The Rachel Maddow Show, Transcript 12/7/2015

Richard Engel, Adam Schiff

Date: December 7, 2015
Guest: Adam Schiff

CHRIS HAYES, “ALL IN” HOST: That is “ALL IN” for this evening.

THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW starts right now. Good evening, Rachel.

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST: Thank you for coordinating your tie with
my undershirt this evening, Chris.

HAYES: Nailed it.

MADDOW: Nailed it. I got that memo to you just in time.

HAYES: Perfect.

MADDOW: And thanks to you at home for joining us this hour.

So, the attacks in Paris took place on a Friday, Friday, November
13th. The following Monday, which is three weeks ago today, the leading
candidate for the Republican nomination for president was asked what kind
of public policy strategies he would pursue if he is elected president in
order to try to protect this country from the kind of terrorist attack that
had just unfolded in Paris. That candidate, Donald Trump, said in response
to those questions that he would, quote, “strongly consider shutting down
mosques in the United States.” He said, quote, “You`re going to have to
certainly look at it.”

So, this was the Monday after the Friday Paris terrorist – Friday
Paris terrorist attacks. The leading Republican candidate for president
basically musing aloud, thinking about it, saying shutting down mosques is
one thing that ought to be considered in this country. By the following
day he had stopped ruminating on it and had decided, yes – actually, yes,
we would have to do that. The United States should start shutting down
mosques. We have no choice.


and nobody wants to shut down religious institutions or anything, but, you
know, you understand it. A lot of people understand it. We`re going to
have no choice. There`s absolutely no choice.


MADDOW: This is three weeks ago. Donald Trump, the leading
Republican candidate for president, moving quickly over the space of 24
hours from seriously considering closing down mosques in the United States
to, according to him, there being no choice. We would absolutely have to
shut down mosques in the United States.

Now, since that is not just a radical departure from current American
policy, that is a radical departure from anything ever done or seriously
proposed at a high level in this country, because that is such a radical
proposal, Mr. Trump, after he made those public comments, he was then
repeatedly asked by reporters if he could please clarify exactly what it
was that he was proposing.

And to be frank, you could tell from the tone of a lot of the
questions that he got that reporters were basically trying to sound him
out, trying to figure out if he really understood, if he really knew just
how radical these suggestions were that he was making.


HUNTER WALKER, YAHOO POLITICS: Do you think there`s some kind of
state of emergency here, and do we need warrantless searches of Muslims?

TRUMP: Well, we`re going to have to do things that we never did
before. And some people are going to be upset about it, but I think that
now, everybody is feeling that security is going to rule. And certain
things will be done that we never thought would happen in this country.

HUNTER: And in terms of doing this, to pull off the kind of tracking
we need, do you think we might need to register Muslims in some type of
database or note their religion on their ID?

TRUMP: Well, we`re going to have to look at a lot of things very
closely. We`re going to have to look at the mosques. We`re going to have
to look very, very carefully.


MADDOW: We`re going to have to look at a lot of things.

That was November 19th. Republican presidential frontrunner Donald
Trump saying we need to look very carefully at the prospect of creating a
national registry for Muslims in the United States, or maybe forcing
Muslims to note their religion on their government IDs. We`re going to
have to look closely at the mosques and consider shutting down mosques.

The night that that interview that you just heard there, the night
that a write-up of that interview was published, another reporter, an NBC
reporter named Vaughn Hillyard followed up with Mr. Trump to try to make
sure that that really was what Mr. Trump was proposing, that that really
was what he meant.


VAUGH HILLYARD, NBC NEWS: Should there be a database system that
tracks the Muslims here in this country?

TRUMP: There should be a lot of systems, beyond database. I mean, we
should have a lot of systems.

HILLYARD: But Muslims specifically, how do you actually get them
registered into a database?

TRUMP: It would be just good management. What you have to do is good
management procedures. And we can do that.

It`s nice.

HILLYARD: Do you go to mosques and sign these people up?

TRUMP: Different places. You sign them up at different – but it`s
all about management. Our country has no management.

HILLYARD: Would they have to be legally in this database? Would they
be obligated to sign up?

TRUMP: They have to be – they have to be.


MADDOW: It seems like a radical proposal, right? Even to be musing
about it let alone saying you definitely want it.

Talking about requiring members of a specific religion to register in
some sort of federal government database to track them in this country,
noting your religion on your ID, are you sure, Mr. Trump? Is that
definitely what you mean? Do you understand the significance of what you
are proposing for our country?

Follow-up round 52.


REPORTER: Mr. Trump, why would Muslim databases not be the same thing
as requiring Jews to register in Nazi, Germany? What would be the
difference? Is there a difference between the two? Is there a difference

TRUMP: Who are you with?

REPORTER: I`m with NBC News. Is there a difference between requiring
Muslims to register and Jews in Nazi, Germany?

TRUMP: You tell me. You tell me.

REPORTER: Do you believe –

TRUMP: Why don`t you tell me?

REPORTER: Do you believe there is?

TRUMP: You tell me.

REPORTER: Should Muslims be fearful? Will there be consequences if
they don`t register?


MADDOW: So this all happened three weeks ago, in very quick
progression. Friday night with the Paris terrorist attacks. Monday
morning, he starts musing aloud about shutting down mosques. Tuesday, he
says, yes, we got no choice, we got to shut down mosques.

And Wednesday into Thursday night, all of the discussion about these
other proposals, what he wants to look at, what he would consider, the
databases, registry, the IDs, we need surveillance of Muslims, we need
surveillance of mosques, we need to consider closing mosques. We
definitely need to close mosques. We should look at a national database
for Muslims where they legally have to get registered with the government.
We should look it, making them carry ID cards that list their religion on
their IDs.

So, this all happens in quick succession three weeks ago and
culminates in that very testy, very – at least slightly angry interaction
with that young NBC reporter Vaughn Hillyard. It`s clear that Trump
doesn`t like the way his proposals sound when they`re being voiced back to
him. He doesn`t like the way they`re being received. But he didn`t give
up on any of them after that little whirlwind of attention.

And actually, within a couple days, Mr. Trump had switched gears into
spinning a sort of dystopian fantasy story about modern U.S. history – a
vivid, damning lie about Muslims in this country which seemed cooked up to
justify the kinds of almost unbelievably radical policies that Mr. Trump
was at that point proposing to use against American Muslims.


TRUMP: I want surveillance of these people. I want surveillance if
we have to, and I don`t care.

I want – are you ready for this, folks? Are you ready? Oh, they`re
going to make it such a big deal. They`re going to make it so big. He
said something so politically incorrect.

That`s why we`re going to hell because we`re so politically incorrect.
Such a big deal. Such a big deal.

I want surveillance of certain mosques. OK? If that`s OK. I want

And you know what? We`ve had it before, and we`ll have it again.
Hey, I watched when the World Trade Center came tumbling down. And I
watched in Jersey City, New Jersey, where thousands and thousands of people
were cheering as that building was coming down. Thousands of people were

So something is going on. We`ve got to find out what it is.


MADDOW: We do have to find out what it is.

Republican presidential frontrunner Donald Trump, rolling out that lie
about thousands of American-Muslims supposedly celebrating the Twin Towers
coming down in Jersey City, New Jersey, on 9/11. He rolled out that
blatant lie in front of this animated crowd in Alabama, two weekends ago.
That was the same rally at which Mr. Trump`s supporters beat up a somewhat
disruptive protester who had been shouting “black lives matter”. Mr. Trump
later told the press about the beating that maybe the guy should have been
roughed up.

Donald Trump`s campaign for president has never been sweetness and
light. Remember the big refrain of his announcement speech was the
American dream is dead. The name of his book that just came out is
“Crippled America.” The picture on the cover is on purpose. I mean, he
has been running basically a horror movie campaign from the very beginning.

In the last couple weeks his campaign has taken darker and darker
turns. And now we know where all of those turns were leading, because
today Mr. Trump has done something that appears to be causing even most of
the rest of the Republican Party to choke.

Mr. Trump this evening putting out this statement, which he said the
subject of the statement is preventing Muslim immigration, as you can see
there, the statement in which he calls for a, quote, “total and complete
shutdown of Muslims entering the United States.”

Mr. Trump`s written statement tonight explicitly calling for not
allowing anybody to immigrate to the United States if they are Muslim. But
his campaign later clarified it`s not just that. His campaign later
clarified that he also is proposing banning anybody who is a Muslim from
visiting the United States for any purpose.

So, he wants to ban all Muslims from getting any visa of any kind to
come to the United States for any reason, and that includes wanting to ban
anybody who is a Muslim from visiting the United States even just as a

Asked by “The Hill” newspaper, if U.S. citizens who are Muslim would
also be included in this ban, if you`re a Muslim-American citizen and you
are traveling abroad, will you not be allowed to come home if Donald Trump
is president and gets his way?

Donald Trump`s campaign clarified to “The Hill” newspaper that, yes,
that is the case. Even Muslim-American citizens living or traveling abroad
will not be allowed back into this country, into their own country.

So, this statement was released by the Donald Trump campaign this
afternoon. Just as people were queuing up to see him speak tonight at a
rally in South Carolina. When we got word of this statement, this
preventing Muslim immigration statement and the clarification from the
campaign that it means Muslims visiting the United States or even getting
back into the United States even if they`re from here and they live here
and they`re citizens here, when we got all of that clarification from the
campaign, NBC`s Ali Vitali was on the scene of the rally tonight in South
Carolina and went out and asked Donald Trump supporters, they asked
reporters, what – excuse me, asked those supporters what they thought
about this statement tonight from their candidate.

Watch this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think that that is a very wise decision made
very prudently after due diligence and I`m impressed with the fact that
he`s bold enough to come out and do that.

ALI VITALI, NBC NEWS: If I could ask you about Donald Trump`s
proposal. He wants to ban Muslims from being t country as of a few minutes
ago. Do you think it`s a good idea, bad idea? What are your thoughts?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it`s a good idea. With everything going
on in the world right now – I mean, it sounds harsh, but reality is

VITALI: So, this would make you more likely to support him or less
likely to support him?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: More. Absolutely.

VITALI: I see you nodding a lot. What are your thoughts when you
hear their proposal?

UNDENTIFIED FEMALE: We kind of have the same agreement on it. We
talk about it. We`re definitely the same.

VITALI: Donald Trump`s really evolved on this. He started by saying
we have to look at it and now he`s become more concrete about his position.
What do you think? Is this a good idea?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it`s a good idea. There is too much
going on in the world. We need to protect America first.

VITALI: Do we think it`s a slippery slope to just ban just blanketing
ethic group or one religious group?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t think so because it`s hard to vent them,
obviously. We`ve seen that in the current terrorist attacks and San
Bernardino and in Paris. It – it`s easy to get away with the intel and
all of that. So, you know.

VITALI: Good idea or bad idea?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`d say ship them all back. Seriously.

VITALI: And he`s saying don`t let any more come in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don`t let any more come in. Ship them all back.

VITALI: OK. Are you here as a Trump supporter?


VITALI: If the election were tomorrow you would vote for him.


VITALI: Is there anything that would change that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: None, not at all. Not at all.

VITALI: Does it make you more or less likely to support him, do you

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m still going to support him.

VITALI: It doesn`t seem to sit right with you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would have to think about an while. I have to
absolutely think about that for a while.


MADDOW: Donald Trump supporters waiting in line to see him at his
rally tonight in South Carolina after he released this statement saying
that Muslims should not be allowed to enter the United States for any
purpose, including immigration.

Mr. Trump appears to recognize that he has caused a little bit of a
furor with this statement tonight. So, for all of the other Republican
presidential candidates who have been asked about this have denounced Mr.
Trump`s statement. Some of them didn`t wait to be asked, they volunteered
their denunciations of the statement.

You can tell he thinks he`s got lightning in a bottle here, as
evidenced by his comments tonight onboard the USS Yorktown, which is what
those people were queuing up to see. The Yorktown is a decommissioned
aircraft carrier parked in Mt. Pleasant, South Carolina, and tonight, it
was the site of a Donald Trump rally.


TRUMP: So, we put out a statement today. We watched this, and it`s
impossible to watch this gross incompetence that I watched last night. And
we put out a statement a little while ago. These people are going crazy.


They won`t report it properly. Should I read you the statement?


Donald J. Trump is calling for – listen to this. This is pretty –
pretty heavy stuff. It`s common sense and we have to do it.

Remember the poll numbers, 25 percent, 51 percent. Remember the poll
numbers. OK? So, remember this. So, listen.

Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shut-down of
Muslims entering the United States until our country`s representatives can
figure out what the hell is going on.


We have no choice. We have no choice.

We can`t live like this. It`s going to get worse and worse. You`re
going to have more world Trade Centers. It`s going to get worse and worse,

We can be politically correct, and we can be stupid, but it`s going to
get worse and worse. Until we are able to determine and understand this
problem and the dangerous threat it poses, our country cannot be the victim
of horrendous attacks by people that believe only in jihad.

These are people who believe only in jihad. They don`t want our
system. They don`t want our system and have no sense of reason or respect
for human life. They have no respect for human life.


That`s all right. He sounds like he`s very exhausted. It`s all
right. Yeah. He`s tired. So, they have no respect for human life. So we
have to do something.

Now, we can be weak. We can be ineffective. We can be foolish.

It`s all right. That`s all right. I`m sure he`s a nice person. I`m
sure he can be reasoned with. Be very gentle.

You know, whenever I`m tough, the press says, oh, he was nasty!
Whenever I say, be very gentle, they say, he`s not as strong as we thought
he was. You can`t win.

So I try and cut it down the middle. I try and cut it down. Be very


MADDOW: Donald Trump tonight speaking before a crowd in South
Carolina, being interrupted by one of several protesters who interrupted
his speech there tonight. In this case, he was interrupted while
explaining his proposal that all Muslims should be banned from entering the
United States on any form of visa, as immigrants or even as U.S. citizens
returning home after a trip abroad.

And basically, I think this operates on three different levels. At
face value, on the surface, this is a phenomenally radical proposal from
the leading Republican candidate for president of the United States. And
as such, it tests basically how much enthusiasm and raucous support he can
whip up among his balance for proposing something so radical. It casts the
balance between how much his supporters like this and how much offense he
will cause by proposing an idea that is, if you forgive me, radical to the
point of obscenity.

So, that`s one level at which this operates, banning Muslims from the
United States. Donald Trump is trying that out as a presidential
candidate. That`s what`s happening on the surface.

Just below that level is the political strategy question that I
actually think we have to take seriously here. This has been something
people have batted around all year long. I think it`s time to look
seriously at this question, which is the question of whether or not Mr.
Trump is trying to blow up his presidential campaign.

Has he been spooked by his own apparently impenetrable lead in the
polls? Is he trying to get himself effectively kicked out of the
Republican Party so there is no longer a threat he might actually get
nominated as that party`s nominee for president or God forbid that he might
win the office?

And I don`t mean that in a joking or flippant way. I mean, I think,
with comments like these, obviously the Republican Party has to consider
disowning him in some way. And I think Mr. Trump is smart enough to know
that and expect that.

And I think we really ought to consider the prospect that that is an
outcome that he might be after here. That`s two levels at which this is
operating. It`s the proposal and it`s weather might mean by the proposal,
sort off the text and the sub text.

But then there is the third level, which is the context. And whether
or not this is some theatrical game of stirring the base or trying to stir
the base until you self-destruct, in the big picture we do now have, as a
country, as a mark on the history of our nation, a public proposal by the
leading candidate for president of one of our two major political parties
that people who are Muslims should not be allowed into this country, that
those 19th century signs that said “no Irish, no blacks, no dogs,” those
signs have been replaced with 21st century signs in this country that say
“No Muslims.” That`s now happened. That`s now us.

How does that affect America in the world? Regardless of what this
does to Donald Trump and his cotton socks, regardless of what this does to
Republican politics, what does this do to us? How does this affect us as a
country, as of now?

I have exactly the person who can answer that question here with me
next. Stay with us.


MADDOW: So, the leading Republican candidate for president, Donald
Trump, has tonight proposed banning the entry of Muslims into the United
States. And NBC`s Richard Engel is here live in person – not in the
middle of the night in the Middle East standing in a cold place at 4:00 in
the morning, but right here on set next, just in case you want a truly
expert perspective on what Donald Trump`s new proposal might really do to
us, to America, in the world right now. That`s next.



GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS: Donald, you`ve issued a statement that
there should be a complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States.
Is that your view?

TRUMP: Absolutely. We have problems going on nobody wants to talk
about the problems. I watched the president last night in one of the most
ridiculous speeches I have ever seen. He doesn`t want to address the real
problem. He won`t even mention the term, the term, the name of what`s
going on.

So, when you have a president like that, you are never going to solve
problems. So the answer is yes. There is something wrong, very seriously

We have an obligation to protect our citizens. We`re not doing it
with a president like President Obama. He doesn`t – he doesn`t have a
clue. He doesn`t know what he`s doing. The man doesn`t have a clue.


MADDOW: Republican presidential frontrunner Donald Trump speaking
tonight with my friend Greta Van Susteren on the FOX News Channel.

Joining us is NBC News chief foreign correspondent Richard Engel.

Richard, it`s great to have you here.

happened since I last spoke to you? I was in Paris –

MADDOW: You left the country, we broke it I think.

ENGEL: I came back and things have gone totally mad.

MADDOW: Yes. Well –

ENGEL: The country is in a panic. There is demagoguery. This is
really not the country that I know.

MADDOW: You are somebody who I know because we`re friends. I know
you do not care very much about partisan politics. You`re not a horse race
kind of guy. And I know you kind of box a lot of that stuff out when you
think it`s small ball. But this –

ENGEL: This is not small ball, actually.

MADDOW: This matters.

ENGEL: It would be interesting to say, oh, this is fun. This is more
he`s trying to score a few points.

But the world watches this. The world sees the leading political
candidate from one party making these kind of statements and still doing
well and having these rallies. And those box pops you showed where people
are saying, yes, we need to do them, send them back home – those are going
around the world right now, and people realize this person is leading in
the polls. That must be what Americans think.

I was today with an ambassador from the Middle East, today. And we
were talking exactly about this subject. And he said – well, people in
our country watch what is going on, and it makes us very concerned.

So, from the world perspective, it is absolutely an image, an
impression, a black spot on our collective foreign policy and our
conscience. And it also just feeds into the ISIS narrative.

MADDOW: That`s what I wanted to ask you. The reaction is, this is
what ISIS wants to hear.

ENGEL: Of course it is.

MADDOW: How does that work? Spell it out, why this is good for ISIS.

ENGEL: ISIS says, join the ISIS cause because the world is against
Muslims and we, ISIS, are defending Muslims.

So, here comes Mr. Trump and says, ISIS is right. Join the ISIS team
or join other radicals, or you`re going to be deported, or you`re going to
be kicked out of the country.

I kept saying – thinking to myself while he was making these
statements, what exactly would this look like? I spend a lot of time on

So you come to the airport. Are there people standing there asking
you questions? Are you a Muslim? How exactly do you prove it? Do you
prove a negative?

What do you know about Islam? Tell me what you think about Mohammed.
Does that mean people from Indonesia, people from every corner of the
Muslim world, over a billion people, including U.S. citizens –

MADDOW: The idea that U.S. citizens would have nowhere to come home
to –

ENGEL: I don`t understand where it`s – where it`s even coming from.
I understand there is a fear. I understand there is a concern about ISIS,
but to say that`s it, no member of a particular faith in the country, it`s
irresponsible from a national security point of view.

MADDOW: Let me – OK. To that point, I have a piece of sound that I
want you to hear. This is basically the counter-narrative from the
administration. It`s not the president. It`s the homeland security
secretary speaking tonight. Yes, I just want to get your reaction to this.

ENGEL: I wonder if it was designed specifically to embarrass him
while standing next to a Muslim imam, to make this kind of outlandish

MADDOW: Oh God. Well, let`s listen.


global terrorist threat. It includes terrorist-directed and terrorist-
inspired attacks. It includes plots from overseas and the potential for
the lone wolf actors in the homeland.

This new phase requires a new approach to counter-terrorism and
homeland security. This must include outreach to Muslim communities across
our country.

In responding to this new environment, we must not vilify American
Muslims. We must not throw a net of suspicion over American Muslims and an
entire religion. We must not force American Muslims to run and hide and
retreat to the shadows.

This would be counter to our homeland security efforts, and it is un-


MADDOW: Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson speaking tonight.

In terms of how these things really work on the ground, is he – is he
right about this having a direct effect on our homeland security?

ENGEL: Of course he is. Of course he is. The reason there are 5,000
people from Western Europe who have joined ISIS and left Europe is because
they feel ghettoized. Because they feel that they`re not part of the
community. And the reason we only have 250 or so people from the United
States who have gone to join ISIS is because by and large they feel like
they are getting a fair shake and they have a shot at the American Dream.

If you change that equation, you will change the numbers.

MADDOW: Richard Engel, chief foreign correspondent, NBC News, it`s
really, really good to have you here. I want to put an ankle monitor on
you and keep you –

ENGEL: I`m sorry I am talking about this. This is – this is insane.

MADDOW: It`s insane but it has – I think getting a global
perspective – getting a globalist perspective on what`s happening –

ENGEL: It`s a moment. When you look at the sort of war on terrorism
and the hysteria and what we have been experiencing for the last 15 years
or so, it seems like a seminal moment, and it`s not a good one.

MADDOW: Richard Engel, thank you, my friend. It`s good to see you.

ENGEL: Good to see you.

MADDOW: Always in terrible circumstances.

ENGEL: Maybe next time. It`s early. It`s not so late.

MADDOW: It`s true.

We`ll be right back. Stay with us.



JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think you`re looking at the
next Republican nominee. And here is – and here`s what I promise you.
Should I win this nomination, I will take it to Hillary Clinton and I will
whoop her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jeb Bush there, Hillary Clinton here right now.



MADDOW: It was funny.

I will say, Hillary Clinton laughing in the face of Jeb Bush`s
attempted swaggering. “I will take it to Hillary Clinton, and I will whoop

It was funny. Heaven help whichever Jeb Bush clip writer shoe-horned
that phrase into his lexicon.

Late last week, we reported that the beleaguered Jeb Bush for
president campaign was going to try to shake things up, even though Mr.
Bush had already apparently set about $30 million in ad spending on fire,
$30 million spent already to get him to a grand total of 3 percent in the
last national poll.

Even though they`ve already dumped all of that money and gotten
nothing for it, the Jeb Bush super PAC was poised to spend much more money
on ads. This time they were going to do it differently because they were
going to release not a normal Jeb Bush ad, but a 15-minute long Bush ad.

We heard about this on Friday night, reported it here on the show.
Now the 15-minute-long Jeb Bush ad is out. It`s very, very, very long.
It`s mostly stock footage. It also has some old footage of Jeb Bush a long
time ago, the last time he was in government.

There`s also some inspirational B-roll from his current town halls on
the presidential campaign trail. It goes on and on and on and on. It`s
really long. I mean, it`s half a sit-com. 15 minutes of pure Jeb Bush
attempted reboot.

In addition, on top of that, one billionaire Jeb Bush donor took out
his own full-page Jeb Bush ad in “The Miami Herald” this weekend with plans
to run the same ad in Iowa and Nevada newspapers as well. This big full
page ad does not so much praise Jeb Bush as it compares Donald Trump to
Hitler and Mussolini, literally just spells it out.

So, that should do it. I`m sure that will do it.



responsibility of all Americans, of every faith, to reject discrimination.
It is our responsibility to reject religious tests on who we admit into
this country. It`s our responsibility to reject proposals that Muslim-
Americans should somehow be treated differently.

Because when we travel down that road, we lose. That kind of
divisiveness, that betrayal of our values plays into the hands of groups
like ISIL. Muslim-Americans are our friends and our neighbors, our co-
workers, our sports heroes. And yes, they are our men and women in uniform
who are willing to die in defense of our country. We have to remember


MADDOW: President Obama speaking in his prime-time address to the
nation last night saying it`s every American`s responsibility to reject
discrimination, reject proposals that Muslim-Americans should be treated
differently than anyone else.

What the president was saying there is not materially different from
what he has said on this subject before. It`s not actually materially
different from what the previous president, George W. Bush said on the
subject just days after 9/11 and pretty consistently throughout his

But our current politics being where they are with the Republican
frontrunner for president today, Donald Trump, calling for all Muslims to
be banned from the United States, President Obama`s words from the Oval
Office last night landing with a renewed resonance because of the new
political climate created by the Republican Party now and their
presidential frontrunner.

One other specific policy proposal that the president called for last
night that also seems to be landing with more resonance than it has in the
past was his call that Congress should finally freaking cast a vote on the
fight against ISIS.


OBAMA: If Congress believes as I do that we are at war with ISIL, it
should go ahead and vote to authorize the continued use of military force
against these terrorists. For over a year, I have ordered our military to
take thousands of airstrikes against ISIL targets. I think it`s time for
Congress to vote to demonstrate that the American people are united and
committed to this fight.


MADDOW: This is not the first time President Obama has called for
Congress to vote to authorize the use of force against ISIS. He called for
it in 2014, the day after the midterms. He`s repeatedly called for it
since then. Earlier this year, he even drafted his own authorization for
the use of military force and sent it over to Congress for them to use it
as a draft. Congress never acted on it, and so we still don`t have the
authorization to war against ISIS in Iraq and Syria even though we`re at
war against is in Iraq and Syria and have been for more than a year.

Maybe now though the politics are starting to feel a little different.
After the attacks in Paris, with our closest allies, countries like France
and the U.K. and Germany debating and voting to engage in the effort
against ISIS and upscale the effort against ISIS with leading presidential
candidates from both parties talking about escalating what we`re doing
militarily against ISIS, some of them talking cogently, others talking more
like drunk cartoons.

With all of that happening, might the politics of this issue change
enough that the AUMF might actually get done, that the vote might actually
happen. The president has been asking for this for a long time.

Members of Congress, like for example, Congressman Adam Schiff,
Democratic Senator Tim Kaine and many others have been working for a long
time to try to make this happen. And the same way that President Obama`s
words on Muslims yesterday and the importance of not discriminating against
Muslims, in the same way those words yesterday were not new but they`re now
newly resonant given our current political climate, is it possible that his
calls for Congress to debate and vote on war while also not new, might also
be newly resonant? Might something actually happen? Are the cross-
currents from both parties, the types of concerns being expressed from
people on both sides of the aisle, are they lining up to a point right now
where this could get done?

Joining us now is Congressman Adam Schiff. He`s the ranking member of
the House Intelligence Committee.

Congressman Schiff, thank you for your time tonight. I know you have
lots of places to be tonight. I really appreciate you being here.

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D), CALIFORNIA: You bet. Good to be with you.

MADDOW: You have been working on this for a long time. Are the
politics right now different enough that you have any renewed optimism that
this might really happen?

SCHIFF: They are different. I do have optimism for the first time.

If I can, Rachel, I just want to add my voice in condemnation of what
Mr. Trump said right at the outset. I think it was absurd and un-American.
The un-American part is self-evident, but the absurdity is, if you take him
at what he`s saying that Muslims who are wearing the uniform of the U.S.
armed forces who fight overseas would not be able to come home. That`s
just how patently absurd what he`s proposing is.

But to get your question, yes, I`m for the first time, optimistic. I
am hearing members on both sides of the aisle talking about taking up an
option of use of force. As we get further involved in this conflict with
more special forces now moving to the region, I think there`s a growing
sense of urgency.

And, frankly, we were embarrassed to see the British debating this and
have no debate in our own Congress.

MADDOW: Does the escalation that has happened, the literal
escalation in terms of increased numbers of troops committed in more
permanent and more dangerous ways, does that create more political, I
guess, sense of ownership in the Congress, as more American troops are in
harm`s way and are there for longer terms and in larger numbers?
Essentially, are members of Congress feeling guilty that they haven`t
weighed in?

SCHIFF: Absolutely. And I think people are feeling it increasingly
untenable that we`re sending troops into harm`s way in increasing numbers
and yet we don`t have the courage to take up a resolution ourselves. I
think there is a way to get this done, Rachel, a way to draft it that can
get bipartisan support.

I am kicking around an idea that I have been vetting with people, just
starting to, that would authorize use of force against both al Qaeda and
ISIS and the Taliban, would repeal all the prior existing authorities, and
I think the key feature of it would be that, if the president were to
introduce ground forces, and this president says he`s not going to do that
in a combat role, but if the president were to do that, it would trigger a
privileged motion such that Congress could take up a repeal or a revision
of the existing authority. That might be the way to thread this difficult
needle between two parties.

MADDOW: I want to go back to something that you mentioned – that you
brought up a moment ago in terms of the comments by presidential candidate
Donald Trump tonight. You were denouncing the comments saying that they`re
both absurd and dangerous. We heard remarks tonight unrelated to Mr. Trump
from Secretary of Homeland Security Jeh Johnson saying that if Muslims were
vilified in this country, that hurts America`s national security because
working with Muslim communities is absolutely key to the way to fight this
new evolution of the threat of terrorism.

As the ranking member on the intelligence committee, does that ring
for you? Does that resonate for you? Do you think that`s right?

SCHIFF: It`s absolutely right. And I think Richard Engel really hit
the nail on the head. It`s damaging to us overseas, and it`s very damaging
to our efforts here at home.

Overseas, this plays very directly into the ISIS narrative that
Muslims are not welcome in the West. They`re rejected by the West. They
have no place in the West.

And here at home, if we succeed in alienating the Muslim community,
which we rely upon to work closely with law enforcement when they see
somebody at risk of radicalization, that is deeply terribly

So, in addition to being an anathema to the principles of this
country, the country founded on the free exercise of religion. It`s also
tremendously hurtful to our efforts to protect ourselves from ISIS and to
attack this problem of radicalization.

MADDOW: Congressman Adam Schiff, top Democrat on the House
Intelligence Committee – thank you, sir. I really appreciate your time

SCHIFF: Thanks, Rachel.

MADDOW: Thank you.

All right. Much more ahead including significant new detail on a
thread about the San Bernardino attacks. It`s not getting much attention
in the press, but we have got new information on that tonight.

Stay with us. We`ll be right back.


MADDOW: The FBI and other law enforcement officials held a press
conference in San Bernardino, California, today. The main headline was
they believe Syed Farook and Tashfeen Malik, the shooters in the San
Bernardino massacre last Wednesday morning, the FBI believes they had been
radicalized for, quote, “quite some time.” They also said that the two had
practiced recently at local gun ranges right up until the last few days
before the shooting.

NBC News has learned Syed Farook was at a Riverside, California, gun
range as recently as Sunday and Monday of last week before the Wednesday
attack. He was seen using a bunch of different weapons including, quote,
“an assault rifle that appeared to be similar to the one used in
Wednesday`s attack.”

Today, we also got our first picture of the couple together. It shows
them moving through customs at Chicago`s O`Hare Airport in July 2014. That
is the day that Tashfeen Malik first entered this country.

Obviously, this is an on going investigation into what happened in San
Bernardino. We are still learning new information by the day.

But there was another incident that occurred in San Bernardino last
week right before the shootings. And so far, we`ve been given just a few
details about it. It`s something we first told you about on Friday.

It involves police concerns at a downtown San Bernardino movie
theater, a theater three miles from the scene of the mass shooting.

Last week, local police chief told reporters about something that
happened in this downtown movie theater in San Bernardino. It`s the Regal
Cinemas. He said, shortly after midnight on the Monday before the attack,
a man approached a security guard at that theater and asked questions about
movie times. The security guard told police that the man appeared to be
Middle Eastern. The man left the scene in a silver Volvo.

Shortly thereafter, the same security guard reported seeing another
person taking photographs of the theater from the inside of a Red Dodge
Durango. That second man was also described as Middle Eastern in
appearance. We don`t know anything more than that in detail about those
interactions but the security guard felt unnerved. The security guard
thought the whole situation was odd enough that he called police. He
notified authorities.

San Bernardino police chief has said there`s no evidence to directly
connect this suspicious activity with mass shooting that happened Wednesday
morning after this happened on Monday night. So far, we have zero reason
to think that there is a connection. But it`s still not explained and
today, we have a few new details on this case that police at least thought
was important enough to make public.

The police department now tells us in addition to asking questions
about movie schedule, movie times that first male subject also asked movie
theater employees about, quote, “The staffing of security guards.”

As for the other man who was seen taking photos of the theater from
inside a Dodge Durango, we`re now told the movie theater employee, quote,
“approached the second subject who then drove away before contact was

So, a police report was completed on this incident, this incident that
happened a week ago tonight. We are working to try to get that police

Meanwhile, the department is investigating whether any video exists
that might help shed light on what happened. All of this information has
been forwarded along to the Joint Regional Intelligent Center, that`s a
group that deals with criminal and terrorism related threats.

Again, so far there is zero evidence or information that connects this
weird incident at that movie theater that happened at the Inland Regional
Center two mornings after this.

A local news affiliate did note there was a heavy police presence at
that San Bernardino Regal Cinemas this weekend.

At this point, as investigators continue to look into whether these
two attackers in the San Bernardino massacre might have been connected to
anybody else, at this point, this other incident is just a very curious
incident but it is one that is still unexplained and it happened in San
Bernardino less than 48 hours before the Wednesday morning shootings.

So, we`re keeping an eye on it. We will let you know more as we learn
more, which we are trying actively to do. Watch this space.


MADDOW: In this past week or so of news, we have not had all that
much good news, so here`s some. Tonight in Paris, the band that was
playing when terrorists stormed that Paris theater last month and killed
dozens of people, that band, the Eagles of Death Metal, they played tonight
with a huge concert with U2.

U2`s own Paris show had been canceled because of the attacks. They
then rescheduled this in Paris for tonight. The two bands returned to
Paris and shared the stage for by all accounts was an epic events.

If that gets you through the night, well, all right, it is all right.


MADDOW: One thing to mark on your calendar as having happened today,
one thing to mark in your calendar as going to happen tomorrow. This is
really interesting today. I did in the expect this.

After President Obama`s prime time speech from the Oval Office last
night about ISIS, only the third Oval Office speech he has given in his
presidency, after Hillary Clinton said yesterday that U.S. is not winning
that fight against ISIS – today, President Obama and Hillary Clinton, his
former secretary of state, got together. Today, they met in person for

The White House says it was, quote, “mostly a social occasion”, but I
think this is the first time that President Obama and Secretary Clinton
have met since President Obama`s own Vice President Joe Biden announced
that he would not challenge her for the Democratic nomination for
president. Oh, to be a fly on the wall.

So, President Obama and Secretary Clinton apparently had lunch today.
Now, tomorrow in terms of your calendar, you should know that Bernie
Sanders is going to be here live in studio with me onset for a live
interview on this show.

So I will require your presence, tomorrow same bat time, same bat

That does it for us tonight. We will see you again tomorrow.


Good evening, Lawrence.


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