The Rachel Maddow Show, Transcript 9/22/2016

Debbie Stabenow

Date: September 22, 2016
Guest: Debbie Stabenow

CHRIS HAYES, “ALL IN” HOST: All right. Just four days until that debate.
You can see it here on MSNBC, Monday at 9:00 p.m.

Make sure to tune in on Sunday for a special edition of “ALL IN” at 7:00
p.m., one hour early. And that makes it, does it for us, ALL IN, for this

THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW starts right now. Good evening, Rachel.

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST: Good evening, Chris. Thank you, my friend.

HAYES: You bet.

MADDOW: And thanks to you at home for joining us this hour.

When they passed the Civil Rights Act of 1964, there was a lot of worry by
people that supported the legislation that even though it was doing the
right thing, even though it was taking the country in the right direction,
even though it would alleviate some of the most acute injustices in the
country that at the time were really tearing things apart, people who
supported the Civil Rights Act of 1964, even the people who built and wrote
the Civil Rights Act of 1964, they had to worry that that legislation might
actually make things worse in the country before it made them better. Even
when they were writing that bill, they were anticipating rejection and
upset that something called a Civil Rights Act might bring about in many
parts of this country.

And so, as part of the 1964 Civil Rights Act, they wrote in basically
something that they didn`t give too much attention to, but something that
they wanted to help head off that prospect. They created a whole new
division within the federal government, ultimately a whole new part of the
Justice Department, to try to head off what they thought might be upset and
rejection and consternation in part caused by the Civil Rights Act itself.

And they didn`t do it in a flashy way. They tucked it into page 27 of the
Civil Rights Act of 1964. Even to this day, it`s never had that much

But part of the reason for that is when they created this new part of the
government, they mandated that it wouldn`t get too much attention. It`s
interesting. It`s not exactly secret, but by statute, by the law that it
was created by in 1964, it`s not allowed as an agency to toot its own horn.
They`re not allowed to get publicity.

Look at this. This is section 1003 Subsection B of the Civil Rights Act of
1964. “The activities of all officers and employees of the service shall
be conducted in confidence and without publicity. And the service shall
hold confidential any information acquired in the regular performance of
its duties. Any officer or other employee of the service who shall make in
any manner whatsoever, in any information in violation of this subsection
shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction shall be fined
to not more than $1,000 or imprisoned not more than one year.”

That`s like a serious thing, right? If you work for this newly created
part of the government established by the Civil Rights Act of 1964, if you
work for them and you talk about it, you seek publicity for what you do,
you will go to prison for a year. Which is not a typical thing for a
government agency, right?

And it sounds ominous. If this were part of the Justice Department that
was about law enforcement, right, about prosecuting cases or investigating
crimes, but explicitly this part of the Justice Department is not that.

This is also from the statute that created this agency, “No investigation,
no prosecuting. Shall not engage in the performance of investigative or
prosecuting fun prosecuting functions.” Right? That`s what the Justice
Department does, right? They investigate stuff and they prosecute stuff,
but not this new part of it that they created in the Civil Rights Act.
It`s really interesting.

What this odd little, very low profile part of the Justice Department does,
what it was created for in 1964 and what it still does to this day very
quietly is that they basically are the U.N. peacekeepers for home. They
basically try to make peace here at home in the United States domestically
specifically when racial division threatens to tear us up as a nation.

Look, “It shall be the function of this service to provide assistance to
communities and persons therein in resulting disputes, disagreements or
difficulties relating to discriminatory practices based on race, color or
national origin. The service may offer its services in cases of such
disputes, disagreements or difficulties whenever peaceful relations among
the citizens of the community involved are threatened thereby.”

The shorthand reference for what this part of the Justice Department does
is it`s right there in the statute. It`s conciliation assistance. We have
a department of conciliation assistance as a country.

One of the things our taxpayers pay for is a department of conciliation
assistance particularly for racial strife among us as Americans. And you
don`t hear about it because they do not talk about this work. By mandate
of the statute that created them in 1964, they`re ordered to work with
local authorities, they`re ordered to work with local communities. They`re
also ordered under pain of prison that they need to keep themselves out of
the spotlight. Do not talk to the media, do not attract publicity, do not
make yourselves part of the story.

If you have been looking at the last couple nights of conflagration in the
streets of Charlotte, North Carolina, if you have been thinking that, yes,
some conciliation assistance might be just the thing here, now we know that
officers, federal agents from this very, very low profile part of the
Department of Justice, they`re on their way to Charlotte, if they`re not
there already.

Attorney General Loretta Lynch announced that she dispatched federal
officers from this section of the Department of Justice, the community
relations service to go try to help out in Charlotte.

We still don`t know what`s going to happen in the streets there overnight.
These are some live shots of Charlotte tonight. Companies like Wells Fargo
and Bank of America and Duke Energy, really big employers in Charlotte,
they told employees to stay home, work from home today. North Carolina
authorities today announced that in the streets tonight we will see the
National Guard protecting buildings. We will see North Carolina state
troopers protecting traffic. We will see riot-geared Charlotte police in
the streets again with protesters for the third straight day.

This follows two nights of tear gas and property damage and violent protest
and peaceful protest, and anger, and upset, and flash bang grenades and
pepper ball guns and injuries to police and protesters, including one man
who was shot last night who was on life support all day today and who died
late this afternoon.

But in addition to all the people, all those forces that we know to expect
in the streets of Charlotte, we also now know to expect Department of
Justice federal conciliators. Basically trained peacemakers who do not
talk about their work but who try to stabilize the situation when racial
conflict and racial tensions and racially inflicted community crises start
tearing American places apart.

They were deployed after the death of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri,
two years ago. They were deployed after the death of Eric Garner at the
hands of Staten Island police in New York. They were deployed after the
mass murder of Sikhs in the Sikh temple, a white supremacist in Wisconsin.

They were deployed after Trayvon Martin was killed in Florida. Local faith
leaders in that community in Sanford, Florida, praised those Department of
Justice peacekeepers for their low-key role in that city after Trayvon
Martin`s death for being there consistently and then for helping, for
trying to be a bridge to the community from the authorities and from the
authorities to the community. They praised them for basically just playing
an authoritative role and quietly negotiating deals and negotiating
arrangements and facilitating understandings, quiet, low-key, behind the
scene understandings between community groups and faith groups and the
families affected and law enforcement and the local authorities.

To try to just make these tense, difficult situations – I mean, they don`t
make them go away, but they try to make them less unpredictable, less
chaotic. They try to use more communication, low-key communication to
prevent more violence.

We`re a country with a lot of history of racially charged strife and
protest and violence. Not over just years and decades, but over centuries.
And over the last half century or so that history has led to us the point
where we have basically secret national institutional assets that spring
into action when things like this happen to try to help. We have a federal
division of conciliation assistance specifically for racial strife, and
they don`t like to talk about it, but they know when they need to hit the

Even though we have been through a lot of iterations of racism and violence
along racial lines and racial upset and protest, that still does not mean
that the outcome on any given night is predictable. It doesn`t mean the
outcome from any particular incident is predictable. Again, these are live
shots in Charlotte, North Carolina, tonight.

Today, we saw these two recent fatal police shooting stories go two very
different directions. In Tulsa, Oklahoma, where Terence Crutcher was
killed by police last week, the police department, of course, released the
video that they had of that shooting several days ago. There have been
protests and considerable community upset in Tulsa in response to that
shooting but the protests have been mostly prayerful and somber.

Today, the district attorney announced that the officer who shot Terence
Crutcher will be charged in conjunction with his death. That officer will
be charged with first-degree manslaughter. Terence Crutcher, the man who
was shot, was 40 years old.

His twin sister is a doctor in Alabama. This was her reaction to the news
of the charging of the officer in her twin brother`s death today.


all, God gives all the glory out of all of this.


CRUTCHER: And we`re just grateful. But while we are pleased to learn that
the officer who senselessly killed my beloved twin brother will face
criminal charges for her reckless act, we understand that nothing will
bring him back. Our goal now as a family is to ensure that this never
happens to another innocent citizen.

The chain breaks here. We`re going to break the chains of injustice.
We`re going to break the chains of police brutality.


CRUTCHER: The chain breaks right here in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

So, I`m challenging everyone, everyone, everyone from all different walks
of life to join with us as we continue to move forward, because we know the
history of these cases. We know this is the formality. We know she`s been
charged, but then we get no convictions.

We`re demanding full prosecution. We want a conviction. And when that
happens – this is a small victory. But we know we got get ready to fight
this war. And so we want for everyone, the community, the world, to join
arms, lock arms with us as we go out and make everyone aware that today we
can change this nation. We can heal this nation.


MADDOW: That was Terence Crutcher`s twin sister responding to the news
today that the Tulsa police officer who shot and killed her brother last
week, that officer has been charged with manslaughter in the first degree.
That`s Tulsa.

Now, 850 miles due east in Charlotte, North Carolina, police have still not
released the video that they say they have of the police shooting of Keith
Lamont Scott. As of this evening, they have shown what video they have to
Keith Lamont Scott`s family and their attorneys.

This is the statement that was released by the family tonight. This was
released through attorneys that are now working with the family. “Keith
Lamont Scott`s wife and other members of her family viewed two videos
captured by police dashboard and body cameras that showed Mr. Scott`s
shooting death. After watching the videos, the family again has more
questions than answers.

When told by police to exit his vehicle, Mr. Scott did so in a very calm,
nonaggressive manner. While police did give him several commands, he did
not aggressively approach them or raise his hands at members of law
enforcement at any time.

It`s impossible to discern from the videos what, if anything, Mr. Scott`s
holding in his hands. When he was shot and killed, Mr. Scott`s hands were
by his side and he was slowly walking backwards.

It was incredibly difficult for members of the Scott family to view these
videos but as a matter of greater good and transparency, the Scott family
asks that the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department publicly release the
videos that they watched today.

We`ll continue our own investigation into Mr. Scott`s death. For those who
wish to protest, we urge you to do so peacefully.”

So, again, in Tulsa, Oklahoma, police did release the videos they had of
the fatal shooting of Terence Crutcher. They released them to the public.
Today, charges brought against the officer in that shooting.

In North Carolina in contrast, where these live images are from tonight, in
North Carolina, the family of Keith Lamont Scott has now been shown dash
cam and body cam videos from the scene if Mr. Scott being shot and killed
on Tuesday. But the authorities there saying, although they`ve shown the
family, they are not indicating that they will release those videos to the
public even though the family has now called for that to happen.

So, we are keeping an eye on the streets of Charlotte tonight. We`re
obviously hoping that even if there is a third straight night of big
protests, they`ll not be the kind of violent protests that have wracked
that city.

But while we watch that response, there are still at the core of the case
that has led to this protest. There are still just factual lacunae, right?
Outstanding, conflict accounts of the circumstances of Keith Lamont Scott`s
death. Family and bystanders asserting that Mr. Scott was armed only with
a book when people killed him. Police, on the other hand, still asserting
he was armed with a gun.

Honestly, even if he was armed with a gun, it`s not totally clear whether
having a handgun in and of itself if that`s cause for police to shoot a
man, particularly in North Carolina which is supposed to be a proud open
carry state where it is absolutely legal for law-abiding citizens to carry
a firearm even in the presence of their local police officers.

Joining us now, as we keep an eye on what`s happening in Charlotte is Joy
Reid, the host of “A.M. JOY”, weekend mornings here on MSNBC.

Joy, it`s good to have you here.

JOY REID, HOST, “A.M. JOY”: Thank you. Always good to be here.

MADDOW: I was running down some of that context because I feel like even
though every situation is different, we also have some expectations as a
country as to what we get to know –

REID: Right.

MADDOW: – who helps, who is not helpful.

REID: Mm-hmm.

MADDOW: I mean, there was so much of the focus of the last couple years
has been this idea that the key to police accountability is cameras.

REID: Right.

MADDOW: Body cams, dash cams and the release of those videos to the public
when something like this happens.

How do you assess that with regard to how Tulsa has gone down and what
we`re seeing right now in Charlotte?

REID: Well, I mean, I think you made the salient point because you can see
the difference, right? You had very swift action in Tulsa not only to
release the video but to assess whether charges should be filed, to
actually file charges. That`s what people expect, right?

When what you see before your eyes looks like a homicide, quite frankly,
people have an expectation that`s attached to that. So, what happened in
Tulsa, I think, once that video was released, the logical conclusion was
that there should be some sort of charge because you saw this man had his
hands in the air, it was quite clear. There was no question that Mr.
Crutcher had his hands in the air. So, put a pin in that.

Then you go to North Carolina where the police chief immediately came out
and backed up the officer`s account. Immediately implied that there was a
gun involved only to now have to come out and say, well, the video doesn`t
definitively show whether Keith Lamont Scott had a gun.

As you pointed out, even if he did, we now have to raise the question
whether open carry laws even apply to African-Americans, because we`ve seen
in cases like Tamir Rice, which is an open carry state, it was a toy, but
even if it was a gun, it is legal to openly carry a gun.

We`ve seen incidences of open carry advocates carrying not just hand guns
but long guns, dangerous looking AR-15 rifles in full view of police and
nothing happens, walking through Walmart, walking through stores, walking
through restaurants, terrifying the people who are patrons. Someone calls
911. Nothing happens to the person.

But police officers implying that an African-American, a black man or even
a child who has what they think looks like a gun, they feel they have the
right to shoot him.

MADDOW: Or reaching toward something that might be a gun even though
nothing is seen at all?

REID: Go back to Amado Diallo, a wallet, right? And the same story
applied. We thought he had gun. You know, we felt we had to kill him.

You go back to Sean Bell. You go back to Patrick Dorismond in New York.
Those are in New York which is not an open carry state.

You`re now talking about North Carolina. And, by the way, the governor of
that state has signed into law a bill that would make it even harder to get
the video. It would actually seal dash cam and body cam video so that the
public would never get to see it.

MADDOW: And the law, it`s interesting, we were talking in my news meeting
today. That law is due to go into effect next month.

REID: That`s right.

MADDOW: So, there`s some question in North Carolina as there`s obviously
very, very intense public pressure that this video ought to be released in
part because of the parallel situation with Tulsa but now tonight because
the family having seen the video wants it released.

REID: Right.

MADDOW: It`s possible that one of the options that North Carolina
authorities believe they have is to run out the clock until that law comes
into effect in early October.

REID: That`s right. And what you`re seeing here is that the police unions
are fighting to have less and less and less disclosure. They believe that
the presence of cameras is actually making officers reticent to do their
jobs and putting them in legal jeopardy even though the legal jeopardy,
let`s be honest, it`s pretty minimal. It`s very rare that police officers
go to prison for shooting a civilian. It`s almost unheard of, right?

So, a conviction in the Tulsa case would actually be shocking, because it
rarely happened even when they`re charged. But police are pushing so hard
to have less and less and less disclosure. You add that to a state like
North Carolina, which is regressive in any number of ways, go through
voting rights, health care, et cetera, and you have this sort of collusion
between public officials elected by the public, and the people who are
charged with the public trust, police officers, the armed agents of the
state, essentially saying to citizens, you don`t have the right to know
what we`re doing.

Well, you know what? Police officers are armed agents of the state.
They`re part of the government. We pay their salaries. They ostensibly
work for us. How can they assert that the public doesn`t have a right to
see what they`re doing? It`s shocking.

And if you just go a few miles away by the way, North Charleston, you saw
Justin Bamberg on earlier, another client is the family of Walter Scott, in
that case, the police came out and immediately back up the officer`s claim,
immediately claimed that Walter Scott was a threat only to find out because
of civilian video that all of that was a lie and charges apply there.

MADDOW: Because there happened to be a bystander.

REID: Just happened to be there.

MADDOW: Joy Reid, host of “A.M. JOY”, weekend mornings here on MSNBC.
Joy, thank you very much for being here. I really appreciate it. I know
it`s been a long day for you already.

We`ve got much more to come tonight including a report from live on the
ground in Charlotte next.

We`ve also got some brand-new and exclusive both polling data and actual
voting data, the first voting data in in the presidential election. We`ve
got that here exclusively tonight. The results will surprise you.

Stay with us.


MADDOW: We do have some breaking news out of Charlotte. This has just
crossed in the past couple of minutes. Right now, it is just after 9:20
p.m. Eastern Time.

And the mayor of Charlotte, North Carolina, Jennifer Roberts, has just
signed an order for a curfew in Charlotte that will go into effect at
midnight. This is being reported on air by our NBC affiliate in Charlotte,
WCNC, but what this means is that the large number of protesters that you
see in the streets of Charlotte here, my understanding is that the curfew
means that by midnight, the mayor expects the streets of Charlotte to be

That means that we`re looking at 2 1/2, 2 1/2 plus hours that protests will
be allowed to happen in the streets of Charlotte. And after that, as of
midnight, they will presumably not be allowed. We don`t know exactly how
this is going to be enforced tonight. But there`s National Guard, state
troopers and Charlotte PD out in force alongside these many, many
protesters you`re looking at here live on your screen. We`ll be back with
a live report right after this.



DEMONSTRATORS: Release the video! Release the video! Release the video!
Release the video! Release the video! Release the video!


MADDOW: Demonstrators on the streets of Charlotte, North Carolina,
tonight, chanting as you can hear them very clearly, “release the video”.
They`ve also been saying, “we want the tape”. They`re referring, of
course, to the dash cam and body cam videos that Charlotte police say they
have of the shooting of Keith Lamont Scott. They`ve now shown Mr. Scott`s
family those tapes.

The family says they want those tapes released publicly. Authorities have
given no indication that they will release those tapes publicly.

Protesters tonight have also been chanting “no justice, no peace” and
“whose streets, our streets”. This, of course, is the third night of
demonstrations following Tuesday`s killing of Keith Lamont Scott by a
Charlotte police officer.

The number of protesters on the streets at this time is estimated to be in
the hundreds, although just since we`ve been on the air, it seems clear to
me that the number of people on the streets is growing. So far, the
protests definitely appear to be peaceful this evening. There have been no
reports of violence this evening.

Protesters started gathering in Charlotte tonight around at 7:30 p.m.
Eastern Time. First, they were at Bearden Park. From there, they started
marching through Charlotte`s downtown business district. At one point they
stopped at the intersection of Trade Street and Tryon Street, which is
right near the Bank of America global headquarters.

But, again, as of right now, protests in Charlotte tonight are peaceful.
And again we`ve had this news in the past few minutes that Charlotte`s
mayor has just signed an order for a midnight curfew to be imposed in
Charlotte tonight. We are trying to get word now on how exactly they
intend to enforce that given that it`s just 2 1/2 hours away from now.

Joining us now is NBC News correspondent Ron Mott who is on the steps of
the police department in Charlotte.

Ron, can you tell us what you`re seeing and what the environment is like
that you`re in right now?


Well, they had just left the police department. So, now, they`re marching
away from the police department. And you`re right. This has been a very
peaceful assemblage of people. They said that they want to see the tapes,
as the family of – want the public to see the tapes.

You talk about the specifics and the law going into effect on October 1st.
Suffice it to say, people want to see for themselves exactly how he lost
his life on Tuesday night.

Now, I can tell you this crowd is going through the streets without a real
plan, I don`t think, but they are peaceful. Police officers on bicycles
and on foot are going along with them to make sure that they can protect
the vehicles that are on the road from this crowd.

I did see one car a few moments ago that got surrounded by this crowd. You
can only imagine what that person, that driver was feeling, not real sure
what will take place. But they let the car out, which was great to see.

This is a far different scene than we saw here last night. All day long
religious leaders, community leaders have been urging people who had
relationships with them to be peaceful tonight. Everyone understands the
emotions are very high here in Charlotte. It`s a tragedy that`s happened.
But they don`t want to see the tragedy compounded by the vandalism and,
unfortunately, we have a person who was killed last night. And the details
of that are still somewhat in the gray area.

So, tonight, this is a scene that the city, I would say, could be proud of.
A lot of young people are out here, a lot of families, fathers with their
children, black people, white people. It`s a collection, a diverse group
of people tonight. They want to be heard.

MADDOW: I want to mention – first, I should say to our studio audience,
we had some people flip off the camera. That happens, I`m sorry about

But one of the things that we saw last night on some other networks and a
few other places was the media being treated very hostily. The protesters
not basically feeling like the media was on their side. They were angry by
the presence of cameras.

Are you seeing any of that or experiencing any of that tonight? How are
people treating you?

MOTT: Oh, I think they`ve treated me fine. I mean, you just saw there a
woman wanting to make sure that we were reporting accurately, I suppose.

I believe we`re standing in front of – I`m not sure exactly what building
this is. Is this the jail? This is the jail. And apparently lights are
flashing on and off. Folks inside the jail, they understand what`s taking
place on the outside.

We know we had some reporters who were roughed up and had some encounters
with people last night. I`m not seeing any of that. (INAUDIBLE)

This is a very vocal crowd, obviously. They`re marching very peaceful, no
confrontation. There was one point as this crowd made its way through the
streets of uptown, a group stopped in front of a large group of police
officers –

DEMONSTRATORS: We see you, we love you. We see you, we love you.


MOTT: The mayor the governor, everyone in Charlotte –

MADDOW: Ron Mott on the streets for us. Ron at times as you heard there
being drowned out by sort of intense geographic encounter there, right,
outside a big jail there is what Ron was saying in Charlotte. The
protesters saying, we see you, we love you, right?

So, the context here, criminal justice, race and policing in Charlotte as
Ron was describing there, a little bit hard to hear him. But he was saying
this is a crowd at least as far as he`s seen here tonight, that the city
should be proud of. A very diverse crowd.

Right now, it`s big, it`s on the move. He said it doesn`t seem like a
particularly has a spot that they`re aiming for, but it`s a peaceful crowd
of people.

I do think just based on our impression that it seems that the numbers are
growing in the streets overnight. We`re going to try to get further
guidance from local authorities tonight in terms of this supposed curfew.
The mayor has – I shouldn`t say this supposed curfew. This is a declared

The mayor has signed an order according to our local affiliate WCNC that
there will be a curfew in Charlotte by midnight tonight. That`s 2 1/2
hours from now. It`s confirmed that the mayor has signed that curfew
order. How it is going to be enforced, how they intend to keep things
peaceful and clear the streets of all these people at the stroke of
midnight, we`ll be watching that very closely tonight.

There`s a very heavy media presence, not just from MSNBC and NBC but from
news outlets all over the country and all over the world tonight. And
indeed, whatever happens tonight in Charlotte, the whole world is watching,
including us throughout the night tonight.

Stay with us.


MADDOW: OK. So we`re going to put up this live shot of what`s going on in
the streets of Charlotte tonight. That live shot? Thank you.

We`re going to keep that up on the side of the screen here. Obviously, the
main situation here in Charlotte is that lots of people are out in the
streets tonight for a third straight night protesting the police shooting
of an African-American man named Keith Lamont Scott on Tuesday.

Again, the latest news tonight is that tonight`s protests in Charlotte are
big and, as we just heard from Ron Mott, they are mobile, they are moving
through the downtown area. But they`re also peaceful, at least so far.

This follows two nights of protests in which they did not always stay
peaceful. There was property damage and injuries. And one person who was
shot last night was on life support throughout the day and who died this

So, heading into tonight`s protests, the mayor of Charlotte has signed an
order for a curfew to be imposed on the city at midnight tonight. We do
not know exactly how that`s going to work. We`re efforting more details on
that from local authorities in terms of how they want to enforce that.

So, we`re keeping these images up. We`re keeping an eye on that throughout
the evening. But while we keep up those images, I do also need to bring
you exclusive news on another subject. I feel obliged to get this on the
air because it is exclusive to us and because you can`t get it anywhere
else so I feel like I need to get this out there.

It`s about the presidential race. NBC News has partnered with a voter data
group called Target Smart to do data analysis on the presidential vote.
And thanks to Target Smart, we exclusively have got the first real data on
the first real vote that has been cast already in the presidential

This is the generally agreed upon swing state map this year. Of all of the
states in the country, the state that started its early voting, the
earliest happens to be one of these swing states. It happens to be
actually the state that we`re watching for a totally different reason
tonight. Swing state North Carolina.

North Carolina started early voting earlier than anyone. We`ve got nearly
4,000 presidential ballots that have already been cast in North Carolina.
Of course, we don`t get to open them up and look at them, but we do know
this. Again, this data is exclusive to us. She can`t get this anywhere

Of the ballots that have been cast in North Carolina so far, 42 percent of
them are from registered Democrats, 34 percent are from registered
Republicans. That`s what we know in terms of the partisan split.

Democratic ballots 8 points over Republican ballots so far in North
Carolina. Now, Democrats always expect to do better in the early vote,
Republicans expect to do better in terms of votes cast on election day.
But even given that, that margin, that margin, that eight-point margin for
the Democrats is really good.

According to “The Associated Press”, in 2012, Republicans were ahead on
this measure at this point in the race four years ago, not Democrats. They
had a 43 to 38 percent lead on early ballots at this point in 2012, a plus
five lead Republicans ahead.

And, of course, Mitt Romney went on to win North Carolina in 2012. But
again, this year, our early analysis says it`s not Republicans plus five in
North Carolina. It`s Democrats plus eight.

And that is a pretty picture for Democrats in North Carolina in terms of
the presidential race. It`s a teeny, teeny, teeny, tiny picture. It`s a
picture of only the first 4,000 votes cast in this election. But Democrats
will like that news definitely.

In the new NBC national poll that just came out last night, Hillary Clinton
leads Donald Trump nationally by six points. That`s when Clinton and Trump
and the two minor parties are included. When it`s just head-to-head
Clinton versus Trump, she`s beating him by seven points nationwide, 48-41.

That said we do not vote nationally for president, so sometimes one of the
most interesting things about these national polls is what they tell you
about how various demographic groups are responding to the two candidates.

Usually by this point in a presidential race, both of the major party
candidates would be making their hard play for Latino voters. This year,
Hillary Clinton is doing that. She`s making her hard play for Latino

Donald Trump really is not. He does not seem to be focusing on Latino-
Americans at all. And you can see the effect of that. Today, they
released the Latino voters sample. It`s an oversample of Latino voters
from the national NBC/”Wall Street Journal”/Telemundo poll.

And the results are stark. Hillary Clinton has the backing of 65 percent
of Latino likely voters. Donald Trump has the backing of 17 percent. And
actually, that`s an improvement. Donald Trump has picked up, from the last
poll, he had 14 percent among Latinos in the last one of these polls, but
he`s still failing horribly.

Just to give you some context on how that compares to previous elections,
George W. Bush got 44 percent of the Latino vote in 2004. In 2008, John
McCain got 31 percent and, of course, he lost. In 2012, Mitt Romney got 27
percent of the Latino vote and he lost.

Donald Trump is now ten points behind that performance. So that is just –
that`s deadly. And that pattern holds not just with demographic groups
where Republicans typically do poorly, like Latinos. That pattern, it
turns out, it holds out with groups with whom they do well also.

Look at this. I mean, Trump is doing great with white men. He`s plus 13
with white men. But Romney was plus 27 with white men and Romney lost.

Trump does great with non-college educated white people. He`s plus 18 with
the non-college educated whites. But Romney wasn`t plus 18 with them. He
was plus 26 with them and Romney lost.

Trump is plus 55 with conservatives. That`s great. But Romney was plus 65
and he lost. Trump is plus 77 with Republicans. Woo-hoo, plus 77. But
you know what? Romney was plus 87 with Republicans and he lost.

So, broadly speaking, you look at the polls right now, the poll numbers
nationwide and in a bunch of the swing states, they`re all looking like
they`re tightening up or tilts towards Trump. But in the earliest actual
voting data, not polling but voting data and in the demographic data that
we`ve got nationwide, Trump looks like he is still right now very well on
track to lose and to lose significantly worse than Mitt Romney did.

Hillary Clinton and the Democratic Party and the Clinton supporters of our
country cannot be psyched in general about how the polls are going, but
when you drill down, you look at the real data that we`ve got, it`s good
for her and bad for him. Now you know.

But you know, watch this space. This is a moving target.


MADDOW: We do have some additional information out of Charlotte tonight.
Not exactly the information that we wanted, but it is a little further

As we`ve been covering, these are the streets of downtown Charlotte
tonight, third straight night of protests in the streets. People angry
over the police shooting that took place in that city two days ago.

We`ve been reporting earlier this evening that the mayor has announced that
there will be a midnight curfew in Charlotte tonight. We do not know how
they plan to enforce that. But it presumably means that they expect all
protesters to be cleared off the streets by midnight. The only additional
information we`ve been able to get is this – the city of Charlotte is now
saying that this midnight curfew will be in effect each day until the state
of emergency is – until the end of the state of emergency is declared or
until the official proclamation is revoked.

So, they`re saying it`s not only midnight curfew tonight but midnight
curfew tonight and in ongoing days as long as Charlotte is still declared
to be under a state of emergency. I`ll keep you posted.

We`ll be right back.


MADDOW: So, we have eyes on Charlotte, North Carolina, business district
filled by protesters angry by a fatal police shooting two days ago. We are
expecting a midnight curfew imposed on this city tonight. We`ll stay with
that through this evening.

While we watch that, we also have some urgent news for you tonight
concerning Flint – Flint, Michigan. Last week, you might remember in
Flint, Donald Trump came to Flint for a visit that didn`t go particularly
well. It was most notable for a nice Flint pastor kindly asking Donald
Trump to stop politicking in her local church.

Afterwards, the local congressman, Dan Kildee, told reporters that if Mr.
Trump really wanted to help Flint instead of using it as a political
backdrop, he could, quote, “pick up the phone and call Paul Ryan and tell
him to do something about Flint.”

That was not an idle mention. That`s a specific issue. That was last
Wednesday that trip to Flint by Trump.

The following day last Thursday, the Senate passed a water bill that
includes a bunch of real money for fixing Flint. It passed 95-3, a big
bipartisan success in the Senate. But since then, as predicted, as alluded
to by Congressman Kildee, Republicans didn`t do anything for Flint. They
didn`t put money for Flint on the schedule. They didn`t include money for
Flint in their version of the Senate bill. We`re told they have no plans
to add it anytime soon.

Instead, House and Senate Democrats went to a plan B for Flint. They tried
to get Flint money included in the stop-gap spending bill to fund the
government until after the election. It is supposed to fund the government
through the first week in December.

There is overwhelming bipartisan support in the Senate for helping Flint,
but Democrats on Capitol Hill told us they`ve gotten basically nowhere with
this plan B that they were trying to get Paul Ryan and the Republican
controlled House to come up with Flint`s money.

And today, in terms of that plan, the Republicans basically called time`s
up. The Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell today put forward that
spending bill for the whole government. It doesn`t include any money for
Flint. It includes some of the money Louisiana needs for flood recovery,
but, despite that 95-3 vote by the Senate for Flint, what they put forward
today includes not one dime for Flint. Flint gets nothing.

And learning that today, Michigan lawmakers went righteously berserk.


REP. DAN KILDEE (D), MICHIGAN: When it comes time to take up a paid for
piece of legislation that will not increase the deficit but will help these
poor folks who cannot drink their water, what do we get? Shuffling of
their feet, stunned silence. Nothing. Nothing! Shame! Shame!

SEN. DEBBIE STABENOW (D), MICHIGAN: The 100,000 people, 9,000 children
under the age of 6 who are seriously exposed to lead exposure that will
affect their development physically and mentally physically and mentally,
for the rest of their lives.

KILDEE: What would you do if it was your hometown?



MADDOW: Joining us now is Senator Debbie Stabenow of Michigan.

Senator Stabenow, I know it`s a very busy night and a very busy time.
Thanks for taking time to be with us tonight.

STABENOW: Well, thank you, Rachel. And first of all, I want to thank you.
I know it`s a busy night news-wise as well, and you continue to lift up the
families of Flint. And we are very grateful.

MADDOW: Well, thank you for saying that.

What can you tell us about this situation with the funding for Flint? When
there was that 95-3 vote in the Senate, I caught myself thinking that
actually maybe the Congress is going to do something to get Flint some help
finally. How`s things – has the bottom really fallen out here?

STABENOW: Well, we`re standing strong. The House and Senate Democratic
leadership is strongly backing us. We are not going to move forward with
this short-term funding bill, unless they include Flint.

I mean, we overwhelmingly, in our caucus are saying this is very simple.
Very simple. We have a package that includes funding for Flint and other
communities that have lead in water issues.

We eliminated another program, which I actually authored in 2007, an energy
program, to pay for it. Louisiana is not paid for, by the way. So, we
paid for ours.

This is easy, easy. It costs nothing, to put this in the budget bill. And
yet, they`re saying no. But yet, all of a sudden, help for Louisiana shows

I`m happy to help support Louisiana. We`re all Americans. We know there
are all kinds of emergencies around the country. We aren`t saying don`t
help Louisiana, but the people in Flint are going on two years of getting
up in the morning and trying to figure out how they`re going to go get
their bottled water before they go to work, after they pick the kids up fro
from school.

I mean, this is crazy. Enough is enough. No more excuses. We`ve taken
away every excuse, including a huge bipartisan vote in Senate. And I want
to thank Senator Inhofe and Senator Boxer for working with us, because they
were extraordinary in getting to this point.

And then, the Republican leadership says, well, never mind. The people of
Flint can wait. And maybe never get help. But we`re going to help folks
in Louisiana. It`s crazy.

MADDOW: Senator Debbie Stabenow of Michigan – thank you for helping us
let people know this is going on tonight. We are going to stay on this in
coming days. It feels like this is – it does feel like it`s now or never.
Thank you for clarifying that this is a paid-for line item as well.

Ma`am, it`s good to have you here. Thank you.

STABENOW: Thank you.

MADDOW: All right. We`ll be right back. Stay with us.


MADDOW: Within the past few minutes, NBC has spoken to an attorney
representing the family of Keith Lamont Scott. What`s important about that
he is one of the people who has seen the police video, the dash came video
and body cam video showing this shooting. It has not been released
publicly, but one of the only men on earth who can publicly describe what`s
on that tape just spoke with NBC, and that`s next.

Stay with us.


MADDOW: This is fascinating. The attorney for the family of Keith Lamont
Scott, his name is Justin Bamberg. He is one of the only people on earth
who has watched the dash cam video and the body cam video from the police
officers who were involved in the shooting of Mr. Scott. That shooting, of
course, that led to the protest the last two nights. And the protesters
seen live here in the other side of your screen in downtown Charlotte.

That attorney who has seen the police video just spoke with Gabe Gutierrez
of NBC News about what is on the video. Watch him describe it.



by saying, it was painful to watch, not just to see him get shot and killed
but to see the reactions on his loved ones` faces. What I see in that
video is an individual who is sitting in a car, who gets out, in a calm,
peaceful manner. He never appears to be aggressive.

It seems like he`s confused. I don`t know if he`s getting yelled at from
too many directions. His hands are down. There does appear to be some
object in his hand. But you can`t make out what it is.

At the moment he is shot, he is actually stepping backwards.

GUTIERREZ: Did he have a gun?

BAMBERG: As far as I know, I don`t know. You know, we know law
enforcement is saying he did have a gun. I have not seen any definitive
evidence aside from what law enforcement is saying.


MADDOW: That is Justin Bamberg, the Scott family attorney there, saying
what he is describing basically, what he has seen on the police dash cam
and body cam video that was shown to the family and to their attorneys.

He goes on to tell Gabe later on in that interview, I did not see a firearm
at any time during those videos. The Scott family and their attorneys,
they are calling for the videos to be released to the public. These people
in the streets are also calling for the videos to be released to the

That did happen in the Tulsa shooting in which a police officer was charged
with first degree manslaughter today. It has not happened in Charlotte.
But the pressure is intense on North Carolina authorities to let the public
see this video themselves and make up their minds.

In terms of what`s going to happen tonight in Charlotte, we shall see. The
mayor has declared a midnight curfew in Charlotte pursuant to a state of
emergency that was already declared in that city. They just put out a
formal statement of what that curfew is. But they`re going to clear the
streets between midnight and 6:00 a.m.

We`ll see how they intend to do that, because there are a lot of people
still out in the streets tonight of Charlotte.

That does it for us tonight. We will see you again tomorrow.


Good evening, Lawrence.


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