The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell, 6/21/17 Congress grills Intel Officials on Russian Hacking

Guests:
Malcolm Nance, David Frum, Benjamin Netanyahu, Mieke Eoyang, Ned Price, Joy Reid, Jeronimo Yanez, Diamond Reynolds
Transcript:

Show: THE LAST WORD WITH LAWRENCE O`DONNELL
Date: June 21, 2017
Guest: Malcolm Nance, David Frum, Benjamin Netanyahu, Mieke Eoyang, Ned
Price, Joy Reid, Jeronimo Yanez, Diamond Reynolds

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC: I should also note some other – targeted Republican
members of Congress at their last practice in advance of the annual
congressional baseball game.

I should also note some other good news today after that shooting. The
House Majority Whip, number three Republican in the House, Steve Scalise,
he of course was very seriously injured in that shooting.

But today the hospital that`s been treating him upgraded his condition from
serious to fair, which is an improvement.

MedStar Washington Hospital where Congressman Scalise is recuperating, they
announce today that he continues to make good progress, which of course is
heartening to hear.

And that does it for us tonight, we will see you again tomorrow, now it`s
time for THE LAST WORD with Lawrence O`Donnell, good evening Lawrence.

LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, HOST, THE LAST WORD: Rachel, wonderful to see the
video of officer Griner –

MADDOW: Yes –

O`DONNELL: Throwing out that first pitch, and in a wheelchair –

MADDOW: I know –

O`DONNELL: She has a better arm than I do at my best.

MADDOW: You and I – you and I both. You and I combined actually.

O`DONNELL: Yes, thank you, Rachel.

MADDOW: Thanks, Lawrence.

O`DONNELL: Well, the president flew all the way to Iowa tonight to tell
America the Democrats are better at writing healthcare laws than
Republicans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LESTER HOLT, JOURNALIST: The secrecy surrounding the Senate Republicans`
healthcare plan.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It`s always terrific to be
able to leave that Washington swamp.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: With just nine days before the Senate is expected to
vote, no public sign of what`s in the bill.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t get to read it, I don`t vote for it. If I
don`t get to study it, I don`t vote for it.

SEN. AL FRANKEN (D), MINNESOTA: Because there`s a lot of people I can`t
see voting for this thing.

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D), MASSACHUSETTS: We can whimper about it, we can
whine about it or we can fight back. We are fighting back.

TRUMP: There are obstructionist.

JEH JOHNSON, FORMER SECRETARY OF THE UNITED STATES HOMELAND SECURITY:
Russian government orchestrated cyber attacks on our nation for the purpose
of influencing our election.

TRUMP: I mean, they have phony witch hunts going against me –

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When there`s ambiguity on the part of the United States
president about whether it even happened, the Russians are lapping that up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The president of the United States doesn`t have that
awareness or that will to protect us going forward, we`re going to be in a
heap of trouble.

JOHNSON: I think we have to assume that the Russians will be back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: The Republicans are not even halfway through the process of
writing a healthcare bill that can become a law.

But they apparently are so fearful of what they are writing that they are
keeping it the most secret healthcare legislation ever conceived on Capitol
Hill.

Tomorrow, Senate Majority leader Mitch McConnell plans to finally reveal
the super secret healthcare plan that he has been writing to a small group
of Republican senators, just a small group of Republican men, some of whom
have had some input into it already.

Tonight, “The Washington Post” reports that the Senate bill will mirror the
House bill with some changes. A discussion draft circulating Wednesday
afternoon among aides and of course, lobbyists would roll back the ACA`s
taxes, phase down its Medicaid expansion, rejigger its subsidies, give
states wider latitude in opting out of its regulations and eliminate
federal funding for Planned Parenthood.

A new “Politico” morning consul poll finds that the House version is
already unpopular with only 35 percent of voters approving of it, 49
percent disapprove.

And 65 percent of voters say they want Republicans to compromise with
Democrats and come to a bipartisan solution on healthcare reform.

Here`s what President Trump had to say about that healthcare plan tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I`ve been watching, they`re saying President Trump has not produced
healthcare – you know, I`ve been there for five months. I think and I
hope – can`t guarantee anything.

But I hope we`re going to surprise you with a really good plan. You know,
I`ve been talking about a plan with heart. I said, add some money to it, a
plan with heart. But Obamacare is dead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Can`t guarantee anything, that little phrase that he squeezed
in the middle of that speech was a phrase you never heard on the campaign
trail from candidate Trump.

Of course, Obamacare is not dead. It is the law of the land until that
changes and the Republicans, as I said, are not even at the halfway point
of getting a bill that can become a law.

The president admitted tonight, in effect, that Republicans are so bad, so
bad at writing healthcare legislation that even the tiniest bit of input
from Democrats, any Democrat, would make it much better, would make it
beautiful.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: And by the way, if we had even a little Democrat support, just a
little, like a couple of votes, you`d have everything.

And you could give us a lot of vote and we`d even be willing to change it
and move it around and try and make it even better.

It`s going to have good heart, but even better. But again, they just want
to stop. They just want to obstruct. A few votes – seriously, a few
votes from the Democrats, it could be so easy and so beautiful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Joining us now, Joy Reid; Msnbc national correspondent and the
host of “A.M. JOY” weekends on Msnbc.

Also with us, Tim O`Brien; executive editor of “Bloomberg View” and author
of “Trump Nation: The Art of Being the Donald”.

And David Frum; senior editor for The Atlantic. Joy, it could be so
beautiful –

JOY REID, MSNBC NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So beautiful –

O`DONNELL: If they all just moved their hands like him.

(LAUGHTER)

And I don`t know, has said something beautiful –

REID: Yes –

O`DONNELL: It could be a beautiful bill.

REID: And I mean, Democrats would have to pull off this magic trick
without ever speaking to a Republican because Republicans will not only not
let their own members see the bill.

They certainly aren`t letting Democrats know what they`re doing. The 13
guys that are writing it by themselves are then going to show it to a
Republican-only caucus.

Democrats are not allowed in the room, there will be no hearings, there
will be no discussion, no amendments from Democrats.

What is it that Donald Trump wants them to do? Maybe hold up big signs
outside of the Republican caucus meetings with their ideas on them?

It`s ridiculous. And then the second point obviously is Democrats are
never going to participate in something called repeal Obamacare.

There`s no reason for them to ever do that, and they`re not going to do it.

O`DONNELL: But Tim, the – we`re getting reports from inside the White
House already that they`re all terribly disappointed that he didn`t stick
to the script, that he didn`t go with what was on the teleprompter.

TIM O`BRIEN, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, BLOOMBERG VIEW: Right –

O`DONNELL: And instead, you know, went with whatever went through his
mind. You`ve studied him – you got – better than any of the rest of us,
longer than the rest of us.

You`ve had him under oath in a deposition and your – where he failed in
his lawsuit against you. When he`s up there saying, as we just heard him
say, Democrats could make this better, we don`t know how to make it better,
only they do. He doesn`t hear a word he`s saying, right?

O`BRIEN: I mean, no, he`s riffing. He`s like – he`s like – he`s like a
Hip-Hop artist.

O`DONNELL: And he has no idea what the words actually mean that he just
said, right?

O`BRIEN: Or I think the underlying policy that he`s talking about.

O`DONNELL: Yes.

O`BRIEN: He`s not a student of policy. He doesn`t understand healthcare.
He doesn`t understand the first bill that the Republicans tried to push
through the House.

And I`m sure he doesn`t understand the specifics of what he currently has.
He`s just trying to generate that thing that he does, which is crowd –
uproarious crowd pleasers.

O`DONNELL: Let`s listen to what – more of what the president said about
the Democrats and how they`ve been obstructionist on this healthcare.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: They`re obstructionist. We wouldn`t get one Democrat. If we came
to you and said, here`s your plan. You`re going to have the greatest plan
in history, and you`re going to pay nothing, they`d vote against it, folks.

(LAUGHTER)

Every single vote. So we have a very slim 52 to 48. That means we
basically can`t lose anybody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: David Frum, it won`t surprise you that the part about the
greatest plan in history where you don`t pay – where you`re going to pay
nothing was not in the teleprompter.

That was the plan that Donald Trump just wrote as he was speaking to his
audience.

DAVID FRUM, SENIOR EDITOR, THE ATLANTIC: We could have that plan –

O`DONNELL: Yes –

FRUM: But we`re giving you something else. Daniel Dale of the Toronto
Star had an amazing report from that speech about exactly what Tim and you
were talking about, the Donald Trump riffing.

At one point, he went on this riff about one of the ideas he`s had is that
immigrants in this country – legal immigrants who have been settled should
not get any kind of public assistance for their first five years.

There should not be a charge on the Treasury. And he thinks – he said
this was a very important concept and he was going to go to work on it.

And I think actually that would be a pretty broadly popular idea. In fact,
it`s so popular that it`s been the law of the land since the middle 1990s.

And no one has ever, I think, before seeing a president go on a platform
and promise to do something that has been the law of the land for 22 years.

O`DONNELL: And Joy, it takes a special kind of voter to applaud for that
and – hey, that`s a great idea.

REID: Yes, but the thing is Donald Trump, you know, he does understand
something fundamental about the Republican Party that Republicans didn`t
understand.

Which is that the base of the Republican Party wants big government. They
just want big government to only be limited to them. They want, you know,
immigrants to be cut off from programs.

They want minorities who they think don`t deserve them to be cut off. But
they themselves actually are not just for big government, they`re for huge
government.

And so when he says too them something terrific where you won`t have to
pay, what they hear Donald Trump saying is, I`m going to make sure that
whatever I create takes care of just you.

And we`re still going to cut the bad people out, the people you don`t like
are going to get nothing. And to them, that sounds like Christmas every
day.

O`DONNELL: And Tim, he – I think you`ll have a strong insight into this.
He said he doesn`t want any poor people in his cabinet. Now, I think you
could extend that to his life, couldn`t you?

O`BRIEN: Yes, he`s never had many poor people even at his front door. I
think he actually said he wants – he thinks that rich people make better
decisions.

He`s a rich person. He hasn`t made great decisions, but I don`t think he`s
going to turn that prism on himself.

O`DONNELL: And David, here`s a president with this stunningly low approval
rating now, down 35, 36, somewhere like that, who goes out there and
apparently believes the room.

He believes the few thousand people that you can put in a room, all self-
selected to applaud for him.

O`BRIEN: Right –

FRUM: Well, I think one of the consequences of the Georgia six election,
which has left Democrats very downcast and understandably why they would
be.

But it has also pushed the Republicans past their last safe exit. You
know, had the Republicans lost in Georgia, I think there might be today a
little bit more of a mood of caution.

That would be painful today but would serve them well in the longer medium
term. What is instead happening is Donald Trump feels completely
emboldened to do whatever he wants to do, and the Paul Ryan Republicans and
the Mitch McConnell Republicans feel emboldened to do what they want to do.

And so they`re going to gun this thing. And they might well have been
advised to do as you say, to look at those poll numbers and say, you know,
sooner or later, the public is going to find out what`s in this bill.

And they will probably find it out before November of 2018 even if it`s
already the law by then.

O`DONNELL: But Joy, could any Republican House member who won their seat
by less than, say, 15 points –

REID: Right –

O`DONNELL: Less than 20, certainly less than 15, could any of them feel
comfortable tonight after what they saw in Georgia last night?

REID: No, I mean, well, here`s the reality. There are two trains that are
barreling down the tracks at the same time toward each other.

One of them is that every single Republican who is in Washington elected
today has to be able to go home to their state or their district and say, I
voted to destroy Obamacare.

But they also have to be able to go home and say, I did not take away you
and your grandma and your mom`s healthcare.

But what Paul Ryan fundamentally wants to do is take grandma`s healthcare.
He is just as determined to take away grandma`s healthcare and take away
healthcare from the poor to give a giant tax cut to the rich as Donald
Trump is to create something terrific that will pay everybody and leaves
nobody poor.

These are two things that are in fundamental conflict with each other. And
Republicans cannot say no to Trumpcare. They have to vote for it because
they feel like that is their prime directive.

But once they do, 2018, I know they feel good right now about Georgia six,
but all that says is that Republicans vote for Republicans.

The problem is they`ve got to sell this bill the way Democrats had to after
2010, and Democrats expanded healthcare and still lost.

O`DONNELL: Yes, Tim, the history of what happens to the party who took the
last action on healthcare. Whether they succeed or fail, I mean, you look
at what happened under the Clinton bill where the Democrats failed and
couldn`t even get it to a vote in the House of Representatives, couldn`t
get it to a vote in the Senate.

They were still penalized and lost both the House and the Senate in the
next election.

O`BRIEN: And I think that – I think of that reality is going to visit
itself upon the Republicans in a way that they`re really – I don`t think
they`re braced for.

I don`t think they`ve thought it through, they`re now bringing us to a
double feature. You know, we saw this first in the House, it looks like
we`re going to get a repeat in the Senate.

It`s a double feature in a completely dark theater, no one can see the
screen. And I don`t think the result is going to be favorable for them.

O`DONNELL: And David, certainly, the president doesn`t realize that if the
Senate does pass a bill, that they are at that point just about halfway
there because then the House and the Senate each have to pass a bill again
that is –

FRUM: Right –

O`DONNELL: In identical form, and many a bill dies after it has passed
both the House and the Senate when they`re at that halfway point.

FRUM: Well, the House has the option of simply passing the Senate bill
whole, which is what happened to the Affordable Care Act in 2010.

That could happen that Paul Ryan may not want to go through all of this
again because the clock is getting very unforgiving.

We have a recess of Congress on the 31st of July, I suppose that could be
changed, but that would be difficult. The government is empty, so there`re
a lot of hearings that have to be done in the Senate.

And if actions begin on the big tax cut that is the real desire of
Republican voters. Again, the clock gets very hard. If you now send this
thing to some kind of conference for a lot of talk, you could – you could
miss the moment.

And there are not many of those moments left.

O`DONNELL: Joy, the president made only a passing reference to the witch-
hunt in Washington without getting too specific about it.

So in front of that crowd tonight, even –

REID: Yes –

O`DONNELL: When he`s unleashed, he couldn`t find anything to say about the
investigation specifically –

REID: Which he can`t say anything because the chief warlock Robert Mueller
has his number. I mean, this is – Donald Trump created the situation he`s
in now because even if there could be no evidence found of collusion with
Russia, firing Jim Comey cooked this – baked this in.

This is going to be Donald Trump`s reality for the foreseeable future.
Robert Mueller is a formidable opponent, but you know what? So is Jim
Comey. Firing him was a huge mistake, and he`s going to have to live with
it.

O`DONNELL: Tim, will he live with it? Will he – will he not fire – try
to fire the special prosecutor? Will he live with what he now has?

O`BRIEN: We`ve been down this road before, you and I talking about this.
I don`t think he`d hesitate for a second to fire Mueller if he feels
threatened.

And I think one of the animating forces of his fear and concern around this
hasn`t been the collusion issue, whether or not it occurred.

I think he thinks he could probably end run the obstruction of justice. I
think what he`s really concerned about is that there`s now – people are
now looking at the money trail, and this comes right into his wallet.

And this is a man who doesn`t have a – you know, a closet full of
skeletons, he has a gigantic warehouse full of them.

And I think that`s why he`s been so aggressive in trying to take this on or
even derail it.

O`DONNELL: David Frum, there`s so much talk about, you know, why wouldn`t
the president come out and say something forceful about the Russians
interfering in the election.

It`s hard to believe the more you listen to it and observe the president
that he doesn`t hope that the Russians do exactly the same thing in his
next election. It worked for him the last time.

FRUM: Well, I wonder and I`m just guessing whether it`s not more
psychological than strategic in the way that you describe.

For him to acknowledge that would be to acknowledge some kind of blemish.
You know, there`s no question whether you think that Donald Trump is the
correct president.

There`s no question – whether you think he`s even – or there`s some taint
on his legitimacy, there`s no question he`s the lawful president.

He has the powers of the presidency, and that`s pretty amazing and would be
enough for most people. But for him to accept something went wrong and
there`s some question mark, that`s not something he can psychologically
cope with.

He has to deny it. So maybe he has the kind of pragmatic motive that you
describe, but maybe it`s just – Tim knows him well.

Maybe it`s just that need to say, if it`s mine, it must be perfect. It
must be huge, it must be the best and biggest ever.

O`DONNELL: Tim, quickly before you go. If there`s any possibility that he
won with the help of Russian interference, why wouldn`t he want that
interference the next time around?

O`BRIEN: I don`t think he would acknowledge that`s why he won.

O`DONNELL: Right.

O`BRIEN: So I think that`s a moot point.

O`DONNELL: OK, Tim O`Brien, we`re going to have to leave it there, thanks
for joining us Tim, really appreciate it. Coming up –

O`BRIEN: Thank you –

O`DONNELL: A former homeland security official told Congress today that
Russia tried to interfere with voting in 21 states. And the president`s
son-in-law did not tell the truth on his application for a security
clearance, so why does he still have a security clearance?

And what did Jared Kushner think he was doing in Israel today?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. TREY GOWDY (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: So what more could we have done,
should we have done before the election?

JOHNSON: It would be easy for me to say that I should have brought a
sleeping bag and camped out in front of the DNC in late Summer with the
benefit of hindsight.

This was on my front burner all throughout the pre-election period.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: Today, the House and Senate Intelligence Committees heard from
current and former intelligence officials about Russia`s effort to hack
into our presidential election.

Here`s what former Obama administration Homeland Security Secretary Jeh
Johnson testified to, to the House Intelligence Committee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNSON: In 2016, the Russian government at the direction of Vladimir
Putin himself, orchestrated cyber attacks on our nation for the purpose of
influencing our election.

That is a fact plain and simple. As fall progressed, we saw a progression
of scanning and probing activities around voter registration databases,
which concerned me. It was unprecedented, the scale and the scope of what
we saw.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: The current deputy Undersecretary of cyber security at the
Department of Homeland Security testified before the Senate Committee.
Jeanette Manfra offered this detail.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEANETTE MANFRA, DEPUTY UNDERSECRETARY OF CYBERSECURITY, DEPARTMENT OF
HOMELAND SECURITY: We as of right now, we have evidence of 21 states or
election-related systems in 21 states that were targeted.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: The FBI`s assistant director for counterintelligence Bill
Priestap said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL PRIESTAP, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR FOR COUNTERINTELLIGENCE, FBI: The
primary goal in my mind was to sow discord and try to delegitimize our free
and fair election process.

I also think another of their goals, which the entire United States
intelligence community stands behind was to denigrate Secretary Clinton and
to try to help then current President Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Joining us now, Malcolm Nance; Msnbc counterterrorism and
intelligence analyst, the author of “The Plot to Hack America”, and David
Frum is still with us.

Malcolm, what did we learn today? And I mean we, not you of course, because
you already know everything. But –

(LAUGHTER)

What did us news consumers learn in that hearing today?

MALCOLM NANCE, MEDIA COMMENTATOR ON INTERNATIONAL TERRORISM & INTELLIGENCE:
That I`m like Nostradamus. I mean, this is nine months ago I wrote that
book.

But more importantly that we are getting the validation of the information
that the media has been putting out for some time.

This is not a hoax. Jeh Johnson had been with the director of the CIA and
President Obama and director of National Intelligence when they made a
statement to the nation that this nation was attacked.

And now we`re seeing the current director of cyber security, the current
director at the FBI all validating the analysis that`s been put out ever
since the CIA released their report September 23rd. Nothing new here,
we`re just hearing it anew.

O`DONNELL: David Frum, 21 states they have –

FRUM: Right –

O`DONNELL: Evidence of an attempt to interfere with voting, could be with
voting registration. It could be with other elements of the voting
process.

FRUM: Well, so far, it sounds like those attempts were reasonably
ineffectual and in some ways defeated by just the general slovenliness of
the American voting system.

If the United States had a more modern voting system, the Russian attacks
might have been more successful. But one of the things – one of the
reasons we need a true investigation of this is there are a lot of
questions about the Obama administration that need to be answered.

You hear varying claims and maybe Malcolm knows which are right and which
are wrong, that the Obama administration acted decisively and effectively
or that it was a asleep at the switch, that it looked away.

I think a lot of – for the record, we need to know did the administration
respond effectively enough? Did it send signals or did it stand down for
its own internal political reasons?

And as I think you all know, there`s intense bad blood between the Hillary
Clinton loyalists and the Barack Obama loyalists as to whether or not the
administration acted decisively or not.

O`DONNELL: Malcolm, what`s your reading of that point at this stage?

NANCE: Well, I think that it`s pretty clear to me what the Obama
administration was doing. They were treating the office of the presidency
with respect and dignity, and they did not want to appear political at all.

They were not going to intervene in this election because that`s the
Lincolnesque thing to do. Even though John Brennan; the director of the
CIA was hair on fire, running around, telling the gang of eight that this
nation`s electoral process was under attack.

That being said, those old rules are out the window. We`ve got an
administration that doesn`t believe any of this.

So, you know, these – there do have to be questions that need to be
answered from the Obama administration side, but I think more importantly,
what are we going to do because we have other elections coming up, and they
could just as easily hammer us in the next election cycle as well as they
did the last.

O`DONNELL: Let`s listen to the sequence between Senator Reed and the
acting deputy Undersecretary for Cyber security.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JACK REED (D), RHODE ISLAND: Are you aware of any direction by the
president to conduct these types of operations or your investigations?

MANFRA: Sir, to clarify the question, direction from the president to –

REED: That the president of the United States has directed that we think
that Homeland Security and other federal agencies conduct the activities
that you`re conducting, essentially investigation into the Russian hacking
in the election.

MANFRA: I can`t comment on the president`s directions specifically, but
that our secretary is committed to understanding what happened, ensuring
that we are better protected in the future.

So –

REED: That he –

MANFRA: Our activities are fully –

REED: He has not – he has not communicated that this is at the direction
of the president of the United States?

MANFRA: No sir.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: So David Frum, no message from the president to the troops on
this.

FRUM: It doesn`t – it doesn`t look like that. Again, as we were saying
in the last segment, I don`t think it`s possible psychologically for Donald
Trump to process this.

Even if he had a completely innocent frame of mind – and we don`t know
that. But if he did, it just – it wouldn`t be in his nature to say that
there could be possibly any blemish attached to anything that belongs to
him.

O`DONNELL: Malcolm, it`s occurred to me the more I watch this, that if the
president benefited from the interference, why wouldn`t this president –
and I mean, uniquely this president want that same interference the next
time he runs?

NANCE: Well, it`s quite possible that he could. But, you know, I don`t
know if he`s going to get there based on the way that he is running
interference to stop any investigation whatsoever of what happened.

This was an attack. I mean, you know, the only thing that was missing was
the cruise missiles. These were electronic cruise missiles. They
psychologically re-engineered or enhanced the way that everybody thought
about Hillary Clinton to the point that that was the only thing that was
discussed.

This president doesn`t see anything wrong with that, and that being the
case, he thinks that by ordering it, he can just put a stop to it, and he`s
now coming up against the gears of democracy. It`s not going to work.

O`DONNELL: Yes –

FRUM: Nor should we assume that the Russian policy is so consistent as
that. They may well turn against Donald Trump should he run for re-
election in 2020.

And meanwhile, we`re on this course of intensifying confrontation in a
number of theaters. In Syria, where there have been – where American and
Russian forces are getting ever closer to some kind of terrible accident.

In Northeast Asia, where there`s a widening gap between the American and
the Russian positions. Donald Trump because of his confrontational non-
strategic nature, whatever he owes the Russians, whatever he owes the
Russians in the past, it`s not clear that he`s going to pay them any more
than he`s paid any other creditor if they are his creditor.

O`DONNELL: But Malcolm, there`s no indication that any of the decisions
being made in Syria are coming from the president.

He seems to have simply delegated that entire region of the world to
whoever the military commanders are in the region.

NANCE: I agree with you on that point. I think this is what`s happening
with the regional battle commanders are making decisions that are
tactically advantageous to them, especially these strikes that were
occurring up in Raqqa where we shot down the SU22.

The opposition – the attacks that we took near Trebil(ph) along the
Jordanian-Iraqi border, those commanders aren`t playing any games because
they`ve been delegated this authority.

On the other hand as David was saying there, Donald Trump is not looking at
this game at all strategically.

The United States could be brushing up against Russia and creating tactical
friction, you know, in all over the place. But you know, and like he said,
if he is in debt to them in some way, whether rhetorically or actually
financially in debt to them, I think he`s terrified that Robert Mueller and
this Special Counsel team are going to find it.

They just brought in some of the top financial crime people in America and
that`s all he`s concerned about. Nothing else matters. You know, we could
be in ground combat, and I don`t think he`d care.

LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC ANCHOR: Malcolm Nance and David Frum, thank you
both for joining us tonight, appreciate it.

DAVID FRUM, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Thank you.

O`DONNELL: Coming up, security clearances are supposed to be suspended if
you`re under investigation – unless your name is Jared.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: Democrats on the House Oversight Committee are questioning why
the Whitehouse did not suspend Security Clearances of former National
Security Advisor Michael Flynn and Presidential Senior Adviser Jared
Kushner after questions arose about their contacts with Russian officials.
In a letter to Whitehouse Chief of Staff Reince Priebus, Congressman Elijah
Cummings writes, when there are credible allegations that employees may be
unfit to continue accessing classified information, security clearances are
supposed to be suspended while the allegations are investigated. Jared
Kushner today met with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and
Mahmoud Abbas in a 15-hour overseas trip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: I know of your efforts, the
president`s efforts, and I look forward to working with you to achieve
these common goals.

JARED KUSHNER, PRESIDENTIAL SENIOR ADVISER: Thank you. The President
sends his best regards and it`s an honor to be here with you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Senator Richard Blumenthal told Hardball tonight that he and
other Democratic members of the Judiciary Committee have also requested a
review of Jared Kushner`s Security Clearance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, UNITED STATES SENATOR: He had these clandestine
conversations with the head of the major bank in Russia, who had ties to
Putin and to the intelligence community in Russia and, second, this effort
to establish a back channel using Russian diplomatic facilities. So those
potential errors in judgment not to mention divulging confidential
information require a security clearance review for him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Joining us now, Mieke Eoyang, lawyer, a former House Committee
Staff Member and the Vice President for the National Security Program at
the Third Way. Also with us, Ned Price, former Senior Director and
Spokesperson for the National Security Council and a former CIA Analyst.
He is an MSNBC National Security Analyst. Mieke, how big a deal is this,
these issues about Jared Kushner`s security clearance?

MIEKE EOYANG, LAWYER: This is a really big deal. The security clearance
process is set in place so that you know who is a risk for classified –
for leaking classified information or compromising classified information.
Not going through the process, not filling out the paperwork it shows that
they are being very cavalier with classified information which we see over
and over again with this administration.

O`DONNELL: But Ned Price the President doesn`t have to go through any of
this security clearance hurdle to get into the position he`s in. And we
know. This is a public fact he is the leakiest creature whose ever walked
around the Whitehouse with classified information.

NED PRICE, MSNBC NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: That`s right Lawrence. The
Security Clearance for the Commander in Chief has always been predicated on
the fact that the popular vote, which of course we know Donald Trump did
not win, is supposed to be the ultimate arbiter of whether someone is
appropriate for receiving top secret information. In this case, I`m not
sure that is the best standard but it is the only standard we have and the
one that`s still in play.

O`DONNELL: Let`s listen to what the acting FBI Director said today about
the resources that the special prosecutor has.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOS SERRANO, UNITED STATES CONGRESSMAN: Is the Special Counsel being
provided with full access to all FBI resources needed for investigation?

ANDREW MCCABE, ACTING FBI DIRECTOR: He is, sir. He is. I can assure
you of that. I`ve had many, many interactions with the Special Counsel and
his representatives.

In fact, we are meeting in the next 24 hours to discuss exactly that. We
have a great number of folks who have already been detailed to that team.
And I have assured Director Mueller that we will do everything necessary to
deliver the resources and to meet the needs that he has to do that work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Mieke Eoyang, as you`ve seen the public reports of Mueller
adding lawyers almost every day, one with Russian language expertise,
others with expertise in a variety of issues that might be involved here,
money laundering, Russian business, how does that team look to you at this
point?

EOYANG: it looks very substantial, and it looks like they`re going to have
a very wide-ranging investigation, not because, as the President claims,
it`s a witch hunt. But because the President has so many different ways in
which he and his team have been compromised by their contacts with the
Russians, whether its in-person communications, attempts to talk to
intelligence officials, financial ties, meeting with sanctioned banks. It`s
all over the place. So you need a large team to look into all those
allegations.

O`DONNELL: To go back to the security clearance issue, and this time
involving Michael Flynn, I want to reach back into a May 11th hearing and
as these investigations go on, we discover questions in hearings that
didn`t mean so much at the time suddenly loom much larger in today`s
context and this Senator Ron Wyden with CIA Director Mike Pompeo. Let`s
listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RON WYDEN, UNITED STATES SENATOR: Did you have any indication, secondhand,
any sense at all that the national security adviser might be vulnerable to
blackmail by the Russians? That is a yes or no question.

MIKE POMPEO, CIA DIRECTOR: It`s actually not a yes or no question, senator.
I can`t answer yes or no. I regret that I`m unable to do so.

O`DONNELL: And Ned Price, we now know the answer to that is yes.

PRICE: Well let`s also remember that Ron Wyden is the king of asking
leading questions. In 2013, it was Ron Wyden who asked DNI Director
Clapper whether there were any programs that captured all of the met data
in this country and that answer was later revised after Edward Snowden came
to light. I have a feeling Senator Wyden. I have a feeling Senator Wyden
was doing something similar here knowing that Mike Flynn was in the
position he was for 18 days and continued to receive the PDB even after
Sally Yates, the Acting Attorney General at the time, warned the
Whitehouse.

But let`s also remember that the Whitehouse, Don Mcgahn, the Whitehouse
counsel, was warned even before President Trump was sworn into office. They
knew that National Security Adviser Mike Flynn would need to register as a
foreign agent. They knew there were red flags.

And let`s also not forget that President Obama offered a word of advice to
then President-Elect Trump warningagainst Mike Flynn. It`s not like they
went into this blind. And it`s not like they didn`t know what they were
getting into. They just chose to ignore the warnings until they were
caught, until the Washington Post caught them in their own lie.

O`DONNELL: Ned Price and Mieke Eoyang, thank you both for joining us.

EOYANG: Thank you.

O`DONNELL: Coming up, a jury looked at the police shooting of Philando
Castile and saw no crime. We will show you that shooting and you can decide
for yourself what you think you see. This video is very difficult to watch.
Joy Reid will join the discussion after we show you that video

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: Mr. Phil helped feed 395 kids a day at a public elementary
school in St. Paul, Minnesota. But the police officer who approached him
on the last day of his life did not know that. Philando Castile picked up
his girlfriend`s 4-year-old daughter at daycare that day but the police
officer did not know that when he was approaching the car with the 4-year-
old girl in the back seat. Philando Castile then picked up his girlfriend,
Diamond Reynolds, after she finished work, but the police officer did not
know that as he approached. PHILANDO CASTILE was licensed to carry a
firearm and had that firearm with him in the car. But the police officer
did not know that.

All the police officer knew was that one of the taillights on Philando
Castile`s car wasn`t working. That`s it. That is the only thing that the
police officer actually knew with certainty before he fired seven bullets
into Philando Castile`s car. One of those bullets went into the back seat
and almost hit the little girl. Another bullet hit the center console two
inches away from Philando Castile`s girlfriend. The rest of the bullets all
hit Philando Castile.

Five bullets. Two of them went through his heart. Philando Castile`s
girlfriend started running her video camera immediately after the shooting,
a video that has been widely seen over the last year on this network.
Friday, the officer was found not guilty of manslaughter in the second
degree, and yesterday the dash cam video of the shooting, which had been an
exhibit in court, was finally released.

I didn`t want to watch it. I`ve seen enough of these videos. They are
difficult to watch. If you have any kids anywhere near your TV right now,
you don`t want them to see this. Here is that police dash cam video.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JERONIMO YANEZ, POLICE OFFICER: Do you have your license and insurance?

PHILANDO CASTILE, POLICE SHOOTING VICTIM: Sir, I have to tell you I do
have a firearm on me.

YANEZ: Don`t reach for it then. Don`t pull it out.

DIAMOND REYNOLDS, PHILANDO CASTILE`S GIRLFRIEND: You just killed my
boyfriend.

YANEZ: Don`t pull it out. Don`t move!

REYNOLDS: Oh, man.

REYNOLDS: Oh, my god.

YANEZ: Don`t move!

REYNOLDS: Oh, my god.

YANEZ: Don`t move!

REYNOLDS: Oh, my god. I`m shaking.

YANEZ: Don`t move!

O`DONNELL: Don`t move, baby.

YANEZ: Don`t move! Code three! Shots fired.

REYNOLDS: Stay with me.

YANEZ: code three!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REYNOLDS: he got pulled over for a busted taillight in the back, and the
police. He`s licensed. He`s licensed to carry. He was trying to get out
his ID in his wallet out. He let the officer know that he was – that he
had a firearm and was reaching for his wallet, and the officer –

YANEZ: Ma`am, just keep your hands where they are! I told him not to
reach for it. I told him to get his hand off it!

REYNOLDS: He was reaching for his I.D., sir. His driver`s license. Oh, my
god.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: What did you just see? Was that panic? Was that murder? Was
that manslaughter? Was that a crime? I`ll ask Joy Reid next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN CHOI, RAMSEY COUNTY ATTORNEY: The toughest part for me with respect
to those facts is that he was so respectful in how he disclosed that he had
that firearm. He said, sir, I have to tell you that I do have a firearm on
me. And he went beyond what the law requires. He was compliant.

He wasn`t resisting. And at the end of the day, this was a traffic stop.
Unfortunately, the jury didn`t see it that way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Joy Reid, that`s the district attorney who prosecuted that
case, the Philando Castile killing. And there are five different degrees
of homicide in Minnesota. He chose the lowest degree which is manslaughter
in the second degree which is simply culpable negligence and he could not
get a conviction on that. When you saw that dashcam video, what did you
see?

JOY REID, MSNBC NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes I mean, obviously what you had
is a person who never should have been a police officer who went from zero
to 60 in about two seconds. He was obviously afraid of the person in the
car and you can draw your own conclusions as to why. He panicked when he
was told by Philando Castile, officer, I need to inform you that I have a
gun.

Now, if Philando Castile had mal-intent toward that officer, he wouldn`t
have calmly informed him, sir, that I have a gun. So there wasn`t even any
logic to his panic. And I think that was the most damning was not so much
Officer Yanez but the other officer who was completely calm and treated it
as a routine traffic stop.

O`DONNELL: Never touched his gun.

REID: Never touched his gun. But you saw you know there`s so much going on
in that tape that`s infuriating and that`s shocking and hard to watch. But
you look at the required calm of the girlfriend who also would have been
shot had she made one wrong move because obviously Officer Yanez was unfit
to be a police officer and is afraid of people. And you know, look I have
friends with the police officers. I have a good friend that`s a police
chief.

My godfather is a retired cop. Police officers are required to be
professional on a level that exceeds normal human beings because of the
power you`re given. You`re giving essentially a high school graduate; a 19-
year-old has the power of life and death over death over you and me. And so
they`re required to have a certain level of professionalism and calm.
Yanez just lacked it.

I give that prosecutor incredible credit for trying this officer. They
never do it. They never go to trial. He tried. But people believe whatever
police officers say and all they have to say is I fear for my life, I
thought he had a gun and they get off every time.

O`DONNELL: Yes, and – but within the culpable negligence statute, the
fact that you were fearful and it turns out you were wrong, that`s why it`s
brought under the negligence statute.

REID: That`s right.

O`DONNELL: Is – is the – well, OK we understand you thought you were –
but you were wrong.

REID: Yes.

O`DONNELL: And you shouldn`t have done that.

REID: Yes, and – and just from what we`re hearing about the jury, they
were ready to acquit. It was 10-2 I think the first vote count was. People
are willing to believe that a police officer – whatever a police officer
says by and large, having sat on a grand jury, I can tell you that that
unfortunately is the way that people respond when they hear a police
officer say anything.

The thing that I think was the most damning was the immediate consciousness
of guilt Yanez showed when he panics.

O`DONNELL: Yes. Yes.

REID: Not for the guy he just show in the chest.

O`DONNELL: For his career.

REID: For himself. There was immediate –

O`DONNELL: Yes. He knew his career was over.

REID: That is correct, for himself.

O`DONNELL: Yes.

REID: And then he immediately when the other officers came, they had to
decide what to do to protect his career and how to make sure he was okay.
He just pumped four bullets into a man`s chest for no reason.

O`DONNELL: Right. Joy Reid, thank you very much for joining us tonight.
Appreciate it. The last word is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Who`s actually, to your knowledge, who is working on this
legislation?

MARIA CANTWELL, UNITED STATES SENATOR: I think my colleagues from Hawaii
called it 12 or 13 dudes I think is what he said last night on the senate
floor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: An army veteran and union ironworker from southeast Wisconsin
named Randy Bryce has announced that he will run as a Democrat against
House Speaker Paul Ryan. This is part of the ad that Randy Bryce created to
accompany his announcement of his campaign.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RANDY BRYCE, ARMY VETERAN: I decided to run for office because not
everybody`s seated at the table. And it`s time to make a bigger table. I`m
the best person to represent this district because I`m a working person.
Let`s trade places. Paul Ryan, you can come work the iron and I`ll go to
D.C.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Randy Bryce will join us tomorrow night here at the Last Word
to get in his first words of campaigning for a seat

END

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