The Rachel Maddow Show, Transcript 11/10/2016

Elizabeth Warren

Date: November 10, 2016
Guest: Elizabeth Warren


Good evening, Rachel.

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST: Good evening, Chris. Thanks, my friend.

HAYES: You bet.

MADDOW: And thanks to you at home for joining us this hour.

Things look a little bit different in my immediate ambient presence, that`s
because I`m in Boston tonight. And the reason I`m in Boston tonight is
because Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren is going be joining me live
right here, shortly, for her first TV interview since Donald Trump was
elected to be the next president of the United States.

Elizabeth Warren is here for her first TV interview since the election.
Very excited about that. That is coming up momentito.

But first, story time. And like lots of good fictional stories, this one
starts with a song.


SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: That old Beach Boys song, bomb Iran. Bomb,
bomb, bomb – anyway.


MADDOW: When Arizona Senator John McCain was running for president in
2008, he was asked about the contentious issue of our relationship with
Iran. He was running for president at the time, but he nevertheless
responded to that question by singing “bomb, bomb Iran” to the tune of Bar-
Barbara Ann.

It was – I mean, it was funny in a way. Bar-Barbara Ann, bomb, bomb. But
it was also settling because he was running for president and people were
listening and he was talking about bombing Iran and he thought it was
hilarious and it was –

When John McCain was running for president in 2008, this was four and five
years into the war in Iraq 2007, 2008, and there was a lot of American
anxiety at the time about how the war in Iraq was going and how long it had
been and how long we were going to stay and why we were ever going to get
out and when and honestly, why are we there in first place?

And John McCain said during that campaign while he was running for
president, that as far as he was concerned, war in Iraq that went on 100
years, that would be OK with him. He was asked a clarifying question on
that a few days later. He revised that to say actually he`d be OK with a
thousand year war in Iraq.

When John McCain was running for president in 2008, Russian troops crossed
the border into a tiny Eurasian nation called Georgia. John McCain
responded to that little war there by saying that he knew he spoke for
every American when he said, about that Russian war in Georgia, quote, “I
know I speak for every American when I say today we are all Georgians.”
Meaning, we are all at war with Russia the way Georgia is.

I don`t know that he spoke for every American when he said that. But he
really was suggesting as a presidential candidate that the United States,
in spirit at least, was with war at Russia, that we wanted to be at war
with Russia. At that moment, we should be at war with Russia because of
what Russia had done to this country, Georgia.

And, you know, I don`t defend what Russia did with Georgia, but Russia is
no small thing when it comes to having a war, right? Us having a war with
Russia, right? That`s a big deal.

While John McCain was running for president, there were these few instances
when he said things that I think made people a little skittish about how he
felt about getting us into wars or keeping us in wars. I think
particularly people were a little worried about how psyched he seemed to be
at the prospect of a war with Russia.

You might remember, this is a time when President George W. Bush had
famously said he looked into Vladimir Putin`s eyes and he saw a man he
could trust. He said he had seen Vladimir Putin`s soul by looking into his

When John McCain was running for president in 2008, he was mostly allied
with George W. Bush, right, they were of the same party, sort of the same
marching order, but this is how he talked about Vladimir Putin.


MCCAIN: Putin, my friends, I looked into Putin`s eyes and I saw three
letters, a K, a G and a B. That`s what I saw.


MADDOW: So, that`s how John McCain used to talk about Russia and Putin. I
mean, that`s how he sort of frequently threatened or promised war with
Russia while he was running for president in 2008. In this story time
story, what`s truly amazing after all that is what happened next in that
2008 presidential campaign, which is that in this story, in this story
time, the Russian government freaked out about that. They`re very worried
about the prospect of bomb, bomb McCain becoming president of the United
States, totally hostile with Putin, ready to go to war with the slightest
provocation, even a slight provocation involving some country with which we
had no connection whatsoever.

And so, in this story, what the Russian government did when they freaked
out about the prospect of John McCain becoming president of the United
States, in this story, what the Russian government did is they hacked into
the RNC, they hacked into the John McCain campaign`s e-mail servers, and
they stole and published tense of thousands of internal John McCain
campaign documents and they published tens of thousands of internal
Republican National Committee documents about John McCain and about the
McCain campaign. It was all just designed to expose and unnerve and
publicly embarrass him.

All this stuff that they stole, they hacked it and they stole it and they
leaked it, all of it showed infighting. It showed negotiating about what
policy positions this supposedly principled politician would take in order
to get the maximum political benefit out of it. They published some nasty
personal internal stuff, fights and messy decision-making about John
McCain`s would be vice presidential running mate, right, Sarah Palin.

Russia stole all those documents by hacking the servers in this story and
the American intelligence community in this story, they caught them in the
act, the American intelligence community announced publicly that they
caught them, that Russia, former Soviet Union was playing a huge
psychological operation on the American people to influence their election.
They`d stolen these developments, they were releasing them during the
course of the campaign to influence the opinion of the American public so
Russia would get its preferred candidate in the election, its preferred
candidate, not John McCain.

And in this story, though, even though they got caught, that Russian op to
try to basically influence our pick of the next president of the United
States, in this story seems like it worked. At least as far as we can tell
it worked. You`re never able to tease out all the reasons why any
candidate lost one particular election in this story. You`re not able to
perfectly tease out all the reasons why “bomb, bomb” McCain lost in 2008.

But in this story, this Russian op to hurt John McCain, it undoubtedly hurt
him, might have hurt him enough to cost him the presidency. But in this
story, that`s not the end. I mean, if that whole saga thus far is not John
le Carre on crack for you, what happens next in this story is even weirder
and more nuts and more unnerving, because in this story, the day after that
presidential election where Russia intervened apparently to try to defeat
John McCain, keep him from becoming president, in this story, the day after
that election, we were hit with news about the election we had just gone
through and the news we were hit with the day after the election was way
more unnerving than anything we had learned before.

I mean, even with what the intelligence community had already told us
about, right, what we learned the day after the election was way worse. It
was an order of magnitude worse. All right?

I mean, here`s the situation. Russia didn`t want McCain as president.
Russia hacked and stole documents, released them to the public to try to
make McCain lose the election. U.S. intelligence caught them, but they
weren`t able to stop them. Russia really did apparently influence that
outcome. That`s all bad enough.

But then, but then, but then in this story, the day after John McCain lost
that election, thanks, Russia, the Russian government admitted publicly,
they bragged publicly that they had been in contact with John McCain`s
opponent in that election the whole time.

In this story, Russia admitted the day after that election that they had
been in contact with the Barack Obama campaign. During the campaign, the
whole time they were running that psychological operation on the American
people to try to influence our election, they`d been in contact with John
McCain`s opponent, the Russians had, quote, “despite repeated denials by
the candidate`s advisers that any – excuse me, despite repeated denials by
the candidate`s advisers, Russia said it was in contact with the president-
elect`s team during the U.S. election campaign.” “There were contacts
before the election”, said the Russian deputy foreign minister.

Think about how that story would have blown up if this were a true thing,
if this were a true story, if the Obama campaign had been in cahoots with a
foreign power during the election, they`d been in contact with Russia
secretly throughout the campaign against John McCain while Russia was
interfering in our election to screw with John McCain. And think about –
I mean, in this story when we learned that on day one, President-elect
Barack Obama we also learned that it wasn`t over, the Russian government
that day bragged on the extent of the context they have, the extent of the
contacts between the Russian government and the campaign of this Barack
Obama who had just been elected. They talked about quite a few members of
the president-elect`s campaign staff staying in touch with Russian

Imagine if that was day one of Barack Obama being president-elect. Imagine
if that was how Barack Obama came to Washington. I mean, it turns out it`s
not how Barack Obama came to Washington.

Storytime is over. That never happened in 2008 with John McCain and Barack

But what I just described is exactly how day one went for President-elect
Donald Trump. That exact thing just happened on day one.

I mean, today`s headlines were dominated by this. President Obama has been
unusually aggressive in planning for the presidential transition. The
Obama White House started planning it a year ago because they wanted to
make sure to get it right no matter who the next president was going to be.

It`s interesting. It`s going fast, too. When George W. Bush invited
President-elect Obama to the White House six days after the `08 election,
that was seen unusually fast for a first meeting after the election. Obama
was at the White House meeting George W. six days after that election. Six
days. That was seen as very fast.

This time, Obama made it not quite a day and a half, just a day and a half
before he had Donald Trump up to the White House. So, it was seen as fast
before, it`s lightning now. The transition is starting.

And protests continue to spring up around the country in response to the
shock election results where in particular tonight watching large protests
in Baltimore and a few other cities around the country, as these basically
organic, spontaneous protests continue to erupt, as protesters converge on
Trump Tower where President-elect Donald Trump still lives in Midtown
Manhattan. His transition team has physically moved to D.C. and the
transition is under way.

And one of the things that`s really, really important about that, about the
transition, perhaps this year above all other years, is that the transition
being under way right now means that Donald Trump is getting his first real
access to high level American intelligence information. This is no longer
just the generic overview he got in the candidate`s briefing during the
campaign. He`s now getting, as far as we know, the president`s daily
brief, which includes things typically like covert actions taken in secret
by the U.S. government and the U.S. military, actions designed to never be
disclosed to public and to other countries.

Top secret operations, top secret surveillance, unbelievably proprietary
close held data that you and I will never know about, that even the vast
majority of the upper-most people in government will never know about. I
mean, remember, the whole reason we got this briefing process in first
place is because FDR freaking died right after he got re-elected in 1945,
and when Vice President Harry Truman got sworn in as president thereafter
no one told Truman we had the atomic bomb until after he`d been president
for a few days. When Truman became president, he had no idea that we had

That`s why we started briefing candidates for president and presidents-
elect on their way into the Oval Office. So, nobody would be blindsided
the way Truman was. Now, there are these top secret briefings that go to
the president of the United States.

And as of today, President-elect Donald Trump gets them, too. And today,
the Russian government said it was in contact all along with the Trump
campaign during the time that the U.S. intelligence agencies say the
Russian government was interfering in our election and leaking all the
documents from the Hillary Clinton campaign and from the Democratic Party,
dribbling out this massive document leak against Clinton in a way that
undoubtedly lengthened her odds against Donald Trump in the U.S.
presidential campaign, during the time that U.S. intelligence says that was

The Russian government today said their contacts with the Trump campaign
not only existed during time of the campaign but they`ve continued all this
time. What was the quote there? Quite a few members of the Trump

Imagine if something like this had been disclosed ever about any other
presidential candidate or any other president-elect? Imagine if something
like this was disclosed, publicly admitted by the Russian government when
Barack Obama had just beaten John McCain and Barack Obama was on his way
into the White House. Imagine what would have happened had we learned
about what the Russian government says are leaks about that campaign and
about that hostile foreign power that intervened in our election to try to
pick the U.S. president. That is now what has happened with the Trump

And now, because he`s president-elect, the U.S. intelligence community has
to decide what they`re going to tell him, what would you do? What would
you tell him?

For example, would you tell him about any spies that we`ve got working for
us inside the Russian government? Or inside the Russian military?

American pilots are making bombing runs in Syria these days. We`re
actively military engaged in a part of the Syrian civil war. Russia,
depending on how you define it, is sort of on the other side of that
conflict. They`ve got their one creaky old aircraft carrier over there in
the Syrian theater and everything.

Let`s say hypothetically that we`ve got some incredible intel on how we`re
going to outflank Russia in that military fight or we`ve got some
incredible intel about what Russia is going to do next because we`ve got a
spy high up in the Russian government that has secretly fed us that
information unbeknownst to the Russian government. Let`s say that
information is really important for American national security, for
American military strategy for other things we`re doing in the region that
all hinge on this one secret that we stole from the Russian government and
they don`t know that we`ve got it?

Would you tell President-elect Donald Trump that information? Would you
tell him the name of the spy that we`ve got in Putin`s inner circle?
Hypothetically. Do you tell him hypothetically what the cyber command is
going to do to nuke Putin`s personal secret bank accounts in retaliation
for him hacking into our election? Do you tell him?

If you`re the U.S. intelligence community, can you trust the president-
elect with that information?

Quote, “Russia said it was in contact with President-elect Donald Trump`s
team during the U.S. election campaign despite repeated denials by the
Republican candidate`s advisers.” Quote, “There were contacts before the
election says,” Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov. Quote, “We
continue this work, of course,” he said, “without giving details of what
the contacts were.”

That really happened today. Imagine how that would have shot through the
political system in 2008 had this been Barack Obama we`re talking about in
the race against John McCain and not Donald Trump in his race against
Hillary Clinton.

There are elements of the U.S. government particularly on the national
security side that in one way or another, they persist through the comings
and goings of different administrations, right? But even though the
agencies of the national security apparatus and the military and the
intelligence field, they`re staffed by mostly career folks who stay there
year in and year out no matter who the president is, ultimately, all those
agencies really do – really do in a specific way answer to the president.
And in a certain reductive way, all of the intelligence agencies in the
unite, this multibillion dollar apparatus we`ve got, it all exists
specifically to provide information to one person, to the president, to
steal secrets about the world, to steal secrets from other countries in
order to help the president make high level decisions that no one else is
empowered to make and no one else is trusted to make.

Sensitive intelligence information, it`s compartmentalized. The most
sensitive isn`t just compartmentalized, it`s incredibly, incredibly closely
held, but the most closely held anything, the president can see it. The
president gets to see everything.

This president-elect said he would plan to meet with Russian President
Vladimir Putin after this election, even while President Obama is still in
office. The two candidate classified briefings that this president-elect
got during the campaign, both of those reportedly included detailed
information on the Russian government hacking to influence our election
after both of those briefings from the intelligence community, Donald Trump
said publicly he didn`t believe the intelligence, he didn`t believe the
agencies. It was a bogus claim, it was made up, it was just public

Donald Trump`s most prominent adviser with intelligence related credentials
is retired general Michael Flynn who was forced out of his job as director
of the defense intelligence agency recently, and who last year dined –
there he is – with Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Trump`s last campaign manager before Kellyanne Conway, Paul Manafort, he
ran an investment fund for a Russian aluminum mogul who`s a close friend,
close associate of Vladimir Putin. Paul Manafort was fired as Trump`s
campaign manager after his name turned up on secret handwritten ledgers
that show that a pro-Putin despot in Ukraine had paid him millions of
dollars for political services of some kind.

And now, at a time when the U.S. intelligence agencies say that Russia was
running a psy-op, a psychological operation to influence us, to influence
the U.S. election and pick the next president, now, Russian says it was in
contact with the Trump campaign while it ran that op effectively against
Hillary Clinton.

So, if you`re the U.S. intelligence community, if you`re the director of
the CIA, if you are the director of national intelligence, today, what did
you tell him? I mean, as of today, what do you do? Do you give Donald
Trump as of today our best sources, our best methods, our most secret stuff
about Russia?

Do you give him our best dirt on Putin? Our biggest plans about Putin?
Tell him about our spies in Putin`s government?

And what do you do if you`re President Obama right now deciding exactly how
you`re going to hand over these keys?

We are in uncharted territory in so many ways.

Elizabeth Warren is here tonight live, next. Stay with us.


MADDOW: Today, Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders said he would not rule out
running again in 2020. He said, quote, “Four years is a long time from
now. We`ll take one thing at a time, but I`m not ruling out anything.”

Senator Sanders undoubtedly has a huge role to play in the next iteration
of liberal politics in this country, but it is also an inescapable truth
that in 2020, Senator Sanders will be 79 years old.

Donald Trump is already the oldest person ever elected to the presidency.
He`ll be even older than Ronald Reagan was when he was sworn in in January,
he`ll be 70 years old. Senator Sanders right now is already 75 years old.

Since Donald Trump was elected to the presidency this week, we`ve heard a
little bit from senator sanders who released a statement in response to the
election results. He said today in a radio interview that he endorses
Minnesota Congressman Keith Ellison to be the new chair of the Democratic
Party, which is interesting.

So, since Trump`s election we`ve heard from Senator Sanders. We`ve heard
from Hillary Clinton in her concession speech, we`ve heard from President
Obama and his gracious remarks from the White House, wishing all the best
of luck to his successor.

But when I think about what`s about to happen next in the Democratic Party,
what happens next in politics for all of us in a way but specifically for
Democrats and liberals in this new era we`re now in, the new era of
President Trump, the one person I really, really, really want to hear from
yet who I`ve not heard from yet is Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren.

Luckily for us, she`s here tonight.

Senator, thank you for being here.

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D), MASSACHUSETTS: Thank you. It`s good to be

MADDOW: At a personal level, as a human being, as a citizen, how are you
feeling about this election?

WARREN: Now? It happened. And there was a time to be really despondent
about it, but the way I see it now is that we pick ourselves up and we
fight back. That`s what I think it`s all about.

MADDOW: A lot of liberals in particular are despondent, you know, there`s
people talking about moving to Canada. A lot of people – I`m running into
people on the subway, literally today twice on the subway in New York City
and once in the airport as I was coming here to meet with you, people who
looked at me and started to say something to me recognizing me from TV and
they broke down in tears.

WARREN: I know.

MADDOW: People are very, very upset. And I keep hearing, you can`t move
to Canada, you can`t go into your shell, you can`t be despondent, you have
to fight. But fight how?

WARREN: All right. Look, let`s start with the fact, because you really do
have to acknowledge this. This is painful. This really and truly hurts.
And we have to remember how Donald Trump started this whole campaign. He
started it with an attack on Mexican-Americans and then he took the
escalator down.

And his entire campaign was fueled on racism and bigotry, attacks on women,
attacks on African-Americans, attacks on Latinos, attacks on Muslims,
attacks on people who were disabled. I mean, it was one attack after

And that means we have to think about what this means for America and where
we go forward right now. And so the first part I start with, on any part
of this is that Donald Trump brought a kind of bigotry to the fore that
we`ve never seen so publicly in our politics or at least not in a very,
very, very long time.

So, what are we going to do about that? That means for me what we`re going
to do is we`re going to stand up and say there`s a lot we`ll try to work
with you on, there are a lot of places where there are going to have to be
compromises, there are things we`re going to end up losing because we don`t
have the White House, we don`t have the Senate, we don`t have the House of

But on those core issues about treating every single human being in this
country with dignity, on that we stand up and we fight back. We do not
back down. We do not compromise, not today, not tomorrow, not ever.

For me, that`s the starting place on how to understand what`s happened to

MADDOW: One of things that I`ve been thinking a lot about is the number of
people, particularly young people, young adults who because of President
Obama`s policies, because of what he did, they came out as having been
brought to this country as kids undocumented.


MADDOW: They came out, made themselves known publicly, made themselves
known to the government as being here without documentation. And those
people are wondering if doing that means that they`re going to be subject
to what Trump has described as a nationwide deportation force that is going
to come round them up.

What do you think about that? What do you say to those people?

WARREN: So what I say is what I say to the all the rest of us, too, is
that what happens next in this country is partly about Donald Trump, it`s
partly about a Republican Senate, it`s partly about a Republican House.

But it is more about the rest of us and what the rest of us say and frankly
what the rest of us permit. You know, Donald Trump did not get the
majority of Americans voting for him. They did not. That`s not how it
worked in this election.

But he is the president. That means he will have certain tools. But we
are the American people. And we speak for the American people. And we
have the values that have made us a strong country.

So here`s how I see this. You can either lie down, you can whimper, you
can pull up in a ball, you can decide to move to Canada, or you can stand
your ground and fight back. And that`s what it`s about.

We do fight back. We will stand with those who are here who were told,
come out of the shadows, we welcome you. We will stand with them. And we
will stand with them every day. That`s what we have to do.

MADDOW: When you say that, I`m going to push you on that. People are
thinking about what they can do in their personal lives, like even people
who have been politically involved and now feel like they need to do
something they haven`t yet done before. People who haven`t been
politically involved, people who maybe even haven`t voted, people who now
want to do something to protect their country.

Do people plan to shield their neighbors from deportation? Is that the
level of planning people should be doing?

WARREN: Let me put it this way. I think what we start with is we start
with two things that we can do. One is we can volunteer and the second is
we can stay connected to each other.

The first part about volunteering is get out there and volunteer.
Volunteer for Planned Parenthood, give a couple hours a week to them or to
any other organization that really matters to you, an environmental
organization, an immigrants right organization, somebody who is working on
economic justice, someone who is working on financial reform, get out there
and volunteer because volunteering is a way to say we`re making these
groups stronger.

This is one way our voice will be heard. It`s not all going to be heard in
Washington. This is how we`re going to have our voice heard.

And the second part is we`ve got to stay connected to each other. This is
what we can now do through the internet. This is how we can now do it. I
have We stay connected by emails every four or five
days where we talk about substantive issues. We talk about the fights that
are coming up.

Because we have to be ready to mobilize on specific issues when the time
comes. We`re not going to fight every issue every minute of every day.
We`re going to be smart, we`re going to be organized, we`re going to use
our time and our talents in a strategic and careful way, but we are going
to fight back. We are not turning this country over to what Donald Trump
has sold. We are just not.

MADDOW: We`re now seeing, including tonight, big, vocal protests and
they`re pretty spontaneous.


MADDOW: Nobody planned on Donald Trump being president anywhere in the
ideological number line, but people who were upset about it by the
thousands turned out last night and by the thousands are turning out
tonight. We`re seeing huge numbers of people in the street, particularly
in Baltimore tonight but in some other cities.

Do you think that is healthy? Do you support those protests? Do you
encourage people to protest?

WARREN: Look, people are upset and they`re right to be upset. This is our
country, and people have a right to have their voices heard. What happened
on Tuesday, we could let our country head in that direction, in the
direction that Donald Trump offered in his campaign to lead us or we can
say we are a better people than that.

We have a right to be heard, but we also have an obligation to listen. You
know, part of what happened on Tuesday is what Donald Trump offered up with
this kind of toxic stew of bigotry, but there were millions of people
across this country who voted for him not because of that bigotry but in
spite of that bigotry.

There are millions of people across this country who voted for him because
they are angry about what`s happening in this country, because they are
worried about what`s happened in this country, and because they are hopeful
that he is someone who will come in and break a system that is not working
for them.

It is not working for them economically. It is not working for them
politically. You know, the way I understand this election is that the
American people voted for significant change. This economy is working for
a slice at the top and it`s leaving everybody else in the dirt. People
hanging on by their fingernails.

And this political system is working for a slice of those at the top and
shutting everybody else out. The American people want to see change. Our
job now is to try to give some direction to that change, to force that
change in a way that not only opens up for more and more families, but that
helps us build a future that works, not just for some of our kids, but a
future that works for all of our kids.

MADDOW: Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren, can I keep you pinned to
that chair for one more segment?

WARREN: You bet.

MADDOW: OK. We`ll be right back with Senator Elizabeth Warren.


MADDOW: We`re back now in Boston with U.S. Senator Elizabeth Warren. This
is her first televised interview since the election.

I was just talking to my control room there for a second in the break.
Donald Trump has tweeted tonight about the protests in the streets that
have erupted in response to him being elected that these are professional
protesters who are being paid to be in the streets. Incited by the media -
- excuse me. Incited by the media to be in the streets.

WARREN: Wait, if they`re being paid, how does incitement –


MADDOW: He didn`t say paid, that`s me – yes, you are right. They are
they incited by the media, that it wouldn`t be happening organically, it`s
just because the media is telling them to be there.

This – it seems like the important thing here is – to me is that it
appears that Donald Trump is tweeting again which may be a hallmark of his
presidency. He`s gone after you personally and in very specific terms. He
has – even on Monday night, the night before the election, he called you
“Pocahontas” again, making fun of your Native American heritage. He called
you a “terrible human being.”

Being the target that you have been for him, I wonder if that actually
gives you any sort of opening for some sort of contact with him or talking
with him. You`ve never met him, have you?

WARREN: No, I`ve never met him. Uh-uh, I`ve never met him. You know,
actually what I would like to be the opening? Donald Trump said that he
wants to adopt Glass-Steagall. Donald Trump has said he wants to raise the
minimum wage, right? Donald Trump has talked about family leave. Donald
Trump has said he will protect Social Security.

Man, we got some places there where we could overlap, and I really do want
to say, heck, you want to do things that really will help build a little
more economic security in this country? Count me in. I`m ready. I`m
ready to put aside all that. We don`t have to tweet at each other about
it. Let`s do those things and make them happen.

Now, on the other hand, if you think the way we`re going to build economic
security in America is we`re going to turn loose Wall Street to do whatever
they want to do and run up whatever risks they want to run up, and then
crash the economy again, no. We will fight that one every step of the way.

And if you think the way we`re going to help this economy along is we`re
going to get rid of health care for 20 million Americans, we`re going to
kick people with cancer to the curb on pre-existing conditions, we`re going
to tell 24-year-olds that they`re taken off their parents` insurance
policies, then the answer is no. And we`ll fight you every step of the

But it really is important. You got to stay listening in this. If Donald
Trump will advance the kinds of policies, the kinds of measures that can be
helpful, then, man, let`s jump up and work with him. Let`s make that
happen. Because these are things not just that Democrats want. These are
things that Americans want.

You know, those kind of core things, like debt-free college and raising the
minimum wage and expanding the Social Security and reining in Wall Street,
those are the kinds of things that two-thirds to three-quarters of all
Americans support. That`s Republicans, independents, libertarians,
Democrats, all of us are in on that. That`s an American agenda.

If Donald Trump will go in that direction, we`ll help him, we`ll help him
on that. But that`s what it`s got to be about.

MADDOW: In terms of – you mentioned the Affordable Care Act. A lot of
people are trying to decipher whether or not the Affordable Care Act is at
as much risk as the Republicans say it is. As far as I can see it the
Republicans in Congress have already proven that they can repeal the
Affordable Care Act and put it in a bill for him that lands on the
president`s desk because President Obama has had to say no to that.

President-elect Trump has pledged that he would sign it. I see the
Affordable Care Act at being at very, very, very grave risk. I also see
Roe versus Wade at grave risk, I see Dodd-Frank at great, I see the
Consumer Financial Protection Bureau at grave risk. Am I overstating it?
Am I seeing a worst-case scenario there, or do you also see those things as
being on the precipice?

WARREN: I see all those things at risk. I see all those things and more
at risk. But that`s why I say volunteer just to stay in the game right now
and stay connected to each other because we`re going to have to have these

We`re going to have to be organized in these fights. We`re going to have
to drive these fights. And you know, Donald Trump did prove that he can
listen to the American people. He proved that. He didn`t listen to all of
them. He didn`t get the majority of votes. But he listened on the
economic pain that a lot of Americans are feeling. He listened on the
anxiety that a lot of Americans feel.

Our job is to make sure our voices get heard. He said he would be
president of all the people. Then let`s hold him to it and let`s help him
do it. And let`s make it clear what that doesn`t include and where it is
we will fight him every step of the way.

MADDOW: Can I ask you three very quick lightning round questions.

WARREN: OK, I`m ready.

MADDOW: Have you spoken with Hillary Clinton since the election?


MADDOW: How was it?

WARREN: Good. Look, it`s hard. It`s really hard. She worked hard. She
has had 25 years of public service, longer. She`s been out there. She has
fought for women. She has fought for children. She has fought for health
insurance. She has fought for human rights.

That has been the defining feature of her life, and this is hard. This is
hard. I respect what she has done and tried to do for this country and for
people around the world.

MADDOW: Do you want to be the chair of the Democratic Party?


MADDOW: I mean, you can do that while still being a senator.

WARREN: Yes, I know. But look, I`ve made this clear. I`m into this
fight, but I`m also into constructively what we can build. I want a lot of
voices in here. I want a lot of people helping make this happen. That`s
what matters to me. I don`t need a title. Believe me. I will be in this.

MADDOW: Well, the Democratic Party needs a new chair, though. Do you have
a favorite – and I mention this in part because Congressman Ellison was
endorsed by Senator Sanders today. Do you have a favorite candidate? Are
you going to be involved in that at all or do you see that as sort of
external to your responsibilities?

WARREN: No, no, so I talked with Congressman Ellison. I really, really
like Keith. And I think he`s terrific and I think he would make a terrific
DNC chair. I just recently heard that Howard Dean, I mean, literally just
a few minutes ago, I heard that Howard Dean may be in this.

MADDOW: He says, I`m in.

WARREN: I haven`t talked to him. Fine. I`d like to hear what his vision
is. But I want lots of Democrats in, engaged, and ready to go.

MADDOW: Who are you going to pick as your running mate in 2020?


MADDOW: You see what I did there?

WARREN: No, no, no. No, no, no. That is a long way off. What we`ve got
to do right now is we don`t have energy to waste on that. What we have is
we`ve got to line up our fights, where it is that we`re willing to say
we`re with you and we`ll help you and we`ll put wind in your sails,
President-elect Trump, and where it is that we say on bigotry, on
prejudice, on turning loose Wall Street, on saddling our kids with too much
debt on student loans, on canceling health insurance, where it is that we
say, no, we will fight you every step of the way.

You know, you start every fight by being clear so that the people on the
other side understand these are the places I`ll help you, these are the
places I will do everything I can to block you. We need to be clear on
that as Democrats. We need to be clear on that as progressives. We need
to be clear on that as Americans.

And we need to send that message to Donald Trump tonight and tomorrow and a
whole lot of days into the future.

MADDOW: Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts, thank you.

WARREN: Good to see you.

MADDOW: You`re the only person I chase around the country. You only let
me know I can interview the day of. And then I`m constantly buying
toothpaste at an airport and chasing you down. I appreciate it. Thank

WARREN: Thank you.

MADDOW: Thank you.

We`ll be right back.


MADDOW: We are in a heightened moment in our politics for a second
straight night we`re monitoring protests around the country. Seemed to be
around the country organically springing up in response to the election of
Donald Trump. For a lot of people in this country, this is a joyful moment
because they voted for him and want him to be president. For a lot of
other people in the country, it is a freak-out moment.

I just, just moments ago, had a long live conversation with Elizabeth
Warren about what liberals, and progressives and Democrats ought to do
right now in this moment.

She had what I thought was a surprising suggestion for what we all ought to
do. My good friend Chris Hayes joins us with his take on Senator Warren`s
prescription, straight ahead.

Stay with us.



WARREN: On these core issues about treating every single human being in
this country with dignity, on that, we stand up, and we fight back. We do
not back down. We do not compromise, not today, not tomorrow, not ever.
For me, that`s the starting place on how to understand what`s happened to


MADDOW: Elizabeth Warren speaking with me now live just moments ago in a
studio that`s like nine feet from where I am right now.

Joining us now is the host of “ALL IN” here on MSNBC, the great Chris
Hayes, who stayed late to talk to me about that interview and watched it
live as it happened. Chris, thank you so much for staying. I really
appreciate it, my friend.

HAYES: Absolutely, anytime.

MADDOW: First, let me ask you if you think Elizabeth Warren is one of the
de facto leaders of the Democratic Party now more than she was before? And
what do you think about what you heard from him tonight?

HAYES: Yes, frankly, she and Bernie Sanders are, I think, in some ways the
kind of leaders of the party at this point. And they struck, it`s
interesting, they struck similar notes. Both of them basically, said,
look, on anything where we agree, on issues that we believe will help
working Americans, whether it`s breaking up the banks or increase minimum
wage or a jobs bill perhaps, details to be seen, we can work with you.

And on anything of these core values, in bigotry and targeting Americans,
we will fight you – Bernie Sanders said, we will be your worst nightmare.
I think that`s a good opening line, but –

MADDOW: Mm-hmm.

HAYES: Here`s the problem. I said this to Jeff Merkley on my show. I
said let`s say the first two items are number one, an infrastructure bill
that would provide some macro economic stimulus, and maybe get some people
some jobs and Democrats say, we`re going to work with you on that. A
victory on that builds political capital for the new President Donald
Trump. And the next is the deportation force.

Now, you have, maybe help the American economy but given political capital
to someone who is using that political capital to pursue one of the things
that you hate and you are going to fight against, and that is a conundrum
for the Democratic Party. It is a conundrum for every one of the members
of that Senate caucus who are essentially the last bulwark of Democratic
Party at the federal level.

MADDOW: And what are the mechanisms that they`ve got? I mean, when
Sanders and Warren talk about fighting tooth and nail, you saw how fierce
Elizabeth Warren was in expressing how hard she would fight about that and
how uncompromising she would be. As you said, Bernie Sanders said we`ll be
their worse nightmare. Jeff Merkley tonight sounded on your show, sounded
very much like the Supreme Court is somewhere where he will lay his body
down in terms of doing the right thing by the Supreme Court. What are
their options?

HAYES: Well, a lot of it has to do with the norms of the Senate, and Mitch
McConnell frankly. I mean, one of the things we learned is that a
determined group of 40-plus senators can really slow things to a crawl, not
just with a filibuster, but with all kinds of procedural gimmicks. I mean,
I remember talking to Harry Reid and Debbie Stabenow during the Obamacare
fight and they talked about the way they extended the fight, right?

So, even if they thought they couldn`t win, they extended the fight, just
using the legislative calendar, make them fight another day and another
week, eat up the clock, eat up the clock. There are all sorts of
procedural mechanisms and parliamentary maneuvers. The question then
becomes, does McConnell move to annihilate or destroy any of those? I
don`t know. That`s an open question. Do they get rid of the filibuster?
They do they start to crackdown on some of the parliamentary tactics that
have been used so successfully in many respects by McConnell and his caucus
back in 2009 particularly?

MADDOW: And when that happens, and there are no procedural options within
electoral politics for stopping things, that`s when things get really,
really, really radical.

Chris Hayes –

HAYES: Yes, I think people need to understand what you said last night,
that there are institutional checks throughout, and everybody needs to do
their part in playing a role in those checks.

MADDOW: Yes. We live in a republic, and our democracy is part of our
republic, but we`ve got other stuff, too, that we need to defend and be
part of.

Chris Hayes, my stalwart friend, host of “ALL IN” – thanks, Chris. I miss
us talking like this to each other, even if it is through a camera. We
should do this more on each other`s shows.

HAYES: I totally agree. Thanks, Rachel.

MADDOW: Yes, thanks, man.

All right. Lots more ahead tonight with us. Stay with us.


MADDOW: As of two hours ago, we still did not have a presidential election
result for the state of Arizona. But late tonight, NBC News has now made a
call in the state of Arizona. Tonight, they`ve called the state for Donald
Trump, and not by any considerable margin.

We still, however, do not have a call in the great state of Michigan. They
are still actually counting the votes in Michigan. You can see how close
it is there, less than 12,000 votes out of many millions cast. Donald
Trump`s lead right now is about 12,000 votes. That makes it too close to

And we still got no presidential call in New Hampshire. In New Hampshire,
they again are still counting votes. They`ve got, according to what says
there in the upper right hand corner, they`ve got 2 percent left to count.
Right now, Hillary Clinton is in the lead in New Hampshire, but it`s a slim
lead, only about 2,500 votes after, out of about 700,000 cast.

For those of you who are feeling either elated or saddened by Tuesday
night`s results and the statistics say more of you are saddened since
Hillary Clinton won the popular vote, this kind, these kinds of results as
they come in, they`ll probably not be of interest to the party-affiliated
section of your brains, but if you are a civics geek, it is fascinating to
see how close these races continue to be. It`s further proof that your
vote really, really, really does matter. It even matters if you vote third

I mean, 2,500 votes for the margin in the whole state of New Hampshire,
that`s less than the population of Sunapee. That`s not even the population
of Dunbarton. I could keep making obscured New Hampshire references but
I`m out of time.

That does it for us tonight. We will see you again tomorrow.


Good evening, Lawrence.



Copyright 2016 CQ-Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by
United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed,
transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written
permission of CQ-Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark,
copyright or other notice from copies of the content.>