The Rachel Maddow Show, Transcript 11/2/2025
Show: THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW
Date: November 2, 2016
Guest: Brahm Resnik
RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST: Good evening, Chris. Thanks, my friend.
CHRIS HAYES, “ALL IN” HOST: You bet.
MADDOW: And thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. Happy
This is Robert Rozier. R-o-z-i-e-r. Robert Rozier was born in Alaska,
who`s a really, really excellent football player. He went to UC-Berkeley.
He played defensive end for Cal.
And then after his time at Cal, he was drafted into the NFL. In the 1979
NFL draft, he was a ninth round draft pick. He went to the St. Louis
Cardinals. Unfortunately, for Robert Rozier and for the Cardinals, though,
he didn`t last even half a season. He ended up getting kicked off the
Cardinals squad, banged around the league for not all that many weeks. He
did end up playing for a little while in Canada.
But ultimately, Robert Rozier ended up back in the United States and in
prison. Ultimately after that prison term by 1982, he had landed himself
in a cult in south Florida. And like lots of cults, the one that Robert
Rozier found himself in in the Miami area in the early 1980s.
It was headed up by a guy who proclaimed himself to be the messiah. He
called himself Lord Son of the Lord. He called him Yahweh Ben Yahweh. And
the Miami area, specifically in Miami Gardens in Carroll City, Yahweh Ben
Yahweh and his cult, they actually built themselves up into a little bit of
There were a lot of them. They fixed up decrepit housing. They built
themselves a headquarters, they ran bible study and home schools for kids
out of their big compound. They ran a bunch of different businesses.
They had buses and vehicles and trucks. They even made products that was
apparently Yahweh beer and Yahweh soda and Yahweh hair products. Behold,
Yahweh ice cream from the time.
And even though the Yahweh Ben Yahweh thing, it really was a cult. Really
was run by a guy who said he was god. They did do some good in their
community and they got positive attention for the good things that they did
in their community.
Yahweh Ben Yahweh was invited to address a group of Miami business leaders
at one point in the 1980s. And they might have forgotten he was a cult
leader, and that have thought of him as just the community leader, and
until he got up and told them, quote, “Egypt has her pyramids. India has
her Taj Mahal. France has her Eiffel Tower. Miami has me.”
Miami, he said, has the son of Yahweh, the world`s greatest attraction is
here in your midst. I`m here.
By October of 1990, the mayor of Miami actually proclaimed Yahweh Ben
Yahweh Day for the city of Miami in recognition for this cult leader`s
accomplishments, for what his cult had done that was good for the city of
Sadly, within a month of Yahweh Ben Yahweh Day being proclaimed in Miami,
within a month of that, that was October 1990, by November 1990, the whole
thing had actually turned into a horror movie. On November 7th, 1990,
happened to be the day after election day that year, Yahweh Ben Yahweh
himself, a cult leader and 15 of his followers were all indicted on
horrific charges, a whole litany of charges including racketeering and
This is a case that had been a long time coming, but the centerpiece of
their indictment was conspiracy to murder 14 different people. The cult
was blamed for 14 different deaths. At trial, there was testimony that in
order to become part of the inner circle of this cult in Miami in the `80s,
the cult leader Yahweh Ben Yahweh, he demanded a sort of entrance fee to
get into the inner circle.
The entrance fee was you had to kill a white person and bring Yahweh Ben
Yahweh either that white person`s severed head or if you couldn`t manage
the severed head, you at least bring him an ear. That`s how he would let
you into the inner circle of his cult.
Robert Rozier who had had that promising football career at Cal in the NFL,
at that trial he confessed to taking part in seven murders for the cult.
At the end of that trial, Yahweh Ben Yahweh and most of the other people
who were put on trial with him were convicted of various crimes.
And the Yahweh cult in south Florida is still famous to this day because of
the number of people that they killed, right? They were a black
supremacist, serial killing death cult that was really visible in Miami.
For a time it held sway over some portions of some neighborhoods in city of
Miami, but then it all quickly unraveled into this incredibly gruesome
serial killer story.
And the story itself as a story. It was amazing, “The Miami Herald” in
1991, they won the Pulitzer Prize for a series of 80 articles that they did
on the Yahweh Ben Yahweh cult. “The Miami Herald” tracked down defectors
from the cult. They ultimately tracked down the cult leader and the
members to the 14 different deaths that the cult was associated with that
ultimately got them all charged.
It was incredible reporting for “The Miami Herald”. Nowadays, it`s “The
Miami New Times”, the alternative weekly in Miami, that has taken up the
baton on Yahweh Ben Yahweh death cult reporting. And their angle on it
now, the reason they`ve had to take that up now in 2016 is this year, “The
Miami New Times” has taken it upon themselves to remind everybody about
this serial murdering black supremacist Miami death cult from the early
`90s whenever this guy shows up. See that guy there, “Blacks for Trump”,
whenever that guy shows up at a Donald Trump rally.
You have seen that guy with the blacks for Trump sign, gods2.com. You see
him going back tore a few months now. Trump organizers seemed to go out of
their way to put that guy, the guy with his blacks for Trump sign. They
seem to go out of their way to put him in camera view when Trump is
He`s been there and they`ve put him there in camera view at multiple events
over the course of the campaign. I kid you not, we had Trump himself
grabbed the guy`s sign and hold it up himself. He held up a “Women for
Trump” sign and kissed it, then held up the “Blacks for Trump” sign that he
got from the guy in the crowd.
Today in Miami, Donald Trump singled him out the guy holding the “Blacks
for Trump” single, single him out a couple of different times to say how
much he loved him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you. I love that sign,
blacks for Trump. I love that sign. Thank you. Thank you, fellas.
That`s so good. Blacks for Trump. That`s so nice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MADDOW: The guy who himself is most often the person you can see holding
that sign, the guy we saw get up there and hold that sign behind Trump, he
has gone by a few names over the years. He now likes to be known as
Michael the Black Man.
But he is one of the Yahweh Ben Yahweh cult members who was indicted on the
conspiracy to murder charges in Miami back in the day. The guy holding the
“Blacks for Trump” sign who you see, that guy there you see at so many
Trump rallies who the Trump organizers keep putting right behind Trump at
rallies, he was charged with two murders in the Yahweh Ben Yahweh serial
Ultimately, he was not convicted but “The Miami New Times” points out this
was his past, particularly when he gets personally shouted out by Donald
Trump, and oftentimes held up by the conservative media as a sign of real
black support for Donald Trump. They keep pointing him out, pointing out
his signs because it`s basically their contention that – “The Miami New
Times” is basically their contention that what this guy Michael the Black
Man is trying to do is he`s trying to reconstitute the Yahweh Ben Yahweh
cult. He`s always maintained that Yahweh Ben Yahweh was robbed in that
trial, that the cult did nothing wrong.
And he is seemingly trying to build his own following as a religious
leader. The website that`s advertised underneath “Blacks for Trump”,
that`s a sort of semi-religious website that he`s advertising there, that
he maintains himself on the bottom of his “Blacks for Trump” signs.
Michael the black man himself declared, I should tell you, his own run for
president last fall. Back in September, he said he was running for
president this year.
And the reason Republican campaigns including Donald Trump`s have been so
willing to put him on camera, the reason that politicians like Rick
Santorum have even had Michael the Black Man open up for Rick Santorum at a
south Florida political event, the reason they`re willing to give him so
much attention is because part of his insane cult-like theology is how much
he hates Democrats and how Democrats are the devil. Incidentally, he also
says that Barack Obama is a member of the Ku Klux Klan.
But his theology, his sort of bizarre cultish theology has now morphed this
year into loving Donald Trump and going to all the Donald Trump rallies.
But the partisan appeal of him holding up the sign that says “Blacks for
Trump”, the reason that`s been so attractive to Republicans and the Trump
campaign in particular that I think they`ve been willing to let this guy
get on stage and advertise his website and get all this attention from the
candidate and all the rest without asking too many questions about who
exactly he is and why exactly he`s there. And that`s probably wise because
here is what happens when you do ask him those questions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFEID MALE: Owen Shroyer from infowars.com. And I`m here with
Michael the Black Man on the radio. Now, let`s get a quick look at his
shirt real quick. There`s the shirt he is repping tonight.
Now, Michael, tell me, why are you wearing this shirt?
MICHAEL THE BLACK MAN: I`m wearing this to show my support for Donald
Trump and my disdain for Hillary Clinton who is actually the financier of
slavery. What do you mean she`s the financier? Her name is Hillary Rodham
Clinton, supposed to be the descendants of the Rothschilds and her biggest
donor is Len Rothschild, because Rothschild, the Rockefeller and JPMorgan
are the financiers of slavery.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MADDOW: He`s for Trump and he`s against Hillary Clinton because of the way
you spell the word Rodham shows her to be a descendant of Rothschild and –
but if you really want to know, if you really want to know the philosophy
behind blacks for Trump, this guy you see at all the Trump events,
including today`s Trump Miami rally, the real heart for the “Blacks for
Trump” and why he wears the shirts that says Trump and Republicans are not
racist, if you really want to get to the heart of why he believes it, well,
here in his own words is his real explanation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL THE BLACK MAN: We are the true Hebrews and we`re the chosen once
of god. And don`t let them trick you into thinking your some damn cave man
that was living in the rocks in the side of the mountain. The people
living in the rocks and the side of the mountains are Hillary Clinton and
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And her supporters.
MICHAEL THE BLACK MAN: No, not just the supporters, it really is a group
that`s actually called a Canaanite that you see in the nightclubs and the
black thing, they`re really white with the blue veins, they even call
themselves blue bloods. These guys are cursed with the curse. We with
call it albinoism because they`ve got that little cross out part and they
never come out in the daytime.
These people are the Canaanites that were cursed and they into Ishmael in
Genesis Chapter 36 and created an organization called the Hyksos and Hyksos
became called the Egyptians, Egyptians became called the Philistines, the
Philistines became called the Babylonians. The Babylonians became called
the Phoenicians. The Phoenicians became called the Kasars (ph), the
Israeli, and today, they`re called Illuminati.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MADDOW: Oh. It`s the illuminati, the guys in the nightclubs with the
Even the reporter from the conspiracy theory website Infowars is like
getting a little too much of an earful from the “Blacks for Trump” guy who
was once indicted as part of the Yahweh Ben Yahweh death cult for multiple
But the Trump campaign keeps putting him front and center at Trump rallies,
as recently as today. They`ve got Donald Trump shouting him out, thanking
him for his support, pointing him out at Trump events.
This is the first presidential election since we`ve had an African-American
president in this country. It would have been hard to for see, I think,
when we were electing our first black men president that this is how one of
the two major parties would be handling racial politics and what he
perceives to be the core of his support in the African-American community
this late in the presidential race to succeed our first African-American
president. But that is where we are at.
Tonight is also the night that Republican U.S. Senate candidate David Duke,
former grand lizard of the Ku Klux Klan qualified to appear in an official
candidates debate in the senate race in Louisiana. David Duke, Republican
candidate, was among six U.S. Senate candidates who are polling high enough
in Louisiana to make the stage for tonight`s debate, which was held, I`m
sad to say, at Dillard University, which is a black college in New Orleans.
Dillard, of course, agreed out of the kindness of their heart to be a host
for the debate. At the outset of the campaign, they had no idea that would
ultimately involve an invitation to the nation`s best self-promoting
Klansman and white supremacist.
Dillard did go ahead with hosting this debate tonight, though, including
David Duke. It just wrapped up within the last few minutes. Dillard in
its infinite wisdom, they did decide that it would be held in front of an
empty room. They held it in an auditorium but did not convene an audience
for David Duke and the other Senate candidates tonight.
There were plenty of protesters at Dillard tonight who would have been very
happy to have themselves in there had they been let in, but they were not
let in. There were reports that protesters were teargassed by police.
Meanwhile, Mississippi this morning, the town of Greenville woke up to.
This is Hopewell Baptist Church in Greenville. It has about 200 members.
Greenville is a mostly black city of 34,000 people in delta in Mississippi
and sometime last night, police chief in Greenville says a deliberately set
fire broke out at this black church.
By morning, as you can see, the church was significantly damaged and you
can read the graffiti under the smoldering windows, vote Trump. And nobody
has in idea who set this fire at this black church or why they did so. The
graffiti does not speak for itself. We don`t know if this was set by a
Trump supporter or somebody trying to make Trump supporters look as evil as
possible. But that black church in Greenville, Mississippi, did burn.
There`s an $11,000 reward for information leading to the conviction of
whoever set that fire. The FBI says they begin a civil rights
investigation into that arson. The only silver lining here is that a Go
Fund Me page was set up this morning to raise $10,000 to help that black
That Go Fund Me page hit its $10,000 goal within minutes and now actually
as of tonight they`re up closer to $100,000. So that is good. People can
be good. People can be great.
But a lot of what`s going on right now is nuts. The mayor of Greenville,
Mississippi, said today what happened to that church appears to be a race
crime. He says it happened in the `50s, it happened in the `60s, it should
not happen in 2016.
2016 is a signal year and a benchmark year for African-American communities
in our country, right? As the first black president prepares to leave
office and we have to decide as a country who is going to replace him.
And this kind of nonsense, this kind of curdled, toxic nonsense is not what
anybody would have expected we`d be dealing with in the last six days of
this presidential campaign, but it is, in fact, what we`ve got today.
President Obama himself today sounded a clarion call to African-American
communities that Hillary Clinton may be in trouble this year. His legacy
may be in trouble if African-Americans don`t turn out to vote than they
have been turning out so far this year. That`s very serious math that the
Democratic Party is reckoning with right now.
That math and more straight ahead tonight.
MADDOW: President Obama today in North Carolina gave a rollicking
appearance, very upbeat appearance on behalf of Hillary Clinton`s campaign.
President Obama is basically going to be flooring it between now and
Tuesday, between now and Election Day. He was in North Carolina today.
He`s in Miami and Jacksonville tomorrow. He`s back in North Carolina again
for two more events on Friday. Then on Sunday, he`s in Orlando, then on
Monday, he`s in New Hampshire.
But on top of that very busy schedule, in addition to the rally that he did
today in North Carolina, President Obama also today went on the Tom Joyner
Radio Show. And he made a passionate plea particularly to black voters, a
passionate plea to lack voters to start turning out to vote in bigger
numbers than they have some more.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I have to go do some more
campaigning, but I hope everybody is listening. I mean this from the
bottom of my heart. The people who listen to your show, Tom, you
personally, Sybil, everybody, you guys lifted us up so mightily over these
last eight years.
I would not have been president, Michelle would not have been first lady.
We wouldn`t have gotten everything done that we did had it not been for you
and all your listeners and all the people who stood in line, all the people
who prayed for us and all the people who worked for us and volunteered and
called and knocked on doors. And I could not be more grateful.
But I just want everybody to understand we got one more race here. Even
though my name`s not on the ballot, our legacy`s all at stake. And we
can`t take it for granted.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
MADDOW: There will likely never be African-American turnout again like
there was for the first African-American president. The question is,
though, how much can that vote slip if Democrats still want to win the
There is an answer for that. That`s an empirical question that has an
The closest we`ve got to a man who has that answer joins us next.
MADDOW: Many of the headlines you`ve probably seen about the presidential
race shows that the polls are tightening or even heading in Donald Trump`s
favor at least when it comes to national polling. Some tracking polls out
today, the investors business daily national tracking poll shows Hillary
Clinton and Donald Trump tied at 44 percent in the four-way race.
The ABC national poll, the ABC News/”Washington Post” daily tracking poll
shows a tie race. It shows Secretary Clinton and Donald Trump both at 46
Another daily tracking poll out today, “The L.A. Times”/USC tracking poll
has Donald Trump up by 6 points over Hillary Clinton, nationwide. Although
I should point out that that particular poll has had Donald Trump up all
along in this race from the very beginning.
All of those daily tracking polls that are showing either tied or Trump
pulling ahead, those are all national polls. The thing is we don`t do
elections as a nationwide thing. In this country, we do them state to
state. That`s how you put together a win or a loss in a presidential
So, that is actually where you should be looking in order to see who is
more likely to win. The national polls are on interesting snapshot. But
if you want to know who will take things on Election Day, you go state to
state. How do things look right now state to state?
Joining us now from his magic wall is the great Steve Kornacki, our
electoral map guru and the host of “MSNBC LIVE” every day at 4:00.
Steve, thank you so much for being with us. Will you take our mind off the
national polling number and give us a look state by state at how things are
shaping up right now?
STEVE KORNACKI, HOST, MSNBC LIVE: Yes, sure. We got a whole bunch of
brand-new state polls today. So, we can take you through the battle for
270. What we want to focus on right here is sort of what for the Clinton
campaign they hope is their ultimate firewall. And what I mean here is if
everything else goes wrong for them in the final week of this campaign in
the battleground states, in the key states, what is the firewall that they
think and they hope will ultimately protect them if it comes to it?
We got new polling on that front today. So, to put this in some
perspective, let me first take you through what the doomsday final week
would look like for the Clinton campaign. What I mean is this, right now,
this is what we have Hillary Clinton in states equaling 272 electoral
votes. Look, if she doesn`t drop from that at all, she`s the next
president of the United States.
But here`s what they fear and the worst possible case here could go wrong,
the Clinton campaign does, and that is that every one of these toss-up
states, the gray states on the map, let`s say Donald Trump were to sweep
them, run the table, win all the toss-up states here in the final week.
Iowa red, we`ve got this congressional district in Nebraska, there`s a
congressional district up here in the rural part of Maine.
Let`s say if Trump took Utah, let`s say he took Nevada, these are big ifs,
but let`s say he took Arizona. He takes all the toss-up states. What does
that do? Clinton still sitting at 270, Trump at 266. Trump would then be
one state away from the presidency.
And he would need one additional state. It would have to be a blue state.
He`d have to take all the toss-up and then find a blue state. That`s the
ultimate firewall the Clinton campaign is looking at. Can they protect the
blue state that if it ever came to this, Trump would need to go into and
We`ve got new polling on that front today. Pennsylvania, this is one of
those blue states that Trump people still think and hope they could flip if
it comes to it. We`ve got a bunch of new polls out of Pennsylvania today.
Look at this, four new polls out Pennsylvania. These are all single
digits, but Clinton is leading all of them, 2, 4, 4 and 5. This is
consistent with what we`ve seen throughout this campaign and really for a
generation in American politics now. The Republicans can get close in
Pennsylvania but getting over the hump there, still no sign they can do
Another big one we look at today, a lot of people were interested in
Wisconsin, the gold standard poll came out in Wisconsin today. Remember,
Trump was in Wisconsin just last night. Well, look at this. There was a
lot of uneasiness among Democrats in the run up to this poll. A lot of
sights or relief when it came out, a six-point lead, Hillary Clinton still
holding strong in Wisconsin.
Again, this is the kind of state that if Donald Trump, if everything else
went right for him in the next week, he`d still need to flip a state like
this, no sign of that poll in Wisconsin he`s getting any closer there.
Also think about Michigan. Hillary Clinton is going to be going into
Michigan on Friday trying to shore up her campaign spending money on the
airwaves there. Again, what do we have here in terms of polling? A seven-
point lead for Clinton in that state.
Again, the key here for the Clinton campaign with the numbers we`re seeing
a couple others that the Trump supporters are making noise about, New
Mexico, Colorado, the key here is the polling we`re getting out of these
states still shows Hillary Clinton leading. Sometimes the margin`s a
little smaller than the others, but right now all indications are that that
ultimate final firewall for the Clinton campaign is still holding.
And remember, they are now spending money, the Clinton campaign is, in a
lot of these states and, in fact, as I said, Hillary Clinton herself will
be going into Michigan. So, if they come in with a lead in the final week
in these states, they spend money, they send Hillary Clinton in, they think
if everything else were to fail, that`s the firewall that keeps Trump from
MADDOW: So, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan, those are the states
that you`re sort of riveted on in terms of this strategy and Clinton
shoring up the hardest part of her defense.
KORNACKI: And you could also, I think you can probably add Colorado to
that one, too, and maybe New Hampshire. But we got numbers out of those
other states today. But even the polls we`re seeing in Colorado and New
Hampshire, Clinton still leading by varying degrees in those states as
MADDOW: Steve, one other thing I want to ask you about. It`s actually
something related to something that happened on this show last night. It`s
a specific thing in the polling that people are starting to think might
take a dramatic move in the last few days. Can you stick around so I can
ask you this other thing?
MADDOW: Great. The great Steve Kornacki is with us for my very specific
question, when we come back. Stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL WELD, LIBERTARIAN VP CANDIDATE: I have a lot to say about Mrs.
Clinton that has not been said by others recently. And that I think needs
to be said. I mean, I`ve known her for 40 years. I worked with her, I
know her well professionally. I know her well personally. I know her to
be a person of high moral character, a reliable person, and an honest
person. I`m here vouching for Mrs. Clinton.
And I think it`s high time somebody did, and I`m doing it based on my
personal experience with her. And I think she`s deserves to have people
vouch for her other than members of the Democratic National Committee, so
I`m here to do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MADDOW: Libertarian Party`s vice presidential nominee, former Republican
governor of Massachusetts, Bill Weld, on this show last night making some
big news, vouching personally vouching for the Democratic presidential
nominee Hillary Clinton. Governor Weld last night had nice things to say
about Hillary Clinton. He came pretty much as close as he possibly could
to endorsing Hillary Clinton last night without actually endorsing her.
Governor Weld did say that when it comes to Donald Trump, he fears for the
country if Donald Trump was elected. But his personal opinions about the
candidates are one thing. He and Gary Johnson are actually competing in
the presidential race.
What`s the effect of that? Especially if he has such strong views about
Donald Trump being a threat to the country and Hillary Clinton being a
pretty darn good choice?
I mean, Bill Weld didn`t endorse Clinton. He also didn`t drop out of the
race. He says that he will be voting for his own ticket for the
libertarian ticket on Election Day.
It raises this interesting question. If the libertarians dropped out, if
Bill Weld, with or without Gary Johnson, got out of the race between now
and Tuesday, would that actually help Hillary Clinton win the presidency?
Would it help Trump win the presidency? Can we tell what the effect of
that would be at this point?
Some national polls poll in a four-way race. They ask people, would you
support the Democrat in the race, the Republican in the race, the
libertarian in the race or the Green Party candidate in the race? They
poll on Clinton, Trump, Johnson and Stein.
Then, they poll the same people on just the head-to-head race between
Clinton and Trump. If you compare the two results, you get from the four-
way race versus just the head-to-head, Hillary Clinton on average does
slightly better in four-way matchups than she does when it`s head-to-head.
Head-to-head her polling average is 1.7 percent lead over Donald Trump, in
a four-way race with the third party folks in there, it`s bigger than that,
1.9 percent lead. That suggests the net effect of these third party
candidates in the race is a tiny help for Clinton. That maybe those third
party candidates are mostly taking votes that would otherwise go to Trump.
That`s national polling. Some swing state polling shows the same thing.
The most recent NBC/”Wall Street Journal” poll out of New Hampshire shows
Hillary Clinton beating Trump in a head-to-head race by about eight points,
but if you ask about a four-way race, add back in Johnson and Stein,
Clinton and Trump both drop a little bit but Clinton drops by two points
and Trump drops by three, which suggests that the presence of the third
party candidates are hurting him more than they`re hurting her. The
presence of the third party candidates might actually be helping Hillary
Clinton`s chances. That`s in New Hampshire.
You can also see evidence in the opposite direction recently out of Ohio.
Donald Trump leading Hillary Clinton in head-to-head matchups in Ohio.
When you add in the third party candidates, though, Trump goes up a point
or so and his average goes up over half a point. Looks like the third
party candidates in that case are taking votes from Clinton and when
they`re out, it helps Trump.
Also look at yesterday`s ABC/”Washington Post” tracking poll. Donald Trump
is a point ahead in a four-way race. When the pollsters ask people who
said they wanted to vote for Johnson and Stein, well, if you had to, you
couldn`t vote for Johnson and Stein, you had to vote for Clinton or Trump,
which would you pick? More of those voters said they`d pick Clinton than
So, if you`re looking for evidence that third party voters are hurting
Clinton, you got that there. Those voters are saying they would vote for
Clinton if they weren`t voting for a third party candidate. So, there`s
evidence in both directions. There`s evidence in both directions in the
swing state, there`s evidence in both directions in the national polling.
Where does that leave a third party candidate like Bill Weld?
Particularly with what Bill Weld said last night about Hillary Clinton on
this show. If the libertarian ticket dropped out or fell apart, if the
green party candidates dropped out or fell apart, what would be the effect
on the Trump versus Clinton race? Can we tell who would be hurt and who
would be helped if something like that happened?
Joining us now once again is my friend Steve Kornacki, host of “MSNBC LIVE”
every day here at 4:00.
Steve, is there an answer to this question or is it a mixed bag as it
looked to me?
KORNACKI: It`s pretty as muddled as what you showed there. You`re dealing
with numbers that are so small in a lot of these cases, with the margin of
error factored in. It`s really tough to say one way or the other. And the
best way we can say is, it seems to be mostly a wash.
But I think if you`re a Democrat, if you`re a Clinton supporter, there`s
two thing have to worry you about the presence of, whether it`s the
libertarians or any third party candidate. And the first thing is this.
Traditionally, you look at the libertarian, you`d say, well, it`s going to
be disgruntled Republicans. It`s somebody who is fiscally conservative who
doesn`t like Trump because maybe they think he is too extreme on X or Y,
but it`s basically a disgruntled Republican.
MADDOW: Right, their candidates are former Republican governors.
KORNACKI: Right. So, traditionally, you would think, OK, that`s where
that`s coming from. But when you start looking at the polls, the biggest
resistance, some of the biggest resistance to Clinton and some of the
biggest openness to the third party candidates has been voters under 35,
millennials. And that`s sort of an extension of what we saw in the
Remember, Hillary Clinton struggled mightily with young voters against
Bernie Sanders. But here`s the thing, the evidence we have suggests young
voters, millennials, they don`t really like Clinton but they really, really
don`t like Trump. So, there`s this dynamic where if they`re offered a
third choice or a fourth choice, more than other groups, they`re likely to
take the third or the fourth option. Gun to their head, told you`ve got to
go with Clinton or you got to go with Trump, the evidence suggests that
more of them are ultimately going to go with Clinton than with Trump.
Their level of dissatisfaction with Trump is much higher than it is with
Clinton. So, that`s one area where I think if you`re a Democrat, you`re
worried about the presence of these candidates. It`s this idea that Donald
Trump has a ceiling on his support. The polls fluctuate. But the one
thing that`s been constant, Donald Trump does not get up past the mid-40s.
Hillary Clinton will get up to the high 40s, even sometimes she`ll cross 50
I think we can put this up on the screen. What you`re looking right now.
Hillary Clinton over the last month, when you match Clinton versus Trump,
it`s been about three dozen polls where she`s hit 38 percent or higher. I
think it`s 34. Donald Trump the number is zero.
So, that speaks to the possibility that there`s a ceiling for Trump that`s
lower than there is for Clinton. If you have just a two-way race, she`s
going to beat him in a two-way race. If you have a four-way race, with the
Libertarian, the Green Party candidate, are getting three, four, five, six
percent each, 44-45 percent for Trump could win that race.
So if you`re a Democrat, I think for those two reasons, you would rather
this just be a one on one race.
MADDOW: And I think actually what you`re describing there about the Trump
ceiling, that`s been a great source of comfort to Democrats and liberals
looking at this race, thinking, well, there aren`t too many persuadable
people who are being swayed over to Trump. He will hit that high number,
but that, you`re right. Even if that ceiling is exactly where we think it
is, that`s enough to win if there`s a significant third party vote.
KORNACKI: Just think of the Republican primaries, he got 45 percent of the
vote, it was enough to win the nomination.
MADDOW: If there`s enough people in the race.
Steve Kornacki, clarifying as always. Thanks my friend.
Have you been eating protein? Have you been sleeping?
KORNACKI: I`ve been eating horrible food.
MADDOW: We`ll get ourselves in shape in the next few days. No, we won`t.
All right. Steve Kornacki, host of “MSNBC LIVE” every day here at 4:00.
We have a lot more ahead tonight. Please stay with us.
MADDOW: The Republican National Committee today did an unusual thing in
federal court in New Jersey. They filed paperwork with a federal court
insisting that their own vice presidential nominee had no idea what he was
talking about, he was totally wrong, he was totally making it up when he
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. MIKE PENCE (R), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It`s a tremendous
question, and I will tell you that the Trump campaign and the Republican
National Committee are working very, very closely with state governments
and secretary of states all over the country to ensure ballot integrity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MADDOW: Mike Pence in august telling voters that the Trump campaign and
the Republican Party are working all over the country to ensure ballot
integrity. Now, Governor Pence said that. He said a few different
iterations of that in public, right?
But we`ve been reporting on this show the Republican Party is actually
banned by a consent decree from the `80s from doing the kind of ballot
integrity stuff that the Trump campaign has been threatening for Election
Day, which is basically poll watching, targeting minority voters in swing
The RNC is banned by law from doing anything like that even though Mike
Pence is insisting that the Trump campaign and the Republican Party are
working hand in fist to do it.
Last week, the Democratic Party asked a federal court to find the
Republican Party in contempt of that consent decree. They included as
evidence what Mike Pence has been telling voters about Republican plans for
the election, that the Republican Party is working with the Trump campaign
to do this poll watching effort.
Today, the Republican Party had to respond to that challenge in court, and
they are dealing with the Mike Pence part of the evidence by saying, eh,
you know, Mike Pence, he makes things up.
Chief lawyer for the RNC filed this in federal court today. He said he
called Mike Pence personally last night, yesterday evening, quote,
“Governor Pence stated to me that he has no knowledge whatsoever of any
effort between the Trump campaign and the RNC to ensure ballot integrity.
He further states that he neither – that he neither ever – neither ever -
- neither ever? He neither ever has been a part of nor is aware of any
discussions between the Trump campaign and the RNC concerning any efforts
to ensure ballot integrity or to suggest any RNC involvement in such
He`s never heard any of that. He has no knowledge whatsoever about it. He
just keeps saying what they`re doing. He makes it up every time he says
That`s the message from the Republican Party tonight. That`s what their
defense is to this lawsuit. Mike Pence makes stuff up. You know him.
So, there`s no problem here. Don`t believe a word he says. Definitely
don`t take it as evidence so says the Republican Party.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PENCE: It`s a tremendous question, and I will tell you that the Trump
campaign and the Republican National Committee are working very, very
closely with state governments and secretary of states all over the country
to ensure ballot integrity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MADDOW: Hillary Clinton has gone West this evening. She started in Nevada
which went for Barack Obama twice in 2008 and 2012. The Clinton campaign
has been working like crazy for months now in Nevada. They`re very
heartened by the early voting numbers out of that state in particular.
After tonight`s Clinton event in Las Vegas, though, she then headed for
An Arizona is a whole different thing. Arizona has only gone blue in a
presidential election once since World War II, and that was back in the
`90s. We`re told that something around 10,000 people have turned out for
this Clinton rally tonight in Arizona state with a lot of other people
still in line to get in, 10,000 people turning out for Hillary Clinton
tonight in Arizona of all places. Arizona?
Stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: All the progress that we`ve made over the last eight years, all the
progress we hope to make over the next eight years, all of that goes out
the window if we don`t win this election. And we don`t win this election
potentially if we don`t win North Carolina. So, I hate to put a little
pressure on you, but the fate of the republic rests on your shoulders.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MADDOW: President Obama today making the hard sell in North Carolina, six
days out from the election. A polling average in North Carolina right now
shows a dead heat there between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. Look at
that – 46.4 to 46.4, in the polling average in that state.
Tonight on the other side of the country, though, Hillary Clinton is going
to be giving a speech starting any moment in Tempe, Arizona, of all places.
Tonight`s Arizona event, it should be noted it was announced by the Clinton
campaign on Friday approximately 30 minutes before FBI Director James Comey
decided to jump with both feet into the presidential race. Thirty minutes
before the FBI Director James Comey broke protocol and made his vague
announcement about new Clinton-related e-mails found on Anthony Weiner`s
computer. Thirty minutes before then, they had announced this Arizona
Since that Comey letter was published on Friday, there has been a shift in
the national polling, there has been a shift in Arizona`s pollings and
projections. The latest CNN/ORC poll out of Arizona shows Donald Trump
leading in that state now by 5 points. “The New York Times” giving Donald
Trump a 66 percent chance of winning Arizona. FiveThirtyEight.com putting
his chances of winning Arizona at 68 percent.
And even with the numbers slipping against her, today we learned the
Clinton campaign not only kept up this plan for this Tempe, Arizona rally
tonight, they`re also doubling their ad spending in Arizona over the final
week of the campaign, spending over a million dollars in Arizona in these
last few days.
Even just a week ago when the race felt like it was going to be a Clinton
blowout, the idea of Clinton trying to win states like Arizona or even
Texas or Georgia seemed like it would be a really interesting feather in
Hillary Clinton`s cap. But now, the race has tightened. I just threw my
script on the floor. What does that mean?
Now the race has tightened. Now you have to wonder if it does make sense
for time and money and the candidate`s attention to be focused on Arizona
rather than some of those other blue states that Steve Kornacki was
describing earlier this hour as essentially Clinton`s great blue wall.
Joining us from the site of the Clinton rally tonight in Tempe, Arizona, is
Brahm Resnik. He`s a political reporter and anchor for the NBC affiliate
Brahm, it`s really great to have you there. Thanks for joining us tonight.
BRAHM RESNIK, KPNX POLITICAL REPORTER & ANCHOR: Thanks for having me.
MADDOW: What is your assessment of the political wisdom of these
resources, including the candidate`s time being devoted to Arizona right
now? Are they right to think that Arizona is in reach for the Democrats?
RESNIK: It`s really hard to say. I think you got it just right. As of
Friday when they had all these plans in place, when they had the ad
spending plan in place, they`ve been hitting the state really hard over the
last two weeks since the lewd comments that Donald Trump made. That`s what
brought this race into the dead heat.
But in the last four days or so, it`s slowly been sliding away, slipping
away from her you. You saw the two polls in the last two days that showed
Donald Trump up four or five points.
You could argue it`s the law of electoral gravity here in Arizona.
Republicans just outnumber Democrats. And more of them come out to vote.
That could be part of it. It could be independents moving away. It`s
really hard to say.
At the same time, what I hear from the Democrats is why not swing for the
fences? They have a base that is energized right now like really never
before in Arizona. They feel it`s within their grasp. But at the same
time, Rachel, I have to say they`re being pretty realistic about their
MADDOW: Brahm, one of the things that we noticed from the Clinton campaign
is that their vice presidential nominee Tim Kaine is scheduled to do two
events in Arizona tomorrow. I think at least one of them if not both are
events that he is going to do totally in Spanish. He is fluent in Spanish.
How much are the campaigns both counting on and accurately assessing what
the Latino vote is going to be in Arizona?
RESNIK: The presidential race in Arizona, the race for Maricopa County
sheriff, Joe Arpaio`s job is on the line there. Several other races all
depend on the Latino vote. There has been a huge registration drive this
year, one of the largest we`ve seen here ever in fact. And the feeling is
if they can turn those voters out, they have a shot at winning this thing.
One thing to watch: if Joe Arpaio wins Maricopa County and the polls right
now show him down, if he wins Maricopa County, Hillary Clinton is not
So, getting back to Tim Kaine. He is doing one speech entirely in Spanish
tomorrow morning, in – tomorrow afternoon I should say, in a neighborhood
of heavily Hispanic neighborhood of west Phoenix. Also speaking to the two
Latino stations here in town. He`ll be going to Tucson later in the day.
That speech will be given in English.
But, again, it is a sign of how important the Latino vote is in this
campaign. It must maximize it. And I think you`re going hear that tonight
from Secretary Clinton.
MADDOW: Brahm Resnik, political reporter for KPNX in Tempe, Arizona,
invaluable to have you here with us tonight, Brahm. Thank you so much.
Enjoy tonight. It should be fun.
RESNIK: Thank you.
MADDOW: All right. We`ll be right back. Stay with us.
MADDOW: I`m sorry I have to do this, but I mentioned at the top of the
show tonight that tonight`s U.S. Senate debate in Louisiana featured six
candidates on stage, and one of them was the former Ku Klux Klan grand
wizard David Duke who is running for the U.S. Senate in Louisiana this year
as a Republican candidate.
Now, obviously, even just David Duke`s presence on that stage has been
controversial, even his presence in that debate, his invitation to that
debate, as somebody polling well enough to be there. That led to protests
tonight at the site of the debate. But all that was before he used that
debate stage tonight to share with us his David Duke views of the Jews.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID DUKE (R), LOUISIANA SENATE CANDIDATE: I`m not opposed to all Jews.
I think there are a lot of Jews I honor. But let me tell you about
something. I`m against Jews or anybody else who puts the interests of some
other place over our own country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MADDOW: Not opposed to all Jews. Something said, actually said in a
Senate debate stage in the year 2016.
Today`s Louisiana Senate debate took place in an empty auditorium at a
historically black college called Dillard University in New Orleans.
Students at Dillard protested. There aren`t arrests. Some people were
reportedly pepper sprayed by university police as they tried to protest
outside the debate hall.
But inside, David Duke assured us all he is not against all Jews. Happy
That does it for us tonight. We will see you again tomorrow.
Now, it`s time for “THE LAST WORD WITH LAWRENCE O`DONNELL.”
Good evening, Lawrence.
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