The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell, Transcript 11/25/15

Jonathan Alter, Michael Steele, Chris Whipple, Jesse Jackson, Craig Futterman, Laura Haim


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s very good.

future, I would have pardoned him.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, do you intend to pardon them on
Thanksgiving Day?




RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST: It was Reagan. President Ronald Reagan
avoiding talking about the Iran contra mess, makes a joke about a
Thanksgiving presidential pardon for a turkey that`s going to live anyway.

And that tape confirms the actual origins of the presidential turkey
pardon, and I know, I`m sorry, you are sick of hearing about it.

But tell me that wasn`t the best new thing in the world. Tell me that
wasn`t it! Have a wonderful Thanksgiving, that does it for us tonight,
we`ll see you again very soon, now it`s time for THE LAST WORD with
Lawrence O`Donnell. Good evening, Lawrence.

LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: Rachel, you`re so wrong, we`re not sick of
hearing about it. You could –


If you need another five minutes, that was fantastic. That was great –

MADDOW: The Iran contra scandal –


MADDOW: Gave birth to the turkey pardoning thing. I know –

O`DONNELL: The question couldn`t have been more relevant.

MADDOW: Happy Thanksgiving Lawrence, thanks for –

O`DONNELL: Thank you Rachel.

MADDOW: Thanks –

O`DONNELL: Jesse Jackson will join us from Chicago to discuss the murder
case against a Chicago police officer.

But first, Ohio Governor John Kasich`s now long-shot campaign for president
has officially become the anti-Trump campaign. With this new ad targeting
the frontrunner for the Republican presidential nomination.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would like anyone who is listening to consider some
thoughts that I paraphrased from the words of German Pastor Martin

“You might not care if Donald Trump says Muslims must register with their
government because you`re not one.

And you might not care if Donald Trump says he`s going to round up all the
Hispanic immigrants because you`re not one.

And you might not care if Donald Trump says it`s OK to rough up black
protesters because you`re not one. And you might not care if Donald Trump
wants to suppress journalists because you`re not one.

But think about this. If he keeps going, and he actually becomes
president, he might just get around to you, and you better hope that
there`s someone left to help you.


O`DONNELL: The video comes one day after a pro Kasich Super PAC released
an ad in Ohio and New Hampshire mocking Donald Trump.




TRUMP: He is a war hero –

LUNTZ: Five and a half years in the –

TRUMP: He`s a war hero because –

LUNTZ: Yes –

TRUMP: He was captured. If Ivanka wasn`t my daughter, perhaps I`ll be
dating her.





TRUMP: I have a great relationship with the blacks. I have – I`ve always
had a great relationship with the blacks –


TRUMP: Well, I just don`t respect her as a journalist. You know, you
could see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her -
- wherever.

Somebody`s doing the raping, Don. I mean, you know, what, it`s – I mean,
somebody`s doing the – just women being raped. Well, who`s doing the

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The belt moves this way, it moves this way.

TRUMP: How stupid are the people of Iowa?


O`DONNELL: And the “Wall Street Journal” reported last week that a group
called Trump Card LLC is attempting to unite donors from rival camps to
launch a campaign against Donald Trump.

Joining us now, Michael Steele, former Republican Party chairman and an
Msnbc political analyst and Jonathan Alter, Msnbc political analyst and
columnist for “The Daily Beast”.

Max Boot has tweeted – Max Boot is a conservative member of the Council on
Foreign Relations. He`s tweeted, “Trump is a fascist and that`s not a term
I use loosely or often, but he`s earned it.”

Jonathan Alter, the attacks finally coming at Donald Trump.

JONATHAN ALTER, COLUMNIST, DAILY BEAST: Yes, I think, you know, we`ve all
been predicting that he was going to deflate like a Macy`s day balloon, you
know, after Thanksgiving.

They can now actually might start happening. There`s quite a bit of time
between now and when these caucuses and primaries get going and plenty of
time for him to deflate.

And I think you`ll see him beginning to deflate in December and then by the
time the Iowa caucuses come around, I`d be real surprised if he`s still the

Stranger things have happened, and he`s defied all the pundits until now.
But one thing that`s important to understand is that, he`s under the
mistaken impression that these poll numbers are what determines who wins.


ALTER: And we covered it – you and I have covered –


ALTER: These caucuses in particular for many years, it`s organization that
determines it. I haven`t seen a lot of signs that he`s got a great ground
game going in Iowa to bring all these people to the polls, to the caucuses.

They have to spend two hours there. And that`s something that Ted Cruz and
other candidates are much better set up to do right now in Iowa.

O`DONNELL: Yes, and he seems to think that 30 percent of the Republican
vote wins the presidency.

And Michael Steele, as we know, 30 percent is less – that number is less
than 15 percent of the general population of voters.

What about these ads, Michael? Do you think they will be effective at this
point in shaking that 30 percent of Republican voters who are currently
attached to Trump?

don`t think it will shake or move that 30 percent that`s attached to him.

What it will do for the remaining 70 percent is to begin to coalesce and
think well clearly about who they think can appropriately challenge him.

And quite honestly, Lawrence, whether the – you know, the flashback, the
throwback, the crashing, the screaming and yelling that comes from Donald
Trump once that happens.

And so, I know a number of the campaigns have been talking about
coordinating some of their efforts in that regard.

There are Super PACs that are talking to Super PACs about opportunities to
sort of pincher move on Donald Trump.

All of this in a concerted effort, to Jonathan`s point, is leading up to
that window in January where folks begin to really settle down and they do
not want Donald Trump in a position, in a poll position quite honestly
going into Iowa, New Hampshire in the first couple of weeks of February.

Because if he does, if he`s apt to come in, you know, even if he doesn`t
win Iowa, if he comes in second or third, he has enough momentum with him
relative to everyone else that that could really propel him down the road
much further than folks want him to be.

O`DONNELL: Robert Costa reporting in “The Washington Post” that party`s
donors are just sitting on the sidelines on this. “Many of the party`s
financiers and top strategists are sitting on the sidelines.

Many are reluctant to spend money against Trump after watching others
fumble as they try to handle his counter punches.

Others citing past elections remain confident that the race will eventually
pivot away from him early next year.” Michael Steele, where do they get
that confidence that this will pivot?


I mean – and what about – what about them sitting –

STEELE: I`m laughing, that should tell you how confident they should be,
right? –

O`DONNELL: What about them sitting on the sidelines? I mean, I thought
this was one of the functions of Super PACs, is that, they can take actions


O`DONNELL: Against a candidate that a campaign for candidate would have
trouble doing, taking those actions directly against another candidate.

STEELE: And that`s absolutely right, and that`s exactly the point that was
made in Robert`s piece – is, you know, suddenly, is that the campaign is
not going to spend their hard dollars.

That means the dollars they get directly from donors on going after Donald
Trump. That is – that is a full (INAUDIBLE) and there is no pot of gold
at the end of that rainbow.

In fact, that`s what the Super PACs are there for, they can go up on TV,
they can go into print, they can hit the internet in a way that the
campaigns don`t want to – not that they can`t.

But they don`t want to because that`s dollars directly out from their
bottom line. So, you won`t see that.

As I said before, there are some efforts to sort of not coordinate, but you
know, are you doing something? Are you doing something?

To see who is out there to respond to Donald Trump, but it will not be
coming from the campaigns directly.

O`DONNELL: All right, let`s listen to what I think is Donald Trump`s
biggest lie and the one that is probably going to cost him more trouble
than any other lie he`s told.

And that was the one he told Saturday night in Alabama about seeing
thousands of people doing something that they did not do and that he did
not see.


TRUMP: I watched when the World Trade Center came tumbling down. And I
watched in Jersey city, New Jersey, where thousands and thousands of people
were cheering as that building was coming down.


O`DONNELL: “The Washington Post” editorialized that that was a lie, they
used the word lie finally, and the “New York Times” called it a lie.

And Jonathan Alter, the “New York Times” issued this challenge to the
media. “History teaches that failing to hold a demagogue to account is a
dangerous act.

It is no easy task for journalists to interrupt Mr. Trump with the facts,
but it`s an important one.”

And as we`ve seen, and I mentioned this last night, that the way these TV
interviews work for Trump is that he says something insane and false like

The interviewer then does not say that`s a lie and stop the interview –

ALTER: Right –

O`DONNELL: Over the lie. The interviewer says, in this case George
Stephanopoulos Sunday morning, the police reports don`t corroborate.

That`s the best he can do. Because up until now, that has been the polite
liturgy of Sunday morning on political chat. You don`t sit there –

ALTER: Right –

O`DONNELL: And call the liar a liar. You have to find more subtle
language. Have we reached the point where we have a candidate who is such
a wild and uncontrollable liar that he is using the rules of Sunday morning
TV against the hosts and basically trapping them in their inability to call
him a liar.

ALTER: Yes, so, the big problem has been that, that Trump has been great
for ratings.


ALTER: So none of these hosts want to alienate him, they`re fearful that
he won`t come back on their show –

O`DONNELL: And he won`t –

ALTER: He won`t –

O`DONNELL: If you call him a liar, he will –


O`DONNELL: Never come back –

ALTER: That`s right –

O`DONNELL: They all won`t –

ALTER: So, they have to decide, it`s a moment of truth for journalists.
They have to decide what`s more important, preventing a demagogue, a
racist, a liar from being potentially the Republican nominee for president,
or maintaining the ratings and their access to this demagogue and liar.

So this is where real principle comes in. And it`s extremely important
that journalists do their job.

They haven`t been doing it, not only on that case, but you know, when he
talks about deporting 11 million people, that requires a police state to do
what his policy calls for.

You have to go door to door and grab people in the night the way they do in
police states. No, I haven`t seen any reporter really pressing him on

They tend to back off, they don`t follow up, he`s very intimidating, other
candidates have found this. So, the – it`s also incumbent on the other
candidates to do this.

They have to show in their own political interests who is the alpha male.
Is it going to continue to be Trump? If it is, then he will win the

Somebody, and maybe it`s John Kasich or somebody else has to figure out a
way to push him off the top of the hill. That person will likely be the

The fact that nobody is willing to do this right now doesn`t speak very
well of those candidates.

O`DONNELL: Michael Steele –

ALTER: Right –

O`DONNELL: The thing that the “New York Times” is urging, which is
basically for the interviewers to interrupt him when he lies and call it a
lie the way the “New York Times” has, that is ugly TV. I`ve –


O`DONNELL: Had my moments of it, I hate it when you get into that kind of
shouting match with the guest when something – it goes out of control. It
is ugly to watch, and so –


O`DONNELL: I understand everyone`s aversion to it. But it seems to me
that the TV interview, that Trump TV interview now has become a forum in
which he exploits the rules and the rules of politeness and very much
exploits that desire to have him come back on the show.

STEELE: I think you`re absolutely right there. And I think there`s also
the difference that he`s taking advantage of between network television and
cable television.

Which is much more of the wild west, if you will, the way hosts like
yourself and others really don`t – you`re not, you know, your first thrust
is not ratings.

Your first thrust is the interview, it is actually getting to the nub of
the conversation where there are all these other considerations that come
into play.

And once the guest knows that, they do have a tendency and ways to take
advantage of that. And I think you`ve seen that played out with Donald
Trump in dealing with the networks, the Nbc`s and the “Abc`s” and “Cbs`”.

Less so on cable, if you – if you watch his, you know, his, you know,
feelings with Fox for example, there is that – he`ll push but not – but
so far because he knows that audience is an audience he ultimately needs
and cannot tolerate that audience being, but so mad at him.

So, he does know how to go a little bit easy. I`ll apologize to Megyn
Kelly or whatever.

O`DONNELL: Yes, but never do Megyn Kelly show because he`s afraid about
how tough those –

STEELE: That`s right –

O`DONNELL: Questions will be. Mike Steele and Jonathan Alter, thank you
very much for joining us tonight, have a happy day tomorrow, happy
Thanksgiving –

STEELE: Happy Thanksgiving, man –

O`DONNELL: Thank you. Coming up, Jesse Jackson joins us to discuss the
murder charge brought against a Chicago police officer and all 12 CIA
directors, those who are still living are participating in a documentary
that airs this Saturday on “Showtime”.

The man who put that project together will join us.



mention something I`m thankful for – Donald Trump.


TRUMP: I was the one that predicted Osama Bin Laden was trouble – did you
read the book? It says Osama Bin Laden!

COLBERT: Yes, Trump predicted that Osama Bin Laden was threatening America
all the way back in the year 2000, the same year Bin Laden was linked to
the bombing of the USS Cole.

And only two years after Bin Laden was indicted for the embassy bombings in
Tanzania and Kenya, and only seven years after Bin Laden was implicated in
the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.

That`s spooky. It`s like Trump has some kind of fifth sense that lets him
see what`s in newspapers and on TVs.



O`DONNELL: Up next, there are 12 former directors of the CIA, 12 who are
still alive, still with us and they all have something to say about
America`s war on terror, that`s next.


O`DONNELL: President Obama met with his national security team at the
White House this morning, after the meeting, the President said this.


specific and credible intelligence indicating a plot on the homeland.

So, the bottom line is this, I want the American people to know entering
the holidays, that the combined resources of our military, our intelligence
and our homeland security agencies are on the case.

They`re vigilant, relentless and effective. In the event of a specific
credible threat, the public will be informed.


O`DONNELL: A new documentary takes a look inside the war on terror,
including a look back. “The Spymasters - CIA in the Crosshairs” premiers
Saturday at 9:00 p.m. Eastern on “Showtime”.

The film includes interviews with all 12 living directors of the CIA.
Joining us now is the executive producer and the writer of the “Spymaster”,
Chris Whipple.

Chris, what was your biggest discovery in the course of doing this
documentary? Surely, you went in with a set of expectations, a lot of
surprises, a lot of confirmations of what you already thought. What was
the biggest surprise?

know, it`s hard to choose. A lot of surprises.

One of the – one of the stunning things I think that we`ve discovered is
the extent to which every CIA director makes life and death decisions on
the job.

I think it was a huge surprise to Leon Panetta, who had been around, he`s
been White House Chief of Staff, Congressman. He had no idea that he was
going to become a kind of a battlefield commander.

He tells –

O`DONNELL: But what is an example of a – I think of the CIA director as
somebody who basically goes to the White House and reports, here`s what we
know, decisions, tactical decisions are made by people other than the CIA

WHIPPLE: Not true.


WHIPPLE: Here`s a perfect example, and it`s a riveting story that Leon
Panetta tells moment by moment.

He is at the funeral for one of his CIA officers in Arlington cemetery when
he gets word that they`re having a crosshairs of a drone over Pakistan.

A major terrorist who was responsible for the suicide bombing at host,
killing seven CIA officers.

Panetta calls the White House, they have a conversation, and as Panetta
puts it, the problem was we had women and children in the shot.


WHIPPLE: Ordinarily, when you have women and children in the shot, you
don`t do it. The White House said to Leon, this one is on you, Leon. He
said great, you know –

O`DONNELL: They hand-back the decision to him –

WHIPPLE: They said, as Leon put it to us, they said this one – this one -
- you`re going to have to make a judgment here, Leon. He goes, great.

I`m going to have to be – I`m the one who is saying the hail Marys here.
Panetta, devout Catholic, fingering his rosary beads, saying his hail
Marys, makes that decision to take the strike and take out this terrorist,
knowing that women and children were in the shot.

O`DONNELL: And did that – what did they get as the result? What was the
after report on –

WHIPPLE: The after report is classified and you know, as you know, the
very existence of the lethal drone program has never been acknowledged by
the CIA.

Panetta did tell us that they got the terrorists, this was a very bad guy,
but that there was collateral damage.

O`DONNELL: Yes, and so – and he knew he was going to take that on. What
– the CIA, our intelligence apparatus in general has missed some of the
biggest things that have happened on their watch.

They did not predict the collapse of the Soviet Union. They never went to
the President and said hey, we can track it, four years from now, the whole
thing is going to collapse.

Or ten years from now or four months from now. They missed the Islamic
bomb. They missed Pakistan getting a nuclear weapon. Basically, they read
it in the paper.

These are probably the two biggest things to happen on their watch.

WHIPPLE: And they completely – they completely blew it on weapons of mass
destruction –

O`DONNELL: Yes, I beg – yes, sorry to leave that out, yes –

WHIPPLE: Right –


WHIPPLE: Two pairs of –

O`DONNELL: Creating yet what may be our most misguided war. Certainly the
most misguided war of the 21st century.

WHIPPLE: There`s an existential struggle going on within the CIA right now
over the mission of CIA.

Bob Gates would say, for example, that if you allow yourself – if you
allow the agency to become seduced by covert paramilitary operations, and
it`s never been as paramilitary in its history as it is now.

You pay a price for that. And the price that you pay for that is in your
analysis. Gates says imagine how different history would be if we hadn`t
gone into Iraq.

We missed completely the North Koreans building that reactor in Syria. The
Israelis had to tell us about that. That stuff we used to be good at.

So, you can pay a price when you – when you focus too much on –

O`DONNELL: If – I`ve met some of them, talked to some of them, very
impressive, some of them are not very impressive.

But if you could pick one of these 12 to go back in there today and do the
job, who would you pick?

WHIPPLE: Wow, that`s a great –

O`DONNELL: Who impressed you the most, in other words?

WHIPPLE: That`s a great question. Panetta, I think he`s impressive. Let
me answer it in a slightly different way. The most interesting,
complicated character – and this is a Shakespearean cast of characters –

O`DONNELL: Yes, it is –

WHIPPLE: I think it`s David Petraeus –


WHIPPLE: George Tenet –

O`DONNELL: Yes, Michael Hayden, fascinating guy.

WHIPPLE: Michael Hayden, it`s a fascinating cast of characters, and I
would say that Tenet might be the most interesting because – and the most
Shakespearean –

O`DONNELL: Certainly the most troubled –

WHIPPLE: Consider what –


You consider what –


Happened on his watch –

O`DONNELL: Yes, he was the one with the slam dunk on weapons of mass
destruction, all right. Chris Whipple, thank you very much for joining us
tonight, I really appreciate it.

The documentary is the “Spymasters” and it premiers this Saturday on
“Showtime”. Coming up, Laura Haim has been a critical part of our coverage
of the attacks in Paris.

She`s here in New York City tonight, she will join us on set, a rare onset
appearance for Laura. She will get tonight`s last word.

But first, the protest in Chicago after the release of the video showing
17-year-old Laquan McDonald being shot and in the view of the prosecutors,
murdered by a Chicago police officer.


O`DONNELL: We`ve just obtained new video tonight showing Laquan McDonald
just moments before he was shot and killed by a Chicago police officer.

The new video shows Laquan McDonald passing a Burger King just before
officer Jason Van Dyke started firing at him.

Tonight, a second night of protest is underway in Chicago after police
released that dash cam footage yesterday, showing what prosecutors are
calling the murder of the 17-year-old Laquan McDonald by Chicago police
officer Jason Van Dyke.

Hours before the release of that tape, officer Van Dyke was arrested and
charged with first-degree murder. The video of the shooting, the dash cam
video is graphic, we showed it to you last night that morning.

It shows Laquan McDonald, holding a knife, was a three-inch blade as he`s
walking in the middle of the road and veering away from police officers.

There he is, veering away from them as they step toward him. Officer Van
Dyke then emptied the magazine of his semi-automatic 9 millimeter handgun,
firing 16 shots.

They all hit Laquan McDonald. Tonight, President Obama released this
statement on Facebook. “Like many Americans, I was deeply disturbed by the
footage of the fatal shooting of 17-year-old Laquan McDonald.

This Thanksgiving, I asked everybody to keep those who suffered tragic loss
in our thoughts and prayers and to be thankful for the overwhelming
majority of men and women in uniform, who protect our communities with
honor. And, I am personally grateful to the people in my hometown for
keeping protests peaceful.”

NBC`s Stephanie Gosk joins us now from Chicago. Stephanie, what is the
situation there?

STEPHANIE GOSK, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lawrence, the good news for
the city of Chicago tonight is that these protests have remained small and
peaceful. We were out among the protesters tonight. At the most, there
were 100, 150. That group has now dwindled significantly.

What was interesting about it tonight is how much leeway the police gave
them. I mean, they were walking up and down Michigan avenue, the
magnificent mile. They were at times shutting down some major
intersections at this city during rush hour, but there was very little
containment of them.

And, that is in part because of the size of the group, but also you got the
sense being among those officers that the idea was to keep this as non-
confrontational as possible, and it certainly remained that way. But there
are anticipating a much larger protest on black Friday.

And, this street behind me will be filled with shoppers. The idea among
protesters is to stage this larger demonstration at a time when the city
will feel it most and have an economic impact, so that their voices are

This video was released right before the holiday. Obviously, that is going
to have an impact on the people that are going to participate. People
probably going home for Thanksgiving. But, there is an effort obviously to
stage a larger protest on Friday.

O`DONNELL: Stephanie Gosk from Chicago, Michigan Avenue. Thank you very
much for joining us tonight, Stephanie.

We are joined now by Reverend Jesse Jackson, Civil Rights Activist and the
President and founder of the Rainbow Push Coalition. And, also with us,
Craig Futterman, clinical professor of law at the University of Chicago.
He argued and won the case that released that police dash cam video to the

Reverend Jackson, I want to get your reaction to – really a year of what
you have been watching in Chicago on this from the time of this incident,
which is now 13 months ago, taking over a year to get to that point
yesterday, where these murder charges were filed and when the prosecutors
announced the charges to support them. Publicly in her press conference,
she simply cited one eyewitness and this dash cam video that we have seen.

She could not have described a simpler case, a simpler murder case. And we
have been left bewildered about what took 12 months for her to get to at
this point. Is there any better understanding of that in Chicago tonight?

COALITION: No, there is not. You know, there were 16 shots and 13 months.
And, while the killing officer was a murderer and assassin, doing crime,
what about the cover-up. How early was it known who all saw the tape?

Clearly, if a decision was made to give a $5million hush money deal, that
is very suggestive. Also, while he – into the 16 shots, he was about to
reload, and the police stopped him, secondly. So, what was in his
bloodstream? What was in his mind?

And, thirdly, the other police who were there, they did not stop him. They
did not arrest him. And, we are finding out about them only because the
lawyers for whom we share tonight have through a freedom of information act
dug up the information. We would not even know tonight.

And, that is why 75 percent of all these murders in Chicago are unsolved,
police corruption. That is why we want the chief to go when a special
prosecutor and federal oversight may put this department under a federal
investigation, because it is so rife with racial injustices. 450 killings
this year so far and 2,700 shootings, and no apparent relief in sight.

O`DONNELL: Craig Futterman, how long did it take you from the time you
filed this case to yesterday, getting the release of that video?

It has taken a long time, Lawrence. This fight has been long and hard, but
the judge expedited this. And, expedited this as quickly as possibly
reaching the spinal ruling. I mean, this is the case as the reverend said,
began with the horrific murder.

We have all seen the video followed by file lie, showing the lie, and then
a cover-up and – cover-up all by secrecy. So, you have then immediately
after this horrific murder – and one thing that has been left out about it
that I think is really important, that the video does not completely show
because there is no audio.

When we talk to witnesses and we talk to at least a couple of witness, who
were there and who saw this, where they say also, after he fired the first
couple of shots took the boy down, he paused. There is a pause. You
cannot hear that pause in the video because there is no sound. We do not
know why there is no sound, because there is supposed to be sound in the

And, then he unloads another 13 or 14 shots into the boy`s prone body,
until the clip is injured. Next thing it happens is the code of silence,
the lie. The lie that is told to the press. The lie that is told to the
public that this boy lunged at him with a knife, shot him once – shot him
once in the chest, in self-defense, when the boy is coming after him.

We know that is a lie. And, then there is silence. And, not just silence,
but there were witness – The witnesses who where there were told to get
out of there. The witness – One of the witnesses who said stop shooting
refuses to leave. She is brought to the police station and she tells –
she reports that she is intimidated there and told that she did not see
what she saw.

And, then finally, there is a disruption of the evidence. And, so the
question about this cover-up as well is, not just what is happening with
this one officer, but what is going to happen to all the folks who
participated in this cover-up and how far does that cover-up go?

O`DONNELL: Craig, let me ask you, as a legal matter, could a cover-up have
survived if you – If you had not been able to obtained this video the way
you did? Was there any other legal avenue where this video was
inevitably going to have to come out?

There was not a civil case because they settled the civil case without them
bringing one. So, the family, normally would have subpoena power through a
civil case to get it. That have already disappeared. But, in this
investigation that the prosecutor was doing, would it inevitably led to the
release of the video whether there were charges or not?

FUTTERMAN: No. And, certainly, there were no charges brought. And, this
is the real fear. So, someone within the city confidentially was so
troubled by this, they came to me. And, they said, “This might gets what
under rug. You need to speak out about this. You need to do something
about this.” And, the reality in Chicago is that, we have averaged one
police shooting a week.

A police officer has shot somebody one time a week, an average for the last
30 years. 75 percent of those folks are African-Americans. When I read
the first press article that came out about this, my eyes glazed over it.
And, that is how just immune we have become to people being shot and
killed, and particularly black people being shot and killed by police in
Chicago, and it is the same story.

And, the story is someone came after me with a knife, feared for my life.
Someone came after me with a weapon. I shot them and I shot them once.
People hear that story every day. No one since 1968, not a single police
officer since 1968 in Chicago has ever been criminally prosecuted when they
have been on duty and shot someone. That is almost 50 years.

REV, JACKSON: You know, Lawrence.

FUTTERMAN: And, shootings happen one time a week.

O`DONNELL: Go ahead, Rev. Jackson.

REV. JACKSON: Reasonably, if I asked by the White House Conference on
violence and urban policy, Chicago does not make the top ten citizens per
capita in this killing. The guns and drugs and jobs out, police is
overwhelming us.

I mean this kid also was a ward of the state. This kid had a very tough
life and was about to turn the corner. And, those police who were
accomplices, as it were, who were witnesses, it is important to see what
their report says.

We see the leadership in Charleston, South Carolina, when nine were killed
and the Governor Nikki Haley moved and the mayor of Charleston gave me the
convene leadership and they went on to tear down the wall – the
confederate flag.

Here, the police chief is certainly implicated and weakened – the state`s
attorney is weakened. And, there is yet no attempt to remove the wall that
stand between people and justice. We really want a full scale immediate
fairly – of this police department. Out of 12,000, there may be 40 blacks
in significant positions out of 12,000.

O`DONNELL: Reverend Jackson, if that dash cam video had malfunctioned that
night, if there was no video of this event with all your experience and all
your lifetime in Chicago, knowing how things operate there, if there was no
video of this event, would there be a murder charge against this officer

REV. JACKSON: Probably, no charge. We really knew very little about this
until it was revealed by my counterpart here and the researchers. And, if
this were a quote, unquote, “Gang banger shooting another gang banger,” he
would have been indicted very quickly and the rest of the jail.

But, the police have this way of covering for each other in ways that cover
up their credibility. Can you imagine 75 percent of the murders are
unsolved? You have got recycled murderers walking the streets in this

And, downtown is able to see it as them versus us? That is why on this
coming Friday, there will be a major march down Michigan Avenue saying, “It
is one city with one shared obligation to resolve this crisis.”

O`DONNELL: Reverend Jesse Jackson and Craig Futterman, thank you both for
joining us tonight. I really appreciate it.

FUTTERMAN: Thank you so much, Lawrence.

REV. JACKSON: Thank you.

O`DONNELL: Thank you. Coming up, what was it like inside the Bataclan
Theatre the moment that gun fire erupted in Paris. The band that was
playing there did an exclusive interview with Vice News. We will bring you
part of that interview. But, first, an NBC News investigation. We will
show a dangerous security lapse at major airports in the United States.



O`DONNELL: In the aftermath of the Paris attacks, the Belgium Government
is stripping or blocking security clearances of Brussels Airport employees,
who have ties to anyone, who has traveled to Syria. That is according to
“The Wall Street Journal.”

Newspaper reports it is part of the Belgian Government`s efforts to contain
a security threat posed by Islamic Extremists in that country. Now, an NBC
News investigation raises questions about insider threats at American
Airports. Here is NBC`s Tom Costello.


TOM COSTELLO, NBC CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At JFK Airport today,
business as usual at the employee entrance at terminal 4. Select airport
workers swipe their secure electronic keys, entered a pin then walked right
in. Unlike passengers and crew members, no I.D. checks, no metal
detectors, no explosive scans, no bag checks.

It is the same routine that was captured here on cell phone video last
January. No checkpoints inside either except for the random TSA and
airport police checks. Nationwide, only Miami and Orlando airports fully
screen every worker every day.

Surprisingly, the nation `s airports decide for themselves whether to
screen employees. But, an airport police union says it is a dangerous
security gap. Three years ago, it wrote the TSA, urging mandatory
screening for all airport employees at the biggest airports including TSA


we going to learn our lessons from the past? When are we going to be
proactive rather than reactive?


COSTELLO (voice-over): Homeland Security recently called for fewer airport
access points and more random employee screening. After the Metrojet
bombing in Egypt, security experts are warning against radicalized
employees with access to airports and planes. Homeland Security Secretary
Jeh Johnson today.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Most airport workers who go to work every day
are not screened, does that need to change?

JEH JOHNSON, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: We are evaluating whether more
is necessary right now. That is something that I and TSA have been focused
on as recently as today.


COSTELLO (voice-over): The problem, many airports complain they cannot
afford the manpower to screen every employee every day.


COSTELLO (on camera): Tonight, JFK Airport terminal executives are not
responding to our calls for comment, but the TSA says the airport does do
background checks and does conduct random pat downs and bag checks but it
is not every employee, but it is not every employee and it is not every
day. Tom Costello, NBC News, Washington.


O`DONNELL: Up next, members of the band that was playing at the Bataclan
tell their story of what it was like during the Paris attacks.



O`DONNELL: The band playing at the Bataclan Concert Hall where 89 people
were killed during the Paris terror attacks is speaking out for the first
time. Vice founder Shane Smith sat down with that band for an exclusive

The full interview is now available on Here they are – here is
Sean London, the sound engineer. He is talking about his encounter with
one of the gunmen at the start of the attack.


SEAN LONDON, SOUND ENGINEER: People started dropping to the ground,
injuries, death, you know and then also running. There is nowhere to go,
so they basically ran into me, towards me, and jumped down below my
console. And, I was still standing up and I could see the gunman. And, he
looked right at me and he shot at me, he missed.

And, he hit my console and buttons went flying everywhere. Like the
console caught a shot. And, that is when I went instantly down to the
ground and we all just huddled. And, I think he thought I probably got hit
because I went down so quickly and everybody else around was injured.

There was blood all over. He stayed there and continued to shoot and shoot
and slaughter and just scream at the top of his lungs Allah Akbar, and that
is when I instantly knew what was going on.


O`DONNELL: You can see Vice founder Shane Smith`s exclusive interview with
the band in its entirety on Coming up, Laura Haim joins me with
how the Paris attacks are affecting the next election there.



O`DONNELL: We are looking at the live video from Chicago of a
demonstration. Police have just intervened a very small group of people.
There might be an arrest or two occurring there, but it is a very small

Most of the people have walked away calmly from that location. Not a very
large assembly of police officers there responding to it. Most of them on
bicycles. In fact, the police officers who were there.

So, there may be one or two arrests there. Nothing serious. If there is
anything worth paying attention to beyond what we are seeing, we will go
back to it. We will be right back.


O`DONNELL: And, now tonight`s LAST WORD and it will be a French last word.
For all things French, we turn to Laura Haim. She is the White House
Correspondent and U.S. Bureau Chief for Canal Plus.

This began with the Charlie Hebdo attacks when we were looking for guests
to talk about it that night about what happened. I told everyone here that
I wanted to hear from as many French voices as possible and suggested
finding a reporter for a French News Organization in Washington.

Probably, someone assigned to cover the White House. And, so that night,
Laura made her first appearance on this program, which was actually her
first appearance on American cable news. And, she join us now tonight here
in New York. Laura, great to see you, great to have you in the studio.


O`DONNELL: You are an audience favorite, and so we decided to allow the
audience to ask you a few questions tonight. And, we got them on Facebook.
And, one says – first one, William Ridgeway, “How long do you expect the
increased security measures to last in France?”

HAIM: At least until February.

O`DONNELL: Uh-huh.

HAIM: Because this set of emergency is until February – February 24th, so
there is going to be a lot of delays in the airport when you are going to
travel. There is going to be a lot of different measure, which are going
to involve a lot of people coming to France during Christmas. We do not
know what is going to happen and France is still threatened.

O`DONNELL: The second question from Facebook is how is this going to
affect – let us see, Kathleen Williams, basically, wants to know how is
this going to affect the elections that are coming up. And, specifically
the issue of the hostility in France to immigrant groups to Muslims in
particular and areas of France, how is that going to play it?

HAIM: That is an excellent question. Because the next story is about the
regional election. The first strongly is on December 6th, who is the far-
right, Marine Le Pen. There are a lot of anti-Muslim speeches at this

A lot of hate. Possibly, the French President is trying to take care of
that. We do not know if he is going to succeed by United Nation. People
are extremely worried, and this is a test for the unity of the nation on
December 6th.

O`DONNELL: Does Le Pen promised more action than Hollande is already

HAIM: Yes, Le Pen, he wants to build a lot of walls and Le Pen wants to
reject a lot of Muslim people in our own countries. Le Pen has a very
xenophobic speech.

O`DONNELL: Shut off any refugees coming in?

HAIM: Yes, absolutely. It is very similar to what is happening in the
American Presidential election. That is why it is so interesting to
compare the speeches about what is happening in France at this moment, who
is the far right. What is happening in the United States, who is the
Republican Party.

You find a lot of similarities, a lot of semi-expressions. And I think
there is going to be really interesting to see it on December 6th and then
after that, it is two weeks of elections, Le Pen is sitting with her

O`DONNELL: Now, you established in the White House Press Conference that
Francois Hollande has no intention of sending in ground troops to Syria.
Is there any difference between Le Pen and Hollande on the issue of how
they would militarily go after the Islamic State?

HAIM: Yes, absolutely. And, what is interesting about Hollande, that is
why I think the question yesterday was relevant was, no ground troops.
But, the Americans have troops in a way, in Syria with special forces, you
know. The French do not have special forces. So, now, Marine Le Pen and a
lot of French politicians on the right side want more military action.

And, again, they come back to decide, yes, this is exactly similar to what
is happening in the United States with the Republican Party. Francois
Hollande so far is the negotiator in chief. He wants to give things. He
wants to unites the nation. It is still our own nation, which is grieving.

Tomorrow, people are going to bury their loved one. It is moment of unity
on something, which is deeply touching about that. They want French people
to put a French flag in the window.

And, you know, we do not have – us, the French, the symbolic of what you
have in America with the American flag. Here in America, people – when
there is something going on, they puts the American flag. Tomorrow in
France, we are going to put the French flag.

O`DONNELL: Let us have the last word be your French pronunciation of your
first name, which is different than the way you have Americanized it.

HAIM: Laurence.

O`DONNELL: Laurence.

HAIM: Better!

O`DONNELL: It is the same as mine.

HAIM: I know that is why when I came to the United States, I said “OK, now
I am Laura.”

O`DONNELL: All right. That is tonight`s LAST WORD. Up next is whatever
is up next.


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