The Rachel Maddow Show, Transcript 9/15/2016


Date: September 15, 2016

JOY REID, MSNBC ANCHOR: Our coverage continues with Rachel Maddow.

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC ANCHOR: We`re going to be moving on to other breaking
news over the course of this hour.

But right now, we will go back to Hillary Clinton at the Congressional
Hispanic Caucus.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: – the right thing to do, but
it will add $700 billion to our economy and enable America to be what it
has always been – a place where people from around the world can come to
reunite with family, start new businesses, pursue their dreams, apply their
talents to American growth and innovation.

Now, I know this has been a long road and we wouldn`t be where we are today
without your persistence and the quiet courage of families in every state
of our union, and we certainly wouldn`t be here without the bravery of the
young men and women who have risked their very place in the United States
by coming forward and fighting for their own future and the future of
millions of others. They helped change the conversation. And when
President Obama created DACA, it changed their lives.

Right now, 750,000 undocumented young people in America are going to
school, working, and planning for their future. They`re DREAMers in much
more than name. I`ve met so many. I`ve listened to their stories.
They`ve done everything we`ve asked of them and made our country stronger
in return.

So when Donald Trump promises to rip that all away on day one, when he
promises to round up and deport all of the 16 million people living and
working among us, including American citizen children who were born here to
parents who are undocumented, these are the faces I see.

I picture Astrid Silva who I met in Las Vegas. Many of you know her story:
She came to this country from Mexico at the age of four with nothing but a
doll, a cross, and the dress she was wearing. Now, she`s in her 20s,
advocating for the rights of immigrants everywhere.

I picture a young man I never met, whose high school teacher wrote me a few
months ago to share his story. His teacher told me that his former student
was funny, enthusiastic, and patriotic. He played the drums in the school
marching band and after graduation in 2005, proudly enlisted in the U.S.
Army. Before shipping off to Iraq, he stopped by the school so everyone
could see him in his new uniform.

He was, his teacher wrote, “as respectful and optimistic as any student who
ever entered my classroom.” He was also a DREAMer, brought here as an
undocumented child. He loved America, and hoped one day to earn his

But in April 2007, while on a mission in Baghdad, he was killed by an
improvised explosive device. He was just 19. The Army called him a hero
and he was posthumously granted the American citizenship he`d always

All these years later –


His teacher still treasures his memory. And this teacher wanted me to know
– he wanted me to know that despite what Donald Trump may say, immigrants
are not rapists and criminals. The truth is, this young man may not have
been born here, but he represented the best values of our country.


We teach our children that America is one nation under God, indivisible,
with liberty and justice for all. Not just for people who look a certain
way or worship a certain way, but for all. Everywhere I go, people tell me
how concerned they are by the extreme policies and divisive rhetoric
they`ve heard from my opponent – from the racist lie about Mexican
immigrants that launched his presidential campaign to his racist attacks on
a federal judge.

And every time we think he`s hit rock bottom, he sinks even lower. His
latest target? A minister in Flint, Michigan, who respectfully asked him
not to use her pulpit for political attacks. He called her a nervous mess.

How insulting, how dead wrong.

Reverend Faith Green Timmons is not a nervous mess. She`s a rock for her
community in trying times, and she deserves better and so does America.


And again today, he did it again. He was asked one more time, “Where was
President Obama born?” And he still wouldn`t still say Hawaii. He still
wouldn`t say America.

This man wants to be our next president? When will he stop this ugliness,
this bigotry?

Now, he`s tried to reset himself and his campaign many times. This is the
best he can do. This is who he is.

And so we need to decide who we are. If we just sigh and shake our heads
and accept this, then what does that tell our kids about who we are? We
need to stand up and repudiate this divisive rhetoric. We need to stop him
conclusively in November in an election that sends a message that even he
can hear.

We need to set the kind of example we want for ourselves and our children
and our grandchildren.

Parents and teachers are already worried about what they`re calling the
“Trump Effect”. Bullying and harassment are on the rise in our schools,
especially targeting students of color, Muslims, and immigrants.

At a high school basket game in Indiana, white students held up Trump signs
and taunted Latino players on the opposing team with chants of “Build the
wall” and “Speak English.”

Donald Trump is running the most divisive campaigns of our lifetimes. His
message is you should be afraid – afraid of people whose race or ethnicity
is different, or whose religious faith is different, or who were born in a
different country. There`s no innuendo or dog whistles anymore. It`s all
right out there in the open now. So we`ve got to come back twice as strong
and twice as clear.

Just this week, a mother in Florida wrote to me about her 11-year-old son,
Francisco. He`s proud to be American, Colombian, Ecuadorian, and Puerto


As he calls it, a potluck of Hispanic heritage. And Francisco has been
following this election very closely, his mother told me. He wears his
“Love Trumps Hate” pin every day and refuses to take it off. When his
father warned him that might make him a target for bullies, Francisco
looked his father in the eye and he said: “I was always told to stand up
for myself and what I believe in. And I believe Trump is wrong.”

And good for you, Francisco.

That`s what we have to do in this election, and that`s what so many of you
are doing already: standing up to the bullying and bigotry wherever it
comes from.

Together, we must send this resounding message, and we need to inspire a
level of turnout that will help us win up and down the ticket.

We`ve set an ambitious goal of registering and committing 3 million people
to vote in this election that would not have otherwise voted, and we can`t
do it without you. Nearly half of Latinos in America are under 35, and we
need you to show up and make your voices heard in this election.


So, we`re going to keep asking for your help. Keep hitting the campaign
trail. Please talk to your friends, your neighbors, your community –
everyone you see between now and November 8th. Tell them to go to, or text JOIN, J-O-I-N to 47246 to get involved.

This – this election is too important for anyone to sit on the sidelines,
as we heard from Congresswoman Sanchez.

So, let`s stand up for a future where we put families first. Where we
build bridges, not walls. And yes, together we can prove love trumps hate.

Thank you all very much!

MADDOW: Hillary Clinton speaking live tonight at the Congressional
Hispanic Caucus Institute. That`s the CHCI that you see on the graphic
behind her. This is their annual gala dinner.

Speaking to a big room of people at this event in D.C., and a pretty
boisterous room. A lot of people shouting out. A lot of applause, a lot
of support for Secretary Clinton in this room. But also a lot of people
doing – not call-in response. That was not the structure of the speech.
Shouting out throughout the speech in a supportive and encouraging way to
Secretary Clinton.

Secretary Clinton herself being a little self-deprecating in those remarks
about the fact she was following President Obama. She said tonight in
these remarks that he is a hard act to follow, in a lot of different ways.

So, it`s interesting. I have to tell you, we have a bunch of balls in the
air right now in terms of what`s going on in the news. Those speeches we
were monitoring out of Washington, D.C.

There`s breaking political news tonight that unfolded while those speeches
were happening, including this little bombshell that Robert Costa set off
at the front page of “The Washington Post”. We`re going to have more on
that in a second, including Joy Reid, who I have asked to stick around even
in addition to her other hosting duties, come talk to me about this,
because I think it`s potentially a very big story on two different levels.

In terms of the setting here and what happened today, today was the day
Hillary Clinton first got back on to the campaign trail. This was the
candidate`s first personal appearances since she fell ill on Sunday. So,
she got ill on Sunday. She`s had three days off since then, Monday,
Tuesday, Wednesday, at home resting. She`s back as of today.

This image here is from her speech that she gave in North Carolina today.
She walked out to the strains of “I feel good.” It was not very subtle.

After her speech in North Carolina, she gave a press availability
thereafter. Took a bunch of questions from the press corps following her
travels on the campaign trail. You might remember before she got sick,
before this weekend, Hillary Clinton had just started doing more and more
of these press availabilities. The Trump campaign and increasingly a lot
of other people were criticizing her for not doing formal press
conferences, for not generally taking questions from the press on a regular
enough basis.

They started having her do more press availabilities before she had that
incident with her health this weekend. Apparently, now, after her
unplanned break from the campaign trail, they will stick to that schedule,
stick to that plan of making her more available to reporters. Maybe even
on a daily basis.

So, she`s back on the campaign trail. Today, we saw her in North Carolina.
Then we saw that long press availability.

After that this afternoon, Hillary Clinton and President Obama both spoke
tonight in the Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute. This is their big
annual dinner in D.C. It`s always a big deal in Washington, the
Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute is a big deal in Democratic
politics in particular.

But in terms of our national politics right now, these evening, these back
to back speeches gave us a snapshot of what we are expecting to be a
doubleheader from President Obama and his would-be Democratic success for
the rest of this campaign.

The Clinton campaign and the White House have made clear this week that
they are expecting President Obama to be doing lots and lots and lots of
campaign events for Secretary Clinton, maybe even so many campaign events
that it will be unprecedented in terms of a serving president endorsing and
working for his successor. The White House raising the prospect he may be
on campaign trail for two days a week from hereon out until the campaign
which – until the election, which I think – we did a little research on
it. We think that might be the most any sitting president has ever done
for his would-be successor.

So, we saw a snapshot of them tonight with their back to back speeches. It
also showed tonight with her remarks she seems to be doing just fine after
her bought with pneumonia.


changing the American character. Immigrants are the American character.
That`s who we are.

That`s the American I know. That`s the America I believe in more strongly
than ever. So, thank you for picking me up every step of the way. Thank
you for making this country great. We`ve got more work to do, but we will
keep on making progress and create a brighter future for everybody in this
country we love. Si se puede.

CLINTON: When you hear a presidential candidate spewing bigotry and hate,
it`s easy to get discouraged. But we`re here because we know this election
is a choice between not just two people but two very different visions for
America`s future. Either we`re going to make our economy work for everyone
or just those at the top. Either we`re going to fear our differences or
embrace and celebrate our diversity. Either we`re going to pit Americans
against each other and deepen the divides or we`re going to be stronger


MADDOW: Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama both speaking tonight in

There`s a lot going on. Like I said, there`s a lot of balls in the air
right now. In addition to this full day back on the campaign trail for
Hillary Clinton tonight, I should tell you that her husband, former
President Bill Clinton, is due to appear on “The Daily Show” on Comedy
Central tonight.

We do not have a clip from that. We hope to get one during the course of
this hour. I will give that clip to you. I will show it on TV if we do
get in that clip tonight.

On the other side of the campaign, for his part, Donald Trump tonight spoke
in Laconia, New Hampshire. Although, I will say on TV, I think his remarks
– his live remarks were overshadowed by the return of his opponent to the
campaign trail and President Obama`s remarks tonight.

I should tell you, though, that Donald Trump will not be overshadowed much
later tonight when he appears on “The Tonight Show” with Jimmy Fallon.
Now, I do have two clips from that appearance to show you.

There`s one sort of kind of normal politician on a late night show clip we
have. And then there`s one not normal at all clip. Let me show you the
normal one first.


JIMMY FALLON, THE TONIGHT SHOW: Thank you for giving us the material that
we`re doing. It`s been amazing to follow and exciting, because you say
some shocking things. I can`t even believe –

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: But I`m trying not to anymore.

FALLON: See, that`s changing. That`s what I`m talking about.


MADDOW: That`s the normal one. OK. That`s Donald Trump. He is going to
be on “The Tonight Show” with Jimmy Fallon tonight.

But we also got a second clip in this appearance tonight and I kind of
can`t believe it happened. I mean, it`s definitely Jimmy Fallon and it`s
definitely Donald Trump. I don`t think anybody is a body double, or a head
double. You will see what I mean.

But this is really something. This really happened. Behold, a moment
which the audience can`t quite believe. The audience actually can`t be
brought to stop clapping in the middle of this. But this is a moment in
which Jimmy Fallon is allowed to physically do something to Donald Trump
that is almost impossible to conceive of. Watch this.


FALLON: Can I mess your hair up?


FALLON: I will be gentle. I will be gentle.

TRUMP: As long – the answer is yes. But the people in New Hampshire
where I`m going to be in an hour from now, I hope they`re going to

FALLON: You say yes?

TRUMP: Go ahead.

FALLON: Yes. Donald Trump, everybody. I will do it as well. Donald
Trump, everybody.


MADDOW: That is a thing that happened. I almost can`t believe it. My hat
is off – my hat is tipped. I am very impressed by Jimmy Fallon that he
had the – that he pulled it off and Donald Trump let him. You know what I
mean? This is an important moment.

That`s not really an important moment. But still, rather stunning. All
that`s happened, basically within the course of the last hour.

When I say we have a lot of balls in the air, that`s what I just showed you
is some of what I mean. Biggest deal that I think has just happened, even
just in political news, is this late breaking reporting that was just
posted from Robert Costa at “The Washington Post.”

OK, Robert Costa got an interview with Donald Trump on board his private
plane. This is just posted tonight. And there`s a couple of big headlines

I will give you the headline one first in terms of what “The Washington
Post” puts on its headline. “Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump
remains unwilling to say that President Obama is born in the United
States.” Now, even though this is just posted within the last how or two,
you saw Hillary Clinton turn this around and remark on this in her speech
tonight at the Hispanic caucus.

This is quoting again from “The Washington Post” piece, Trump refused to
say whether he believes Obama was born in Hawaii. Quote, “I will answer
that question at the right time,” Trump said. “I just don`t want to answer
it yet.”

Obviously, the political salience is myriad. Donald Trump played with the
idea of running for president back in the `80s, back in the year 2000.
When he started flirting with the idea of running for president in 2012,
his entire platform basically was going to be this birther idea, this idea
that President Obama was not really the president, that he was secretly
foreign, that he wasn`t born in the United States. A lot of people see
that as a deeply, deeply racist effort to undermine the authority and
legitimacy of our nation`s first African-American president.

Donald Trump was essentially the captain of that team in 2012. He has
stopped talking about it recently. He has not made it a centerpiece of his
campaign in 2016. He has very cagey as to whether he renounces those
previous views or whether or not he still holds them.

It`s sort of a threshold issue, particularly for a lot of African-American
voters. But also just for a lot of reality-based Americans who know that
this crusade against President Obama was somewhere between evil and crazy
and maybe even beyond.

Robert Costa has got him to comment on this. There have been surrogates
and Donald Trump`s campaign manager who has recently – who have recently
said Rudy Giuliani and his campaign – Trump`s campaign manager Kellyanne
Conway have said in recent days that Donald Trump no longer is a birther,
that he no longer believes that President Obama is secretly foreign, that
he wasn`t born in the United States. They have asserted plainly within the
last week that that`s no longer his view.

Well, Robert Costa asked him about that directly tonight. It turns out
they are not right about that. Trump refused to say whether he believes
Obama was born in Hawaii. Robert then followed up, “When asked whether his
campaign manager Kellyanne Conway was accurate when she said recently that
Trump now believes Obama was born in this country, Trump responded, `It`s
okay,` she`s allowed to speak what she thinks.` He continues, `I don`t
talk about it anymore`.”

If it is an issue for you whether or not Donald Trump still believes and
still maintains that President Obama is secretly foreign and therefore
secretly not president, should not be counted as a president of the United
States because his presidency is illegal because he was secretly not an
American, then Donald Trump is still there.

Two other smaller stories and one big one out of this interview. The two
smaller ones both concern Roger Ailes, the ousted CEO of FOX News. Mr.
Ailes obviously pushed out of FOX amid myriad of allegations of – there`s
that word. Sorry, lots of allegations of sexual harassment, including a
very large financial settlement paid to one former FOX News host who says
she was sexually harassed by Roger Ailes.

It has been reported multiple sources, multiple contexts that Roger Ailes
is now advising Donald Trump`s presidential campaign. That has been a
source of contention for me, between me and the Trump campaign, because
when the Trump campaign made their campaign manager Kellyanne Conway
available to this show to come on the show, I asked her directly whether
Roger Ailes was in fact a formal or informal adviser to Donald Trump. She
said he is neither a formal nor informal adviser.

Donald Trump telling Robert Costa tonight that he is not a formal adviser.
“There is no role,” he said. But he described him as a trusted friend. “I
love the benefit of his experience and knowledge. He has certainly been
very successful at what he does and on occasion we will talk.”

Robert also getting Donald Trump to say tonight that he has no plans with
Roger Ailes of launching a media venture, sort of a Trump news venture, if
he, in fact, loses the presidency. That had been another source of
speculation. But Donald Trump telling Costa that those conversations
haven`t happened, quote, “I have no interest in a media company, false

Now, here is the last big thing here. This is what I have asked Joy Reid
to come back down to the studio to talk with me about. Robert Costa says
in this interview, “Trump took an unprompted shot at Anderson Cooper of CNN
who is one of the moderators selected by the Commission on Presidential
Debates to moderate one of the presidential head to head debates this

An unprompted shot means Robert did not bring up this as an issue, but
Trump himself went out of his way to say this. This is the direct quote
from Trump in tonight`s Washington Post. Wow.

Here it goes, “I don`t think Anderson Cooper should be a moderator because
Anderson Cooper works for CNN, and over the last couple of days, I have
seen how Anderson Cooper behaves.” I don`t know what he is talking about

Quote, “He will be very biased, very biased. I don`t think he should be a
moderator. I`ll participate but I don`t think he should be a moderator.
CNN is the Clinton News Network. Anderson Cooper, I don`t think he can be

I have felt from the very beginning that it was 50/50 as to whether or not
Donald Trump was actually to go through with the presidential debates this
year, by flat out saying that Anderson Cooper should not be a moderator, I
think we`re further down that road than we were before.

Lots of breaking news tonight. Lot`s of stuff still going on. Joy Reid is
going to be with us next.

Stay with us.


MADDOW: This is one of those days and one of those nights when the news is
going to keep breaking late into the evening. In fact, the news is still
developing over the course of tonight in terms of the presidential

Let me tell you a couple things. First of all, the big breaking news story
tonight in terms of information we have just gotten in is this blockbuster
interview that Robert Costa has done with Donald Trump in which Donald
Trump refuses to say whether or not President Obama was born in this

He is going back to his birther roots. It`s an incredible time in the
campaign to be doing that. He is also raising the prospect he objects to
one of the moderators who has been chosen for the debates. Does that mean
the presidential debates will not go on as scheduled?

I should tell you that Robert Costa will be live with Brian Williams on
this network at 11:00. That`s in the “11TH HOUR” tonight with Brian
Williams. You should know that.

I should tell you that Bill Clinton is doing this appearance on “The Daily
Show” with Trevor Noah on Comedy Central tonight. And we have just gotten
word that we`re about to keep a clip from that. So, we will have that for
you in just a second.

Joy Reid with us next. Stay with us.



CLINTON: Today, he did it again. He was asked one more time, “Where was
President Obama born?” And he still wouldn`t say Hawaii. He still
wouldn`t say America. This man wants to be our next president?


MADDOW: Hillary Clinton speaking tonight to the Congressional Hispanic
Caucus at their big annual dinner Washington, D.C. Those remarks were
moments ago. But, of course, everything she did today is more newsworthy
than usual because this is her first day back on the campaign trail.

Those remarks we played there right now, those were specifically notable
and news worthy because she turned those around right quick.

This interview tonight in which Donald Trump indeed refused to say whether
or not he believes President Obama is an American, whether or not he was
born in the United States, this interview has just posted this evening at
the front page of “The Washington Post”.

Joining us now is Joy Reid, host of “A.M. JOY”, weekend mornings on MSNBC,
doing triple duty tonight.

Hi, dear. Thank you for being here.

REID: Thank you for having me.

MADDOW: I want to take a step back. There`s an interesting history about
Donald Trump and this claim about President Obama being secretly foreign
and not really president. There`s history about it in terms of his
campaign manager saying he no longer believes that.

Just – can you explain to me your view of what – what is so politically
salient about that claim from him?

REID: Well, you know, for one thing, there`s a large percentage – it`s
hard to tell what it is. I was looking up polls of what percentage of
Republicans actually agree with Donald Trump on the birtherism issue.
There were polls taken during the primary that showed a high number. One
in two Republican primary voters believing his birthplace was suspect more
than believed for instance about Ted Cruz. And there`s one poll, there was
YouGov poll –

MADDOW: Ted Cruz was, in fact, born abroad.

REID: More people believed Ted Cruz was born in the United States than
believe that Barack Obama was born in the United States. So, I think part
of it is the base. But I think the other part is you are seeing Donald
Trump at his sort of peak self-confidence when he gets into the mode of
saying he doesn`t have to change fundamental things like birtherism is
because he feels right now that he is winning.

So he is going back to the well, going back to things he thinks make him
popular. And for part of the base, these make him popular. The
interesting thing is he is giving Hillary Clinton an opening that she
needs, because Hillary Clinton right now needs to do two things. She needs
to remind voters, particularly young voters and voters of color that you
need to be afraid of a Donald Trump presidency. You need to be excited
about voting against him.

But she`s in the polls this week has learned she needs to create
affirmative support for herself. So, I think, tonight, she did the
affirmative part in her speech. You see they made sure they got in the
birther thing. It`s very helpful particularly with African-Americans.

MADDOW: On that last point there, today one of the things that I was
researching and looking at and try doing some sort of additional reporting
on or getting some new perspective on was the trip that Donald Trump took
to Flint yesterday. A few different headlines out of that. He is finally
trying to get involved in the Flint issue. Good for him. He is getting
involved in a way that the mayor and local officials are like, you are not

But he had this incident at the church. He is speaking before a stony-
faced, not interested, sparse group of mostly African-Americans, sort of a
youngish – mostly African-American crowd. The headline moment was when
the pastor said, this is not what we asked you to come here for.

REID: Yes.

MADDOW: You are not supposed to make a political speech to talk about
Flint. And that was a confrontation. There`s a lot of story about that.

But I was looking at first person video shot by people in the room. Trump
said today on Fox that that room loved him. That pastor was terrible but
the room loved him. The audience was with him.

From the perspective of people in the audience, they were yelling at him
the whole time. The pastor saved him. The last thing that was really
literally screamed at Donald Trump as he was run out of that room,
uncomfortably, was, “Do you admit that President Obama was born in the
United States?”

REID: Yes.

MADDOW: Why is it such a flashpoint?

REID: Because for African-Americans , it was the attempt by this then-
gadfly Donald Trump to humiliate the first black president of the United
States, to make him show his papers as if we were in apartheid South

It`s one of the reasons African-Americans are the most diametrically
opposed to Donald Trump even though he is doing this pinball thing where he
is trying to pull in African-Americans in part by turning them against
migrants of Hispanic origins. It`s one of the things he does.

But what is interesting about that Flint trip and about the interview with
the pastor, our understanding is that Armstrong Williams sort of informally
helping the Trump campaign –

MADDOW: Yes, he thanked Armstrong from the podium. It`s one of the things
I didn`t understand who he was talking to, because you couldn`t see
Williams in the frame. But he was talking to him backstage.

REID: Exactly. So, you have a certain number of African-American
Republicans who are trying to help Donald Trump do this black outreach.
But when they put him in front of African-American audiences, he gets quite
a negative or a stoic or a non-reaction. And so, I think what you are
going to start to see is let`s attempts to listen to those advisers and put
himself in those rooms, because invariably Donald Trump turns around and
makes a completely different story about what happened for a white audience
when he goes to FOX News which has a very tiny African-American audience,
he can confidently boast that, oh, the room loved me and that pastor was

But in fact, he backed down to that pastor. He was incredibly passive in
her presence. Donald Trump the blusterer is not the same guy when he is in
front of the audience he is insulting, when he is in front of the Mexican

MADDOW: When he is confronted by anyone.

REID: When he is confronted, he backs down immediately and then turns
around and tells a story about how tough he was.

I think that the more he puts himself in front of audiences of color, the
more he shows off that he is both passive and aggressive. He is only
aggressive when he is not in the presence of the person he is bullying.
When he gets in front of the person that he previously insulted, he becomes
incredibly passive.

MADDOW: If we are back to Donald Trump`s birther days, if that`s what we
are back to on the campaign trail, it`s another I think 90-degree pivot. I
don`t know what comes next.

REID: Absolutely.

MADDOW: Joy Reid is the host of “A.M. JOY”, weekend mornings on MSNBC, and
batting cleanup for all of us around here these days. Thank you.

REID: Thank you. Always great to be here.

MADDOW: All right. Much more ahead this business news night. We are
cueing up – we have now? We now have the clip of Bill Clinton on “The
Daily Show.” We think we will have it for you next.

Stay with us.


MADDOW: OK, first of all, by popular demand, here is that clip again of
Jimmy Fallon touching the hair. Just one more time.


FALLON: Can I mess your hair up?


FALLON: I will be gentle. I will be gentle.

TRUMP: As long – the answer is yes. But the people in New Hampshire
where I`m going to be in an hour from now, I hope they`re going to

FALLON: You say yes?

TRUMP: Go ahead.

FALLON: Yes. Donald Trump, everybody. I will do it as well. Donald
Trump, everybody.


MADDOW: OK. That is part of your late night TV experience tonight.

But so is this. Former President Bill Clinton just taped an appearance on
Comedy Central`s “The Daily Show.” I have not seen this clip yet. But
this is the clip that we got from that taping. I am forewarned that it`s
not funny.

But here`s what we got.


BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT: I think that both these candidates have
had a lot of experiences, they have made a lot of decisions. Those
decisions have had consequences. There`s a record of them.

So, this is being – saying she`s an insider, I`m an outsider, there`s one
big difference. Most of her strongest supporters are people who have
worked for her or have done business with him. They are for her, too.


MADDOW: And then Trevor Noah messed up his hair. No, he didn`t.

Lots going on tonight. Please stay with us.


MADDOW: So, what is the right height? For the right height for trees, see
the great state of Michigan.


should love this state. Just feels good being back in Michigan. You know,
the trees are the right height.


MADDOW: Michigan famously has trees that are just the right height. The
right height for a presidential candidate, that`s a more complicated

Actually, even the height of a current presidential candidate, that turns
out to be a complicated question. For example, Google thinks that Donald
Trump is 6`2”. Something called says that Donald Trump is
6`2”. The Forbes chronicle of Donald Trump`s life, it says Donald Trump is

But this new health letter from Mr. Trump`s doctor says he is not 6`2”,
says he`s 6`3”, which might be a minority opinion. But if he is 6`3”
instead of 6`2”, at his weight, that would bump him up from obese at 6`2”
to just technically overweight at 6`3”.

So, maybe there`s some intensive in the height there. Who knows? I mean,
who knows? Maybe he expands and contracts with the weather. Maybe he is
still growing. Maybe he`s still growing. I don`t know.

But hold that thought.



DR. MEHMET OZ, THE DR. OZ SHOW: Your liver function, your thyroid function
is all normal. You have a colonoscopy performed July 10th, 2013, which is
normal. No polyps. Calcium score in your heart in 2013 also was low at

My goodness. EKG chest x-ray on April 14th was normal. A normal
echocardiogram was done two years ago. And your testosterone is 441 which
is actually, it`s good.




MADDOW: For the first time in the history of the republic, a would-be
president of the United States has made a public declaration of his level
of testosterone. And he got a round of applause for it.

Romney, Obama, even John McCain with his hundreds or thousands of pages of
documentation, nobody ever publicly proclaimed their testosterone level
before Donald Trump did today. Medical significance, I don`t know. I`m
not that kind of doctor.

We do have one here, maybe she can tell us the medical significance of why
that was brought up. I don`t know.

Psychological significance, what it`s doing for insecurities in the world.
You can talk amongst yourselves.

Last night, we got medical information released by the Clinton campaign on
both Hillary Clinton, from her doctor, and Tim Kaine from his doctor.

NBC`s Dr. Natalie Azar was here with us looking at the documentation to
explain the significance of that information and to give us the bottom line
on the candidate`s health. I said last night with frustration that we
didn`t really have any information to go on about the other candidate,
Donald Trump. And so, it wasn`t really possible to make a comparison.

Well, now we`ve got that new information, including his testosterone level,
who asked for that?

Joining us now is Dr. Natalie Azar, NBC News medical contributor.

Dr. Azar, thank you again for being here. Appreciate it.

for having me.

MADDOW: You said last night that we just didn`t have enough information to
go on in terms of a layman`s characterization of Donald Trump`s health.
Having seen this letter that came out today, do you feel like there is –
that you understand more than you did before?

AZAR: Yes, I think that the letter that we got, the information that we
got does give us a lot of information. And I would argue at this point an
adequate amount of information, just to get a good picture of his general

We have laboratories, we have his lipid profile, which was excellent, by
the way, which I would anticipate, since he`s on a statin drug.

MADDOW: Sorry. Lipid means and stuff?

AZAR: His good cholesterol is very good. His bad cholesterol is nice and
low. His triglycerides are normal. That`s all very good.\

MADDOW: But if it looks good and you are on a medication, that means that
it`s working for you.

AZAR: Absolutely, which is good, because that`s healthy for you.

MADDOW: He said he did go through four different drugs before he found one
working for him. Is that a common thing?

AZAR: The statin, the efficacy of the statin is pretty good. Sometimes
people don`t tolerate them. You know, they got a lot of muscle pain and
whatnot. So, I don`t know the details of why he had more than one. But
suffice it to say, it appears to be working.


AZAR: We have, as you calculated, or mentioned, we have some vital signs
for him, blood pressure, height and weight, BMI, some results of some
screening tests, colonoscopy. We had EKG, chest x-ray, really nothing that
I could see that was omitted. He`s had, you know, I mentioned the cancer
screening, age appropriate health maintenance stuff.

I didn`t hear a lot about immunizations. That`s important, but it`s not,
it`s not the, the omission of that doesn`t mean anything significant to me.

MADDOW: One of the things we talked about last night was the type of
imaging that Hillary Clinton got that diagnosed her pneumonia on September
9th. There was an interesting moment where the TV doctor, Dr. Oz said, is
reading through this letter which we`re told he never had seen before he
saw it on camera, and he exclaims, “My goodness, his EKG, chest x-ray on
April 14 was normal, a normal echocardiogram.” He seems to be exclaiming
that he`s had those tests, that he`s had those exams.

Do you have any insight there?

AZAR: You know, I saw the clips also. And I don`t know how much of his
reaction or his response was really trying to convey something to us. I
think he was pleasantly surprised that he had all of this information in
front of him. That was really pretty complete if you`re talking about
cardiology and cardiovascular stuff which we`ve been kind of rehashing a
little bit this week about cardiovascular, risk factors and whatnot.

So, look, I mean, I think we got a lot of good information. We got a lot
of information from Clinton`s camp. I think we`ve spent a lot of time
talking about who is healthy and who is healthier and I think the
conversation is probably better focused on rather comparing the two,
because it`s almost like comparing apples and oranges.

Some of Trump`s data was a couple of years old. He`s an older male, it
really is, you really can`t discuss evidence-based to compare a man and a
woman together per se, you know what I`m saying? But rather that is each
person healthy enough? Is there anything that seems to be disqualifying in
their medical histories that would render either of them to be unfit as

And I think most of us who`ve analyzed the information as we do all the
time, analytically look at people`s records and make, you know, draw
conclusions from that, I think most of us would think that both of them are
healthy enough.

MADDOW: Have made adequate disclosure and seem, based on those disclosures
seem to meet baseline requirements for doing this type of job.

AZAR: Exactly, Rachel.

MADDOW: And it`s gratuitous or not gratuitous to throw in your
testosterone level in a public document like this?

AZAR: It`s interesting. And for him, I will say that`s a good number to
have, because it`s cardio-protective. It`s a check mark in his favor. And
it`s almost time to move on, you know?

MADDOW: It definitely is.


AZAR: They`re both healthy enough to be president in most of the experts`
estimations, and I think we should close the record on the scrutiny.

MADDOW: Well, it didn`t need to be this much of a circus but –

AZAR: It took on a life of its own, you know, certainly the need to defend
Clinton`s health, because of, you know, the spotlight that was shown on it
in the last week or two.

MADDOW: Dr. Natalie Azar, NBC News medical contributor, thank you. I
appreciate it. I don`t anticipate we`ll be talking about this tomorrow.

Thank you. I jinxed it. I jinxed it.

We`ll be right back.


MADDOW: What I said at the top of the show that there`s a lot of balls in
the air tonight, I meant that literally in one sense. Chris Hayes threw
out the first pitch at Wrigley Field tonight, did you see how it went? Did
you see? That and more, still ahead.

Stay with us.


MADDOW: Our own Chris Hayes throwing out the first pitch at Wrigley Field


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A life-long Cubs fan, Chris Hayes!


MADDOW: Oh, God bless him.

Chris went up to the mound, threw it.

He described it himself as a ball about three inches off the right side of
the plate to a righty. He wrote on Twitter, “Crucially, didn`t bounce it.”
Ha, God bless you, Chris Hayes, may the baseball gods always smile upon
you, unless your Cubs happen to be playing the Red Sox.

That does it for us tonight. We`ll see you again tomorrow.


Good evening, Lawrence.



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