The Rachel Maddow Show, Transcript 09/29/15

Cecile Richards

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST: Chris Hayes, congratulations on winning
an Emmy last night. It was freaking awesome.

CHRIS HAYES, “ALL IN” HOST: Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

MADDOW: Totally well-deserved. We`re very proud.

HAYES: Thank you.

MADDOW: Thanks, as well, to you at home this hour for sticking with

We`ve got a big show tonight, including an exclusive tonight for “The

The Republican Party has been waging war political war against
Planned Parenthood women`s health centers for years now. But over the last
few months, that war has intensified to the point where basically, the
whole Republican Party is more unified to try to destroy Planned Parenthood
than they are unified on anything else.

All of their anti-Planned Parenthood propaganda and demagoguery and
political hay making of the past few months, just this anti-Planned
Parenthood frenzy in Republican politics over the last few months has all
been building up to what happened today when Republicans in Congress
demanded that the president of Planned Parenthood testify under oath in
Congress. They kept her there for five hours.

Today, this was the big climax of their war on Planned Parenthood.
They dragged Cecile Richards, president of Planned Parenthood, before
Congress today. They kept her there for five hours and it did not go well
for them. I think it went fine for Planned Parenthood, but it went very
badly for the Republicans who had made this appearance today in Congress
into such a huge deal. It was kind of a shock.

And exclusively, we`ve got Cecile Richards, president of Planned
Parenthood, live here tonight for the interview. So I`m very excited to
talk with her about what happened today. You will not see that anywhere

We`ve also got some interesting news from 2016 politics tonight in
terms of whose Republican candidacy is most likely to die, next.

Also with “The Daily Show” starting its new run under its new host
Trevor Noah last night. The political cause that “The Daily Show`s” old
host Jon Stewart is devoting himself to now that he has retired, that
political cause turns out as a huge deadline tomorrow. And we`re going to
talk about whether Congress is going to reach that deadline tonight.

So, there`s lots to come on tonight`s show and I thank you for being

But a few months ago, you may remember that we reported on unexpected
geopolitical flash point in a part of the world we tend to think of as a
pretty peaceful place. It was this spring. There was a lot of
consternation in Sweden because of reports that Russian submarines had been
spotted secretly lurking off the Swedish coast.

Now, Russia did not admit that they were doing that, but the
submarines were spotted. And as that Swedish government tried to decide
what to do in response, one activist group in Sweden decided to take
matters into their own hands. They came up with something that they
thought would either repel the Russian military from the Swedish coast, it
would make them flee Sweden in terror, or if the Russians saw this thing
and they decided to stay – well, it would inherently be on very friendly
terms. Very, very friendly terms.

This is what they did.


ANNOUNCER: The Swedish Peace and Arbitration Society wants to
discuss a more effective way than violence and aggression to solve
conflicts. Instead of angry threats, any visitors will now receive a warm
welcome. The Swedish Peace and Arbitration Society proudly presents, the
singing sailor.



MADDOW: Welcome to Sweden. Gay since 1944.

Faced with the prospect of Russian submarines lurking off their
coast, the Swedes dropped this – this dancing underpants-clad sailor in a
neon light box off the coast at the spot where one Russian submarine had
reportedly been spotted. This dancing gay sailor in his neon light box,
the thing also emits Morse code. It sends out a Morse code message over
and over and over again that says, “This way if you are gay, this way if
you are gay.” So, the idea of dropping this off the coast was if the
Russian military is as terrified of gay people as their prime minister is,
Vladimir Putin, they might see the gay sailor and hear the “this way of you
are gay” Morse code message and then they would turn their submarine around
and flee in terror in which case problem solved.

Alternatively, if they liked the Morse code message and found
themselves attracted to the underpants-clad shirtless dancing gay sailor,
well then they would be welcome to stay on those explicitly friendly terms.
It`s kind of a “make love, not war” underwater version.

That happened this spring. Then it hand again kind of. This time in

One of the weird geopolitical leftovers from World War II is that
when Nazi Germany lost the war, German-owned property in some other
countries got distributed to the people who won the war, got distributed to
the allied powers and in Finland, that included a little bit of land on
these remote islands. It`s not necessarily important I think in a day-to-
day way that some land on the islands is Russian owned. Sort of
interesting local trivia.

But when one Scandinavian comedy hip-hop group learned that there are
little places in this part of Finland that are technically controlled by
Russia, they`re owned and administered by the presidency of Russia, the
comedy hip-hop group decided last month that they would break into that
Russian-owned property and turn it into a gay bar. Specifically, they
turned it into a gay bar that they say they modeled on the blue oyster
which is the super offensive hysterically funny stereotypical gay leather
bar from the “Police Academy” movies. The Blue Oyster.

One of the Scandinavian rappers who pulled off the stunt told the
local press, quote, “We heard that Vladimir Putin had a plot here. So,
it`s Russian land where you cannot propagate homosexuality. Therefore, we
came up and built the Blue Oyster.”

If they were trying to get a rise out of Russia by erecting a pop-up
gay bar on Vladimir Putin`s land, it worked. The Russian council in
Finland told the local news agency, quote, “This is pure hooliganism”, and
the Russians called the cops and the cops started calling it a crime scene.
Local cops told reporters the gay bar set up on Putin`s land in Finland
was, quote, “a bunch of rubbish.”

But the rappers say they are not afraid of getting busted if this is
indeed a crime. And as soon as the police clear away what they did this
pop-up plywood version of the blue oyster, they say they`re going to go
back in and build it more permanently this time. They say they`ll build it
more permanently and huge. They say, quote, “The blue oyster will be the
only thing you can see from the moon part from the Great Wall of China.”
Also, they will never take us alive.

Vladimir Putin especially the experience of having some sort off
dispute, some sort of beef with Vladimir Putin, it seems like it bridges
out the best in people or at least brings out unexpected behavior in

But even knowing that about Vladimir Putin in the world and the weird
things he encourages people or inspires people at least to do, even knowing
that about Vladimir Putin, I`m still not sure anyone expected this at the


MADDOW: That`s the Japanese prime minister meeting with Vladimir
Putin in New York at the U.N. General Assembly.

Why so giddy? What`s going on there? I mean, meetings with Vladimir
Putin can be weird. When President Obama met with Putin yesterday, they
looked like they were going to rip each other`s arms off while they were
shaking hands and fake smiling. I get it – a meeting with Putin can be
weird. He brings out weird stuff in people.

But what`s going on with Shinzo Abe here? Why is he running up to
Vladimir Putin like he`s a pony? He`s so giddy to see him. He`s giggling.
He`s very happy.

It turns out what this might be about is kind of like the random pop-
up gay bar on that island off the coast of Finland. What this might be
about is actually World War II.

Russia, of course, was on the Allied side in World War II. Japan on
the Axis side with fascist Italy and Nazi Germany. And at the very, very
end of World War II in 1945, literally the closing days of the war in 1945,
Russian soldiers laid claim to a bunch of remote islands that had been part
of Japan.

Now, Japan says those islands are still theirs. Even now 70 years
after the end of World War II, Russia says, no, we took them in World War
II. Those islands are Russian. It has been 70 years, but because of the
dispute over those islands, Japan and Russia are technically still at war.
They never formally signed a peace treaty after World War II. And Japan
calls them one thing and Russia calls the islands another thing. But these
are two big powerful countries to have this sort of dispute lingering for
seven decades.

Well, Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe has made it one of the goals
of his administration in Japan that he would like to end World War II. He
would like to get a Japanese peace treaty with Russia between 2012 and
2014, Shinzo Abe and Vladimir Putin held ten personal meetings to talk
about this issue to try to get to a place where World War II can end.

But those meetings stopped once Putin and Russia started their war in
Ukraine and took Crimea and all the rest of it. They earned themselves
international isolation and sanctions from Europe and the United States and
all important western allies including Japan.

Since that cutoff in these discussions, and Japan siding with the
West against Russia, Russia has decided to use all of that time to annoy
Japan as much as possible over the issue of these little islands.

Over the past year, Russia started building new stuff on these
islands that they claim. Vladimir Putin sent his prime minister, Dmitry
Medvedev, to personally visit one of those islands in August. The Russian
military has been flying lots of Russian planes over these islands, butting
right up against Japanese air space, being as provocative as possible. And
it apparently has all been driving Japan absolutely nuts.

Japan really, really wants to settle this issue. And now, in New
York, at the U.N. General Assembly, Japan and Russia meeting again on this
subject for the first time in a year and a half. And President Putin just
agreed that he personally will come to Japan himself sometime soon to talk
about this issue and hopefully settle it once and for all.

And so oh, my God, I`m so happy to see you! This is very exciting.
The Japanese prime minister cannot contain himself, physically cannot
contain himself.

But you would probably be that excited too if after 70 years the end
of World War II finally seed possible for your country and you were going
to be the guy to do it.

The U.N. General Assembly in New York this week feels unusually
inconsequential. Obviously, the U.N. General Assembly is always a big
deal. But this week, there`s a lot of real high profile things going on,
even just from an American perspective. President Obama had this long
personal meeting with Vladimir Putin yesterday, their first meeting in a
very long time because of all the preceding controversy. That meeting
started with the world`s iciest little photo op.

President Obama today had a historic one-on-one meeting with the
leader of Cuba, with Raul Castro, after reopening diplomatic relations
between our two countries this year for the first time in more than half a
century. President Obama today also heading up a multinational meeting of
heads of state to talk about fighting terrorism, specifically fighting
ISIS. The president today saying, quote, “Like terrorists and tyrants
throughout history, ISIS will eventually lose because it has nothing to
offer but suffering and death.”

President Obama also said that the U.S. strategy against ISIS now is
built on the American experience of fighting against a similar but
different group, al Qaeda.


comprehensive strategy that is informed by our success over many years in
crippling the al Qaeda core in the tribal regions of Afghanistan and


MADDOW: President Obama making those remarks this morning at the
U.N., at the same time that news was breaking from Afghanistan today, which
frankly, felt like it sort of intruded on those comments.

For the last 14 years, the United States military has waged war in
Afghanistan against the Taliban. Basically as a way of fighting al Qaeda,
the U.S. war against the Taliban started after 9/11 because of the
Taliban`s role in sheltering al Qaeda and giving them the home base they
needed basically to be able to plan and orchestrate the 9/11 attacks.
Fourteen years into that war, news broke today that the Taliban is back in
charge in one of Afghanistan`s largest cities, in the city of Kunduz, which
is in northern Afghanistan.

And apparently, it didn`t take much of a push for them to get the
city. The reporting so far is that it took only about 400 or 500 Taliban
fighters to overwhelm or at least to scare off several thousand Afghan
security forces and police officers who are supposed to be defending Kunduz
especially after the Taliban had attacked before earlier this year.

But now that the Taliban has taken over in that city and literally
raised their Taliban flag over Kunduz, they`ve reportedly blown up banks
and looted bank vaults all over Kunduz. They reportedly opened the doors
of the city`s largest prison and freed hundreds of prisoners.

After all this just happened in what feels like a lightning bolt,
Afghanistan`s number two official who was here in New York attending the
U.N. General Assembly, he turned around and went home to go help oversee
the response to this crisis.

The Afghan president promised that Kunduz would soon be back under
government control because he said a counteroffensive was under way by
Afghan forces.

Well, reporting over the course of today and into tonight seems to
indicate that Afghan counteroffensive to take backing that city is not
necessarily coming together, at least not yet. There are now reports at
least two U.S. airstrikes, American airstrikes have been launched in
support of whatever that counteroffensive effort is.

But however much our politics in this country have moved on from ever
talking about Afghanistan, the Afghanistan war is still on. And in one
major city in the north of that country, the Taliban at least right now is
back in charge.

And yes, throughout history, sometimes you think wars are over when
they really are not. But with 10,000 American troops still stationed in
Afghanistan, if this war really is back onto the point where the Taliban is
going to be taking and holding significant territory, how much do we expect
American troops to be participating in this fight? If this fight is going
the way it looks today, does that mean that American troops don`t get to
leave? And how does this affect everything else that we`re tied up in with
and without our allies around the world as this remarkable pile-up of world
leaders continues this week in New York City?

Joining us now is Courtney Kube, NBC News national security producer.

Courtney, thanks for staying late at work to be with us tonight. I
really appreciate it.

for having me, Rachel.

MADDOW: So, we`ve heard there were two U.S. airstrikes in support of
some sort of counter Taliban effort in Kunduz. Do you have any sense of
how big a fight is happening for Kunduz? Or is the Taliban basically
holding it? Do we know what the airstrikes were for?

KUBE: Well, we were told late tonight by senior U.S. military
officials there are thousands, we don`t know how many, but thousands of
Afghan security forces that are massing around Kunduz that are about to
take on the Taliban. There are several thousand Taliban there reportedly,
as well.

These airstrikes what we learned was early today there was one that
took out a tank that the Taliban had stolen from the Afghan security forces
and was threatening the coalition that`s there. Later today, there have
been several more airstrikes late tonight, including one that was early
Wednesday morning Afghan time. Those are centered around the airport. Why
the airport? That`s where all the many of the ANSF, Afghan security forces
retreated to when the Taliban started taking Kunduz yesterday on Monday.

In addition to the Afghan security forces, of course, there are some
coalition advisors including American Special Forces and some German

So, that`s where the coalition airstrikes come in. They`re there to
protect. It`s a force protection measure, protect those U.S., protect
those Germans and protect the Afghan security forces that are holed up
there in the airport.

MADDOW: I see. So, I mean, part of what we`ve been trying to figure
out today – there`s obviously just under 10,000 Americans there. The
combat mission ended. The troops are still supposed to be there through
next year, right, through the end of 2016. If the combat mission ended,
how did we end up with airstrikes?

But you`re saying essentially there, they`re doing the airstrikes
under the authority, the legal authority presumably of needing to protect
the Americans who are on the ground and close to the fighting.

KUBE: Exactly. So, the U.S. and the coalition that`s there has a
very narrow mission. I think those are the exact words that President
Obama used when he spoke about this mission, very narrow. That they have
the ability to go – to conduct counterterror operations against al Qaeda
specifically and that they`re there to train, advise and assist the Afghan
security forces.

But they always have the inherent right of self defense. So, here in
this case, in Kunduz, there was a small handful of American special
operation forces who were there on a training mission. They were
threatened by the Taliban, so that`s how the American airstrikes were able
to come in under the mission. They weren`t specifically counterterror.
They weren`t for the train and advice. But they were there to protect the
Americans and the Germans.

MADDOW: Courtney Kube, NBC News national security producer – I just
got more clarity from you on the subject than I`ve had in reading every
written word of print media coverage of the story all day long today.
Thank you so much, Courtney. I appreciate it.

KUBE: Thank you.

MADDOW: I will say, one thing to watch – if this battle of Kunduz
ends up being a very big deal, also if the war in Afghanistan ends up ever
becoming a political issue in our country, while we`ve got 10,000 Americans
serving there, watch to see if we get a partisan line on this issue.

For a long time on the issue of Afghanistan and some other national
security issues, it`s been kind of a blurry partisan line. That said, the
guy most likely to be the next House speaker with John Boehner leaving,
Kevin McCarthy, said this weekend that he wants an American ground war in
Syria. He wants American troops fighting a ground war there.

So, if we`re going to get partisan divides on that, these national
security things are about to become way more political than they have been
in the last few years.

We`ve got a big show tonight. Planned Parenthood President Cecile
Richards here live for an exclusive interview after her huge five-hour day
on Capitol Hill today.

Lots to come. Stay with us.


MADDOW: So the interview tonight is an exclusive with Cecile
Richards, the president of Planned Parenthood. She testified for five
hours today in front of a very hostile Republican-led congressional
committee. She`s here live with us in just a moment.

Stay with us.


MADDOW: Behold, a member of Congress winking at the president of
Planned Parenthood. He does not mean it in a nice welcoming way. It`s
more of a mean wink, which I don`t think we should even call a wink. Just
call it a mink or something. It`s weird, watch.


REP. TREY GOWDY (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: I appreciate the way you like
to frame the issue that you`re the reasonable one and those of us who have
a contrary position are not reasonable.


GOWDY: No, that`s exactly – hat`s exactly the last answer you gave.
That`s exactly what it was, much like your people evolve to a more – to a
more advanced viewpoint.

Much like that comment was also directed to that.

RICHARDS: Those are not the words I said. I said sometimes people
change their opinions.

GOWDY: No, it`s not always what you say. Sometimes it`s just what
you mean.


MADDOW: Republican Congressman Trey Gowdy of South Carolina kind of
mean winking at Cecile Richards, the president of Planned Parenthood. This
is at the mammoth five-hour inquisition of that organization that she
underwent in Congress today.


RICHARDS: Those are not the words I said. I said sometimes people
change their opinions.

GOWDY: No, it`s not always what you say. Sometimes it`s just what
you mean.


MADDOW: The state of Missouri just announced the results of that
state`s official investigation into Planned Parenthood. The attorney
general of that state found despite Republican and anti-abortion activist
allegations against Planned Parenthood all this summer, the attorney
general found there is no evidence that Planned Parenthood in that state
did anything illegal. That`s Missouri. That`s today.

That investigation in Missouri follows a similar investigation of
Planned Parenthood by the state of Pennsylvania, which also found that the
group did nothing wrong.

Planned Parenthood was also investigated by the state of Georgia this
year. Found no wrongdoing.

Planned Parenthood was investigate this had year by the state of
Indiana. Found no wrongdoing.

Planned Parenthood was also investigated this year by Massachusetts.
Found no wrongdoing.

Same goes in South Dakota, found no wrongdoing.

In state after state after state, they keep investigating Planned
Parenthood and then finding out that despite the very lurid allegations
against the group, the group isn`t doing anything wrong.

When they did a similar investigation in the state of Florida, the
state health regulators assigned to do that investigation of Planned
Parenthood also found that Planned Parenthood had not done any of the
horrible things that Republicans and anti-abortion groups accused them of

Once they found that – once they found that Planned Parenthood
hadn`t done any of these horrible things they were accused of, Florida
Governor Rick Scott took that result out of the investigator`s report and
wrote up his own results which were more to his liking.

I mean, in state after state after state they keep finding despite
all the considerable anti-Planned Parenthood activism by Republicans right
now and these screaming allegations from anti-abortion groups this year,
they keep finding over and over and over again in blue states and red
states, all sorts of different investigations, they keep finding Planned
Parenthood isn`t doing anything wrong.

Planned Parenthood really is the health care provider of choice for
millions of American women. The most recent polling on the subject of
Planned Parenthood shows that Americans have a higher opinion of Planned
Parenthood than – well, than any other person or political entity that NBC
or the “Wall Street Journal” could think to poll on.

Look at this from the latest NBC poll that came out this weekend.
Donald Trump was the most disliked, a net negative 33 percent net approval
rating. Republican Party as a hole was the second worse off, net negative
16 percent. Jeb Bush was the third worst off, net negative 15 percent for
him, and then you sort of move up the totem pole in terms of negative
versus positive feelings.

So, above Jeb Bush, there`s Hillary Clinton and above her is the
Black Lives Matter moment, above that is the Democratic Party, above the
Democratic Party is President Obama. Above President Obama, interestingly,
two Republican presidential candidates polling just above President Obama,
Carly Fiorina and Ben Carson both. Above them, Bernie Sanders a whopping
plus 12 percent approval.

And right at the top of the heap above even Bernie Sanders, the most
liked person or political entity in the country – Joe Biden right at the
top, the most beloved, the most liked. Except for the one last thing in
the country viewed even more favorably than old Joe Biden, which is Planned

Planned Parenthood, the single most possibly viewed political person
or political entity in the United States of America, according to the
latest NBC/”Wall Street Journal” poll. That`s not even a new result.
Those are the new results from this weekend. But those were the results
last month, too. Planned Parenthood came at the top of the list in the
same poll last month.

Americans like Planned Parenthood. Millions of women do choose to
use them as their first choice health provider. But Republicans are in
control of Congress. And so, today, one of the three Republican-led
congressional committees investigating Planned Parenthood, yes, there are
three of them, spent more than five hours grilling Planned Parenthood and
winking at the group`s president but not in a nice way.

And now, in addition to those three Republican-led committees that
are already investigating Planned Parenthood, Republicans say they are now
going to appoint a special select committee to permanently investigate
Planned Parenthood, as if Planned Parenthood is the JFK assassination or
9/11, or Benghazi, which the Republicans also made into a special select
committee chaired by the winker.

The fight to ban abortion in this country, the fight to destroy
Planned Parenthood`s women`s health centers is one that usually follows a
set predetermined script. Well, today, Republicans got Planned Parenthood
President Cecile Richards in the witness chair for 4 1/2 straight hours.
And the Republicans really thought they knew how that would go.

Turns out they were wrong. Republicans got smoked in that hearing
room today by Cecile Richards. And Cecile Richards is our guest live
tonight for the interview, next.


MADDOW: So they had been preparing for this for months. They were
very sure of themselves, very sure of themselves. And from the beginning
the chairman was in a real hurry, an obvious hurry. He clearly had a bunch
of stuff to say but he was – he couldn`t pause to wait for the answers.
He was hurrying – he was hurrying toward something that he really wanted
to get to.


RICHARDS: Congressman, let me tell you.

CHAFFETZ: No, no, no, we don`t have the time for a big narrative.

RICHARDS: I`m not going to give you –

CHAFFETZ: Yes or no?

RICHARDS: You asked me a question. We don`t own anything in those
countries. What our global –

CHAFFETZ: OK. We`ll keep going. I have to keep going.

RICHARDS: We`ve been extremely forthcoming with all of our
documents. So –

CHAFFETZ: Let me go to the next one.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will the gentleman yield?

CHAFFETZ: No, I won`t.


MADDOW: No, I won`t. I`m in a hurry here.

The Republican Chairman Jason Chaffetz was in a big hurry to get to
his big finale it turns out. And so, he wouldn`t really waste time on
anything else on the way there because he needed his big finish, his whole
opening statement at this hearing today, the whole conduct of the hearing
which he ran, this whole inquisition, all leading up to his killer gotcha
point, the big wallop, the big finale.

So, everything else had to be cleared off the table so he could get
to the big gotcha moment. And then it just went be horribly wrong.


CHAFFETZ: I`ve gone over time. I need to show this last slide.
This one I don`t understand.

RICHARDS: We provide breast exams to – I can get you the numbers of
how many hundreds of thousands of women receive breast exams at Planned
Parenthood last year has nothing to do with – I don`t – again, you
created this slide. I have no idea what it is.

CHAFFETZ: Well, it`s the reduction over the course of years in pink.
That`s the reduction in the breast exams and the red is the increase in the
abortions. That`s what`s going on in your organization.

RICHARDS: This is a slide that has never been shown to me before.
I`m happy to look at it. And it absolutely does not reflect what`s
happening at Planned Parenthood.

CHAFFETZ: You`re going to deny that if we take those numbers out of
your report –


RICHARDS: I`m going to deny the slide that you`d shown me, that no
one has ever provided this before. We`ve provided you all the information
about everything, all the services that Planned Parenthood provides. It
doesn`t feel like we`re trying to get to the truth here. You just showed
me this. I`m happy to look at it.

CHAFFETZ: I pulled those numbers directly out of your corporate

RICHARDS: Excuse me, my loggers informing me that the source of this
is actually Americans United for Life, which is an anti-abortion group so I
would check your source.

CHAFFETZ: Then we will get to the bottom of the truth of that. We
will now recognize Mr. Cummings for a generous seven-minute.

REP. ELIJAH CUMMINGS (D), MARYLAND: I thought it was eight, Mr.
Chairman. I think it`s eight. Thank you very much.

CHAFFETZ: Go ahead.


MADDOW: Go ahead. Just – I turned off my microphone for a reason.

I pulled those numbers directly out of your corporate report. That
slide that Congressman Jason Chaffetz tried to say he pulled directly from
Planned Parenthood`s corporate reports. It really did come from Americans
United for Life. The congressman lifted it wholesale from the Americans
United for Life anti-abortion Web site.

Unfortunately, for the congressman, he forgot to remove the source
printed on the bottom of the slide, before he said this is a Planned
Parenthood document I`ve lifted from your corporate reports. And he puts
it on display as his gotcha grand finale.

And, on top of that, I don`t mean to be like vengeful nerd here, but
this chart makes no sense. There`s no Y-axis on the chart. How is 268,000
supposed abortions equal to 935,000 supposed cancer screenings? There`s no
y-axis. Anyway, it`s insane.

But that`s kind of how today went. I mean, it`s one thing to imagine
being Republican Chairman Jason Chaffetz and just blowing our big moment
like that and having nothing to do except get the next number wrong and
turn off your own microphone.

But imagine what it was like to be the witness in that situation,
imagine what it was like for Planned Parenthood Federation of American
president Cecile Richards, sitting through not just that, but sitting
through four and a half hours of that, and stuff like that all day long

Joining us now for “The Interview” is Cecile Richards.

Ms. Richards, thanks very much for your time tonight. I know
literally it has been a very long day.

RICHARDS: It`s good to be here, Rachel.

MADDOW: How do you think today went in terms of its consequences for
Planned Parenthood? Republicans and anti-abortion groups thought today
would be the day they finished off Planned Parenthood forever.

RICHARDS: Well, I was really glad the extent there was an
opportunity to get a word in edgewise or answer a question, I was thrilled
to be able to talk about the incredible work that Planned Parenthood does
around the country and the health care we provide to 2.7 million people.
And I do think that point got across.

Obviously, what this whole hearing in the – being generous, calling
it a hearing, I think the whole purpose of this hearing was to convince
themselves that it was OK to deny women the ability to go to the health
care provider of their choice because 2.7 million women and men choose
Planned Parenthood and they were trying to say they wanted to take that
choice away interest them.

MADDOW: There is still the prospect of Republicans trying to deny
all federal funding from going to any Planned Parenthood facilities whether
or not there`s a government shutdown to try to achieve that. I know and
people who pay attention to the facts here know that Planned Parenthood
does not get money to do abortions.

But can you explain to people following this issue whether they`re
for you or against you, can you explain what federal money does end up with
Planned Parenthood and why?

RICHARDS: Sure. And we actually had a long conversation about that
in this hearing. I was surprised at how little some of the members knew
about this. But, of course, because of the Hyde Amendment which is – has
been around for decades and is unjustly punished low income women in this
country for years, there`s – the only abortions paid for by federal funds
for Planned Parenthood or a hospital or any other health care provider are
when the woman has been a victim of rape, incest or her life is endangered.

So, all the federal dollars or the vast majority of the federal
dollars that come to an organization like Planned Parenthood are
reimbursement through Medicaid or Title X for family planning, breast
exams, pap smears, STD testing and treatment. And that is actually what is
at stake. They are trying to tell folks that participate in those federal
programs – we`re going to tell you who you can and can`t go to for
preventive health care.

MADDOW: So, just to be – just to be clear on that and I think
sometimes the Washington language is hard to grasp from a non-Washington
context. What you say are reimbursement, it means if you are a low income
person and your health care – if your health insurance is Medicaid, you
get Medicaid as your insurance because of your income or because of
anything else about you. When you go to Planned Parenthood or any other
provider, the government ends up paying for your service because they`re
your insurer. That`s all we`re talking about here.

RICHARDS: That`s exactly right. And, in fact, for women who are
either participating in Title X, which is not to use another Washington
term but it`s the National Family Planning Program, it actually was signed
into law by Richard Nixon if you might remember. But the National Family
Planning Program and Medicaid, these are programs that where women can come
and get family planning. And Planned Parenthood I believe provides 60
percent of the services – family planning services under these programs.

And all of the – a lot of the conversation was today was, well, we
can just shut down Planned Parenthood and folks will go elsewhere. But
even the CBO has – the Congressional Budget Office – has said just last
week or the week before that 380,000 women would immediately lose access to
health care if in fact the Congress shut down the ability of folks to go to
Planned Parenthood.

MADDOW: In a context here when it`s just you and me, and you are
allowed to answer, how do you explain Planned Parenthood`s role in fetal
tissue research, right? For people who may have heard about these accusing
videos or you may have seen these accusing videos or seen excerpts of them,
and they want to know what it`s all about, how do you explain fetal tissue
research, how it fits into Planned Parenthood, and what`s going on there?

RICHARDS: Well, fetal tissue research has been, there was – in
1988, actually began commissioned under Reagan, a panel that brought
together folks on different sides of the abortion issue to come together
with a guidelines on fetal tissue research.

It`s never been something that Planned Parenthood has been deeply
involved in. Right now, fewer than 1 percent of our health centers allow
women the opportunity to donate fetal tissue for research. And that
research has gone on – I mean, it was part of the cure for polio. There`s
now all kinds of research happening on Alzheimer`s and Parkinson`s and ALS.

Again, this is not a big area of work for Planned Parenthood. We
really facilitate the desire of our patients. Again, right now, in only a
handful of health centers to donate fetal tissue.

And, frankly, that wasn`t even much of the conversation today. Most
of the conversation today was about members telling me in particular that
they didn`t believe that abortion should be legal and that they didn`t
believe Planned Parenthood should be able to serve people primarily because
we provide abortion, which is a legal service in America.

MADDOW: Cecile Richards, president of Planned Parenthood Federation
of America, I imagine that you`re exhausted. Do you mind if I ask you to
stick around for just a moment and I can ask you just a couple more

RICHARDS: Happy to do it.

MADDOW: Very good. We`ll be right back with Cecile Richards.

Stay with us.



RICHARDS: Congressman, let me tell you.

CHAFFETZ: No, no, no, we don`t have the time for a big narrative.

RICHARDS: I`m not going to give you –

CHAFFETZ: Yes or no?

RICHARDS: You asked me a question. We don`t own anything in those
countries. What our global –

CHAFFETZ: OK. We`ll keep going. I have to keep going.

RICHARDS: We`ve been extremely forthcoming with all of our
documents. So –

CHAFFETZ: Let me go to the next one.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will the gentleman yield?

CHAFFETZ: No, I won`t.


MADDOW: When she was talking about being forthcoming about her
documents, about Planned Parenthood documents, the specific forthcoming
nature of the documents there that Jason Chaffetz was asking about were
questions about her salary as president of Planned Parenthood.

Joining us again for “The Interview” is the president of Planned
Parenthood Federation of America, Cecile Richards.

Cecile, thank you for staying with us. I appreciate it.

RICHARDS: Absolutely.

MADDOW: One of the things that Republican members of Congress really
did badger you about today was your salary. And Democrats on the panel
sort of sprung to your defense, said that it was sexist of them to go after
you for that since they never do the same for male CEOs, for example.

Do you share their take on it? Do you think that`s what was going on

RICHARDS: I don`t really know. I mean, I do think some of the
comments were pretty sexist. But actually, I think it was because they
didn`t have anything else to talk about.

And I think that was really my feeling about this hearing, which is
we`re talking about a federal program, Medicaid. We serve 2.7 million
people at Planned Parenthood. We take it very seriously.

Those are folks who come to us voluntarily. They come to us because
they appreciate the health care we provide in many areas of the country.
We may be the only appointment they can get for cancer screenings or birth

But it seemed like they didn`t want to talk about any issues relevant
to the topic at hand. And I – and, frankly, I was a bit dismayed how
little the many members of the committee even knew about women`s health at

MADDOW: And that – I mean, that to me was the most, I mean, I
shouldn`t be surprised but it was the most remarkable thing for me watching
this unfold over the course of the day, that I get the disingenuous nature,
frankly, of the attacks that had been waged against Planned Parenthood. I
know where they`re coming from, I know the tactics of the groups that –
you know, and I`ve seen what they`ve done in other anti-abortion tactics
before they started coming after you in this way. I get it.

I also get though that these things have been politically effective
right now. There`s something coming together in Republican politics and in
the sort of radical edge of the consecutive and anti-abortion movement that
is making this a politically effective issue for Republicans to the extent
that I don`t think they`re going to give up on it no matter how many
allegations are disproven, no matter how many investigations clear you, no
matter how many states look into you and then say, “Actually, they`re doing
nothing wrong.”

In that kind of environment, how do you fight?

RICHARDS: Well, I actually – I do think it may be something that
they find is politically effective within their caucus or within the
Republican primary. But it is absolutely I think a terrible political move
in the broader public.

And I know you showed earlier the poll from last night NBC/”Wall
Street Journal” poll, Planned Parenthood ranked above everyone that`s a
major candidate for president of the United States and everyone else.

Folks love Planned Parenthood, not because of our brand or because of
anything they see on TV. It`s because they come to us for health care.
One in five women in this country has come to Planned Parenthood at some
point in her lifetime. And most people know somebody who`s come to Planned

So, I think, ultimately, this is really a losing battle. I think
what was clear today, Rachel – and you and I have talked about this a lot
– I really think the dividing line here is among a group of people who
believe abortion should not be legal anymore in the United States of
America. And they are going to do everything in their power to make that
come true.

We had the 14th vote today in the House of Representatives on
restricting women`s access to health care, restricting women`s access safe
and legal abortion. There`s a lot of other issues going on in our country
that people are concerned about and in the world. They are obsessed with
ending access to reproductive health care for women in America.

MADDOW: On the other side of the political spectrum or from anywhere
unexpected in the political spectrum, do you also find that in this fight,
especially because it`s so high profile now, it`s the single most unifying
issue among elected Republicans, I`d say – are you finding anywhere from
the other side of the spectrum, from the middle, from some place
surprising, that you`re getting support that you didn`t expect?

RICHARDS: It`s been incredible. I – there was an outpouring
support today. There was pink out day all across America. Hundreds of
events everywhere.

And we have seen I think the members of Congress on the other side of
the aisle today came out forcefully for women`s health, for women`s rights,
spoke eloquently about the services that Planned Parenthood provides, of
their own experiences with Planned Parenthood. So, I actually feel like
this is a galvanizing and certainly has been for our supporters and far
beyond our supporters.

This is a galvanizing issue. People in America do not want to go
back to the 1950s when women had no access to family planning, when
abortion was not legal. And they – I mean, women are making huge progress
in this country and believe me, young people cannot believe that this is
the conversation happening in the U.S. House of Representatives.

MADDOW: Cecile Richards, president of Planned Parenthood Federation
of America – long day today. Thank you for ending it by talking with us.
I really appreciate you being here.

RICHARDS: Me too. Thanks a lot. Thanks for having me.

MADDOW: Stay with us. We have lots more ahead tonight.



SUBTITLE: A few months ago, we fell in love with a wonderful city,
and a very angry bird.

MADDOW: Behold, it actually happened. Look! Our suggested “beware
of angry owl” sign is now the official “beware of angry owl” sign in Bush`s
Pasture Park in Salem, Oregon.

Let this be the legacy of THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW. Simply the coolest
thing to ever happen to this show.

SUBTITLE: But then it got even cooler.

Salem, Oregon, recently celebrated who have helped the city.

Including our own TRMS artist Allegra Flores, who created that sign!

And even cooler than that, Salem has raised enough money selling
copies of the sign to get new swings and a spinner toy for the kids.

Thank you, Allegra, for making us proud.

Thank you, Salem, Oregon, for letting us come visit.

This really has been so much fun.



MADDOW: So, we`re watching news out of Georgia tonight where that
state is scheduled to kill one of their prisoners. This particular
prisoner is a woman. Kelly Gissendaner is the only woman on death row in
Georgia. In March, the state called off an earlier planned execution for
her when the drug for the lethal injection process that night turned out
cloudy. Officials basically said the drug just didn`t look right so they
called it off.

Well, the state later decided that the drugs were cloudy that night,
but they think they weren`t contaminated. So, they set a new execution
date for tonight, 7:00 p.m. Eastern.

Well, in the past hour, the U.S. Supreme Court denied one request by
her lawyers for a last-minute stay of execution. Her defense team has
filed a second Supreme Court appeal. Her lawyers were also turned down
just moments ago by the Georgia Supreme Court.

Barring a last minute reversal, the state of Georgia is nearly clear
to move forward with killing this woman tonight. In this execution, even
the pope, Pope Francis, has interceded and said don`t do it. Don`t do this
one, Georgia.

But the state very clearly wants to go ahead. We`re watching the
appeals process unfold tonight. We`ll keep you posted.


MADDOW: Gutter ball.

Interesting news from the very bottom of the Republican race for
president in 2016 today, we been watching recently as national poll numbers
just circle the drain for Kentucky Senator Rand Paul. On top of that,
increasingly dial polling news for the Kentucky senator, today, we got some
very interesting and unexpected news that one of three super PACs that have
been raising money for his presidential bid has shut down.

The man who runs the pro-Rand Paul super PAC telling
today, quote, “I wasn`t going to raise money to spend on a futile crusade.”
“Whatever motivates his campaign,” quote, “I don`t get it.”

So that`s the news from Rand Paul`s presidential campaign today. His
poll numbers really are in the gutter. One of his PACs has now quit him
saying they don`t even understand why he`s running anymore.

But here`s the really interesting thing, because it turns out that
Senator Rand Paul does have fundraisers scheduled tomorrow and Thursday.
But therefore, his Senate campaign.

Yes, you are invited to lunch or breakfast with Senator Rand Paul and
please bring a several thousand dollar check to help get him re-elected to
the Senate, because nothing says “I`m in this presidential race” like
holding a fundraiser for an entirely different office.

That does it for us tonight. Now, it`s time for “THE LAST WORD WITH

Good evening, Lawrence.


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