The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell, Transcript 6/23/2016

Scott Peters, Lucia McBath, Sam Stein, David Corn, David Milne, Kelly Cobiela, Dominic Rushe, Nina Turner

Date: June 23, 2016
Guest: Scott Peters, Lucia McBath, Sam Stein, David Corn, David Milne,
Kelly Cobiela, Dominic Rushe, Nina Turner

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC: That does it for us tonight, we will see you again
tomorrow, now, it`s time for THE LAST WORD with Lawrence O`Donnell.

Good evening Lawrence.

LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, HOST, THE LAST WORD: Rachel, before you go, I have a
quick pitch for a movie, you tell me, whether it`s a comedy or a horror


O`DONNELL: And it`s basically your new neighbor is Donald Trump who is
building a golf course next to your house. Is that – is that a comedy or
is that a horror movie?

MADDOW: For me, even if it was just the golf course, it would be a horror
movie –


MADDOW: That turns Trump and it gets much more –


MADDOW: Complicated.

O`DONNELL: Yes, well, we actually have someone who is living that movie in
Scotland, he`s going to be one of our guests tonight –

MADDOW: Amazing –

O`DONNELL: Why – from Scotland, and he`ll explain to us why he now flies
a Mexican flag –


On his property beside the Trump golf course.

MADDOW: Excellent, well done, my friend –

O`DONNELL: Thank you, Rachel –

MADDOW: I will be riveted, thanks.

O`DONNELL: Thanks. Well, we have just completed the most active week on
gun control in Congress in over 20 years. And today, the Senate had
another vote on guns and this time, the NRA lost.

But last night`s rebellion in the House of Representatives was the dramatic
peak of the week, and it was brought to us by Representative Scott Peters`
Periscope video, Congressman Peters will be our first guest.


REP. JOHN LEWIS (D), GEORGIA: We are going to win!


REPRESENTATIVES: Guided by the moral strength of John Lewis, our sit-in on
the floor resonated around the world.

watched a publicity stunt. I think it`s such a very dangerous precedent.

PELOSI: Dangerous? This isn`t about politics, it`s about the safety of the
American people.

LEWIS: Keep the faith –


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Keep the faith –

LEWIS: Keep your eyes –


LEWIS: On the prize.


PELOSI: We`re watching carefully what`s happening on the Senate side now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We should be able to come together and work for
common sense solutions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let us show the NRA that they cannot rule what is said
and voted on and approved here in this chamber, the other chamber or in

LEWIS: We`re going to continue to push, to pull, to stand up, and if
necessary, to sit down!



O`DONNELL: We have just witnessed a week of high drama in Congress on gun
control. And it continued today in the Senate where, for once, the
National Rifle Association had a very bad day.

A week ago tonight, we were reporting on the stunning concession from
Senate Republican leadership that Connecticut`s junior Senator Chris Murphy
won after a 15-hour filibuster on the Senate floor that surprised everyone
in Washington because the filibuster actually accomplished something.

At first, it seemed the filibuster`s only accomplishment was to get a vote
scheduled on competing bills to prevent people on suspected terror lists
from buying guns.

But getting a vote in the Senate on guns is something that Senator Murphy
and the Democrats couldn`t get after 20 children were gunned down in Sandy
Hook Elementary School in Connecticut.

Not even a vote. And of course, the House of Representatives didn`t have a
vote on any gun legislation after those children were murdered.

It was the murder of those children and their teachers that seemed to make
gun legislation the most hopeless possible cause in Washington because if
the mass murder of children couldn`t loosen the NRA`s grip on Congress,
then nothing could.

And then came Orlando and the breaking of the record for victims in this
kind of shooting – 49. We didn`t know it until Senator Murphy took a
stand on the Senate floor.

But those 49, on top of the 26 at Sandy Hook Elementary School, on top of
the 32 at Virginia Tech, on top of the 13 at Columbine High School.

On top of the hundreds of others in mass shootings, two numerous dimension
from a Colorado movie theater to a South Carolina Church to an Oregon
Community College.

On top of all of those bodies, the 49 in Orlando, were what it took to get
a vote in the Senate. Senator Murphy and the Democrats lost those votes on

But today, Democrats joined with Republican Senator Susan Collins of Maine
on a new version of the bill. And for the first time in a generation, the
National Rifle Association lost a vote today in the United States Senate,
52 to 46.

It was just a procedural vote, it did not move the bill toward passage, but
it keeps the bill alive. Senator Collins and others will continue trying
to find eight more senators who are willing to stand against the NRA and
deliver the 60 votes the bill would need to overcome procedural hurdles in
the Senate.

On Monday night when the NRA won, I said then that sometimes being on the
losing side of a vote in the Senate is just another step on the long road
to victory.

And so today, the United States Senate took what might be another historic
step toward victory. The history of progress in the Congress has always
been a history of small steps.

Each of those steps, no matter how small, counts. Each of those steps,
leads to the possibility, at least the possibility of another step forward.

Today`s vote in the Senate came the day after a night like no other in the
House of Representatives. House rules are designed to make the minority in
the house completely irrelevant, completely powerless.

And so, house Democrats yesterday decided the time had finally come to
break those rules, to become relevant again.

And so, they did. When at 11:18 a.m., the conscience of the Congress,
Representative John Lewis began what was in effect, the first filibuster in
the history of the House of Representatives, where filibusters are against
the rules.

You saw the drama play out here live last night on Msnbc, Speaker Paul Ryan
had the “C-Span” cameras turned off, and house members broke the rules by
sending Periscope video out of the house chamber on their phones.

We were allowed to bear witness to something that the house rule say we are
not allowed to see, thanks to those house members who decided the rules of
the house were not serving the 85 percent of Americans who want Congress to
stop gun sales to people on possible terror list.


LEWIS: Ladies and gentlemen, it would be legislative malpractice –


LEWIS: For us not to deal with these issues.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know what it`s like to see a gun pointed at you,
and wonder if you were going to live. And I know what it`s like to hide in
a closet and pray to God, do not let anything happen to me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All we are asking for is a vote, folks. There`s
nothing about this, it`s a stunt. This is a reality. We`re talking about
32,000 deaths a year.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Silence is not a solution. This demands more.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Speaker, give us this vote. Give us this vote. No
bill, no break.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: NRA, get the hell out of the way.

LEWIS: I don`t know what the end is going to be, but my idea, just stay


We`re going to – here –





LEWIS: We shall win. There`s victory on the other side.


O`DONNELL: Joining us now, Democratic Congressman Scott Peters of
California. Scott Peters was one of the congressmen who delivered that
video to the world through Periscope.

And Scott Peters, I got the Periscope app yesterday, thanks –


O`DONNELL: To your efforts, I did –

PETERS: So did I, I got it yesterday.

O`DONNELL: You just got it yesterday?

PETERS: I did.

O`DONNELL: And this was in anticipation of needing it out on the floor?

PETERS: Well, what happened was, you know, we realized that when I got
down there, I saw Mr. Lewis sitting on the floor in violation of house

I realized that something pretty important was building, and the
conversation started, and we understood that the cameras and the
microphones had been turned off.

The house has cameras and microphones that the speaker controls, it had
been turned off. And it was pretty apparent that, you know, we weren`t
going to have a way for the American people to see what was happening.

So, one of my staffers suggested I download this app, Periscope, which I
did on the house floor, and I turned it on, and I started to play with it.

And I – you know, it`s not legal to – it`s not within the rules, it`s not
within the rules to film. So, I put some movies out through my Twitter
feed and then I shut it off.

Didn`t think anything of it, but immediately, people said, you know, what
happened to Peters` feed? Can he get it back up again, I was watching that.

And the sergeant at arms was telling us not to film, I snap a couple more
and it got to the point where I realize I was getting such a response that
it was important for us to show America what was happening on the house

And more important, you know, in the context of civil disobedience, than to
strictly abide by the house rules at that moment when the cameras were
turned off.

I made a deal with myself, I turned off my camera when they turned theirs
back on. So, when we went in session, I turned it off.

But the response was amazing, and what an opportunity through this new
technology for America to connect with its government, in a way I suggest
probably has never happened before.

O`DONNELL: Now, I just want you to share with the audience what this
decision is like because it`s not a crime.

It`s a – but it is –

PETERS: Right –

O`DONNELL: A house rule. And I am going to assume that you`ve never
broken a house rule before, most members of Congress never come close to
breaking a house rule or senators breaking a Senate rule.

Those things are sacred, people do not go near them and stay well within
them. And so, I want people to understand the enormity of the decision to
do that, even that decision to sit on the floor.

Because –


O`DONNELL: It risks some kind of discipline from the house. It does risk
some kind of disciplinary action from the house.

But was it a matter of a confidence that came from the numbers, the amount
of people who were involved in this, that you felt we can do this, and they
won`t take action against us or we will do this, and we will suffer
whatever consequences the house visit upon us?

PETERS: Well, I mean, you used the phrase take action, that`s really what
it`s all about. We are so frustrated having seen – I took office just
after the Sandy Hook massacre.

I was elected in 2012, that occurred in the next month in December. And I
said – I felt the same thing you said, if we`re not – if we`re not going
to see a change in the attitude toward guns from this, what is it going to

And now we`ve seen people gunned down in elementary schools, in movie
theaters, in church, in college, and now in nightclub.

Imagine what it must be like for a family to get that phone call that your
kid is not coming back. And we wanted to see some action, we are boiling
over with frustration.

And I know we`re the minority party, but you`ve got to account for the fact
that, Congress is at its lowest popularity for decades, 15 percent, 10

Because we`re not doing anything. And here`s a perfect example of
something we`re – the American people are behind it.

As you said, 85 percent, two simple requests, background check loophole,
keeping guns from terrorists, we can`t even get a vote on that.

So, I just decided you know, it`s worth – if we`re going to spend the time
here all night, it`s worth the American people knowing it.

Knowing about it, otherwise, it would have been just like a very long
caucus meeting where we – you know, we tend to argue about what we agree
on, you know, frankly.

But I thought this was worthwhile, and I thought some of the – some of the
speeches were inspiring, I thought it was great to see the collegiality,
the common purpose, and I do think we made a difference.

Because I know how – I personally know how we connected with the American
people through this terrific new technology, this great opportunity.

You know, if you thought this would happen 20 or 30 years ago, it would
have been the subject of a new story, but no one would have been able to
connect in this emotional – this really like we were with the country

O`DONNELL: And it seems you may have swayed some Republican votes today in
the Senate. Let`s take – let`s just listen to some of what was said in
the Senate today before that vote. Let`s listen.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Surely, on an issue of this importance, we should be
able to come together and work for common sense solutions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But let`s actually do something designed to work.
That`s what this bipartisan proposal is all about.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That it is a significant step forward in gun control
and violence control.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This motion, the motion to table is really a motion to
kill. Because that`s what I suspect, too many of my colleagues on the
other side of the aisle want to do to the Collins proposal.

They`re afraid that if they give it a real vote, it might actually have a
chance of passing.


O`DONNELL: Congressman Peters, eight Republicans voted with the Democrats
today. They got 52 votes, they needed 60 as it happens in the Senate.

But it seems to me, we are seeing things that we were not going to see
where not for the – what Senator Murphy did in his filibuster in the

And who knows how that vote would have turned out today if you and the
house hadn`t done what you did.

PETERS: I felt really strongly that we have changed the conversation about
this. Like you`re saying small steps are important.

But this issue is really connected to the American people in an emotional
way. They`re as fed up as we are. They saw that we`re as fed up as they

And we are joined in an effort to really try to get action here. I thought
it was really quite profound, and if we had any role in getting those eight
votes, that`s great, that`s progress, I think we`re going to win this

And I think if the – if the speaker wants to continue to fight it, he`s
going to add a complication in the Fall to an already complicated Fall for

O`DONNELL: Congressman Scott Peters, thank you very much for joining us
after your long night last night, really appreciate it.

PETERS: Thanks for having me, Lawrence.

O`DONNELL: We`re joined now by Lucia McBath, she`s the national
spokesperson for Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America.

Her son, Jordan Davis, a victim of gun violence, he was killed at age 17.
Lucia, welcome back to the show, it`s – I`m glad to see you.


What was it like for you to see this week of action beginning with the
filibuster? Beginning with this mutiny last night in the house, this very
dramatic situation.

And now, a series of votes in the Senate that might be the beginning of

AMERICA: Well, I think this was a very historic week, historic moments for
Congress. You know, we`ve never seen anything like this at all with our
congressional leaders.

It was very historic. We actually saw them standing up for the American
people by sitting in. This was a historic sit-in.

I had a chance to stand outside with a mass of people outside the Capitol
as our legislators were sitting in. There`s a complete scene-change,
Lawrence, definitely.

There`s a momentum building that we did not see before. I think that the
American people have decided that enough is enough.

And that we are going to make our legislators accountable to us. And so,
we`re very excited about what has happened, of course, we know that we have
a long way to go.

The momentum is building, but change is slow, it has to evolve. So, the
momentum that we`ve been able to establish at this point, all the people
that were outside with me, we were in the rain yesterday, we stayed until
this morning.

We just have to be able to take that momentum back to our state houses and
begin having those hard discussions with the legislators that are on the
other side of the fence.

But in the end, we know that we`re going to win, because this is the right
thing for the American people. People should not have to live in fear of
being gunned down in their communities.

And we`re so excited that our legislators are finally listening to the will
of the people.

O`DONNELL: Lucia McBath, thank you very much for joining us tonight, and I
am sorry that you got activated on this issue the way you did through the
loss of your son.

Thank you very much for joining us again tonight.

MCBATH: Thank you.

O`DONNELL: Coming up, the “Dump Trump” movement at the convention is
getting serious, they`re going public with their campaign to stop the Trump

And imagine someone builds a golf course next door to your house in – say,
oh, Scotland. And before long, you`ve got an American – you`ve got a
Mexican flag flying over your house because Donald Trump is the guy who
owns that golf course.

One of Donald Trump`s neighbors in Scotland will join us, that`s coming up.


O`DONNELL: Here is some of Lester Holt`s interview today with Donald


LESTER HOLT, JOURNALIST: I want to get your reaction to the Supreme Court
today, essentially leaving in place the ban against the Obama
administration from going forward with the President`s immigration plan.

ENTERTAINMENT RESORTS: Well, I haven`t seen it, I just heard about it two
seconds ago. So, I do want to look at it, I want to study it. We`ll take
a look at it, what was the vote?

HOLT: Well, essentially, it`s a tie, so –

TRUMP: Yes –

HOLT: It leaves –

TRUMP: So, it`s in a tie –

HOLT: In place the previous –

TRUMP: Had a feeling that might happen, right, on this one. I`m going to
look at both opinions and I`ll give it to you the next time.

HOLT: Let me ask you this, if you were – as president, if any of your
immigration policies came before the Supreme Court, would it be your wish
that the court`s only Latina Sonia Sotomayor recuse herself?

TRUMP: No, it wouldn`t. I`d want people looking forward than anyone. I
want people without conflict. And you have to assume they don`t have a

HOLT: Well, I ask obviously in the context of your objections to Judge

TRUMP: Look, I have a case that I`m going to win. I have thousands and
thousands of people that are – they love it, they love the course and
we`re going to win the case.


O`DONNELL: Coming up, the “Dump Trump” movement at the Republican
convention. And one of Donald Trump`s neighbors, neighbors of his golf
course in Scotland will join us live from Scotland.


O`DONNELL: With Donald Trump`s campaign claim aimed in the wrong direction
at this hour, somewhere over the North Atlantic, headed to Scotland,
instead of you know, America, where the voters are.

The movement to dump Trump at the Republican convention is working
overtime. The courageous conservative Super PAC as they call themselves
has taken its stop Trump campaign public now in a radio ad in Iowa.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Iowa Republican state committee man Steve Scheffler is
trying to force Republican delegates to vote for Donald Trump, and
threatening those who find that vote to be morally offensive.

We elect delegates to nominate presidential candidates, not as rubber
stamps, but as real people. To make real decisions in the best interest of
our party and our conservative values.

Normally, our delegates would ratify the primary winner. But this is one
of those times when the delegates need to be free to vote their conscience.

Call Steve Scheffler and tell him to let our delegates pick the best
Republican to fight for our conservative values and beat Hillary Clinton.


O`DONNELL: Another dump Trump group called Delegates Unbound told Nbc News
that it will begin a national cable TV ad campaign this Sunday.

According to “Politico”, the Trump campaign is organizing a whip operation
to keep Trump delegates from defecting at the convention, including
building a database with detailed profiles of most of the delegates
attending the convention.

Joining us now, Sam Stein; the senior politics editor at the “Huffington
Post” and an Msnbc contributor, and David Corn, the Washington bureau chief
for “Mother Jones” and an Msnbc political analyst.

Sam, they`re building a database. They`re doing that kind of, you know,
campaign stuff that everybody is supposed to do and have been, you know,
working on for a long time.

They`re finally –


O`DONNELL: Getting out, now that they`re getting hit by – with radio ads
trying to pull delegates away from them.

SAM STEIN: Well, I thought the funny part was that it was most of the
information, not all of the –


STEIN: Delegate information.


STEIN: Don`t go too far, you know –

O`DONNELL: Right –

STEIN: You know, let`s just stick with three-fourths of the delegates.

O`DONNELL: Right –

STEIN: Clearly, the Trump campaign is playing catch up at this juncture.
You noticed this obviously in the moment when they were getting hassled by
the Cruz campaign in the state convention caucuses where Cruz – the
election but you end up getting more delegates appointed.

And so, you know, obviously, the Trump campaign isn`t – operation, they`re
not fully engaged in this process, they`re waking up to the reality of
their – could be chaos in Cleveland, which was obvious, anyone who was

And yet I still feel like in the end, there is enough factors in his favor
that he will end up getting the nomination, and there will be relatively
drama free.

O`DONNELL: It seems if Donald Trump gets through a teleprompter speech on
any given day, the waters seems to calm a bit.


They feel it, but let`s look at another –

STEIN: Yes –

O`DONNELL: Ad, this is Senator Mark Kirk, Republican senator running for
re-election in Illinois. Let`s look at this.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mark is the first Republican to support a vote on
President Obama`s Supreme Court nominee.

He is a leader on protecting women`s right to choose and Mark Kirk backed
his party to say Donald Trump is not fit to be commander-in-chief.

Mark Kirk, courageous and independent,

SEN. MARK KIRK (R), ILLINOIS: I am Mark Kirk and I approve this message.


O`DONNELL: It was bound to happen, David Corn, a Republican senator
running –


O`DONNELL: Against Donald Trump to get re-elected instead of running
directly against an opponent.

CORN: There are a handful of corzine, modern Republicans who will be doing
this, who are in very competitive races, a few key states across the

But I really think the Trump exit movement has a long way to go, and not
much time and not much money to make a real dent here.

I mean, Trump – you know, a couple of weeks ago, maybe they chipped it a
bit show that eight out of ten Republican voters, even close to nine or ten
Republican voters were OK with Trump as the nominee.

That is hardly a – you know, a cry of the heart for some sort of, you
know, “Dump Trump” movement. And the “Dump Trump” movement is almost as
feckless in some ways as the Trump campaign.

They have no one to rally around, they don`t have much money, they`ve –
you know, have had sort of these fates, you know, on and off for the last
eight months and have never really being able to get their act together.

It`s not even a movement. So, I don`t really see how this plays out in a
way that does challenge Trump, unless Trump, you know, there`s video of
him, you know, breaking the law and knocking over a bake which even then
might not hurt Trump.

STEIN: That will –


STEIN: Help him –

O`DONNELL: Sam, there`s a new Nbc tracking poll, saying this about the
Republican Party, the perception of the Republican Party nationally.

Seven percent think it`s united, 27 percent think it`s divided now. But
don`t worry, it will be united by November. And 61 percent believe it`s
divided now, it`s going to stay divided right through election day.

STEIN: I mean, it seems right.


STEIN: This wasn`t – this wasn`t a very, you know, easy-going primary
process, it`s contentious through and through.

But you know, for all the factors that David mentioned, Trump will likely
emerge as the nominee in Cleveland.

Now, I think the chief among them is, there`s no one figure who is going to
be the anti-Trump. You`ll be risking a lot if you put your neck out at the
convention even before hand, saying rally around me because at this
juncture though, Trump is a divisive figure.

You know, 30 percent, 35 percent of the country remains deeply committed to
him and 45 percent of the Republican Party is certainly deeply committed to

And they will go bananas if this guy gets the nomination taken away from
him, or is perceived that is taken away from him at the convention.

O`DONNELL: David, it seems like Donald Trump`s two biggest enemies are the
polls and Donald Trump.

When he got in his most serious trouble in the last couple of weeks, the
polls were turning against him, and then Donald Trump did this attack on
the judge, and nobody saw that coming.

And that`s – it`s always been Donald Trump who`s empowered to hurt Donald
Trump the most.

CORN: Well, you know, we just looked at what happened after Orlando. He
had a – and I hate to talk about a tragedy in (INAUDIBLE) political terms.

But he had a chance then to show that he could be stable and steady and act
like a commander-in-chief, and he could even say that these policies have
led to this moment.

But instead, he made it all about himself in a really distasteful way. He
doesn`t even take the opportunities that are presented to him.

O`DONNELL: Sam Stein and David Corn, thank you both for joining us
tonight, appreciate it –

STEIN: Thank you, Lawrence –

CORN: Sure thing.

O`DONNELL: So, Donald Trump as you know is on his way to Scotland to do a
little golf course visiting which is not exactly a normal presidential
campaign stop.

And one of his neighbors, one of his golf course neighbors will join us to
explain why he flies the Mexican flag next to Donald Trump`s golf course.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER [voice-over]: Trump is going to Scotland this



UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER [voice-over]: Donald Trump has always been seen
as something of a grotesque American curiosity in Britann.



DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It looks like we are not going
to have a very good relationship.


O`DONNELL: That was the Clinton campaign send-off to Donald Trump, who is
somewhere over the North Atlantic at this very moment on his way to his
mother`s homeland of Scotland. Donald Trump is making the traditional
republican presidential campaign stop in Scotland to visit golf courses.

Well, it is not exactly traditional, yet, but it will be, whenever a member
of the Trump family runs for president. Donald Trump`s golf course in
Aberdeen in Scotland is the Trump University of golf courses. All of the
promises that he made to get permission to build the place, turned out be -
- to put it mildly, wild exaggerations.

Ten years ago, he promised a 450-room luxury hotel and spa, that would
create 6,000 maybe 7,000 jobs. Today, the Trump gold course employs 150
people, and has 19 rooms to rent in a renovated mansion. The golf course
is never crowded.

One neighbor of the golf course has painted no more Trump lies on the side
of one of his buildings. And Donald Trump battled neighbors and tried to
seize their property through Scotland`s version of eminent domain. And
when he failed, he tried to block any view of the neighbors by creating
man-made hills, by building fences.

And after building one fence to block one of the neighbors, Donald Trump
sent that neighbor a bill to pay for that fence. That neighbor, David
Milne, said, it ain`t getting paid. I am never paying it so much for
Donald Trump`s promise to get Mexico to pay for that wall.”

And joining us now is that neighbor. Joining us by Skype in Aberdeen is
David Milne. He is a neighbor of the Trump golf course there, and he is
now the author of a book entitled “Blinded By The Bling,” and it is about
Donald Trump.

David, I asked at the beginning of the show tonight, would having Donald
Trump as a neighborhood with his golf course, would that be like living in
a comedy movie or a horror movie? America awaits your answer, David?

DAVID MILNE, TRIPPING UP TRUMP: To be quite honest, Lawrence, it is both.
As an extreme comedy, we never know what stunt they are going to pull next,
but that is also where the horror comes in, because you never quite sure
what is going to be waiting for you when you come home.

O`DONNELL: And what is the attitude now in the area there, now that people
have seen what the real outcome of dealing with Donald Trump is?

MILNE: Generally, it is a bit – well, laughter, almost. The man has made
a fool of himself and his team, and he is continuing to do so. The project
is not doing very well. Well, I do not think it is doing very well. Why
else would you open your clubhouse as a crash three days a week? If he
thought it was doing really well, I do not think that is a good practice.

O`DONNELL: And David, what surprise you to learn that he has reported
losing money on the golf course in financial reports made in Scotland and
here in the United States on his financial disclosures as a presidential
candidate. He claims to be making huge amounts of money from that gold
course where over there he claims to be losing money.

MILNE: Well, we have heard something about it before when disclosure
documents were first released. We were a little surprised, but then when
you actually think about it and you see the way he deals with things, he
obviously thinks that people only listen to one version of events to anyone
side, not appreciating hat media these days is truly international. It is
not surprising.

This is the sort of things he does. He will tell you what he thinks he
wants you to hear. In other words, you will find it through your fear and
hopes and do what blazes he likes anyway.

O`DONNELL: And it seems just common business sense, that if you go into a
place like this, you are going to have to use democratic skills. You are
going to have win hearts and minds. You cannot just go in and just kind of
steam roll people into agreeing with you. What is it about in your
experience with Donald, what is it about that, that he just does not

MILNE: It is basically I think a form of ego and arrogance. It is simple.
He think that he will get what he wants and you will do as you are told.
He does not seem to appreciate that other people have opinions, have
rights, beliefs and quite capable, especially that I am here of telling him
to go away.


O`DONNELL: David Milne, I am very sorry, that the ugly American, as they
are portrayed in these situations has come to your neighborhood and thank
you very much for joining us tonight. Really appreciate it, David.

MILNE: No problem. Thank you for the opportunity.

O`DONNELL: Thank you. Coming up. More from Britain. The big Brexit vote
tonight. It could change the face of Europe. That is coming up.



O`DONNELL: It is now about 18 minutes before 4:00 a.m. in the United
Kingdom, were votes are still being counted in the referendum on whether UK
should exit the European Union. Both President Obama and British Prime
Minister David Cameron have voiced their support for the United Kingdom
staying in the EU.

Politicians on both sides of the issue have told reporters, it is going to
be a long night. According to our partner in the UK ITV News, the vote to
remain in the EU stands at 48.5 percent. And the vote to leave is now at
51.5 percent. For the latest on the vote, we go to NBC`s Kelly Cobiela in
London. Kelly.

KELLY COBIELA,NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Lawrence, a real nail biter here in
the UK tonight about half of the countries, 382 districts now reporting
their result, about half of votes reported.

And believe it or not, it is still early in the count. There is some very
big population areas that still have not finished their vote counting.
Results for London, for example, still trickling in. Some district showing
much stronger than expected numbers voting in favor or remaining in the
European Union.

One district voting 75 percent in favor of staying in, 79 percent even in
another part of London. But we are seeing the same sort of trend on the
leave side. Districts in England`s working class, northeast for example,
and other regions outside of London, in the country side, voting much more
heavily in favor of leaving the EU than expected.

And this is a pure numbers game. Whoever gets whichever side gets the most
vote wins. So far, very high turn-out numbers. Where that turnout is,
where it is the highest, will be a major factor in where this turns out.

O`DONNELL: Kelly Cobiela, thank you very much for joining us.

Up next, more on Brexit and what Bernie Sanders had to say in a speech here
in New York City tonight.




EVELINE ARMSTRONG, LONG VOTER: Each side, throwing it at each other,
everyone is wrong. This side is wrong. This side is wrong. And it is
just give the facts, less like telling everybody in the street what to vote
for. It is just – it is just turning into a war now, and it is just


O`DONNELL: Joining us now, Dominic Rushe, U.S. Business Editor for “The
Guardian.: Dominic, if Europe wakes up in three hours, to the UK having
left the European Union, what happens?

that. A lot of Europe is still awake now. It is a real nail biter.
Nobody knows what is going to happen. Anybody does tell you that nothing
there was going to happen, a clown, because the world is so interconnected

The economy – the U.S. economy, and the U.K. economy and the French and
the Chinese are all interconnected. The U.K. is the fifth largest economy
in the world. Tomorrow morning, it becomes a very different, say we do
exit, which the polls are now suggesting we may do. Tomorrow, the U.K.
becomes a very different country.

European relations are very different relations with you and will have to
be renegotiated. Trade agreement will have to be renegotiated. I mean,
already tonight, we are seeing that the pound, which today rallied to a
height that has not reached since 2008. It was dropped 6 percent. And
that is because of fears of what is going to happen with the U.K. economy.

So tomorrow morning, we are going to see panic in the U.K. Stock Market if
we are out. And I imagine that could spill eventually U.S. and actually
the Asian markets were already open and they have been falling already.
So, there is a lot of worry around the world about what this is going to

O`DONNELL: The landscape of the decision to leave is very different from
the decision decades ago to join, to join what was then called the common
market. The incentive back then was, we want to imitate this giant market
in the United States, where there are no tariffs between Mississippi and
Alabama, and you have this giant, free market – And all these tariffs
around Europe.

Now, all those tariffs were gone. All the ability to move from country to
country disappeared. It does not seem realistic to expect if Britain
leaves that those tariffs would go back up. There is a world trade
agreement in place that would leverage against that. I mean it would not
go back to what it was before the common one?

RUSHE: No, that is true. But if you look – the European Union has been
trying to negotiate a trade agreement with Canada for seven years, and it
still has not finalized it. So you have too much in the U.K. from
tomorrow, nobody really knows what is going to happen tomorrow.

But from tomorrow, if the U.K. is on its own, it is going to have to start
making those negotiations again. And, you know, piece by piece, rather
than part of trading block of 500 million people that is going be a large
economy. But 60 million people, not as powerful as Europe is together.

I mean, to me, one of the most disappointing parts of this whole debate has
been how little positivity is being turned for what the European Union has
done. Because if you think that this – this is a block of countries – it
made “Game of Thrones” look like “Dora the Explorer.”

O`DONNELL: Yes. Yes.

RUSHE: They would just fought and fought each other and we have had years
of peace, well there had been big problems and this has been a big
tremendous success in some ways. And none of that –

O`DONNELL: But that has taken for granted now. I mean, at the out-set of
this venture, the idea of this will also stop European wars. No one thinks
there could ever be a European war again, which is part of why leaving
becomes something you can talk about.

RUSHE: I think that is right. Yes.

O`DONNELL: Yes. All right. We got to leave it there for now. Dominic
Rushe, thank you very much for joining us tonight.

RUSHE: Thank you.

O`DONNELL: Coming up. Bernie Sanders` speech in New York City tonight and
Donald Trump`s appeal to Bernie Sanders` voters.




limited capabilities becoming president and that this guy is making the
cornerstone of his campaign is bigotry. So we have got to work tirelessly
to make sure that Trump is not president, but that is not good enough.
What we have got to do is to continue the vision of transforming this


O`DONNELL: That was some of Bernie Sander`s speech in New York City earlier
tonight. And here is some of Donald Trump`s interview with Lester Holt.


LESTER HOLT, NBC NEWS HOST: You have been critical of Hillary Clinton for
taking Wall Street money. Will you take Wall Street money?

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am taking very little. I will
tell you what we are doing -

HOLT: But you will take some?

TRUMP: I do not know. I mean, we will have to see who comes up.

HOLT: But you want to take the pledge not to take them all?

TRUMP: Let me tell you differently. I have turned down millions of people
from people, who I do not really want to give me money, OK?

HOLT: You made an appeal yesterday in your speech to Bernie Sanders`
voters to come over to team Trump. You are asking people who support a
democratic socialist, to come over –


HOLT: – to you a symbol of capitalism.

TRUMP: True. That is true. You know what?

HOLT: Who just told me that he may or may not take Wall Street money.

TRUMP: OK. Let me just tell you why. Because I am no fan of Bernie. And
I think his ideas, many of them, not so good. But he does have point that
she does not understand, and that most politicians do not understand. That
we are being ripped off on trade. That is a massive thing. And he
understands that.


O`DONNELL: Joining us now, Nina Turner, a former democratic state senator
for Ohio, who endorsed Bernie Sanders for president. She introduced him at
his speech tonight in New York City. And you will be an elected Sanders
delegate at the convention.

NINA TURNER, (D) OHIO FMR. STATE SENATOR: If this is an elected, Lawrence.


TURNER: Absolutely.

O`DONNELL: Not a super delegate.

TURNER: Not a super delegate.

O`DONNELL: So you listen to Donald Trump saying he - trying to appear to
Sanders` voters and your reaction as well.

TURNER: Well, he says he is a not a fan of the senator. I am here to say,
breaking news, the senator is not a fan of his either. I mean, I know
there are some Bernie or bust out there, but I seriously doubt that any of
them would go to Mr. Trump. A lot of them are talking about third party.

He is really the antithesis of all that Senator Sanders has been fighting
for. Anybody that says that the working poor in this country makes too
much money. He is not talking to a Sanders supporter.

O`DONNELL: And Bernie Sanders is very specifically went after Donald Trump
in that speech tonight. If you are a Sanders supporter listening to that
speech tonight, Bernie Sanders left no room if you are going to vote for
Donald Trump.

TURNER: No doubt. None at all. He is going to continue – he has been
saying that for quite some time too, Lawrence.


TURNER: Even before we got to this moment with the math. He has been
saying all along that Mr. Trump is not fit to be president of the United
States of America, and that is not going to change.

O`DONNELL: What about that overlap that Donald Trump says he sees on the
issue of trade? That seems to be just about the only issue that there is
any kind of vote collapse.

TURNER: Yes, and that is real and we cannot ignore. I am from the great
state of Ohio. And those trade deals really hurt the working class and
states like mine and states like Wisconsin. He may have some crossover,
but that might not necessarily mean that they are Sanders supporters, those
might be Reagan democrats, if you will. Those blue collar, especially
white males, who have really lost out in that industry.

So he does have something there. Democrats cannot take hi, for granted,
Lawrence. No matter what we say, being totally anti-Trump is not going to
get us there. We have to be pro the working class, pro the voting rights
acts, pro young people, coupled with the fact that we have to fight very
hard to make sure that he is not president of the United States of America.

O`DONNELL: And on the trade issue, Hillary Clinton eventually join Bernie
Sanders on those issues.

TURNER: It took awhile.

O`DONNELL: Agreeing with his critique of NAFTA and eventually opposing
specific partnership that she had originally favor.

TURNER: The senator pushed her there. I doubt that she would have gotten
there on her own, but yes, she is there now.

O`DONNELL: All right. We are going to have to leave it there tonight.
Nina Turner gets tonight`s “Last Word.” Great to see you here.

TURNER: You too, Lawrence.

O`DONNELL: Chris Hayes is up next.


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