The Rachel Maddow Show, Transcript 5/4/2016

Guests:
Katie Packer
Transcript:

Show: THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW

Date: May 4, 2016
Guest: Katie Packer

CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC ANCHOR: That is all in for this evening. “The Rachel
Maddow Show” starts right now.

Good evening, Rachel.

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC ANCHOR: Good evening, my friend. Thanks very much.

And thanks to you at home for joining us this hour.

Okay. Here`s the story. Here`s I think the story. Deep breath. It was
the day before Election Day, 1992, so it was November 2nd, 1992, and it was
the last rally before Election Day of that year for H. Ross Perot, the
self-funding Texas billionaire, businessman, who was running for president
that year against both the incumbent Republican President, George H.W. Bush
and the Democratic challenger that year, Arkansas Governor Bill Clinton.
So it was Ross Perot`s last rally before Election Day. So at Election Eve
and he was in a very friendly territory in Dallas, Texas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HENRY ROSS PREOT, AMERICAN BUSINESSMAN: I`ll tell you one thing, there`s
some dude up there today that came up with the crazy thing that`s indeed
video doo right at this point because it`s backfired on them, right. OK.

Now, while we`re on the crazy theme, could you see – I`ve got a theme song
for our campaign and here it comes. Just listen to it.

(Music Playing)

Don`t worry, folks. We`ve got buses lined up out sides to take you back to
the insane asylum right after it`s over.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MADDOW: Ross Perot. That`s right. The original beam scream (ph), right.
Proudly crazy. The day before the election in 1992, Ross Perot ran for
president that year as independent and he self-funded his campaign. He
funded his campaign pretty lavishly. His campaign spending included half
hour long and hour long ads like basically T.V. shows that he paid to run
on network T.V. on week nights in prime time and it wasn`t just once, he
paid to run them a bunch of times, a bunch of different ones.

Perot spent a ton of money. He had a ton of money to spend. It was the
core of his campaign message, basically, that he was loaded and he
therefore couldn`t be bought.

Talking about his money and talking about the independence that gave him,
that became a key part of his political appeal and honestly of his charm as
a candidate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PEROT: And just to put it in Colorado terms, I have taken $60 million outs
of my wallet and put it on the table and spent it to give your country back
to you.

Now, anybody that knows me, anybody that knows me tells you I save
paperclips and let`s put it in Colorado perspective, I turned down an
opportunity one time to buy veal for less than that. So every time you go
down to that beautiful place to ski, just go on laugh to yourself and say,
“Oh, Ross, could have bought veal for less than he spent on the campaign.”

Now, watch my lips. Watch my lips. In five weeks you, on your own
initiative, in all 50 states, organize this great country and when you look
at the leaders and the people doing it they are just too good to be true
and the political pros still don`t know what hit them.

Well, there`s something you haven`t seen so far and that`s my wife. Now
like most of the men here, I married way over my head and after you see her
on 20/20 tonight, I may be off the ballot tomorrow and she may be the first
woman president, but we`ll just take that the way it goes.

So I`m anxious for you to meet Margo and she`ll be available to the nation
tonight. Oh, no, excuse me. I`m sorry. I`m sorry. She`s not here. Now,
wait a minute. You want me to just bluntly tell you why? She wants to be
here, but I love her to much to put her at risk. It`s that simple. And I
don`t have to tell you there`s weird stuff out there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MADDOW: What weird stuff? That illusion from Ross Perot in front of that
very friendly audience. He wasn`t kidding about the weirdness of what he
saw out there.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voiceover): He made the charge Sunday in his first
campaign outing since getting back in the race, saying the Republicans plan
to distribute the fake photo of his daughter Carolyn before her August 23rd
wedding.

PEROT: Smear her before her wedding and actually disrupt the wedding
ceremony.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voiceover): he repeated the charges last night on 60
minutes.

PEROT: This is Watergate II.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voiceover): Top aids to President Bush, including
Spokesman Marlin Fitzwater called Perot`s allegations preposterous.

MARLIN FITZWATER, GEORGE H.W. BUSH SPOKESMAN: There haven`t been any dirty
tricks against Ross Perot.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voiceover): Now he claims it was because the
republicans mounted a dirty tricks campaign against his daughter Carolyn.
The family says the plan was to portray her as a lesbian.

PEROT: I got this report from Salem, Arizona through an intermediary
saying he had seen a doctored photograph that they were going to give the
tabloids to smear my daughter before her wedding and that they were going
to disrupt the wedding in the church.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): The key source of the allegations
appears to be this man, Scott Barnes, a convicted wiretapper and known
peddler of hoaxes.

(END VIDEO TAPE

MADDOW: Watergate II. Ross Perot. At one point, dropped out of the
presidential race because he believed the CIA or maybe the Republican Party
was going to get into the church at his daughter`s wedding and disrupt it
in a way that would make everybody think she was a lesbian.

Ross Perot actually overall did great in his independent campaign for
president. He got a fifth of the vote nationwide. He moved a lot of
people. He also, however, turned out to be a little nutty. I mean, not a
lot nutty. He turned out to be a little nutty. If you want a lot nutty
that has also happened in presidential politics.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM BROKAW, NBC NEWS ANCHOR: At Washington`s National Press Call today,
Lyndon LaRouche met the press for the first time since his followers scored
upset victories in the Illinois Democratic Primary. LaRouche denied
charges that he`s an anti-Semite and a fascist. He said that his critics
are insane, homosexual and pro-soviet drug dealers.

And this Martini Cannon (ph), he was among the reporters who gather to hear
what else he had to say.

MARTINI CANNON (ph), NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: The Press Club was packed
reflecting a growing interest in LaRouche, who says he comes from a long
political tradition.

LYNDON LAROUCHE, AMERICAN POLITICAL ACTIVIST: If Abraham Lincoln were
alive, he would be standing up here with me today.

CANNON (ph): LaRouche said voter support for his organization comes from
farmers and blacks and blue collar workers.

LAROUCHE: They want me to stick it to Washington, that`s what the Lord has
worked.

CANNON (ph): And that`s exactly what he did today, claiming that
President`s Reagan`s Chief of Staff, Donald Regan was a key figure in
wandering profits made from drug deals.

LAROUCHE: You have with the bankers who do that, like Donald Regan,
presently the Chief of Staff of the White House, put them in jail where
they belonged. Because Donald Regan set up the drug money land and
operate.

CANNON (ph): LaRouche called other government leaders idiotic and berserk,
and claimed to be the target of Assassin.

This is how he responded when we asked his followers are expected to turn
over their personal assets to his organization, the subject of last night`s
report.

LAROUCHE: You took you guys are a bunch of liars. How can I talk with a
drug pusher like you?

CANNON (ph): LaRouche said his policies would revitalize the United States
and warned that some people have paid a high price for not listening to
him.

LAROUCHE: For example President Marcos was opposed to me and he fell as a
result.

CANNON (ph): Martini Cannon, NBC News Washington.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MADDOW: Lydon LaRouche. That was 30 years ago in Washington, 1986.

Lyndon LaRouche ran for president in 1976, 1980, 1984, 1988, 1992, 1996,
2000 and 2004. Lyndon LaRouche ran us a candidate for president, also
basically as a cultist, who preached the secret tyranny of the British,
yes, the British, and he always, always, always preach the impending end of
the world.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAROUCHE: We are now in the next 18 to 24 months. The world is gripped
with the most dangerous most momentous and profound developments in the
past five centuries of human history. At stake, is the question of whether
we shall emerge from the 1990s into a prolonged new dark age, which will
engulf this planet for 100 or 200 years to come, a dark age in which the
population of this planet will sink from over a 5 million at most a few 100
million? A time a dark age, in which a nightmare beyond belief will
control this world.

You have come to the end of a 650 year cycle in European and in world
history. Within a short period of time, it may be weeks, it may be months,
it may be two or three years. I doubt it will be longer than months or a
couple of years.

The entire financial and monetary system of this planet is not merely going
to collapse, it`s going to disintegrate. This entire planetary situation,
civilization will end before the conclusion of this century, probably in a
year or two and that for a period of 50 to 100 to 200 years following, this
whole planet will go through a dark age at which the level of population
will fall to several hundred million people. That nearly everybody`s
family will be wiped out. There will be no grandchildren, no great
grandchildren for most, for virtually anybody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MADDOW: Lyndon LaRouche ran for president eight times. And as far as I
know, he`s not dead yet and the world`s not over yet. So who knows? Maybe
he`ll run again this year too. LaRouche ran eight times, once as an
independent and seven times he ran trying to win the Democratic nomination
for president. He did not get close.

Somebody who did get within shooting distance of a major party nomination
was my uncle Pat, who is not really my uncle, but I have always called him
that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PATRICK BUCHANAN, FORMER ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT FOR COMMUNICATION: The
whole idea we use to have read asking you all about, and, you know, relief
being a narcotic, a saddle destroyer of a human spirit, we got to get off
to this welfare as what he said. And in that sense, if it`s a narcotic,
Barack Obama is a drug dealer of welfare.

Like many of you last month I watched that giant massacre raid ball up at
Madison Square Garden, where 20,000 liberals and radicals came dressed up
as moderates and centrist, in the greatest single exhibition of cross
dressing in American political history.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MADDOW: The crowd goes wild. Pat Buchanan tried to win the Republican
Party`s nomination for president in 1992 and in 1996. In 2002 he ran as an
independent on the reform party ticket on Ross Perot`s real estate.

And Uncle Pat`s politics on race, specifically his call for a physical war,
a culture war fought with force in this country against people he decried
as degenerates, right. Those politics of uncle Pat has meant that the
other presidential aspiring he used to get compared to the most was a guy
named Wallace, George Wallace.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE WALLACE, FORMER GOVERNOR OF ALABAMA: You`ve got some folks out here
who know a lot of four letter words, but there`re two four letter words
they don`t know, W-O-R-K and S-O-A-P. You don`t know those two four letter
words, I can tell you that much.

And you know the biggest bigots in the world? They are the folks that call
other folks bigots, you remember that. They are the biggest bigots in the
world.

You know what? You are a little punk. That`s all you are.

Well, let`s talk about the accountable (ph). You haven`t got any guts. You
got too much hair on your head partner. You got a load on your mind,
that`s right. And cut the flood lights off. And if you hadn`t got the
thing to put on television with those folks, why don`t you just move on
over here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At one point the secret service ordered the lights on
Wallace turned out. They were fearful of an attempt on the candidate`s
life and said the lights blinded them. The shouting didn`t let up and
after more than 30 minutes of it Wallace gave up. He waved to his fans and
then left without finishing his speech.

GEORGE ROMNEY, FORMER GOVERNOR OF MICHIGAN: He plans motorcades through
Chicago and seize around Illinois, but since all officials have refused
them a permit for a speech at their town hall. They said they don`t enough
police man to cope with the crowd, Wallace will attract (ph).

Again, Governor George Ryan, in today, called Wallace a racist who could
destroy this country and they urged dominant Republicans and Democrats to
speak out against him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MADDOW: Michigan Governor George Romney there, of course, Mitt Romney`s
dad from back in the day.

We remember Alabama in Governor George Wallace as a virulent racist, but
George Wallace was a lot of other things besides. Did you ever see the
movie “Dr. Strangelove” or George C. Scott`s place “General “Buck”
Turgidson”, the general who was desperately enthusiastic about using
nuclear bombs to end the world, that character was based on a real general
named general Curtis LeMay. Curtis LeMay is a George Wallace names to be
his running to be his runningmate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CURTIS LEMAY, U.S. COMMANDER IN CHIEF: Thank you very much, governor.

Thank you for your confidence in me. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
I think I`m probably as much surprised to some as you are to find myself in
this position this morning because –

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: LeMay have read a brief acceptance speech and then
answered questions from newsmen.

At one point, he referred to the possible use of nuclear weapons and
reporters were quick to ask Wallace about that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now the general –

(CROSSTALK)

WALLACE: Do you think I agree with using nuclear weapons? General LeMay
hasn`t advocated the use of nuclear weapons, not at all. He discussed
nuclear weapons with you. He`s against the use of nuclear weapons and I am
too. So he mis-announced and he hasn`t said anything about the use of
nuclear weapons.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMAY: If I found it necessary, I would use anything that we could dream
up, anything that we could dream up including nuclear weapons.

(END VIDOE CLIP)

MADDOW: Yes, of course we`d use nuclear weapons. So that was a run for
president. That was one of them. Here`s the story I think.

Today is a historic day not because we haven`t had inconceivable runs for
the American presidency before, not because in the Modern Era we haven`t
had people who were inconceivable as president turn out to have some appeal
to a significant portion of the American electorate while making a run for
president, we`ve had that before. George Wallace won five states, when he
ran as an independent. Ross Perot got a fifth of the vote nationwide when
he ran as an independent. Pat Buchanan won almost a quarter of the
Republican vote for the Republican nomination while he was running against
a sitting Republican president for that nomination. But you know what?
None of them did it. Not only did none of them ever become president, none
of them ever captured the nomination of one of our country`s two major
parties, not even close.

But the man who we can now officially call the Republican Party`s
presumptive nominee this year, he did it. And he did it without breaking
too much of a sweat. It turns out it wasn`t that hard. On the political
calendar took Donald Trump eight days longer to wrap up the Republican
nomination than it took old George Romney`s son to wrap up the nomination
four years ago. Eight extra days is all it took for candidate like Trump
to get it this year as compared to a candidate like Mitt Romney four years
ago.

The Republican Party it turns out is made of sugar and it`s raining and boy
did it fall apart fast. And it means a lot of things about big picture
politics and we`ll talk about a lot of that tonight. But it means things
for individual people`s lives as well far away from electoral politics.

If you are a Muslim, today will always be the day that one of the two
parties in our country nominated somebody for president who thinks you and
your family should be banned from entering this country on the basis of
your religion. Mr. Trump told NBC`s Lester Holt tonight that he will
somehow institute his National Muslim Banned within the first 100 days of
his presidency.

We learned today that neither of the last two Republican presidents,
President Bush or the other President Bush. Neither of them will endorse
Mr. Trump`s campaign, but what difference will it make? The Republican
Party is nominating him, so what does the party stand for, them or him?
You call it.

And no, there`s no third-party candidate coming to the rescue.
Logistically, it is too late. It`s done. Yesterday on the same day he
accused the father of Senator Ted Cruz of being in on the JFK
Assassination. Donald Trump effectively ended that day, that same night
with the Republican`s Party nomination in hand. That was yesterday.

And now, today, as the presumptive nominee, he does start to get treated
differently. I mean, now starts a process that will see him ultimately get
RNC staff and RNC money. He will start to get control of the Republican
Party`s bureaucratic apparatus to use for his own purposes.

Yesterday he accused Ted Cruz`s dad on being in on the JFK Assassination.
Now, about to start getting classified CIA briefings as the Republican
Party`s nominee for president. What has never happened before is that one
of the two parties, in the two-party system of the oldest and most
successful major democracy on earth, the world`s lone superpower. One of
the two parties in that system in our political system somehow became
vulnerable and weak enough to be taken over this time, to lose, to lose to
this guy. That`s new. We never knew this would be foulest. This has
never happened before to our country. This is history. God bless America.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MADDOW: Between September of last year and March of this year, so over
that six-month period, there was a great slimming, a great windowing, a
great poofing, if you will, as one by one, 13 of the initial 17 people
competing for the Republican nomination dropped out of the race. Campaigns
suspended, off the trail, poof, poof, poof, 13 times. Then in March we got
to poof one more, Marco Rubio after he lost his home state of Florida.

Since Senator Rubio, though, on this show, at least, we have got no more
poofing. Now that looks fine. You knew this was coming tonight, but this
is the last time we will ever do this. Are you ready? Are you ready?
Here goes. Senator Ted Cruz of Texas dropped out last night. Thanks for
your time, sir. Poof.

And this morning Ohio Governor John Kasich the last man to be poofed gets
poofed and that leaves alone among the smoking wreckage, he, who will not
be poofed, Donald Trump. You win. The poof machine is retired. All gone
but one. The Republican primary is over. Now I want something new to
poof.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MADDOW: Republican primary is over. The efforts from the right to stop
Donald Trump failed, but that effort largely made the case that Donald
Trump was not conservative enough, that was the main pitch for primary
voters, who after all are supposed to be susceptible to that kind of
argument.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT PELLEY, CBS NEWS CORRESPONDENT: On health care, everybody is going
to be covered on universal health care.

DONALD TRUMP (R), U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I`m going to take care of
everybody.

PELLEY: Who pays for it?

TRUMP: The government is going to pay for it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On gun control.

TRUMP: I hate the concept of guns. I`m not in favor of it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On abortion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On health care, everybody is going to be covered on
universal health care or ban partial (inaudible)

TRUMP: No, I am pro-choice in every respect.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trump even once said.

TRUMP: Eminent domain is an absolute necessity.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it`s a wonderful thing.

TRUMP: Even if they don`t want to sell.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: even if they don`t want to sell.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s nothing conservative about proposing the
largest tax hike in history. There`s nothing conservative about giving
money to the Clintons and there`s nothing conservative about Donald Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MADDOW: Millions of dollars worth of ads like that run all over the
country through the Republican primary at least it`s the later stages of
the Republican primary. Republican primary voters were apparently unfazed.
Mr. Trump continued to win more and more states as his led effectively
crescendoed through the Republican process now that Mr. Trump is their
nominee.

The effect of that past loss, that failed effort against him on his right
is posing an interesting back drop for the new effort against him by
democrats because democrats now will be aiming at the same tip of the same
nose but for Democrats the punch is going to be coming from the left hand
and not the right.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: She ate like a pig. And I looked her right in that fat ugly face
of her.

He once sent her picture of herself with the words, the face of a dog
written on it.

The boob job is terrible, you know, they look like two light bulbs coming
out of the body.

The blood coming out of her wherever.

A person who is flat chested is very hard to be a 10.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don`t think you could get it up for her?

TRUMP: I think I have a hard.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow.

TRUMP: No, I don`t find her attractive.

You dropped to your knees. That`s a pretty picture.

(Off Mic)

… Just like you wouldn`t have your job if you weren`t beautiful.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s like put together a montage (inaudible). What is
that like when she is in bed with you, Donald?

TRUMP: That is a beautiful structure. There`s no question about it.

JOHN BOOZMAN, U.S. SENATOR: I`ll support the candidate regardless of who
we pick, whether Donald Trump is certainly would be a lot better
presidency.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you treat women with respect?

TRUMP: I can`t say that either.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MADDOW: That is a general election ad being run by a Democrat named Kana
Aldridge (ph) against the incumbent Republican Senator in Arkansas.

So Republicans ran against Trump with a lot of different messages, but
mostly by saying he was too liberal. Democrats will not run that way
against Donald Trump. Neither the Democrat nominee for President won`t run
that way nor any other Democrats running anywhere else for any other office
in the country even though all of them will run against Mr. Trump to one
degree or another.

Will it work? There is a way to find out if it will work. If it will work
better for Democrats running against him now than it worked for the
Republicans who tried to run against him in this primary and failed, there
is a way to know and we`ve got that hear on this show next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I am a unifier. We`re going to be a unified Party.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO, (R) FLORIDA: He`s a con artist.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A phony.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump is the know-nothing candidate.

SEN. TED CRUZ, (R) TEXAS: Donald is a bully.

FRM. GOV. MITT ROMNEY, (R) MASSACHUSETTS: This is an individual who mocked
a disabled reporter.

TRUMP: I don`t remember.

CRUZ: A narcissist at a level I don`t think country has ever seen.

JEB BUSH, (R) FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He would not be the
commander-in-chief we need to keep our country safe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This guy is so unfit to be commander-in-chief.

ROMNEY: His domestic policies would lead to recession. His foreign
policies would make America and the world less safe.

TRUMP: I bring people together. Everybody loves me.

BUSH: He needs therapy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MADDOW: Hillary Clinton campaign in a new ad effectively narrated by Mitt
Romney using Republicans to make the case against the newly minted
Republican nominee for president.

Now, the Republican effort to stop Donald Trump during the Republican
primary, it did not work, but what can Democrats learn if anything from
that process about what might work against them – against him by them?
Joining us now is Katie Packer. She`s the founder of Our Principles PAC,
this is an anti-Trump PAC. She`s also the former deputy campaign manager
for the Romney campaign in 2012. Katie, it`s great to have you here.
Thank you.

KATIE PACKER, OUR PRINCIPLES PAC FOUNDER: Thanks for having me Rachel.

MADDOW: How did you feel last night and do you feel any different today?

PACKER: Well, I certainly felt pretty despondent last night, you know,
that we were looking at a situation where there literally were no more
horses to ride in this race. I`m not somebody that was for Ted Cruz or for
John Kasich early on, but I`m a good party person, a Republican party
person and could have wrapped my arms around virtually any of the other
candidates in the race and always have historically.

But Donald Trump as I`ve been saying for months and months is not a
conservative. I don`t really believe he`s even a Republican and I find him
to be a repugnant individual and I just simply can`t do a big kumbaya with
him and I think a lot of people in my Party share that view.

MADDOW: You were a key part of the effort within the Republican Party
among Republican loyalists, again, not partisan to any other campaign but
just against him that he would be too bad for the Republican Party and too
bad for the country to nominate. I know you wish you had more resources
and that you had started earlier, but beyond that, what lessons learned do
you think there are from your effort.

PACKER: Well, I think that it`s really, really important to be able to
develop a real narrative about an individual. And I wish that we – like
you said I wish we could have started earlier, I wish we could have told
more of the story. Where we were able to do that in Iowa and Wisconsin,
those are good examples of places where we were able to tell a complete
story and have the resources, people did take a step back and say I`m not
so sure about this guy.

MADDOW: So you think you did take a chunk out of him in a couple of places
where there was a concerted effort?

PACKER: Sure. And we also sort of kept his head down in some places so
that, you know, people didn`t look at him as a viable alternative, and I
think that that was important. But at the end of the day, you have to have
a candidate that can attract those voters and at the end of the race, you
know, Ted Cruz just wasn`t an appealing enough figure to pull those voters
into his camp, and I think people were sort of tired and were ready for it
to be over, but I don`t think the party has really embraced Donald Trump.
He`s the least popular figure to emerge with the party`s nomination.

Certainly doesn`t have the percentage of support that Mitt Romney or John
McCain or George W. Bush had at the end of the nominating process. And he
goes into the general election with the weakest position of any general
election candidate in polling history.

MADDOW: From what you learned though, and I know that you`re a research-
driven operation. From what you learned about the ways you tried to hit
him, if a generic Democrat came to you for help saying, I know that you`re
a Republican, I also know that you think Donald Trump would be a terribly
dangerous thing for our country, Democrats obviously are going to attack
him for not being a real conservative, that`s not going to work in a
general election context for them, is there another line of attack that you
feel like Democrats would find fruitful.

PACKER: Well just to be clear, I would never help a Democrat.

MADDOW: I know.

PACKER: As much as I`m never Trump, I`m also never Hillary and so I
wouldn`t do that, but I have enough respect for my counterparts on the
Democrat side to note that they know how to do this. What we saw them do
against Mitt Romney, trying to paint him as somebody that was really
disdainful of the working class, the way that they depicted his role in
Bain Capital, I`ve been saying for months, you know, what they do to Donald
Trump and his business records and the way that he has hurt working people
is going to make Bain Capital look like catholic charities.

MADDOW: So you feel confident – people are worried weather Democrats have
the skills to do this.

PACKER: Without a doubt. They`ve got plenty of resources, plenty of skill
and plenty of time to destroy Donald Trump and I fear that`s what`s going
to happen come fall. And our job, you know, we`re not taking or look at
ways that we can sort of build the sandbag operation and protects our down-
ballot candidates so they don`t get swept away in this flood that is
Hillary Clinton.

MADDOW: Protect the party even as you …

PACKER: Absolutely.

MADDOW: You`re going to have a very interesting year. Please keep coming
back and talking to us.

PACKER: Thank you for having Rachel.

MADDOW: Katie packer, former deputy campaign manager for the Romney
campaign. A key part of the Stop Trump and Never Trump movement. And if
you know any of those in your personal life tonight, be kind to them, be
nice to them, this is not a day to tease them, this is a day to make human
contact and be a human being honestly. We`re all humans. We`ll be right
back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MADDOW: Need to clear some memory in the old CPU? Need to clear up some
think space? I humbly present to you a brief list of things that no longer
matter. The Republican primaries in Nebraska and West Virginia next week,
the Oregon and Washington contests after that and then the California
contest and New Jersey and so on down the line, there was a moment when all
of those things might have mattered a great deal on the Republican side,
but that moment has now vanished.

Likewise you can stop spending countless hours thinking about the fight for
delegates at state party conventions in far-flung places. Nobody cares.
It no longer matters on the Republican side. Even the Republican chaos and
bitter infighting that was so amazing in the U.S. Virgin Islands doesn`t
matter anymore. Republican delegate math? Republican delegate math no
longer matters.

The frenzy path to 1,237 which had the great Steve Kornacki at the big
board drawing with his finger, furiously plotting out the ways Donald Trump
might or might not reach the magic number, or the laser-like focus, lots of
reporters dissecting the wishes and wins of Pennsylvania`s individual 54
mysterious unbound delegates, none of it matters. Say goodbye to delegate
math and delegates getting famous.

How about endorsements? At one time they mattered, right? Mike Huckabee
endorsed Donald Trump today. Nobody cares. It no longer matters. How
about convention rules? Remember rule 40-B and all the arcane and obscure
rules we all thought we needed to know for a multi ballot contested
convention, all of those rules, which I took great pains to study and
memories, I`ve been carrying around this sheet of papers which is my
prestige (ph) on the Republican Party nominating roles and I was going to
lay out chronologically over the weeks ahead of and into the convention,
turns out none of them matters anymore.

Goodbye to all of that, goodbye, say hello to this great new world where we
talk about possible vice presidents and battle ground states and previously
ignored down-ballot races, and whether the Trump ticket could cost
Republicans the Senate or even the House. That stuff is what now matters,
that`s what you need to clear space for now.

This also matters. On Monday while Donald Trump was busy wrapping up the
nomination in Indiana, President Obama was giving six T.V. interviews. The
President talked to local stations in Iowa, Arizona, New Hampshire,
Wisconsin, Ohio and Missouri. Six states all very specifically targeted,
six states were vulnerable Senate Republicans are running for reelection
this November, President Obama did all of those local interviewers on one
condition, that those local reporters ask him about Merrick Garland.

The President Supreme Court Nominee who could not get a hearing in the
Senate. Republicans used to praise Merrick Garland because President Obama
picked for the SC Supreme Court, now some of them are terrified that Donald
Trump is doomed in the general election and they will end up with Merrick
Garland, they will end up with whoever Hillary Clinton picks instead and
puts in office with her newly Democratic Senate.

This the morning the folks at red state posted this, “Republicans should
confirm Merrick Garland ASAP.” Now Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell
says Republicans will stick with their plan to block the Garland nomination
no matter what and never mind about Donald Trump and his prospects for the
fall. That means one of two things, either Senate Republicans are not
worried about who Hillary Clinton would choose for the court with her new
Senate Democratic majority to confirm that person or Senate Republicans
genuinely believe that Donald Trump will not only win the White House, but
he will win the White House and all the Senate and pick somebody they like
more than Merrick Garland. Really, hold that thought.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MADDOW: President Obama traveled to Flint, Michigan today, to see
firsthand what it looks like when a state government poisons an entire
American city, but as big a deal as the President`s visit was it was not
actually the most amazing thing that happened in Flint today. We`ve got
some tape from flint today that you have not heard or seen anywhere else.
It is officially jaw dropping and we`ve got that here next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MADDOW: About a thousand people were there, waiting in a high school gym
for hours today, waiting for a visit from the President of the United
States. President Obama went to Flint today to see first hand what Flint
has been going through, and what the people of Flint have been going
through over the last couple of years but they`re still going through every
day now, continues to be hard to wrap their head around.

There`s just nothing else like it in the country, there`s nothing to
compare it to. The whole city`s water was poisoned. A whole city`s people
were poisoned by lead by the state government, and then the state
government wouldn`t listen to them hollering about it for a solid year and
a half.

But as these folks from Flint waited for President Obama today they did
hear from somebody they didn`t expect to hear from. If President Obama`s
visit did nothing else, it did get Michigan`s Governor Rick Snyder to do
something he has never done before. Today, Governor Snyder actually went
to flint and spoke to a crowd of local residents.

Now Governor Snyder has held tele town halls, he has dropped in unannounced
to meet with small groups at food banks. He has gone to people`s kitchens
to drink their water. But when it comes time to talk to the people of
Flint publicly in the open, Governor Snyder sends his lieutenant governor
or somebody else from the administration.

Governor Snyder does not go to those town halls himself. But today, with
the President in town, Rick Snyder felt compelled to show up and watch what
happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(Audience Booing)

GOV. RICK SNYDER, (R) MICHIGAN: Let me begin. Good afternoon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MADDOW: It went on like that for a more minutes, until Governor Snyder
just plowed into this his remarks and then mercifully finished his remarks
up quickly and stepped off stage. When President Obama did arrive, the
President spoke for nearly an hour. Way longer than we were told to
expect. He told the audience, he had their backs. That the water pipes
will be replaced but it will take a long time. In the min time they should
feel safe drinking filtered waters. He said he`s heard all day from the
people he spoke to the fear that Flint`s kids have been irreparably damaged
by lead poisoned water.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, U.S. PRESIDENT: You should be angry but channel that anger,
you should be hurt but don`t sink into despair, and most of all, do not
somehow communicate to our children, here in this city, that they are going
to be saddled with problems with the rest of their lives because they will
not. They will do just fine, just like I did fine with a single mom and a
lot of you did fine growing up in a tough neighborhood. They will make it.
As long as we`re there for them and looking after them and doing the right
thing for them and giving them the resources that they need. Don`t lose
hope.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MADDOW: President Obama today in Flint, Michigan. He headed back to the
airport after the speech back to D.C. But as big a deal as it was for
Flint to have a visit from President Obama, honestly probably the enduring
image of the day will be Rick Snyder, spurned on by the President`s visit
to finally actually go to Flint, perhaps for the first time facing the
people his government poisoned.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SNYDER: Thank you for the opportunity to share a few thoughts with you
today. I look forward to it. And again, I thank you. Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MADDOW: So hey, alongside everything else today, it turns out there`s been
some huge miss tonight out of North Carolina, and this is nothing that was
expected today. But, what it is about is the Discrimination Bill in North
Carolina. As you know, in the weeks since North Carolina Republican
Governor Pat McCrory signed this bill in North Carolina that allows – and
in some cases mandates against LGBT people in that.

North Carolina has been through backlash and boycotts. They`ve had a lot
of criticism. But companies like PayPal have called off plans fro doing
business in North Carolina. Big sports leagues and sports franchises have
threatened to essentially stop competing in the state. There`s been a big
private sector backlash to what Pat McCrory did in North Carolina.

Now in addition to that federal agencies also said they were reviewing the
law, signed by Governor McCrory to see whether it might violate federal
discrimination bands (ph), weather that law could result in North Carolina
losing billions of dollars in federal funding. Well today we got the start
of an answer to that question and it`s a big one. The U.S. Justice
Department has now formally told North Carolina that its new discrimination
law violates the Civil Rights Act, so it`s illegal.

Federal lawyers told Governor McCrory today that the law violates the
federal ban on discriminating against workers on the basis sex, in this
case the rights of transgender, state employees in North Carolina. The
Justice Department tells the state that state officials have until Monday,
as in less than a week from now to confirm that North Carolina will not
enforce this law.

North Carolina has five days to comply or risk being sued by the federal
government, and potentially losing billions in federal funding. Five days.
North Carolina put on the clock today by the U.S. Justice department. Five
days to figure it out. Good luck.



THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
BE UPDATED.
END

Copyright 2016 CQ-Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by
United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed,
transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written
permission of CQ-Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark,
copyright or other notice from copies of the content.>