The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell, Transcript 8/24/2016

Peter Wehner, Rory Cooper, Glenn Beck, Clarence Page, David Cay Johnston

Date: August 24, 2016
Guest: Peter Wehner, Rory Cooper, Glenn Beck, Clarence Page, David Cay

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC: All right, that does it for us tonight, we will see
you again tomorrow, now it`s time for THE LAST WORD with Lawrence
O`Donnell, good evening, Lawrence.

LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, HOST, THE LAST WORD: Hey, Rachel, I just saw you book
a Donald Trump interview through Kellyanne Conway on your show. She`s now
booking for you.

MADDOW: Well, you know, I feel like if you`ve got to have somebody promise
something for somebody else, that person`s campaign manager is about as
good a recommendation as I can get. So, hopefully –

O`DONNELL: That is as good as it can get –

MADDOW: It will happen –

O`DONNELL: It would be Donald Trump`s first Msnbc primetime interview.

MADDOW: Really?

O`DONNELL: I don`t know why he`s been avoiding us, Rachel, I can`t – I
can`t figure it out.

MADDOW: If – I can`t imagine it will ever happen. But please, God –


MADDOW: Thanks, Lawrence –

O`DONNELL: Have faith, Rachel.


MADDOW: Thanks my friend –

O`DONNELL: Thank you. Well, Glenn Beck is here tonight, yes, that Glenn
Beck. We will be having a long-anticipated conversation. He was booked on
the show once before, and we couldn`t do it because of breaking news, but
finally he`s here.

And finally, Glenn Beck and I have something we agree on. And also
tonight, the softening of Donald Trump continued, although even while he is
softening before our very eyes, he insists that he is still very strong.


NOMINEE FOR 2016 ELECTION: There certainly can be a softening.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why do it at all?

TRUMP: Every once in a while I could probably do – I could make
statements maybe a little bit differently.

COULTER: Why do we –


COULTER: Have to hear about the poor hard-working –


COULTER: Illegal with the children?

TRUMP: If I soften things up in terms of statements made, that would be

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s very difficult to figure out what his actual
policy is.

TRUMP: I`ll be able to make sure that when you walk down the street you`re
not going to be shot.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You want to know where Trump stands on immigration,
you`ll just have to wait until a year ago.

TRUMP: They`re bringing drugs. They`re bringing crime. They`re rapists,
and some I assume are good people. Sixteen months ago, I was like the
fair-haired boy, all of a sudden, I`m an outsider.

CHARLIE SYKES, RADIO HOST: If you get all of your information from
“Breitbart” and “Infowars”, you`re going to be surprised by what`s going to
happen in November.

TRUMP: If I don`t win, it will be worse than ever before. You will see.
You will see.


O`DONNELL: With 75 days left in the presidential campaign, we are now into
day two of the softening. The softening will surely be the title of the
Ryan Murphy miniseries about the Trump campaign, starring of course John

Donald Trump is in the second day of softening his campaign position on
immigration issues by completely reversing his position on deporting 11
million undocumented people in the United States who he previously promised
to deport, every last one of them.

Some Trump supporters are very worried about the softening. Boston
conservative radio host Howie Carr said in his “Boston Herald” column
today, “hey, Donald Trump, don`t go softening your stance against illegal
immigration too much. Don`t blow it.”

And Ann Coulter is very worried about the softening. Here she is on a
conservative radio show this morning.


COULTER: Look, it`s a pretty – it`s not the biggest sellout. But why do
it at all? Why – I always thought he was going to have a humane policy on
the illegals already here.

But why not just say anyone here illegally is breaking United States laws,
they do not have a constitutional right to stay in this country.

We will determine who stays and who goes based on the best interests of the
United States? Just say that. Why do we –


COULTER: Have to hear about the poor hard-working –


COULTER: Illegal with the children and I could be softening my policy on


O`DONNELL: In Florida today, Donald Trump was asked about the softening,
and gave an answer that was meaningless Trump gibberish.

But conspicuously did not include his previous position on deporting every
person who is in this country without documentation.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One big thing we want to talk about is immigration.
I`ve heard that you`re possibly going to be softening your stance. Is it
your plan still to deport 11 million illegal immigrants?

TRUMP: No, we have a very strong stance, and we`re going to build a wall,
and it`s going to be a wall like no other.

We`re going to do things that are very strong. Only the right people, only
people that go through a very tough vetting process are coming into the

And we`re going to have all the laws obeyed. We have laws in this country,
they`re very strong but nobody uses them. We`re going to obey the laws of
the country. It`s a very tough stance.


TRUMP: It seems the softening is beginning to bother Donald Trump, not the
idea, not the complete reversal of his position. Just the word “the
softening”. And so now when he hears the word “softening”, he likes to say
the words “very strong” and “very tough” as you just heard him say.

Earlier tonight, we learned that he told Sean Hannity exactly what Ann
Coulter doesn`t want to hear him say. He seemed to offer a word of
sympathy for undocumented workers who have been here 15 or 20 years with
their families.

Donald Trump said now everybody agrees we get the bad ones out, but when I
go through and I meet thousands and thousands of people on this subject,
and I`ve had very strong people come up to me, really great people come up
to me, and they`ve said, Mr. Trump, I love you.

But to take a person who`s been here for 15 or 20 years and throw them and
their family out, it`s so tough, Mr. Trump.” So, here`s how the softening
is playing on Howie Carr`s radio show.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Being here is a crime, Mike. And you know, you talk
about they`re going to be cut off from welfare, you know how they get
around that? They just drop an anchor baby. And then the anchor baby is an


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: American citizen –

CARR: Yes –

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t want him to back off from this. I think
immigration is the – is the – is the big issue. You know? Everything
else is related to immigration. Whether it`s a crime, welfare, lack of
jobs, the problems of the inner city.

Which is it? Are we going to follow the laws of this country or are we
going to soften the laws?


O`DONNELL: Rush Limbaugh in classic Rush form did not support or oppose
the softening. Rush Limbaugh lives in fear of his Trump-supporting
audience. So, Rush cannot allow himself to be caught saying anything
negative about Donald Trump.

And so when Rush discussed the softening, the villain in this story was not
a politician reversing his position. The villain was Rush`s old reliable
villain, what he calls the drive-by news media.


RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO HOST: OK, so Trump is apparently softening his
position on immigration. That`s what the drive-bys are saying. Trump is
now saying, well, I don`t know about deportation. Well, we`re going to
talk about it.

Well, some of these are really good people. Well – and the drive-bys are
just ecstatic because they think Trump is totally reversing himself.

And they think Trump is totally reversing himself on his number one issue,
the only reason he has support, they think he`s committing suicide.


O`DONNELL: And then Rush reached for another perennial villain to his
audience – Hillary clinton. To explain to his audience why the softening
doesn`t matter.


LIMBAUGH: Trump supporters don`t care what he does or what he says because
there is no way they are going to do anything that helps elect Hillary
Clinton. It`s no more complicated than that.


O`DONNELL: Joining us now, Peter Wehner; senior fellow at the Ethics and
Public Policy Center. He was a senior aide to President George W. Bush.
Also with us, Rory Cooper; managing director of Purple Strategies and he
advised the “Never Trump” PAC.

And here in the studio with us, Joy Reid; Msnbc national correspondent and
the host of “AM JOY” weekends on Msnbc. Joy, the softening –


What`s the matter? Come on, it`s not my word. It`s –



O`DONNELL: All right.

REID: You could call it the “ensoftening” –


REID: Which is what calls them, which is even funnier.

O`DONNELL: OK, so the softening is making Ann Coulter nervous.

REID: Uncomfortable.

O`DONNELL: Rush Limbaugh, you know, straddling the thing very carefully.

REID: Yes –

O`DONNELL: But this is day two –

REID: Yes –

O`DONNELL: Of the softening. We don`t have polls yet on how the softening
– let`s take the camera off, Joy, OK, so, she can –

REID: I need a moment –

O`DONNELL: Compose herself –

REID: I need –

O`DONNELL: While I discuss this with her. I was only kidding, keep the
camera on her. I don`t want – I want to see this. So, you know, we don`t
have polls yet –

REID: Yes –

O`DONNELL: On how the softening is working, and –

REID: Correct –

O`DONNELL: So we don`t know until we see the poll how long Donald Trump is
going to continue to soften.


REID: Or how much softening there will be, yes.


REID: So, the fascinating sort of experiment that`s going on in the Trump
campaign is whether or not a campaign that just embraced “”.

Which is kind of man-cave conservatism, right? It`s literally a website and
an ethos on the all right. The part of the basis of it is to say that
society has become too soft and feminine, and that the feminizing of
American society is what`s wrong with conservatism, what`s wrong with

That we need to buck up and toughen up and bring the manliness back to
conservatism. Then he also hires Kellyanne Conway who is clearly the
architect of the softening, right?

That she wants Trump to soften it up because they`ve got to get some
women`s votes. They can`t win without getting at least a plurality of
particularly married white women and suburban white voters.

So, they`re doing this to try to get back people who might be too
embarrassed. She`s even admitting it to vote for Donald Trump. So, the
softening comes with the embarrassment of people who want to be Trump
voters, none of this is good.

O`DONNELL: Peter Wehner, this is a complete reversal of –

Right –

O`DONNELL: A center of the central Trump position, the number one issue,
Howie Carr is right about this, the number one issue.

When he came out of the gate, was everything that he said was going on at
the southern border. And he was going to send all of those people back
across the southern –

WEHNER: Right –

O`DONNELL: Border, he`s now reversed on that completely. And the question
that we`re all wondering about is will there be any price for this or as
Rush Limbaugh says, because Hillary Clinton is the other nominee there`s
nowhere for those Trump voters to go.

WEHNER: I think there will be a price to it. Look, it is not a softening
of Donald Trump, this is the collapse of Donald Trump. And this isn`t
going to work because it`s not just that Trump has left an impression with

He`s left a searing and ugly impression, and that`s not going to be undone
in 75 days. And it`s not going to be undone this way.

And he won`t even be able to sustain this for any length of time because at
the end he is a disordered personality and he`s not going to be able to
stay on this.

Look, there`s going to be some fracture in the right, and there`s – you
know, this poor Ann Coulter, this political love affair is going to end
like Trump`s first two marriages, which is not very well. And Howie Carr,
they are more in love with nativism than they are with Trump.

But there are other people, it`s kind of cult of personality that Rush
stumbled into a truth actually for a lot of Trump supporters. It doesn`t
matter what he says. It doesn`t compute.

Reason is not – is not the wave-length that they`re on with him. So, as
he said months ago, he could go down 5th avenue and shoot some people and
he wouldn`t lose necessarily all of his supporters.

But look, this is a campaign that is cracking. And he`s having problems
with his base and he`s having problems with millennials.

And he`s having problems with non-white voters, and he`s having problems
with college voters. We`ve known he`s been a malicious and malignant
figure. But what we`re also seeing is he is utterly inept and utterly

And to watch this fall apart is actually quite an extraordinary thing, and
it`s going to continue, and Republicans are going to face a fearsome price.
And the people who hitched their wagon to Donald Trump are going down with

O`DONNELL: Now, if you no longer know or understand what Donald Trump`s
position is on immigration across the southern border, that means you
qualify to be a Trump kid.

Donald Trump Jr. last night said “I don`t know” when he was asked what his
father now means. Let`s listen to Eric Trump`s attempt to explain his
father`s position on immigration.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Clearly, he`s leaning towards a far different
position than sending them all –


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Home, right? Tell me about that evolution that –

TRUMP: I think it develops, and I think he`s going to come out and speak,
you know, very specifically about it. And he has a couple of immigration
speeches coming up, as you know very well.

And – but again, his message is America first. He will build a wall,
believe me. I mean, he will build a wall – honestly I don`t think he`s
flip-flopping at all. I mean, I think his message has always been very
clear since the beginning of the campaign, it`s America first.


O`DONNELL: Rory Cooper, so, it`s always been very clear.


O`DONNELL: But just forget about anything he ever said about deporting
everyone he could find in this country who was undocumented. And –


O`DONNELL: There`s you know, Eric Trump saying that he`s got some
immigration speeches coming up.

Well, he did, but they canceled the first one, or the only one –

COOPER: Right –

O`DONNELL: That he had coming up.

COOPER: Right, well, Lawrence, as is often the case, I agree with most of
what Pete said. But let`s look at this from a policy angle and let`s look
at it from a political angle. On a policy angle, and let`s look at this
from a political angle.

On the policy angle, Donald Trump is now articulating what every reasonable
and honest Republican leader for years has been saying.

Which is that you are not going to deport 11 million immigrants, which
include children who have never lived in another country before.

It`s not feasible, and it`s not good policy. But the reason he`s doing
this is not because he`s read up on the issue and he`s decided what`s the
right thing to do.

The reason he`s doing it to which Joy alluded to is because he thinks that
it`s the right political move when he is 20 points down where he needs to
be to try and win this election. And unfortunately, that`s just not going
to work out for him.

Because as Pete pointed out, the image of what Donald Trump is on these
issues is seared into everyone`s brains.

And the people that he`s going to lose because they`re not suspicious of
whether or not he`s really committed to their cause are not going to be
equaled by the people that he`s going to gain because they are so appalled
at the type of behavior and rhetoric that has come out of his mouth for the
last year.

That you`re not going to flip it on this issue. So listen, he`s
schizophrenic on every issue; Second Amendment, issues of life, economy,
trade, he`s taken every side of every position.

Now he`s doing it on his number one position, the reason for his rationale,
how he opposed every one of his opponents in the primary.

It`s not going to work for him politically and you know, it`s not – it`s
not going to be embraced by people who have been championing reasonable
immigration policy for years.

O`DONNELL: Joy, Rory`s point is so important that Donald Trump is now –
his position on deportation is exactly what all Republicans, Jeb Bush –
it`s the Jeb Bush position.

REID: Correct.

O`DONNELL: It`s the George W. Bush position. And his appeal as he ignited
his campaign in the beginning was he dares to say the things –

REID: Right –

O`DONNELL: That these Bush types would never dare say, like I`m going to
deport them all.

REID: And remember one of the reasons that I was always dubious that Marco
Rubio had a chance of becoming the Republican presidential nominee is
because his position on immigration was the current Trump position.


REID: And because he`s taken the position that there could be some kind of
a compromise on immigration reform. If you look at the Republicans who
were ridiculed by Donald Trump for having the exact same position or even
for expressing compassion.

Remember, Jeb Bush had his wife ridiculed by Donald Trump because Columba
Bush is Mexican-American, saying well, that`s why you have compassion,
right? I mean, Donald Trump literally shredded them on this issue.

Now he has adopted the Jeb Bush position. I don`t know, I agree that he
does not necessarily have to justify that to his supporters because there
is a cult of personality aspect to the Donald Trump support along with the
hatred of Hillary Clinton.

But I think that it can`t stand up for long because he can`t – he and his
advisors can`t explain it. And they`re going to have –


REID: To keep explaining it when they go on television and when they do
media and they can`t. It just doesn`t hold up.

O`DONNELL: Peter –

WEHNER: Well, and I think – I think that`s exactly right, by the way,
Joy. Which is that he is going to start muddling this issue to the point
where nobody`s going to be able to recognize what his current position is,
which will give his supporters the permission that they`ve had on every
other issue to ignore what he`s currently saying.

And by the way, to another point that was raised, what are we not talking
about right now? We`re not talking about the Clinton Foundation, which
should have been his message all week this week with the news that`s coming
out about the conflicts of interest over there.

And instead what he`s doing is talking about using harsh rhetoric, talking
about the changes in his policy, rather than staying on a disciplined
message. You can have all the advisors in the world, you`re not going to
change who Donald Trump is.

O`DONNELL: And Peter, to hear Donald Trump and Kellyanne Conway use the
word “humane”, that of –


O`DONNELL: Course he was going to deal with this in a humane way.

WEHNER: Right –

O`DONNELL: His appeal when he started was specifically that he was not
going to be –

WEHNER: Exactly –

O`DONNELL: Even slightly humane about this.

WEHNER: That`s exactly right, and as a Republican and a conservative, I`ve
got to say it`s disturbing because that was what he ran against. He has
run the most inhumane campaign that is in my lifetime for sure, and that
maybe that we`ve ever seen.

And this idea that all of a sudden, he`s going to be humane after he said
he was going to take these people and throw them and their children out.
And not only said he would do it, but did it with such relish and did it
with such cruelty.

And a cruelty that has been really kind of the golden thread that has run
through the entire campaign with Trump has been that dehumanization and

So, this kind of flip-flopping, it makes him look unprincipled and it makes
him look cynical. It doesn`t make him look humane or – and it doesn`t
soften him. As I said, he`s going down and he`s a wreck and he`s wrecking
his party right along with it.

O`DONNELL: Peter Wehner and Rory Cooper, thank you both for joining us
tonight, really appreciate it.

COOPER: Thanks, Lawrence –

WEHNER: Thanks –

O`DONNELL: Our next guest – Joy, you know who my next guest is?

REID: I do.

O`DONNELL: It`s Glenn Beck, you`re going to stick around –

REID: Yes –

O`DONNELL: We`re going to talk about it later. Glenn Beck, who we`ve
wanted to have on the show for a while, and we actually did have booked
once before, but breaking news changed that whole night for us.

Glenn Beck will be our next guest. And there`s so much to talk about
including what Glenn Beck and I finally agree on.


O`DONNELL: So, today on his radio show, Glenn Beck got what he called
maybe the spookiest phone call he`s ever had on his radio show. You will
hear that call when Glenn Beck joins us next.


O`DONNELL: Our next guest, conservative radio and TV host Glenn Beck has
been against the Donald Trump presidential candidacy from the start, but
his audience has not.

Most conservative media audiences have been very supportive of Donald
Trump, which has led those conservative hosts like Rush Limbaugh and Sean
Hannity to abandon conservatism in favor of Trumpism.

They have followed their audience to supporting Trump, probably because of
the simple business reason that their income depends on the size of their
audience and they are not about to risk audience share by not giving their
audiences exactly what they want.

Others like Charlie Sykes and Glenn Beck have chosen to lead their
audiences. To try to lead them away from Trump and Trumpism. This has
brought new tension to conservative media and to Glenn Beck`s show.

This morning, Glenn Beck opened up his show to Trump supporters in his
audience with the promise that he would not argue with them, he simply
wanted to hear what they were thinking and why?

And that forum that he gave to Trump supporters produced what Glenn Beck
said was one of the spookiest calls he`s ever received. It was from Nate
in Virginia. Here is some of what Nate had to say to Glenn Beck.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As long as he does the basic things, or the
foundational things, which is build a wall, he`s not going to have people
like me coming after him because if he doesn`t –


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do what he said –

BECK: So, if he doesn`t build a wall – if he doesn`t build a wall like
China, then you`re – then he`s in trouble? It`s the wall that –


BECK: Is your line? OK –

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, he`s in so much trouble, you don`t even understand
the backlash of –

BECK: Oh, I think I do –

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Once we`re so frustrated and angry and tired of all the
political stuff, we`re going to come after him personally, you know what I
mean? We`re going to get him.

BECK: I don`t know what –

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don`t worry about –

BECK: You mean, hang on. What does that mean? Impeach him?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, the most peaceful way that you can get rid of
a president.

BECK: Is impeach him, right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir. He`s appealing to people who are very
frustrated and angry. Their frustration and anger can only be subsided if
he makes his promises true. And he has a lot on his shoulders. Maybe he
himself doesn`t even know how much.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But if he doesn`t come through for us, he`s going to
have bigger problems. Bigger problems than what you know.

BECK: OK, Nate, well, obviously, thank you for one of the spookiest phone
calls I think I`ve ever received.


O`DONNELL: Joining us now, Glenn Beck, founder of “Blaze Television
Network”, he is the author of the new book “Liars: How Progressives Exploit
Our Fears for Power and Control”.

And Glenn, I`m looking at the cover, and there`s a little – there are some
cards down here that show these progressives that we should be afraid of.
Teddy Roosevelt, Franklin Roosevelt, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Donald

And I guess, you know, a deck of cards is 52. So, I assume somewhere in
there is the O`Donnell card, somewhere, right, in the 52?


BECK: Yes, you`re some place in there –

O`DONNELL: I`ve got to be –

BECK: You`re some place in there –

O`DONNELL: I`ve got to be –

BECK: But I appreciate the fact that you noticed that there were two
Republicans in there, and I could have easily put several other including
Richard Nixon in there.

This is not a book that is – it`s actually in some ways a sympathetic look
at some of the people like Margaret Sanger as they tried to figure out what
caused her to believe the things that she did.

And I tried to find people`s pivot points in their life, from Hagel to
Margaret Sanger to LBJ. What made them into who they were, and found some
interesting stories. I actually think you would enjoy the book, Lawrence.

O`DONNELL: And you have Donald Trump as a progressive. Why do you see him
as a progressive?

BECK: Because I think he has socialist tendencies. He believes in big
government. I don`t think he`s – I don`t – he`s definitely not a
conservative. I don`t even like calling myself a conservative anymore
because I don`t even know what it means.

I`m a constitutionalist. And I believe in the adherence to the
constitution. I don`t think Donald Trump has even read the constitution,
knows what`s in the constitution or indeed like most progressives, I don`t
think he thinks it`s relevant anymore.

So, he is a guy who believes in at least double the amount of stimulus of
Hillary Clinton. He believes – he`s much farther down the road on
healthcare than Barack Obama was.

And I`m shocked at the number of conservatives, whatever that means, and
Republicans, whatever that means, that are fine with it coming.

It honestly makes – it makes people like me question everything that we
have said in the last ten years because perhaps it wasn`t about the
policies as I thought it was under Barack Obama.

Perhaps, it wasn`t about bigger and expanding government. Perhaps, it was
about the fact that, I don`t know, maybe that he was just a Democrat and
they`ll accept it from a Republican, but not from a Democrat.

I don`t care who it is. I think right is right and wrong is wrong. I`m a
constitutionalist, it`s not the way the country was founded and what we`re
all about.

And I`ll stand on those principles. Donald Trump doesn`t stand for any of
those principles, any of them.

O`DONNELL: So, tell us about your reaction. How did it feel in that phone
call? And I know you had many more phone calls from Trump supporters today.
But that one that you called –

BECK: Yes –

O`DONNELL: The spookiest. There was a turn in that call, we didn`t play
the whole thing. There was a turn in that call where it sounded like maybe
this caller was talking about physical violence against –

BECK: Oh, no –

O`DONNELL: Donald Trump, and you –

BECK: Oh, no –

O`DONNELL: You clarified with him that he didn`t mean that, but it`s still
wasn`t completely –

BECK: No –

O`DONNELL: Clear what he meant.

BECK: No, Larry, I think it was clear –


BECK: That that`s what he was talking about. Because he said the
impeachment, and I said, so, but wait a minute, you know, if that doesn`t
work or – and he said, well, he`ll have to know he`s picked and riled up
the most angry people in the country and we`ll deal with him.

Well, if impeachment isn`t – you know, that`s not – that has nothing to
do with anger. And what constitutional violation are you going to get him
on with impeachment if he doesn`t haul everybody out of the country?

That`s not going to work. And it was clear that he was saying you`re
messing with the wrong people. The interesting thing, and I`m going to do
a whole segment on a few of the phone calls that came in today on
tomorrow`s radio program.

And what I learned is, in three particular phone calls, each of them saying
something wildly different, that Donald Trump meant and then Donald Trump
is doing and who Donald Trump is.

The phone call after this guy, he was for sending everybody back in the
wall. The next guy said, “Oh, no. He`s been lying about that the whole
time. He`s just trying to win right now. And he was trying to get the
nomination.” He`s not going to do that and I would be really upset if he
did build the wall and do all these things.

They both – and another call a little while later, all of the people say,
Trump has his own language and you know, you have to really be listening to
him to understand what he`s saying. What`s happening here, I believe, is
Donald Trump is this empty vessel that the angry and disenfranchised are
saying, “A-ha, he`s like me.” I know what he`s saying.

I`ve never bought any of your B.S. quite honestly, if anybody on MSNBC
where they talk about dog whistles for the Tea Party. I thought that was
bull crap the whole time. This is a dog whistle. He is using dog whistles
and speaking to people but they`re hearing things. And whether he`s
meaning it or not, I don`t know. But people are hearing him say things and
each of them different. He is in massive, massive trouble. And more
importantly, we are if he is elected.

O`DONNELL: I want to see what your reaction is to this statement by Jorge
Ramos, who said, “It doesn`t matter who you are, a journalist, a
politician, or a voter. We`ll all be judged by how we responded to Donald

BECK: Oh, my gosh. Larry, I have to tell you. I am so shocked by the
number of people that are GOP, Conservatives, Tea Party members, people in
my own industry, people in our industry that have completely caved and
flipped and sold every principle out. And every morning, when we get
together as a team before I do my television and radio show, we meet and
every day it grows stronger. I believe – this is, you know, you know me.
I`m not one for subtlety.

I believe that Donald Trump has the real ability to be everything that I
was warning about when I was talking on Fox five years ago. I talked about
a pendulum swinging back the other way. And I know you guys were accusing
me of Father Coughlin.

I know who Father Coughlin is. I could have – if you would have asked me,
I would have told you why I wasn`t Father Coughlin. But I was warning my
own listeners and my viewers, beware, a Father Coughlin will come, whether
it`s the left or the right, I don`t know. And I spoke about the rise of
the right in Europe and the rise of the Nazi Party and then the ADL was
sick on me saying, “You can`t say Nazi`s.” And I`m like, “Well, they`re
coming in Europe.”

Nobody is paying attention at all about Alexander Dugin in Russia. Dugin
is supporting people like this and actually helping fund people like this.

And Larry, I encourage you and your listeners to go to YouTube, look for
Alexander Dugin. He`s one of the guys over in Moscow that is a big
supporter of Putin. He`s wildly influential. He`s crazier than Hitler.

In fact says, Hitler didn`t go far enough. He is – He did a YouTube on
Super Tuesday where he said, “Donald Trump is our guy.” He is frightening.
Donald Trump is frightening and we`d better stick together.

O`DONNELL: And quickly before you go, Glenn, I wanted to ask you about
Steve Bannon, who you know more about than I do. I didn`t know he existed
until last week when he emerged for the Trump Campaign. Can you just stay
for a break, Glenn, and we`re going to come back in just that one question
about Bannon and we`ll be done.

BECK: Sure. Sure, sure.

O`DONNELL: Thank you very much. We`ll take a quick break. We`ll be right

BECK: You bet.


O`DONNELL: We`re back with Glenn Beck. And Glenn I wanted to ask you
about Steve Bannon, the new CEO of the Trump Campaign because as I say, I
didn`t know anything about him until he emerged in the Trump Campaign. You
have said, “He is a horrible, despicable human being. What do we need to
know – what do I need to know about Steve Bannon that I don`t?”

BECK: He describes himself as a Leninist. And I was kind of hoping that
it was John Lennon. But it`s not. He is not a Marxist. He doesn`t
believe in Marxism or Socialism or Communism or anything else.

What he means by that, and he has explained it, is that he is a destroyer
of everything. He believes that Lenin was right, the way he went in,
destroyed the system, destroyed the Duma, brought down the parties, and
then punished his enemies.

Lawrence, I`m doing your show tonight because I am truly gravely concerned
about think direction of the country and I am – it is very important for
Conservatives or Constitutionalists to stand up and let the Left know,
“Hey, Guys. We`re not all like that and we have concerns and there has to
be some things that we can come together on and basic values and
principles, and let`s not go into a chaos theory. That never works out

This is why Alexander Dugin loves this guy. He runs the chaos party over
in Russia. He`s a dangerous man. Dangerous.

O`DONNELL: Glenn Beck, appreciate you joining us tonight. And Glenn, I
have read some of the book.

BECK: Thank you.

O`DONNELL: And you and I have some disagreements about Socialism that I`d
love to discuss with you some other time. Thank you very much.

BECK: I would love to do that.

O`DONNELL: Thank you very much for joining us.

BECK: Thank you Lawrence.

O`DONNELL: Really appreciate it.

BECK: You bet. You bet.

O`DONNELL: We`ll be right back.



DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE, 2016: Hillary Clinton is a bigot who
sees people of color only as votes, not as human beings worthy of a better
future. She`s going to do nothing for African-Americans. She`s going to
do nothing for the Hispanics. She doesn`t care what her policies have done
to your communities. She doesn`t care.


O`DONNELL: Tomorrow Donald Trump will start a series of what the campaign
calls outreach events beginning with a meeting here in New York with Black
and Latino Republican Activists. Joining us now, Clarence Page with the
Chicago Tribune. And back with us is Joy Reid. She`s the author of
“Fracture: Barack Obama, the Clintons and the Racial Divide.” Clarence
Page, I think you`ve known and seen a few bigots in your lifetime, and
there is Donald Trump calling Hillary Clinton, tonight, a bigot.

really a bit of originality on his part. Conservatives have been calling
Liberals racists and bigots for years. It`s always kind of a last-ditch
epithet to use when you can`t think of anything else to say.

But the fact is that – I`m glad Donald Trump is planning to talk to some
Blacks and Hispanics and not just talk about us but actually meet some and
talk about issues of concern to us. He has a lot to learn. Just like he
sounded quite surprised this week to learn that Barack Obama has been
sending thousands and thousands of immigrants back across the border. So
did President Bush before him.

This was old news I thought but it seems to be new news to Donald Trump.
He`s been building and preaching an agenda without knowing much about the
actual historical background or context of these issues and obviously,
still not offering any remedies. So, this should be an interesting
dialogue that he`s going to open up.

O`DONNELL: In Mississippi tonight, he tried to reach out to African-
American voters this way. Let`s listen to this.


TRUMP: The Democratic Party has failed and betrayed the African-American
community. It`s time to give the Democrats some competition for African-
American votes and for Hispanic votes. What do you have to lose by voting
for Donald Trump for President?


O`DONNELL: Joy, his – it seemed to work with his white Mississippi

actually first of all would like to say I`m really glad that I was able to
fight through the Hell`s Gate that is my black Brooklyn neighborhood to get
here to be here alive, to be on this the segment. But, you know, the way
that Donald Trump is talking about The African-American Community in a lot
of ways channels the very alt-right that he`s brought into his campaign.

This notion that people on that alt-right world believe that African-
Americans are in such horrible conditions or incapable of caring for their
own lives and who essentially are both villains and constant victims of the
Democratic Party. But here`s the thing, you just had Glenn Beck on before.

There are incredibly interesting coalitions being formed because of Donald
Trump`s campaign. One of them are people of the traditional conservative
right and people on the left who both see the same alarm bells going off
when they see Donald Trump. You know what`s not going to happen? A
coalition between a candidate who is embraced by essentially the Neo-Nazi
movement, the new Neo-Nazis, and Black people, that actually is not going
to happen.

O`DONNELL: Yes, yes. That`s a bit too far. Joy Reid and Clarence Page,
thank you both for joining us tonight, really appreciate it.

REID: Thank you.

PAGE: Thank you, Lawrence.

O`DONNELL: Coming up, we`ll hear what David Cay Johnston has to say about
Eric Trump continuing the lie that his daddy cannot release his tax returns
because of an audit.


O`DONNELL: Breaking news, its day two of the softening, and so Donald
Trump has now switch from deport them all, all 11 million to simply they
don`t get citizenship. Can stay here but no citizenship and Sean Hannity
is softening right beside Donald Trump tonight.



TRUMP: No Citizenship?

HANNITY: No citizen – did everyone agree with that? All right.

TRUMP: Let me go step further. They will pay back taxes. They have to
pay taxes. There`s no amnesty as such. There`s no amnesty.


O`DONNELL: Of course they`d already pay Social Security Taxes if they`re
on any payroll at all. And for most Americans, Social Security Taxes are
higher than income taxes. It`s very unlikely that the kinds of workers
we`re talking about would owe any back income taxes. That`s something
David Cay Johnston knows because he`s an expert on taxation. And he`s
going to talk once again about the Trump tax returns that we will never
see. And why Donald Trump`s son is lying when he says an audit prevents
his daddy from releasing his tax returns. It`s next.


O`DONNELL: The trump campaign continues to depend on the unproven idea
that Donald Trump is being audited as the reason why he is not releasing
his tax returns. No one in the media, and I mean no one, seems to
understand that there is absolutely no proof that Donald Trump is actually
being audited. And so, one of Donald Trump`s kids today was once again
allowed to lean on the mythological audit as the reason we will never see a
single page of a single Trump Tax Return.


ERIC TRUMP: There`s no responsible tax attorney who would ever say,
“Listen. Publish it.” By the way, his tax return, I`m not sure – did you
ever see the Twitter picture?


ERIC TRUMP: It`s extraordinary. It`s five feet tall. You would have a
bunch of people who know nothing about taxes trying to look through and
trying to come up with assumptions on things they know nothing about. It
would be foolish to do.

And honestly, I`m actually the biggest proponent of not doing it because
he`s under a standard audit. And you just don`t do that during that time.


O`DONNELL: Joining us now, David Cay Johnston, Pulitzer Prize-Winning
Journalist, columnist for the Daily Beast and the author of the new book,
“The Making of Donald Trump.” And David, we`re back to this lesson of
first of all, there`s no proof that there`s an audit.


O`DONNELL: And he would need to show us his audit letter from the IRS.
But even then, we wouldn`t know whether the IRS completed the audit
already. We would have no way of knowing. And yet the media allows the
Trump`s to just lean on this audit.

JOHNSTON: So here`s the question I want my peers to start asking Donald
Trump at every opportunity. Fine, where are your tax returns from 1978 to
2008, which by your own account are no longer under audit? What excuse
will he come up with for not releasing those returns? I`ll tell you what
it`s going to be, by the way.

Well, from those returns you could make some assumptions about what my
income is today because he has depreciating property and net loss – net
operating losses and other issues. But that should be the focus. Where
are your tax returns prior to the year 2009, especially the 1984 tax return
where I`ve shown from the public record, there`s very strong signs of fraud
in that tax return.

O`DONNELL: So, Eric Trump says that no tax attorney would allow him or
advise him to release any tax information. Of course Richard Nixon was
under an audit and his tax attorney said, “Here`s his tax return. They
showed it to us.”

We had on the show last night Fred Goldberg who is not just a tax attorney.
As you know, he was IRS Commissioner under the first President Bush. He
was IRS counsel also before that. Let`s listen to his idea. And he
proposes this idea, accepting the notion, the possibility that there is an
audit even with the audit, he makes this suggestion.


FRED GOLDBERG, AMERICAN TAX LAWYER: There is zero risk that releasing the
first two pages of his tax return plus the schedule A that shows charitable
contributions. That will have no impact whatsoever. And it tells the
American people what they have a right to know.


O`DONNELL: It would be great for Trump interviewers to start asking for
that, wouldn`t it, David?

JOHNSTON: Well, it would. I mean I want to see his whole return. But
what that is almost certainly going to show is that Donald`s adjusted gross
income. That`s the last line of the front page of your tax return, is
somewhere between less than $500,000 and negative.

And we really need to see his complete return. Now, by the way, most tax
lawyers have said that if when questioned on the record have said, there`s
no reason not to release the return. The few that have said don`t release
it have said they`re concerned that people, one of whom named me, would go
through the return and propose to the IRS areas they might not have
noticed in an audit.

That`s what Donald would be worried about, I think, is that other people
would say hey, look at this, you should be auditing this or that that you
may or may not be paying attention to.

O`DONNELL: David Cay Johnston, thank you very much for staying with us on
this tax return thing that so many people in the media are giving up on.
Thanks a lot, David.

JOHNSTON: Thank you.

O`DONNELL: We`ll be right back.



TRUMP: I`m going to appoint the toughest and smartest trade negotiators to
fight on behalf of American workers so that we make great trade deals with
other countries instead of incompetent and bad trade deals. We`ll bring
our jobs back here instead of having it – it`s like a one-way bridge. It
all goes out of this country. The only thing that comes into our country
is drugs.


O`DONNELL: Yes, that`s right. Drugs and Toyota`s and cheese and Trump
ties. I could go on and on. Donald Trump. Well, the only thing that
comes into this country is drugs. All of his clothes, the Trump clothes,
the suits, they`re made out of the country. They`re imported thanks to
Donald Trump.

That`s it. That is tonight`s “Last Word.” And tonight, instead of doing a
Facebook Live episode again, we`re going to do more live TV, another whole
hour of live TV starting right now.


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