NYC Terror Attack Transcript 10/31/17 The Rachel Maddow Show

Joyce Vance

Date: October 31, 2017
Guest: Joyce Vance

CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST, ALL IN: That is “ALL IN” for this evening.

THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW starts right now.

Good evening, Rachel.

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST: Good evening, Chris. Thanks, my friend.

And thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. We`ve got a bunch of
news that has broken late today and into this evening, stories we`re
continuing to follow as developing news stories. That includes the federal
court in Washington, D.C., unsealing a new batch of documents in the
special counsel`s criminal case against Trump campaign chairman Paul
Manafort and Trump campaign official Rick Gates. The 12-count felony
indictment against those two Trump campaign officials, of course, was
unsealed yesterday, alongside a guilty plea from a more junior campaign
official who now admits he lied to the FBI about his Russia contacts during
the campaign. That was all yesterday.

This new filing unsealed tonight by the federal court in Washington lays
out the first overt Russia connections to the Manafort and Gates indictment
as well as the Russia connections that were spelled out in the guilty plea
for that more junior campaign official, George Papadopoulos yesterday.

So this new document about Manafort and Gates, it`s actually a new set of
documents, a whole docket that`s been posted this evening. That means it
includes arrest warrants, it includes the terms for the release from
custody of Manafort and gates. There`s a lot, there`s a lot there. And
we`ll have more on that new filing coming up shortly this evening.

As well as the new NBC News scoop that the Trump national campaign co-
chair, the top policy official on the Trump campaign, has begun speaking
with the Mueller inquiry, and he has now given testimony to the grand jury
in that case.

So as I said, there`s a bunch of developing stories that are breaking this
afternoon and into this evening. We`ll have more on those stories and
more, ahead.

But our top story tonight, of course, is what local officials, including
New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio, are now calling an act of terror in the
nation`s largest city. Tonight, eight people are dead and 11 people have
been taken to the hospital with injuries after a man driving a rental truck
apparently deliberately drove down a bike path that`s next to the West Side
Highway in Lower Manhattan. He indiscriminately run down and run over
pedestrians and cyclists.

I live right there, I can tell you that bike path is very, very well-
utilized. It`s basically its own highway for people on foot or on bike or
on skates. It runs alongside the Hudson River on one side and a six-lane
highway on the other side.

Police say the driver turned his truck onto the bike path at Houston
Street. He was then able to drive southbound down the bike path, which is
supposed to be a no-vehicle zone. He was able to drive southbound 20
blocks, hitting people on bikes and pedestrians along the way. Then down
at Chambers Street he collided with a school bus. That was at the first
cross street that he hit, Chambers Street right near Stuyvesant High

Now, police say two adults and two children onboard the school bus were
injured when the truck rammed into the school bus. After crashing into the
school bus, the attacker got out of his truck. Law enforcement sources
tell NBC News the man yelled “Allahu Akbar” before fire off what appears to
have been a BB gun or a pellet gun.

A uniformed police officer responding to the scene then shot the attacker
in the abdomen. Police say the attacker is currently being treated at a
nearby hospital, although we don`t know exactly which ones.

The authorities have also not yet released the names of those killed today.
Among those injured, some of the people who are in the hospital tonight are
in serious conditions. As of now, we don`t believe that any of the
remaining injuries are life-threatening, even though they`re serious.

Now, the suspect in today`s attack has been identified by NBC News as a 29-
year-old man, Sayfullo Saipov is his name. He`s of Uzbek origin. Federal
authorities tell NBC News tonight that Saipov came to the United States in
2010 from Uzbekistan. The driver`s license he was carrying tonight was
apparently from Tampa, Florida. WNBC reports Saipov is believed to have
been staying recently in New Jersey. He believed that he rented the truck
used in today`s attack from a Home Depot in Passaic, New Jersey.

NBC news reports the suspect rented that truck at around 2:00 p.m. today,
and then drove straight to Manhattan to carry out the attack. The attack
happened just past 3:00 p.m. Now, New Jersey advanced media reports late
tonight authorities surrounded a block in Paterson, New Jersey, in a
parking lot at a Home Depot in Passaic, New Jersey. Police also surrounded
a mosque and nearby apartments in Paterson, New Jersey.

Now, we mentioned that officials are calling this an act of terror. That`s
apparently based on the mode of the attack and what the suspect said when
he got out of the truck. But in the past hour, WNBC is reporting that in
addition to all of that, a note was found in the suspect`s truck, and
according to WNBC, that note claims that the driver, the suspect in the
attack had done what he did for ISIS.

WNBC is sourcing that report about the note tonight to law enforcement
officials. Now, the NYPD and the FBI have opened what they`re describing
as a joint investigation into today`s attack. We`ll have more on what that
means in just a moment. But there are still some basic unanswered
questions. We don`t yet know what brought this suspect from Florida to New
Jersey and how long he had been in the tri-state area. We also don`t know
the details of how this New York City police officer came upon and stopped
the perpetrator.

We also don`t know exactly why the perpetrator got out of his rented truck
in the first place, which, of course, gave that police officer a clear
opportunity to shoot him. New York police commissioner James O`Neill noted
that in an issue of the ISIS magazine that came out a couple of years ago,
ISIS not only gave detailed instructions to its followers to use trucks to
kill pedestrians, they specifically suggested a gathering like, as you see
on your screen here, New York`s Macy`s Thanksgiving Day parade as a good
target for terrorists to target in a vehicle-borne attack.

This is not Thanksgiving, but it is Halloween. And as it turns out, New
York City does have a big event going on tonight. The annual Halloween
parade which you see here. New York City did not cancel tonight`s annual
Halloween parade after this attack in Lower Manhattan this afternoon. But
New York City`s mayor and New York`s governor, Andrew Cuomo, announced that
revelers at the Halloween party tonight should expect an increased police
presence, not just at the parade but around the city, as a precaution.

Joining us now from Lower Manhattan is NBC News correspondent Kristen
Dahlgren, who`s covering this report, this story all day.

Kristen, thanks very much for joining us now. Appreciate your time


Yes, you talk about Halloween down here, this is supposed to be a joyous
time in this neighborhood, around Manhattan. Throughout this night, it`s
been so upsetting to see all of the police activity and the flashing lights
and everything, and you see a little kid walking by in their Halloween
costume, parents pushing strollers with their kids out here, others headed
off to the Greenwich Village parade tonight.

And so, people are still out there on the streets. But having to walk past
this crime scene, and knowing what happened here, and that eight people
lost their lives here. As you can see behind me, we`re still blocked off.
There is an active crime scene investigation going on right now, because
there are still those unanswered questions. So, police combing through the
scene, trying to figure out exactly the path that this suspect took coming
down that bike path.

We know there was like a 15-block area along the path that he came down,
leaving victims all along the way, until he ultimately crashed and got out
of that rented truck and began trying to run and evade police.

We`ve talked to eyewitnesses here who say they heard the shots, police
taking him down, and they actually had to shield the kids that they were
picking up from school at that time, because this happened around 3:30 in
the afternoon. So telling some really terrible stories, and then the
carnage that they saw afterwards, strewn along that bike path. Tonight
also the investigation is going to Tampa, Florida, trying to figure out
what happened there with this suspect, to New Jersey where he rented that
truck and where he was apparently staying most recently.

So, a lot of unanswered questions, a lot of investigation going on. And
then a definite stepped-up police presence here in New York tonight, both
around this area, around the Halloween parade going on tonight. And then
in other tourist areas, police and authorities say they`re going to be very
visible tonight, Rachel.

MADDOW: Kristen, one question for you about that response. We`ve
obviously heard it was a uniformed New York police officer who was able to
confront and shoot the suspect which appears to have stopped the attack
when he was out of the truck. Do we know anything about what the immediate
police response was in terms of how quickly police were on the scene, where
the police officer may have been stationed where – I should, say, were he
or she was able to make this confrontation? Do we know anything about the
initial police response that stopped the attack?

DAHLGREN: We`re still learning more. That was apparently a patrol officer
who was on duty at the time and happened to be nearby, I`m not sure exactly
how close. But the eyewitnesses we were talking about to said that the
police presence was almost immediate.

They said as soon as they heard something going on and saw what was going
on, there were police around. You spend a lot of time around here, and in
New York, there often is a police officer not very far away, a block or two
blocks away, and the witnesses describing sort of the chaos that was going
on. I imagine that they would have gotten here very quickly.

MADDOW: Kristen Dahlgren, NBC news correspondent. Kristen, thank you for
helping us through this thing, much appreciated.

Joining us now here in studio is Bill Bratton, who was the New York City
police commissioner until last year.

Commissioner Bratton, thanks very much for coming in.


MADDOW: You just heard Kristen say, describing that, in that part of the
city, in that part of New York, you don`t have to go far to find a patrol
officer. What do you know today, and what have you been able to learn in
terms of the immediate police response, the way the police are handling
this, and what it means for this to be a joint police/FBI investigation
going forward?

BRATTON: On any day, New York City and particularly Manhattan is the most
heavily policed place in America, probably more so than Washington, D.C.
It`s something that the NYPD has consciously done since 9/11 in particular.
And down in the World Trade Center area, this awful tragedy, the idea that
it occurred within sight of those horrific events of now 16 years ago, it`s
so ironic.

MADDOW: Yes, this was like a mile from the Trade Center.

BRATTON: If not actually planned by this individual.

So, the fact that police response was so quick is not surprising. During
my time as police commissioner, we created two new units, critical response
command, SRG, almost 1,300 officers equipped with long guns, the ballistic
vest, the helmets –

MADDOW: What does SRG stand for?

BRATTON: Strategic Response Group.


BRATTON: They deal primarily with crowds, demonstrations, et cetera,
equipped, light, critical response command, which is a counterterrorism

The intent is that anywhere in New York City, within moments of a lone wolf
gunman, or something along that line, we can have teams of officers there
within five minutes with that equipment. But in anytime in New York City,
you can`t look around without seeing a police officer. The city has
invested a lot of money in that, 36,000 police officers.

As to the unfolding events down there today, the investigation is going to
be multifaceted. Right now, it involves apparently three states, Florida,
New Jersey, New York. The rollback investigations will attempt to recover,
does he have a computer, does he have a smart phone, did he have one with
him, try to get information from that.

Several news sources including the local news station here in network,
Channel 4, are reporting a note or notes were recovered at the scene,
indicating some type of allegiance to ISIS, which would be critical in the
investigation, because so many of these things are inspired by, enabled by,
or directed by, those are the three terms. This one would have been at a
minimum inspired by if not enabled by.

The investigation will also seek to determine does anybody else know about
this, was anybody else involved in the planning? And that`s critical to
try very early on to see are there other threats we need to be mindful of,
particularly with the half million people down there watching the Halloween
parade, literally 300 yards from where this occurred.

MADDOW: What do you make of the decision to go ahead with that event
tonight? Again, I`m somebody who lives in that part of the city, so I know
how big and how celebratory and how edgy that event can be, I mean that in
a positive way. To go ahead with that, I sort of feel like the spirit of
New York is that you press ahead with things like that, no matter what
happens. But the city did have to make a decision.

BRATTON: It`s the right thing to do. Boston Strong after the marathon,
New York, resilience, and undaunted, all the time, since 9/11, resilience
after every one of these incidents. And there`s been over two dozen
attempted efforts, Times Square attempted bombing and others.

And, also, Jimmy O`Neill his first day as commissioner after succeeding me,
he had a bombing incident down on 23rd Street.

MADDOW: Right. And the bomber just convicted in that case. Yes.

BRATTON: That`s correct. And now, 13 months later. The pace of these
attacks is increasing, also, which is of concern.

MADDOW: Because of NYPD is so big and capable and a multifaceted force, it
makes you ask different questions about the way they work than it would be
in a smaller locality. And I ask specifically about working with the FBI.
When the NYPD and the FBI work together, is there a force multiplier effect
between those two organizations that they get done more together than they
could separately? Or could the NYPD handle this on their own?

BRATTON: One of the things I take great pride in during my time as
commissioner, and now, continuing Jimmy, you`re not going to find a law
enforcement agency that does not say it works seamlessly with the NYPD.
That was not always the case. These issues, it`s critically important that
you have what you saw tonight at the news conference, Bill Sweeney from the
FBI, Jimmy O`Neill, the Joint Terrorism Task Force. They`ll quickly
determine whether this is to be led by the FBI, led by the NYPD.

But no matter who is leading, everybody is working all together. And that
is a force multiplier, because the FBI has the capability to reach down to
Florida, to reach to New Jersey. NYPD has the capability with 14
detectives, a program initiated by my predecessor, Ray Kelly, to reach out
overseas, who will be notified about of this type of incident, asking, do
you have information that might relate to this, and also giving information
to our allies overseas about what we know at this time, preliminary, but
trying to exchange as much information as possible.

MADDOW: Yes, New York City is – yes, the kind of city that has overseas

BRATTON: A special place.

MADDOW: Bill Bratton, former New York City Police commissioner until last
year, MSNBC senior law enforcement analyst – thank you, sir.

BRATTON: Thank you. Great to be with you.

MADDOW: Appreciate it. Always see you in difficult times, sir.

BRATTON: Unfortunately.


All right. We have a lot to get to tonight. Stay with us.


MADDOW: Eight people were killed, 11 more taken to the hospital today
after a suspect drove a rented truck down a very well-used, very popular
bike path in Lower Manhattan. The suspect was shot in the abdomen by
police. Tonight, he`s in a local hospital.

At this hour, WNBC in New York City is citing law enforcement officials and
saying that the man left a note in the rental truck that he used as a
weapon tonight, claiming that he was acting on behalf of ISIS.

Now, ISIS a couple of years ago did explicitly call in its propaganda
magazine for its followers to use trucks, specifically trucks, not cars,
not light SUVs, to run down pedestrians, to cause mass casualty events.
Officials today in New York City described an effort they`ve undertaken in
recent years to actually work with truck rental companies, trying to help
them spot suspicious customers who might have an attack like this in mind.
Over the past couple of years, officials said today they visited nearly 150
truck rental locations in the New York area.

They say they reached out again to those locations after the truck-borne
attack in Nice, France last summer, then again after the Christmas market
attack in Berlin that had some of these same hallmarks.

Tonight, Pete Williams of NBC News suggests that because the suspect in
today`s attack had not just a regular driver`s license but a truck driver`s
license, that suspect actually might have been more likely to get a truck
rental without facing a lot of questions from these anti-terror campaigns.

Now, despite the continued efforts to stop this kind of attack from
happening, tonight, those eight people have been killed, many more are
injured. And we still await claims either from ISIS or from anybody else
who may try to credibly claim this attack.

Joining us now is Rukmini Callimachi, foreign correspondent at “The New
York times” and an NBC contributor.

Rukmini, thanks for being here.


MADDOW: What do you make of these reports that there may have been a note
in the vehicle?

CALLIMACHI: That`s really telling. If there was indeed a note and if the
note as my colleagues at “The Times” are now reporting, pledges allegiance
to ISIS, it then really matches down to the T what “Rumiyah”, the English
language magazine of ISIS, called for in their issue of 2016. In that
issue they said, like you said, to use a truck, not an SUV, to mow down
pedestrians and to keep driving over them in order to cause the most
carnage until it`s not possible to continue. So, we know that he ran into
a bus that stopped him.

Then you`re supposed to go out on foot, use a secondary arm, whether it`s a
knife or some sort of other weapon or a gun, to continue hurting people.
And you`re supposed to leave a note behind. Those were the elements that
they laid out.

And if indeed there is this note, that seems to, you know, very much be in
line with that.

MADDOW: That sounds very much like the M.O of what happened at Ohio State
in 2016.

CALLIMACHI: Exactly. Ohio State, Berlin, and Nice are the main examples
that we look to.

MADDOW: And each of those had, at least some of those elements that were



CALLIMACHI: So, it started in Nice, Berlin, and now New York, is using the
large truck. Before, we`ve also seen with smaller cars. But in general,
those are not as deadly.

MADDOW: Now, one of the things that I`ve learned from you in your coverage
of ISIS is that ISIS typically does not like to claim responsibility for
attacks when the attacker is still alive, particularly when the attacker is
in custody.


MADDOW: Explain again why that is and how that may apply to this

CALLIMACHI: The reality, Rachel, is we don`t know why they do this. The
speculation is they don`t want to do this because if they claim him now,
then it complicates his case when he goes before a jury, which this young
man will likely do.


CALLIMACHI: Think back to the Chelsea attack not long ago. That person
wounded over two dozen. In the diary that we found on his person when he
was taken in, it specifically referenced Abu Muhammad al-Adnani, who is the
spokesman of ISIS and who is calling for attacks in the West. So, they had
every reason to claim that attack, we knew that was terrorism. And yet
they never did.

MADDOW: Right. They never did. He was taken into custody, he was just

CALLIMACHI: And he was just convicted, exactly.

MADDOW: And he claims he was acting on behalf of ISIS. ISIS does not
claim him.

CALLIMACHI: ISIS does not claim him.

MADDOW: And in this case, we`ve had no claims of responsibility from ISIS
or any other group.

CALLIMACHI: No, we`ve had no claims of responsibility. What is curious is
just yesterday, ISIS put out a banner that they translated into four
languages, French, Russian, English, and German, calling for attacks on
Halloween. They do this quite frequently.

MADDOW: Attacks in the United States on Halloween?

CALLIMACHI: They didn`t say Halloween – they didn`t say the United
States. The picture showed the Eiffel Tower.

So, you can read whatever you want into that. But it was yesterday, and
Halloween is an American holiday. What`s odd about that banner is number
one, it was translated multiple times, so that shows they were really
trying to get it out there. And it had a date, usually their banners say,
attack Paris, attack London, and there`s no date.

This one said Halloween, October 31st. So, it was very specific. I don`t
know if there`s a tie there. If this is indeed an inspired attack, perhaps
he was responding to that.

MADDOW: And the suspect named in this case, they`re describing as a 29-
year-old Uzbek-born man.


MADDOW: Does his Uzbek nationality say anything to you in terms of central
ISIS affiliation or anything else?

CALLIMACHI: It does, in the sense that the most recent figures we have
from a Soufan Group report that just came out a couple of days ago
regarding the number of foreign fighters, they say that around 40,000
people from all over the world join ISIS, and the region that sent the most
foreign fighters is the former Soviet republics.

Uzbekistan is one of the nationalities of the Istanbul airport attackers.
And around five or six people from American that went to join ISIS we know
were Uzbek nationals.

The thing I cautioned is we know that this person immigrated here legally
in 2010. I don`t want to suggest that this person joined ISIS and
returned, only that there is a preponderance of people from that part of
the world that seem to have been taken in by the message of this group.

MADDOW: Rukmini Callimachi is foreign correspondent from “The New York
Times” who focuses on ISIS, al Qaeda and Islamic terrorism – Rukmini, we
always see you under terrible circumstances, but thank you for being here.
Appreciate it.

CALLIMACHI: Thank you, Rachel.

MADDOW: All right. We got much more to come tonight including the latest
on a batch of documents that was unsealed by a federal district court
tonight in the criminal case against the Trump campaign manager. We were
not expecting this docket to get unsealed tonight. It was unsealed
tonight, it is very substantive. And that story is ahead.

Stay with us.


MADDOW: So we`re continuing to monitor the situation in Lower Manhattan
tonight, where an apparent terrorist attack has claimed eight lives and a
suspect is in custody. Eleven people are in the hospital.

We do want to let you know about some other news that broke late this
evening as we were preparing to get on the air, though. Somewhat
unexpectedly, the federal court in Washington, D.C. tonight unsealed the
docket in the federal criminal case that`s been launched against Trump
campaign chairman Paul Manafort and Trump campaign official Rick Gates.
Now, the indictment against Manafort and Gates was filed with the court on
Friday last week and sealed on that day. It was unsealed yesterday
morning, which is how we all learned about the government`s 12 felony
charges and the narrative of the special counsel`s case against Paul
Manafort and Rick Gates.

But then tonight, without warning, they unsealed a whole bunch of other
documents in relation to that case. And the unsealed docket, as of tonight
you can now see the arrest warrant for Paul Manafort and the arrest warrant
for Rick Gates. The two of them were taken into custody yesterday morning.

But then they were not put in jail. They were released. And it turns out
they were released on very different terms.

You can see here on this document, this is the one that relates to Gates.
This is defendant Richard Gates here. He was released on his own personal
recognizance. Richard Gates was allowed to go home. The terms of release
are that he is not allowed to apply for a passport. He is required to stay
at home. That`s the phrase there, permanent home confinement you see
handwritten there.

He is allowed to leave home if he needs to meet with counsel, meet with his
lawyers or attend religious services or attend to any medical emergencies.
He also needs to check in daily by phone with the court in the eastern
district of Virginia. So, those are the terms of Rick Gates` release after
he was taken into custody. He`s released on his own personal recognizance.
He has to stay home, has to check in by phone once a day.

Those appear not to be the terms on which his co-defendant, Paul Manafort,
has been released. As you can see, Paul Manafort`s release form looks
quite different. Paul Manafort is not described being released on his own
personal recognizance. His form says he was released into a high intensity
supervision program of the pretrial service agency at the district court in

Now, the handwritten instructions on his release form for Manafort, they
are similar to those on Gates` form. Manafort is instructed to remain on
permanent home confinement. He`s allowed to leave home only for visits to
attorneys or visits to court, or medical emergencies, or religious
services. He`s also, like Rick Gates, he`s instructed to report daily by

But for Manafort, this high intensity supervision program appears to be the
kind of program that includes people wearing an electronic monitoring
device, which presumably means an ankle bracelet or something. It`s not
explicitly clear from this form that Manafort has been assigned an ankle
bracelet or some other kind of electronic monitor. But that is definitely
the kind of program that he has been signed up for.

Now, in addition to getting the reach warrants for Manafort and Gates and
the terms on which they were released, the government also made public a
new, very substantive, 17-page document we`ve never seen before. And in
this document, the government notifies them about the terms of the
speediness of their trial. It tells them that foreign bank records are
going to be used in making the case against them.

Then it also makes the case at length for why these release terms should be
this strict. Why these guys might represent a flight risk and need this
kind of supervision. And the document is kind of a doozy.

Here`s how the special counsel`s office opens up this case. Here`s how
they explain why they think Manafort and Gates are flight risks. Quote:
The defendants pose a risk of flight based on the serious nature of the
charges, their history of deceptive and misleading conduct, the potentially
significant sentences the defendants face, the strong evidence of guilt,
their significant financial resources, and their foreign connections.

OK, financial resources and foreign connections. The special counsel`s
office then lays out a whole bunch of new information that was not in the
indictment against Manafort and Gates about their foreign advertise, about
them having the financial means to flee the country, to evade this
prosecution if they wanted to. You know, a lot was made in the press
yesterday, a lot was made by the White House yesterday about the fact there
was no mention of Russia in the indictment of Paul Manafort and Rick Gates.
But here in this indictment unsealed tonight, there is definitely mention
of Russia.

You`ll recall in the indictment yesterday, the special counsel`s office
laid out a big long list of foreign bank accounts. Those foreign bank
accounts are a key player in all the criminal charges that Paul Manafort
and Rick Gates are facing. Everything from not reporting their foreign
bank accounts to the IRS, to using those accounts to shield their foreign
income from taxes, those foreign bank accounts are also key to the
allegations of money laundering, using expensive pieces of real estate and
money moving in and out of those foreign accounts.

Well, what Mueller`s office has unsealed tonight with this federal court in
D.C. is a new allegation that it was not just Paul Manafort and Rick Gates
who controlled those foreign bank accounts, it was also, quote, a Russian
national. I`ll quote to you from what the court unsealed tonight, quote,
the indictment sets forth and charges the defendants with engaging in a
long running and complex scheme to funnel millions of dollars into the
United States through various entities and accounts in Cyprus, the
Grenadine, Seychelles, and England, owned or controlled by the defendants
worldwide and passed through a series of foreign accounts.

Manafort, Gates, and a Russian national who was a longstanding employee of
Davis Manafort Partners served as the beneficial owners and signatories on
these accounts. Russian national.

I think we can surmise from news reports that the Russian national in
question here may be Konstantin Kilimnik, who is a Russian-born associate
of Paul Manafort and Rick Gates, who is lovingly nicknamed Kostya from the
GRU. Kostya, meaning a shorthand name for Konstantin, from the GRU,
meaning he used to work for the Russian military intelligence service.

Konstantin Kilimnik used to widely brag about his background in Russian
military intelligence, before he went to work for Paul Manafort. The
government`s unsealed documents that have just been released tonight allege
that this Russian national who work with Paul Manafort and Rick Gates was
also an owner and signatory on their foreign bank accounts that are
detailed in the criminal indictment against these two officials.

Two pages later in the section of these documents tonight, the section
that`s marked ties abroad and frequent travel, special counsel`s office
tonight makes another brand-new and sort of eye popping allegation against
Paul Manafort and Rick Gates.

Quote: Both defendants have substantial ties abroad including Ukraine where
both have served as agents of its government. Davis Manafort International
which Manafort owned and where Gates worked had staff in Kiev, in Ukraine,
and in Moscow, and both Manafort and Gates have connections to Ukrainian
and Russian oligarchs who have provided millions of dollars to Manafort and
Gates. The foreign connections of this kind indicate that the defendants
would have access to funds and an ability to live comfortably abroad, a
consideration that strongly suggests risk of flight.

So, this is the special counsel going on record in court filings saying
Paul Manafort and Rick Gates were paid millions of dollars by Russian

And I may be wrong about this, but I think this is also the first official
representation by the government that Manafort`s business was staffed up in
Moscow. Manafort himself has always described his business as operating in
Ukraine. He`s always described himself as having no Russian business ties.
But the special counsel is now saying in this court filing that Manafort
was paid millions of dollars by Russian oligarchs and that his business had
staff in Moscow.

Now, again, the purpose of this document is pretty specific. This is
listing the special counsel`s evidence that Paul Manafort and Rick Gates
should be strictly supervised, that they should be on permanent home
confinement, as it says in the terms of their release. Part of the way the
government argues for that is by describing the financial resources that
Manafort and Gates have at their disposal if either of them ever did decide
to flee.

What`s interesting about this declaration from the special counsel is that
it sounds like they have tracked down every last iota of financial
information about Manafort and Gates. And part of what they have turned up
thus far is that Manafort and Gates have each made wildly different public
representations as to how much they`re worth, as to how much money they

Well, start with Gates here, and then we`ll do Manafort after. Here`s what
this document unsealed by the court tonight says about Gates. Quote,
recently, in a February 2016 application for a line of credit, Gates listed
his and his wife`s net worth as $30 million. He listed his own liquid net
worth as $25 million.

That said, other documents provide conflicting information. One month
after that credit line application in March 2016, Gates made a residential
loan application in which he listed his total assets and that of his wife
as 90 percent less than that, listed his total assets and that of his wife
as approximately $2.6 million, one tenth of what he had said just the
previous month.

In connection with the loan in 2011, Gates estimated his total assets to be
approximately $2.2 million. So wildly different representations by Rick
Gates as to how much money he had, whatever that means.

But check out what they say about Manafort. Quote, Manafort`s financial
holdings are substantial if difficult to quantify precisely because of his
varying representations. Manafort has represented the value of his assets
on loan applications and other financial documents in divergent amounts.

For example, in November 2016 and January 2017, he said his net assets were
approximately $25 million. But before that, in August 2016, he listed the
value of his assets as $63 million. And in a different application, also
that same month, in August 2016, he listed his assets as $28 million.
Three months before that, he represented his assets to be $42 million. The
month before that, he represented his assets to be – excuse me – his
assets to be $48 million. The previous year in April 2015, he said he was
worth $35 million.

And maybe all of this is true, maybe between March 2016 when he joined the
Trump campaign and two months later, Paul Manafort did triple his net worth
and then somehow three months later, by the time he was getting kicked off
the Trump campaign, he lost $100 million. Maybe it`s true and it`s been a
mad rollercoaster of Paul Manafort in terms of his net assets.

But these new filings unsealed by the special counsel`s office and the
court tonight show you at the very least, the special counsel has got
valuations of the assets and holdings of Paul Manafort and Rick Gates from
multiple different sources going back years and years and years. They`ve
got their loan applications. They`ve got other kinds of loan applications.
They`ve got credit line applications. They`ve got it all.

The government in this document unsealed by the court tonight, they argue
that the case should be treated as a complex case. It shouldn`t be rushed
to a conclusion under the constitutional requirements that you get a speedy
trial. It doesn`t seem like they had a hard fight on that, they note in
one footnote that Manafort`s counsel has agreed that the case should be
treated as a complex case.

But in making their argument to the court for why that should happen, the
special counsel explains that this is a criminal case in which the
government will be relying on, and I quote, hundreds of thousands of
documents, quote, both from the United States and abroad. And an assertion
that is probably blowing like a cold wind through the White House tonight,
the special counsel`s office also asserts their case against Manafort and
Gates will include not only bank records but also tax filings.

So, we don`t know exactly if the president`s campaign chairman is wearing
an ankle bracelet tonight. We think he might be. We know that he`s been
released to a home confinement under a high intensity supervision program.
The special counsel`s office has now declared Manafort has a history of
receiving millions of dollars from Russian oligarchs. And they say their
overseas bank accounts are shared with a Russian national, who elsewhere we
believe to have bragged that he had Russian military intelligence

And the special counsel has put Gates and Manafort and by extension anybody
else involved in this case, put them all on notice now that their – the
special counsel`s efforts to track this stuff down includes them going
through both foreign and domestic bank records and also tax filings.
They`ve got their taxes.

So, these documents just unsealed by the court tonight, we`ll get a little
bit of help later this hour as to whether or not this is a normal looking
declaration from prosecutors, but from a layman`s perspective, A, this is a
lot of new information, and B, this seems brutal.


MADDOW: So, as we`ve been reporting, new documents unsealed tonight by a
court in Washington, D.C. concerning the arrest warrants and the terms of
release for the president`s campaign chairman Paul Manafort and his long
time associate Rick Gates, both Manafort and Gates are confined to their
homes, we now know. Gates was released on personal recognizance. Manafort
was released under a high intensity supervision program which may include
him wearing an electronic monitoring device. Remarkable on its own terms,
just to have the sitting president`s campaign manager in that situation,

But it`s remarkable in a smaller way because Gates and Manafort have worked
together for years and years and years. They`ve just been indicted
together in a 12-count felony indictment. But they`re not necessarily
handling their legal jeopardy in the same way.

Here`s something to know about these guys. At his indictment yesterday
morning, Rick Gates does not appear to have had a lawyer. He was not
represented by counsel. Just in case you were wondering if this indictment
had come as a surprise. We expect Rick Gates will be represented by a
lawyer when he turns up to court on Thursday. But when he was indicted, he
was alone.

Here`s something else we`ve learned tonight as well. The president today
did his best today to downplay the role and importance of the campaign
official whose guilty plea was also unsealed by the special counsel in the
court yesterday. Although the president himself had unveiled George
Papadopoulos as a foreign adviser to the campaign at a meeting with “The
Washington Post” last year. Today, the president derided Papadopoulos, as
a, quote, young low level volunteer who few people knew.

That distancing strategy is something we`ve seen repeatedly from the
president. It`s about to be tested in this case. Whether or not George
Papadopoulos was himself an important figure on the campaign, the documents
unsealed by the court appear to show him reporting to senior campaign
officials frequently about his ongoing interactions with Russians during
the campaign.

The documents that Mueller`s team have appear to show Trump campaign
officials encouraging George Papadopoulos to keep up those contacts with

Well, tonight NBC News reports that the person who is described as George
Papadopoulos` campaign supervisor, a man named Sam Clovis, who was national
co-chair of the Trump campaign, chief policy adviser to the Trump campaign,
Sam Clovis last week met with Robert Mueller`s investigators. And NBC News
reports tonight that Sam Clovis has also testified to the grand jury in
this investigation.

So, if the Trump White House decides they want to keep distancing
themselves from people who have turned up in the Russia investigation,
distancing themselves from Sam Clovis is going to be particularly
difficult, given not only that he was a national co-chair of the campaign
but also that they have nominated him to a senior position at the U.S.
Department of Agriculture, for which Sam Clovis is supposed to face Senate
confirmation next week, which is probably going to be very, very awkward

Joining us is Joyce Vance. She`s a former U.S. attorney for the great
state of Alabama.

Ms. Vance, thank you very much for being with us. I really appreciate you
being here.

JOYCE VANCE, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: Thanks for having me, Rachel.

MADDOW: So reading this document tonight that was unsealed by the court,
this is a representation – first, there`s the warrant, then there`s the
terms of confinement under which Gates and Manafort were released. But
then there`s this 17-page document from the special counsel`s office in
which they make the case that they believe that these terms of release are
warranted, that Gates and Manafort both represent a flight risk.

Is it surprising that the special counsel makes a whole bunch of new
allegations and representations of fact in that filing?

VANCE: So at this stage in a case, the government can ask the court to
detain defendants pending trial. They didn`t do that here, noting that the
case law didn`t support it because they`re American citizens. But
Mueller`s prosecutors do make a full-court press in an effort to put
sufficient conditions upon the release to ensure that the defendants will
show up at trial.

It`s not an unusual type of approach for prosecutors to take. But the
information in this document – I think you did a great layout. You
probably could have convinced a federal judge to impose these conditions
the way you went through the information in the opening.

The specific facts are really remarkable, including the new news that Paul
Manafort had three different passports with three different numbers, that
he was using a phone that he obtained in an alias name for foreign travel.
This is a real effort by Andrew Wiseman and the other lawyers on this team
to tell the judge that without monitoring and other significant steps, they
fear that these defendants will flee the country before trial.

MADDOW: I was struck. I read these documents in the order in which they
came out. So, I read the arrest warrant first and then the terms of
release, and then I read the government`s argument about it. I was
surprised at first that there were different terms of release for Gates and

Manafort appears to be subject to more intensive monitoring, including what
appears to be an electronic device of some kind. By the time I got the end
of the government`s case, though, I was surprised that they would release
Manafort at all given what they say about his means and motive to flee, to
get away from this prosecution.

VANCE: It is a little bit surprising. But because the case law talks in
terms of citizenship in assessing flight risk, Manafort has significant
ties to this community. The government apparently felt certain that it
could obtain his presence with these conditions. It`s hard to tell if it
is in fact an ankle bracelet monitoring system. There is some different
technology involved.

But typically, these bracelets send a signal to a phone so that the
probation officer is aware simultaneously if you get a little too far away
from the telephone system in your home. And apparently, they felt like
they had the capability to monitor that system and assure that he didn`t
leave his home, flee the country.

MADDOW: Just remarkable that we`re talking in these terms about the
sitting president`s campaign chairman.

Joyce Vance, former U.S. attorney from Alabama, thank you very much for
helping us understand these new documents tonight. Really appreciate it.

VANCE: Thanks.

MADDOW: All right. We`ll be right back. Stay with us.


MADDOW: We do not yet have the names of the eight people who were killed
and the 11 more who were seriously injured in the apparent terror attack
today in New York City. We don`t have a timeline for getting those names
either. But we are beginning to get some general information about the
victims, because of the location of this attack and how that bike path is
typically used, there were worries early on that some of the people killed
and hurt would end up being tourist or at least visitors from abroad.
Those worries are bearing out.

The foreign minister of Belgium tonight says he is saddened to announce
that one Belgian was among the eight people killed. He says another three
people from Belgium were among the injured.

We`re also now seeing unconfirmed media reports from Argentina that four
people from Argentina were killed in today`s attack. Again, that`s
unconfirmed reports from the Argentinean media.

Because this is New York, though, part of the citizen response has been to
get out there and carry on. There is extra police and security in place.
But the annual huge hundreds of thousands strong Halloween parade in Lower
Manhattan is out in full force tonight, as you`d expect in this city.

We`ll be right back.


MADDOW: Despite unified Republican control in Washington, the new
administration has not been able to pass anything substantive through
Congress since President Trump has been in office. They had tried a lot of
different stuff. They tried over and over and over and over and over and
over and over and over again to get rid of the Affordable Care Act, and
they failed every time.

This week was supposed to be their next big push, the most important push
of all, tax reform. That was supposed to be this week. Tax reform week.

So far, this week has been about the Trump campaign manager getting
indicted and arrested and the special counsel investigation, along with a
guilty plea from a Trump foreign policy adviser for lying to the FBI.

But the White House has soldiered on. They`ve been insisting they`re going
to get their tax bill out there. It`s coming out on tomorrow. The
deadline is Wednesday. It`s coming out on Wednesday.

It`s now no longer going to be out on Wednesday. They now say they`re
pushing the deadline back until Thursday maybe. We don`t know exactly.
It`s their own deadline. We do know they`re going to miss it. We know
they`re trying.

That does it for us tonight. We`ll see you again tomorrow.


Good evening, Lawrence.



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