The Last Word With Lawrence O’Donnell, Transcript 12/8/2015

Guests:
Jonathan Allen, Nasser Weddady, Nicholas Kristof, Tayyib Rashid
Transcript:

Show: THE LAST WORD WITH LAWRENCE O`DONNELL
Date: December 8, 2015
Guest: Jonathan Allen, Nasser Weddady, Nicholas Kristof, Tayyib Rashid

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC: That does it for us tonight, we will see you again
tomorrow, now it`s time for THE LAST WORD with Lawrence O`Donnell, good
evening Lawrence.

LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, HOST, THE LAST WORD: Hey Rachel, you said this thing
on your show last night and you just did another version of it tonight.

It is a theory of the Trump campaign that I have been dying to talk to you
about for 24 hours. I have publicly via Twitter begged you to come on this
TV show tonight and talk about this theory of the Trump campaign.

Can you do it? Can you run across the hall?

MADDOW: Will there be snacks?

O`DONNELL: There`s a seat and the snacks are on the way.

MADDOW: OK, very good –

O`DONNELL: Yes –

MADDOW: I`ll be right there –

(LAUGHTER)

O`DONNELL: Thanks Rachel –

MADDOW: Thank you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you regret your ban on Muslims, which some people
think is Un-American?

DONALD TRUMP, CHAIRMAN & PRESIDENT, TRUMP ORGANIZATIONS & FOUNDER, TRUMP
ENTERTAINMENT RESORTS: Not at all, we have to do the right thing.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: We know how you make America
great again? Tell Donald Trump to go to hell.

CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC: Rarely has the American political establishment
such as it is sung in such a chorus.

REP. RAND PAUL (R-WI), SPEAKER, UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES:
What was proposed yesterday is not what this party stands for.

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R), KENTUCKY: It is completely and totally
inconsistent with American values.

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: It`s shameless and a dangerous
idea.

JEH JOHNSON, SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Working with the
Muslim community, not driving them into the shadows is absolutely critical
to our national security efforts.

JEB BUSH, FORMER FLORIDA GOVERNOR: These are dog whistle proposals to prey
on people`s fears and consume the news.

CONAN O`BRIEN, COMEDIAN & TELEVISION HOST: Yes, Trump`s statement was so
outrageous and so offensive, his poll numbers went up 20 points.

(LAUGHTER)

CHUCK TODD, MODERATOR, MEET THE PRESS: The problem is much bigger than the
Republican Party.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you a bigot?

TRUMP: Not at all. Probably the least of anybody you`ve ever met.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, JOURNALIST: You`re increasingly being compared to
Hitler. Does that give you any pause at all?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Donald Trump`s answer to George Stephanopoulos` question, does
it bother you to be compared to Hitler was no.

And so Donald Trump must have no problem with this front page of the
“Philadelphia Daily News” today which does exactly that.

Now, I believe that we are now watching the beginning of the beginning of
the end of Donald Trump`s presidential campaign.

Today, we have the frontrunner for the Republican nomination for president
being compared to Hitler in the mainstream American news media.

Now ask yourself, which nominee for president of either major party has
ever been compared to Hitler in the mainstream American news media?

The answer is, of course, none. No Democrat, no Republican nominee for
president has ever been compared to Hitler the way Donald Trump has been
compared to Hitler today.

Donald Trump is not going to pass through a brief phase of being compared
to Hitler and go on to win the Republican presidential nomination.

He will not ever be president, and he will not be the nominee of the
Republican Party. Republicans will come to their senses and will not allow
a candidate who has no problem being compared to Hitler to be their
candidate for president.

Now, every pundit in America would be joining me in predicting the collapse
of the Trump campaign today if they hadn`t already done that in the past
and been wrong.

They did it when he insulted John McCain for being a prisoner of war, and
by implication then insulted all American soldiers who`ve been prisoners of
war.

But Donald Trump`s poll numbers did not go down after that. And so the
pundits thought, there`s something that is impervious about this guy.

And it didn`t – the poll numbers did not go down as a result of any other
ugly, sexist, racist thing that he had said, but his poll numbers did not
go up either.

The people who shared Donald Trump`s many hatreds continue to tell
pollsters that they would vote for him for president, but he is not
converting anyone else.

And so he has hovered between 25 percent and 30 percent in national polls
of Republicans for a very long time now.

For Donald Trump to make those poll numbers go up, he would have to start
doing something different.

They don`t go up by doing more of the same and yet he just does more of the
same. The jet fuel of the Trump campaign is hatred, and yesterday Trump
offered America and the world his most hateful, Un-American,
unconstitutional idea yet.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of
Muslims entering the United States until our country`s representatives can
figure out what the hell is going on.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Yesterday before he said that, the polls were showing that the
Trump-hate campaign had gotten the candidate as far as hate could take him.

And when he needed something else, he went back to hate in a very big way.
Now why would he do that?

Why would a candidate who needs to push his own poll numbers in his own
party way up to where Hillary Clinton`s poll numbers are in her party.

Why would he do that same hateful, ugly thing that has kept his poll
numbers so much lower than Hillary Clinton`s for so long? Rachel offered an
intriguing theory about this last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MADDOW: This has been something that people have batted around all year
long. I think it`s time to look seriously at this question.

Which is the question of whether or not Mr. Trump is trying to blow up his
presidential campaign?

Has he been spooked by his own apparently impenetrable lead in the polls?
Is he trying to get himself effectively kicked out of the Republican Party
so there`s no longer a threat.

He might actually get nominated as that party`s nominee for president or
God forbid that he might win the office. And I don`t mean that in a joking
or flipping way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: I`m sure she doesn`t. But how does she mean it? She is here to
bat it around.

MADDOW: Yes –

O`DONNELL: This theory of he`s not really out there to win – Garrison
Keillor did a wonderful “Prairie Home Companion” on it with the Trump
impersonator called –

MADDOW: And Guy Noir –

O`DONNELL: Yes, Guy Noir –

MADDOW: Yes –

O`DONNELL: It`s been around, I`ve thought about it. I felt on days like -
- that I`ve seen it clearly. Let`s hear your version of it.

MADDOW: My version of it, I will – first, I have to give you the caveat
that I have no personal insight into Donald Trump`s psyche. That –

O`DONNELL: I`m afraid no one does.

(LAUGHTER)

MADDOW: No, nobody – I mean, we`ve both had conversations with people who
have like a deep sort of psychological profile of him.

And I know people who have known him in his business life who say listen,
he`s a, you know, malignant narcissist, and so therefore he thrives on
flattery and he sees it as the only truth in the world.

And this is all just about being praised and raising his profile and yes,
that`s a brand move, but mostly it`s about narcissism. OK, that`s the
psychological way that you do it.

I sort of feel like – I can`t imagine that he wants the actual job of
being president, even if he doesn`t necessarily mind the idea of running.

I think there is a risk that he can see as a smart man. I think there`s a
risk that he becomes president, if he`s going to get the nomination.

And there`s a very big risk of him getting the nomination right now. And I
think that is got to be terrifying to him.

And there`s no reason for him to keep bringing up the idea of the
Republican Party treating him fairly and the threat of him leaving the
Republican Party if they don`t treat him fairly.

If he weren`t looking for some way for the Republican Party to be, you
know, essentially kicking him out, for him to be able to blame them for why
he didn`t win.

O`DONNELL: So, which brings us to, you need a theory for the Trump
campaign.

MADDOW: Yes –

O`DONNELL: OK, my theory for the Hillary Clinton campaign, she wants to be
president.

MADDOW: Yes –

O`DONNELL: And so, why was she against the Keystone Pipeline? Well, it may
be because Bernie Sanders already was or it may be because she believes it
that it was also very good for her campaign.

It rationally makes sense within her campaign. Why is she against the
Trans-Pacific Partnership suddenly? After calling it a (INAUDIBLE) trade
agreements, that may be Bernie Sanders again.

That may be she`s arrived at a new view that all possible, but it`s good
for her campaign. Her campaign is rational in every minute of its
operation, my theory is she wants to win.

MADDOW: Right –

O`DONNELL: So –

MADDOW: Yes –

O`DONNELL: So we stare at Trump and we go what kind of nut would do this
if you`re trying to win? And he`s constantly doing these things –

MADDOW: Yes –

O`DONNELL: That are not about winning.

MADDOW: Well, there are about – but then they have the effect of pushing
him up further in the polls.

O`DONNELL: But –

MADDOW: I mean –

O`DONNELL: Within that really tiny, narrow range, the new poll has him at
27.

MADDOW: Yes –

O`DONNELL: You know, his – you know, it`s a very –

MADDOW: But that`s above –

O`DONNELL: Stable range –

MADDOW: That`s above the ceiling that everybody thought he was going to
have.

O`DONNELL: OK, let –

MADDOW: There`s going to be 20 percent, there`s going to be 25 percent,
there`s going to be 30 percent. And some polls he`s getting up there above
anything that anybody thought was a conceivable ceiling for him.

O`DONNELL: Let`s remember, there`s a great hidden thing in the Trump
polls, because the press is determined to pretend Bernie Sanders doesn`t
exist.

Bernie Sanders in his polling is polling higher than Donald Trump –

MADDOW: Head-to-head –

O`DONNELL: More voters – no, right now, Bernie has 28 percent of
Democrats which is more than 28 percent of Republicans because there are
more Democrats.

Bernie has more votes, actual voters saying I will vote for him than Donald
Trump does. Let`s look at this thing where Trump did his threat today
about, you know, hey, let`s show his tweet.

He said: “A new poll shows that 68 percent of my supporters would vote for
me if I departed the GOP and ran as an independent.”

I tweeted him right back saying, your accountants can explain to you that
that means for sure you`re going to lose.

Because he`s got 20 – let`s call it 30 percent –

MADDOW: Yes –

O`DONNELL: Right? Of the 28 percent of voters who are Republicans. Thirty
percent of 28 percent is 8.4 percent of American voters.

And about 30 percent of them say I wouldn`t vote for him –

MADDOW: Right –

O`DONNELL: If he was an independent, which leaves him – if he can hold on
to the rest somehow with 5.7 percent of the American voters.

If he carries out his big scary threat to run as an independent –

MADDOW: Or by the time he gets down to it, ultimately, there`s still –
what is it? Fourteen people running in the Republican field?

And he does have the lion`s share of that vote. At this point, he`s now
even being(ph) undecided, which was the great – which was the great
contender on the Republican side all this time.

I mean, there isn`t anybody – Ted Cruz is is within ten points of him, and
that`s a great victory for anybody in that race. He is on track to win the
Republican nomination, any way that you squint at it.

And if he is going to win the Republican nomination simply by historical
trends, there is a 50 percent chance he will win the presidency of the
United States.

And I think that scares him as much as it scare most of us. Not because he
thinks that he`s a –

(CROSSTALK)

O`DONNELL: Scaring the healthy part of his brain.

MADDOW: Well, he`s just – he`s not – can you imagine that he wants to do
that much work?

O`DONNELL: Right –

MADDOW: I mean, look what the presidency does to people who hold the job.
I mean, he doesn`t – I mean, you look at the way that he works now in his
business empire.

He`s got enough time for his business and have enough time to be running
his presidential –

O`DONNELL: Yes –

MADDOW: Campaign without his business empire feeling a dent. And so, I
think the prospect of actually running is scary to him.

There`s no reason as you completely – with mathematical precision.
There`s no reason for him to threaten to leave as an independent because he
wants to win.

There`s a reason for him to threaten to leave and run as an independent so
he faces no risk of winning. And that is where he`s at.

O`DONNELL: Oh, and then he gets to blame – because he has to blame
something else for him not being president –

MADDOW: I`m too good for the Republican Party –

O`DONNELL: He will blame this –

MADDOW: Too real for the Republican Party –

(CROSSTALK)

O`DONNELL: Return on him –

MADDOW: They kicked me out, I told them they had to treat me fairly, they
didn`t treat me fairly, and so I`m going to run as an independent, thus,
eliminating any chance that he might get the job, thus sliding himself back
to his day job while signing more books.

O`DONNELL: This fits a theory that`s been advanced in a roughly similar
shape by Stuart Stevens who run Romney`s campaign –

MADDOW: Yes –

O`DONNELL: Who`s been staring at Trump. And he`s been saying, Trump won`t
want to subject himself to voting outcomes in states that he might lose.

You know, and he just can`t stand the humiliation of those ballots coming
back where he has to go give a concession speech –

MADDOW: He needs to – yes –

O`DONNELL: He`ll find a way –

MADDOW: There needs to be a –

O`DONNELL: Out of that –

MADDOW: Process explanation for why –

O`DONNELL: Yes –

MADDOW: He didn`t win. It can`t be that he was running as the nominee and
lost, no way –

O`DONNELL: Yes –

MADDOW: It can`t be – and it can`t be that he was running as the nominee
and won because he doesn`t want the job. The job is too hard for him and
he knows that.

He has an easy life, he does not want a hard life.

O`DONNELL: He has no chance of beating Hillary Clinton in the current
polls, anyway, so there`s – I think America can relax –

MADDOW: Anybody who the Republican Party nominates has a 50-50 chance of
winning. And we – I mean, the campaign –

O`DONNELL: Because –

MADDOW: Style –

O`DONNELL: You never know, you just –

MADDOW: Because you never know, and –

O`DONNELL: Yes –

MADDOW: That`s why – that`s why the primary process matters in this
patriotic thing that we all ought to be paying attention to rather than
he`s laughing at, even on days like this when it is freaking hilarious.

O`DONNELL: Rachel, thank you for advancing this theory last night, and
excitingly so much –

(LAUGHTER)

And that`s print, I didn`t need all that script that I padded to get you
over here. That was fast –

MADDOW: I got a –

O`DONNELL: That was fast –

MADDOW: Hand truck and just –

O`DONNELL: Yes –

MADDOW: Rolled myself down the hall –

O`DONNELL: That was really fast.

(LAUGHTER)

Thank you Rachel –

MADDOW: Thank you, Lawrence –

O`DONNELL: Coming up, Donald Trump has given Hillary Clinton and Paul Ryan
something to agree about. And is Donald Trump now the Islamic State`s best
new recruiter?

“New York Times” Nicholas Kristof is here to discuss the effects of Trump`s
comments around the world.

And later, the Muslim Marine is here, former United States Marine and
combat veteran Tayyib Rashid will join us with his reaction to Donald
Trump`s latest outburst of hatred and madness.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: And now, a reading from “Donald Trump Is a Bad Person”. This
is an article today by Peter Suderman in “Reason Magazine”, reason.com;
which is a libertarian website.

Peter Suderman is a conservative writer. He says, “Can there be any doubt
now that Donald Trump is a fascist.

His declaration yesterday that he would close the United States to all
Muslim immigrants including tourists and Muslim American citizens abroad
trying to return home confirmed both his fascistic tendencies and his
undisguised bigotry and made something else clear in the process – that he
is simply a bad person.”

We actually had Peter Suderman booked on the show tonight but we ran out of
time. There will be other readings through the course of the evening of
Donald Trump is a bad person.

Other passengers coming up. Up next, Hillary Clinton versus Donald Trump.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RYAN: Normally, I do not comment on what`s going on in the presidential
election. I will take an exception today. This is not conservatism.

What was proposed yesterday is not what this party stands for and more
importantly, it`s not what this country stands for.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: That was the speaker of the house this morning; the person who
controls the outcome of all legislation that Congress passes, saying that
Congress would never pass a law banning Muslims from entering this country.

The Senate majority leader and minority leader said the same thing. Donald
Trump`s audience seems to believe that presidents are all powerful and can
do anything they want.

But Donald Trump`s profoundly Un-American idea would actually require a
vote of the Congress and not one member of the United States Senate is in
favor of Donald Trump`s idea.

Not one member of the House of Representatives is in favor of Donald
Trump`s idea and they`re in favor of some crazy ideas.

Of the 535 members of the house and Senate, Donald Trump couldn`t get one
vote, not one vote. Instead, this happened on the house floor today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It should be heartbreaking to every American that we
have a frontrunner in the presidential race that suggest there will be a
religious test for anybody who wishes to come to our shores.

It is an affront to the very principles upon which our nation was founded.
It is time that my side of the aisle has one less candidate in the race for
the White House.

It is time for Donald Trump to withdraw from the race.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: The world can relax, it`s not going to happen. And our
founding fathers made sure that it would not happen.

It`s an unconstitutional idea, one that the Supreme Court would overturn
unanimously if some future Congress made up entirely of the Trump family
decided to pass it.

Donald Trump`s hatred was not contagious in Washington today, not one
member of Congress supported Donald Trump.

And that`s today`s good news. We`re joined now by Msnbc`s Alex Wagner and
Jonathan Allen, political reporter and co-author of “HRC: State Secrets and
the Rebirth of Hillary Clinton”.

Alex Wagner, sanity –

ALEX WAGNER, MSNBC: Prevailed –

O`DONNELL: Prevailed in Washington today. There`s some nuts in the House
of Representatives. None –

(LAUGHTER)

WAGNER: There`s some crazy –

O`DONNELL: None –

WAGNER: Stuff –

O`DONNELL: None they have now proved as crazy as Donald Trump.

WAGNER: And isn`t that reassuring? I mean –

O`DONNELL: Yes –

WAGNER: So, yes –

O`DONNELL: I know –

WAGNER: One part of it –

O`DONNELL: That`s our new form of reassurance in the 21st century.

WAGNER: Yes, tearing up the –

O`DONNELL: Right –

WAGNER: Constitution –

O`DONNELL: Yes –

WAGNER: In favor of sort of bigoted ideas –

O`DONNELL: Right –

WAGNER: About religion, we`re not going to go there. But you know, you
take the winds where you can get them in this – in this –

O`DONNELL: Right –

WAGNER: House, Lawrence. I think it`s interesting, right? Because we`ve
long thought the house is the place where the crazy rhetoric goes to like
live and flourish.

And in fact, like I would have liked to see some of that rhetoric from the
mainstream establishment Republicans who were running for president.

The house Republican caucus is leading on this issue. It`s telling in
terms of just the compromises that I think this current crop of candidates
feel they have to make to maybe win over some sort of tailgaters of the
Donald Trump party – we`ll see.

O`DONNELL: All right, I want to listen to what I think is the best comment
of the day about this. Rahema Ellis, “Nbc News” spoke to some people in
New Jersey – Muslims who lived in New Jersey.

She got one man who I want to show here now and listen to what he said
about this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don`t need him to know the Islam. We don`t need him
to love the Islam. What I need him to know is just to know the
constitution of the law, the basic constitution of the law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: What better rebuke to Donald Trump that one of the people who
he lies about in New Jersey, his big lie about the thousands of people
cheering on 9/11.

But that man, Jonathan Allen knows more about the United States
constitution than Donald Trump does.

JONATHAN ALLEN, CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, VOX: It`s amazing, maybe
not surprising. Certainly if you – if you – if you – and I don`t know
that man`s citizenship or where he came from.

But if you become a citizen in the United States, often times you know the
constitution a lot better than the people who began life here in terms of
naturalized citizens.

Look, I think Donald Trump is trying to make America 17th century Europe
again, you know, with religious tests and persecution. And it`s not going
to fly.

I thought, you know, speaker Paul Ryan today had a pretty strong rebuke of
Donald Trump. I know the White House didn`t like it, didn`t think it was
strong enough, mad at him that he didn`t say that Trump couldn`t be the
president.

But you know, Paul Ryan has got a job or role within the Republican
National Convention. Makes it a little harder for him to come out in favor
or against any of the candidates.

And I thought what he said today, talking about the Muslim members of the
United States Congress to Democrats, and of course in the 2000 was a pretty
strong statement.

O`DONNELL: Let`s listen to what Hillary Clinton said about it today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: Some of his Republican candidates are saying that his latest
comments have gone too far. But the truth is, many of them have also said
extreme things about Muslims.

Their language may be more veiled than Trump`s, but their ideas are not so
different. They are all driving the exact narrative that Jihadists want to
advance.

That we are at war and not with barbarous, violent murderers, but with an
entire religion. This is a grave mistake.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Of course, Hillary wants us to think of all of the Republican
candidates as thinking the same thing Donald Trump says.

WAGNER: Now Hillary is going to owe Trump not a VP slot, but something at
the end of this –

O`DONNELL: Yes –

WAGNER: Right?

O`DONNELL: Yes –

WAGNER: I mean, it is a – it is such a boon to her campaign and she knows
the impossible position that they`re in, right? They can`t alienate someone
who`s –

O`DONNELL: Right –

WAGNER: Been the frontrunner for seven months. And yet they know there`s
no way they can win a general election standing behind even the faintest
shadow that Donald Trump has cast.

So, of course, she`s going to paint them with the broadest brush possible,
and specifically Marco Rubio.

I mean, I think if there`s anyone to really lose from all of this, and
Hillary will wage a one woman campaign trying to tie Rubio to Trump through
all of this.

And Rubio has long been an untenable position for a number of his
positions. But in this moment in specific it`s real trouble for them.

O`DONNELL: Jonathan Allen, some of the Republicans did find their voice
against Donald Trump today. This was the one where – I mean, they all
could have said something stronger.

Of course, they could have. But it was the one where none of them said,
oh, you know, I`m OK with Donald Trump on this.

ALLEN: Yes, there – I mean, there`s no elected official in the United
States of America, particularly as you pointed out in the United States
Congress where they say a lot of nuts things.

There is nobody who believes in America who thinks that the right thing to
do is to have some sort of religious test for whether people can come into
this country.

And by the way, the craziest thing about this proposal is how would you
define who a Muslim is? I mean, just on a – I mean, beyond the – how the
morality of it, beyond the constitutionality of it, it`s an insane idea
that you would be able –

(CROSSTALK)

O`DONNELL: Or apparently –

ALLEN: To find –

O`DONNELL: Jonathan, Trump answered that question this morning to all the
guys on “Morning Joe”. He said, when they arrive at the border, we simply
ask them.

That`s how you determine it.

(CROSSTALK)

ALLEN: Well, then I`ll say I`m a Muslim, I come into the country.

O`DONNELL: Yes – no, I mean, look, it`s – I mean, the thing is, here`s
this guy who proposes Un-American, unconstitutional ideas.

He – everything else that he proposes including this has not been thought
out for ten seconds. He hasn`t the vaguest idea how you would actually do
any of his own madness.

WAGNER: Yes, and this is someone who has business in the Muslim world, in
the Middle East, Donald Trump is developing hotels and properties.

Is he never going to have a meetings in the United States with the people
who he is creating projects with? I mean, like the practicality of this, to
say nothing of this sort of moral quotient.

It`s like – it`s like the most unfeasible, reprehensible, repugnant plan
that anybody has ever hatched, and it`s like not that it could ever be well
thought out, but it is particularly ill-conceived.

O`DONNELL: Alex Wagner worrying about what Donald Trump might be doing to
his kids inheritance.

(LAUGHTER)

Alex –

WAGNER: I care about all of our kids, Lawrence.

O`DONNELL: Alex Wagner and Jonathan Allen, thank you both very much.

ALLEN: Take care.

O`DONNELL: Coming up, Donald Trump`s rhetoric as a national security risk
– seriously.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump, the republican
frontrunner has made a name for himself in the last months by trafficking
in prejudice and paranoia. His latest insult is his call to stop all
Muslims from entering the United States.

This is both a shameless and a dangerous idea. At a time when America
should be doing everything we can to lead the fight to defeat ISIS and
other radical Jihadists, Donald Trump is playing right into their hands.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Joining us now is Nasser Weddady. He is an expert on ISIS and
youth radicalization. Mr. Weddady, what is your reaction to what Hillary
Clinton just said that last line there that Donald Trump is playing right
into ISIS` hands?

NASSER WEDDADY, EXPERT ON YOUTH RADICALIZATION: Thank you, Chris. Mrs.
Clinton is absolutely correct because when ISIS says – sorry, when Donald
Trump says the kind of things that he is saying, he is actually undermining
probably the biggest point of strength the United States has, which is the
fact that this is an open society and the fact also that this is probably
one of the places in the globe where Muslims have been thriving the most.

So, he is doing the country a huge disservice by admitting this kind of
kooky theories and suggestions of his, because he is basically telling –
doing ISIS` work, which is ultimately the process of radicalization. It
tells the youth that they do not fit in the west and that the west will
never accept them, and therefore they should join ISIS. So, all in all, it
is a terrible idea.

O`DONNELL: The short statement that I thought was the most powerful I have
read was a tweet by Jeffrey Goldberg of the Atlantic, where he said Donald
Trump is now an actual threat to national security. He is providing
Jihadists ammunition for their campaign to demonize the U.S. You know,
presidential candidate being an actual threat to national security. Is
that overstating it?

WEDDADY: I think that there are a lot of people right now in the pentagon
and a lot of the think tanks, and people who are thinking about the problem
of ISIS and trying to kind of counter narrative to defeat it, that are
scratching their heads, who are pretty angry about the statements that
Donald Trump made.

Because, basically, he is invalidating a lot of work that is being –
actively being done to undermine ISIS` narratives. So, there is a level of
threat here in the sense that he is basically taking a lot of our work.
There are a lot of us, who are thinking about this problem and doing our
best to counter it, and undermining it in no time flat.

O`DONNELL: Let us listen to what he said – something else he said to
Barbara Walters tonight about this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARBARA WALTERS, ABC NEWS HOST: There are many even on your own party who
think that ISIS is going to like your rhetoric, that your words are putting
us in greater danger.

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am the worst thing that has
ever happened to is. The people in my party fully understand that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: You know, Nasser Weddady, I was in a Muslim country during
President Obama`s first campaign for the presidency. And, I had this young
Muslim guy say to me very confidently – very knowing – he was very well
versed on the Presidential campaign.

And, he said of course, “You know, Obama can never be President. He can
never be president.” He firmly believed that the United States of America
would never elect a black President. He also firmly believed that the
United States of America – He believed it just as strongly, would never
elect anyone with any name that sounded even vaguely Muslim.

And, I tried to tell him that, that was not the United States that I lived
in. He refused to believe me. I hope he believes me on that point now, at
least. But, I am thinking about those kids, those college age and others
out there. How is it – is it even vaguely possible to explain to them,
“No, no, no.” –

Paul Ryan, the speaker of the House of Representatives, today said this is
very bad, would absolutely never happen. And, Paul Ryan, this guy you have
never heard of is way more important and powerful than Donald Trump will
ever be.

WEDDADY: People actually follow the news closely. There is a furor going
on right now like in media over there, globally, actually for that matter.
And, the fact to the matter is, is that when Donald Trump says these kind
of things, it makes it a lot of harder for people, who represent the United
States, both government and informal.

There are a lot of us Americans who go abroad and answer these questions,
as you find yourself in that situation, and Donald Trump, like, we have to
explain to them the basics and the fundamentals of the American system,
that what Donald Trump said is a virtual impossibility, because of the
foundation of this republic. The constitution is very clear about it.

As a matter of fact, this could be turned into a positive, because that is
how you best explain tangibly to someone who is not an American, who does
not understand how this country works that we have ironclad protections in
our constitution. As a matter of fact, that this country, it was founded
to avoid the kind of things that Donald Trump is proposing.

So, all in all, this is not only preposterous, but it is actually hurting
people who are trying to undermine ISIS. That is what Donald Trump`s
populism. He wants to get – to scoop extra votes. But he just, like,
lost the respect and attention of a lot of people because he is actually
undermining the process of destroying ISIS.

O`DONNELL: Nasser Weddady, thank you very much for joining us, again,
tonight.

Up next, the British Prime Minister did something today that the British
Prime Ministers simply never does, and I mean never. And, Donald Trump
convinced him to do it, but Donald Trump did not like it one bit.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: British Prime Ministers never, but never have anything to say
about American Presidential campaigns until today. Today, David Cameron`s
office released this statement. “The Prime Minister completely disagrees
with the comments made by Donald Trump, which are divisive, unhelpful and
quite simply wrong.”

On “Morning Joe” this morning, Donald Trump lied as he has done many times
about French police and British police being afraid to patrol in Muslim
neighborhoods in Paris and London.

London Mayor, Boris Johnson, responded by saying, Donald Trump`s ill-
informed comments are complete and utter nonsense. Crime has been falling
steadily, both in London and New York. And, the only reason I would not go
to some parts of New York is the real risk of meeting Donald Trump.”

Joining us now, Nicholas Kristof, Pulitzer Prize-winning Columnist for “The
New York Times.” Nick, we are getting a world reaction.

(LAUGHING)

NICHOLAS KRISTOF, PULITZER PRIZE WINNING COLUMNIST, “THE NEW YORK TIMES”:
There is a wave –

O`DONNELL: To a candidate in a primary field, not a nominee. It is a
primary field. We have really never seen anything like this. British
Prime Minister jumping in, mayor of London jumping in.

KRISTOF: Yes, I mean it is astonishing. I agree to how this has kicked
off a wave of revulsion all over the world. You saw it with the British
Prime Minister, the French Prime Minister tweeted about this.

In Israel, there were comments about how this was reminiscent of the
beginnings of the third Reich. You had – I mean the British telegraph,
when the conservative stayed newspaper had a quiz asking people, you know,
“Who said this, Donald Trump or Hitler?”

O`DONNELL: Yes.

KRISTOF: And, when “The Telegraph” is doing that. J.K. Rowling responded
indignantly when people where compared Trump to Voldemort. Voldemort is not
that bad.

O`DONNELL: Right.

KRISTOF: And, I think, you know, it is partly just outrage at what he is
conveying and also concerned that this is indeed setting back the fight
against ISIS. You know, I think everybody recognizes worldwide that the
west`s best weapon against ISIS has been moderate Muslims, who in the past
have always been able to say, “Oh, well, you know, Terry Jones may be
burning Qurans.”

But, he is a little known pastor, who is completely on the fringe. They
may have this movie, but that is just a trailer, nobody knows anything
about it. But, now you have, you know, a leading Presidential candidate,
who is saying these things. And, that is a lot harder for our allies
around the world, our Muslim allies around the world to explain away.

O`DONNELL: There is a petition to parliament to ban Donald Trump from
entering the United Kingdom. It has 27,000 signatures the last time I
looked at it. If it gets 100,000, parliament must respond to it. But,
what it points out is, and you know, I almost kind of hate talking about
the actual elements of the idea, because it is impossible. It is
completely impossible. It could never happen. Founding fathers took care
of that. OK.

But, if some nut somehow got an idea like this going, Trump is so childish.
And, I mean childish, not juvenile. That is too old for him. I mean
childish, 4 years old, that he does not understand that if you ever did
something like this, Americans would then be banned from countries around
the world and not just Muslims countries. We could be banned from France.
Democracy like France would have to respond and say you cannot do this to
French citizens, which we would be doing it.

KRISTOF: You know, one of the reasons I think that this has attracted such
resonance in Europe is that Europe knows something about extremists. They
have a real problem with skinheads. They have a problem with the national
front in France.

But, this has always been a real fringe element. And, so, it is disturbing
to them to see something they recognize as a threat to democracy, to values
of tolerance, and then have it being reflected, not in a fringe in the
U.S., but by a mainstream American candidate.

O`DONNELL: We have – you know, we have always looked at these Trump
events and said, there is a moment here. There is an opportunity here for
the republican candidate, who can focus exactly the right attack on what
Trump has just said. I do not think we heard that attack today. The
strongest objections we have heard from republican candidates about Trump.
But, I am not sure that we heard the winning argument.

KRISTOF: You know, and I am not as convinced as you are that this is so
disastrous for a Trump politically. You know, I saw one poll that 76
percent of republican primary voters –

O`DONNELL: Right.

KRISTOF: – believe that Islam is incompatible with America. I would like
to think that this is the moment he truly went over the cliff. I hope so,
but –

O`DONNELL: Here is what I think it is. Not so much – I mean 50 percent
for the content of what he said, but the other 50 percent is voters
starting to get the feeling, “Whoa, he is really out there.”

By the way, if I think that, I know that I am really out there. Real
hardcore racists know that they are racist and they know that their view is
unacceptable in polite society, right? And, they also know that their view
is never going to carry the day in the United States senate or so.

So, I think these people are going to start to look at him the way they
have looked at Ben Carson and say, “Uh-oh, there is just too much nuttiness
here, we are going away from Ben Carson.” That is my bet about where we
are.

KRISTOF: Well, I sure hope –

(LAUGHING)

O`DONNELL: Might be so or process.

KRISTOF: I sure hope that you are right. I mean, you know, we saw Trump
insult women –

O`DONNELL: Yes.

KRISTOFF: – who compose half the electorate, and that did not hurt him.
In this case, I think that there are a lot of republican primary voters who
think there is way too much political correctness, that people are not
waking up to what they perceive as a peril from Islam within their country
and finally somebody speaking truth to power. I hope I am wrong.

O`DONNELL: He is still – let us all remember, Donald Trump – America
needs to remember this, Donald Trump in the polls commands less voter
support than Bernie Sanders in this country.

KRISTOF: True.

O`DONNELL: And, he is not breaking through the Bernie Sanders` ceiling
over him. And, I think we have the tendency to exaggerate the size of his
support.

KRISTOF: I think that is true. But, it is the first system in the
primaries. So, that is other factor.

O`DONNELL: Cross our fingers. Nick Kristof, thank you very much for
joining us tonight.

KRISTOF: Good to be with you.

O`DONNELL: Coming up, we have new information about the San Bernardino
terrorist plot. And, the Muslim marine will join us with his reaction to
Donald Trump.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: Senior Law Enforcement Officials said that Syed Farook had
discussed staging an attack in California as early as 2012. That official
told NBC news that investigators had not yet fully evaluated that claim,
but if true it would mean Syed Farook was radicalized earlier than
previously thought.

Tonight, in San Bernardino, investigators are also working to determine
whether a device left at the scene of the attack was a bomb meant to kill
first responders. Quoting an unnamed source, the “Los Angeles Times”
reports that the device probably would not have detonated, possibly due to
water damage from the building`s sprinkler system, which went off during
the shooting.

Investigators are also trying to figure out if the couple had help,
possibly from supplier, trainers, or financiers. NBC news also confirmed
today that the couple recently received $28,500, reportedly from the online
lender. A U.S. counterterrorism official says the couple probably wanted
to leave that money for their baby daughter and her grandmother.

Authorities are also trying to learn more about individuals seen entering
the garage at the couple`s apartment in the past few months. Investigators
say that the couple used that garage as a bomb-making facility. This
evening, first responders in San Bernardino held a news conference.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DET. BRIAN LEWIS, SAN BERNARDINO POLICE DEPT.: Approaching the building,
we knew that we were probably outgunned. We knew that there were people
down, and we knew we needed to get to them. I would be lying if I did not
say it was not difficult, walking up to those doors.

You know, we did not have any cover. We did not know where in the building
the gunmen were. We did not know, exactly, how many people were down.
But, we knew that we needed to get in there and save them. That is what we
have been trained to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: That is the face of truly heroic police work. Coming up, the
Muslim marine, Tayyib Rashid, gets tonight`s last word.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: Time for another reading from Donald Trump is a bad person by
Peter Soderman. It is at Reason.com. That is a libertarian website.
Peter Soderman writes:

“The easy mistake to make is to think that Donald Trump is a bad person
because he is a dull, fascistic bully. The better way to understand Trump
is the other way around. He is a dull fascistic bully because he is a bad
person.”

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: And, now tonight`s “Last Word.” The mayor of the city of
brotherly love said this today about the frontrunner for the Republican
Presidential nomination.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL NUTTER, (D) MAYOR OF PHILADELPHIA: He is an (EXPLETIVE WORD) hole.
I mean, he – I mean what do you – I apologize, reverends and people of
the religious community. I apologize. I mean, how can I take seriously
any foreign policy idea from someone like him? I mean it is impossible.
So, he has no idea what he is talking about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: The mayor could have said idiot, because a poll actually shows
that, that is the word that most voters commonly associate with Donald
Trump. Idiot. Banning Muslims from entering the United States is not
Trump`s first unconstitutional idea about Muslims.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Should there be a database system that tracks
Muslims here in this country?

TRUMP: There should be, a lot of systems beyond databases. We should have
a lot of systems.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: One former marine responded to that with this tweet. “Hey,
Donald Trump, I am an American Muslim and I already carry a special I.D.
badge. Where is yours?” That former marine, Tayyib Rashid, joins us now.

Tayyib, that was, of course, your marine I.D. that you were showing to
Donald Trump there. Did you ever get a response from Donald Trump on
Twitter? You know, because he responds to a lot of people.

MICHAEL NUTTER, (D) MAYOR OF PHILADELPHIA: Yes. Hi. Good evening,
Lawrence. Thank you again for having me. No, unfortunately I never got a
response. I am still waiting for it. So, anytime Mr. Trump you would like
to respond, I would welcome that.

O`DONNELL: Well, you know, I know that our audience was very impressed
with your first appearance here. And, I know people have been waiting for
24 hours now to hear your reaction to what Donald Trump said yesterday.

This notion of banning Muslims from entering the United States, including
in the first version of it, banning you, banning returning soldiers who are
Muslim from returning entering United States. Banning American citizens
from returning to the United States if they just gone for a week`s
vacation, if they are Muslim. That was the first version of it. What was
your reaction to all of that?

RASHID: Well, I mean, Lawrence, what do you say? I mean this guy is
hijacking America from Americans. That is what I feel like. And, you
know, this is the kind of hateful rhetoric that I feel is actually hurting
America, in multiple ways. Not only is it dividing communities, not only
is it dividing, you know, people and widening the gap between Muslims and
non-Muslims.

My biggest concern is that it is actually weakening our armed forces,
because, you know, when you do not have unity in the armed forces, that is
the biggest threat and allows for enemies of America to actually come in
and attack America. And, this is where I would say the Ahmadiyya Muslim
community and Muslims who believe in the Messiah, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of
Qadian, this is where we are trying to focus.

We are trying to focus on bringing Muslims and non-Muslims together to
reach an understanding, to drive out fear and hate and get to a point where
we can respect each other, understand that we are all wanting the same
thing. We want America to remain as the greatest country on earth. We
want America to be on top of the world, and we want peace and justice for
all.

The last thing I will say about this, Lawrence is that, you know, Muslim
communities in the U.S. are the biggest ally that we have to fight
terrorists. If Mr. Trump and his ilk continue to, you know, repeat this
hateful rhetoric. What it is doing is completely alienating and
neutralizing the best asset that America has to fight terrorism.

O`DONNELL: You know, last night in one interview, he was asked about what
about returning military personnel, who are Muslim and you could see in the
moment, he realized, “Oh, it was stupid to leave those out. So, I guess I
have to say, they can come back in,” which he then did.

RASHID: Yes. And, that is exactly – that goes to show that, you know, he
does not really think his ideas all the way through. You know, and this is
where I would again – you know, he is going to have his ideas.

Nobody is going to stop him from saying what he believes or what he wants.
But my appeal is to all the Americans out there. You know, there is a
recent survey that said that, nearly 200 million Americans do not know a
Muslim. My appeal is go out and meet a Muslim and get to know them.

O`DONNELL: Sergeant Tayyib Rashid, former Marine Sergeant gets tonight`s
“Last Word.” Thank you very much, sergeant.

RASHID: Thank you.

O`DONNELL: Chris Hayes is up next.

END

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