Show: THE LAST WORD WITH LAWRENCE O`DONNELL Date: February 26, 2018 Guest: Kurt Andersen, Eric Swalwell
LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: Good evening, Rachel. I bring greetings from Dublin, where I spent the weekend. You have an astonishing number of fans in Dublin.
RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST, "TRMS": Dublin, Ireland?
O`DONNELL: Dublin, Ireland. That Dublin.
MADDOW: Really?
O`DONNELL: Yes. They love you.
MADDOW: Wow.
I grew up next to a town called Dublin, California, I was like, why you were hanging out in my high school parking lot.
O`DONNELL: Well, that could explain the devotion to you in Dublin, Ireland. It might just be every Dublin. That`s what it might be.
MADDOW: Well done. That`s very nice. Thank you.
O`DONNELL: And, Rachel, I know -- you`ve done a great job. You`ve got to get home. But the only incentive you may have for trying to catch some of this show is, this is serious jet lag TV. I woke up in Dublin this morning. So I may forget how Donald Trump is half way through this thing.
MADDOW: So, your show could be like an action movie, like there could be unexpected tipping and topping, there could be swear words, there could be all sorts of stuff?
O`DONNELL: Anything that could go long I think is likely to go wrong tonight. That`s just one next.
MADDOW: God bless you, my friend. Good bye.
O`DONNELL: Thank you, Rachel.
MADDOW: Thank you.
O`DONNELL: Well, in the fantasyland that is Trump world, the character named Donald Trump who is played by the man Donald Trump is a truth telling super hero, not a pathological liar and most cowardly president the United States has ever had. No president has ever exhibited the cowardice toward Russia and Vladimir Putin that Donald Trump has.
The United States has never had a president so cowardly as to refuse to even comment on the Chinese government moving back toward authoritarianism by eliminating term limits for its president who is now in a position to become president for life. Every previous president, Democrat and Republican, would have expressed some kind of disappointment in diplomatic language, some kind of objection to China taking this disturbing step back into democracy.
But not Donald Trump. All he has ever been able to say about the president of China is I like him. Nothing else. As if nothing else matters.
And so, today, the most abjectly cowardly man who has ever occupied the presidency of the United States said something that no previous president, including the presidents who were shot at in combat, would have said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You know, I really believe you don`t know until you test it, but I think I really believe I`d run in there even if I didn`t have a weapon. And I think most of the people in the room would have done that too because I know most of you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Donald Trump, who like most of us, has never run toward the sound of gun fire in his life, says he would have done that in Parkland, Florida, at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School to save children he is not related to. Consider for a moment how he has treated the children he is related to. Here he is on a rainy day this year protecting his hair as his hair climbs the stairs of Air Force One.
At first, he seems to be alone in the rain. But then, his 11-year-old son appears behind him. The son he left behind in the rain because protecting his hair is more important than protecting his son. He also left his third and current wife behind him in the rain. She`s used to that. She handled it the way she always does as if she and Donald Trump are just two strangers boarding the same airplane.
Donald Trump Jr. went ten years not speaking to his father because of the way his father treated his mother. There is no hint that Donald Trump was ever troubled by that break in contact with his first set of children with his first wife. He actually bragged about being disinterested in the lives of his children.
So, it is that man who asked us to believe today that he would have been the super hero of the Stoneman Douglas shooting and he would have been doing it for other people`s children.
Before Donald Trump entered the business of tricking believers in fantasy to vote for him, he did not pretend to be a super hero.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I`m not good for medical. You know, in other words, like if you cut like your finger and there`s blood pouring out.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re gone?
TRUMP: I`m gone. I`ll tell you what happened, I was at Mar-a-Lago and we had this incredible ball, the Red Cross ball in Palm Beach, Florida. So, you had all these rich people, and a man, about 80 years old, very wealthy man, a lot of people didn`t like him, he fell off the stage.
So, what happen is this guy falls off on his face, hits his head, I thought he died. You know what I did, I said, oh my god, that`s disgusting and I turned away.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
O`DONELL: Oh, my god, that`s disgusting and I turned away. That`s the only story we have of Donald Trump`s reaction to another human being in distress, possibly fatal distress, another human being whose life is in danger. Oh, my god, that`s disgusting, and I turned away.
There`s more to the story.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
TRUMP: You know, he was right in front of me, I turned away. I didn`t want to touch him. He`s bleeding all over the place, I feel terrible. You know, beautiful marble floor, didn`t look so good. It changed color, it became very red.
And you have this poor guy, 80 yeas old, laying on the floor, conscious, and all of the rich people are turning away, oh my god, this is terrible, this is disgusting. And, you know, they`re turning away, nobody wants to help the guy. His wife is screaming, she`s sitting right next to him, she`s screaming.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: She`s screaming. Donald Trump insisted today that if he heard screaming from inside a school, that he would run toward the screaming. He would run toward the assault rifle that was causing that screaming.
But in his own telling of a shocked woman screaming about her husband possibly dying on the floor beside her and beside Donald Trump, all Donald Trump is concerned about is, quote, the beautiful marble floor. It didn`t look so good. It changed colors. It was very red.
And the Trump story of the injured man on the floor, the man didn`t die. But Donald Trump was very proud of being utterly indifferent to whether the man lived or died. After the man suffered his life threatening accident on a Donald Trump property, Donald Trump didn`t bother to make a phone call to see how he was doing.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
TRUMP: I forgot to call to say is he OK? He was OK. It`s just not my thing.
So, you know --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You were afraid of catching a disease through the phone.
TRUMP: It`s not even disease. I just don`t like looking at blood.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: I just don`t like looking at blood. Just not my thing.
Today, a super hero Trump character asked Americans in the world to believe that he would have run into that school that was filled with blood, and he would have run into that school to save children and he would have done it even if he didn`t have a weapon. And in classic Trump style, knowing that he was stretching even his strongest supporters` abilities to believe in that fantasy, he made everyone in that room with him complicit in his lie.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I really believe I would run in even if I didn`t have a weapon and I think most of the people in that room would have done that too because I know most of you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Most of them would not have done it. Heroes are called heroes because they do things that most of us would not do. And that`s what Donald Trump doesn`t understand. And that`s what Donald Trump disgraced today. He disgraced the very concept of hero by trying to steal that concept for himself.
Most people would not run toward the sound of gun fire in that school. Most parents might. Most parents of the children in that school probably would run toward that gun fire to try to save their children. But most of the 39 governors that the president was speaking to today when he said that would absolutely not run into that school with or without a weapon to save the children in that school who they did not know.
There is a debate among some Trump observers on the question of is Donald Trump a liar or is he delusional? It doesn`t have to be either or. He can be sometimes a fully conscious liar and at other times fully delusional. This appears to be a case where he knew he was lying about himself, which is why he roped everyone else in the room. That was a choice to use everyone in the room to insulate him from his own lie.
Donald Trump came in second for the vote for president and first in the Electoral College, with a coalition of voters, some of whom were clearly rational. The voters, for example, who simply wanted lower taxes and they didn`t care about anything else or the voters who are opposed to all abortions and don`t care about anything else, or the voters who want to be very tough on immigration and the southern border.
Those are policy-based votes, you can disagree with them, but they are policy based votes. But Donald Trump could not have won the Electoral College without the hate-based vote that turned out for him, the racists, the public white supremacists like David Duke, and a very, very important component of the Trump vote, the believers in fantasy.
Donald Trump would not be president tonight if millions of his voters were not living in the grip of fantasy, fantasy that Donald Trump is a super hero. So the worst thing for America today about what Donald Trump said is not so much that the pathological liar lied once again, it`s that some unknown number of utterly delusional Americans will believe that Donald Trump would have run in there even if he didn`t have a weapon.
The president`s daughter was asked this weekend by NBC`s Peter Alexander if she believes her father or the women who have accused her father of sexual assault and sexual harassment, and she said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
IVANKA TRUMP, FIRST DAUGHTER: I believe my father. I know my father. So I think I have that right, as a daughter, to believe my father.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: OK. Do you believe your mother? Do you believe your mother, who accused your father of raping her? Is that one of the reasons your brother, Donald Trump Jr. did not speak to your father for ten years?
We`ll have more on that interview with Ivanka Trump later in this hour. But that interview occurred before her father said, I`d run in there even if I didn`t have a weapon. Does Ivanka Trump believe her father would do that? Does Ivanka Trump believe her father would run toward the sound of gun fire to save children even if he didn`t have a weapon?
Is there any chance that Ivanka Trump would try to say, I believe my father about that horrible lie? Or would Ivanka Trump offer some wordy variation on the White House press secretary`s answer to that today?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARAH HUCKABEE SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I think he was just stating as a leader, he would have stepped in and hopefully been able to help as a number of individuals that were in the school, the coach and other adults, and even a lot of the students stepped up and helped protect other students. I think the point he was making is that he would have wanted to play a role in that as well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Even the White House press secretary, who has been willing to support virtually ever lying fantasy President Trump offers was unable to say, of course, he would have run in there even if he didn`t have a weapon. Ivanka Trump will no doubt revert to her practice of hiding from reporters for the foreseeable future. In the meantime, chaos and madness will be piled upon chaos and madness in the Trump White House in today`s fantasy of Trump as super hero will be far behind us so that she will never probably be asked if her father would have run in there if he didn`t have a weapon.
But if she is asked that question, this, this will absolutely not be her answer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
IVANKA TRUMP: I believe my father. I know my father. So I think I have that right as a daughter to believe my father.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Joining us now, Tim O`Brien, the executive editor of "Bloomberg View", the author of "Trump Nation: The Art of Being the Donald". He`s an MSNBC contributor.
Also with us, Kurt Andersen, who`s the author of the book, "Fantasyland: How America Went Haywire". And Jennifer Rubin is joining us, a conservative opinion writer at "The Washington Post" and MSNBC contributor.
And, Jennifer, before I get to my Trump scholars who`ve been studying him for decades, I wanted to start with you on the dimensions of this lie that the president told today because here we have 17 dead in Florida and certainly more than 17 families wondering what might have been, what could have been, how could this have been different, and for the president to insert himself and say, if only Donald Trump were there, if only Donald Trump were there, your child might be alive today. For him to insert himself into that grief with this ugly fantasy is such -- in my view such a vile violation of the grieving that is going on in Florida. Something only Donald Trump would be capable of.
JENNIER RUBIN, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: It is always about Donald Trump, even the death of 17 people, including the death of children. It`s always about Donald Trump.
The truth be told, of course, he`s a five-time deferred wannabe. He has to equate going to boarding school or avoiding sexually transmitted diseases to his own Vietnam.
He`s afraid of blood. He`s afraid of sharks. He`s afraid of germs. He`s afraid of Vladimir Putin, he`s afraid of Robert Mueller.
This is a man who is deeply, deeply insecure, deeply damaged. And so I think he makes up for it with this ridiculous, pompous boasting that probably no one, even he does at some point, believes it.
But it is galling. And it`s particularly galling because in the job he`s elected to do, we don`t ask that he run into buildings. We simply ask that he be true to the United States, that he stand up for America, that he stand up to our enemies, that he take a stand when a foreign power, for example, meddles in our election and even that he cannot do.
So regardless of whether he thinks he could run into a building or he doesn`t think he could run into a building, the man is a coward. He will always be a coward, he was in his personal life and has been as president. And as far as he tries to spin his way out of that, that`s a reality that I think most Americans in their hearts know.
O`DONNELL: Tim, Donald Trump hid behind lawyers his entire life, including dealing with you and other reporters, so I don`t think there`s anyone other than the most -- the people who have absolutely no connection to fact who can imagine Donald Trump doing what he said he would do today. But his ability to step into the grieving process that`s going on in Florida and in a larger sense around the country, and say, you know, this could have been completely different if I was there.
TIM O`BRIEN, AUTHOR, TRUMPNATION: This is not a new performance by Donald Trump. In the 1980s, two of his casino executives were killed in a helicopter crash on their way to Atlantic City and he was interviewed the day of the crash, I believe, about how he felt about it and what the loss of the executives meant to him, and he turned the whole thing into a yarn of how he just missed getting on the helicopter and thank goodness because if he would have been on the helicopter, he would have died too.
And rather than consoling the families or talking about the services these executives provided to his company, he sat around and talked about himself. And you`re seeing this repeated again with the Parkland shootings. Rather than get into the nuances of gun control or go out of his way to involve himself with grieving families and traumatized students, he uses the moment for self-aggrandizement. This is in keeping the way he`s always rolled.
And I think most of the time he`s boasting, he`s boasting about things he`s most deeply insecure about. I`m worth $10 billion I`m a rich guy, when he`s not. I`m a really smart guy. I went to Wharton, when he`s not particularly bright. And I`m a super hero, I`d run into a building when there`s gun fire to save all the students, when I don`t think he`d get anywhere near any of it.
O`DONNELL: Kurt, one of the defenses you were seeing from the president up until today when he started calling the officers who did not go in cowards, some people were saying, well, Trump isn`t saying he would have gone in himself, well, now he is.
KURT ANDERSEN, AUTHOR, FANTASYLAND: And now, the defense subsequent to that is, he`s not saying he would have saved the day, but that he would have gone in. Well, for -- but, of course, he`s saying he would have gone in. And as you`re suggesting among his many lies in his life, it`s among the most preposterous. And anybody who has a sense of not just him but reality and anybody without a child there would do, who isn`t a police officer, running in unarmed it`s ridiculous.
So, there are those people as you say who will continue to support and believe him because they are his true believers and can accommodate any fantasy to keep that up. But let`s remember what he said about his true believers when he was president. They would support me even if I shot somebody in the middle of Fifth Avenue.
That`s how shooting has come up in his various fantasies before, he could shoot somebody and they would love me. Well, he could say he would go in there unarmed and into the hail of semiautomatic weapons fire and I guess they`ll still believe him and he`s got a point.
O`DONNELL: And, Jennifer, the brave Donald Trump is already backing away from what he said he was willing to do on gun legislation after having lunch with the NRA.
RUBIN: Yes. Wouldn`t you know?
Donald Trump always wants to be the hero and never can quite bring himself to do so. He did the same thing on Dreamers, he loves Dreamers, he`s going to take care of the Dreamers, he then threatens to veto the only bill that possibly could spare them deportation.
He really wants to do something about guns. He`s really going to do it. He feels terrible. Let`s have lunch with the NRA and forget about it.
So, he can always play the hero. He always wants to be the star. But he never has the guts, he never has the tenacity to go against his party`s whacky base. He never has the nerve to stand up to people who he perceives as powerful.
Instead, he surrounds himself by people who are powerful and he completely misunderstands the notion of valor. Remember, poor James Mattis had to talk him out of a policy of torture, because that`s what Donald Trump thinks soldiers do. He has no conception that American soldiers are bound by the laws of war and the laws of United States.
Similarly, he likes to be around police officers he told them to go ahead and rough up your suspects. He has no idea that police officers, the vast, vast majority of them take an oath and behave in exemplary fashion. So, Donald Trump is always trying to be one of the guys, he`s always trying to be the hero, but he never can be because he`s not made of the stuff. He`s an empty damaged, soul.
You know, if he was a decent person I would care about it, but frankly the only care is this behavior is damaging to the country and frankly appalling to the president of the United States who is supposed to exemplify at least some decent qualities.
O`DONNELL: And, Tim, quickly before we go, I know a number of you authors have written about Trump closely examined his family relationships and there`s some dispute about how long Donald Trump Jr. went without speaking to his father. I know the author of "The Art of the Deal" suggests it`s a very significant period of time. And Trump was very content, his notion of dealing with his kids was just, if they want to come to the office and watch me work, that`s OK, but he would brag about not taking them for walks.
O`BRIEN: He wasn`t around. He was not a hands on father with any of his kids, and not really with Baron. It was up to his wives that have to I think pick up the remnants of the day and make sure the kids got to school, got fed, were attended to. That wasn`t his thing. He really didn`t engage with any of his kids until they got to college.
O`DONNELL: We`re going to break it there on this. Kurt Andersen, Tim O`Brien, Jennifer Rubin, thank you all for joining us tonight. I really appreciate it.
Coming up, Hope Hicks gets her shot tomorrow before the House Intelligence Committee. That will be behind closed doors. Congressman Eric Swalwell will be there and he will join us tonight.
And Ivanka Trump says she believes victims of domestic violence. So, does that mean that she believes her mother?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O`DONNELL: NBC News has confirmed that White House communications director Hope Hicks is scheduled to testify before the House Intelligence Committee tomorrow behind closed doors. Hope Hicks` previously scheduled appearance before the committee was postponed last month. A Republican member of the committee tells NBC News that he cannot be sure whether the committee would run into executive privilege issues as they did with Steve Bannon. That`s a great question, the member said, when asked if the scope of the questioning had been agreed to. Drama is likely.
The Democrats on the House Intelligence Committee have asked for subpoenas to Deutsche Bank, the institution that has been a major lender to the Trump organization and Jared Kushner. Republican Representative Mike Conway, a senior member of the committee, told CNN.com, I don`t see the link at this stage. Deutsche bank is a German bank. I don`t see the nexus.
How about this for a link? Deutsche proudly claiming on its Website, Deutsche Bank in Russia since 1881.
Joining us now, Democratic Congressman Eric Swalwell in California, a member of the House Intelligence Committee.
Thank you very much for joining us tonight, Congressman. I really appreciate it.
REP. ERIC SWALWELL (D), CALIFORNIA: Of course, Lawrence.
O`DONNELL: What are you anticipating tomorrow with Hope Hicks?
SWALWELL: Well, can`t confirm any witness` testimony but it`s no secret that she`s relevant for a number of reasons. She worked on the campaign, on the transition, of course, works there today. She`s one of the closest persons to candidate Trump we want to know what was his knowledge of what the Russians were doing in the election, what were his thoughts about WikiLeaks.
You know, Don Jr. met with Russians at Trump Tower. It seems to be very interesting that the president was tweeting just minutes after that meeting wrapped up and then, of course, the multiple responses given by the White House once it became public a year later.
So I just hope she comes clean and is straight with the committee because - - and that the committee is consistent in how it treated Steve Bannon, because everyone else seems to waiver or pass when it comes to the privileges that are asserted.
O`DONNELL: What about Deutsche Bank and one of the members of your committee saying it`s a German Bank and, of course, they`ve been in business in Russia, as well as Germany, since 1881.
SWALWELL: And more recently they`ve been in trouble in the United States in the state of New York where they were fined for money laundering using Russian money. So, we know the Russians use Deutsche Bank. We know that Deutsche Bank has financed Donald Trump.
We know that Donald Trump has had past business failures and has had a tough time getting funding in the United States. We know from his sons that their funding primarily comes from Russia. I don`t know why we wouldn`t want to at least see if there was any activity there.
Unfortunately, Lawrence, we`re running a take them at their word investigation. Witnesses come in, they say one thing, and we show know willingness through our subpoena power to corroborate what they say or contradict what they say. That`s no way to run an investigation, and that`s no way to tell the American people just exactly how deep into our democracy Russia was last election.
O`DONNELL: I imagine you`d have a different feeling if this investigation wasn`t backed up on by the special prosecutor.
SWALWELL: Well, he is the insurance policy right now. However, he is under constant attack and we shouldn`t be fool that the Nunes memo was really limited to our investigation. It actually it think was really intended to take a shot at Bob Mueller and the credibility of their team.
We should expect more of that because the chairman has said that there`s going to be future phases. And so, Congress should really put in concrete Bob Mueller`s position and allow him only to be fired if a panel of judges independently decided that he was outside his boundaries.
O`DONNELL: Congressman Eric Swalwell, I`m sorry, we ran out of time for your time.
SWALWELL: Anytime.
O`DONNELL: Thank you very much for joining us tonight. I really appreciate it.
SWALWELL: My pleasure.
O`DONNELL: Coming up, Ivanka Trump says she believes her father. So does she believe her mother?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: NBC News Peter Alexander interviewed Ivanka Trump this weekend at the Olympics in South Korea.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETER ALEXANDER, JOURNALIST, NBC NEWS: Your father has been accused of sexual misconduct by roughly 19 women. Do you believe your father`s accusers?
IVANKA TRUMP, MODEL: I think it`s a pretty inappropriate question to ask a daughter if she believes the accusers of her father when he`s affirmatively stated that there`s no truth to it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Of course, in courtrooms all over the country today daughters testified against their fathers in cases of domestic abuse and other disputes in which their fathers affirmatively stated there is no truth to the accusations t accusations. Peter stayed with that line of questioning and got a response.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEXANDER: You think all the women are making it up.
TRUMP: I know my father and I think I have that right as a daughter to believe my father.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Do you believe your mother? Do you believe your mother`s accusation that your father raped her? That question will probably never be asked of Ivanka Trump, because she will probably from now on stick to the fantasy world of Fox News and other friendly interviewers who will never ask anything she considers an inappropriate question. Ivanka`s mother is usually left out of the list of women who have accused Donald Trump of sexual violence. But for Ivanka Trump it has to be the single-most important accusation of sexual violence that she has ever heard.
Peter Alexander asked her about her father`s support for Roy Moore and she said absolutely nothing about that. But in the same question, Peter Alexander asked her about Rob Porter, the Whitehouse aide who was accused of domestic violence by both of his former wives. Here`s how that went.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEXANDER: What do you say to those who say your father routinely chooses to empathize with the accused over the accusers, Rob Porter, Roy Moore and other circumstances? How do you explain that?
TRUMP: Well I don`t think that`s true. I think that when there are cases of domestic violence, as we saw recently, that cannot be condoned. Nobody would condone that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: And what about the accusations of domestic violence within your own family, when your father was still married to your mother? Ivanka Trump just identified, "cases of violence that we saw recently that cannot be condoned." So she`s saying she does not condone the domestic violence that rob porter is accused of by his former wives.
She seems to be saying that is unacceptable unconditionally. She seems to be saying, I believe the women in those cases. I believe the former wives of Rob Porter. And so, again, does she believe her other mother who accused her father of even worse domestic violence than what Rob Porter is accused of?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I actually think this is a really exciting and important moment in time. And I think many people are being exposed for doing some really awful things. And I`m proud of the women who are standing up in the face of -- of accusers with credible -- with credible evidence and credible stories. And we`ve seen a lot of those, a lot of them recently.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: And a lot of people think your mother`s story about what your father did to her is credible. Are you one of them? When Ivanka Trump was telling Peter Alexander that she believes her father, she said, "I know my father and I believe that." The kids know. The kids have to choose sides in domestic violence.
The kids almost always are on the side of the victim, their mother. Some of the kids stop talking to their fathers. Sometimes long after the violence is over the kids reconcile with their fathers. But they always know.
They always know the truth. And I for one am sure that Ivanka Trump has absolutely no doubt about who she believes, her father or her mother. The Washington Posts Ruth Marcus will give us her reaction to the Ivanka Trump interview next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O`DONNELL: Joining our discussion now is Ruth Marcus, Deputy Editorial Page, Editor and Columnist at the Washington Post. And Ruth, this is an extensive interview that Peter Alexander did with Ivanka Trump and there`s much to retook react to in it and I leave it open to you to pick anything you want.
RUTH MARCUS, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Well a few things. First of all, I think we once again see Ivanka Trump -- she just has to live in this kind of fantasy land where her -- where things that happened didn`t happen, where her father is a staunch defender of any woman who might have been the subject or victim of domestic abuse. So therefore, in the Whitehouse the minute they found out about it they reacted really strongly and immediately and, of course, he was appalled. At one point in the interview Peter says well, it took him 10 days to respond, maybe it was 9, maybe 10, depending on when you start counting.
And Ivanka Trump`s answer to that was well, that`s not really my understanding of it or I don`t think that`s what happened. And you can say I don`t think that`s what happened all you want. But that is what happened. It took him ten days to choke out -- shouldn`t have to be said. And in the interim he talked about Rob Porter, about what a good job he had done in the Whitehouse and what a brilliant career he would have ahead of him. So that`s point number one.
Point number two would be, I think even leaving aside whatever happened between Ivanka Trump`s mother and her father, the way she responded to that question was just so telling and really a little bit galling to me because she is -- she`s asked this question and she says, that`s a very inappropriate -- pretty inappropriate question to ask a daughter. And it may be an inappropriate question to ask a daughter. Daughters you know have loyalty to their fathers. Daughters love their fathers even if they`re flawed.
And that`s why daughters shouldn`t be working in their father`s Whitehouse`s. And if they`re going to be working in their father`s Whitehouse`s and refusing or chafing at answering questions like that, maybe they shouldn`t be working on things like women`s issues and protecting women and families. So I had a little bit of a give me a break response to the interview.
O`DONNELL: Yes and the reason we know about her mother`s accusation against her father is because her mother had had made that accusation under oath in a deposition. And if the Trump divorce had gone into a full-blown litigation, it could have been that the kids were asked to testify about what they witnessed between their father and mother. And so the information notion of it being inappropriate even in the memory of their own family, even when their mother is on the record in a deposition having said that. Of course subsequently as the divorce got solved through money, as divorces like this always are the first Mrs. Trump then retracted to some degrees what she had said in the deposition. MARCUS: She pulled it -- as I recall she pulled it back and said I wouldn`t say it exactly rape. It was more like not the kind of loving encounter I was used to. And but you know even if that hadn`t -- whatever happened there, and it`s a very nice point to sort of kind of pierce Ivanka Trump`s unwillingness to deal with this. But even if we didn`t have that episode, she just is in an untenable position trying to have it both ways.
She wants to be the daughter, and so not to have to answer any difficult questions. But she wants to be the Whitehouse staffer and have all the power. Power that there`s no way she would have if she weren`t the daughter. And that`s the sort of galling conundrum of it all.
O`DONNELL: And Ruth I`m told by the control room that it could be that Donald Trump Jr. only stopped speaking to his father for a year or two and not longer period --
MARCUS: Only a few years, yes.
O`DONNELL: Right. I mean this is the kind of question left out there by this kind of family. And if Donald Trump behaved differently publicly we would never be discussing this. This kind of thing could be left in their past.
MARCUS: Well and you know, I think, even leave aside what happens inside families and you can just judge from the outside, there are, as Peter pointed out, an extraordinary number of women making a serious number of rather credible and, in many cases if not most, corroborated claims over the years against Donald Trump, many of which have the same MO. He just pay -- had his lawyer paid $130,000, or somebody did, to cover up another encounter. So what do you think about that, Ivanka?
O`DONNELL: We`re going to have to leave it there for tonight. Ruth Marcus, thank you very much for joining us, really appreciate it.
And coming up DACA is now guaranteed to continue beyond the March 5th deadline set by President Trump. And even though the whole world knows that Mexico is not going to pay for the wall. Donald Trump continues to get in arguments privately with the President of Mexico about it. Jorge Ramos who was kicked out of a Trump Press Conference will join us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O`DONNELL: Mexico is not going to pay for the wall. Everyone knows that. Donald Trump is demanding $25 billion of taxpayer money, your money, from Congress because Mexico is not going to pay for the wall. But President Trump still managed to derail for the second time a possible meeting with the President of Mexico over the issue of paying for the wall.
We know from a transcript of a phone call early in his presidency that President Trump admitted that he knew of course Mexico would not pay for the wall. But he begged the Mexican President to stop saying that Mexico would not pay for the wall. As a condition for coming to Washington for a meeting with Trump, the President of Mexico made it clear recently in a phone call that he needs the President of the United States to stop trying to convince his followers that Mexico will still somehow pay for the wall.
The Washington Post reports one Mexican official said Trump lost his temper. But U.S. officials described him instead as being frustrated and exasperated saying Trump believed it was unreasonable for Pena Nieto expect him to back off of his crowd-pleasing campaign promise at forcing Mexico to pay for the wall.
And even though President Trump ordered an end to DACA a week from now, on March 5th. DACA will continue uninterrupted past that deadline as a Federal Appeals Court considers a legal challege to the President`s order. The First Federal Judge to rule in this case has ruled against the President`s order to end DACA. The Trump administration tried to get the United States Supreme Court to take up the case, expedite it and move it along quickly. But the Supreme Court refused.
And so DACA will continued uninterrupted for at least several months pending the appeal and possibly become permanent if the Supreme Court upholds the current court ruling. Here`s the President`s attempt to explain that today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, UNITED STATES PRESIDENT: DACA is going to be put back into the ninth circuit. You know we tried to get it moved quickly because we`d like to help DACA. I think everybody in this room wants to help with DACA. But the Supreme Court ruled it has to go through the normal channels so it`s going back in. And there won`t be any surprise.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Our next guess is an Emmy-Winning reporter had had the honor of being thrown out of a Trump Conference. Jorge Ramos, the author of Stranger, the challenge of a Latino Immigrant in the Trump Era will join us.
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O`DONNELL: Here`s a moment from the presidential campaign we will never forget.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JORGE RAMOS, MSNBC CONTRIBUTR: You can you not deport 11 million people. You cannot build a 900 mile wall and you cannot deny citizenship to children. Don`t touch me, sir. Don`t touch me. You cannot touch me. I have the right to answer question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, in order. Your turn.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Joining us now, Jorge Ramos, an emmy award winning journalist, and author of Stranger, the challenge of a Latino Immigrant in the Trump Era. And Jorge you did give us a moment in that campaign that we can never forget. I want to get your reaction to where we stand tonight on DACA with the courts basically striking down the President`s order as of now and the appeal is going to take several months at this stage.
RAMOS: Yes. We have to remember that the President who killed DACA is Donald Trump. That`s the most important thing. He`s the most anti- immigrant President since the 1950`s, since Operation Wet Back.
And not only calling Mexican immigrants criminals and rapists. But also questioning Josh (INAUDIBLE) simply because of their heritage and calling Haiti and African nations asshole nations. So he is responsible for that. And If we`re going to depend on that person, on the President of the United States, the most anti-immigrant president we`ve had in decade to save the DACA kids, I think we got to start thinking on plan B.
O`DONNELL: And he`s not the only one in the Whitehouse who is not being helpful here. Let`s listen to what John Kelly said about DACA applicants and the people who did not apply for DACA.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN F. KELLY, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: there are 690,000 official DACA registrants. And the President sent over what amounts to two and a half times that number to 1.8 million. The difference between 690 and 1.8 million were the people that some were say were too afraid too sign up, others would say were too lazy to get off their asses but they didn`t sign up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Your reaction to that?
RAMOS: Well what we have is an administration that really wants to change the demographic trend in which we`re going to become a majority/minority country and that`s where we`re going. And they feel very uncomfortable with that. They`re clearly very uncomfortable with that.
And they want to change -- they have a nostalgic view of the United States. They want to go to 1965 when 80 percent of the population was non-Hispanic, white. And what you are seeing is everything they are trying to do is to cut legal immigration, to end TPS, hurting hundreds of thousands of Central Americans, cutting DACA, hitting back and arresting more immigrants and Barrack Obama, he`s not here. So everything they`re doing just try to hurt that.
O`DONNELL: What has it been like for you covering this administration? What is the particular challenge of a Latino immigrant in the Trump Era to go to the title of your book?
RAMOS: Well finally to resist that in 2044, everybody is going to be a minority. And the final idea what America would look like is more like the dreamers. It`s an inclusive tolerant, multi cultural, multi diverse American. Not the one Donald Trump is promoting right now. That`s the challenge.
O`DONNELL: And what would you say to DACA kids? What should be their strategy going forward?
RAMOS: I think they`re strategy is great. As a matter of fact, DACA kids and the student survivors in Florida, they have exactly the same strategy, in your face. They won`t take no for an answer. And if we`re going to depend on them for the future, I think we`re in good hands.
O`DONNELL: And on the Mexican border I mean here is the President of Mexico once again trying to schedule a meeting here in Washington and it`s the longest we`ve ever gone for the new President not meeting with our southern neighbor. And President Trump blows it again over the wall.
RAMOS: It`s a matter of dignity for Mexicans. How can anyone in Mexico accept to pay for the wall for Donald Trump. And it`s a useless wall by the way. 45 percent of all undocumented immigrants they come by plane or with a visa. So it`s a useless wall. So he want a little bit of his wall for the DACA kids, we`ll do that but not even that he`s accepting at this point.
O`DONNELL: Jorge Ramos thank you very for joining us tonight.
RAMOS: Thank you so much.
O`DONNELL: Really appreciate it. Jorge Ramos gets tonight`s Last Word. coming up on the 11th hour former New York City Commissioner Bill Bratton, the most experienced Police Commissioner in America. He was the Commissioner in Boston, Commissioner in Los Angeles and the Commissioner in New York. He`s going to talk about Donald Trump`s plan to arm teachers. He has called it the height of lunacy. "The 11th hour with Brian Williams starts now.
END