The Last Word With Lawrence O’Donnell, Transcript 11/29/2016

Guests:
David Corn, Felix Salmon, Michael Hiltzik, Steven Brill, Ezekiel Emmanuel, Roland Martin, Joyce Chizali
Transcript:

Show: THE LAST WORD WITH LAWRENCE O`DONNELL
Date: November 29, 2016
Guest: David Corn, Felix Salmon, Michael Hiltzik, Steven Brill, Ezekiel
Emmanuel, Roland Martin, Joyce Chizali

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST: That does it for us tonight, we will see you
again tomorrow, now it`s time for THE LAST WORD with Lawrence O`Donnell,
good evening Lawrence.

LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: Rachel, no kidding about that secret
ballot thing.

I was involved in – or witnessed votes on leadership in the Congress when
I worked there.

Where the secret ballot produced some shocking surprises, including
changing the outcome in one of the most important ones that I was ever –
had a front row seat to.

So, there`s some suspense to this thing.

MADDOW: Yes, the secret ballot specifically is the thing that makes –

O`DONNELL: Yes –

MADDOW: This a very newsworthy thing and a thing that we`d love to be a
fly –

O`DONNELL: Yes, on that –

MADDOW: On the wall part.

O`DONNELL: At some other time, we`ll tell you the name of a senator who
pledged one way and in the secret ballot voted the other way and tipped the
whole thing.

MADDOW: You`ve got all the dirt, Lawrence, you always have.

O`DONNELL: I`ll meet you later.

MADDOW: Thanks, my friend –

O`DONNELL: Thank you, thanks, Rachel. Breaking news tonight on Donald
Trump`s transition team, big breaking news.

We have pictures of Donald Trump and Mitt Romney from their dinner meeting
tonight. Reince Priebus also attended that dinner.

This is the second time Donald Trump and Mitt Romney have met since the
election. Mitt Romney is reportedly a top contender for Secretary of
State.

Mitt Romney spoke about the dinner just a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MITT ROMNEY, FORMER MASSACHUSETTS GOVERNOR: I had a wonderful evening with
President-elect Trump.

We had another discussion about affairs throughout the world and these
discussions I`ve had with him have been enlightening and interesting and
engaging.

I`ve enjoyed them very much. I was also very impressed by the remarks he
made on his victory night.

By the way, it`s not easy winning. I know that myself. He did something I
tried to do and was unsuccessful in accomplishing.

He won the general election, and he continues with a message of inclusion
and bringing people together.

And his vision is something which obviously connected with the American
people in a very powerful way.

The last few weeks he`s been carrying out a transition effort, and I have
to tell you, I`ve been impressed by what I`ve seen in the transition
effort. The people he`s selected as members of his cabinet are solid,
effective, capable people.

Some of them I know very well, Nikki Haley and I go way back. She`s an
outspoken, strong, powerful leader.

Tom Price is someone who actually came to my office before he run for
Senate, and we spent time talking about healthcare.

What an expert and solid thinker in that arena and others. Jeff Sessions
was someone who I knew through my campaigns, helped me very early on.

He has a distinguished record in the Senate, and of course, many others,
Betsy DeVos and a long list of people, very impressive individuals.

I happen to think that America`s best days are ahead of us. I think you`re
going to see America continuing to lead the world in this century.

And what I`ve seen through these discussions I`ve had with President-elect
Trump as well as what we`ve seen in his speech at the night of his victory,
as well as the people he`s selected as part of his transition.

All of those things combined give me increasing hope that President-elect
Trump is the very man who can lead us to that better future. Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: And here is what Mitt Romney had to say about Donald Trump
during the campaign.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROMNEY: He`s not of the temperament of the kind of stable, thoughtful
person we need as leader.

His imagination must not be married to real power. Think of Donald Trump`s
personal qualities: the bullying, the greed, the showing off, the misogyny,
the absurd third grade theatrics.

Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud, his promises are as worthless as a degree
from Trump University.

(CHEERS)

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: And that was before Donald Trump agreed to pay $25 million to
the victims of Trump University.

NBC News has confirmed two new picks for the Trump cabinet. Former Trump
Campaign Finance Chief Steve Mnuchin as Treasury Secretary of State.

Steven Mnuchin is everything that Donald Trump campaigned against. He`s a
former partner at the investment bank Goldman Sachs.

He worked for liberal billionaire George Soros who Trump adviser Steve
Bannon believes is part of a worldwide conspiracy to the dire voters a real
voice in governing.

Steven Mnuchin has contributed to all of Hillary Clinton`s campaigns prior
to her last presidential campaign.

NBC News is also confirming that real billionaire and private equity
investor Wilbur Ross is expected to be named Commerce Secretary.

Wilbur Ross is also a former contributor to Democratic Party candidates.
NBC reports that Ross was implicated in the 2006 Sago mine disaster in
Sago, West Virginia. That resulted in the deaths of a dozen miners due in
part to overlooked safety concerns.

The mine was owned by a subsidiary of one of Ross` companies, and he
acknowledged at the time having being aware of potential safety issues in
the mine.

Donald Trump`s transition team officially announced today that Elaine Chao
is Donald Trump`s nominee for Secretary of Transportation.

Elaine Chao was the deputy Transportation Secretary under George H.W. Bush.
The Secretary of Labor under George W. Bush and she`s Senate Majority
leader Mitch McConnell`s wife.

Which means she will have one of the fastest and easiest Senate
confirmations of the 21st century.

And of course it seems like days ago, but it was just this morning that
Donald Trump began the day as he so often does, with a preposterous tweet.

Nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag, if they do, there must
be consequences, perhaps loss of citizenship or a year in jail.

The tweet came about 30 minutes after “Fox News” reported on what it says
was a flag-burning incident weeks ago at a college in Massachusetts.

Railing against flag burning has been a popular form of pandering over the
last couple of decades for both Democrats, including Hillary Clinton and
Republicans.

But with the Supreme Court ruling definitively that flag burning is a form
of political expression protected by the first amendment, even the most
conservative Republicans have dropped the subject.

But no one has ever proposed the loss of citizenship for burning a flag,
because loss of citizenship is not a constitutional option as a criminal
penalty.

And that is clearly something Donald Trump does not know. But our criminal
penalties are limited to the death penalty, prison time, jail time, fines,
revoking driver`s licenses, suspension of driver`s licenses, seizure of
property to satisfy fines.

But not the loss of citizenship. Never the loss of citizenship. And so,
you may lose Medicare benefits under the Trump presidency.

You might lose Social Security benefits under the Trump presidency. And
you might lose Medicaid or your health insurance.

But all of you millions and millions of flag burners out there can just
continue to burn those flags up by the millions every single year or once a
year or once every few years or once a decade, whatever it is.

Whatever that number is. The number of flag burnings in this country is so
tiny that no one is keeping a real count of it.

However, the number of arguable flag desecrations of sorts by putting the
flag on bikinis or hats or sweatshirts is limitless.

And most of the people doing that firmly believe they are honoring the
flag, not desecrating it because as the constitution understands honor and
desecration are in the eye of the beholder or the wearer.

Joining us now, Felix Salmon; senior editor at Fusion and David Corn;
Washington Bureau chief for “Mother Jones” and an Msnbc political analyst.

David, what do you make of Mitt Romney`s night with Donald Trump and the
rest of what you`re hearing about this cabinet?

DAVID CORN, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, MOTHER JONES: Well, that video you
just showed is what it looks like when someone is eating crow.

(LAUGHTER)

I mean, I know they put the menu out, and he had the lamb chops, not the
sirloin and they had frog legs. I understand that, but I think it was all
crow. A crow-full-turkey, whatever it might be.

Because you know, you just can`t – you can`t reconcile what you showed
Mitt saying a couple of months ago with what he`s saying now.

Now, that said, it may be a good thing for humanity if there`s someone in
the cabinet who is not as crazy as Michael Flynn when it comes to national
security.

And that somebody has to be Mitt Romney, so be it. But he is really – as
they said about George H.W. Bush years ago, putting his manhood in a blind
trust when he comes out and he just sucks up to Trump that way.

O`DONNELL: Yes, Felix, he`s – Mitt Romney has had such a troubled history
with Donald Trump.

In Mitt Romney`s own campaign when he had that tortured moment where he had
to go into a Las Vegas casino to get the Donald Trump blessing.

You could just feel how awful that felt to Mitt Romney. But as David just
mentioned, should we be hoping tonight that Mitt Romney does get that job
or some job in that cabinet so that there is someone, at least as sane as
Mitt Romney in that administration.

FELIX SALMON, SENIOR EDITOR, FUSION: I`m trying should we be hoping that
Steven Mnuchin becomes Treasury Secretary. He seems to be a pretty sane
person. He has some pretty ugly history in terms of overseeing failed
banks and foreclosures –

O`DONNELL: Please, take your time in explaining that.

SALMON: OK, so, he used to own a bank which threw a lot of people into
foreclosure between 2009 and 2011.

He managed – he took a bunch of losses on those loans, but he managed to
get the U.S. government to pay for a lot of those losses.

He likes Wilbur Ross, the new Commerce Secretary is very good at making
lots of money for capital and leaving labor out in the – you know, desert.

And he is probably a billionaire. Wilbur Ross is definitely a billionaire.
If his – these are the class of people who make lots of money for people
with money and who don`t really care about real people`s jobs.

But at the same time, they are technocrats, they are not chaos monkeys –

O`DONNELL: Right –

SALMON: They don`t – you don`t get to be partner at Goldman Sachs without
hiring accomplished people who are professional and who are very good at
what they do and who do it well.

And that is the kind of person you want running a major institution like
the U.S. Treasury. That is the kind of person you want running the
Department of State.

And so if you have accomplished technocrats running those institutions,
that`s a lot better than if you have, you know, Steve Bannon or one of his
you know, accolades in that job. So –

CORN: But you know –

SALMON: It`s a low bar, but it`s – yes.

CORN: Yes –

O`DONNELL: Go ahead, David.

CORN: Well, this is bait and switch. Remember when Donald Trump was
saying that the problem is the cabal of international bankers –

O`DONNELL: Yes! –

CORN: And decrying elitists? These are the people he`s talking about.

O`DONNELL: Right –

CORN: The Wilbur Ross, the Steven Mnuchins of the world –

(CROSSTALK)

SALMON: You can`t trust everything that Donald Trump says?

CORN: Yes, you know, I`m just coming to that conclusion, Felix. But you
know, I – you know, I still – I can`t help but feel bad for some of those
Trump voters who almost believed what Trump was saying.

Because he has just pulled the biggest con ever. I mean, this is – until
tomorrow`s con, but I mean, it just happens day in and day out.

He said stuff that doesn`t matter, and now he`s bringing in the elitists,
the people who live in the swamp.

He is not draining the swamp, he is soaking the swamp for his own purposes
and bringing in people who are part of the Washington establishment –

SALMON: But he`s feeding those people of tweets and like cheap headlines
about carrier jokes.

O`DONNELL: What does it say about Steve Bannon`s influence? Because these
seem to be the kinds of people Steve Bannon doesn`t want in the
administration.

SALMON: These are absolutely the people who Steve Bannon has spent most of
his – you know, the second half of his career railing against and wanting
to bring down. So, yes –

O`DONNELL: After being one of them himself.

SALMON: And often being –

O`DONNELL: Yes –

SALMON: Well, I mean, who in this – like in this new administration will
not have worked at Goldman Sachs –

O`DONNELL: Yes –

SALMON: Interesting question –

O`DONNELL: Yes –

SALMON: But yes, it`s – no one knows what Bannon is privately advising
Trump.

No one knows whether Bannon actually believes the kind of stuff that he was
publishing on “Breitbart News” or whether he was just doing it as a way of
– you know, throwing red meat to people who are very hungry for red meat.

No one really knows anything about the –

O`DONNELL: That is the thing –

SALMON: The origin of this administration –

O`DONNELL: That is a great point, David Corn, that Steve Bannon could be
just as much the con man as Donald Trump, and everything he was selling on
“Breitbart”, he has known has been nonsense.

CORN: Well, you know, he did tell “Mother Jones” that he saw “Breitbart”
as a platform for what he calls the alt-right, what other people call white
nationalists.

So, was he just a privateer or making a buck off white nationalists and
Nazis? Or did he see there were some political force there to get behind
Donald Trump and then sort of ride that into the White House and then say
see you later?

I don`t know when we don`t yet – we`ve never seen anyone like him in a
position of authority within the White House.

So, it remains to be seen what he will do and what his influence will be.
But when we see Donald Trump tweeting out this morning that he`s going to
revoke citizenship if you burn the flag, that seems to fall into the Bannon
side of the ledger.

So, it`s not as if Bannon is twiddling his thumbs and doing nothing. That
does seem to be –

SALMON: Yes –

CORN: Part –

SALMON: This along –

CORN: How his angry white –

(CROSSTALK)

Nationalists –

(CROSSTALK)

Populism.

O`DONNELL: All right, we`re going to have to hold it there. You know,
whenever I see these names come out, I immediately go to the Senate
confirmation hearings and what questions are going to be asked.

And Wilbur Ross in his Senate confirmation hearing is going to be asked
about the death of those miners and how that happened in his company and
how he – how the management system that allowed that to happen.

That`s going to be a very serious confirmation hearing. David Corn, Felix
Salmon, thank you both very much for joining us tonight, really appreciate
it.

SALMON: Thanks –

CORN: Sure thing.

O`DONNELL: Coming up, as promised, as advertised on Twitter, flag burning,
our very own flag burning right here on THE LAST WORD, that is next, do not
miss it. And the story Donald Trump doesn`t want us to talk about. Here`s
a hint, it`s about a hotel.

And why – this is going to be later. Why Donald Trump`s pick for
Secretary of Health and Human Services is a very big problem for Donald
Trump.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: OK, here it is. As promised, flag burning time on THE LAST
WORD.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The bill of rights. The first ten amendments from the
constitution, including my favorite amendment, the first amendment.

It`s the one that guarantees not just everybody in this room, but every
single person in the United States, every citizen, every visitor, every
magician freedom of speech.

It`s the one that says if we want to add a little bit of spontaneous
combustion to our simple vanish, we can do that.

We can take some tinder and a very eccentric magic wand, and we can do
this, and it`s OK. Because even though the flag is gone, the bill of
rights remains.

(APPLAUSE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he just burn an American flag in the White House?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Yes, you can burn one in the White House if you want to. At a
kids birthday party, as a trick, or as a political statement, whatever you
want.

I wrote that episode of West Wing, I think it was season six. I got Penn
Jillette to do it, and this is now confession time.

Penn Jillette wrote himself that part of it. The actual language that we
used in the trick because Penn and Teller were already doing that trick
before we stole it for the West Wing.

And since then, whenever people go to the show and they see Penn and Teller
do the trick, they always say, oh, it`s so great that the West Wing wrote
that trick for you. It`s just – it`s just a crime against authorship.
That was all Penn and Teller.

Coming up, what do you think Donald Trump doesn`t want us to be talking
about today? That`s what we`re going to talk about.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: We know what Donald Trump wants us to talk about tonight. It`s
always easy to know what he wants us to talk about tonight.

He wants us to talk about his dinner with Mitt and of course his crazy flag
burning tweet. But now it`s time for tonight`s edition of what does Donald
Trump not want us to talk about?

That`s the question. He doesn`t want us to talk about this article –
“Trump hotel lease debacle” which appeared in government executive.

If you`ve never heard of government executives it`s probably because you
are not a high-ranking civilian or military official responsible for
defending the nation and carrying out its laws.

Those words are actually the magazine`s own definition of its readership.
I`ve never seen a copy of the magazine outside of Washington.

Today, two experts on laws dealing with government operations wrote in
government executives that Donald Trump is about to violate the terms of
his lease with the federal government to operate a hotel in the old post
office building in Washington D.C.

Which Donald Trump promoted several times during his campaign.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are opening the old
post office. We`re just opening up on Pennsylvania Avenue right next to
the White House. So, if I don`t get there one way, I`m going to get to
Pennsylvania Avenue another.

I have a great, the best – probably the best piece of land in Washington.
One of the great pieces of land, the old post office, and I`m very proud of
it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Today`s article cited this clause from the 60-year lease which
Donald Trump signed two years before announcing his candidacy.

“No elected official of the government of the United States shall be
admitted to any share or part of this lease or to any benefit that may
arise there from.”

Donald Trump will be in breach of that contract on January 20th, the moment
he takes the oath of office.

Joining us now, Michael Hiltzik; Pulitzer Prize-winning business columnist
for the “Los Angeles Times”.

Well, Michael, you can begin – almost every Trump episode with “we`ve
never seen anything like this”, but here we go. Donald Trump in violation
of that lease on minute one of his presidency.

MICHAEL HILTZIK, BUSINESS COLUMNIST, LOS ANGELES TIMES: Yes, I think there
are two things that really are striking about this particular case.

One is that unlike the discussion of whether he`s got conflicts of interest
under the emolument clause of the U.S. constitution.

This is something that I think the average person can understand. It`s
like the identity theft committed by Wells Fargo bankers.

You know, it`s – there`s nothing absolute about it as Steve Schooner and
Dan Gordon wrote in this piece he referred to.

It`s in black and white, it basically says that the moment Donald Trump
becomes a federal official on January 20th, he is in breach of the lease.

And they say that the general services administration should cut that lease
now. It should – it should end it now so that there`s no question about
whether it`s a breach.

The other thing that I think is important is that this is – this is
another indication, I think, of the concern that so many people have and
should have about whether Donald Trump really has his hands around the fact
that when he becomes president, that`s his only job.

That he can`t balance – he can`t juggle being a hotel owner and a real
estate magnate and being president of the United States. He really has to
divest himself of all other concerns other than serving the public as
president.

And there just is not enough, there aren`t any signs quite yet that he
understands that or at least that he`s willing to accommodate that fact.

O`DONNELL: And Michael, can he get himself off this lease by basically
just selling the hotel before inauguration day?

HILTZIK: Well, it depends who he sells it to. Schooner and Gordon made
the point that if he sells it to his children, then there`s still going to
be a question as to whether he`s getting benefits from the lease.

Because he is – you know, the putative head of the Trump organization,
which is the parent company of the lease holder.

The question of whether his children are part of his business and whether
he`s still connected with the business, that`s still going to be there.

I think the only thing – they didn`t say that, but I think we all probably
are thinking that the only thing he can really do is retire from the Trump
organization, to cut all ties, to cash out, to put the cash in a blind
trust.

Then we will have confidence that he`s not actually performing two jobs at
once that are – that can be in conflict with each other and that are
essentially incompatible with each other. I don`t think half measures are
really going to work here.

O`DONNELL: And let`s not forget that the president of the United States
appoints the head of the general services administration which is the
person that affect who is in charge of that lease for the government.

We have that to look forward to. Michael Hiltzik, thank you very much for
joining us tonight, really appreciate it.

Coming up, why Donald Trump`s pick for Secretary of Health and Human
Services is a very big problem, which is getting bigger for Donald Trump.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: Between this nomination of an avowed
Medicare opponent and Republicans here in Washington threatening to
privatize Medicare, it`s clear that Washington Republicans are plotting a
war on seniors next year.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: That`s it, war on seniors. That`s what you`re going to be
hearing from Democrats like Chuck Schumer all year next year if Donald
Trump abandons his campaign pledge not to cut Medicare or Social Security.

If you`re on Medicare or Social Security or Medicaid or you benefit from
the Affordable Care Act, you have every right to be worried about what the
Trump Administration is going to do to those programs. Donald Trump`s
nominee for Secretary of Health and Human Services Congressman Tom Price
has called for the repeal of the Affordable Care Act, and is on record
supporting the repeal and replacement of Medicare.

Congressman Price has introduced legislation that would allow individuals
to opt out of Medicare and he is a long time supporter of House Speaker
Paul Ryan`s plan to convert Medicare to a privatized system which Paul Ryan
calls premium support. Here`s Congressman Price defending the first and
most extreme of the Paul Ryan budgets in 2011.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. TOM PRICE (R), GEORGIA: We`ve got to have something different than
business as usual. and part of that whole discussion means that we`ve got
to address the issues of Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security, which is
what our budget did which is what the Republican House Budget did in a very
positive way in the area of Health Care, allowing seniors after those over
the age of 55 are allowed to keep Medicare. Those under the age of 55
would move into a program that allows them to select the kind of coverage
they want for themselves so patients and families and doctors can make
medical decisions and not the Federal Government.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Joining us now Steven Brill, journalist and author of America`s
Bitter Pill, Money Politics, Backroom Deals and the Fight to Fix our Broken
Healthcare system. Also with us Dr. Ezekiel Emmanuel, Chair of Medical
Ethics and Policy at the University of Pennsylvania and one of the authors
of the Affordable Care Act. Steve Rowe, the threats to the various
beneficiaries in the health care system under the Republicans in the house
are quite serious and have been known. But we had this Republican
candidate win the presidency saying absolutely will not cut Medicare, won`t
cut Social Security but will repeal the Affordable Care Act. What should
people be expecting? What should they be worried about?

STEVEN BRILL, AUTHOR, “AMERICA`S BITTER PILL”: Well tom price never got
that memo. What he did get were hundreds of thousands of dollars of
campaign contributions in his last election, the one that just happened
when he where he was running virtually unopposed. His opponent raised
$8,000. He raised $2 million. The three top industries that contributed
to his campaign, hundreds of thousands of dollars each were guess what, the
pharmaceutical industry, the insurance industry and various doctors groups.

He is the author of an effort to stop a CMS, that`s the Medicare Agency, an
experiment that they were empowered to try because of the work that Zeke
did in the Whitehouse that would lower the cost of cancer drugs by taking
away the incentive of hospitals and doctors to prescribe the most expensive
cancer drugs. He is leading right now in the house the effort to block
that. Once he gets this job, he doesn`t have to lead any effort at all.
He can just block it on his own.

O`DONNELL: Zeke Emmanuel, what do you see developing in the Trump
Administration, given the campaign promise, never going to cut Medicare,
never going to cut Social Security? We are going to repeal the Affordable
Care Act and replace it with something terrific.

EZEKIEL EMMANUEL, CHAIR OF MEDICAL ETHICS AND POLICY, UNIVERSITY OF
PENNSYLVANIA: Well, I think at the moment all you can say is there`s a lot
of uncertainty in which direction they`re going, how much Representative
Price will speak for the President is unclear. The president, I think, has
genuinely said he`s committed to getting all people who have coverage,
coverage and in making sure that they get it. At various points on the
campaign trail he said he likes Medicare. He wants to keep Medicare. And
he wants to make sure that we have universal coverage in this country, he`s
even talked about Medicare negotiating drug prices. How this pick of
Representative Price matches those policy statements he made. I think it
just makes it unclear which way we`re going. And, you know, disagreements
among the Republicans about how to replace Obamacare have been quite
common. We`ve never really got and coherent plan. So we`ll just have to
see. I do think that may create an opening for negotiation with President
Trump.

O`DONNELL: And I think it`s unlikely that Donald Trump asked for some
briefing on exactly how much he disagrees with Price on what before he was
chosen. But let`s, let`s show how much he disagrees with him. Let`s
listen to Donald Trump, the candidate, on these subjects.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: they`re attacking Social Security, the Republicans. They`re
attacking Medicare and Medicaid, but they`re not saying how to make the
country rich again. people have been paying in for years. They`re going
to cut social security. They`re going to cut Medicare, cut Medicaid. I`m
the one saying I`m not going to do that.

I am going to protect and save your Social Security and your Medicare. You
made a deal a long time ago, long time ago. We`re going to save and
protect your Social Security and Medicare. We`re going to save and protect
your Social Security and Medicare and Hillary is going to cut your social
security and really injure Medicare. That`s what`s going to happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: We`re going to save and protect your Social Security and
Medicare.

BRILL: I don`t think he knows what those programs are. He for sure
doesn`t know what Medicaid is because he said there you`ve paid into
medicaid.

O`DONNELL: Right.

BRILL: And Medicaid people don`t pay into it. It`s for poor people. He
does not know what he`s talking about. I tell you what he does know in the
financial disclosure statements that he had to file, such as they were, he
did have to list all the stocks he owns. The largest group of stock he owns
are the drug companies, 11 of them, including the maker of the $1,000
hepatitis C pill. Now that`s not an issue with selling off real estate. He
could easily put those stocks into a blind trust. All that money is
liquid. He hasn`t even done that. And he has this obvious conflict of
interest in appointing Tom Price, he`s picked the guy that the drug
companies love the most.

O`DONNELL: Zeke, what are the Republicans going to run into now that they
actually are in a position to repeal Obamacare? They`ve got a President
who would sign a repeal of Obamacare. They`ve never had to face the
reality of repealing Obamacare before. They just got to do their gimmick
voting. What`s difference for them now? What will they discover about what
might happen if they do that.

EMMANUEL: Well if you repeal Obamacare, it`s very difficult for the
Republicans to keep their pledge that the no pre-existing condition
exclusion on insurance companies is going to be maintained without some way
of guaranteeing people that they can get coverage if they have cancer or
heart disease or rheumatoid arthritis. That balancing act, I think, is
going to create a lot of problems for the Republicans. Especially because
the first person who has a pre-existing condition and cannot get
chemotherapy is going to present a huge problem for them.

The second problem of course is affordability and keeping the whole system
actually affordable. It`s not clear the Republican plans are going to keep
health insurance has an affordable rate. And I think that is going to come
back to haunt them because they pledged that as a very big attack on
Obamacare.

O`DONNELL: Going to leave it there. Steve Brill, thank you for joining us
and dr. Emmanuel before you go, do you know any doctors who are poets?

EMMANUEL: I don`t personally know any doctors who are poets. But William
Carlos Williams was a famous poet and a famous physician in New Jersey.

O`DONNELL: That`s right. I`ve been reading about doctors and poets
because I met someone who wants to be both a doctor and poet. And we`re
going to introduce you to her later in the show. This might be another
doctor and poet. We`re going to leave it right there and be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: the last presidential candidate before Hillary Clinton to lose
the Electoral College and win the vote has changed his position on the
Electoral College. Al Gore said this today in Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AL GORE, 45TH VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES 1993-2001: You know,
even after the Supreme Court decision in December of 2000, I continued to
support the Electoral College because one of its original purposes was to
tie the states together. I have changed my view on that. I do think that
it should be eliminated. I think that a – I think moving to a popular
vote system is not without perils, not without problems. It`s not a
simple, you know, one choice is all good, the other is all bad. It`s a
balancing act. But I think the balance has shifted, in my mind, at least.
And I think that we should go to a popular vote. I think it would stimulate
public participation in the democratic process like nothing else we could
possibly do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: According to the Cook Political Report, Hillary Clinton`s lead
has now surpassed 2.3 million votes. Coming up, the most controversial
person on Donald Trump`s list of possible nominees, Roland Martin knows a
lot about him, has tangled a bit with him on TV, and Roland will join us
next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: Milwaukee County Sheriff, David Clark, a Trump campaign
supporter is apparently being considered to lead the Department of Homeland
Security. The two men met at Trump Tower yesterday. Sheriff Clark is one
Donald Trump`s most outspoken supporters. He`s best known for his views on
policing and his attacks on the Black Lives Matter Movement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF DAVID CLARK, MILWAUKEE COUNTY: There is no police brutality in the
United States. There is no racism in the hearts of police officers as
black lives matter which I have i have renamed it Black Lies, L-I-E-S
Matter. We`ve need to deligitimize this Black Matters Movement. We had
enough of their nonsense. I`m one of those who comes from the school if a
fight is inevitable, hit first and hit hard. It is pitchfork time and
torches time in America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Joining us, Roland Martin, the host and managing editor of News
One Now on TV One. Roland you`ve encountered the sheriff. You have argued
with him on TV. What do we need to know about him and how would the
confirmation hearing go?

ROLAND MARTIN, HOST, NEWS ONE NOW: This man`s an absolute joke. He should
not even be near any Department of the Federal Government. Right now, four
people have died in his jail in Milwaukee county, including an infant. One
inmate died from dehydration, severe dehydration. He refuses to answer any
questions. Basically, he`s created this persona of being this tough-
talking, law enforcement, a black joe arpaio. Wears his cowboy hat thinks
he`s like basically, you know, an old school sheriff, but he`s a joke.
This guy should not be running any federal agency. He is a dangerous,
dangerous person leading a federal agency.

O`DONNELL: Well Roland, as we all know, you don`t get to sit there and
refuse to answer the question in a senate confirmation hearing. I mean, if
he`s going to go into the Senate on a confirmation hearing for a position
hike this, of course he`s going to be asked about deaths occurring under
his watch.

MARTIN: Yes. And what he`s going to do is he`s actually going to sit
there and stretch and lie and manipulate. I`ve watched Congressional
testimony when he was talking about the death of Eric Garner, and he said
oh, no, he didn`t guy of a chokehold. It was because of a heart condition.
And I`m sitting there, going are you serious? T remember there was a
congression of black coccus who are just aghast and listening to him.

And that`s what he does. I mean he goes in the attack – Politifact sent a
Tweet out earlier showing the massive number of lies he`s repeated on the
air. He`s also said on the air, don`t even protect these protesters. Wait
a minute, he`s being considered for the Department of Homeland Security,
and he doesn`t believe that even protesters should be protected. He`s
always trashing Black Lives Matter, but every time cops have gotten in
trouble especially in Chicago I`ve tweeted him and said it`s amazing how
you`ve grown silent whenever cops get in trouble. And that`s what he
does. And so I even challenged him in the Republican National Convention,
because he said he would go toe to toe against anybody on Black Lives
Matter. I said come on my show on TV One. I`ll have you for the whole
hour, no one else. I`ll pay for your ticket first class. And did his
people ever get back with us? No, they didn`t, because he`s scared to be
challenged. If he does get nominated by Trump, trust me, you want to watch
those confirmation hearings, because they`re going to be explosive.

O`DONNELL: But Roland you have been on TV with him and you are one of the
people whose kind wrestled with him on TV where he ran into truth versus
his fantasy.

MARTIN: Yes, absolutely. And so he has created and concocted his own idea
of law enforcement. He literally has said there`s no police brutality in
America. And you go, press the tape. And this one and this one and this
one. And he swears, he said that stuff ended in the `70s, and I`m going,
dude, you`re a stone`s throw from Chicago, what are you talking about?
He`s absolutely nuts. And I`m telling you look I know Trump loves
rewarding loyalty, but this guy is dangerous. And to be Secretary of
Homeland Security he`s not even remotely qualified for that job. There are
a lot of other people who know how to do the job. Sheriff David Clark is
not one of them.

O`DONNELL: It does seem as though Donald Trump or the people putting these
lists together are concerned with trying to get some black faces on this
list.

MARTIN: Well look I know African Americans who are in law enforcement. I
know African Americans who are Republican who Donald Trump can pick. Not
David Clark and because again and the question is can you do the job. He
simply can`t do it.


O`DONNELL: Roland martin, we`re going to leave it there for tonight.
Roland thank you for joining us, appreciate it.

MARTIN: Thanks, lawrence.

O`DONNELL: Coming up, in difficult times, we turn to our poets. Andso
tonight`s last word will be a poem from a poet unlike any you have ever
heard.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: We have breaking news Donald Trump has just Tweeted I will be
going to Indiana on Thursday to make a major announcement concerning
carrier AC staying in Indianapolis, great deal for workers. But Indiana
may still be loosing another thousand jobs that Terrier might still be
moving elsewhere. We will have more details on this as those details
develop. We`re going to know to learn more about it as the story develops.
Time and we`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: Time for tonight`s last word. Is your doctor a poet? Maybe a
secret poet? Some medical schools encourage their students to write poetry.
A Harvard Medical School professor says it helps doctors understand “the
human aspect of suffering, not just knowing how many lymph nodes are
positive and where the pain is on a one to ten scale” I`ve been thinking
about doctors and poets now for a week now since I met someone who wants to
be both.

Joyce Chizali is in her second year of high school in a Mangochi, a town in
Southern Malawi in East Africa. Joyce is a great student. One of the best
in her school which is one of the better schools in Malawi. Unlike all
public high schools in Malawi the school charger tuition and because it`s
a boarding school it also charges for room and board. By Malawi standards
it is a very, very expensive school. It can cost close to close to $200 a
year to send a girl to that school. And that is the only problem Joyce has
ever faced as a student, paying her school fees, her tuition, her room, her
board, her uniform. And when I met her last week she wasn`t going to
school anymore because her father was unable to continue paying her school
fees.

JOYCE CHIZALI, STUDENT: When I come here in the school the head teacher
sent us home to collect school fees.

O`DONNELL: To collect school fees.

CHIZALI: Yes, because I didn`t finish paying school fees. My dad can`t
manage to pay school fees for me.

O`DONNELL: What does your father do?

CHIZALI: My father was stop from work many years ago and now do work labor
and he ends a little amount of money.

O`DONNELL: And that is exactly why the KIND Fund provides scholarships for
girls in Malawi. I`ve heard a version of that same story from countless
girls in Malawi, girls they need extra help to stay in school for many
reasons. The girls` graduation rate is half the graduation rate for boys.
The KIND Fund was created as a unique partnership between MSNBC and UNICEF
to provide desks for schools in Malawi where most school don`t have any
desks. Kids in need of desks, KIND that was the original concept and
remains the primary mission of KIND.

On another night I`ll show you what happened last week in Malawi where we
delivered desks to a school that had never seen desks. We added the girl`s
scholarship option to the KIND Fund four years ago and we are now
supporting thousands of girls in high schools in Malawi. And so on this
giving Tuesday, one of the options I hope you`ll consider is the KIND Fund.
You can go to lastworddesks.msnbc.com to make a contribution. You can
specify that the contribution go to desks or scholarships. It can be in
any amount, $10 can help. And if you can - you can also have that
giftdesignated in the name of anybody on your holiday gift list. Giving
Tuesday is observed globally and dedicated to giving support to worthy
causes. MSNBC is giving Tuesday`s leading media partner for the third year
in a row.

When I asked Joyce to meet me last week, she came to meet me in her school
uniform, because she still sees herself as a student, even though she was
at home and unable to go to school. For Joyce, it`s an honor to wear her
school uniform, and thanks to your contributions to the KIND Fund, I was
able to tell Joyce that she was once again going to be able to wear her
school uniform every day.

O`DONNELL: we`re going to fix your problem with school fees OK?

CHIZALI: Wow, yeah. I`m very excited.

O`DONNELL: We`re going to help you pay, we`re going to get the school fees
for you.

CHIZALI: Wow, that`s very interesting.

O`DONNELL: To stay in school and you won`t have to worry about it at all,
OK/?

CHIZALI: Yes.
.

O`DONNELL: And your father doesn`t have to worry about it anymore.

CHIZALI: OK. Thank you.

O`DONNELL: And we`re going to make sure you have school fees to go all the
way through and finish.

CHIZALI: Wow.

O`DONNELL: And finish form three and finish form four and graduate and
finish the school.

CHIZALI: OK. Thank you very much.

O`DONNELL: OK?

CHIZALI: Yes.

O`DONNELL: So you don`t have to worry about it anymore.

CHIZALI: OK, yes. I`m really very excited. Yes. I don`t know how to
thank you. I`m very excited. I didn`t know that this test would come to me
because there a lot of girls out there like cooking, getting married,
because they don`t have a someone to pay for them. So I`m very thankful
for the gift. And I promise to work hard to make you.

O`DONNELL: I was a little surprised when Joyce told me she wanted to be a
doctor and a poet. And i asked her if she had a poem she could recite.
She offered this one.

CHIZALI: my – little by little.

O`DONNELL: Little by little.

CHIZALI: Yes.

O`DONNELL: OK.

CHIZALI: Little by little we`d go, no matter how far the distance is, we
are not shaken. Little by little, we`ll go. And reach our destination.
Little by little we`ll go, no matter how bumpy the road can (INAUDIBLE) we
are not going to come back. Little by little we`ll go. Little by little
we`ll go, no matter how narrow the path is we are going to force ourselves
to pass. And little by little we`d go and leave the promise land. Don`t
be shaken. Don`t turn back, little by little you`ll go and reach your
destination.

O`DONNELL: Thank you. MSNBC`s live coverage continues into “THE 11TH
HOUR”. That`s next.

END

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