The Rachel Maddow Show, Transcript 6/8/2016

Nina Turner

Date: June 8, 2016
Guest: Nina Turner

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC ANCHOR: And thanks to you at home for joining us this

In 1964, the Republican presidential primaries were a little bit of a mess
that year or at least they were hard to follow, it was hard to figure out
who was ahead. The first primary that year was won by this guy, the second
one that year was won by this guy, the third one that year was won by this
guy. Every new primary, it was a new winner and they weren`t like world
famous people – sort of all over the map.

Of course, at that time, 1964, the primary system itself was pretty new.
Not every candidate for president was definitely competing in all of the
primaries. At that point, people mostly still expected that nominees would
be picked at the conventions, rather than through these state-by-state
contests, these state-by-state primaries.

But in 1964, there were a bunch of state-by-state primaries and about two
months into them, 11 primaries into it that year, by 11 primaries in, six
different guys had won at least one of the primaries and a bunch of them
are really guys you truly have never heard of, right? Any of these guys
look familiar?

But one of the candidates who competed that year and never won a thing
ended up becoming a future president. He had no luck at all that year in
1964, but he did run hard in this big field of all these unknowns with
everybody winning a different one, each state being a new never heard of
him before kind of winner.

This future president did run hard in 1964. In one state that he ran in,
he went so far as to higher and then hide away a secret all female phone
squad in a futile effort to win the primary that year in the great state of
Oregon. It was exposed by a news crew.

Watch this.


REPORTER: His headquarters in still another store looks the same as all
the others, pamphlets, posters, stickers, lapel buttons and so on. But the
Nixon people upstairs have another operation they`ve tried to keep secret
and until now they did. Set up on the fifth floor with about 50 telephones
are about 30 girls hired from one of those places furnishing temporary
office help.

They spend the day phoning around asking people how they plan to vote. If
they say Nixon they get a kind word and thanks and if they say somebody
else they get a Nixon sales talk.

As we say, they try to keep the phone set up secret perhaps to make it
appear he was making no effort in Oregon and when our cameraman pushed his
way in, he was asked to get out.


MADDOW: That was NBC News reporting in 1964 on Richard Nixon`s secret
hideaway of 30 girls that he had hired from a temp agency to set up what I
guess was a very early version of a political phone bank. He wanted to
keep it secret so nobody would know he was trying in Oregon when he went on
to lose Oregon very badly.

So, on that same night that NBC News exposed the secret Nixon phone bank in
Oregon, that same reporter in Oregon for NBC also found and exposed another
stealthy all girl effort for a different candidate in that primary. And
this one, though, was one where the ladies didn`t have to be hired to do
the work. This other one that that same reporter found those ladies were
there of their own volition.


REPORTER: And Senator Margaret Chase Smith is on the ballot too because of
a lot of Oregon ladies wanted her on and got up enough petitions to force
it. And now, they`re trying to gather some votes and a trip to Oregon.

Here in Eugene, some of her boosters are collecting trading stamps to buy
her an airplane ticket out here from Washington, and they mailed out cards
asking donations of stamps. Now, they are meeting, licking stamps, pasting
them in books and either getting money for them or turning them in for
merchandise and selling that.

At this hour, it is not clear whether they`ll get Mrs. Smith out here or
not. She hasn`t been here yet. If she doesn`t make it, it won`t be for
lack of stamp licking. So far as we know, this is a political first, a
campaign financed with trading stamps.


MADDOW: The first woman who ran in a major party primary for president in
this country was Margaret Smith. She`s also the first woman ever elected
to both the U.S. House and U.S. Senate. She had been married to a member
of Congress from Maine and she was first elected to his house seat in a
special election after he died.

But thereafter on her own terms she was elected and reelected as a zillion
times in her own name, both in the House and then in the Senate before she
decided in 1964 that she would make a pioneering run for president.

Look at this universal news reel from 1964, when she was going to run for
president. Look at what they titled this piece about her. See, it wasn`t
a man throwing his hat in the ring, it`s Senator Margaret Smith. So, it`s
her “bonnet in the ring”.


REPORTER: Senator Margaret Chase Smith of Maine makes the announcement
that she will seek the Republican presidential nomination.

SEN. MARGARET CHASE SMITH (R), MAINE: Because of these very reasons
against my running I have decided that I shall.


REPORTER: For the first time in the nation`s political history, a woman is
actively seeking the presidential nomination of a major party. In
campaigning, she`s an effective speaker but everywhere the key question is
about a woman running for president.

And at the University of New Hampshire, Mrs. Smith was asked a question
about how she as a woman president might deal with Nikita Khrushchev.

SMITH: I think I could outtalk him.


I`ve had a little experience with Mr. Khrushchev, as you may have read in
the papers or have heard. I made a couple of major speeches on nuclear
posture, and immediately got a response from Mr. Khrushchev. He said I was
an Amazon war-monger.



MADDOW: Margaret Chase Smith was a Republican. She was an experienced
politician. She had 24 years in Washington by the time she was running for
president, both in the House and the Senate.

Twenty-four years in Washington. She got reelected over and over and over
again. She was very popular.

She was a bit of a specialist on national security issues. You see from
those clips, she was soft spoken but she was very charismatic, she was very
funny. She could hold a room. She was a good speaker.

But her campaign in 1964, this idea of her a woman running for president of
all things, right, it was treated like some kind of a cross between a magic
trick and some charming diversion you might asked a trained child to
perform at a dinner party for adults.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where will your Washington headquarters be or where
will you begin to receive campaign contributions?

SMITH: The chair of the Republican National Committee his office will be
headquarters for the campaign contributions.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will you be willing to debate Rocky and Barry and
Harold in New Hampshire?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who will be your running mate?


SMITH: None of the candidates have indicated any desire.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What would you do as a candidate to breakdown
discrimination against women?

SMITH: Well, if I – if the people of this country don`t know what I would
do from what I have done, I don`t think that I could add any information to


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Senator, if you can`t make it yourself, which
candidate would you support for president? Goldwater, Rockefeller, Nixon,
Scranton, or who else?

SMITH: Well, again I must answer that I`m a candidate for president and
I`m not supporting anybody else.



MADDOW: So, the joke is that she is the one running for president. She`s
not supporting somebody else that`s running. That itself is a spectacular
punch line. I mean, that`s what`s so hilarious among this crowd.

This is a crowd that is for her, that is supportive. They`re not laughing
at her in a mean way. They are laughing at the circumstance they find
themselves in – the very idea that a woman would even try this. It`s like
stand up.

Margaret Chase Smith obviously did not win the Republican presidential
nomination in 1964, in that chaotic primary year. The Republican Party
instead picked Barry Goldwater who most of the country thought was a nut,
and the Republican Party got absolutely shellacked up and down the ticket
in one of their worse general election performances in the history of that

But Margaret Chase Smith, that same year she was the first woman who made a
major party try for the presidency as a declared candidate running in the
primaries, even if she did have to use trading stamps to try to finance her
plane tickets to some of the faraway primaries. That was 52 years ago.

The highest profile woman to run for president after Margaret Chase Smith
was the pioneering New York African-American Congresswoman Shirley Chisholm
who ran eight years later in 1972.


something, I don`t have any advanced men. I don`t have any public
relations men. You know that not only am I literally and figuratively the
dark horse, I`m actually the poor horse. The only thing I have going for
me is my soul and my commitment to the American people.

I stand before you today to repudiate the notion that the American people
will not vote for qualified candidate simply because he is not white or
because she`s not a male. I do not believe that in 1972, the great
majority of Americans will continue to harbor such narrow and petty

I just want to say this and it`s very important for all Americans to
recognize, the United States Constitution stipulates that anyone that is 35
years of age and over and a natural born citizen can run for the
presidency. All of us meet that criteria, the people will make the


REPORTER: This is Shirley Chisholm announced she`s running for president
today. Would you vote for a woman for president?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t want women a president, men.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think president is a man`s job.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t think they`re as level-headed yet as the men

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it`s about time. I think it`s about time for
Shirley because things are bad as it is. They can`t do worse. They can do

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I don`t think they could handle the job.

REPORTER: Would you vote for a woman as president.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not as yet. I don`t think women are ready for
presidency. They need a little time.

REPORTER: Excuse me, sir. Sir. Hi, Ms. Chisholm said today that she`s
going to run for president of the United States. Would you vote for her?
Would you vote for a woman?

Would you vote for a woman for president? Would you vote for a woman for

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, yes. I can`t talk.


MADDOW: See, the whole concept is hilarious. That was a year before I was
born. That was 1972.

Margaret Chase Smith had been the first in 1964. Shirley Chisholm was
eight years later. But in both cases, the very concept of a woman making a
run for president was inherently hilarious.

In August, this summer, the Summer Olympics are going to start in Rio.
There`s always drama around the Olympics. The Olympics by their nature are
dramatic, right? This year, there`s extra drama because of the doping

There`s a lot of extra Olympics drama this year specifically because of
where the Olympics are being held as well. There`s worries about the
facilities that Brazil has built for the Olympics, whether they`re going to
be safe. There`s a lot of worries about pollution in Brazil, particularly
water pollution where Olympians are going to be swimming and sailing and

There`s also the drama and threat of the Zika virus, which is a huge
problem in Brazil and threatens to become a problem in every country of the
world in which literally every county in the world sends athletes and
coaches and teams and spectators into Brazil amid Zika infected mosquitoes
for these games.

And on top of all that drama around the Olympics this year, there`s also
the drama right now of what`s going on in the nation of Brazil because
three days before the Olympics open up in Rio in August, Brazil is
scheduled to impeach their president.

This is the president of Brazil right now, Dilma Rousseff. You see her
there in the center. Right now, she`s actually suspended from office right
now as president pending that dramatic impeachment vote right before the
Olympics start. She is the first woman who was ever elected president of
Brazil. Brazil crossed that particular bridge five years ago when Dilma
Rousseff was elected.

And this first female presidency of Brazil turns out it`s likely to be
ending in an unbelievably clamorous and dramatic fashion under the very hot
glare of international attention as the world converges on her country for
the Olympic Games.

But you know what, it is not Dilma Rousseff`s gender that makes what Brazil
going through the sort of show-stopping political and international drama.
Yes, the president of Brazil is a woman, but the rest of the world looks at
that and thinks, what else you got for me?

I mean, there are female presidents and prime ministers and chancellors all
over the world. In South Korea, in Germany, in Liberia, in Nepal, in the
Marshal Islands, which is a country that may disappear if sea levels rise
any further, in Norway, in Mauritius, in Croatia, in Malta, in Lithuania.
I mean, these are all countries that are led by a woman president or prime
minister or chancellor right now and that`s not an exhaustive list.

But in terms of the glass ceiling being broken for national leadership by
women, it has happened everywhere. I mean, from Turkey to Sri Lanka to
Indonesia, the world`s most populous Muslim country, to Malawi, to the
Philippines, to Nicaragua, to freaking Pakistan, to Ireland, to Panama.

Why does no one have as big a problem with this as we do?

I mean, we`re not the only country in the world that`s never had a woman
president, but when you think about America among the community of nations,
you think about us and the world. You think about countries that we think
we`re like, countries that we think of as peers, we really stand out on
this front.

I mean, it is quaint to look back to the 1970s and the 1960s in this
country as Shirley Chisholm and Margaret Chase Smith were being genially
laughed at as women who were daffy and adorable enough to even think of
themselves as somebody who might run for president. Imagine her picking a
running mate. Ha, pause for applause.

It`s quaint to look back at that old black-and-white super dated footage
from our country`s past to see how would-be women leaders were dismissed
and mocked. But at that same time in the world that was happening here,
contemporaneously, with that huge joke in the United States, in 1966,
there`s India electing Indira Gandhi, to lead a nation of 450 million

In 1969, there`s Israel picking Golda Meir. Even before that in 1960,
there`s Sri Lanka picking a female prime minister, in 1960. In 1979,
there`s Britain picking Margaret Thatcher. In 1988, there`s the
aforementioned freaking Pakistan picking Benazir Bhutto. In 1986, there`s
the Philippines picking Corazon Aquino.

What is our problem exactly? Why has our country been so particularly
resistant over all these years when not just our closest allies in the
world were choosing female leaders but so were the countries that we sort
of smugly look down on, right, as backward in the way they treat their

All these other countries, all these other continents, our allies and our
enemies, progressive countries, conservative countries, they have gotten
there years, decades before the United States has even meaningfully tried
and we`re still not on the board.

I mean, the leap we have just taken as President Obama called Hillary
Clinton last night to congratulate her for clinching the Democratic
nomination, the leap we have just now in this moment taken, is only to the
point where we now have a major party candidate for president who is a
woman, and that is a necessary but not sufficient step to getting our first
woman leader.

And so, there`s a lot to get to tonight. There`s a lot of news to cover
tonight. Specifically about how and whether Hillary Clinton may end up
becoming president if she can win this election.

But last night, on the last major night of competition in this year`s
Democratic primary, she won New Jersey by 26 points, she won California by
13 points, which is a way bigger margin than anybody expected or any poll
predicted. She clinched the majority of pledged delegates to go along with
her locking up the total number of delegates she needs to clinch the

And that is still not the United States getting its first woman president.
But it is in our own meager way, it is history. It is further than we have
ever gone before. We just haven`t gone very far before and it says a lot
about Hillary Clinton, it says a lot about her, that she`s the one who has
been able to do it. That she`s been able to go further than any other
woman has gone in American history, but it also says a lot about American
history it has taken us to 2016 to even hit this milestone.

As to whether or not she`s going to hit the next one, whether she`s going
to go all the way, news is coming in fast and furious and tonight we have
new details tonight about President Obama`s planned meeting in he Oval
Office tomorrow one-on-one with Senator Bernie Sanders. We`ve got a live
interview in just a moment with a high ranking member of the Sanders
campaign about how the Democratic Party will finish its primary. NBC News
is reporting tonight that the Sanders campaign may be dropping a key part
of its effort to lobby super delegates to switch support to Bernie Sanders.

On the Republican side, the car crash of Donald Trump`s candidacy continued
wreaking havoc among other elected Republicans in the Republican Party

There`s a lot to get to. That is coming up tonight and in coming days and

But Margaret Chase Smith died in 1995. Shirley Chisholm died a decade
later, she died New Year`s Day 2005. So, neither got to see where we are
now. But when Hillary Clinton got there last night, the thing that struck
me most looking back on history at the other women who went before her, who
tried but did not make it, the thing that struck me most about Hillary
Clinton finally getting there last night is that it may have taken 52 years
since Margaret Chase Smith, but this time nobody`s laughing.


mother was born in Chicago, Congress was passing the 19th Amendment to the
Constitution. That amendment finally gave women the right to vote and –


I really – I really wish my mother could be here tonight. I wish she
could see what a wonderful mother Chelsea has become and could meet our
beautiful granddaughter Charlotte.


And, of course, I wish she could see her daughter become the Democratic
Party`s nominee.




MADDOW: Picture screw ups are my favorite kind of screw ups. My second
favorite kind of screw ups are same name screw ups. Tonight, the twain
shall meet. This is so awesome and wrong.

One of the people who ran for president in 1964 was Henry Cabot Lodge, Jr.
Junior is really important because it`s definitely not this guy, his
grandfather, Henry Cabot Lodge, Sr., who we showed a moment ago as a 1964
presidential candidate even though he died in 1924 and I believe that
facial hair like that was illegal in 1964.

So, both black-and-white, both Henry Cabot Lodges, definitely not the same
person. That`s one of the funniest family mistakes we`ve made in quite
some time. We regret the error. Sorry to the Lodges.

We`ll be right back.


MADDOW: Del Norte, Colorado, has a population of about 3,300. Here`s Del
Norte, Colorado, on a map, lovely part of Colorado. As the crow flies,
it`s basically between Pueblo and Durango, but it`s in a pretty rural part
of the state.

Thanks to some very good, very detailed data-mining by “The L.A. Times”
recently, we can tell you the political news that the good folks of Del
Norte, Colorado, sent collectively $417 total to the Bernie Sanders for
president campaign. Of everybody who lives in that town, they sent $417.

So if you want to come up with a per capita Bernie Sanders donation on
average, right, 3,300 people divided by $417 that`s about 13 cents per
capita donated to Bernie Sanders from Del Norte, Colorado.

In Corvallis, Oregon, different story, population 20,000 in Corvallis.
Folks there sent Bernie Sanders almost $60,000 collectively. So, that
works out to a lot per capital. That`s $2.87 per capita donated to the
Bernie Sanders campaign from Corvallis, Oregon.

But if you really want to know where people are sending their money to
Bernie, it`s his home state of Vermont. If you look at the donations to
Bernie Sanders` presidential campaign on a per capita basis in Vermont it
averages out to every man, woman and child in that state giving him almost
10 bucks for his presidential campaign. That`s a lot when you`re talking
about the whole state.

The folks who gave him the most per person throughout this campaign were
the folks who know him best as a public official. His constituents in
Vermont, at home, those were the people that turned out and lined the
streets to greet him when he landed at the Burlington airport today in
Vermont as he flew home from the California primary.


MADDOW: Bernie Sanders and his wife Jane embracing supporters in their
hometown of Burlington, Vermont, this afternoon. Bernie Sanders ended up
being the second most popular Democratic presidential candidate this year.
But by far, it`s useful to remember that he is by far the most popular U.S.
senator in this country.

That`s even before he started running for president but it`s still true
now. Senator Sanders` constituents like him as a senator more than any
other state likes their senator. His latest job approval rating in Vermont
is 83 percent. He`s more popular with his constituents than any other
senator in the country. And so, today, welcome home, Senator Sanders.

Tomorrow morning will be back to the airport as Bernie Sanders will head to
Washington, D.C. for an important one-on-one meeting in the Oval Office
with President Obama.

“The New York Times” reporting that the president plans to delicately nudge
Senator Sanders toward a full embrace of Hillary Clinton`s presidential
candidacy. There`s wide speculation there is not to say there will be any
presidential endorsement for Hillary Clinton over the next couple of days.

It`s also widely expected that Bernie Sanders isn`t going anywhere any time
until at least the D.C. primary happens on Tuesday.

NBC News reports tonight that Senator Bernie Sanders is holding off on
something his campaign had previously planned to do today. Sanders
campaign has not yet sent out a letter that his campaign had previously
planned to send today to Democratic super delegates, asking those super
delegates to switch their support from Secretary Clinton to Bernie Sanders.
They haven`t sent that letter.

So, that particular part of the lobbying effort for super delegates, that
may be slowing down. It may be stopped. But in terms of what else happens
next, I don`t know. I do not know.

And, you know what, neither do you. It`s up to Senator Sanders. Anybody
else who says they can predict his next actions based on something that
somebody is advising him to do, or something that somebody else has done in
the previous race, anybody who says they can predict what`s going to happen
other than the senator himself honestly has not been paying attention to
this primary this year and all of the twists and turns.

Joining us now is Nina Turner. She`s a former state senator from Ohio.
She`s a prominent Bernie Sanders supporter.

Senator Turner, it`s great to see you again. I know you were probably up
all night last night. Thanks for being back with us.

NINA TURNER, BERNIE SANDERS SUPPORTER: Thanks, Rachel, for having me.

MADDOW: So, it was interesting to see Senator Sanders` constituents, his
hometown supporters turn out on the streets and welcome home to Burlington.
As a supporter of his, somebody who is very much involved in the campaign,
where do you feel like the campaign is right now? What kind of decisions
are being made?

TURNER: I mean, I really believe the senator is still where he was from
the beginning. I know a lot of people don`t get it when politicians mean
what they say and say what they mean because so many don`t.

But Senator Bernie Sanders has been a consistent man of his word, and when
he says he`s going all the way to the convention, he is going all the way.
And as we saw last night, Rachel, you and Brian and others on MSNBC team,
you got a chance to feel and to hear that room.

The senator gave the same speech as you know that he has given countless
times about what is important in this country in terms of social justice,
criminal justice, economic justice, getting big money out of politics so
that the voices of every day people are not drawn – are not drowned out.

But, so, Senator Sanders is still just as strong and committed to all of
those issues as he ever has been and, Rachel, in many ways, this is his
life`s work. This is not something that he just started. I think one of
his colleagues in the Senate and I forget what senator said it, Senator
Sanders has been saying this for the last 30 years and, you know what?
Democrats in the Congress weren`t listening, so he took it to the people.
And we have a people`s movement going in this country right now.

MADDOW: In terms of going to the convention, obviously, one of the things
that he has achieved through this campaign is that he has good
representation for the platform committee. He was able to leverage the DNC
into giving a number of spots to Sanders supporters, to those key
committees that are going to make decisions about the future of the party
at the convention.

Is that the kind of fight that he`s taking to the convention, those sorts
of internal Democratic Party decisions about the platform, about the way
the primaries are run next time around, about what the party says that it
stands for in the formal documents of the party.

I mean, I ask that because there isn`t – as far just being straight to
you, there isn`t a way for him to achieve the nomination on any realistic
way, but there are other things he could achieve at that convention.

TURNER: Well, Rachel, he`s going all the way. He promised that.

I mean, we have over 11 million people who have voted for the senator and
that`s not counting the caucuses. But you talked about him being the
second most popular Democrat, I would argue he is still the first most
popular Democrat and not popular just for the sake of popularity, but
popular in a sense that not only was he able to get over 11 million votes,
he touched over 1.5 million people through rallies all across this country
because he made them believe, Rachel, he made them believe that there could
be the type of leadership in this country that puts poor mammas and daddies

The type of leadership in this country that will say to our young children
that you can go to college no matter who your parents are or not, and guess
what United States of America, we`re going to follow the rest of the
industrialized world and have universal health care as a right in this

So, it is all of those things, Rachel. It`s not just a platform because as
you know, not many presidential candidates follow that platform throughout
their entire service in that office. But this is about making that
platform come alive and empowering people to hold their elected officials
accountable for the words that are on that paper. I think that is an
important first step, but it`s not the only step.

It is not just about – I think if the Democrats want to have love and
happiness, they might get some love but they`re not going to have a lot of
happiness. People are awake because of Bernie Sanders. He should get up.

And 2016 is nothing like 2008. I think you might agree with me on that.

MADDOW: Well, I agree with you that no election is ever exactly like any
one that came before.

But I do – I guess what I want to know is when you talk about making that
platform come alive and making it into something where the people can hold
Democratic officials accountable for that, what do you mean?

I mean, I know he wanted to win the nomination but I know that he didn`t
and I know that that is something that we haven`t heard from Senator
Sanders yet. Officially, I expect we will hear it from him eventually, but
short of getting the nomination, he has achieved a lot. And I want to know
how he`s going to claim that while Hillary Clinton also claims the

TURNER: I mean, he has achieved a lot extraordinary. I mean, he was –
he`s somebody that came from Vermont and you highlighted how the folks in
Vermont feel about him and his service as a senator to them, but the way
that he does that is to keep the political revolution alive.

Ultimately, what happens is up to Senator Sanders but he has no minced any
words about how he`s going to go all the way to this convention. But the
way – many way, a way to hold the folks accountability is we should get
those words on the platform but words are important but deeds are more

And the way to make sure that folks are held accountable is to get those
words there and to make sure that not just Democrats, but every single
American knows what a Democrat said – would say what they stand for, and
actually what they execute in public policy.

Universal health care is not something that should be done incrementally.
Let`s do it now. Making sure that we invest in our children. Let`s do it
now, doing something about the new Jim Crow. Let`s do something right now.

So, it`s a way to measure – it`s a way we need to measure, Rachel. I know
that you know in education, there`s a midterm report and I would argue that
every single voter in this country needs to have a midterm report on the
people that they elect to office because these pretty words are not just
going do it anymore, Rachel.

I`ve traveled this entire country with Bernie Sanders and I tell you people
are hurting and there`s some people who are talking about this in a vacuum.
They`re not out there on the streets with people to see that men and women
laid off from jobs or people who don`t necessarily have all of the means to
support have been out there every single day fighting their hearts out
because of Senator Sanders mission, what he stands for and what he was
fighting for, not just for the sake of him getting to the presidency, but
what he`s fighting for.

MADDOW: Nina Turner, former state senator from Ohio, Bernie Sanders
surrogate and one of the most eloquent embodiments of his cause in a way
that you have explained it.

Senator, it`s really good to see you. Thank you very much. Stay in touch
with us over these next few days. We`re all watching the drama.

TURNER: Yes, yes. Thank you so much.

MADDOW: Appreciate it. Thank you.

You know, I will say Senator Sanders did really well in the 2016 primary
and not getting the nomination is not just – is not the only outcome of
this primary. The way that he was able to bring this right to the end, the
number of people he was able to bring along, the way he was able to expand
the conversation happening within and about the Democratic Party is
something that the Democratic Party needs to figure out a way to benefit
from rather than, you know, recent and want to be over because the primary
doesn`t feel like it has a tidy end.

The best way this ends for the Democratic Party is for Bernie Sanders to be
a welcomed and appreciated and integral part of the Democratic Party. He`s
operated his whole entire career outside this Democratic Party. If this
ends with him operating within it, the Democratic Party will be stronger
than it has been in years. That`s my two cents.

We`ll be right back.


MADDOW: President Obama sat down with Jimmy Fallon for an interview today.
It`s an interview that`s going to air tomorrow on the tonight show. And
it`s a pretty funny bit.

Here`s a little bit of it.


JIMMY FALLON, COMEDIAN/TV HOST: Speaking of reality TV, I don`t know if
you saw the “Celebrity Apprentice”.


FALLON: It`s a great show. Yes.

Has Donald Trump called you for advice or talked to you at all? First of
all, you`ve given him some pretty good advice so far, if you have, but has
he called and talked to you? I would –

OBAMA: No. No, he hasn`t. No.


OBAMA: Not that I know of. No.

FALLON: Do you think the Republicans are happy with their choice?

OBAMA: We are, but I don`t know how they – I don`t now how they`re
feeling. So – actually, you know what. That was too easy.


MADDOW: That was too easy says the president. The hard part of that
answer he gets to thereafter and we`ve got that coming up.

Stay with us.


MADDOW: And now here is the thing. This man`s name is William Johnson.
We have covered him a few times in the last few months.

William Johnson is a self proclaimed white nationalist. He leads a white
nationalist political party. His racist political party did unsolicited
robocalls for Donald Trump in a bunch of states during the Republican
primary. You might remember that.

But then after doing those racist robocalls on behalf of Donald Trump, for
a short time at least, William Johnson was declared an official campaign
delegate from the state of California for Donald Trump. He was going to go
to the Republican National Convention this summer as a Trump delegate.

Once “Mother Jones” magazine broke the news that the head of a white
nationalist party was serving as a Trump delegate, the Trump campaign
undesignated him as a delegate. They blamed a data base error for him
being selected in the first place. Like their Excel spreadsheet, somebody
deleted the column that said known “white supremacist, yes or no”.
Accidental, fat finger that one. Data base error.

So, now, the Trump campaign has disavowed Johnson and the white nationalist
party that he runs. But that has not stopped William Johnson from
remaining a big time fan of Donald Trump, and now, he has just explained
why to MSNBC`s Jacob Soboroff.

Now, here`s the thing.


JACOB SOBOROFF, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT: OK. So you`ve been in the news a


SOBOROFF: And your political views are, you are a white nationalist.

JOHNSON: Yes, I`m a nationalist, and nationalism is becoming popular right
now. Donald Trump is making it popular. We`re battling the globalism
that`s been in place for the last 40 or 50 years and Donald Trump is
leading the charge.

SOBOROFF: Donald Trump is making white nationalism popular.

JOHNSON: He`s making nationalism popular. I`m a white nationalist. You
would call him an American nationalist.

And just like nationalism is becoming popular in the Philippines, in Egypt,
and in Europe, he`s making it popular in United States.

The large influx of immigrants primarily because of the concept of
globalism has destroyed the Western civilization and Donald Trump is
battling that.

SOBOROFF: You are a Donald Trump delegate.

JOHNSON: I was a delegate in good standing for two hours.

SOBOROFF: For two hours.

JOHNSON: What happened was is I guess I slipped through the cracks and
they approved it and then there was a lot of media coverage immediately.
So, they said, oh, Johnson you are removed from the list. And so, I said,

SOBOROFF: You`re not going to be now a delegate to the Republican

JOHNSON: That is correct.

SOBOROFF: What is Donald Trump saying that is speaking to white
nationalists? Is he saying things in language that may not be explicit but
he may be giving you a signal?

JOHNSON: No, he`s explicit in his battling of globalism. We`re not going
to be supporting globalism anymore and we`re supporting nationalism. The
fact that he is politically incorrect, he`ll say what`s on his mind, that
endears him to many people, including people of my ilk.

The fact that he wants to build a wall along the southern border, the fact
that he wants to stop Muslim immigration, the fact that he wants to deport
the illegal aliens. The fact that he wants to anchor babies –

SOBOROFF: When you hear a guy like Paul Manafort, his campaign consultant,
sort of say, eh, he may not go that far.

JOHNSON: I don`t think it matters because what he is doing right now is so
good for America that regardless of what he does once he`s elected
president, it`s so good that we`re pleased with what happened.


MADDOW: Even if he doesn`t end up building the wall, what he`s doing right
now is so good, it`s so good we`re so pleased with what`s happened – so
says the gentile white supremacist next door about the campaign of the
Republican Party`s candidate for president this year.

And I`m not sure I can add anything more to make the importance of that
sink in but that is a thing that happened today. Lord, have mercy on all
of us.


MADDOW: Programming note: tomorrow night, a special guest on this show,
this former top executive, with the red arrow there – who spent years
working at a high level for Donald Trump. Her name is Barbara Res. She
knows Donald Trump very well in a business context. She is not supporting
him for president, she now says she is ready to talk about that. So,
that`s tomorrow night on this show.

Also tonight, right after this show here, on this network, on “THE LAST
WORD WITH LAWRENCE O`DONNELL”, they are going to have the full run of
Lester Holt`s interview with Hillary Clinton, one of the first interview
she`s done since she clinched the Democratic nomination.

So, Hillary Clinton interview with Lester Holt right after our show

And then, tomorrow night, a very close look with a woman who spent years
working directly with him and who has kind of an incredible story to tell
about it.

Stay with us.


MADDOW: President Obama on “The Tonight Show” just told Jimmy Fallon,
initially, that Democrats are psyched that Donald Trump is the Republican
nominee, told him that, initially, laughed, and then he walked that back
and he ended up giving a very sober explanation of why basically nobody
should be that psyched about that.

This is from the president`s conversation with Jimmy Fallon that`s going to
air tomorrow night in full on “The Tonight Show” on NBC. Watch.


FALLON: Do you think the Republicans are happy with their choice?

OBAMA: We are. I don`t know – I don`t know how they feel.


Actually, you know what – that was too easy. But – the truth is
actually, I am worried about the Republican Party. I know that sounds, you
know, you know what it sounds like.

Democracy works, this country works, when you have two parties that are
serious and trying to solve problems. They have philosophical differences,
and they have fierce debates and they argue and they contest elections.
But at the end of the day, what you want is a healthy two-party system.

You know, you want the Republican nominee to be somebody who could do the
job if they win. You want folks who understand the issues. Where you can
sit across the table from them, and you have a principled argument and
ultimately still move the country forward.

So, I actually am not enjoying, I haven`t been enjoying over the last seven
years watching some of the things that have happened in the Republican
Party, because there are some good people in the Republican Party, there
are wonderful Republicans out in the country who want the best for the
country and may disagree with me on some things, but are good, decent
people. But what`s happened in that party, culminating in this current
nomination I think is not actually good for the country as a whole. It is
not something that Democrats should wish for.

And my hope is that once you get through this cycle, there is corrective
action, there is center right party, and the Democratic Party be a center
left party, and we start figuring out how to work together.


MADDOW: A nominee like Donald Trump is not something that Democrats should
wish for. The country needs two good parties, contesting good arguments,
and a healthy two-party system.

Now that Hillary Clinton has clinched the Democratic Party nomination,
President Obama is going to be meeting with Bernie Sanders in the Oval
Office tomorrow. We know that within the last next week or so, President
Obama is going to make his endorsement and he`s going to get out on the
campaign trail for the Democratic nominee. We now know that that concern
for the health of the Republican Party under Donald Trump is going to be
part of his pitch.


MADDOW: The Bernie Sanders meeting with President Obama in the Oval Office
is scheduled for tomorrow morning at 11:15 a.m. Eastern Time. Then, at the
end of the day, 7:00 p.m. Eastern Time, Senator Sanders is going to be
holding his rally, probably a big rally at RFK Stadium in Washington, D.C.

Now, for Hillary Clinton tomorrow, there are no public events scheduled,
but she is basically on watch every day now for her impending presidential

So, everything is moving fast now, everything is a little bit unpredictable
now. Keep it here with us on MSNBC.


Good evening, Lawrence.


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