The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell, Transcript 8/28/17 Russia Probe and NK Missile launch.

Tim O`Brien, Eric Swalwell, John Danforth

Date: August 28, 2017

Guest: Tim O`Brien, Eric Swalwell, John Danforth

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC: And commissioned it, who stands by – so says Orrin
Hatch`s office. That`s interesting. It means if one more Republican votes
to release that transcript, that would mean those ten hours of testimony
about the dossier by the guy who commissioned it, who stands by the dossier
absolutely, those ten hours of testimony may soon see the light of day.

Which would really be something. Watch this space. This does it for us
tonight, we will see you again tomorrow, now it`s time for THE LAST WORD
with Lawrence O`Donnell, good evening Lawrence –

LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, HOST, THE LAST WORD: Good evening, Rachel. And let me
add one sort of senatorial courtesy point to what you just said, which I
think makes it a pretty certain proposition that you`re going to see in
those transcripts.

Orrin Hatch is the senior most Republican serving in the Senate. He`s been
there for 40 years, he`s actually the longest serving Republican senator in

And he believes in Senate traditions, protocols, courtesies. He would
never have said that without checking with Chairman Chuck Grassley.

MADDOW: So you think that Hatch saying that and saying it the way he did
means that both Hatch and Grassley would vote to release the transcript? –

O`DONNELL: Well, what it absolutely means is Grassley has no problem with
Orrin Hatch saying that.

It doesn`t necessarily mean that Grassley is going to join him, but it
probably means there are others who will come along.

And also Orrin Hatch used to be the chairman of the Judiciary Committee.

MADDOW: Right.

O`DONNELL: Chuck Grassley has complete respect for Orrin Hatch in this
matter and Hatch would never do something that Chairman Grassley doesn`t
want him to do in that committee.

MADDOW: Can you imagine if we`re going to get the transcript of all ten
hours of that testimony all on the dossier from the guy who knows enough
about it to say, I stand by it –


MADDOW: And he just spent ten hours defending it.

O`DONNELL: You know what I`m worried about? I`m worried about what time
we`re going to get the transcript –


O`DONNELL: OK? Like say –


O`DONNELL: Rachel, say it`s like – I don`t know, 8:30 p.m. –


O`DONNELL: For example, just as a way of ruining your life.

MADDOW: I`ll just tell you, if it comes out after dinner time on the East
Coast, would I commit to doing at a minimum is just reading it out loud on
TV –

O`DONNELL: I think you can do it –

MADDOW: For as long as we can –

O`DONNELL: Just random pages.


O`DONNELL: Just anything.


O`DONNELL: And it will be breaking news by definition.

MADDOW: If it comes out by lunch time, we`ll act it out.

O`DONNELL: Right –

MADDOW: If it comes out by dinner time, you`re just going to get it –
you`re just going to get it raw.

O`DONNELL: But thanks, Rachel.

MADDOW: Thanks, Lawrence.

O`DONNELL: Well, even after issuing his very first presidential pardon,
President Trump clearly does not know that the acceptance of a pardon is an
admission of guilt.

So by issuing a pardon on Friday night to former Sheriff Joe Arpaio,
President Trump got Joe Arpaio to confess his guilt by accepting that

Hundred and two years ago, the United States Supreme Court said that a
pardon, quote, “carries an imputation of guilt and acceptance of a
confession of it.

So one thing that you don`t hear from presidents who issue pardons is that
the person pardoned did nothing wrong because the person pardoned has just
admitted guilt.

But that`s what President Trump seems to want us to believe about Joe
Arpaio. In a brief press conference with the president of Finland today,
President Trump offered a childish defense of his pardon of Joe Arpaio.

The president didn`t actually defend his pardon as much as he attacked
what he said were the bad pardons issued by previous presidents, including
some cases that were not pardons at all but simply clemencies and
reductions of sentences.

But defending your actions by saying other people have done the same thing
is not actually a defense of your actions as you will discover the next
time you are pulled over for driving through a stop sign if you try that

And so the president criticized President Obama`s granting of clemency to
Chelsea Manning after Chelsea Manning had served seven years in prison and
had more years remaining on that sentence.

The president specifically avoided any mention of President George W. Bush
commuting the sentence of Scooter Libby; the aide to Vice President Cheney
who was convicted of perjury and obstruction of justice.

President Bush deliberately refused to actually pardon Scooter Libby
because he did not want to eliminate the finding of guilt against Libby,
but he did want to eliminate the prison sentence.

Now, why didn`t President Trump mention President Bush`s pardon of Scooter
Libby on his list of bad presidential pardons issued by previous

What could be more unpardonable than a president pardoning a member of his
own administration?

Well, first of all, as I said, President Bush did not actually pardon
Scooter Libby. He simply eliminated Libby`s prison sentence, which was
only a 30-month prison sentence.

But President Bush did not eliminate the $250,000 in fines that was part
of Libby`s sentence, and President Bush did not eliminate Libby`s
obligation to report to a probation officer for two years.

And perhaps most importantly, President Bush allowed the legal process to
come to a conclusion in the Libby case, including sentencing before the
president took action.

President Trump did something none of the presidents he mentioned today
had done. He stepped into a case between conviction and sentencing and
did not allow the case to come to a conclusion.

So there might be a lot of reasons why President Trump did not mention
President Bush commuting Scooter Libby`s sentence today.

Trump didn`t want to attack a Republican, that`s one reason. He obviously
enjoyed attacking President Obama and President Clinton.

But President Trump does attack Republicans whenever he feels like it, and
he certainly has attacked Republicans named Bush viciously.

It seems the really big reason Donald Trump left George W. Bush and
Scooter Libby out of his list of bad pardons and clemencies issued by
previous presidents is that President Trump is saving that one.

President Trump is saving the case of Scooter Libby for when he needs it,
for when he pardons someone in his administration.

If and when President Trump pardons members of his administration,
including members of his family, that`s when you`re going to hear him talk
about Scooter Libby.

That`s when you`re going to hear him talk about the president pardoning a
member of his administration.

And Donald Trump will call it a pardon, what George W. Bush did, even
though George W. Bush did not actually pardon Scooter Libby.

Listen to what President Trump said today about President Obama commuting,
not pardoning Chelsea Manning.


sentence of Chelsea Manning, who leaked countless sensitive and classified
documents to WikiLeaks, perhaps and others, but horrible thing that he did,
commuted the sentence and perhaps pardoned.


O`DONNELL: Commuted the sentence, and then he looks up from his written
script and says “perhaps pardoned”.

No, not perhaps pardoned. There was no pardon. President Obama did not
pardon Chelsea Manning.

But Donald Trump will say whatever he feels like saying if and when he
pardons Mike Flynn or Paul Manafort or Jared Kushner or Donald Trump Jr. or
Ivanka Trump.

And one of the things he`s absolutely going to say is that President Bush
pardoned Scooter Libby. He`s going to say that even though it`s not true.

The president provided no facts whatsoever to back up his pardon of Joe
Arpaio. No facts, just adjectives. He simply said this.


TRUMP: Sheriff Joe is a patriot. Sheriff Joe loves our country. Sheriff
Joe protected our borders and Sheriff Joe was very unfairly treated by the
Obama administration.


O`DONNELL: OK, not just adjectives, but you know what I mean, no facts.
President Joe – President Joe?

Joe Arpaio called Sheriff Joe by President Trump – he`s not a sheriff,
he`s a former sheriff who was defeated in his last re-election campaign.

Joe Arpaio was not convicted by the Obama administration. Joe Arpaio was
convicted by the Trump administration.

Federal prosecutors working under Trump`s Attorney General Jeff Sessions
prosecuted the case against Arpaio, which is why President Trump tried to
get Jeff Sessions to drop the case against Joe Arpaio.

“The Washington Post” reports “the president asked Attorney General Jeff
Sessions whether it would be possible for the government to drop the
criminal case against Arpaio, but was advised that would be

And listen to this sourcing. “According to three people with knowledge of
the conversation.”

So let me guess. Three people with knowledge of a conversation between the
president and the Attorney General.

Well, it`s really – it`s a good thing that the president has never done
anything or said anything to alienate Attorney General Jeff Sessions, so
we know the leak couldn`t possibly have come from Jeff Sessions` side of
that conversation.

It`s worth noting that the Trump White House remains the leakiest White
House in history, even with former General John Kelly as the new chief of
staff who was supposed to, among other things stop the leaking.

Todd Gillman; the Washington Bureau Chief of the “Dallas Morning News” got
the first question at the press conference today, and he went straight to
recovery funding for Texas after the devastation of Hurricane Harvey.


threatened a government shutdown potentially next month over border wall

Are these going to hamper long-term – the funding that will be needed
long-term for recovery?

TRUMP: No, Todd. I think that you`re going to see very rapid action from
Congress, certainly from the president and you`re going to get your

GILLMAN: Does this situation make you reconsider the possibility of a
government shutdown next month –

TRUMP: I think it has nothing to do with it really. I think this is
separate. This is going to go really very quickly. Again, I`ve spoken to
many of the people we`re talking about, and everybody feels the same way I


O`DONNELL: Funding for hurricane recovery has everything to do with a
government shutdown. It has everything to do with everything.

Paul Ryan and other Republicans already said they weren`t going to have a
government shutdown over Donald Trump`s border wall, and now a government
shutdown would mean instantly cutting off aid to those people in Texas who
the president claims to sympathize with.

The possibility of a government shutdown now is less than zero. The
president`s staff will be explaining that to him if they haven`t already,
and the funding for hurricane recovery probably will not go very quickly or
very smoothly.

Most of the Texas congressional delegation, including both Texas Republican
senators voted against aid for the victims of Hurricane Sandy.

They did that for two reasons. First, they are Republicans, and second,
the victims were not in Texas. The victims of Hurricane Sandy were
primarily in New Jersey and New York, and now the congressional delegation
that voted against aid for the victims of Hurricane Sandy will be asking
Congress for what, $70 billion or $100 billion more for the victims of
Hurricane Harvey?

Paul Ryan knows that he needs to round up votes to raise the debt ceiling
and to pass a budget. And so Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell might just
decide to put all of those things together in one bill, which means it
won`t be quick.

And a new budget for all of the government, all of the government
departments, a raise in the debt ceiling, and special funding for Hurricane
Harvey relief, all of that in one piece of legislation.

If Ryan and McConnell put all those things together in one bill, then
Senators like Ted Cruz would be forced to vote for that bill to get the
Hurricane Harvey relief money that they want.

Otherwise, it might be impossible to get Senators like Ted Cruz to vote for
an increase in the debt ceiling or to vote for the budget bill that the
Republicans are going to have to pass and that they`re going to have to
develop in a compromise with Democrats.

Now that the president can no longer threaten a government shutdown to pay
for his wall, he is in effect writing a new chant for his supporters to use
at his next rally.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is your plan still to have Mexico pay for the wall?

TRUMP: Yes, it will, one way or the other, Mexico is going to pay for the
wall, that`s right. It may be through reimbursement, but one way or the
other, Mexico will pay for the wall.


O`DONNELL: And so at the next Trump rally, I suppose we`ll be hearing
something like – and who`s going to pay for the wall?

Whereupon the audience will shout back “Mexico will reimburse us for the
wall.” Joining us now, Maria Teresa Kumar; president and CEO of Voto
Latino, an Msnbc contributor.

Also with us, Steve Bell; former Republican staff director of the Senate
Budget Committee and a senior adviser at the Bipartisan Policy Center.

And also joining us, Ron Klain; former chief of staff to Vice Presidents
Biden and Gore and a former senior aide to President Obama.

Maria Teresa, I want to go to you first on the pardon of Joe Arpaio and the
way the president talks about Joe Arpaio.

Who by accepting the pardon has admitted guilt to what he was charged with.
But he has a history of much more than what he was charged with, and that`s
a history that the president ignores.

found that he basically had violated the constitution under the 8th
Amendment for cruel and unusual punishment.

This is a sheriff who prided himself on running his tent cities like
concentration camps. The number of hangings that occurred in his camp with
people under detention was unprecedented.

He would shackle women while giving to child birth. I mean, it goes on and
on. And the fact that the Maricopa County voters voted him out, they voted
him out because they were tired of not only the fact that he was basically
terrorizing a whole group of people based on the color of their skin
because it was willy-nilly.

It was just this – it was the guys of immigration reform. But he was also
costing the taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars trying to do this
erroneous efforts while not pursuing true crimes.

He had close to over 400 backlogs of sex crime investigations that were
failed to go unnoticed, and the many of them were children.

So the list goes on. And this idea that he was doing his job, no, he
wasn`t. And what President Trump just did, he basically threw the book at
the constitution because he prevented the judicial branch of government of
checks and balances to fully do their job.

O`DONNELL: And Ron Klain, this intervening between a verdict basically and
sentencing is something we haven`t seen before.

Lawrence, you mentioned that before.

But this is unprecedented intervention by a president in the judicial
process for no reason other than the fact that he likes Joe Arpaio`s

Joe Arpaio was a birther and Trump tweeted gratitude for him for raising
the false claim that President Obama wasn`t born in this country.

He is a racist. He is a white supremacist, and that`s basically the case
President Trump was making at this press conference today.

You know, he agrees with him, he thinks he`s a good guy and therefore, he
gave him a pardon.

Well, he isn`t a good guy, and you know, this was a series of
constitutional violations the Justice Department began to document under
President George W. Bush that were further investigated under President

And as you said were finally prosecuted under the Trump presidency. So
there is no basis for this pardon, it was an extraordinary act, and there`s
just no justification for what the president did.

And his statement today that he did it during the middle of a hurricane
because he thought it would get better ratings on cable is either tortured
or a lie or really both.

O`DONNELL: And it goes without saying, I mean, literally goes without
saying that Joe Arpaio would never have been pardoned if he were not a
Trump supporter.

And I mean that`s just not mentioned very much in all of this because we
take it so for granted. That of course to get a pardon from Donald Trump,
you would have to be a Trump supporter.

And past presidents have always been very careful and afraid of being
associated with pardoning people who were their supporters.

I mean, they`ve done it, but it`s not something that most presidents want
to be caught doing. Steve Bell, to the president`s notion that it`s going
to be very easy, very quick to get all of this hurricane funding lined up.

I think it`s the same way he said that we were going to have a tax bill by

Even earlier than that, we were going to have a great tax bill. But the
fact of the matter is this.

They don`t have very much time depending on how you want to count 12 to 17
days of congressional action before the 1st of October.

They have a number of things they have to get done. The primary one is to
increase the debt ceiling before early October, probably have to do that in
mid-September sometime.

They don`t have a budget as you pointed out for fiscal year `18, which
starts on October 1st. And I think what they`re going to have to do is
look the president in the eyeball and say, now, wait a minute.

You said you would not accept a spending bill that didn`t fund the wall.
Does that mean if we send you a spending bill, you will veto it despite the
fact that the federal government`s money and help is absolutely essential
to the recovery to those people who were victims of Hurricane Harvey.

And that`s going to be an interesting question for the president about 30
days from now to have to consider.

O`DONNELL: And Ron, in the past, hurricane funding has taken sometimes
several months for Congress to act on.

It didn`t used to be that way, but starting around 2005, there were some
Republicans led by Mike Pence in the House of Representatives –

KLAIN: Yes –

O`DONNELL: Who started to say, look, if you`re going to do disaster
funding like this, you must make other cuts in the budget to make up for
whatever money you`re spending in disaster funding.

Prior to that, it used to be understood to be an emergency and something
that the government was just going to have to spring into action on without
cutting other spending.

KLAIN: Yes, Lawrence, this is a great country, and people in this country
want to help one another. And that crosses party lines and it crosses
regional lines.

But a few years ago, the Republicans decided to politicize that. And Mike
Pence said we should cut Medicare, cut old senior citizens` healthcare and
poor people`s healthcare through Medicaid to pay for disaster relief, a
ridiculous position.

And now he`s our vice president. We`re going to see what he recommends.
I think the key thing here is, I think Donald Trump will pass the bar of
tweeting about the storm and flying on Air Force One, but this is going to
take weeks and months and years, long after his Twitter feed has moved on.

And the test of presidential leadership in this kind of situation is, does
he have the focus, the consistent focus to oversee and drive this recovery
to its end?

And I think that`s where President Trump sadly will fail the test of
leadership on Hurricane Harvey.

O`DONNELL: And Maria Teresa, to Ron`s point, that seems to me to be
exactly why the very first question to the president today was about the
long-term recovery plan for Hurricane Harvey, not what are you going to do
this week, next week, but the long-term plan.

And any talk of government shutdown, anything like that and feuding with
members of Congress as the questioner pointed out jeopardizes that.

KUMAR: That`s right. I mean, this president so far in the last seven
months, he`s been shooting from the hip. And this requires someone who is
disciplined, strategic, who is filling the jobs in those federal agencies
that he has yet to completely do.

And he can`t propose the budget that he originally had, which was basically
cutting – slashing the National Guard, slashing FEMA, slashing disaster.

And this is actually the testament of why we actually need those programs
and we need the right type of civil servant in those positions because we
cannot calculate when the next national disaster will take place.

And he needs to be disciplined, so hopefully Kelly being in there will able
– will enable him to actually have some sort of – some sort of
discipline, but it`s a hard shot.

O`DONNELL: Steve, having worked in the Senate on the Republican side of
the budget in process, you know how Mitch McConnell thinks about these

Do you expect leader McConnell to wrap all of the difficult issues up into
one package so that it`s one vote essentially on the debt ceiling, on the
budget, and on hurricane relief?

BELL: You know, I think that`s a real possibility. When you don`t have
enough time, the thing you have to do – and this sounds like Yogi Berra,
is create more time. And they have – they do –

O`DONNELL: That`s not fair –

BELL: Have the ability to do that. If they want to have a short-term,
continuing resolution for spending for the government to say through the
end of December.

And if they want to have a short-term debt extension to the end of
December, then they can probably work out – and I think this is what Mr.
McConnell would like to do – would be able to work out the funding for the
government, the first part of the funding for what is going to be a very
expensive Hurricane Harvey recovery and very long by the way as you pointed
out, and to get things like the National Defense Authorization Act passed
and flooded insurance reauthorized and things like that.

So they need time, and my suspicion is that leader McConnell, who cares
about keeping the majority in the Senate above most anything else, I think
he`ll probably say, look, give us 90 days up here, Mr. President, don`t
veto a bill that doesn`t have funding for it – for the wall, and please
let`s do this in a logical way.

I think there`s a real possibility that he`ll do that. Now, the question
is this. Will the president who thought he got tricked earlier this year
when he went ahead with the FY-17 budget with no money for the wall.

Will he say, no, once shame on you, twice, shame on me, and veto it, which
of course would be a catastrophic political mistake.

O`DONNELL: Well, we`re going to find out. Steve Bell takes his position
now beside Yogi Berra and the great quotes of our time.

If you`re running out of time, create more time. Maria Teresa Kumar, Ron
Klain, Steve Bell, thank you all for joining us tonight –

KLAIN: Thank you –

O`DONNELL: Really appreciate it.

KUMAR: Thank you –

BELL: Thank you very much.

O`DONNELL: Coming up, newly discovered e-mails connecting Donald Trump and
the Trump campaign to Vladimir Putin, and those e-mails tell the story of
how Ivanka Trump once got to sit in Vladimir Putin`s chair in the Kremlin.

And later, a former Republican senator is warning his party about what –
who he calls, quote, “the hateful man in the White House”.

O`DONNELL: Once again, very suspiciously, President Trump could not bring
himself to say a single negative word about Russia today.

When he was asked a simple yes or no question, “is Russia a security
threat? The president obviously was afraid of saying yes or no.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Trump, would you consider Russia as a security
threat? Thank you.

TRUMP: Well, I consider many countries as a security threat,
unfortunately when you look at what`s going on in the world today.


O`DONNELL: Many countries. “The Washington Post” reports, quote, “while
Donald Trump was running for president in late 2015 and early 2016, his
company was pursuing a plan to develop a massive Trump Tower in Moscow
according to several people familiar with the proposal and new records
reviewed by Trump organization lawyers.”

The “New York Times” reported “more details of those e-mails today, and
Trump associate Felix Sater who was born in Russia wrote a series of e-
mails to Mr. Trump`s lawyer Michael Cohen, in which he boasted about his
ties to Mr. Putin and predicted that building a Trump Tower in Moscow would
highlight Mr. Trump`s savvy negotiating skills and be a political boon to
his candidacy.

Our boy can become president of the USA and we can engineer it, Mr. Sater
wrote in an e-mail. `I will get all of Putin`s team to buy in on this.

I will manage this process.`” In another e-mail to Michael Cohen, Felix
Sater wrote, “I will get Putin on this program, and we will get Donald

Felix Sater was hired by Donald Trump to broker real estate deals. The
“Times” also reports “Felix Sater helped arrange Ivanka Trump`s 2006 trip
to Moscow and that he said, quote, “I arranged for Ivanka to sit in Putin`s
private chair at his desk and office in the Kremlin.”

Joining us now, Steven Harper, he`s an attorney and author. He`s an
adjunct professor at Northwestern University and contributor to

He created the Trump-Russia timeline. Also with us tonight, Tim O`Brien;
executive editor of “Bloomberg View” and author of “Trump Nation: The Art
of Being the Donald”.

And Steve, on the timeline, here we have what will be on your timeline, the
entry of some new e-mails. This new e-mail discovery that`s now been
published first by “The Washington Post” and then details – more details
by the “New York Times”.

And this is a very direct communication about getting Vladimir Putin
himself involved in helping Donald Trump win this election.

STEVEN HARPER, AUTHOR & ATTORNEY: It`s certainly interesting, and the
interesting thing about it to me is that it really fits into a broader
narrative, I think.

And this is one of those situations where, you know, you can analyze the
event and the e-mails in a micro sense.

And then when you take a step back and look at it in a macro way and
realize that what`s really going on here is that while a man is running for
the presidency of the United States, his company is simultaneously trying
to enter into a business deal which is reported to be one of – would be
one of the largest real estate projects of its kind in the world.

Pretty stunning stuff I would think.

O`DONNELL: And Tim, I want to take a look at the sourcing for these e-
mails in the “New York Times” article.

It says, “the Trump organization on Monday turned over e-mails to the House
Intelligence Committee which is investigating Russian meddling in the
presidential election and whether anyone in Mr. Trump`s campaign was

Some of the e-mails were obtained by the “Times”. Now, Tim, there`s a
consistent pattern here that when the Trump lawyers find e-mails as they do
involving Jared Kushner and others, that they turn over to any of the
investigators, whether it`d be the House, Senate or the special prosecutor.

Those e-mails are almost instantly revealed to the press, and it seems to
me that what we have here are defense lawyers saying to their clients,
look, these are going to become public.

You don`t want them to become public the day you`re sitting there on the
witness stand or – you know, in a Senate hearing.

You want them to become public now so that they are old news by the time
you testify.

himself in this thing. So you`ve got different members of the Trump
organization with their own counsel figuring out how to save themselves
because what Mueller is doing and what the Congressional Investigators are
doing is they`re picking off the weak members of the pack at the back of
the pack, and they`re going to move up the food chain towards Donald Trump.
That`s the ultimate end game here.

And what`s interesting about the e-mails today, Lawrence, is that Felix
Sater has had a relationship with Donald Trump going back to about 2002. He
wasn`t just a broker for the Trump organization. He was a principal at Bay

They developed the Trump Soho Hotel together. Felix Sater is a career
criminal with organized crime ties and the President maintained a
relationship with him for over a decade and routinely said in public, I
don`t know him well. I`m distancing myself from him.

And now with these e-mails, you see one, the President is not distant from
Felix Sater and in fact Felix Sater is the point person on a deal the Trump
organization is trying to do in Moscow. And it raises this quid pro quo
issue that`s going to be really I think central to the Mueller
investigation, going beyond just collusion in the election. It were there
favors sought from the Kremlin in return for certain quid pro quos?

O`DONNELL: And Felix Sater kept an office in Trump Tower during some of
this period where Donald Trump says, oh, I didn`t see him very much. And
Steve Harper, on this release of what is basically evidence in the case,
could it be that some of the defense lawyers involved with some of the
Trump associates want this information to become public as a way of
communicating it to other possible defendants and other people involved in
the case so that they know what evidence the other side already has on

Steve Harper, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Perhaps. You know, it`s always hard to
figure out the timing on these kinds of things. The one thing we know for
sure is that they were under a dead line to produce this stuff, and these
came out, as I understand it, at the very end of the trail, some 20,000 or
so documents had already been produced. I would add two other data points
to the ones that Tim suggested, which I think are exactly correct.

Remember there was that June 2016 meeting. Well, in July of 2016, according
to an interview that Seter gave to Politico, he visited Trump Tower on what
he said was confidential business, refusing to disclose what it was. And
then in January, at the end of January 2017, Seter again – he`s sort of
like the Forrest Gump of this administration. you know, Seter again then
shows up, this time at the Lowe`s Regency Hotel in Manhattan with Michael
Cohn and (INAUDIBLE), a Pro-Putin Ukrainian with a so-called peace plan,
the essence of which would cede Crimea to Russia and lift the sanctions.

It`s a stunning – that`s what I mean if you sort of draw back and start
connecting all of the Seter dots, Tim is exactly right. This isn`t just
about a couple of e-mails which frankly, to me, some read rather squirrely.
It`s a larger story.

O`DONNELL: Just a note to audience. If you are struggling at any point
connecting these dots, there is Steven Harper`s timeline. You can find it
at It`s the timeline of all of this with all of these
characters that we are all relying on every day as we research these
stories. Steven Harper and Tim O`Brien, thank you for joining us tonight.

Coming up, House Intelligence Committee Member Eric Swalwell will join us
with his take on these latest developments in the Russia investigation. And
also North Korea`s latest missile launch tonight.


O`DONNELL: Here`s what candidate Donald Trump said about Vladimir Putin in
December 2015 at a time when Donald Trump was trying to convince the
Russian Government to allow him to build a Trump Tower in Moscow.


said, Donald Trump is brilliant. He`s doing an amazing job, and he`s
leading the pack.

OK. That`s nice. And she and my opponents, oh, isn`t that terrible that
Putin said – wouldn`t it be nice if we could get along with the world?
Wouldn`t it be, seriously. No, no, wouldn`t it be nice?

I mean they want me to refute his statement. How dare you say I`m
brilliant? How dare. That`s – who`s going to do that?


O`DONNELL: Joining us now, Eric Swalwell, Democratic Congressman from
California, member of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.
And Congressman Swalwell, those things that Donald Trump was saying during
the campaign that sounded so strange then seemed to make a lot more sense
tonight as we stare at the details of the Trump Tower deal for Moscow.

ERIC SWALWELL, U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: They sure do and good evening,
Lawrence. I first just want to say thank you for mentioning the Harvey
Victims. My heart goes out to and beats with them.

And in Congress I pledge to do everything we can without confusion or
offsets to provide relief but these e-mails now with respect to Russia.
They are just more bright lights in an ever growing constellation of
Russian contacts that this President had. And it makes a whole lot more
sense as to why he was praising Vladimir Putin.

It looks like it was all about the money. He was seeking to invest in
Russia and in their own way, we know Russia was investing in Donald Trump.

O`DONNELL: And still to this day can`t bring himself to say a negative
word about Russia or Vladimir Putin in any context no matter how you shape
the question.

SWALWELL: That`s right. it`s time for the President to come clean because
we need to know what exactly is it that Russia has on Donald Trump, and
what exactly does Donald Trump intend to do in Russia. He`s said all along,
Lawrence, no Russia, no collusion.

And now we have found out there were a lot of Russian contacts. There were
a lot of efforts to work with the Russians and receive information on
Secretary Clinton. And now we know it`s not just personal and political
relationships. It was also financial dealings.

And by the way, Lawrence, how many Americans alive today do you think have
sat in the chair of Vladimir Putin? That shows you how close Donald Trump
was to a President who ordered an attack on our country.

O`DONNELL: And Ivanka Trump got to do that thanks to the intersession of a
career criminal, Felix Sater, an associate of Donald Trump`s. Can we –
can you stay with us, Congressman?


O`DONNELL: We need to squeeze in a quick break here and we`re going to
come right back with Congressman Eric Swalwell. We`ll be right back.


O`DONNELL: Tonight North Korea fired a mid-range ballistic missile over
Japan. Officials said the missile passed through Japan`s Airspace and
landed in the Pacific Ocean. Congressman Eric Swalwell is still with us.
Congressman, last week at that rally, Donald Trump said this.

He said, Kim Jong-Un, I believe he`s starting to respect us. I respect
that fact very much. So that looks like a Presidential misreading of North

SWALWELL: North Korea does not respect us, Lawrence. They`re a menace, and
they are testing an unfocused President. The best thing that this president
can do is to stitch together our allies, continue to work with China, not
try and solve this by Tweet, and continue to go to the U.N. to put pressure
every time that North Korea acts out this way. But right now he is
unfocused and leaves us and our allies in a much less – in a much unsafer
position today than we were even last week.

O`DONNELL: We`ll have more on this missile story as it develops.
Congressman Eric Swalwell, thank you very much for joining us tonight,
really appreciate it.

SWALWELL: my pleasure.

O`DONNELL: Coming up, a Republican Senator is warning his party. A
message directly to his party about Donald Trump, saying Donald Trump is
not a real Republican. And he says – he calls Donald Trump a hateful man.
That`s coming up.


O`DONNELL: Senator John Danforth graduated from Yale Law School and Yale
Divinity School in the same year. In that same year he was admitted to the
bar to practice law and ordained as a priest in the Episcopal Church. He
eventually pursued a career in politics and was elected to the United
States Senate as a Republican from Missouri and later served as President
George W. Bush`s Ambassador to the United Nations.

In an op-ed for the Washington Post on Friday, Senator Danforth wrote, to
my fellow Republicans, we cannot allow Donald Trump to redefine the
Republican Party. That is what he is doing as long as we give the
impression by our silence that his words are our words and his actions are
our actions.

We cannot allow that impression to go unchallenged. Our party has been
corrupted by this hateful man, and it is now in peril. Joining us now John
Danforth, former Republican Senator from Missouri. He`s the founder of the
John C. Danforth Center.

Thank you very much for joining us tonight. Your warning to Republicans
about Silence, are you talking about the elected Republicans in Washington
who have been largely silent in the face of President Trump.

JOHN DANFORTH, FMR. REPUBLICAN SENATOR: No, I think it`s harder for the
people who are in elected politics than it is for those of us out. I do
understand it`s difficult for people who are running for office or think
they will be running for office. But I`m really talking about all

I think it`s important for us to make it clear that we are not like Donald
Trump. He is – he is very different. He is a very divisive person in the
history of the Republican Party has been the party of the union, the party
of trying to keep America glued together.

So it`s a message for all Republicans and beyond that really for all of us
that trying to keep the country glued together is a principal duty of all
of us.

O`DONNELL: Well most people in the country according to polls seem to
agree with you on this the President`s job approval is at 35 percent with a
60 percent disapproval backup. But when we look at the Republican numbers
inside that poll it`s different story. 78 percent of Republicans approve of
President Trump, 7 percent of Democrats approve of the President, 30
percent of independents.

So Senator you have a difficult case in persuading the 78percent of
Republicans who apparently in the polls are with Donald Trump.

DANFORTH: Well, I think there can be any number of reasons for being with
him. I mean it could be that any don`t like the policies of the Democrats
or they want some – I think a lot of people want somebody they perceive as
being a strong person, and that`s part of the appeal of Trump.

But I do believe if you were to ask most Republicans and most Americans, do
you think divisiveness is a good thing? Do you think it`s a good thing to
set one group against another?

Most people would say, no that`s not a good thing and we have to keep the
country together.

O`DONNELL: In your op-ed you said he is the most divisive person in our
history. There hasn`t been a more divisive person since George Wallace. And
of course George Wallace ran basically as a segregationist.

That`s as strong a condemnation of any American politician since George

DANFORTH: It`s meant to be strong. It`s important for my party. i`m a
Republican and happy to be a Republican. But I think it`s got – we have to
make it clear we are not like Donald Trump.

But I want to add this, Lawrence. I think there is a lot of blame to be
placed on Trump for the divisiveness in this country. But it`s a more
general problem than just one person than just Donald Trump.

And the responsibility is shared by a lot of people. It`s shared by
Democrats. It`s shared by people who practice identity politics. It`s
shared by all of us when we`re very touchy and complaint about micro
aggressions and so on.

There is a lot of components that go into the splintering of America. And
all of us have a responsibility. but in this op-ed I was writing as a
Republican to my party and saying that we have to get back to our roots,
namely the history, the tradition of Abraham Lincoln, the tradition of
keeping this as one nation indivisible.

O`DONNELL: What did you hear from Congressional Republicans about your
op-ed piece?

DANFORTH: I haven`t solicited their views and haven`t heard their views.
I`ve had a lot of feedback in many ways from a lot of people. Some of whom
are republicans some of whom are not. But as far as people in elective
office I haven`t heard anything.

O`DONNELL: Wouldn`t be that disappointing, Senator, if what your hope is
to reclaim the Republican party and saying we have to make it clear that
Donald Trump is not us, wouldn`t you like to have heard from some of the
former colleagues in the Senate about that op-ed piece and said at least
privately say to you you`re right about this we`ve got to figure out how to
get this back?

DANFORTH: Well as far as people now active in politics, I think it`s
difficult for them. I mean it`s – most people in politics want to win the
next election. And to say that a substantial part of your base consists of
people who are strongly for Trump it`s very difficult I think for people
who are now active in elective politics.

But for people who have some distance from it, people like me who don`t
intend to run again, is our voice as persuasive as those in elective
politics today? No, it isn`t. But I think that`s the most likely source
for Republicans to speak out. And it`s very important for us to speak out.

O`DONNELL: Former Senator Danforth thank you very much for joining us
tonight, Senator.

DANFORTH: Thank you.

O`DONNELL: Tonight`s last word is next.


O`DONNELL: The Mayor of Houston announced tonight that 3052 people have
been rescued by police since Hurricane Harvey hit that city. Yesterday
President Obama Tweeted, thank you to all the first responders and people
helping each other out. That`s what we do as Americans.

Here is one way you can help now. Help those affected by Hurricane Harvey.
Visit Call 1800 Red Cross or text Harvey to 20999 to make a
$10 donation. You can find more ways to help at That`s
tonight`s last word. The 11th hour starts now.


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