The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell, Transcript 8/10/2016

Guests:
Matt Katz, Dan Rather, David Cay Johnston, Charlie Pierce. Ryan Solen, Rick Wilson, Karine Jean-Pierre
Transcript:

Show: THE LAST WORD WITH LAWRENCE O`DONNELL

Date: August 10, 2016

Guest: Matt Katz, Dan Rather, David Cay Johnston, Charlie Pierce. Ryan 

Solen, Rick Wilson, Karine Jean-Pierre

STEVE KORNACKI, MSNBC HOST:  All right, that`s going to do it for us 

tonight, we`ll see you – 

MATT KATZ, JOURNALIST:  A few weeks I think – 

KORNACKI:  All right, Matt Katz from WNYC, thanks for the time, I 

appreciate it.

KATZ:  Sure, Steve.  

KORNACKI:  All right, that`s going to do it for us tonight, we`ll see you 

again tomorrow, and now it`s time for THE LAST WORD with Lawrence 

O`Donnell.  Good evening to you, Lawrence.

LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC HOST:  Good evening Steve, you know, it always 

amazed me during the Chris Christie presidential campaign that so much of 

the media forgot what was happening back in New Jersey in this criminal 

case which still is going to involve Chris Christie as a witness probably.

KORNACKI:  Yes, always sensed that Republican voters knew at the back of 

their minds – 

O`DONNELL:  Yes, they did – 

KORNACKI:  That`s why you couldn`t get traction.

O`DONNELL:  Yes, that`s – you could see that in the polls – 

KORNACKI:  Yes – 

O`DONNELL:  That`s true.  Thank you, Steve.  

KORNACKI:  OK.

O`DONNELL:  Well, Donald Trump had the whole world thinking about 

assassination today, not just the United States, because Donald Trump`s 

words yesterday about the possible assassination of the next president of 

the United States brought painful memories rushing back.

Not just here in the United States, but in places where words like Donald 

Trump`s have really been words that killed. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE:  Hillary wants to abolish the 

Second Amendment. 

LESTER HOLT, NBC NEWS:  Trump sparked an uproar. 

TRUMP:  If she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks. 

HOLT:  With comments suggesting “Second Amendment people could act against 

Hillary Clinton.” 

TRUMP:  Although, the Second Amendment people – maybe there is, I don`t 

know. 

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE:  Words matter, my friends. 

TRUMP:  The media is almost as crooked as crooked Hillary Clinton. 

RUDY GUILIANI, FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR:  The liberal media is making it 

impossible for him to carry on a campaign. 

JOE SCARBOROUGH, MSNBC:  It was very painful watching Rudy Giuliani, a guy 

that I`ve respected for a very long time, do that routine. 

CLINTON:  Yesterday we witnessed the latest in a long line of casual 

comments from Donald Trump that crossed the line. 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  This was a joke that he made during a rally. 

REP. PAUL RYAN (R-WI), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE:  He should never joke about 

something like that. 

REP. PETER KING (R), NEW YORK:  It was wrong, he shouldn`t have said it. 

GOV. MIKE PENCE (R-IN), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE:  He misspeaks a lot. 

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  You don`t believe that he was inferring any violence 

relating to Hillary Clinton? 

PENCE:  Oh, of course not. 

TRUMP:  I mean, give me a break. 

CLINTON:  Friends, don`t let friends vote for Trump. 

(CHEERS)

TRUMP:  We have a small, a very small planet compared to the universe, 

right? 

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

O`DONNELL:  ”Though I am a murderer, I am not a liar.”  Those are the words 

of a self-confessed assassin.  He surrendered on the spot to police after 

putting two bullets in the back of his target. 

And the spot he surrendered on was a political rally.  And the spot where 

he was inspired to become an assassin was at another political rally.  A 

boisterous, combative political rally of the candidate who he, the 

assassin, supported. 

The assassin`s favorite candidate had many rallies where the opposing 

candidate was delegitimized and dehumanized, and instead of chants of “lock 

her up”, the crowd chanted “traitor” and “Nazi.” 

And were reminded of that today by “New York Times” non-partisan columnist 

Thomas Friedman, in his reaction to what Donald Trump said yesterday about 

Second Amendment people doing something to stop Hillary Clinton after she 

is elected president. 

Tom Friedman`s first sentence today was “and that, ladies and gentlemen, is 

how Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin got assassinated.” 

The current Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was Prime Minister 

Rabin`s opponent in that campaign. 

And the “Times” today described Netanyahu then as “addressing a feverish 

right-wing rally from a balcony in Jerusalem`s Zion Square as protesters 

below shouted for the death of Rabin the traitor.” 

Yitzhak Rabin was depicted in a Nazi uniform then, the worst conceivable 

depiction of a Jew anywhere, all because of this.  

Yitzhak Rabin had participated in negotiations with Palestinian leader 

Yasser Arafat, negotiations that were brokered by the President of the 

United States, Bill Clinton.

Yigal Amir, then a 25-year-old law student in Israel, thought Yitzhak 

Rabin`s dealings with the Palestinians was a crime against the Jewish 

people for which he, Yigal Amir, had the moral and in his view legal 

authority under religious Jewish law to execute capital punishment against 

the Prime Minister.

Yigal Amir believed that Prime Minister Rabin was putting the people of 

Israel at risk and had to be stopped.  

Donald Trump tells his followers that Hillary Clinton has already put the 

United States at risk through the nuclear deal with Iran and countless 

other ways.

Donald Trump`s version of calling Hillary Clinton a Nazi is to give her an 

imagined role in creating the Islamic State.  

In the feverish dementia of Trump world, President Obama and Secretary 

Clinton are the founding father and founding mother of the Islamic State.  

This is Donald Trump earlier tonight. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 

TRUMP:  ISIS is honoring President Obama.  He is the founder of ISIS, he is 

the founder of ISIS, OK?

(BOOING) 

He`s the founder.  He founded ISIS.  And I would say the co-founder would 

be crooked Hillary Clinton.  Co-founder, crooked Hillary Clinton. 

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

O`DONNELL:  As that audience knows, the United States military has executed 

by drone and otherwise every founding member of ISIS they`ve been able to 

find.  

If Donald Trump`s audience is as mentally unstable as he is, and if 

millions of them are as he would put it Second Amendment people, then 

Donald Trump is telling millions of Americans with guns that Hillary 

Clinton is one of the worst deadly enemies of the United States that we`ve 

ever had. 

For shots to be fired, all Donald Trump needs is one person who hears him, 

who believes him, who has access to guns, and who is as mentally unstable 

as Donald Trump is.  Just one. 

Out of millions of Trump supporters, Donald Trump and countless Republicans 

want Trump supporters and the rest of America to believe that Hillary 

Clinton already has blood on her hands because of the loss of four American 

lives in Benghazi including Hillary Clinton`s friend, Ambassador Chris 

Stevens. 

Hillary Clinton is now a convicted criminal, convicted in the court of 

Trump, convicted by Trump at Trump rallies with Trump juries.  The chant is 

not “indict her.”  The chant is “lock her up.” 

The chant says we don`t care that FBI agents and prosecutors have looked at 

Hillary Clinton`s State Department e-mail arrangement and not been able to 

find a criminally prosecutable offense that they believe they could get a 

conviction on. 

The chant says we don`t care about guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.  The 

chant does not say charge her with a crime, put her on trial.  The chant 

jumps past all of that and says “lock her up.”  And every once in a while, 

there`s someone at a Trump rally who says “kill her.” 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Hang the bitch. 

(CROSSTALK) 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL:  Israeli columnist Chemi Shalev wrote, “like the extreme right 

in Israel, many Republicans conveniently ignore the fact that words can 

kill.  

If anyone has doubts, they could use a short session with Yigal Amir; 

Yitzhak Rabin`s assassin, who was inspired by the rabid rhetoric hurled at 

the Israeli Prime Minister.” 

Yigal Amir was despised by most Israelis after the assassination, but not 

all.  He had his supporters who believed that he did the right thing for 

Israel.  

The most important thing to Yigal Amir after he assassinated Yitzhak Rabin 

was that he did not want anyone to think he was crazy. 

He wanted everyone to know he thought carefully about firing two hollow-

point bullets into Yitzhak Rabin`s back and that he had done it for good 

reason because he was protecting the people of Israel from a Nazi.

He was protecting the people of Israel from a traitor, an enemy of Israel.  

He was saving Israel from Yitzhak Rabin.  He was doing what Donald Trump 

says he has to do – save America from Hillary Clinton. 

Yigal Amir told Israeli police, “I am at peace.  I did what many people 

wanted to do.  I am totally normal.  I do not want people to think that I 

am crazy, otherwise, I will not achieve my goal.” 

The question for America tonight, and the urgent question for the Secret 

Service tonight, which issued a worried statement about Donald Trump, about 

what Donald Trump said yesterday, is how many Yigal Amirs are there here? 

Who believe every word that Donald Trump says about Hillary Clinton.  Who 

believe when Donald Trump calls Hillary Clinton a monster that she is a 

monster.  Who believe when Donald Trump calls Hillary Clinton a devil, that 

she is the devil. 

Those are his words.  And that the devil must be stopped.  How many believe 

that? In this country of hundreds of millions of guns and millions of 

Donald Trump supporters, millions of Hillary Clinton haters. 

What are the chances that Donald Trump`s feverish out of control language 

can stir up the passions of a Donald Trump fanatic who hates Hillary 

Clinton and has a gun?

It only takes one.  One Trump supporter, that`s all it takes.  Rudy 

Giuliani seems to think the Trump rallies are filled with potential 

assassins.  

This morning, he insisted that Donald Trump did not in any way imply that 

Hillary Clinton should or could be assassinated, and then he said this. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 

GIULIANI:  With a crowd like that, if that`s what they thought he meant, 

they`d have gone wild. 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL:  So there`s Rudy Giuliani saying Donald Trump`s crowd would have 

gone wild if he had even more directly suggested the assassination of 

Hillary Clinton.  The crowd would have gone wild. 

And it only takes one to go really wild.  Joining us now is Dan Rather, 

former anchor of the “Cbs Evening News”, he is currently host of “AXS TV`s” 

“The Big Interview”. 

Dan, when we`re reaching for historical precedent and in big historical 

moments like this, we turn to you.  You were there in Dallas on November 

22nd, 1963.  You saw what this country went through in a presidential 

assassination. 

That anyone near our politics could have said anything like what Donald 

Trump said, leaves us all reeling.  But for you, with your experience, it 

must have been something truly unique. 

DAN RATHER, AXS TV:  Well, yes, it reminds me that, you know, history is 

watching and history will judge.  Not just what Donald Trump says but what 

the American people decided, how we settle this election campaign. 

But beginning in my adult lifetime with the assassination of President John 

F. Kennedy, we followed with the assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King 

and with a lot of exploitive and incendiary language used against Dr. King.

And again, it only took one – 

O`DONNELL:  Yes – 

RATHER:  You know, with Robert Kennedy who was a candidate for president, 

let us not forget in 1968 was assassinated, it only took one. 

You respond saying that, you know, this is not just another sort of wild 

Donald Trump statement.  This is serious.  Because the rhetoric is the 

candidate. 

It`s no good saying, well, he doesn`t mean these things or he doesn`t think 

these things through or it`s a joke, which by the way I take special 

resentment to this as a joke. 

This is not a joking matter.  And I never thought that having gone through, 

say, a lot of assassinations, by the way, there was an attempt on 

presidential candidate George Wallace`s life in the early 1970s as well. 

Attempt on Gerald Ford`s life, I mean, Ronald – 

O`DONNELL:  Ronald Reagan – 

RATHER:  Reagan very nearly died from only one assassin. 

O`DONNELL:  And all mentally unstable people.  It`s not –  

RATHER:  Yes –  

O`DONNELL:  That`s who`s out there.  That`s who`s vulnerable to this. 

RATHER:  Exactly.  And among the side effects of what Donald Trump did by, 

you know, wink.  Well, Second Amendment people may have to take care of 

Hillary Clinton, paraphrase of it. 

A side effect of it is that I grew up in Texas, I grew up in a gun culture, 

I know a lot of people who are strong for the Second Amendment.  

And what Donald Trump did was he undercut a lot of decent, intending 

citizens who own guns to make it so that it plays into the stereotype that 

every one of them is a gun-crazy nut job just looking for a target. 

Which is not the case.  But set that aside at the moment because the 

(INAUDIBLE) of this story has to be, is this – is this or is this not 

acceptable conduct for a major party candidate for president of the United 

States.

I think the obvious answer, not a matter of opinion, the obvious answer is 

absolutely not.  That`s not – that`s just not who we are as a people.  

This is not what we`re about as a society, as a country.

And we`ll see how this all plays out.  You know, I`ve said to you before, I 

think Donald Trump can win the election.  

I think his chances are less now than they were maybe two weeks go before 

the Khan sordid business and the gun business.

But it would be a mistake to think that the potential is not still there 

for him to get elected, to beat Hillary Clinton.  

A lot of unexpected things can happen along the way.  But I have enough 

confidence in the American public. 

You know, the American people are civil, decent people.  Yes, they 

sometimes feel strongly about their politics or their ideology.  

But this kind of uncivil, indecent, offensive and I agree with what one 

newspaper today said, with the gun statements.

Donald Trump moved from being offensive to being reckless.  And you can`t 

abide this kind of recklessness in a presidential campaign.  I don`t care 

what you call yourself, progressive, conservative, Republican or Democrat. 

O`DONNELL:  The – of course, Donald Trump denies that it was a joke.  But 

what he does is he denies that he said what he said.  Let`s listen to his 

explanation tonight on “Fox News”. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 

TRUMP:  What we`re talking about is political power.  There`s tremendous 

political power to save the Second Amendment.  Tremendous.  

And you look at – you know, you look at the power they have in terms of 

votes and that`s what I was referring to, obviously that`s what I was 

referring to, and everybody knows it.

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

O`DONNELL:  So, Dan, he goes on “Fox News” and he just lies about what he 

said.  That`s not what he said.  And Greta Van Susteren, no one at “Fox 

News” argues with him about that. 

What is the – what is the right way for an interviewer to handle someone 

who`s just going to lie about what he said yesterday? 

RATHER:  Well, the way to do it is to ask him a direct question and insist 

on a direct answer and to keep following up on the question. 

O`DONNELL:  Yes – 

RATHER:  Very few people in television, and I fault myself some of the time 

to it.  You may ask the tough question.  

The interview subject does the old political side shuffle, which is what 

Donald Trump is attempting to do here, and you move on. 

It takes a kind of bore in, keep asking the question, if it takes asking it 

10, 12 times, ask it 10, 12 times until and unless it`s clear that the 

candidate is not going to answer the question or fesses up that he has said 

a lie.

And by the way, that`s the operative word sometimes, I think – 

O`DONNELL:  Yes – 

RATHER:  Many of us in television are too reluctant to use the word lie.  

We say, well, misspoke himself or dealt in ambiguity. 

But you know, again, Lawrence, I`ll come back to, I think I have great 

confidence in the American people as a whole of being able to separate bull 

shine from brass tacks. 

And when Donald Trump said what he said about guns, people got it.  They 

know what he meant.  They also know it wasn`t a joke.  And no amount of 

backfilling and side-stepping is going to change that. 

Now, one could hope and pray that Donald Trump will completely reboot his 

campaign and stop saying these offensive and now reckless things.  But I 

don`t think that you`re going to bet the rent money on that. 

O`DONNELL:  Dan, thank you very much for joining us tonight.  I want to see 

Donald Trump do the Dan Rather interview.  That`s the one that I`m waiting 

for.  Thank you very much, Dan. 

RATHER:  Thank you very much, Lawrence. 

O`DONNELL:  Coming up, Donald Trump under oath.  How many times do you 

think Donald Trump got caught lying when he was put under oath? 

And Paul Ryan still won`t comment on Donald Trump`s comments that he last 

night pretended he hadn`t heard about the Second Amendment people and 

Hillary Clinton.  

The Democrat running against Paul Ryan, trying to make history by unseating 

the speaker of the house will join us tonight for his first national 

interview. 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) 

O`DONNELL:  Here`s a look at how protesters were treated tonight at a 

Donald Trump rally in Florida. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 

(CHEERS)

TRUMP:  We`ve got every group imaginable.  I think we have the smartest 

people.  I think we have among the most successful people. 

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

O`DONNELL:  Oh, yes, the smartest people and most successful people.  How 

many times do you think Donald Trump lied – oh, not lied, got caught lying 

once he was put under oath about his lies? Tweet us your answers. 

The answer is coming up next. 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  He is not a politician.  He is not a person like you 

who`s very articulate, very well spoken.  He`s a business person. 

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

O`DONNELL:  You cannot say that a candidate running for president is not a 

politician.  You can say that he`s a rookie politician.  You can say he`s 

only been a politician for about a year. 

But you cannot defend a politician by saying he`s not a politician.  But 

that defense of Donald Trump will never die.  

Even after he won 36 primaries as a politician.  Even after his name will 

be on the ballot in 50 states as the Republican candidate for president. 

He`s not a politician.  That`s the defender`s official line.  And that line 

allows them, they think, to defend any lie that Donald Trump tells.  And it 

allows them to pretend that lies are not lies. 

The one place in Donald Trump`s life where he hasn`t been able to get away 

with lying is when he is under oath in litigation.  

Donald Trump made the breathtakingly stupid mistake of suing Tim O`Brien, a 

“New York Times” reporter who wrote a book about him. 

And in that book said that Donald Trump lied about a lot of things, 

including his wealth.  O`Brien estimated that Donald Trump`s wealth is 

between $150 million and $250 million. 

Nowhere near a billionaire.  Donald Trump lost the lawsuit but left behind 

a 170-page under oath deposition in which he has – was at several points 

forced to admit several lies that he told in public as part of his routine. 

Donald Trump was being questioned by highly experienced former federal 

prosecutors who were then in private practice representing the publisher at 

no expense to the author. 

How many times did they catch Donald Trump lying when they put him under 

oath? Thirty.  They caught Donald Trump in 30 lies.  

And when he was caught lying, he said under oath in the deposition, “I am 

no different from a politician running for office.  You always want to put 

your best foot forward.” 

So much for Donald Trump not being a politician.  Joining us now, David Cay 

Johnston, Pulitzer prize-winning journalist and columnist with the “Daily 

Beast”. 

He has a new book out, “The Making of Donald Trump”.  And also with us, 

Charlie Pierce; writer-at-large for “Esquire”.  David Cay, you`ve been 

studying a lot of this territory that Tim O`Brien studied. 

You`ve gone over more than once.  This is your latest volume, I always have 

it with me now, “The Making of Donald Trump”.  This deposition is 

invaluable because it has Donald Trump under oath. 

He knows that if he lies in the deposition he faces perjury charges.  And 

so what they present to him is a bunch of public lies that he has rattled 

off, and they force him under oath to admit that he was lying when he said 

those things publicly. 

What are some of the gems in there? 

DAVID CAY JOHNSTON, COLUMNIST, DAILY BEAST:  Well, my favorites out of that 

deposition are frankly about how he`s lied about his wealth.  He`s asked 

about how do you determine your net worth? And while this isn`t quite a lie 

in the way you`re talking about it.

He says, well, my feelings, and he goes on at some length that his feelings 

and what`s happening that day and his mood, that determines his net worth.  

And he`s suing Tim O`Brien over an issue of net worth, and it`s what he 

feels like? 

Hey, you know what? This has been a good day, Lawrence, I think I am worth 

a billion dollars today, how about you? 

O`DONNELL:  Yes, he publicly was very definitive about one thing in his 

life that he never did.  He said he never, ever borrowed money from his 

father`s estate, never, absolute zero. 

Under oath he said, “I think a small amount a long time ago.  I think it 

was in the $9 million range.”  So, Charlie Pierce, out there to the public, 

zero, never borrowed a penny from my old man, under oath only $9 million. 

CHARLIE PIERCE, WRITER-AT-LARGE, ESQUIRE:  It`s amazing what the effect of 

putting your hand on a Bible, when that Bible is backed up by a prison cell 

will do for a fella.  Yes, you fastened, Lawrence, on one of my pet peeves, 

which is any politician who runs for office claiming not to be a 

politician. 

But even taking him at his word, ever since he ran his mouth about the 

Second Amendment people the other day, I`ve talked to dozens of people, 

none of whom are politicians, and none of them would have said that. 

O`DONNELL:  Yes, exactly, and now to go – going to the lying point.  

Donald Trump is now lying about what he said yesterday.  

He could have used the insanity defense.  We all would have accepted that.  

He could have said it was a joke like Paul Ryan did, OK?

Very bad joke if it`s a joke.  But instead, he says, I didn`t say what you 

heard me say.  And let`s listen to one of the Trump audience members who`s 

now become famous because he`s the red shirt guy who we all saw behind 

Donald Trump. 

Let`s listen to the way he interpreted what Donald Trump said. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  I was thinking exactly what I said to my neighbor, 

Connie(ph), and that was, I can`t believe he said it.  The media will have 

a field day with this one.  Down here in the south, we don`t curse in front 

of women. 

We don`t drink liquor in front of a preacher, and we don`t make jokes like 

that in public.  But it was clear to my mind and to the people around me 

that he was trying to make a joke. 

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

O`DONNELL:  So, David, he sees it as a joke, but he also doesn`t in any way 

confuse what Donald Trump was actually saying. 

JOHNSTON:  But Lawrence, he was obviously a plant paid to be there by the 

Hillary Clinton campaign. 

(LAUGHTER)

He`s now – 

O`DONNELL:  Trump supporter – 

JOHNSTON:  You know – 

O`DONNELL:  True blue, a true red Trump supporter – 

JOHNSTON:  Right – 

O`DONNELL:  Yes –    

JOHNSTON:  We`re joking about this, but listen, Donald`s lies have led to 

violence.  Not just the violence he`s called for and then denied.  

But one of the Upstate New York newspapers say, has a story about a guy 

wearing a Trump shirt who was beaten and attacked.

He is unleashing terrible forces in this country, and it`s going to get 

worse.  And let`s assume the media suddenly says we`re not going to cover 

these things.  That won`t have any effect here. 

He has now let the dogs loose.  And there is going to be trouble down the 

road.  And I don`t know what you do to stop this once you have done what 

Donald has done.  Which is signal to people that it`s OK to carry out a 

crime that Donald wouldn`t himself do.

He wants you to do for his benefit. 

O`DONNELL:  Charlie – 

PIERCE:  Yes, Lawrence – 

O`DONNELL:  Donald Trump used to primarily avoid any interview on Prime 

Time here on Msnbc, he`s never done it.  But he`s now limiting himself 

almost exclusively to “Fox News”, where it`s going to be all softball. 

And Greta Van Susteren have the softballs in her hand tonight.  She allowed 

Donald Trump to tell the lie about what he said yesterday with absolutely 

no come-back from Greta Van Susteren at all. 

PIERCE:  Yes, I think by November, he`s going to be appearing exclusively 

on Ham radio sets in upper Michigan.

O`DONNELL:  Yes – 

PIERCE:  Which will be – which will be all right because we`ll all be able 

to hear him in our teeth. 

O`DONNELL:  Yes – 

PIERCE:  No, I think David came to a very good point there, and I sensed 

this actually in 2012.  And it goes back further than that.  It certainly 

goes back to the first inauguration of this – of this particular 

president. 

There`s a wildness and an untamed element to American conservative politics 

that`s gotten worse over the last 20 years.  

And it`s sort of like this free-floating dark energy that`s been looking 

for a focus, a focal point over the last two or three cycles.  And boy, it 

found one this time.  

O`DONNELL:  David – 

PIERCE:  Indeed, I mean, I`ll tell you what.  It – I went to a Donald 

Trump rally, the first one I ever went to in Lowell, Massachusetts almost a 

year ago. 

And it was flat terrifying, it really was. 

O`DONNELL:  David Cay Johnston and Charlie Pierce, thank you both for 

joining us tonight, I appreciate it. 

PIERCE:  Thank you.  

O`DONNELL:  Coming up, when was the last time the speaker of the house lost 

his own congressional re-election in his own district? I can remember it 

vividly as if it was yesterday.  So, it`s not 200 years ago.  The man 

trying to repeat history is now running against Paul Ryan, and he will join 

us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL:  It`s only happened once.  Well, it`s happened more than once.  

But only once in the 20th century, only once in modern American history has 

the speaker of the house been defeated in his re-election campaign in his 

home district.  

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM BROKAW, NBC NEWS ANCHOR:  For the leading congressional Democrat it was 

insult added to injury.  Tom Foley not only lost his job as House speaker, 

he lost his congressional seat as well, conceding this afternoon.  

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL:  Joining us now for his first national interview, the man who 

wants to pull off that miracle once again, Ryan Solen, winner of the 

Democratic primary in Wisconsin, who now has the honor of running against 

House Speaker Paul Ryan in the general election.  

Mr. Solen, thank you very much for joining us tonight.  

RYAN SOLEN (D-WI), CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE:  Thank you for the opportunity.  

I appreciate it.  

O`DONNELL:  What is your pitch to voters in that district, why they should 

get rid of the most powerful member of Congress representing them now?  

SOLEN:  The idea behind it all is that Paul Ryan has been ineffective 

speaker of the house at this point.  He`s had an awful lot of opportunity.  

He`s been in office for a long time.  And he just has not been as effective 

as he should be.  

We are trying to make progress on an awful lot of issues, and so far, it`s 

just been gridlock.  And being the ranking member of the Republican Party, 

he should be doing more.  

O`DONNELL:  It`s really quite striking that as speaker, he`s the leader of 

a party whose mission is to actually do nothing.  They don`t want to pass 

appropriations bills.  They don`t want government spending going out there 

into these districts.  

So, historically, speakers have been really big benefactors to their own 

district, and he leads a party that is basically opposed to delivering 

anything to anyone.  

SOLEN:  Yes, you are correct in that assessment.  I think we`ve been 

waiting for a while.  We`ve gone through a really rough time as far as 

economics have gone.  I know there have been claims that the economy is 

bouncing back.  You could take the Dow Jones and use that as an estimate.  

But the fact of the matter is the people themselves I don`t think are 

feeling that.  They`re still looking for more.  

O`DONNELL:  Let`s listen to what Paul Ryan said last night in defense of 

Donald Trump.  

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PAUL RYAN (R-WI), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE:  I heard about the Second 

Amendment quote.  It sounds like just a joke gone bad.  You should never 

joke about something like that.  I didn`t actually hear the comments.  I 

only heard about those comments.  

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL:  What was your reaction to that?  

SOLEN:  Well, my first reaction would be to Donald Trump.  I really am 

trying to figure out what his end game is here, you know?  I don`t think 

that that`s appropriate, to even be joking about, for an office that he`s 

aspiring to, it`s totally inappropriate.  

And for the speaker of the House to say it was just a joke gone bad I think 

that needs to be retracted.  

O`DONNELL:  What is ahead for you in this campaign?  Do you think there 

will be a debate in this campaign against Paul Ryan?  

SOLEN:  I certainly hope so.  We`ve actually contacted the Paul Ryan 

campaign and have asked for a debate.  So far, we have not heard anything 

back.  But I`m hoping that we will have one soon.  

O`DONNELL:  Do you have any disagreements with Hillary Clinton in terms of 

her platform and the programs that she wants to advance through Congress?  

SOLEN:  Right now, I think that she`s got a very solid platform.  I know 

she said she`s going to adopt some of Bernie Sanders` additional issue 

items, and I think that`s going to go a long way toward healing the 

apparent rift that occurred earlier on.  I really think that she`s got 

great chances and good opportunities to make a difference in the country.  

O`DONNELL:  Ryan Solen, thank you very much for joining us tonight.  I 

really appreciate it.  

SOLEN:  Thank you.  I appreciate it.  

O`DONNELL:  Coming up, there is a new candidate for president.  He`s a 

Republican.  He`s a Mormon.  No one`s ever heard of him, which is the down 

side.  But those two other factors, Republican and Mormon, means that 

Donald Trump is in more trouble than he already was in Utah.  Hillary 

Clinton might be the first Democrat to win Utah since 1964.  

And Hillary Clinton has more Republican states leaning her way now.  All of 

that is in tonight`s campaign war room.  

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER:  This is THE LAST WORD on campaign 2016.  

O`DONNELL:  Forty-two years ago this week, our politics and our government 

went through something that it`s never gone through before and may never go 

through again.  A crisis like we have never seen, a crisis that has lessons 

for the age of Trump.  

But first, here`s how it looked today on the campaign trail.  

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE:  This is not a normal election.  

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE:  Hillary will be a horror show.  

And I`m going to be an unbelievable positive.  

CLINTON:  In the first 100 days of my administration, we will make the 

biggest investment in new jobs, good-paying jobs since World War II.  

TRUMP:  Take a look at the promises she made as a senator from New York and 

the job she was going to create.  Take a look at what happened.  It is a 

wasteland, what`s happened up there.  

CLINTON:  I believe in small business.  That`s why I want to be a small 

business president.  And that`s a big contrast with Donald Trump who has 

spent his career stiffing small businesses.  

TRUMP:  Look at the bad decisions that she`s made.  

GOV. MIKE PENCE (R-IN), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE:  More e-mails have come 

to light today that seemed to provide direct evidence that favors were done 

by State Department officials for foreign donors to the Clinton Foundation.  

That`s the old pay-to-play system the American people are sick and tired 

of, and Donald Trump and I are going to bring it to a crashing end.  

TRUMP:  Look at the bad judgment.  And now we`re going to put her in charge 

of our country?  We won`t have a country left.  

CLINTON:  Trump`s belief that he alone can fix America`s problems is so 

contrary to who we are as a nation.  

TRUMP:  Politicians will tell me, you can`t build a wall.  Really?  You can 

build a wall?  

They don`t know.  You know, I`ve built 90-story buildings.  Building 

buildings is tough.  Building a wall, boy, is that easy.  

CLINTON:  I am humbled and moved by the Republicans who are willing to 

stand up and say Donald Trump doesn`t represent their values.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL:  What did you have for lunch today?  Was it better than this?  

That lunch was ordered by a guy who could have had anything he wanted, the 

president of the United States.  And it was his last lunch in the White 

House.  He obviously didn`t have the stomach for much that day.  

Richard Nixon`s last days and nights in the White House were a nightmare 

while an impeachment investigation was closing in on him in the Congress.  

The day before his last lunch, he had a final meeting with his cabinet, 

pictured here.  He insisted to them then that he would not resign.  And 

three days later, on August 9th, 1974, Richard Nixon resigned and waved 

good-bye to Washington forever as he boarded a helicopter on the White 

House lawn.  

Several months before that, Richard Nixon defended himself this way.  

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD NIXON, FORMER PRESIDENT:  Let me just say this.  And I want to say 

this to the television audience.  I made my mistakes.  But in all of my 

years of public life, I have never profited, never profited from public 

service.  I`ve earned every cent.  And in all of my years of public life, I 

have never obstructed justice.  

And I think too that I can say that in my years of public life, that I 

welcome this kind of examination because people have got to know whether or 

not their president is a crook.  Well, I`m not a crook.  I`ve earned 

everything I`ve got.  

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL:  It was a stunning word choice for the president.  Crook.  ”I`m 

not a crook.”  And anyone who heard that never forgot it.  

In those days, as suspicious as everyone had the right to be about 

criminality in the Nixon White House, we lived in a pre-Trumpian world of 

politics in which none of Richard Nixon`s opponents in Congress had called 

him a crook.  Richard Nixon is the first elected official to use the word 

“crook” in relation to Richard Nixon.  

Throughout that crisis in the White House, civility prevailed in Washington 

even though crimes were committed.  Prior to Donald Trump, American 

politics was capable of dealing with terrible things, with criminal conduct 

in the White House, with a presidential resignation – and doing it without 

the political leaders of either party name-calling or suggesting that the 

solution to the problem maybe should be left to Second Amendment people.  

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP:  Hillary wants to abolish, essentially abolish the Second Amendment.  

By the way, if she gets to pick –  

(BOOS)

If she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks.  Although the 

Second Amendment people, maybe there is.  I don`t know.   

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL:  Time for tonight`s “War Room”. 

Hillary Clinton is reaching out to voters in a state that has not been won 

by a Democrat in 52 years, Utah.  A new poll of Utah voters shows Donald 

Trump at 37, Hillary Clinton at 25, Gary Johnson at 16.  That`s high for 

him.  Jill Stein at 1.  Anti-Trump candidate Evan McMullin, who was born in 

Utah, also hopes to appear on the Utah ballot now as a presidential line.  

He could take votes from Donald Trump.  

Here`s what he said on “MORNING JOE” earlier this week.  

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EVAN MCMULLIN (I), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE:  As a former CIA officer, I 

deeply believe that Donald Trump harms the strength and prosperity of this 

country.  Donald seeks to divide us.  He seeks to pit us against each other 

one race and religion against the other.  This is the work of our 

adversaries.  This is the work of Vladimir Putin.  And as I say, it is the 

work of Donald Trump.  

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL:  With 89 days left for the campaign war rooms, joining us 

tonight on THE LAST WORD “War Room” are Rick Wilson, a Republican 

strategist helping Evan McMullin in that campaign.  Also with us, Karine 

Jean-Pierre, a veteran of President Obama`s and Martin O`Malley`s 

presidential war rooms.

So, Rick, you`ve got a foot back in the war room in this campaign.  

So, just a little by bio stuff on Evan McMullin.  He is Mormon.  He is from 

Utah.  He worked on the Hill for a while for Republicans, worked in the CIA 

before that.  It looks like he can get on the Utah ballot because you`ve 

got to do it by August 15th.  It`s only 1,000 signatures.  

But a lot of deadlines are going to be impossible for him in a bunch of 

states.  How many ballots do you think he can get on?  

RICK WILSON, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST:  We`ve got a strategy for very wide 

ballot access, Lawrence.  And even in some of the states where the 

deadlines have passed, we have a ballot strategy to engage with minor party 

ballot access in those states, and with appeals to some of those deadlines 

in those states.  

And if that fails, we feel like we`ve got a very good litigation case to 

make, to open up access, including some of the noted legal scholars in the 

country who said that a lot of these things have simply been untested and 

we`re about to go test them.  But we`ve got a team of junkyard dog lawyers 

and a campaign expert who are going to go out in these states, in the 

states where we still have time we`re going to be out there doing the 

petition route.  We`re going to be getting out in those states.  We`re 

going to be doing the third party ballot route.  We`ve got a few other 

tricks up our sleeve in that regard as well.  

O`DONNELL:  Karine, so here we have the alternative on the ballot for 

Republicans in Utah.  Gary Johnson`s doing – outperforming his national 

numbers in Utah.  Now we have Evan McMullin coming along.  Presumably, they 

will take votes away from Donald Trump.  And, by the way, Hillary Clinton 

is an alternative to Donald Trump for a bunch of Republicans in Utah too.  

Interviews in the “New York Times” today saying that they will vote for 

Hillary Clinton to very specifically prevent Trump from becoming president.  

This is a state that the Clinton campaign is now taking very seriously.  

KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, FORMER MARTIN O`MALLEY ADVISOR:  Yes, which I think is 

a very smart strategy.  We saw that they did an op-ed.  Hillary Clinton did 

an op-ed in one of the local papers out in Utah.  

And look, Donald Trump is running one of the most offensive, divisive 

campaigns of all time.  So, it`s not surprising that she`s appealing to 

disaffected Republican voters, independent voters, which is like I said a 

very smart strategy.  

Look, at the end of the day this game is going to be won on the ground.  

You`ve got to get 270 electoral colleges.  And you know, because of this 

hate-filled campaign that Donald Trump is running, the Democrats actually 

have a clearer path to getting 270.  But not only that, they could expand 

the electorate as well.  

O`DONNELL:  Let`s listen to what Donald Trump said about Mitt Romney, who 

is one of the great admired political figures in Utah.  Let`s listen to 

this.  

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP:  For a guy that really let us down, this poor Mitt Romney, it`s sad, 

he`s going around saying oh, oh –  

(BOOS)

He`s a sad case.  He choked.  You know what I choke artist is?  Right?  

You know what a choke artist – you know when a guy misses the kick you get 

rid of him.  You bring another one in, right?  Because you don`t want that 

thought going in his head too much.  He choked.  

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL:  Rick Wilson, it seems to me the only strategy for Donald Trump 

to try to win Utah is to stay out of Utah and not let them hear his voice 

and just hope that the word “Republican” beside his name gets him the win 

there.  

WILSON:  Lawrence, that`s increasingly true everywhere in the country.  I 

mean, if you`re sitting in the Donald Trump war room, which I think 

basically is his Twitter account, and you`re looking at the map right now -

O`DONNELL:  It`s a guy in pajamas with ice cream and a Twitter machine.  

WILSON:  Pretty much.  You`d be feeling a lot of depression if you were 

Donald Trump because he`s being soundly rejected by the American people 

across the board.  That`s why Evan thinks he`s got a moment here that Utah 

and beyond, where we can offer people a different alternative to the Trump 

disaster and frankly a different alternative to Hillary Clinton as well.  

We`ll see how we do.  But we feel like there`s a moment here.  

O`DONNELL:  Karine, the Clinton campaign has to decide where it`s going to 

seriously invest resources hoping for a win.  And then there`s another 

decision to make.  Where are they going to put in some resources hoping to 

force Donald Trump to spend some time there and take Donald Trump away from 

more important states where he should be campaigning?  

JEAN-PIERRE:  Well, what`s very interesting that`s happening is there are 

states that have been heavily Republican for some time now that are 

potentially possibly in play.  It looks like Arizona, which is heavily 

Latino, Latino population.  Georgia, which has a large African-American 

population.  And North Carolina, which President Obama won in 2008 but lost 

in 2012.  And remember, the first stop that he made, the first campaign 

stop that he made for Hillary Clinton was in charlotte, North Carolina.  

So there are definitely opportunities there for the Hillary campaign to 

kind of focus on, to make the Trump campaign focus in on more.  

O`DONNELL:  Karine Jean-Pierre and Rick Wilson, thank you both for joining 

us tonight.  

JEAN-PIERRE:  Thank you.  

WILSON:  Thanks, Lawrence.  

O`DONNELL:  We`ll be right back with the last word.  

(COMMERCIOAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP:  Oh, and by the way, they said my wife Melania might have come in 

illegally.  Can you believe that one?  No, no, no.  They said, headlines, 

maybe she came in illegally.  Maybe.  

Let me tell you one thing.  She has got it so documented.  So, she`s going 

to have a little news conference over the next couple of weeks.  That`s 

going to – I love it.  I love it.  

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL:  Prediction.  Melania Trump will never have the news conference 

that Donald Trump just promised she would have.  And we will be cataloging 

one more lie in the Trump campaign when that doesn`t happen as we expect it 

not to happen.  

That`s THE LAST WORD for tonight.  

Our live coverage continues now with Chris Hayes.  He`s going to take us to 

midnight.  

Hey, Chris.

END    

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Show: THE LAST WORD WITH LAWRENCE O`DONNELL

Date: August 10, 2016

Guest: Matt Katz, Dan Rather, David Cay Johnston, Charlie Pierce. Ryan

Solen, Rick Wilson, Karine Jean-Pierre

 

STEVE KORNACKI, MSNBC HOST:  All right, that`s going to do it for us

tonight, we`ll see you –

 

MATT KATZ, JOURNALIST:  A few weeks I think –

 

KORNACKI:  All right, Matt Katz from WNYC, thanks for the time, I

appreciate it.

 

KATZ:  Sure, Steve. 

 

KORNACKI:  All right, that`s going to do it for us tonight, we`ll see you

again tomorrow, and now it`s time for THE LAST WORD with Lawrence

O`Donnell.  Good evening to you, Lawrence.

 

LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC HOST:  Good evening Steve, you know, it always

amazed me during the Chris Christie presidential campaign that so much of

the media forgot what was happening back in New Jersey in this criminal

case which still is going to involve Chris Christie as a witness probably.

 

KORNACKI:  Yes, always sensed that Republican voters knew at the back of

their minds –

 

O`DONNELL:  Yes, they did –

 

KORNACKI:  That`s why you couldn`t get traction.

 

O`DONNELL:  Yes, that`s – you could see that in the polls –

 

KORNACKI:  Yes –

 

O`DONNELL:  That`s true.  Thank you, Steve. 

 

KORNACKI:  OK.

 

O`DONNELL:  Well, Donald Trump had the whole world thinking about

assassination today, not just the United States, because Donald Trump`s

words yesterday about the possible assassination of the next president of

the United States brought painful memories rushing back.

 

Not just here in the United States, but in places where words like Donald

Trump`s have really been words that killed.

 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

 

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE:  Hillary wants to abolish the

Second Amendment.

 

LESTER HOLT, NBC NEWS:  Trump sparked an uproar.

 

TRUMP:  If she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks.

 

HOLT:  With comments suggesting “Second Amendment people could act against

Hillary Clinton.”

 

TRUMP:  Although, the Second Amendment people – maybe there is, I don`t

know.

 

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE:  Words matter, my friends.

 

TRUMP:  The media is almost as crooked as crooked Hillary Clinton.

 

RUDY GUILIANI, FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR:  The liberal media is making it

impossible for him to carry on a campaign.

 

JOE SCARBOROUGH, MSNBC:  It was very painful watching Rudy Giuliani, a guy

that I`ve respected for a very long time, do that routine.

 

CLINTON:  Yesterday we witnessed the latest in a long line of casual

comments from Donald Trump that crossed the line.

 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  This was a joke that he made during a rally.

 

REP. PAUL RYAN (R-WI), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE:  He should never joke about

something like that.

 

REP. PETER KING (R), NEW YORK:  It was wrong, he shouldn`t have said it.

 

GOV. MIKE PENCE (R-IN), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE:  He misspeaks a lot.

 

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  You don`t believe that he was inferring any violence

relating to Hillary Clinton?

 

PENCE:  Oh, of course not.

 

TRUMP:  I mean, give me a break.

 

CLINTON:  Friends, don`t let friends vote for Trump.

 

(CHEERS)

 

TRUMP:  We have a small, a very small planet compared to the universe,

right?

 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

 

O`DONNELL:  “Though I am a murderer, I am not a liar.”  Those are the words

of a self-confessed assassin.  He surrendered on the spot to police after

putting two bullets in the back of his target.

 

And the spot he surrendered on was a political rally.  And the spot where

he was inspired to become an assassin was at another political rally.  A

boisterous, combative political rally of the candidate who he, the

assassin, supported.

 

The assassin`s favorite candidate had many rallies where the opposing

candidate was delegitimized and dehumanized, and instead of chants of “lock

her up”, the crowd chanted “traitor” and “Nazi.”

 

And were reminded of that today by “New York Times” non-partisan columnist

Thomas Friedman, in his reaction to what Donald Trump said yesterday about

Second Amendment people doing something to stop Hillary Clinton after she

is elected president.

 

Tom Friedman`s first sentence today was “and that, ladies and gentlemen, is

how Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin got assassinated.”

 

The current Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was Prime Minister

Rabin`s opponent in that campaign.

 

And the “Times” today described Netanyahu then as “addressing a feverish

right-wing rally from a balcony in Jerusalem`s Zion Square as protesters

below shouted for the death of Rabin the traitor.”

 

Yitzhak Rabin was depicted in a Nazi uniform then, the worst conceivable

depiction of a Jew anywhere, all because of this. 

 

Yitzhak Rabin had participated in negotiations with Palestinian leader

Yasser Arafat, negotiations that were brokered by the President of the

United States, Bill Clinton.

 

Yigal Amir, then a 25-year-old law student in Israel, thought Yitzhak

Rabin`s dealings with the Palestinians was a crime against the Jewish

people for which he, Yigal Amir, had the moral and in his view legal

authority under religious Jewish law to execute capital punishment against

the Prime Minister.

 

Yigal Amir believed that Prime Minister Rabin was putting the people of

Israel at risk and had to be stopped. 

 

Donald Trump tells his followers that Hillary Clinton has already put the

United States at risk through the nuclear deal with Iran and countless

other ways.

 

Donald Trump`s version of calling Hillary Clinton a Nazi is to give her an

imagined role in creating the Islamic State. 

 

In the feverish dementia of Trump world, President Obama and Secretary

Clinton are the founding father and founding mother of the Islamic State. 

This is Donald Trump earlier tonight.

 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

 

TRUMP:  ISIS is honoring President Obama.  He is the founder of ISIS, he is

the founder of ISIS, OK?

 

(BOOING)

 

He`s the founder.  He founded ISIS.  And I would say the co-founder would

be crooked Hillary Clinton.  Co-founder, crooked Hillary Clinton.

 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

 

O`DONNELL:  As that audience knows, the United States military has executed

by drone and otherwise every founding member of ISIS they`ve been able to

find. 

 

If Donald Trump`s audience is as mentally unstable as he is, and if

millions of them are as he would put it Second Amendment people, then

Donald Trump is telling millions of Americans with guns that Hillary

Clinton is one of the worst deadly enemies of the United States that we`ve

ever had.

 

For shots to be fired, all Donald Trump needs is one person who hears him,

who believes him, who has access to guns, and who is as mentally unstable

as Donald Trump is.  Just one.

 

Out of millions of Trump supporters, Donald Trump and countless Republicans

want Trump supporters and the rest of America to believe that Hillary

Clinton already has blood on her hands because of the loss of four American

lives in Benghazi including Hillary Clinton`s friend, Ambassador Chris

Stevens.

 

Hillary Clinton is now a convicted criminal, convicted in the court of

Trump, convicted by Trump at Trump rallies with Trump juries.  The chant is

not “indict her.”  The chant is “lock her up.”

 

The chant says we don`t care that FBI agents and prosecutors have looked at

Hillary Clinton`s State Department e-mail arrangement and not been able to

find a criminally prosecutable offense that they believe they could get a

conviction on.

 

The chant says we don`t care about guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.  The

chant does not say charge her with a crime, put her on trial.  The chant

jumps past all of that and says “lock her up.”  And every once in a while,

there`s someone at a Trump rally who says “kill her.”

 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

 

(CROSSTALK)

 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Hang the bitch.

 

(CROSSTALK)

 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

 

O`DONNELL:  Israeli columnist Chemi Shalev wrote, “like the extreme right

in Israel, many Republicans conveniently ignore the fact that words can

kill. 

 

If anyone has doubts, they could use a short session with Yigal Amir;

Yitzhak Rabin`s assassin, who was inspired by the rabid rhetoric hurled at

the Israeli Prime Minister.”

 

Yigal Amir was despised by most Israelis after the assassination, but not

all.  He had his supporters who believed that he did the right thing for

Israel. 

 

The most important thing to Yigal Amir after he assassinated Yitzhak Rabin

was that he did not want anyone to think he was crazy.

 

He wanted everyone to know he thought carefully about firing two hollow-

point bullets into Yitzhak Rabin`s back and that he had done it for good

reason because he was protecting the people of Israel from a Nazi.

 

He was protecting the people of Israel from a traitor, an enemy of Israel. 

He was saving Israel from Yitzhak Rabin.  He was doing what Donald Trump

says he has to do – save America from Hillary Clinton.

 

Yigal Amir told Israeli police, “I am at peace.  I did what many people

wanted to do.  I am totally normal.  I do not want people to think that I

am crazy, otherwise, I will not achieve my goal.”

 

The question for America tonight, and the urgent question for the Secret

Service tonight, which issued a worried statement about Donald Trump, about

what Donald Trump said yesterday, is how many Yigal Amirs are there here?

 

Who believe every word that Donald Trump says about Hillary Clinton.  Who

believe when Donald Trump calls Hillary Clinton a monster that she is a

monster.  Who believe when Donald Trump calls Hillary Clinton a devil, that

she is the devil.

 

Those are his words.  And that the devil must be stopped.  How many believe

that? In this country of hundreds of millions of guns and millions of

Donald Trump supporters, millions of Hillary Clinton haters.

 

What are the chances that Donald Trump`s feverish out of control language

can stir up the passions of a Donald Trump fanatic who hates Hillary

Clinton and has a gun?

 

It only takes one.  One Trump supporter, that`s all it takes.  Rudy

Giuliani seems to think the Trump rallies are filled with potential

assassins. 

 

This morning, he insisted that Donald Trump did not in any way imply that

Hillary Clinton should or could be assassinated, and then he said this.

 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

 

GIULIANI:  With a crowd like that, if that`s what they thought he meant,

they`d have gone wild.

 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

 

O`DONNELL:  So there`s Rudy Giuliani saying Donald Trump`s crowd would have

gone wild if he had even more directly suggested the assassination of

Hillary Clinton.  The crowd would have gone wild.

 

And it only takes one to go really wild.  Joining us now is Dan Rather,

former anchor of the “Cbs Evening News”, he is currently host of “AXS TV`s”

“The Big Interview”.

 

Dan, when we`re reaching for historical precedent and in big historical

moments like this, we turn to you.  You were there in Dallas on November

22nd, 1963.  You saw what this country went through in a presidential

assassination.

 

That anyone near our politics could have said anything like what Donald

Trump said, leaves us all reeling.  But for you, with your experience, it

must have been something truly unique.

 

DAN RATHER, AXS TV:  Well, yes, it reminds me that, you know, history is

watching and history will judge.  Not just what Donald Trump says but what

the American people decided, how we settle this election campaign.

 

But beginning in my adult lifetime with the assassination of President John

F. Kennedy, we followed with the assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King

and with a lot of exploitive and incendiary language used against Dr. King.

 

And again, it only took one –

 

O`DONNELL:  Yes –

 

RATHER:  You know, with Robert Kennedy who was a candidate for president,

let us not forget in 1968 was assassinated, it only took one.

 

You respond saying that, you know, this is not just another sort of wild

Donald Trump statement.  This is serious.  Because the rhetoric is the

candidate.

 

It`s no good saying, well, he doesn`t mean these things or he doesn`t think

these things through or it`s a joke, which by the way I take special

resentment to this as a joke.

 

This is not a joking matter.  And I never thought that having gone through,

say, a lot of assassinations, by the way, there was an attempt on

presidential candidate George Wallace`s life in the early 1970s as well.

 

Attempt on Gerald Ford`s life, I mean, Ronald –

 

O`DONNELL:  Ronald Reagan –

 

RATHER:  Reagan very nearly died from only one assassin.

 

O`DONNELL:  And all mentally unstable people.  It`s not – 

 

RATHER:  Yes – 

 

O`DONNELL:  That`s who`s out there.  That`s who`s vulnerable to this.

 

RATHER:  Exactly.  And among the side effects of what Donald Trump did by,

you know, wink.  Well, Second Amendment people may have to take care of

Hillary Clinton, paraphrase of it.

 

A side effect of it is that I grew up in Texas, I grew up in a gun culture,

I know a lot of people who are strong for the Second Amendment. 

 

And what Donald Trump did was he undercut a lot of decent, intending

citizens who own guns to make it so that it plays into the stereotype that

every one of them is a gun-crazy nut job just looking for a target.

 

Which is not the case.  But set that aside at the moment because the

(INAUDIBLE) of this story has to be, is this – is this or is this not

acceptable conduct for a major party candidate for president of the United

States.

 

I think the obvious answer, not a matter of opinion, the obvious answer is

absolutely not.  That`s not – that`s just not who we are as a people. 

This is not what we`re about as a society, as a country.

 

And we`ll see how this all plays out.  You know, I`ve said to you before, I

think Donald Trump can win the election. 

 

I think his chances are less now than they were maybe two weeks go before

the Khan sordid business and the gun business.

 

But it would be a mistake to think that the potential is not still there

for him to get elected, to beat Hillary Clinton. 

 

A lot of unexpected things can happen along the way.  But I have enough

confidence in the American public.

 

You know, the American people are civil, decent people.  Yes, they

sometimes feel strongly about their politics or their ideology. 

 

But this kind of uncivil, indecent, offensive and I agree with what one

newspaper today said, with the gun statements.

 

Donald Trump moved from being offensive to being reckless.  And you can`t

abide this kind of recklessness in a presidential campaign.  I don`t care

what you call yourself, progressive, conservative, Republican or Democrat.

 

O`DONNELL:  The – of course, Donald Trump denies that it was a joke.  But

what he does is he denies that he said what he said.  Let`s listen to his

explanation tonight on “Fox News”.

 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

 

TRUMP:  What we`re talking about is political power.  There`s tremendous

political power to save the Second Amendment.  Tremendous. 

 

And you look at – you know, you look at the power they have in terms of

votes and that`s what I was referring to, obviously that`s what I was

referring to, and everybody knows it.

 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

 

O`DONNELL:  So, Dan, he goes on “Fox News” and he just lies about what he

said.  That`s not what he said.  And Greta Van Susteren, no one at “Fox

News” argues with him about that.

 

What is the – what is the right way for an interviewer to handle someone

who`s just going to lie about what he said yesterday?

 

RATHER:  Well, the way to do it is to ask him a direct question and insist

on a direct answer and to keep following up on the question.

 

O`DONNELL:  Yes –

 

RATHER:  Very few people in television, and I fault myself some of the time

to it.  You may ask the tough question. 

 

The interview subject does the old political side shuffle, which is what

Donald Trump is attempting to do here, and you move on.

 

It takes a kind of bore in, keep asking the question, if it takes asking it

10, 12 times, ask it 10, 12 times until and unless it`s clear that the

candidate is not going to answer the question or fesses up that he has said

a lie.

 

And by the way, that`s the operative word sometimes, I think –

 

O`DONNELL:  Yes –

 

RATHER:  Many of us in television are too reluctant to use the word lie. 

We say, well, misspoke himself or dealt in ambiguity.

 

But you know, again, Lawrence, I`ll come back to, I think I have great

confidence in the American people as a whole of being able to separate bull

shine from brass tacks.

 

And when Donald Trump said what he said about guns, people got it.  They

know what he meant.  They also know it wasn`t a joke.  And no amount of

backfilling and side-stepping is going to change that.

 

Now, one could hope and pray that Donald Trump will completely reboot his

campaign and stop saying these offensive and now reckless things.  But I

don`t think that you`re going to bet the rent money on that.

 

O`DONNELL:  Dan, thank you very much for joining us tonight.  I want to see

Donald Trump do the Dan Rather interview.  That`s the one that I`m waiting

for.  Thank you very much, Dan.

 

RATHER:  Thank you very much, Lawrence.

 

O`DONNELL:  Coming up, Donald Trump under oath.  How many times do you

think Donald Trump got caught lying when he was put under oath?

 

And Paul Ryan still won`t comment on Donald Trump`s comments that he last

night pretended he hadn`t heard about the Second Amendment people and

Hillary Clinton. 

 

The Democrat running against Paul Ryan, trying to make history by unseating

the speaker of the house will join us tonight for his first national

interview.

 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

 

O`DONNELL:  Here`s a look at how protesters were treated tonight at a

Donald Trump rally in Florida.

 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

 

(CHEERS)

 

TRUMP:  We`ve got every group imaginable.  I think we have the smartest

people.  I think we have among the most successful people.

 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

 

O`DONNELL:  Oh, yes, the smartest people and most successful people.  How

many times do you think Donald Trump lied – oh, not lied, got caught lying

once he was put under oath about his lies? Tweet us your answers.

 

The answer is coming up next.

 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  He is not a politician.  He is not a person like you

who`s very articulate, very well spoken.  He`s a business person.

 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

 

O`DONNELL:  You cannot say that a candidate running for president is not a

politician.  You can say that he`s a rookie politician.  You can say he`s

only been a politician for about a year.

 

But you cannot defend a politician by saying he`s not a politician.  But

that defense of Donald Trump will never die. 

 

Even after he won 36 primaries as a politician.  Even after his name will

be on the ballot in 50 states as the Republican candidate for president.

 

He`s not a politician.  That`s the defender`s official line.  And that line

allows them, they think, to defend any lie that Donald Trump tells.  And it

allows them to pretend that lies are not lies.

 

The one place in Donald Trump`s life where he hasn`t been able to get away

with lying is when he is under oath in litigation. 

 

Donald Trump made the breathtakingly stupid mistake of suing Tim O`Brien, a

“New York Times” reporter who wrote a book about him.

 

And in that book said that Donald Trump lied about a lot of things,

including his wealth.  O`Brien estimated that Donald Trump`s wealth is

between $150 million and $250 million.

 

Nowhere near a billionaire.  Donald Trump lost the lawsuit but left behind

a 170-page under oath deposition in which he has – was at several points

forced to admit several lies that he told in public as part of his routine.

 

Donald Trump was being questioned by highly experienced former federal

prosecutors who were then in private practice representing the publisher at

no expense to the author.

 

How many times did they catch Donald Trump lying when they put him under

oath? Thirty.  They caught Donald Trump in 30 lies. 

 

And when he was caught lying, he said under oath in the deposition, “I am

no different from a politician running for office.  You always want to put

your best foot forward.”

 

So much for Donald Trump not being a politician.  Joining us now, David Cay

Johnston, Pulitzer prize-winning journalist and columnist with the “Daily

Beast”.

 

He has a new book out, “The Making of Donald Trump”.  And also with us,

Charlie Pierce; writer-at-large for “Esquire”.  David Cay, you`ve been

studying a lot of this territory that Tim O`Brien studied.

 

You`ve gone over more than once.  This is your latest volume, I always have

it with me now, “The Making of Donald Trump”.  This deposition is

invaluable because it has Donald Trump under oath.

 

He knows that if he lies in the deposition he faces perjury charges.  And

so what they present to him is a bunch of public lies that he has rattled

off, and they force him under oath to admit that he was lying when he said

those things publicly.

 

What are some of the gems in there?

 

DAVID CAY JOHNSTON, COLUMNIST, DAILY BEAST:  Well, my favorites out of that

deposition are frankly about how he`s lied about his wealth.  He`s asked

about how do you determine your net worth? And while this isn`t quite a lie

in the way you`re talking about it.

 

He says, well, my feelings, and he goes on at some length that his feelings

and what`s happening that day and his mood, that determines his net worth. 

And he`s suing Tim O`Brien over an issue of net worth, and it`s what he

feels like?

 

Hey, you know what? This has been a good day, Lawrence, I think I am worth

a billion dollars today, how about you?

 

O`DONNELL:  Yes, he publicly was very definitive about one thing in his

life that he never did.  He said he never, ever borrowed money from his

father`s estate, never, absolute zero.

 

Under oath he said, “I think a small amount a long time ago.  I think it

was in the $9 million range.”  So, Charlie Pierce, out there to the public,

zero, never borrowed a penny from my old man, under oath only $9 million.

 

CHARLIE PIERCE, WRITER-AT-LARGE, ESQUIRE:  It`s amazing what the effect of

putting your hand on a Bible, when that Bible is backed up by a prison cell

will do for a fella.  Yes, you fastened, Lawrence, on one of my pet peeves,

which is any politician who runs for office claiming not to be a

politician.

 

But even taking him at his word, ever since he ran his mouth about the

Second Amendment people the other day, I`ve talked to dozens of people,

none of whom are politicians, and none of them would have said that.

 

O`DONNELL:  Yes, exactly, and now to go – going to the lying point. 

Donald Trump is now lying about what he said yesterday. 

 

He could have used the insanity defense.  We all would have accepted that. 

He could have said it was a joke like Paul Ryan did, OK?

 

Very bad joke if it`s a joke.  But instead, he says, I didn`t say what you

heard me say.  And let`s listen to one of the Trump audience members who`s

now become famous because he`s the red shirt guy who we all saw behind

Donald Trump.

 

Let`s listen to the way he interpreted what Donald Trump said.

 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  I was thinking exactly what I said to my neighbor,

Connie(ph), and that was, I can`t believe he said it.  The media will have

a field day with this one.  Down here in the south, we don`t curse in front

of women.

 

We don`t drink liquor in front of a preacher, and we don`t make jokes like

that in public.  But it was clear to my mind and to the people around me

that he was trying to make a joke.

 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

 

O`DONNELL:  So, David, he sees it as a joke, but he also doesn`t in any way

confuse what Donald Trump was actually saying.

 

JOHNSTON:  But Lawrence, he was obviously a plant paid to be there by the

Hillary Clinton campaign.

 

(LAUGHTER)

 

He`s now –

 

O`DONNELL:  Trump supporter –

 

JOHNSTON:  You know –

 

O`DONNELL:  True blue, a true red Trump supporter –

 

JOHNSTON:  Right –

 

O`DONNELL:  Yes –   

 

JOHNSTON:  We`re joking about this, but listen, Donald`s lies have led to

violence.  Not just the violence he`s called for and then denied. 

 

But one of the Upstate New York newspapers say, has a story about a guy

wearing a Trump shirt who was beaten and attacked.

 

He is unleashing terrible forces in this country, and it`s going to get

worse.  And let`s assume the media suddenly says we`re not going to cover

these things.  That won`t have any effect here.

 

He has now let the dogs loose.  And there is going to be trouble down the

road.  And I don`t know what you do to stop this once you have done what

Donald has done.  Which is signal to people that it`s OK to carry out a

crime that Donald wouldn`t himself do.

 

He wants you to do for his benefit.

 

O`DONNELL:  Charlie –

 

PIERCE:  Yes, Lawrence –

 

O`DONNELL:  Donald Trump used to primarily avoid any interview on Prime

Time here on Msnbc, he`s never done it.  But he`s now limiting himself

almost exclusively to “Fox News”, where it`s going to be all softball.

 

And Greta Van Susteren have the softballs in her hand tonight.  She allowed

Donald Trump to tell the lie about what he said yesterday with absolutely

no come-back from Greta Van Susteren at all.

 

PIERCE:  Yes, I think by November, he`s going to be appearing exclusively

on Ham radio sets in upper Michigan.

 

O`DONNELL:  Yes –

 

PIERCE:  Which will be – which will be all right because we`ll all be able

to hear him in our teeth.

 

O`DONNELL:  Yes –

 

PIERCE:  No, I think David came to a very good point there, and I sensed

this actually in 2012.  And it goes back further than that.  It certainly

goes back to the first inauguration of this – of this particular

president.

 

There`s a wildness and an untamed element to American conservative politics

that`s gotten worse over the last 20 years. 

 

And it`s sort of like this free-floating dark energy that`s been looking

for a focus, a focal point over the last two or three cycles.  And boy, it

found one this time. 

 

O`DONNELL:  David –

 

PIERCE:  Indeed, I mean, I`ll tell you what.  It – I went to a Donald

Trump rally, the first one I ever went to in Lowell, Massachusetts almost a

year ago.

 

And it was flat terrifying, it really was.

 

O`DONNELL:  David Cay Johnston and Charlie Pierce, thank you both for

joining us tonight, I appreciate it.

 

PIERCE:  Thank you. 

 

O`DONNELL:  Coming up, when was the last time the speaker of the house lost

his own congressional re-election in his own district? I can remember it

vividly as if it was yesterday.  So, it`s not 200 years ago.  The man

trying to repeat history is now running against Paul Ryan, and he will join

us.

 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

 

O`DONNELL:  It`s only happened once.  Well, it`s happened more than once. 

But only once in the 20th century, only once in modern American history has

the speaker of the house been defeated in his re-election campaign in his

home district. 

 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

 

TOM BROKAW, NBC NEWS ANCHOR:  For the leading congressional Democrat it was

insult added to injury.  Tom Foley not only lost his job as House speaker,

he lost his congressional seat as well, conceding this afternoon. 

 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

 

O`DONNELL:  Joining us now for his first national interview, the man who

wants to pull off that miracle once again, Ryan Solen, winner of the

Democratic primary in Wisconsin, who now has the honor of running against

House Speaker Paul Ryan in the general election. 

 

Mr. Solen, thank you very much for joining us tonight. 

 

RYAN SOLEN (D-WI), CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE:  Thank you for the opportunity. 

I appreciate it. 

 

O`DONNELL:  What is your pitch to voters in that district, why they should

get rid of the most powerful member of Congress representing them now? 

 

SOLEN:  The idea behind it all is that Paul Ryan has been ineffective

speaker of the house at this point.  He`s had an awful lot of opportunity. 

He`s been in office for a long time.  And he just has not been as effective

as he should be. 

 

We are trying to make progress on an awful lot of issues, and so far, it`s

just been gridlock.  And being the ranking member of the Republican Party,

he should be doing more. 

 

O`DONNELL:  It`s really quite striking that as speaker, he`s the leader of

a party whose mission is to actually do nothing.  They don`t want to pass

appropriations bills.  They don`t want government spending going out there

into these districts. 

 

So, historically, speakers have been really big benefactors to their own

district, and he leads a party that is basically opposed to delivering

anything to anyone. 

 

SOLEN:  Yes, you are correct in that assessment.  I think we`ve been

waiting for a while.  We`ve gone through a really rough time as far as

economics have gone.  I know there have been claims that the economy is

bouncing back.  You could take the Dow Jones and use that as an estimate. 

But the fact of the matter is the people themselves I don`t think are

feeling that.  They`re still looking for more. 

 

O`DONNELL:  Let`s listen to what Paul Ryan said last night in defense of

Donald Trump. 

 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

 

REP. PAUL RYAN (R-WI), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE:  I heard about the Second

Amendment quote.  It sounds like just a joke gone bad.  You should never

joke about something like that.  I didn`t actually hear the comments.  I

only heard about those comments. 

 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

 

O`DONNELL:  What was your reaction to that? 

 

SOLEN:  Well, my first reaction would be to Donald Trump.  I really am

trying to figure out what his end game is here, you know?  I don`t think

that that`s appropriate, to even be joking about, for an office that he`s

aspiring to, it`s totally inappropriate. 

 

And for the speaker of the House to say it was just a joke gone bad I think

that needs to be retracted. 

 

O`DONNELL:  What is ahead for you in this campaign?  Do you think there

will be a debate in this campaign against Paul Ryan? 

 

SOLEN:  I certainly hope so.  We`ve actually contacted the Paul Ryan

campaign and have asked for a debate.  So far, we have not heard anything

back.  But I`m hoping that we will have one soon. 

 

O`DONNELL:  Do you have any disagreements with Hillary Clinton in terms of

her platform and the programs that she wants to advance through Congress? 

 

SOLEN:  Right now, I think that she`s got a very solid platform.  I know

she said she`s going to adopt some of Bernie Sanders` additional issue

items, and I think that`s going to go a long way toward healing the

apparent rift that occurred earlier on.  I really think that she`s got

great chances and good opportunities to make a difference in the country. 

 

O`DONNELL:  Ryan Solen, thank you very much for joining us tonight.  I

really appreciate it. 

 

SOLEN:  Thank you.  I appreciate it. 

 

O`DONNELL:  Coming up, there is a new candidate for president.  He`s a

Republican.  He`s a Mormon.  No one`s ever heard of him, which is the down

side.  But those two other factors, Republican and Mormon, means that

Donald Trump is in more trouble than he already was in Utah.  Hillary

Clinton might be the first Democrat to win Utah since 1964. 

 

And Hillary Clinton has more Republican states leaning her way now.  All of

that is in tonight`s campaign war room. 

 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

 

ANNOUNCER:  This is THE LAST WORD on campaign 2016. 

 

O`DONNELL:  Forty-two years ago this week, our politics and our government

went through something that it`s never gone through before and may never go

through again.  A crisis like we have never seen, a crisis that has lessons

for the age of Trump. 

 

But first, here`s how it looked today on the campaign trail. 

 

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

 

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE:  This is not a normal election. 

 

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE:  Hillary will be a horror show. 

And I`m going to be an unbelievable positive. 

 

CLINTON:  In the first 100 days of my administration, we will make the

biggest investment in new jobs, good-paying jobs since World War II. 

 

TRUMP:  Take a look at the promises she made as a senator from New York and

the job she was going to create.  Take a look at what happened.  It is a

wasteland, what`s happened up there. 

 

CLINTON:  I believe in small business.  That`s why I want to be a small

business president.  And that`s a big contrast with Donald Trump who has

spent his career stiffing small businesses. 

 

TRUMP:  Look at the bad decisions that she`s made. 

 

GOV. MIKE PENCE (R-IN), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE:  More e-mails have come

to light today that seemed to provide direct evidence that favors were done

by State Department officials for foreign donors to the Clinton Foundation. 

That`s the old pay-to-play system the American people are sick and tired

of, and Donald Trump and I are going to bring it to a crashing end. 

 

TRUMP:  Look at the bad judgment.  And now we`re going to put her in charge

of our country?  We won`t have a country left. 

 

CLINTON:  Trump`s belief that he alone can fix America`s problems is so

contrary to who we are as a nation. 

 

TRUMP:  Politicians will tell me, you can`t build a wall.  Really?  You can

build a wall? 

 

They don`t know.  You know, I`ve built 90-story buildings.  Building

buildings is tough.  Building a wall, boy, is that easy. 

 

CLINTON:  I am humbled and moved by the Republicans who are willing to

stand up and say Donald Trump doesn`t represent their values.

 

(END VIDEOTAPE)

 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

 

O`DONNELL:  What did you have for lunch today?  Was it better than this? 

 

That lunch was ordered by a guy who could have had anything he wanted, the

president of the United States.  And it was his last lunch in the White

House.  He obviously didn`t have the stomach for much that day. 

 

Richard Nixon`s last days and nights in the White House were a nightmare

while an impeachment investigation was closing in on him in the Congress. 

The day before his last lunch, he had a final meeting with his cabinet,

pictured here.  He insisted to them then that he would not resign.  And

three days later, on August 9th, 1974, Richard Nixon resigned and waved

good-bye to Washington forever as he boarded a helicopter on the White

House lawn. 

 

Several months before that, Richard Nixon defended himself this way. 

 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

 

RICHARD NIXON, FORMER PRESIDENT:  Let me just say this.  And I want to say

this to the television audience.  I made my mistakes.  But in all of my

years of public life, I have never profited, never profited from public

service.  I`ve earned every cent.  And in all of my years of public life, I

have never obstructed justice. 

 

And I think too that I can say that in my years of public life, that I

welcome this kind of examination because people have got to know whether or

not their president is a crook.  Well, I`m not a crook.  I`ve earned

everything I`ve got. 

 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

 

O`DONNELL:  It was a stunning word choice for the president.  Crook.  “I`m

not a crook.”  And anyone who heard that never forgot it. 

 

In those days, as suspicious as everyone had the right to be about

criminality in the Nixon White House, we lived in a pre-Trumpian world of

politics in which none of Richard Nixon`s opponents in Congress had called

him a crook.  Richard Nixon is the first elected official to use the word

“crook” in relation to Richard Nixon. 

 

Throughout that crisis in the White House, civility prevailed in Washington

even though crimes were committed.  Prior to Donald Trump, American

politics was capable of dealing with terrible things, with criminal conduct

in the White House, with a presidential resignation – and doing it without

the political leaders of either party name-calling or suggesting that the

solution to the problem maybe should be left to Second Amendment people. 

 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

 

TRUMP:  Hillary wants to abolish, essentially abolish the Second Amendment. 

By the way, if she gets to pick – 

 

(BOOS)

 

If she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks.  Although the

Second Amendment people, maybe there is.  I don`t know.  

 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

 

O`DONNELL:  Time for tonight`s “War Room”.

 

Hillary Clinton is reaching out to voters in a state that has not been won

by a Democrat in 52 years, Utah.  A new poll of Utah voters shows Donald

Trump at 37, Hillary Clinton at 25, Gary Johnson at 16.  That`s high for

him.  Jill Stein at 1.  Anti-Trump candidate Evan McMullin, who was born in

Utah, also hopes to appear on the Utah ballot now as a presidential line. 

He could take votes from Donald Trump. 

 

Here`s what he said on “MORNING JOE” earlier this week. 

 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

 

EVAN MCMULLIN (I), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE:  As a former CIA officer, I

deeply believe that Donald Trump harms the strength and prosperity of this

country.  Donald seeks to divide us.  He seeks to pit us against each other

one race and religion against the other.  This is the work of our

adversaries.  This is the work of Vladimir Putin.  And as I say, it is the

work of Donald Trump. 

 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

 

O`DONNELL:  With 89 days left for the campaign war rooms, joining us

tonight on THE LAST WORD “War Room” are Rick Wilson, a Republican

strategist helping Evan McMullin in that campaign.  Also with us, Karine

Jean-Pierre, a veteran of President Obama`s and Martin O`Malley`s

presidential war rooms.

 

So, Rick, you`ve got a foot back in the war room in this campaign. 

 

So, just a little by bio stuff on Evan McMullin.  He is Mormon.  He is from

Utah.  He worked on the Hill for a while for Republicans, worked in the CIA

before that.  It looks like he can get on the Utah ballot because you`ve

got to do it by August 15th.  It`s only 1,000 signatures. 

 

But a lot of deadlines are going to be impossible for him in a bunch of

states.  How many ballots do you think he can get on? 

 

RICK WILSON, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST:  We`ve got a strategy for very wide

ballot access, Lawrence.  And even in some of the states where the

deadlines have passed, we have a ballot strategy to engage with minor party

ballot access in those states, and with appeals to some of those deadlines

in those states. 

 

And if that fails, we feel like we`ve got a very good litigation case to

make, to open up access, including some of the noted legal scholars in the

country who said that a lot of these things have simply been untested and

we`re about to go test them.  But we`ve got a team of junkyard dog lawyers

and a campaign expert who are going to go out in these states, in the

states where we still have time we`re going to be out there doing the

petition route.  We`re going to be getting out in those states.  We`re

going to be doing the third party ballot route.  We`ve got a few other

tricks up our sleeve in that regard as well. 

 

O`DONNELL:  Karine, so here we have the alternative on the ballot for

Republicans in Utah.  Gary Johnson`s doing – outperforming his national

numbers in Utah.  Now we have Evan McMullin coming along.  Presumably, they

will take votes away from Donald Trump.  And, by the way, Hillary Clinton

is an alternative to Donald Trump for a bunch of Republicans in Utah too. 

Interviews in the “New York Times” today saying that they will vote for

Hillary Clinton to very specifically prevent Trump from becoming president. 

 

This is a state that the Clinton campaign is now taking very seriously. 

 

KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, FORMER MARTIN O`MALLEY ADVISOR:  Yes, which I think is

a very smart strategy.  We saw that they did an op-ed.  Hillary Clinton did

an op-ed in one of the local papers out in Utah. 

 

And look, Donald Trump is running one of the most offensive, divisive

campaigns of all time.  So, it`s not surprising that she`s appealing to

disaffected Republican voters, independent voters, which is like I said a

very smart strategy. 

 

Look, at the end of the day this game is going to be won on the ground. 

You`ve got to get 270 electoral colleges.  And you know, because of this

hate-filled campaign that Donald Trump is running, the Democrats actually

have a clearer path to getting 270.  But not only that, they could expand

the electorate as well. 

 

O`DONNELL:  Let`s listen to what Donald Trump said about Mitt Romney, who

is one of the great admired political figures in Utah.  Let`s listen to

this. 

 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

 

TRUMP:  For a guy that really let us down, this poor Mitt Romney, it`s sad,

he`s going around saying oh, oh – 

 

(BOOS)

 

He`s a sad case.  He choked.  You know what I choke artist is?  Right? 

 

You know what a choke artist – you know when a guy misses the kick you get

rid of him.  You bring another one in, right?  Because you don`t want that

thought going in his head too much.  He choked. 

 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

 

O`DONNELL:  Rick Wilson, it seems to me the only strategy for Donald Trump

to try to win Utah is to stay out of Utah and not let them hear his voice

and just hope that the word “Republican” beside his name gets him the win

there. 

 

WILSON:  Lawrence, that`s increasingly true everywhere in the country.  I

mean, if you`re sitting in the Donald Trump war room, which I think

basically is his Twitter account, and you`re looking at the map right now -

-

 

O`DONNELL:  It`s a guy in pajamas with ice cream and a Twitter machine. 

 

WILSON:  Pretty much.  You`d be feeling a lot of depression if you were

Donald Trump because he`s being soundly rejected by the American people

across the board.  That`s why Evan thinks he`s got a moment here that Utah

and beyond, where we can offer people a different alternative to the Trump

disaster and frankly a different alternative to Hillary Clinton as well. 

 

We`ll see how we do.  But we feel like there`s a moment here. 

 

O`DONNELL:  Karine, the Clinton campaign has to decide where it`s going to

seriously invest resources hoping for a win.  And then there`s another

decision to make.  Where are they going to put in some resources hoping to

force Donald Trump to spend some time there and take Donald Trump away from

more important states where he should be campaigning? 

 

JEAN-PIERRE:  Well, what`s very interesting that`s happening is there are

states that have been heavily Republican for some time now that are

potentially possibly in play.  It looks like Arizona, which is heavily

Latino, Latino population.  Georgia, which has a large African-American

population.  And North Carolina, which President Obama won in 2008 but lost

in 2012.  And remember, the first stop that he made, the first campaign

stop that he made for Hillary Clinton was in charlotte, North Carolina. 

 

So there are definitely opportunities there for the Hillary campaign to

kind of focus on, to make the Trump campaign focus in on more. 

 

O`DONNELL:  Karine Jean-Pierre and Rick Wilson, thank you both for joining

us tonight. 

 

JEAN-PIERRE:  Thank you. 

 

WILSON:  Thanks, Lawrence. 

 

O`DONNELL:  We`ll be right back with the last word. 

 

(COMMERCIOAL BREAK)

 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

 

TRUMP:  Oh, and by the way, they said my wife Melania might have come in

illegally.  Can you believe that one?  No, no, no.  They said, headlines,

maybe she came in illegally.  Maybe. 

 

Let me tell you one thing.  She has got it so documented.  So, she`s going

to have a little news conference over the next couple of weeks.  That`s

going to – I love it.  I love it. 

 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

 

O`DONNELL:  Prediction.  Melania Trump will never have the news conference

that Donald Trump just promised she would have.  And we will be cataloging

one more lie in the Trump campaign when that doesn`t happen as we expect it

not to happen.  

 

That`s THE LAST WORD for tonight. 

 

Our live coverage continues now with Chris Hayes.  He`s going to take us to

midnight. 

 

Hey, Chris.

 

 

 

END   

 

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