The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell, Transcript 4/12/2016

Guests:
David Corn, Rory Cooper, Ken Vogel, Hugh Hewitt, April Ryan, Tavis Smiley
Transcript:

Show: THE LAST WORD WITH LAWRENCE O`DONNELL
Date: April 12, 2016
Guest: David Corn, Rory Cooper, Ken Vogel, Hugh Hewitt, April Ryan, Tavis
Smiley


RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST: That does it for us tonight, we will see you
again tomorrow, now it`s time for THE LAST WORD with Lawrence O`Donnell,
good evening Lawrence.

LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: Welcome back, Rachel.

MADDOW: Thank you very much.

O`DONNELL: We got some breaking news while you were addressing the nation
about soup.

MADDOW: OK –

(LAUGHTER)

O`DONNELL: Marco Rubio tip-toeing ever closer to an endorsement, and
really in effect, it is an endorsement.

MADDOW: That is a better story than the soup.

O`DONNELL: Yes –

MADDOW: I`ll give you that –

O`DONNELL: And could be. He is actually number three in delegates. He
has more delegates than John Kasich –

MADDOW: Than John Kasich –

O`DONNELL: So –

MADDOW: Yes –

O`DONNELL: He can hand his delegates to someone else in the mix, this
could get really interesting.

MADDOW: Also cream of mushroom is disgusting.

(LAUGHTER)

O`DONNELL: You know, Rachel, I sometimes dine after the show –

MADDOW: Yes –

O`DONNELL: And I sometimes have soup, not tonight, not tonight.

(LAUGHTER)

Thank you for that.

MADDOW: Thank you, Lawrence.

O`DONNELL: Thanks. Tavis Smiley is also going to join us tonight to talk
about what Bill O`Reilly said last night on his show when talking to Donald
Trump.

He said that African-Americans have trouble getting jobs, have a higher
unemployment rate because – this is O`Reilly saying this, they have
tattoos on their foreheads.

And he invoked Tavis Smiley when he was talking about that. Tavis Smiley
would get a chance to respond. And as I said to Rachel, we do have
breaking news tonight.

Marco Rubio began the day being mentioned as a possible vice presidential
candidate by Donald Trump.

And just minutes ago, he said he wants the Republican nominee to be the
most reliable conservative in the race, which means he is not endorsing
Donald Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PAUL RYAN (R-WI), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Count me out.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We`ve had enough losses with
Romney type, so the stiffs that can`t get elected –

RYAN: You should only choose from a person who is actually participated in
the primary.

TRUMP: But I`m in first place by a lot. Millions and millions of votes.

STEVE KORNACKI, MSNBC: These are voters who define themselves in
opposition to the establishments.

TRUMP: These are my people.

(CHEERS)

These are my people.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you ran with him?

GOV. JOHN KASICH (R), OHIO: Zero chance.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Zero chance?

KASICH: Yes.

TRUMP: Our Republican system is absolutely rigged. It`s a phony deal.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Political parties aren`t the government. They`re
semi-private clubs.

If they wanted, they could use a sorting hat to pick their nominees.

(LAUGHTER)

Yes, slither in.

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: I think the vote is the thing that you count, right? The vote. The
party is playing dirty.

JIMMY KIMMEL, COMEDIAN & TELEVISION HOST: Whatever (INAUDIBLE) if Donald
Trump doesn`t win, he`s going to sue all of us.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Remember President Seward, William Seward the great
emancipator, the great Republican president who freed the slaves and won
the civil war?

That`s the way history might be written today if the Republican Party was
playing by Donald Trump`s rules in 1860.

When Abraham Lincoln came from behind and snatched the Republican
nomination away from William Seward on the third ballot at the Republican
convention.

New York Senator William Seward arrived at the Republican convention in
Chicago with way more delegates than anyone else, including of course, the
New York delegation which was the biggest delegation at the convention in
those days.

And by Donald Trump`s rules, Republicans who arrive at the convention with
the most delegates, even if it`s not a majority should get the nomination
especially New Yorkers who arrive at the Republican convention with the
most delegates.

On the first delegate ballot, Senator Seward got 173 and a distant second
place finisher Abraham Lincoln got 102.

By the third ballot, it was a landslide for Lincoln, an outcome Donald
Trump now calls a crime against democracy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: The RNC; the Republican National Committee, they should be ashamed
of themselves for allowing this kind of crap to happen.

I can tell you that. They should be ashamed of themselves because it has
nothing to do with democracy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: William Seward was a bit more matured than Donald Trump and he
soon made his peace with Abraham Lincoln and became President Lincoln`s
Secretary of State.

Donald Trump now sounds like he`s trying to make peace with some of his
Republican opponents.

In an interview with columnist Christine Powers, he says he has been
considering Scott Walker, Marco Rubio and John Kasich as potential vice
presidential running mates.

Upon hearing that, John Kasich said there was zero chance of him running
with Donald Trump.

Scott Walker laughed it off, saying, “I can`t even fathom that, it`s almost
breath-taking that I was listening in the first place.”

But Marco Rubio said this about that possibility last month.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: I`m not interested in being Donald Trump`s
or anybody`s else`s vice president.

That`s not what I`m aiming at.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: (INAUDIBLE). Tonight in his first interview since dropping out
of the Republican presidential race, Marco Rubio stopped just short of
endorsing Ted Cruz saying this –

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUBIO: I want the Republican nominee to be a conservative, and in my view
at this moment, of the candidates that are still actively campaigning, the
only one that fits that criteria is Ted Cruz.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: They all know that the vice presidential nomination under
Donald Trump ticket is, according to the polls a guaranteed footnote in
American political history.

Who was Donald Trump`s vice presidential candidate when he lost all 50
states in the presidential election of 2016?

The “Stop Trump” Super PACs that have been funding television attack ads
against Donald Trump are now funding efforts to stop Trump through the
delegate selection process that Donald Trump still doesn`t seem to
understand.

“POLITICO” reports anti-Trump billionaires are funding ground operations in
an increasing number of states to try to ensure the selection of national
convention delegates who oppose Trump.

The strategy is being executed by the anti-Trump Our Principles PAC which
has a – which has a stated goal of blocking the bombastic billionaire from
clenching the GOP presidential nomination before the party`s convention in
July.

The “Never Trump” PAC is going to release this ad tomorrow accusing Donald
Trump of stealing funding meant for businesses hurt on 9/11.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC)

TRUMP: I have a lot of property down there, but it was unfortunately
affected by what happened to the World Trade Center.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Donald Trump made his first visit to the 9/11 Memorial last
weekend nearly five years after it opened.

Tonight, the Trump campaign released a radio ad that it says will be
running in New York, but the campaign refuses to say – refuses to say how
much radio time they`ve actually purchased.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

TRUMP: I am Donald Trump and I`m running for president and I love New
York. Everybody knows that.

When it comes to New York values, other candidates do not like us. Our
trade deals are a disaster.

I`m going to bring back jobs from Mexico, from China, from Japan, from all
over. I propose the biggest tax cut of anybody running for president.

I`m going to save Medicare and Social Security, it`s going to be solid with
me. Obamacare which is costing a fortune and doesn`t work will be repealed
and replaced.

Our military will be bigger, better and stronger than ever before. We`ll
knock out ISIS fast and our vets will be taken care of.

And I`ll protect our Second Amendment. I`ll create strong borders and
we`re going to build a wall and yes, Mexico will pay for that wall.

Please, go out and vote on Tuesday, I`ll never let you down. We are going
to make America great again.

I`m Donald Trump, candidate for president, and I approve this message.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Joining us now, Rory Cooper, managing director at Purple
Strategies and a senior adviser for the “Never Trump” Super PAC.

Ken Vogel, chief investigative reporter for “POLITICO”, and David Corn,
Washington Bureau chief for “Mother Jones” and an Msnbc political analyst.

Gentlemen, I want to get to the breaking news that we have, which is Marco
Rubio coming one word short of endorsing Ted Cruz.

Didn`t actually use the word endorse. David Corn, the way I look at
presidential candidates like Marco Rubio is, there`re always presidential
candidates.

And the calculation he has to make tonight is, assuming the Republican
nominee is headed for defeat in November, which is the bet you would place
right now, looking at the one-on-one match-ups with either Hillary Clinton
or Bernie Sanders.

Who should I Marco Rubio endorse now in order to preserve my status as a
presidential candidate four years from now.

And it looks like Ted Cruz would be the way for him to go.

DAVID CORN, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, MOTHER JONES: Well, Mo Udall, you
remember him, the Congressman from Arizona who ran for president in the
`70s said the only cure for presidential fever is embalming fluid.

(LAUGHTER)

O`DONNELL: Yes –

CORN: So, all right, so, you want the other presidential bug, it never
goes away and it`s pretty fair to judge anybody who`s run for president on
the basis of what they`re doing in terms of their next run for the
presidency.

What`s going to happen – I don`t see a way around it. Maybe Ken and
others and the panel will do.

That there`s going to be a civil war in the Republican Party. It may even
be a three-way civil war, depending what happens at the convention.

Trump either wins and the social conservatives and the establishment people
run away, Trump is kicked out, he goes to the pitch box.

If Cruz is denied the nomination, the social conservatives and Christian
right, they go berserk.

So, this is going to be really ugly, I see no positive outcome. So, Marco
Rubio and anybody else who wants to sort of look at what happens after the
zombie apocalypse of the Republican convention.

It`s you know – now, can start figuring out what – who may be left as a
base for the party, for anybody who wants to run again four years down the
road.

O`DONNELL: And Rory Cooper, if you`re Marco Rubio and you`re looking at
this nomination cycle, one way of looking at it is who do I not want to run
against four years ago – four years from now.

Who would I like to see get this nomination go down in flames and not be
around four years from now. And it seems to me, that would be Ted Cruz.

RORY COOPER, MANAGING DIRECTOR, PURPLE STRATEGIES: No, I think it`s less
calculating than that, Lawrence.

Look at – if you look at Marco, you look at Speaker Ryan, some of his
comments lately.

You look at Republican leaders, who have, you know, really been a part of
the conservative movement.

Who have been pushing conservative principles, the bedrock of what
Republican Party is for years.

They`re looking to save the values and the principles of the party right
now. I don`t think that anyone is looking four years out, who they`re
going to be running against.

I think they`re looking at, what does it mean to be a Republican? And David
is right in a sense that, listen, it`s not going to be pretty in Cleveland.

There is a debate right now over the fundamental – the fundamental idea of
what it means to be a conservative, of what it means to be a Republican.

Donald Trump is going to lose that battle. And after that battle has taken
place, then we will get into the general election.

I do believe that in this political time, we have short memories and it`s
going to be hopefully the Republican nominee who is not Donald Trump`s job
to take on Hillary Clinton who is, by the way, no strong frontrunner
herself.

O`DONNELL: Ken Vogel –

KEN VOGEL, CHIEF INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, POLITICO: Including possibly
Marco Rubio. I mean, if –

O`DONNELL: Yes –

VOGEL: You do head to a contested convention, Marco Rubio as you mentioned
in the intro has more delegates than John Kasich who is still in the race.

So, it`s certainly possible that he could be looking at something nearer
term than the 2020 race.

Another thing that he could potentially be looking at, we`re talking about
Rubio and his comments, his warm comments for Cruz, is a potential of
running for governor in Florida, something that has been talked about as a
possibility.

So, not to say that Marco Rubio is entirely calculating, I do agree that
there is an element to his feelings about the best direction of the
Republican Party.

Which is right now in crisis, I agree with David on that. But there are
also near-term possibilities for Marco Rubio in this debate.

O`DONNELL: And you know, there is a way, you know, don`t have to be too
Machiavellian about this, although I am, that everyone can be right here.

Where Rory, where it – Ted Cruz actually is who Marco Rubio thinks he`s
the best fit for the party, and who he finds more lines of agreement with
than John Kasich.

That`s possible –

COOPER: Well, the –

O`DONNELL: As well as – as well as there could be, you know, four years
down the road, a good benefit for him to have Ted Cruz –

COOPER: Right –

O`DONNELL: Out of the way. Let`s take a quick look at the delegate-count
as it stands tonight in Republican race.

Donald Trump at 756, Ted Cruz at 545, Marco Rubio at 172, John Kasich at
143.

And David Corn, if Marco Rubio can talk 172 delegates into walking over
into the Ted Cruz camp, we got ourselves something really close to a tie
tonight at the top of that delegate-count.

CORN: And that could be a big “if”. You know, people tend to think of
delegates as maybe bit coins who can be easily –

O`DONNELL: Yes –

CORN: Traded amongst players. When actually, a lot of delegates don`t
really care about the people they`re delegates for.

A lot of them are party regulars who want to get to the convention and
they`ve been put on the ballot locally or sometimes even after the
elections happen in order to get that free trip to Cleveland.

Good luck with that –

COOPER: David, I actually – I actually don`t think that`s the case here
though. If you look at the way –

CORN: But let me just finish up –

COOPER: If you look at –

CORN: But I want to say is, that I got – in some cases, delegates will be
loyal, care about the people they`re pledged to.

But in a lot of cases they may not be. So, it`s hard to say one-for-one
that Rubio with a snap of his fingers can move 172 delegates from column A
to column B.

COOPER: Right –

O`DONNELL: Rory, go ahead –

COOPER: But if – well, thanks, Lawrence. If you look at what Trump needs
to get right now, he needs to get all delegates about 162 to avoid going to
the second ballot.

That is almost an insurmountable challenge for Donald Trump. So, what
we`re talking about is what happens on ballot number two, not ballot number
one.

That`s where those delegates come into play. And what you`re seeing on the
Ted Cruz campaign has been a very ambitious strategy to make sure that the
delegates who are unbound on ballot two and ballot three are going to be
there in his camp.

What we`re doing at the “Never Trump” PAC and the groups like ours is to
make sure that we are taking a very precise and targeted approach to make
sure that Donald Trump makes it to that second ballot after he gets his
high water mark.

That`s why people are going to nevertrump.com to support those efforts,
because that`s how we get Donald Trump out of the second ballot which he
ultimately will lose.

And those delegates do care.

O`DONNELL: And Ken Vogel, you have some breakthrough reporting, and
“POLITICO” is showing exactly how the “Stop Trump” movement is working at
the delegate level.

You`ve got some details that we haven`t seen before.

VOGEL: Yes, that`s right, Lawrence. This is really sort of unprecedented
for an outside money group, a Super PAC.

Of course, Super PACs have only been around since 2010, so, this is only in
the second presidential cycle, and the first really compared to the
presidential primary that we`ve seen since that.

But there`s actually a movement by this Our Principles PAC to play in the
delegate selection process, to go into these states, try to figure out who
these delegates are loyal to and steer attendees to vote for delegates who
will support someone other than Trump.

O`DONNELL: And you`ve got – you`ve got them at phone banks calling up
these potential delegates all over the country, asking them how they feel
about the different candidates.

Fascinating read Ken Vogel in “POLITICO”, I want to take a look at it.
Rory Cooper, Ken Vogel, David Corn, thank you all for joining us tonight,
really appreciate it.

VOGEL: Thank you –

COOPER: Thanks, Lawrence –

O`DONNELL: Coming up, Paul Ryan says no way, not running for president.
You listen to the words he used.

You decide, does he really mean it? Radio host Hugh Hewitt will join us to
react to the Paul Ryan breaking news and some of that Marco Rubio breaking
news.

And last night Bill O`Reilly brought up Tavis Smiley when talking to Donald
Trump. And when Bill O`Reilly offered his theory of why unemployment being
all about tattoos on black men`s foreheads.

That`s why they can`t get jobs. Tavis Smiley will join us and his reaction
to that.

And Hillary Clinton goes after Bernie Sanders. If you listen to Hillary
Clinton, you would think that guns from Vermont are a major crime problem
in New York, but the people fighting crime in New York don`t think so.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: Conservative radio talk-show host Hugh Hewitt will join us next
to discuss this breaking news about Marco Rubio kind of almost endorsing
Ted Cruz.

And Paul Ryan`s statement today that he absolutely will not be a candidate
for president at the Republican convention. That`s next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUBIO: I want the Republican nominee to be a conservative, and in my view
at this moment of the candidates that are still actively campaigning, the
only one that fits that criteria is Ted Cruz.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Joining us now, Hugh Hewitt; conservative radio talk show host
with the “Salem Radio Network”.

Hugh, that`s a bit of breaking news there. He said, I want the nominee to
be a conservative.

He didn`t quite use that word endorse. How far away from endorse do you
think Marco Rubio is tonight with Ted Cruz?

HUGH HEWITT, RADIO HOST: Not very far, that is breaking news. The context
of course, he made that announcement on Mark Levin TV –

O`DONNELL: Yes –

HEWITT: A private paid for channel. Mark Levin is one of the only major
conservative talkers to have actually endorse.

I haven`t endorsed, Rush hasn`t endorsed, I try and stay switched to him.
But Mark Levin is a 100 percent with Ted Cruz.

So, for Senator Rubio to drive out to southern Virginia or south of the
Beltway into Virginia, 40 minutes and sit down with Mark Levin on his new
television show and say I want it to be the real conservative.

That`s an endorsement in all but name. And so, I think it is very
significant.

You led with the right story tonight, because if you start to think about a
Cruz-Rubio ticket, that puts Florida in play, it puts a lot of Latinos back
in play who have not previously been targeted by a lot of Republican media
or strategists.

And there`s a new book out by Ed Morrissey called “Going Red”, which is
about the centrality of the Spanish-speaking voting population.

That`s some pretty impressive ticket, so Marco Rubio made some news
tonight. That didn`t do it.

O`DONNELL: Also making news today, Paul Ryan insisting that he will not
under any circumstances at the convention be the guy who tries to emerge as
the miracle savior of the Republicans.

He in effect echoed LBJ back in `68 when President Johnson said that he
would not seek, would not accept the Democratic nomination for president.

Paul Ryan said “I do not want nor will accept the Republican nomination.”
That of course, Hugh, wasn`t good enough for the reporters there.

So, Luke Russert, of course, tried to really nail this down, and I think he
did get some more clarity on it.

Let`s listen to the exchange with Luke Russert.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LUKE RUSSERT, NBC NEWS: A lot of people said, hey, this is exactly what he
said about becoming speaker and then he ended up taking the job.

What do you say to people that are completely skeptical of you, and say
you`re just going to get back into the system for you –

RYAN: Apples and oranges. Luke, those are apples and oranges. Being
speaker of the house is a far cry from being president of the United
States.

Specifically, because I was already in the house. I`m already a
Congressman. So, I was asked by my colleagues to take a responsibility
within Congress that I`ve already been serving in from the one that I had.

That is entirely different than getting the nomination for president of the
United States by your party without even running for the job.

So, completely non (INAUDIBLE) comparison in my book.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Hugh, I thought the Paul Ryan tries-to-grab-the-nomination
story has never made sense to me.

Because it seems very clear that if Paul Ryan were to do that, he would be
doing it in a world of Republican disaster where he would know it would be
impossible for him to win the White House through that route.

HEWITT: Well, that`s the 20th time according to the “Washington Post” that
Paul Ryan has said he`s not running for president.

The 19th time was on my radio show last Monday. But I`d point out,
Lawrence, nobody knows what`s going to happen in Cleveland.

Godzilla could come out of the lake(ph) area and step on the Rock and Roll
hall of fame. We really – the Browns could have a good draft.

Anything could happen this Summer in Cleveland. We can`t rule anything
out. If in fact, we get gear-grinding, if we get deadlock, and you`ve got
Donald Trump who is the frontrunner – and that was a good radio ad that
you played earlier, very powerful ad.

If he`s at 850 and Ted Cruz is at 875 and John Kasich is hanging around at
400-500.

And on your third or fourth ballot, you`ve got the wheels that are locked
up and smoke is coming out of everybody`s ears, you start looking around
for who can step into that.

And if not immediately pass former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, at
least have a credible campaign in the Fall.

Everybody thinks Speaker Ryan. He`s trying to throw water on that fire.
It`s not easily put out because a lot of people think the scenario I just
laid out is in fact very plausible because Trump delegates are as loyal to
Trump as Cruz delegates are to Cruz.

Once you get past ballot three and then you`re into – you know, there`s
some pretty famous conventions out there that go 20, 30, 50 ballots.

You mentioned Lincoln at the beginning, that was only three. That was kind
of a small dust up –

O`DONNELL: Yes –

HEWITT: In Wigwam, Chicago. If you go 20, it`s a meltdown and people
start drinking heavily in Cleveland, that could go anywhere.

O`DONNELL: Yes, and – but Hugh, the thing is, if there`s a Republican
presidential nomination to want, it seems to me it`s want the one four
years from now.

This one already is such a devalued hunk of political currency, it could be
the end of Paul Ryan`s career, would be, if he took that nomination and
lost in the general election.

HEWITT: No, I disagree here. Because I go back to what I view as the
essential weakness of Secretary Clinton`s campaign.

The fact that Bernie Sanders could beat her in New York, the fact that
she`s got an age gap with Sanders which is triple digits.

The fact that she has a – she can`t win the FBI primary, Larry, she can`t
put that one away.

And so she`s got an essentially weak candidacy and in the back of Speaker
Ryan`s mind, is the fact that you don`t get offered this very much.

And so, he can say it 20 more times, he can say it 40 times, but if the
wheels have come off in Cleveland, and you`ve got a train wreck and all the
cards are up.

Anything could happen. You could get Romney nominated. You could get
Nikki Haley nominated, you can get Scott Walker out of – reanimated and
running again.

Anything could happen.

O`DONNELL: All right, this is what it`s come to. I believe Paul Ryan
meant what he said today and Hugh Hewitt is not so sure.

That`s where we are tonight. Hugh, thank you very much for joining us
tonight, really appreciate it.

HEWITT: Thanks, Lawrence.

O`DONNELL: Coming up, Bill O`Reilly and that question he asked Donald
Trump last night about black unemployment and tattoos on the forehead.

He used Tavis Smiley`s name and he was talking about that. Tavis will join
us. And Hillary Clinton gets an important endorsement in the fight for New
York.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: The black unemployment rate is higher than the white
unemployment rate. And, Bill O`Reilly last night seemed to think that,
that is all about tattoos on the forehead. Tavis Smiley will join us to
react to that.

And, Hillary Clinton seems to thinks if you just stop that massive flow of
illegal guns from Vermont, the New York crime rate would drop. New York
cops do not think so. But, first here is what it looked like today on the
campaign trail.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Who is making you feel confident about the
primary?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: That is a hard question.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: I am really undecided about who to vote for.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am in first place by a lot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: What is it about Trump`s message that you
like?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: He is a little feisty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Come on!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: But he has got the right idea.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: I kind of like some of the things that Trump is
saying, but he gets off on some things that are really weird too, you know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: The RNC, they should be ashamed of themselves for allowing this
kind of crap to happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARRY KING, LATE NIGHT TALK SHOW HOST: The Donald is – he is Donald.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOY REID, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT: Do you have a candidate that you like.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Yes.

REID: Who is that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Hillary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Her whole life has been one big lie.

BILL CLINTON, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: She is better qualified to be
president for this time than I was when I ran.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: She has been aggressively going after
Senator Sanders essentially trying to paint him as not ready.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (I-VT) DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Does
anybody seriously believe that you can be an agent of change.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KASIE HUNT, MSNBC POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Pretty direct hit on Hillary
Clinton.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: If you are taking money from the most powerful special interests
in this country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Clinton`s campaign is taking this pretty seriously.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. JOHN KASICH, (R-OH) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: As candidates wallowed in
the mud.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Ted Cruz says Trump is just a soar looser.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KASICH: Calling each other liars.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Lying Ted Cruz.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KASICH: Those who continuously push that type of behavior are not worthy
of the office they are seeking.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: That is right. Lying Ted.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Who is the Republican Party and how can they
try to win in the fall?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PAUL RYAN, (R-WI) SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Let me be clear.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: He has said no repeatedly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Does that mean we could see someone like Scott
Walker, Marco Rubio or Jeb Bush back here.

RYAN: I am not going to foreclose anybody`s option.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Of the 50 states, Hawaii contributes the fewest guns that are
used in crimes in other states obviously, because an ocean separates Hawaii
from the rest of those states. For the rest of the 49 states, Vermont
contributes the fewest guns used in crimes in other states.

Vermont just is not part of the problem of guns being used in crimes in
other states, but someone on the Clinton campaign came up with an obscure
and useless fact to try to blame gun crime in New York on Vermont.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He frequently says, “Well,
you know, I represent Vermont. It is a small, rural state. We have no gun
laws.” Here is what I want you to know, most of the guns that are used in
crimes and violence and killings in New York come from out of state. And
these state that has the highest per capita number of those guns that end
up committing crimes in New York come from Vermont.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: In 2014, there were 7,686 guns used in crimes in New York.
4,585 of those guns were traced by the ATF. Fifty five came from Vermont,
55. And, there is no indication that any of those guns from Vermont were
actually fired. The data does not include that kind of information.

The number one state, besides New York for firearms recovered in New York,
is Virginia, the 395 guns found in 2014. The number one source state for
guns nationwide is of course the biggest state, California, which was the
source of 17,000 of 170,000 guns recovered and traced in 2014.

We will see what Hillary Clinton says when she gets to the California
campaign about if we could just stop evil California from sending all those
guns out into America. Kasie Hunt was with Bernie Sanders today on the
campaign trail and joins us with the latest.

HUNT: Lawrence, good evening. A lot of sharp jabs traded back and forth
on the democratic side over the course of the last 24 hours. Bernie
Sanders` campaign stepping it up kind of trying to prove that he really was
not going to take these hits from Hillary Clinton.

But now in a little bit more of a measured way. Not going so far as to
talk about how she is not qualified, instead of kind of putting a sharper
point on the things that he has been saying for the past couple of months.
He did put out a press release saying that there is a credibility gap for
Secretary Clinton.

And, that was enough to set Clinton`s personal aide, Nick Merrill, off on a
little bit of a tweet storm saying that he thinks it is very clear that
Bernie Sanders is making a character oriented attack. And, I think if you
take the lens back a little bit and think about this more broadly it shows
you how New York really is a crucible for Bernie Sanders.

It is not just a must win, it is a really a test of his campaign in a way
that he has not been tested before. His campaign, both his staff and the
candidate himself and you can see Sanders himself more fired up on the
campaign trail today.

Basically, yelling that Donald Trump would never be president and saying
that, that was because Sanders was polling ahead of him by double digits.
Again, making this argument that Sanders is the best person to beat Donald
Trump. But at the end of the day, there is some questions about whether he
can really pull this out. Lawrence.

O`DONNELL: Kasie Hunt, thanks.

Tonight, Hillary Clinton received a big endorsement from the New York Daily
News. The paper`s editorial board called Hillary Clinton, “A Super
Prepared Warrior Realist.” Joining us now, April Ryan, the White House
Correspondent And Washington Bureau Chief For the American Urban Radio
Networks.

April, use of the word warrior in an endorsement for the democrat, who is
running against kind of the peace candidate Bernie Sanders who still wants
to make something of Hillary Clinton`s willingness to go to war in Iraq.
If Hillary could have edited that editorial, I assume she would have like
taken out the word warrior there.

APRIL RYAN, AMERICAN URBAN RADIO NETWORKS: I do not know. You know, some
people want a hawkish person and other people want a dove. And, I think
that Hillary Clinton is accepting for the most part both sides.

I have been talking a lot to her camp recently. And, I even talked to her
Sunday in Baltimore. She has been getting a lot of endorsements. She even
got an endorsement, Sunday, from the Elijah Cummings.

O`DONNELL: Yes.

RYAN: Congressman Elijah Cummings out of Maryland, who sat on that
Benghazi hearing, got some major endorsement for her. Hillary Clinton is a
woman who knows both sides. She knows war and she knows peace. She was a
woman of peace. She was the secretary of state for Barack Obama.

And, I think she is embracing of both sides, even though it may not – the
visual and the sound may not be as palatable as some would like, but I
think she wants people to know that if that 3:00 a.m. call comes, she can
be a warrior.

O`DONNELL: And, Bernie Sanders, what do you see as the future of that
campaign if he does not come out in New York with a win?

RYAN: Well, Bernie Sanders has momentum behind him nonetheless even if he
does not. I mean, this is Hillary Clinton`s stomping ground. She got her
offices in Brooklyn. She lives here in New York. I mean, New Yorkers love
her.

And, yes, he is a native. He was born here, but also his wife had an
advocacy job in Harlem, not far from Sylvia`s Restaurant. So, he is very
familiar here, but this is her home turf. He has had momentum.

If he loses New York, it is a big loss, but he is going fight until the
very end. And, I mean, we are talking about this contested republican
convention. We could have something with the democratic convention in July
as well. I think July is going to be a hot month for both Bernie.

O`DONNELL: June 7th, California will decide who that nominee is. We have
got a hot tweet from – breaking news tweet from Reince Priebus. It is
actually what he said last night. He is saying it again.

He is saying, “The nomination process has been known for a year and beyond.
It is the responsibility of the campaigns to understand it. Complaints
now, give us all a break.” He basically tweeted the same thing 24 hours
ago. I guess he is going to tweet that every night that Donald Trump is on
the campaign complaining.

RYAN: Yes. It is in response to Donald Trump who is crying foul. I mean,
he has been Superman. We have not had any Kryptonite that we have been
able to cripple him with. And, now he is crying foul and he has a major
megaphone and people are hearing it.

Reince Priebus is the head of the Republican National Committee had to come
out and speak and say, “Look, this is the process. You may cry foul, but
this is what is happening. It has been in place.” So, Donald Trump is
crying foul after he has been throwing some money water at people as well.

O`DONNELL: I like that. So, it turns out the rules are Donald Trump`s
kryptonite.

RYAN: Maybe so.

(LAUGHING)

O`DONNELL: That is right. April Ryan, thank you very much for joining us.

RYAN: Glad to be here.

O`DONNELL: Coming up, Jimmy Kimmel casts someone you would not expect, one
of the candidates, as Captain America.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: Do you ever think of Bernie Sanders as Captain America? I
never have but Jimmy Kimmel does. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY KIMMEL, LATE NIGHT TALK SHOW HOST: There is some interesting
parallels between this presidential election and the movie, “Captain
America Civil War.” Both of them feature former friends who are now
enemies.

They both feature powerful men and women, who are also cartoon characters.
And, there is a lot of interest in both, so much so that Marvel decided to
weave the campaign into a new movie trailer. And, it works very well.
Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE NARRATOR: This summer an all American idealist faces off
against a diabolical billionaire.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: The American dream is the American nightmare.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: The American dream is dead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: Big money buys the elections.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I am really rich. I am sure of that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: Our campaign does not have a Super PAC.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I am in for about $35 million right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: Can I finish, please.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Excuse me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: Excuse me, I am talking.

TRUMP: Bing, bing, bang, bang. Bing, bing, bing.

CLINTON: (LAUGHING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE NARRATOR: America Civil War.

SANDERS: Can somebody attack me please?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O`DONNELL: I guess that was Hillary for a second there. Tavis Smiley
joins us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: You know how some Republicans always like to blame unemployment
on the unemployed? Well, last night, Bill O`Reilly blamed black
unemployment on tattoos on the forehead. That is next.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: And, now for tonight`s “Last Word.” Last week on Bill
O`Reilly`s show, Tavis Smiley called Donald Trump, quote, “A racial
arsonist setting fire everywhere he goes.” Bill O`Reilly then tried to
defend his longtime friend, Donald Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL O`REILLY, FOX HOST OF “THE O`REILLY FACTOR” PROGRAM: All I can tell
you is I have known the man a long time and I have never seen him cast
aspersions at any group at all.

TAVIS SMILEY, PBS HOST: You might not have seen him, but the rest of the
country has.

O`REILLY: I have been around him much more.

SMILEY: But here is your problem. We are watching one Donald Trump on the
news every day. We watch him live on network television every day and
everybody who knows Donald Trump keeps saying to me and to all your viewers
that, that is not the Donald I know. Which Donald –

O`REILLY: Wait, wait. I do not know –

SMILEY: Who is the real Donald? Will the real Donald stand up?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: The real Donald appeared on Bill O`Reilly show last night and
this happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

O`REILLY: Now, the minorities. Let us talk about the minorities.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: I guess you know by know that any discussion between two old
white guys that begins with, “Now, the minorities. Let us talk about the
minorities” is not going to go well.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

O`REILLY: Now, the minorities. Let us talk about the minorities. I
defended you against Tavis Smiley last week and I did it because I know you
better than Tavis Smiley knows you. I do not even know if you know him at
all.

TRUMP: He does not know me at all.

O`REILLY: All right. OK.

TRUMP: I have never met him.

O`REILLY: Smiley brought in the fact that you were this racial arsonist.
That is what he used. And, I said, “Look, I have known the guy for 30
years and I have never seen any of that.”

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Bill O`Reilly then asked Donald Trump what his message to
African-American voters is. Donald Trump said his messages, “I am going to
bring back jobs.” In another words, the same message you have heard a
thousand times.

He is going to bring back jobs from China, from Mexico, of course Apple to
make their computers in the United States. Bill O`Reilly did not think
that would be enough.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

O`REILLY: But what about the grievance industry run by your friend Al
Sharpton where, you know, not only do you have to bring prosperity to all
Americans, not just blacks, but we owe them. We owe the African-Americans
because of the historical atrocities that they have had to live through,
their families, their ancestors. How are you going to deal with that?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: And, then, you know, Donald Trump said it is all about jobs, it
is all about jobs. And after that, Bill O`Reilly said the thing that
everyone has been talking about today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

O`REILLY: How are you going to get jobs for them? Many of them are ill-
educated and have tattoos on their foreheads and then, you know, how are
you going to – and I hate to generalized about it, but it is true. If you
look at all the educational statistics, how are you going to get jobs of
people who are not qualified for jobs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Donald Trump`s tattoos job message and Bill O`Reilly`s tattoos
on their foreheads became the most vivid imagery that Fox viewers were
given about why the black unemployment rate is higher than the white
unemployment rate.

Joining us now is Tavis Smiley, host of “Tavis Smiley on PBS. He is also
the author of the new book, “50 For Your Future: Lessons From Down The
Road.” Tavis, thank you very much for joining us tonight. As soon as I
saw that last night, I thought I have got to give Tavis the “Last Word”
tonight. Your reaction, just go ahead to what you have seen, anything you
want to react to that.

TAVIS SMILEY, PBS HOST OF “TAVIS SMILEY”: I stand by what I said earlier
that Donald Trump is a racial arsonist and even more sadly Bill O`Reilly is
a race baiter. This is a quintessential example of the mainstream media.
Certainly, Fox News coddling Donald Trump with these kinds of racist
remarks.

And, it is just sad to listen – you almost feel sorry for them when you
see that kind of white supremacist language on display. I just pushed them
higher on my prayer list, because it is just sickening and sad to see they
do not have the respect. They do not revel in the humanity and the dignity
of our fellow citizens and particularly African-Americans.

I have never seen a party launched that is imploding and self-sabotaging
the way they are. It is Shakespearian. It is Orwellian and it certainly
anti-American. And, to watch them talk about poverty as if poverty is
somehow color coded, and not an American catastrophe.

Poverty is now threatening our very democracy. It is now a matter of
national security and they keep talking about it as if it is a black
problem or a brown problem rather than an American problem. And, that is
why Donald Trump is not gaining traction with people of color and Bernie
Sanders message is getting through.

O`DONNELL: Tavis, the black unemployment rate as we know is always higher
than the white unemployment rate and you know there is plenty of people who
have done a lot of work trying to explain it. There is a lot of
explanation for it. Tattoos on the forehead do not explain 1 percent of
the black unemployment rate. Bill O`Reilly, that is all the explanation he
needs.

SMILEY: I have said for so many years, I believe this is every fiber of my
being, that every race ought to be judged by the best they have been able
to produce and not by the worst. Are there some gang members who have
tattoos on their head of all races? Absolutely.

These white supremacists who have tattoos on their forehead, they do not
factor into Bill O`Reilly`s equation. And, furthermore, if I would take as
I said to Bill last week, if I would to take the example of an unrepentant
Dylan Roof, who goes into a South Carolina Church and murders a significant
number of African-American and use that as the example for all white males
in this country he would not appreciate that.

But, yet you can choose a few brothers with tattoos on their foreheads, and
that becomes the mantra, that becomes the quintessential example of what
all black life is about. It is sick when you see this and they do not
understand why when you see a movement like Black Lives Matter come to the
for, because the respect and dignity and the humanity of black life just
does not exist.

O`DONNELL: And, Tavis, you know, as we know there has been some recent
studies coming out saying that if there is any indication on a resume that
can be read by the reader that this person might be black, that resume will
not get a call back and the resume that reads white either through name or
address, whatever it is, will get the call back.

So, O`Reilly ends his question about, you know, tattoos on the forehead by
saying how are you going to get jobs to people who are not qualified for
jobs. The people we see now in black unemployment is how do you get jobs
for people who are qualified for jobs.

SMILEY: That is exactly right. And, again, that is not just a black
problem, it is an American problem. There is so many people who have done
the right thing, played by the rules and through no fault of their own,
because of corporate greeds, shipping more jobs abroad, making more money
at home. All of us have been hit hard in this job market.

But, at the end of the day, if you cannot respect again – I repeat for the
third time, the humanity and dignity of black life. And, furthermore,
Lawrence, if you are not going to even campaign to that community, if you
are not going to make an overture to that community, your answer is jobs,
jobs, jobs to everybody, well, I think jobs with minimum wages gets thin.

But, at the end of the day, if you are not going to make them a priority,
if you do not say that black folks and the brown folks, that your votes
matter and here is an agenda that is in your best interests as opposed to
an agenda that is antithetical to your best interests, then how do you ever
get those votes.

O`DONNELL: Yes. I mean, and the point that you were trying to make to O`
Reilly last week, when you were on, is why should republicans – why do
they in effect run segregated campaigns –

SMILEY: That is right.

O`DONNELL: Segregated in terms of who they are trying to appeal to, which
voters they are trying to get?

SMILEY: It is abundantly clear who they are trying to appeal to. And, I
have said many times and I believe this. This 50 Things book is about how
you can a better person. How you can live a better and more authentic
life. But this campaign, Lawrence, as you know, is fundamentally about
what kind of country we are going to be.

Who are we really? We have grown up. We have grown older, but we have not
grown up. We have grown old but we have not grown wiser. Who are we as a
people. What kind of nation are we really going to be? That is
fundamentally what is at stake in this campaign.

O`DONNELL: Tavis Smiley gets tonight`s “Last Word.” Thank you, Tavis.

SMILEY: Thank you, Lawrence.

O`DONNELL: Chris Hayes is up next.


END

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