly replacing her with Pence or Pence with her, I think that`s

something of note, but look, I will Nikki Haley is acting like somebody who

is going to run in 2024.


She is writing this book that`s coming out this year. She started this

organization, Stand for America, but does it matter who is on the ticket? I

don`t know. And it`s funny when Charlie said that, you know, the GOP

doesn`t want a lot of daylight. News flash! There is no daylight.


REID:  There is no daylight.


CROSS:  This is the party. Look at Roma (ph) McDaniel. She is a sycophant

for this man.


REID:  Ronna Romney McDaniel.


CROSS:  Right. Romney McDaniel. I`m sorry. She played her own distant

relative, you know, to support this president. So, it`s a weird, incestuous

fight happening in the Republican Party, but most people are sycophants.

They are falling right in line with this administration.


REID:  Let me give you John. John, as I`m going to read you to you. OK.

This is you in “Vanity Fair.” This is what you in “Vanity Fair” this is

what you wrote about potential - per the mention of Romney about

Romney/Clinton voters.


You wrote all in all back of the napkin math suggested around 5 million

voters supported Romney in 2012 but went on to back either Clinton or

conservative third party candidates in 2016. Whether they stay home in

2020, vote Democrat, vote their party or reluctantly vote for Trump this

time around the choices the center right voters make in 2020 will have an

impact on the margins when margins are everything.


So you are not talking about people who voted for Donald Trump who do seem

to be completely in for all and sort of not really winnable or movable.

What about these voters? These Romney to Clinton voters?


JOHN SIDES, EDITOR IN CHIEF THE MONKEY CAGE: We`re talking about maybe 5

percent of the American electorate that voted for Romney but then for voted

either Clinton or for a third party candidate in 2016. These are voters for

whom their 2020 outcome is far from certain.


Romney/Clinton voters as we`ve been tracking their views since 2016 looked

pretty strongly Democratic. They don`t approve of the President. They don`t

have a favorable view of them. They tend to devote for a - vote for a

Democratic house candidate in 2018.


Romney third party voters a little different they are not necessarily fans

of Trump. They have an overall unfavorable view but did tend to vote more

for Republicans in 2018. Right now if you ask them I think their views of

the 2020 race, they`re probably more likely to say Trump than a Democratic

candidate but a large number of them that are uncertain.


So the Romney Clinton voters might be increasingly loyal Democrats but the

Romney third party voters are still very much up for grabs.


REID: Charlie, do you believe those that a significant enough number of

those voters exists that it is worth Democrats spending money to try to get

them to vote for who are the Democratic nominee is?


CHARLIE SYKES, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF THE BULKWAR: I think they have to keep that

in mind. I think - probably talking about 3 percent to 5 percent. That is

enough to flip states like Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin. There are

the Romney/Clinton voters, people who voted for Barack Obama twice and then

voted for Donald Trump.


You don`t need to turn them around, but if he loses 1 percent, 2 percent of

the vote in Northern Wisconsin, people who are disgusted by what they are

seeing, that is going to flip the state. It`s all about the Electoral

College and will all be decided by those states he won by very, very narrow



Going back to this issue of the primary, you know, these candidates become

vehicles. None of them are going to beat Donald Trump and none of them will

be President. They are vehicles for protest votes. That is the kind of

thing that I think does keep some of the Trump folks up at night.


REID: And I will say that particularly like a Joe Walsh type of character

isn`t going to be the nominee but he fights like Trump fights so is there

some resonance to somebody who sounds the way Trump sounds then talking

about what Donald Trump is doing to his own kind of world?


CROSS: I don`t think so. I think these people are specifically devoted to

this President. We have to acknowledge that Bill Weld is polling in double

digits. Imagine if somebody was running against Obama polling in double

digits. They will get a lot more media attention of course, now trying to

cover this administration is lake trying to catch confetti so we can`t

cover it all.


I want to talk about Charlie`s point about, you know, kind of appealing to

some of those voters, you know, the Romney/Clinton voters. They`re still

Republicans, still ideological differences. When you try to appeal to those

people you do run the risk. How can you appeal to them and then come back

and talk to your base?


Why not double down on your base and encourage those people and inspire

those people to get out instead of again trying to appeal the Trump voters?

I mean, I just want to ask does the Trump vote just hit differently or

what? Why are so many people focused on trying to appeal to those people

who are typically Republicans?


I have never heard the Republican Party sitting around talking about how

can we get these Democrats to over to our side? Only Democrats do that. I

don`t know that is a winning strategy for Democrats.


REID: And I guess the math question then is, John Sides is just as a

statistical matter, are there more available Democratic voters who didn`t

vote last time people who stayed home or are there more of these

Romney/Clinton potential we don`t know whether they`re movable but those

voters? Which is a bigger pot?


SIDES: I think that is a really difficult piece of math in part because it

is hard to know exactly how many Democratic votes were left on the table

for Hillary Clinton in 2016. In my mind I think this may be a choice the

Democrats don`t have to make in some sense.


If you`re talking about Romney Clinton voters you`re talking about voters a

majority of whom want to impeach the President at least in terms of the

polling we`ve done in late 2018. So there may be certain kinds of voters

that are, have not been loyal Democrats for decades but are nevertheless

onboard with what Democratic candidates are likely to offer.


And so you`re able to mobilize the base and keep some of these kinds of

voters on your side. For other groups of voters like the Romney third party

voters I think that`s a more tricky question for Democrats. Their profile

is much more mixed.


REID: That`s always going to be the question. You got a hundred dollars

where are you going to spend it? The base are trying to move people over.

John Sides, Charlie Sykes, thank you for joining us. Really appreciate it.


All right, coming up two things that happened this week that were really

great for Vladimir Putin of course. Mike Pence backed Boris Johnson on

Brexit and Donald Trump took funds away from the military to divert money

to the precious, the border wall. What does that have to do with Russia?

We`ll go let`s find next.




REID: It`s time now to check in on how Trump Foreign Policy is working out

around the world. First to Iran where Donald Trump pulled the U.S. out of

the Iran nuclear deal which we learned from a leak earlier this summer from

memos from the former UK Ambassador to the U.S. Reportedly he did just to

spite President Obama. When he did it Trump insisted that it would be a

great thing however.





thing the U.S. is out of the Iran if it was ridiculous deal for the U.S.

and it`s a ridiculous deal for the world.




REID: Well, about that now Donald Trump has decided, that if the U.S. does

- I mean that Iran has decided that if the U.S. doesn`t have to honor the

agreement which involved the U.S. and also Europe neither do they.


This week Iran announced that it would abandon constraints on nuclear

research set out in the 2015 nuclear deal. This is Iran`s third violation

of the nuclear agreement since Donald Trump quit the deal and imposed more



Who could have predicted there could be such serious repercussions? It

turns out for CIA. “The New York Times” magazine reports a year before

Trump pulled out of the deal according to an American official the Central

Intelligence Agency circulated a classified assessment trying to predict

how Iran would respond in the event that the Trump Administration hardened

its line.


It`s conclusion was simple. Radical elements of the government could be

empowered and moderates sidelined and Iran might try to exploit a

diplomatic rupture to unleash an attack in Persian Gulf Iraq or elsewhere

in the Middle East.


On to American allies, Mike Pence went to London where new Prime Minister

Boris Johnson suffered a series of humiliating defeats this week after his

own party rebelled against the plan for a hard Brexit. Boris Johnson can

always count on Donald Trump.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He said you tell my friend Prime Minister Boris Johnson

that we`re ready to go to work on the free trade agreement just as soon as

you are ready and again to make it clear to you that the United States

supports the UK`s decision to leave the EU and we`re ready to build this

economic relationship immediately.




REID: Edward Luis the U.S National Editor for “The Financial Times” tweeted

no one should have the slightest doubt that Trump-Pence are trying to kill

the European Union and that Putin is the Chief beneficiary to which Michael

McFaul the Former U.S. Ambassador to Russia tweeted agreed.


And they have other multi lateral organizations on their kill list. And as

to Donald Trump`s decision to divert $3.6 billion in military funds to his

border wall it turns out hundreds of millions of those dollars will be

coming out of European defense.


Just security reports that the redirected money “Includes more than $770

million from an initiative started by the Obama Administration to shore up

European defense after Russia`s invasion of Ukraine in 2014.” The cuts

which include upgrades to airfields in Slovakia, ammunition storage in

Poland and special operation forces facilities in Estonia come at a time

when the Trump Administration is also withholding $250 million in military

assistance to Ukraine.


When we come back Malcolm Nance will join us to discuss the exactly who is

benefiting from the chaos that Trump is exacerbating in Europe and Iran.

That`s next.




REID: Iran announced that it will no longer abide by the 2015 nuclear

deal`s limits on nuclear research. This is just the latest violation of the

deal since Donald Trump pulled out of the historic international agreement

and imposed harsher sanctions.


“The New York Times” reports that, “The President - the present crisis has

drawn the United States and Israel and their self-confident leaders even

closer together. If it looks like the United States is going to do whatever

Israel`s bidding is on any issue then I think the United States loses any



Former CIA Director Leon Panetta said “Our fundamental goal has to be

protect our national security interests. What is in the interests of the

United States?” Back with us is Malcolm Nance, and he is back with us by



Malcolm, let me read you one more quote from this article. This is the

quote really quickly from this “The New York Times” magazine article. “In

the last 30 years I appeared innumerable times in the American media and

met thousands of American leaders Netanyahu says. I developed a certain

ability to influence public opinion and that is the most important thing,

the ability to sway public opinion in the United States against the regime

in Iran.


He certainly has had an influence on Donald Trump but is it in the United

States` national interest to become more aggressive toward Iran and for

them to be out of the deal and apparently free to enrich Uranium?



Netanyahu is right that he has been extremely influential on the United

States. In fact, he was one of the main architects who got us to invade,

got George W. Bush to invade Iraq in 2003 believing that Iraq would be

toppled; it would take away this threat against Israel, and would establish

a U.S. base to counter Iran in the Middle East.


That was completely and absolutely wrong. He is also right that the United

States is now working very closely with Israel, almost as we are one

entity. The only thing that doesn`t seem to factor well for him is the fact

that Russia is also involved in this. And Russia is now helping Iran skirt

oil sanctions, and of course would like to see the nuclear deal fall apart

because then they can have closer ties with Iran just as well as they`re

having closer ties with Donald Trump and Israel.


So all of these things worked in Israel`s best interests but they don`t

necessarily work in the best interests of the United States because

engineering or sabotaging any component of the nuclear agreement from

Barack Obama`s puts Iran on the fast track to developing atomic bombs.


REID: And maybe not just them. President Erdogan of Turkey said the

following. Some countries have missiles with nuclear warheads not one or

two but they tell us we can`t have them. This I cannot accept. We have

Israel nearby as almost neighbors.


They scare other nations by possessing these. No one can touch them

referring to the fact Israel is a nuclear power as well. If Iran is out of

the deal and free to enrich Uranium what is to stop Turkey or other

countries, the Saudis or anyone else who wants them from getting them, too?


NANCE: It is not a question so much of them building the indigenous nuclear

programs. There is a fast track way to becoming a nuclear power and that is

to put a hundred billion dollars on the table and see if Pakistan will give

you an atomic bomb because they have atomic bombs and they have an interest

in the Muslim world to maintaining a counterbalance to Israel as well.


So Erdogan by making these noises actually just expressing the Pandora`s

Box that Donald Trump opened up during the campaign for presidency in 2016

when he said he didn`t have a problem with Saudi Arabia and the United Arab

Emirates and other countries who may want atomic bombs.


We may be on the threshold of a new nuclear era where countries like this

think that it is in their national interest but Israel, itself, will now

have to produce more atomic bombs of course to counter those. And someone

eventually is going to want to use one.


REID: Let`s move really quickly. Obviously Iran - if Iran becomes a nuclear

power that benefits Vladimir Putin. There is this other story about the

Trump Administration withholding military aid from Ukraine. The Washington

Post Editorial Board saying they`re trying to force them to help out with

the election by digging up some sort of dirt on Joe Biden to help Donald

Trump win re-election.


Donald Trump may be asked his national security team to review this funding

program that helps defend Ukraine against Russian aggression. What do you

make of the fact that Donald Trump seems to be essentially turning against

the NATO alliances ideas about the ways to defend Europe from Russia?


NANCE: If this story turns out to be true, then you`re just looking at

straight-up extortion by the President of the United States. Believe me;

somebody in the Ukrainian government is going to spill the beans because

they are of all things Anti-Moscow.


If they think they`re not going to get Anti-Tank guided missiles this year

to defend against this Russian invasion of the Southern Ukraine region

which is ethnically Russian, which Russia wants to occupy, then the easiest

thing for them to do is actually have those discussions between the

President of the United States exposed to the media. And they can do

extortion of their own. So at some point this story is going to break out

much bigger than we think it is right now.


REID: The winner seems to be Vladimir Putin. Malcolm Nance, thank you so

much for joining us. We really appreciate it. Thank you.


NANCE: My pleasure.


REID: All right, and coming up, the death toll in the Bahamas has risen

again now to 43. I will get an update on the situation from the Deputy

Prime Minister of the Bahamas next.




REID: We have breaking news tonight from the Bahamas where the official

death toll has now risen to 43. The spokesperson for the Prime Minister

says that number is expected to grow significantly as frustrated survivors

are desperately scrambling to evacuate the hurricane-devastated Islands.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s no more marsh harbor.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nothing. Our hopes gone and everything gone.


UNIDENTIFIE FEMALE: If we get a little bit of water now, when we finish,

where to go? Where to find water?




REID: Hundreds of people waited in line for hours to catch a plane or a

ferry as food and clean water are running out. New supplies are slow to

reach the people who need them. As of today the U.S. coast guard rescued

more than 200 people, but more than 6,500 remain unaccounted for and

hospitals are overwhelmed.


The Prime Minister is asking residents to be patient, assuring them that

help is on the way. But there is one survivor told the associated press

“It`s chaos here, the government is trying their best, but at the same time

I don`t think they`re going a good enough job to evacuate the people. It

ain`t livable for nobody, only animals can live here:


Joining us now by phone from Freeport is Peter Turnquest, the Deputy Prime

Minister of the Bahamas. And sir, thank you so much for being here. I just

want to ask you the situation in the Bahamas right now, describe to us how

difficult it is and what kind of help that you`re receiving?



evening. I want to first just to emphasize that the Bahamas is a chain of

Islands and that the Nassau, our capital, as well as our other family

Islands are not affected by this storm and are fully up and functioning as



The Islands of Abaco and Grand Bahaman were, in fact, directly impacted by

the storm. That has caused significant damage to both Islands. Marsh

Harbor, Abaco, the capital of that Island sustained a direct hit. And it

caused catastrophic damage to that community.


Similarly, on the eastern side of Grand Bahamas, which also was affected by

the eye of the storm, similarly received significant damage. And so the

loss is significant. You`ve indicated the official death count at the

moment is 43, 35 persons in Abaco and eight persons in Grand Bahaman. We do

expect that that will likely rise. But we certainly pray that what we

expect, as we go forward with our search and rescue missions.


REID: And where are people who are being evacuated being evacuated to?

Where are people being taken when they`re being removed from the places

that are not inhabitable?


TURNQUEST: Those persons who wish to be evacuated from Abaco in particular,

they are going to family and friends in the providence, Nassau. Others are

being taken to Grand Bahaman, to unaffected areas and for Grand Bahamians

who want to be taken to family in Nassau while the infrastructure is being

rebuilt, they may find more comfort in being with family in Nassau.


So in both instances, the government is providing evacuation options for

the residents to relocate if that is their desire. Some obviously will

choose to stay because they want to get on with the process of

reconstructing their lives and their homes. We need people obviously to

help rebuild. Those who wish to be evacuated are, in fact, being

accommodated in that regard in providence tore other family Islands.


REID: And what about the situation with water and the lack of water in

places where it`s needed? How is that being addressed?


TURNQUEST: So the water for sanitary purposes is a challenge at the moment.

However, thanks to our international friends and partners, we`ve been able

to supply the need to those residents that remain on the Island.


At this point I do want to thank all of our international partners, United

States, the United Kingdom, Canada, Cayman Islands, Caribbean, who have

pitched in and done a tremendous job in helping us to work our way through

this significant event.


REID: And very quickly, where can people go if they want to help? Is there

a website or someplace people can go if they want to do not or help?


TURNQUEST: Sure. You can go on to the government of the Bahamas website,, or you can check with our consulate or embassies at states

or Canada or United Kingdom.


REID: Peter Turnquest, Deputy Prime Minister of Bahamas, thank you very

much. Thinking of you there in the Bahamas so thank you so much for some of

your time tonight.


TURNQUEST: Thank you. No worries at all. Thank you.


REID: Thank you very much. That is tonight`s Last Word. I`m Joy Reid. You

can catch me tomorrow and Sunday morning on “AM Joy” starting at 10 am

eastern right here on MSNBC. And “The 11th Hour With Brian Williams” starts



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tonight a stormy week comes to an end with Donald Trump

wrestling with the national media.







Copyright 2019 ASC Services II Media, LLC.  All materials herein are

protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced,

distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the

prior written permission of ASC Services II Media, LLC. You may not alter

or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the