The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donell, Transcript, 7/29/2016

Guests:
Laurence Tribe, Khizr Khan, Ghazala Khan, Tony Schwartz
Transcript:

Show: THE LAST WORD WITH LAWRENCE O`DONNELL
Date: July 29, 2016
Guest: Laurence Tribe, Khizr Khan, Ghazala Khan, Tony Schwartz

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RACHEL MADDOW, HOST OF “THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW”: Thank you for being with
us tonight. I`m going to leave you now with two things to look ahead to,
one strange thing, one awesome thing. The strange thing is that Donald
Trump and his running mate, Mike Pence, have zero campaign events, zero
public events scheduled for this whole weekend, which is a very unexpected
way to start the general election. So that`s the strange thing to look at
to. The awesome thing to look ahead to is the interview that Lawrence
O`Donnell has scored tonight. That is straight ahead. It is mandatory
viewing. “The Last Word with Lawrence O`Connell” starts right now.
Lawrence?

LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, HOST OF “THE LAST WORD WITH LAWRENCE O`DONNELL”:
Rachel, thank you very much for that. You know, I was watching Mr. And
Mrs. Khan on the stage last night. As I was listening to him speak, I just
immediately asked our producers to get to work to see if they would be
willing to come here tonight. So, I`m really glad that they are.

MADDOW: And you are the only person who they have spoken to since that
world changing thing that they did last night. Congratulations, man, I`m
really, really looking forward to seeing that.

O`DONNELL: Thank you, Rachel.

MADDOW: Thanks.

O`DONNELL: I really appreciate it.

MADDOW: Yeah.

O`DONNELL: So, as Rachel and I just discussed, my first guest tonight will
be the parents of Captain Khan who were all – who were introduced to us
all last night on that convention stage. They will be joining us via
satellite from their home in Virginia. We will also be joined tonight by
Tony Schwartz who wrote the Donald Trump`s autobiography for him and knows
the workings of Donald Trump`s mind as well as anyone. We`ll ask Tony
Schwartz to try to help to explain to Mr. And Mrs. Khan and to the rest of
us why Donald Trump says so many hateful and hurtful things about so many
people.

(EGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: You want to see the best of
America, you need look no further than Army Captain Humayun Khan.

KHIZR KHAN, FATHER OF CAPTAIN HUMAYUN KHAN: Tonight, we are honored to
stand here as parents of Captain Humayun Khan and as patriotic American-
Muslims with undivided loyalty to our country. He sacrificed his life to
save the lives of his fellow soldiers. If it was up to Donald Trump, he
never would have been in America. He wants to build walls and ban us from
this country, consistently smears the character of Muslims. Donald trump,
have you even read the United States Constitution? I will gladly lend you
my copy. Go look at the graves of brave patriots who died defending the
United States of America, you will see all faiths, genders and ethnicities.
You have sacrificed nothing and no one! We cannot solve our problems by
building walls. We are stronger together.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is “The Last Word” on Campaign 2016.

O`DONNELL: America has just finished listening to two weeks of convention
speeches, 204 speeches, 71 of them at the Republican Convention last week,
and 133 of them at the Democratic Convention this week. One speech stands
out among those 204 speeches like no other, and that is the speech we will
focus on tonight. It stands out the way only a first-time convention
speech can stand out, by taking us completely by surprise. Barack Obama
did that in 2004 when he delivered his first convention speech which was
like nothing we`d ever seen at a convention before. President Obama`s
speech this week was brilliant and moving but it was his fourth convention
speech and we had every reason to expect it to be great.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES: And tonight, I ask you to do for
Hillary Clinton what you did for me. I ask you to carry her the same way
you carried me because you`re who I was talking about 12 years ago when I
talked about hope. It`s been you who fueled my dogged faith in our future.
Even when the odds were great, even when the road is long, hope in the face
of difficulty, hope in the face of uncertainty, the audacity of hope.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Michelle Obama gave us the best convention speech ever
delivered by a first lady.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHELLE OBAMA, FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: That is the story of this
country, the story that has brought me to the stage tonight, the story of
generations of people who felt the lash of bondage, the shame of servitude,
the sting of segregation but who kept on striving and hoping and doing what
needed to be done so that the day I wake up every morning in a house that
was built by slaves.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Joe Biden lifted the crowd in the hall and was lifted by them.
Bill Clinton gave a speech he`s been dreaming about giving for years. You
saw Chelsea Clinton delivered the best introduction of a political parent
that we have yet seen, and we saw the candidate accept the nomination with
all of the historic import of another first in our politics, a first that
should have come a long time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: Standing here as my mother`s daughter and my daughter`s mother, I
am so happy this day has come. I`m happy for grandmothers and little girls
and everyone in between. I`m happy for boys and men because when any
barrier falls in America, it clears the way for everyone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Of all of those speeches, Michelle Obama`s had the most
memorable line, the one we`ll be able to quote for the rest of our lives,
about her waking up every morning in a house built by slaves. We might
remember the feelings that we had listening to the other speeches, but most
of us won`t be able to quote them. But already, millions of Americans have
memorized without even making an effort to memorize lines spoken by a man
who had never been to a convention before. He said, “Have you ever read
the U.S. Constitution? You sacrificed nothing and no one.” And we will
remember those words forever because he was speaking them directly to
Donald Trump and because he has sacrificed so very much.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: If you want to see the best of America, you need look no further
than Army Captain Humayun Khan. He was born in United Arab Emirates. He
moved to Maryland as a small child. He later graduated from the University
of Virginia before enlisting in the United States Army. In June 2004, he
was serving in Iraq. One day while his infantry unit was guarding the
gates of their base, a suspicious vehicle appeared. Captain Khan told his
troops to get back but he went forward. He took 10 steps toward the car
before it exploded. Captain Khan was killed but his unit was saved by his
courageous act.

Captain Khan was posthumously awarded the Bronze Star and Purple Heart. He
was just 27 years old. “We still wonder what made him take those 10
steps,” Khan` father said in a recent interview. “Maybe that`s the point,”
he went on, “were all the values, all the service to country, all the
things he learned in this country kicked in. It was those values that made
him take those 10steps. Those ten steps told us we did not make a mistake
in moving to this country,” his father finished.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Joining us now from their home, the parents of U.S. Army
Captain Humayun Khan. Mr. and Mrs. Khan, thank you very much for joining
us tonight. I really appreciate it. And I begin by saying how very sorry
I am for your loss and I know I`m speaking for millions of people when I
say that and I hope you could feel that in the response that you got from
your appearance last night.

K. KHAN: Thank you, Lawrence. Thank you for inviting us. Thank you for
speaking with us. We are private, ordinary American citizens. This
political theater, political drama has heated up a little too much for us.
We participated – this was our first convention we participated just to be
there, to be part of the tribute to our son. But thank you for inviting us
and talking to us.

O`DONNELL: Mrs. Ghazala Kahn, I would like to speak to you for a moment
because I know with our conversations that we`ve had today that you were
very nervous about going to the convention and you actually were reluctant
and really want to go out on the stage and especially didn`t want to speak
because you felt you would not be able to keep your composure. And I have
to say, I`m just like you. I don`t think I would have been able to do what
your husband did out there last night. How do you feel now about having
gone to the convention and gone out on the stage and seen what an impact
it`s had?

GHAZALA KHAN, MOTHER OF CAPTAIN HUMAYUN KHAN: First of all, I thank all
America who listen from their heart, to my husband`s and my heart and I`m
so grateful for that. And it was very nervous because I cannot see my
son`s picture and I cannot even come in the room where his pictures are and
that`s why when I saw the picture on my back, I couldn`t take it and I
controlled myself at that time, so it is very hard.

O`DONNELL: I think we all understand that completely. As parents, it`s
impossible for us to conceive of what it`s like to feel that you`ve gone
through. And Mr. Kahn, the comments you made last night, the deciding to
speak directly to Donald Trump, why did you choose to do that?

K. KHAN: Lawrence, let me be very candid. That was only half of the
speech. The rest of the half I`ll either tell you tonight or hopefully
soon, and that is not addressing the Donald Trump or the Democratic
convention. Audience, the rest of the speeches – there are two
individuals and those are someone else. I was – she`s my coach. I would
think of something that they have asked us to say something, I would say
this and she would say, no, don`t say this. So she was my coach and she
was there. I was strengthened by her presence. Forty years of marriage
has brought us in a position where we are strength for one another.

So her being there was the strength that I could hold my composure. I am
much weaker than she is in such matters. So it was her strength that made
me stand there and address a candidate for a major party for the highest
office of this country and nobody has been able to convince this candidate
for the highest office of this exemplary democracy in the world, to not
violate the Constitution of the United States. We have quietly watched his
speeches, his bullying, school yard bullying, and we have sat – some
intelligent people like yourself and others have commented yet nothing has
made the difference. And as I said, that was only half of the conversation
that I had.

The other half and I share this with you and I share this with your
audience, the other half is addressed to Senate Majority Leader, Mitch
McConnell. What a patriot, decent human being, what a leader he is. And
then Paul Ryan, the Speaker of the House, leading the majority in the
United States House of Representative, what a patriot, decent human being
he is. But isn`t this time to repudiate Trump what he has said, what he
has threatened to do? This is model imperative for both leaders to say to
him that enough, you are about to sink the ship of the patriot Republicans.

Republicans are as patriotic as Democrats are. They are half of the
goodness of this beautiful country, half of this political process that the
rest of the world watches enviously, learns from it. They have disagreed
with his practices, his threats to minorities, disrespect to the legal
system, legal institutions. I want to ask them, if your candidate, and I
wish this would get to their ears and I will continue to ask this question,
if your candidate wins and he governs the way he has campaigned, my
country, this country will have constitutional crisis that never before in
the history of this country. And my conscience compels me under these very
difficult circumstances, very raw emotions. I am a very composed person.
I don`t become that emotional in public discourse.

But there is so much at stake and I appeal to both of these leaders, this
is the time – there comes a time in the history of a nation where ethical,
moral stand has to be taken regardless of the political cost. The only
reason they are not repudiating this – his behavior, his threat to our
democracy, our decency, our foundation is just because of political
consequences. I hope I answered your question. I`m sorry that I answered
it long-winded way, but this takes a really high .

O`DONNELL: That`s what I was going to ask you to do. When you said half
of what you wanted to say was left unsaid, I wanted to make sure that you
completed that. And Mrs. Khan, let me ask you about how you and your
husband chose to come to America. You began life in Pakistan. You moved
to the United Arab Emirates for a bit. But then you chose to come to the
United States with your – and at that point you had two of your sons.
Mrs. Khan, how did you make that decision? Why did you choose the United
States?

G KHAN: I think at that time my husband had to get his study done and
complete his study so the best, in our eyes was the United States of
America, to come here and study. When we came here and he has gone to
finish his degree and I was staying home with the kids and I had very good
friends, all American, all colors and everyone was there and they supported
me and they have given me a courage and the love that I think is best in
this country than I could have found anywhere else. So we decided to
settle here for our children, for their future.

O`DONNELL: Mr. and Mrs. Khan, please stay with us. We`re going to take a
little break here. And when we come back, I want to talk more about your
son. I want America to learn more about him. We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: We`re back here in “The Last Word” with Ghazala Khan and her
husband, Khizr Khan. They are the proud parents of Army Captain Humayun
Khan who was killed in action in Iraq.

Mr. And Mrs. Khan, I want to talk about your son and hear more about him.
I know that from things that I`ve read, you were a little surprised when he
decided to join ROTC, when he was in college and he was joining a peacetime
military at that time where there was no trouble on the horizon. And what
tell us about what he told you about why he wanted to join the United
States Army?

K. KHAN: She asked me to explain. He was already admitted to the
University of Virginia and he would meet in different circles, members of
the ROTC and they were his classmates. And he would clearly see the
difference in their discipline, in their character, in their dealing with
one another and that impressed him really much.

He was a wonderful and deliberate person in his spirit. And he told us
that he finds it very attractive that he would join ROTC because that fits
into his vision, his way of living student life, discipline, organize,
doing things with honor, with dignity.

And we were surprised in a way but then, of course, we always instructed
our children and told them this is our wish that they would pursue
wholeheartedly whatever they would do, so that his elder brother, and his
younger, and him, Ayun, did the same thing.

O`DONNELL: And Mrs. Kahn, how did you feel – first of all, how did he
feel and how did you feel when he was ordered to Iraq? He had already
completed his service to the military but he was called back for service to
be ordered to Iraq. How did he feel about that and what was your reaction
to it?

G. KHAN: I was really worried and I talked to him about all of this, that
this is a war. And I don`t want you to go out or do something stupid, and
don`t be a hero. Please come back. And go safely. My prayers are with
you. And be strong.

So he told me, “Mom, I have a responsibility that I cannot deny. I have to
be taking care of my soldiers because they depend on me.” But still, I was
keep telling him, be safe and don`t become hero for me, just be my son.
Come back as a son but he came back as a hero.

O`DONNELL: Mr. Kahn, what was your reaction when your son shipped off to
Iraq?

K. KHAN: I had conversation with him. I asked him, what are your
thoughts, what are your feelings? You have completed your tour of duty,
can we do something so they don`t send you? Of course, as a parent, as a
father, knowing the burdens of war, burden of conflict, I was worried about
his safety, his well-being.

And he said to me, he said, “I am committed to making sure the unit relies
on me. They depend on my guidance to them, my support, by taking care of
them. So I will do this tour and then my tour of duty will be complete and
my service will be complete and I will come back and I will go to law
school.”

Seeing that composure, seeing that piece in his voice in his decision,
heartens me that the rest is in God`s hands and so we sent him.

O`DONNELL: And Mrs. Kahn, what was your last conversation with your son
when he was in Iraq?

G. KHAN: We spoke. He called me on Mother`s Day in May of 2004. And
that`s just – I was telling him, don`t go out of your camp. Just stay in.
And he had made lots of Muslim friends there, Iraqi, they used to come and
work for them for the Baqubah Camp.

So he said, “Don`t worry, mom. I`m safe. I`m OK. I`m just taking care of
my people, they`re safe. I`m not doing anything. I`m just taking care of
them.”

So he really – whatever he was saying, taking care of them, he did. He
took care of everyone that day.

O`DONNELL: And Mr. Kahn, what was your last conversation with your son
when he was in Iraq?

K. KHAN: It was a telephone conversation and my – I asked him – look,
you have completed your tour of duty. You have been honorable to your
promise that you made to the military. Can we not get you back now?

And he said, “Baba, my sons called me Baba, and he said that, “First, I
have this commitment of my unit. I want to make sure that I complete that.
Second, “Army has a stop loss policy that up until the tour of duty of the
entire unit is complete. I will not be able to leave them here. So just
pray that all goes well and I will be careful and I have to take care of my
soldiers and the rest will be fine.”

So, I gave him my best wishes and I told him to be strong and come back,
that was the last conversation I had.

O`DONELL: Hillary Clinton told your son`s story, the story of what
happened to him in Iraq last night in that video. And she talked about
those ten steps, those final ten steps of his life that he took to protect
his fellow soldiers. What do you think made him take those ten steps?

K. KHAN: Lawrence, as a father and as a parent of a brave soldier, I can
think of nothing but the goodness that this person had, the care, the
kindness our son had in his heart, in his being that. His commanders, his
fellow soldiers have told us that they only have read in history books a
person so caring that he fully realized what is about to take place at that
gate and he extends his hand, first, he tells his soldiers to hit the
ground and there were hundreds of Iraqis at the gate, also, and they went
down as well.

And then, he moves, fully knowing – he was a trained military officer. He
knew the danger. He extended his hand towards the oncoming car, trying to
stop it, and took ten steps so that he would make sure that that car does
not hit the gate or the walls and caused prematurely. That defines, that
moment, he lost his life but that defined him that how giving, how caring,
how decent he was and believe me, he came to this country only two years
old and the rest was made right here.

We are a testament to the goodness. He was testament to what he learned in
school, in college, in this society, in this country, its values and all
that, prepared him to take those ten steps. And I wish the results would
have been different.

And when I was informed of his death, few days, I couldn`t believe that
this has happened to such a decent human being. I kept hoping and waiting
that the chaplains would come back and tell us, “We apologized we made a
mistake.” It was total denial, I couldn`t comprehend. I couldn`t imagine
that such a wonderful, caring, kind, thoughtful human being would not be
among us, but it was for a worthy cause.

As a result, he saved hundreds of American soldiers that were on the other
side of the wall, and hundreds of Muslims approximately, we are told the
number of the people that were outside was about 300 local Muslims that
were about to enter the gates to do the day`s work and soldiers were
getting ready to have breakfast and then, go out of there.

We are blessed with his light. We learn from him every day and we are
grateful that we had him for 27 years.

O`DONNEL: Mrs. Khan, just a final question, Donald Trump`s children last
week said at the convention that their father, Donald Trump, has sacrificed
a lot to run for president. What would you like to say to Americans like
them about what real sacrifice really is?

K. KHAN: Well, only one thought comes to mind is that to sacrifice, you
don`t have to wear the uniform to sacrifice. We all as patriots can
sacrifice and do sacrifice and sacrifice includes not threatening others,
not making others feel less.

Sacrifice includes considering the rest of your patriot citizens equal,
same, not causing them to worry about their existence, worry about their
being in the United States.

He has done nothing, no sacrifice. And because he does not have that
concept in his mind, we have watched quietly and peacefully his behavior,
his expression, his children`s behavior, their expression about him. He
maybe a wonderful father, but he is not suitable, not fit for even for the
candidacy of this stewardship that he is seeking.

Therefore, he maybe a wonderful father, but he – we don`t see any glimpse
of any sacrifice, glimpse of any consideration, any thoughtfulness in his
behavior.

O`DONNELL: Mrs. Khan, I want to thank you very much for joining us
tonight. I know how difficult this is for you. I really appreciate it.
And, Mr. Khan, thank you for joining us and completing the thoughts that
you presented last night at the convention. Mr. and Mrs. Khan, thank you
very much. We really appreciate it.

G. KHAN: Thank you.

K. KHAN: Thank you.

G. KHAN: Thank you.

K. KHAN: Thank you very much.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

K. KHAN: Isn`t that this time to repudiate Trump, what he has said, what
he has threatened to do. This is moral imperative for both leaders to say
to him that enough, you are about to sink the ship of the patriot
Republicans.

O`DONNELL: Tony Schwartz, who wrote Donald Trump`s autobiography for him
and knows his mind, as well as anyone who`s willing to talk honestly about
it will join us next to try to explain why Donald Trump says those things
that he says.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: Tony Schwartz is the co-author of Donald Trump`s first book,
“The Art of the Deal”, which is to say he is the real author of that book
and he joins us now.

And, Tony, you lived basically with Donald Trump for awhile trying to pull
material for a so called autobiography out of him which you did. And you
got to know him so well. We just saw the Khan parents in their home in
Virginia in a room that is dedicated to the memory of their son. It`s
memorabilia of their son in there and Mrs. Khan doesn`t like to go in the
room.

You heard their pain. You heard the pain that Donald Trump has inflicted
on them. If you had a moment with them to try to explain to them who is
this man saying these things, what would you tell them?

TONY SCHWARTZ, CO-AUTHOR, ART OF THE DEAL: He`s a deeply, deeply damaged
human being. That`s what I would say. I would say that he grew up in a
way that left him without a heart, without a soul, without a conscience and
he has no awareness of what it is he`s doing and the kind of pain he`s
inflicting. He could have watched that episode and not been moved by it.
That`s almost lacking humanity.

O`DONNELL: Would he watch what they said and thought, “Oh, they don`t
understand, I wasn`t – I didn`t mean anything about them when I said I
want to ban all Muslims?”

SCHWARTZ: You know, the immediate thing I think is, he`s trying to figure
out a tweet in his mind to disparage or diminish the impact of what they
said. And then standing behind him is someone with a, you know, straight
jacket from his campaign desperately trying to keep him from doing what
he`s impulsively, reactively wanting to do.

O`DONNELL: You and I are sitting here under the same threat. Donald Trump
is now threatening to sue you because you`re talking about him. I was the
first person he threatened to sue via a tweet for the things that I said on
this show five years ago.

You are still speaking out, you know, and I have to say, it`s been
fascinating to read what you`ve had to say because you`ve been silent for
decades since the art of the deal about this whole thing. And many people,
as you know, in New York journalism at the time and I among them were
wondering, what happened to Tony, what did he do in writing this crazy book
that was clearly propaganda from the start.

SCHWARTZ: Yeah. Wow. You know, what I`ve been doing the last 30 years is
trying to redeem the choice I made. So, you know, I felt there`s an
implicit – I don`t want to belabor this because what matters is Trump, not
me. But, I felt there is an implicit confidentiality with a subject.

O`DONNELL: Yeah. Sure.

SCHWARTZ: … and I held that confidence, so long as I didn`t think Donald
Trump was going to do more than, you know, be a chimney (ph) businessman.

O`DONNELL: It could seem like there`s anything at stake and told?

SCHWARTZ: Correct. I mean, you know, there was at stake as we`ve learned
from things.

O`DONNELL: Yeah.

SCHWARTZ: … like Trump University.

O`DONNELL: Yeah.

SCHWARTZ: But modest and I didn`t think it was something I wanted to do.
The day he announced and said on the stage, you know, at the podium, we
need a president who wrote “The Art of the Deal”. I thought to myself, if
he could lie about that, which is so transparently false, he could lie
about anything and he will and he has.

O`DONNELL: You, you know, I`ve always wanted to talk to Trump`s shrink,
that`s really the only person I want to talk to, but there`s no such
person.

SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

O`DONNELL: You`re the closest we have. You said his deepest need is to be
noticed in every moment, noticed good, noticed bad, it doesn`t matter.
Notice me, notice me, notice me. That`s where his attention is.

SCHWARTZ: He`s a black hole and I say that with a certain amount of
compassion, terrified as I am. There is nothing inside him to sustain and
make him feel good or worthy. And the most – the deepest need in any
human being is to feel worthy, is to feel valued.

So he doesn`t have it, so he needs to seek it constantly from outside. It
says if you have a leaking bottle of water and you need to constantly
refill it because the hole can`t be repaired.

O`DONNELL: Tony Schwartz, wish we had more time. We gave extra time to
the Khans and it changed the whole show. I really appreciate you coming
tonight. Thank you, Tony, very much.

SCHWARTZ: Thank you.

O`DONNELL: I really appreciate it. We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: This New York Times story has become the most commented on
story ever published in the newspaper`s long history. Donald Trump calls
on Russia to find Hillary Clinton`s missing e-mails. More than 9,200
people commented.

Donald Trump`s comment also caught the attention of Harvard Law Professor
Laurence Tribe who will join us next to discuss the legal implications of
what Donald Trump has been saying about Russia.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SENATOR CLAIRE MCCASKILL, (D) MISSOURI: The notion he would invite a
foreign nation to conduct an attack against our country, it`s just beyond
the pale. And I believe it violates the Logan Act. And I think he should
be investigated for that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Joining us now for a guided tour of the Logan Act and other
relevant law, Harvard Law Professor Laurence Tribe. Professor, thank you
very much for joining us tonight.

LAURENCE TRIBE, HARVARD LAW PROFESSOR: Thank you, Larry.

O`DONNELL: You have the floor. Consider this your lecture chamber, make
us all smarter. What law should we be thinking about in relation to this
stuff?

TRIBE: Well, I think we should be thinking fundamentally about the
constitution of the United States which I think Mr. Khan rightly says
Donald Trump either has never read or read and didn`t absorb. But the
specific laws that he violated, I think, are the Foreign Agent Act which
makes it a crime to induce any foreign power to interfere with an American
election.

That – People haven`t talked about yet. Also, the Logan Act, which was
enacted back in 1799 and fundamentally says that you cannot engage in
negotiations with a foreign power. It hasn`t been used, but that`s because
we haven`t had very many Donald Trumps, thank God, in our history. I think
he`s violated that act.

I think he`s also, by inducing a foreign power, foreign assassin, in fact,
and Vladimir Putin, to engage in cyber warfare against the United States
and to commit espionage and illegal surveillance. He has committed various
other federal crimes.

Now, I think because people don`t want to criminalize politics, I
understand that, and I`m not suggesting that he should be locked up the way
he suggests and encourages others to suggest Hillary Clinton should be
locked up.

But I think we should look squarely in that man`s face and remember the
Khans and what they sacrificed. And realize that he is, as his ghost
writer indicates, he is a black hole. There`s no content in that face.
There`s no soul. And I think that is in a way more deeply important than
the fact that he thinks the constitution has 12 articles rather than seven
or whatever it is that he thinks. He`s clearly not capable of being
commander-in-chief.

And I think we owe it to the survival of our nation to recognize that this
isn`t just politics. This is an existential threat to a Democratic
republic, to our way of life. And I think even those people who don`t like
Hillary Clinton got to realize that voting for Trump or voting for an
independent candidate who has no chance or, worst of all, staying home, is
really giving up something for which people have died, including the Khan`s
brave son.

O`DONNELL: Professor Tribe, it`s going to be an awkward moment for the
attorney general who hears these things and knows the law the way you do
and might be thinking, should something be said to him.

And I wonder if it might be a good idea that when he receives an
intelligence briefing that they not send someone from the Justice
Department to have a little chat just before the intelligence briefing
explaining to him all of the relevant laws involved, what he`s already
tampering with, lines he might be crossing and lines he could cross after
an intelligence briefing.

TRIBE: I think that`s a good idea. But I think he needs a really
fundamental civics education. I don`t think he understands more than a
typical 4th Grader. And I don`t know that they can get that done and still
have time to share with many of our nation`s secrets.

O`DONNELL: Harvard Law Professor Laurence Tribe, thank you very much for
joining us tonight. I really appreciate it.

TRIBE: Thank you, Lawrence.

O`DONNELL: We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: We had to completely change the structure of this show as it
was proceeding tonight because Mr. And Mrs. Khan had so much to say, and
we`re willing to stay with us as long as they were. It was an
extraordinary opportunity to hear more from them.

And if you want to see what they have to say again, hear what they have to
say again, you can find the full interview on our Last Word Facebook page.
That`s already posted. That`s already to be seen.

That`s the Last Word for this week. Joy Reid is in for Chris Hayes, and
that`s next.

END

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