The Rachel Maddow Show, Transcript 08/27/15

Marc Morial, Steve Schale

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST: Thanks to you at home for joining us this
hour. The great Tim Russert was the host, the moderator of “Meet the
Press” on NBC from 1991 until he died suddenly and unexpectedly in 2008.

Tim Russert was only 58 years old when he died, which is hard to
believe now, looking back on him and his legacy, because it really feels
like Tim Russert was a journalistic institution. We still feel his loss so

But in the business that I`m in now, there are times when you have to
dig back through the archives. You have to go through the historical
record of how things happened live and in the moment. And sometimes in
those moments, I had one of these moments today, you realize why it is that
Tim Russert even now has a legacy that is larger than life, and that will
stay larger than life for a very long time to come.

Watch this footage. This was Tim Russert on “Meet the Press”,
September 4th, 2005.


TIM RUSSERT, MEET THE PRESS: Mr. Secretary, are you or anyone who
reports to you contemplating resignation?

what we`re contemplating now is the fact that we are very, very much in the
middle of the crisis. What I`m focused on now and what I want my
department, in fact what the president has ordered all of us to be focused
on now is what do we need to do in the next hours, in the next days, in the
next weeks, in the next months to make sure that we are doing everything
possible to give these people succor and to make their lives easier.

We will have time to go back and do an after action report but the
time right now is look at the enormous task ahead of us.

RUSSERT: Many Americans believe now is the time for accountability.
The Republican governor of Massachusetts said we are an embarrassment to
the world. The Republican senator from Louisiana, David Vitter, said that
you deserve a grade of F, flunk.

How would you grade yourself?

CHERTOFF: You know, Tim, again, I`m going to – the process of
grading myself and grading everybody else is one that we will examine over
time. We will in due course look at what we`ve done here and incorporate
it into the planning. But, first, we are going to make sure we are tending
to the crisis at hand.

RUSSERT: So, no heads will roll?

CHERTOFF: Tim, in due course if people want to go and chop heads
off, there will be an opportunity to do it.

RUSSERT: People are stunned by a comment the president of the United
States made on Wednesday, Mr. Secretary. He said, quote, “I don`t think
anyone anticipated the breach of the levees.” How could the president be
so wrong, be so misinformed?

CHERTOFF: Well, I think if you look at what actually happened, I
remember on Tuesday morning, picking up newspapers and I saw headlines,
“New Orleans dodged the bullet.” We had actually pre-staged a tremendous
number of supplies, meals, shelter, water. We had pre-staged even before
the hurricane dozens of coast guard helicopters which are obviously nearby
but not in the area.

So, the difficulty wasn`t lack of supplies. The difficulty was that
when the levee broke, it was very, very hard to get the supplies to the

RUSSERT: Mr. Secretary, you say pre-staged. People were sent to the
convention center. There was no water, no food, no beds, no authorities
there. There was no planning.

CHERTOFF: You know, Tim, at the end of the day, this is the truth.
The only way to avoid a catastrophic problem in that Super Bowl is to have
people leave before the hurricane hits. Those who got out are fine. Those
who stayed in faced one of the most horrible experiences in their life.

RUSSERT: But that`s the point. Those who got out were people with
SUVs and automobiles and airfares who could get out. Those who could not
get out were the poor who rely on public buses to get out.

Your Web site says that your department assumes primary
responsibility for a national disaster. If you knew a hurricane three
storm was coming, why weren`t buses, trains, planes, cruise ships, trucks,
provided on Friday, Saturday, Sunday to evacuate people before the storm?


MADDOW: Tim Russert, September 4th, 2005. So, basically a week into
the rolling American disaster that was Hurricane Katrina a decade ago.

Now, that government official who he put on the spit and roasted
there, that was George W. Bush`s homeland security secretary, Michael
Chertoff. He was responsible for governmental failures around Hurricane
Katrina, not only as homeland security secretary but also specifically as
the head of the government department that included FEMA.

FEMA, which failed in a way it had never failed before in that
administration and in that specific storm.


MATT LAUER, NBC NEWS: Now to new questions about FEMA director
Michael Brown, who`s already under fire for his response to Hurricane
Katrina. As we`ve reported, “Time” magazine is investigating, and they
found that his emergency management background may be overstated.

NBC`s Andrea Mitchell as more on that story.

Andrea, good morning to you.

ANDREA MITCHELL, NBC NEWS: Good morning, Matt.

“Time” magazine investigated and found that there were serious
questions about the investigative background and the management training
that he had. In fact it turns out that he had almost no management
training. This as “The Washington Post” is also reporting today that the
other top FEMA officials also had very little background in anything other
than public relations.

This also comes while there are serious questions about the delayed
response to the hurricane disaster.

Almost two weeks after Katrina hit, a clearer picture about what went
wrong. Much of the public outcry is aimed at FEMA, the federal disaster

GEORGE W. BUSH, THEN-PRESIDENT: Brownie, you`re doing a heck of a

MITCHELL: FEMA`s director, Michael Brown, is a political appointee,
previously commissioner of the International Arabian Horse Association,
“Time” magazine investigated claims on his official White House bio.

found among several was the fact that the White House release listed him as
an assistant city manager for the city of Edmond, Oklahoma, from 1975 to
1978, saying that during this time he had had oversight of emergency
services division for that city and his vital experience to his charge as
FEMA director.

Well, we called the city of Edmond and find out he actually worked
there from 1977 to 1980 and it wasn`t an assistant to the city manager
which is an administrative role, sort of on par with an intern.

MITCHELL: Whenever Brown`s previous experience in management or
emergencies, as the Katrina tragedy unfolded, he seemed unaware.
Television viewers knew about the appalling conditions in the New Orleans
convention center long before he did.

MICHAEL BROWN, THEN-FEMA DIRECTOR: I`ve got to tell you from the
bottom of my heart how sad I feel for those people. The federal government
just learned about those people today.


MADDOW: Michael Brown is the person who President George W. Bush put
in charge of our nation`s Federal Emergency Management Agency. Not just
his performance in that job, but the lack of experience or skills that he
had when he was appointed to that job by the Bush administration, that is,
I think, what led the country to see Hurricane Katrina as not just a
failure, a screw-up, a mistake, but as an indictment. As an indictment of
the very idea that people to denigrate government and who think government
can`t do anything right, it`s an indictment that people who feel that way
shouldn`t ever be put in charge of any important functions of government.

Michael Brown is a big reason why Katrina became a larger indictment
of the Bush administration and not just the parts of the government that
failed specifically in that storm.

After over 1,800 people died and a great American city was beaten
almost to death in that storm and the floods and the botched recovery, this
federal emergency management director who was joking the whole time about
how badly he wanted to quit and how he was trapped and how he needed to be
rescued and didn`t his shirts look great on TV, after all of that, even a
decade down the road, I think most people would like to forget about that
guy, right? About ole heck of a job Michael Brown.

But he is still around. He`s back today at the front page of penning this article, quote, “Stop blaming me for Hurricane
Katrina.” His argument about what went wrong and why nobody should blame
him is, according to him, quote, “The American public needs to learn not to
rely on the government to save them when a crisis hits.” Or at least we
need to learn not to rely on people who don`t believe in government to run
government in any sort of decent fashion, particularly when a crisis hits.

Michael Brown is also back in the background of this campaign video
that the Jeb Bush for president campaign just put out. It`s a campaign
video bragging about Jeb Bush being a good hurricane governor in Florida.
Literally, that is Michael brown, the FEMA guy from Katrina, standing next
to Jeb Bush in this Jeb Bush campaign video.

George W. Bush himself will be back in New Orleans tomorrow for an
event marking a decade since the disaster. But President Obama was there
today. In his remarks today in New Orleans, he made a gentle reference to
Katrina being a manmade disaster. He made a pointed reference to his own
FEMA director and how much he likes and respects him, his own overhaul of
FEMA as an agency, and he talked about some of the ways that New Orleans
has recovered for all the challenges, some of the ways New Orleans has come


that was supposed to never happen here – maybe someplace else, but not
here, not in America. And we came to realize that what started out as a
natural disaster became a manmade disaster – a failure of government to
look out for its own citizens. We`ve revamped FEMA, and I just have to
say, by the way, there`s a man named Craig Fugate who runs FEMA and has
been doing extraordinary work, and his team all across the country, every
time there`s a disaster.


I love me some Craig Fugate. Although, it`s a little disturbing, you
know, he gets excited when there are disasters, because he gets restless if
everything is just quiet. But we under – under his leadership, we`ve
revamped FEMA into a stronger, more efficient agency. In fact, the whole
federal government has gotten smarter at preventing and recovering from

We have data that shows before the storm, the high school graduation
rate was 54 percent. Today, it`s up to 73 percent.


Before the storm, college enrollment was 37 percent. Today, it`s
almost 60 percent.


We still have a long way to go, but that is real progress. New
Orleans is coming back better and stronger.


MADDOW: New Orleans is coming back better and stronger, the
president says. But he also went out of his way to say basically it`s
coming back up evenly, too.

Joining us now is Marc Morial. He`s the former mayor of New Orleans.
He`s now president and CEO of the National Urban League.

New Orleans chapter of the league put out a report called “The State
of Black New Orleans”, which documents the uneven nature of the recovery in
New Orleans since the storm.

Mr. Morial, it`s great to see you. Thanks for being here with us.

Thanks for having me and I really appreciate listening to those clips from
ten years ago.

MADDOW: Yes. I feel like – I`m 42 now, I was 32 then. It`s not
like I was so young then that I can`t remember it, but I was newly shocked,
newly very emotional not just about the toll but about the governmental
failure that happened at that time. I wonder if you feel like that`s being
put in proper perspective right now, ten years out. Obviously, this visit
by the president today is a big deal for New Orleans, but do you feel like
we`ve grasped it and remember it properly?

MORIAL: You know, I think that the film clips that you`ve aired need
to continue to be aired, because only by reminding people what happened,
only about reminding people about the ineptitude and incompetence at every
level of government and the way that people suffered, the way people lost
their lives, the way people were in sweltering heat, high humidity,
stranded at the convention center, stranded at the dome, on the roofs and
attics of their homes, only, I believe, by continuing to remind people will
we recognize and understand how important it is for the nation, for states
and cities to have their emergency response act better together today than
it was ten years ago, but certainly because of the pain and the grief.

It`s also important, Rachel, I think to focus on the progress that`s
been made, the comeback of the region, but also as “The State of Black New
Orleans” report points out, the grave inequities that continue to exist.
The neighborhoods that still need investment to come back, the housing
shortage that remains and all of the work yet left to be done.

MADDOW: When I looked at that report today from the New Orleans
chapter of the Urban League, I felt like the main thrust that I didn`t
fully understand I think before seeing it put in those terms, the main
thesis was that a lot of what explains some of the racial – a lot of what
explains the racial disparity in the recovery, particularly some things
about like political representation and whether or not people are governing
themselves and people are being governed according to a sort of fair
demographic sense, a lot of that is because the poorest neighborhoods and
the blackest neighborhoods are neighborhoods that people were less able to
come back to, less able to move back into New Orleans back into than other
neighborhoods that tended to be whiter.

Is that it, that there was a demographic shift in terms of who could
come back and who couldn`t?

MORIAL: Yes. But let`s in fact add this to it.

Number one, there was a plan confected early on by a number of
business leaders. I call it the Dallas Plan because it was put together in
Dallas, or the Green Dot Plan, that suggested that many of these historic
African-American neighborhoods should not come back, that they should be
turned into lagoons.

There was a public uprising against that plan, but the effect it had
is that it delayed, if you will, the comeback of a whole host of
neighborhoods, both African-American middle class, working class and even
some neighborhoods that were mixed and not necessarily African-American.

Secondly, the state`s primary compensation program, the road home
program, in fact was a program that was not evenly, fairly or equitably
administered. It was the target of a successful civil rights racial
discrimination lawsuit.

So, the point is, is that even after the immediate, if you will,
stumbling and fumbling, there were still decisions made and efforts made
that were designed to slow the recovery in some parts of the city. I think
in the last five years, the pace has been picked up. In the last five
years, a lot of infrastructure improvements have been made. Many people
have worked to come back, but New Orleans still has an affordable housing
crisis, a housing shortage, still has grave inequities in a number of

But that shouldn`t take away from some of the important progress
that`s been made. But let`s understand there were federal, state and local
decisions that were made in the earliest of days that really, really sent a
message to people. Unfortunately, we don`t want you to come back.

MADDOW: Marc Morial, president and CEO of the National Urban League,
also former mayor of New Orleans – thank you for your time tonight, sir.
I know your time is precious at this anniversary. Thanks very much.

MORIAL: Thank you very much. Appreciate it, Rachel. Always.

MADDOW: There`s a lot more ahead tonight. We`ve got some
surprisingly excellent polling news for the Democrats, who are running for
president right now.

Plus, we propose a new rule that all politicians should adhere to.
It`s related to that don`t put things on your head rule, but different.

Stay with us. That`s next.


MADDOW: This is really funny.

There was a rule in politics that presidents and presidential
candidates should not put things on their heads. It`s a well-known rule
for all the obvious reasons. But I have to propose a new rule. No one
knew this was going to be necessary, but I now have to propose a new rule
that presidential candidates and presidents should not sit in oversized
chairs that make them look infantile.

Who knew this would be necessary? But Marco Rubio has made this
necessary. Feast your eyes, America. This is presidential candidate Marco
Rubio yesterday in New Hampshire, just lounging around in an oversized
rocking chair, swinging his feet.

We talked to the very nice owner of this store today in New Hampshire
who told us the chair is not for sale, it`s just a prop, but Marco Rubio
saw it, hopped up there, couldn`t resist. And so, now, the – what do we
call it? The eat-a-man rule has to be invoked in this presidential race
for the first time ever. Wow.



think of this is on the front page, especially if you come from New York.
When you`re on the front page, that means like a lot to me, of “The New
York Times.” That`s a lot.

So, it talks about a – you know the whole thing I had with the
Spanish journalist, if you call him a journalist, I don`t actually. He`s
an advocate for lots of things.

So, they say here, this is a different person. On the front page.
Ricardo Sanchez, known as “El Mandril” on his Spanish drive-time radio show
in Los Angeles has taken to calling Donald J. Trump “El hombre del
peluquin.” In other words, the man of the toupee. This is on the front
page of “the New York Times.” I don`t wear a toupee. It`s my hair, I
swear. Come here, come here, come here.

We`re going to settle this – you know, Barbara Walters did it.
Barbara Walters named me the most whatever it is of the year. Just come on
up here.

They`re going to let you – you have to do an inspection here. This
is getting crazy. This is crazy. Just real quick, we don`t want to mess
it up too much because I do use hairspray.

Come, come. Is it mine? Look.


TRUMP: Say it, please.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I believe it is.

TRUMP: Thank you. And have I ever met you before? No.


TRUMP: But you`re very nice. Thank you. Nice to meet you.


TRUMP: This is one of his regular stunts. He has done this before.
He asks women to touch his head. See? To put to rest what he thinks are
the aesthetics objections to his hairdo.

From Mr. Trump`s perspective, I think he thinks that people talk
about his hair all the time because they believe his hair is fake.

I do not think that is the only aesthetics objection to Mr. Trump`s
hairdo. Whether or not that hair is attached, I don`t think that`s the
root of the concern. But today he did his “touch my hair” stunt again,
that event in Greenville, South Carolina.

There`s a new national poll out today, which polls on the Republican
field for president and Democratic field for president and it polls on
potential general matchups between Republican nominees and Democratic

And overall, this new poll out today is not just good news for
Democrats, it is spectacularly good news for Democrats. Mr. Trump is
obviously rising high on the Republican side of this contest but this
latest poll from Quinnipiac would show that Donald Trump would lose in a
general election to Hillary Clinton. He would also lose in a general
election to Joe Biden. He would also lose in a general election to Bernie

In fact, this new Quinnipiac poll shows Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden
and Bernie Sanders not only beating Donald Trump, but they would also beat
Jeb Bush. Even Bernie would beat Jeb Bush in a general election.

Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden would each beat Marco Rubio in a
general election matchup as well.

So, if you want to organize that matrix sort of to the greatest
possible benefit of the Republican party, in this latest poll at least, the
only way the Republican Party could win the White House in this election is
if they nominate Marco Rubio to be their candidate and the Democrats
nominate Bernie Sanders to be their candidate. And however likely you
think either of those things is to happen in either party, how likely are
both of those things to happen at once, especially now that Marco Rubio is
sitting down in big chairs to swing his tiny feet.

He`s their only hope, and look at him. So it`s pretty good news for

Now, on the Republican side of this new polling, there is a little
weirdness on the Republican side. Not at the top, though. Weirdness is
inherently a relative term. Whether or not something is weird depends on
what`s normal, right? It depends on the context.

And in our lives now as Americans in this century, at the top of the
Republican field, this is normal. This is no longer weird.


TRUMP: So, now – no, no, it gets worse, don`t worry. Trump, who
has dismissed some Mexico immigrants – listen to this – as rapists and
criminals or, simply put, as Hitler. Do you believe – now, the Hitler one
I`ve never heard until this morning when I woke up.

I`m not a fan of Hitler.


MADDOW: Donald Trump, Republican presidential front runner,
clarifying not a fan of Hitler. Take nothing for granted, right?

But Donald Trump almost could not do any better in the Republican
race than he is doing right now. Last month in this same poll, in the
Quinnipiac poll, Donald Trump was also in first place. He was at the top
of the field with 20 percent of the vote. That was the Quinnipiac poll
last month.

Now, this month in the same poll he is still in first place, but he
no longer has 20 percent of the vote. Now he has 28 percent of the vote.
Last month in this poll Scott Walker was second place to Donald Trump.
Now, Scott Walker`s support has dropped by more than half. Scott Walker is
down to 6 percent support and sixth place nationwide.

Jeb Bush in the same poll last month, he was running in third place.
Now as of this poll today, Jeb Bush is still in third place, but now, it`s
a three-way tie for third place and he`s down to single digits.

Dr. Ben Carson, the retired neurosurgeon, who has never run for
office before, he`s doing very well in the latest national Quinnipiac poll.
Ben Carson has been doing increasingly well recently.

Donald Trump is not only doing increasingly well, he`s basically off
the charts at this point. But again, that`s no longer weird. That is the
new normal in Republican politics.

I said there was a little bit of weirdness on the Republican side of
this new polling. There is weirdness there but it`s not at the top.
That`s the new normal. Where it is weird on the Republican side is at CNN.

And I love me some CNN. CNN is a real news organization, most of the
time. When CNN, for example, found out that they got the second Republican
presidential debate this year, they very quickly, very responsibly put out
a long detailed explanation of the criteria they would use for deciding who
would be allowed into that debate.

FOX didn`t do that. FOX is a different kind of organization. But
CNN put all the details out up front right away. So far so good.

But then two things happened that CNN has not accounted for yet. Two
things happened after that. First of all, 17 Republican candidates
declared they would be running for president, 17.

The second thing that happened is that FOX News went first in the
debate game, right? FOX News held the first Republican debate with that
huge 17-candidate field.

And what FOX News decided to do was a real live, real time, no
consent human experiment in which they proved live on TV that it was a
terrible intrusion into the democratic process to split the debate into two
parts, and it was fundamentally just a bad idea is their way of dealing
with the size of the Republican field this year. They only let some of the
candidates into the real debate. They stuck the other candidates into some
insulting lesser format.

FOX News did that already. It was indefensible in small d democratic
terms. This news organization taking over the process like that, warping
the way the candidates had to try to compete.

But it was also just on a basic human ethical level, it was a truly
obnoxious insult to these candidates. It had never been done that way
before in presidential politics in either party, but that is what FOX News
did, with the real debate and the insulting kids table debate.

Well, now CNN is going to do it, too. And because they have decided
that they won`t just let all the candidates debate on equal terms, because
they decided they want to follow FOX lead instead and just pick ten of the
17 candidates for the real debate, CNN has to use their invented CNN
polling calculation system to decide which of the ten candidates they`re
going to take. And it turns out even though this polling calculus was
announced in advance, and it had some detail to it, and it wasn`t the black
box we were dealing with FOX, even still the CNN criteria for just picking
ten of the 17 candidates turns out to have some very bizarre implications.

Because take a look at this latest polling that`s out today. Look
here at this part of the polling that`s out today. Carly Fiorina in this
latest national poll that`s out today, Carly Fiorina is polling one point
behind Scott Walker nationally. She`s ahead of Chris Christie, she`s ahead
of Mike Huckabee, she`s killing Rand Paul.

Carly Fiorina has beaten Rand Paul and Mike Huckabee in two of the
three national polls that have been taken since the first debate. She`s
beaten Chris Christie in all three of the national polls taken since the
first debate. But CNN is planning on putting Chris Christie in the debate
and Mike Huckabee and Rand Paul but not her, even though she is kicking
their butts.

So, honestly, I sort of feel like all of the candidates should be
complaining about this. Right now, it`s Carly Fiorina`s campaign that`s
complaining the loudest because hers is the campaign that`s most obviously
hurt right now by this dumb new system that Republicans have decided to
live by this year.

But the last time they did it in the first debate, it was the Rick
Perry campaign who most legitimately had a claim to being unfairly hurt by
that 10-candidate cutoff. It was almost also Ted Cruz who got almost hurt
by that cutoff last time. Carly Fiorina this time, who knows who it`s
going to be next time.

All the candidates I think ought to be complaining about this. Right
now, Carly Fiorina`s campaign is complaining the loudest. Their beef is
totally understandable. What is less understandable is CNN and why CNN is
doing this.

FOX News made the mistake first. CNN does not have to double down on
that mistake and make it again. CNN, you do not have to do this. Just let
them all debate on equal terms, like we`ve always done before. Let them
all debate on equal terms. Drop the kids table idea.


MADDOW: Hillary Clinton today in Cleveland, Ohio.


the flamboyant front runner. If you look at their policies, most of the
other candidates are just Trump without the pizzazz or the hair. It is a
great reality TV show, isn`t it?

Marco Rubio brags about wanting to deny victims of rape and incest
access to health care, to an abortion. Jeb Bush says Planned Parenthood
shouldn`t get a penny. Your governor right here in Ohio banned state
funding for some rape crisis centers because they sometimes refer women to
other health facilities that do provide abortions.

Extreme views about women, we expect that from some of the terrorist
groups. We expect that from people who don`t want to live in the modern
world. But it`s a little hard to take coming from Republicans who want to
be the president of the United States, yet they espouse out of date and out
of touch policies.

They are dead wrong for 21st century America. We`re going forward,
we`re not going back!


MADDOW: That was Hillary Clinton today in Cleveland, Ohio.
Incidentally, the Republican Party is demanding an apology from Secretary
Clinton on that last point she made about Republicans being extreme on
women`s issues. Clinton campaign already making clear that the Republicans
are not going to get that apology.

She`s also hitting them in Spanish as well, hitting them really well
actually. Stay here, that`s next.


MADDOW: So far, sorry to say, political ads this season have been a
little mediocre. No big standout ones. I think this one is pretty good,


TRUMP: Bringing drugs, they`re bringing crime, they`re rapist.

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Better enforcement so that you
don`t have these anchor babies.

TRUMP: Excuse me, I used the word “anchor baby”.

REPORTER: Do you regret using the term anchor babies yesterday on
the radio?

BUSH: No, I didn`t. I don`t. I don`t regret it.

enforcing the laws in this country.

TRUMP: They`re getting out.


MADDOW: This is the Republican Party, pass it on, English and

That was put out today by Priorities USA. They`re a super PAC that
is supporting Hillary Clinton.

Also coming out swinging today on that same issue was Richard Trumka,
who`s the head of the AFL-CIO. Watch this.


RICHARD TRUMKA, AFL/CIO PRESIDENT: There are no codes or hidden
messages here. These candidates are telling us they believe that some
people are superior and others are inferior, and they intend to govern our
country on that basis. This is the politics of fear and division, and it`s
on an entirely new level.


MADDOW: Richard Trumka, head of the AFL/CIO talking about Republican
candidates for president. The AFL hasn`t made a presidential endorsement
yet but today leaked news that Richard Trumka had lunch at Vice President
Biden`s house today. Presumably, they not only ate lunch, presumably they
were talking about whether or not Vice President Biden is going to run for

On Hillary Clinton`s first day back on the campaign trail after a
short vacation yesterday, in what may or may not have been a refreshing
change for her, this time reporters didn`t only want to ask her about her
e-mail server from her time as secretary of state. Now, her first day back
from vacation, she got precisely one question about the e-mails. All of
the rest of the questions were about Vice President Biden.


CLINTON: I just want him to reach whatever he thinks the right
decision is. And he has to do that. And it has to be a really, really
hard one. And I was at his son`s funeral. I mean I cannot even imagine
the grief and the heartbreak.

I mean, Joe has had more terrible events than most people can even
contemplate, losing his first wife, losing his first daughter, now losing
his son. I think everybody should – he has to do what he has to do, but
I`m just going to continue with my campaign. I`m going to do what I
believe I should be doing and he will have to decide what he should be


MADDOW: Hillary Clinton yesterday responding for the first time to
this new wave of speculation that the vice president might jump into the
Democratic presidential primary against her. For his part, the vice
president himself held an unusual conference call this week yesterday with
members of the DNC. The ostensible topic was the Iran deal, but he also
talked about if he was going to get in.


announce to run, I have to be able to commit to all of you that I would be
able to give it my whole heart and my whole soul, and right now, both are
pretty well banged up and we`re trying to figure out that issue. That`s
the truth of the matter and – but believe me, I`ve given this a lot of
thought and dealing internally in this family about how we do this.


MADDOW: That`s what Vice President Biden has said himself about this
decision, although it`s clear those remarks were not intended to become

People close to the vice president, though, have been telling the
press that the vice president`s decision might not come on this matter
until October – which honestly strikes me as late. I mean, it does mean
the vice president has plenty of time to make up his mind, but it also
means that Hillary Clinton and the other candidates are about to face weeks
and potentially months of reporters asking them about somebody who may or
may not be running against them.

A factor that may or may not ultimately be relevant in the race for
the presidency. This is going to go on until October we`re not going to

Joining us now is Steve Schale. He`s a political strategist and
advisor to the Draft Biden committee.

Mr. Schale, I really appreciate you being here. Thanks for your time


MADDOW: So, obviously, the big question is whether or not the vice
president is going to run. We`ll short circuit that conversation by saying
nobody knows yet. Perhaps an equally pressing question, though, is how
long the question is going to be out there. Secretary Clinton and the
other Democratic candidates really going to have to wait until October
until they know?

SCHALE: Well, Rachel, I mean I`ve been in politics to know that
really nobody wants somebody else to get in the race, so I`m sure that the
other campaigns don`t like this sort of being out there.

But the vice president frankly has earned the right to take his time
on this decision and clearly it`s a big one he has to make. Our job is to
get ready in case he does run. That`s why we`re out recruiting volunteers,
talking to donors, trying to ensure that there`s an infrastructure in place
should the vice president decide to run so when he hits the ground running,
there`s a campaign kind of ready for him.

MADDOW: In that regard, in terms of infrastructure, staff and
volunteers and all the other nuts and bolts things you need to do in order
to run, what do you have in place? What are your plans?

SCHALE: We`ve got – I mean, Draft Biden, we`ve got volunteers
active in 46 states right now, probably be at 50 by the first part of next
week. We`ve got over 250,000 people on our e-mail list.

I can tell you in the 72 hours, I`ve been involved in the operation,
the phone calls I`ve gotten from donors and people looking to get involved,
staff, is pretty remarkable. So, we feel really good about the enthusiasm
and frankly a lot of what we`re trying to do is send a message to the vice
president as he`s making his decision – listen, there are folks out here
that want you to do this and if you do it, we`ll have your back.

MADDOW: As it gets later and later in the process, I think this
question is going to get more and more pressing. If this were very early
on, nobody would ask this. But as it gets later, it starts to feel like a
Draft Biden effort and even just the Draft Biden speculation ends up being
subtractive from the other candidates in terms of the enthusiasm for them,
in terms of what they can line up in terms of fund-raising and commitments.
As it gets later and later and later, it starts to feel like you cost the
other candidates more and more.

If the decision does go very late and the vice president decides not
to run, does the Draft Biden effort then redound to whatever else is the
Democratic nominee? Is it an effort that supports another candidate if
need be?

SCHALE: Well, listen, I think that`s sort of speculative but I
disagree with the larger point. The reality is since the vice president
has made it more public that he was seriously considering, since we ramped
up our efforts, you`ve seen a lot of coverage on the Democratic side of the
primary equation.

Really up until ten days ago or so, the entire conversation was about
Trump and the Republicans. We were pretty much drowned out, you know?

So, I think that Biden`s consideration has actually helped our cause.
More people are talking about our issues, out registering our voters,
activating our supporters. That`s good for us come next November.

MADDOW: Steve Schale, political strategist, advisor to the Draft
Biden committee. It`s actually very helpful, illuminating to hear your
thoughts. I hope you`ll come back and keep talking to us.

SCHALE: Would love to. Thanks for having me on.

MADDOW: Thanks very much.

All right. Much more – that`s an interesting question, you know.
If you get people psyched about conflict on the Democratic side right now,
whether or not it turns into an actual contested primary, does that
excitement redound to whoever the nominee is going to be or is it just for
the prospect of a person who might not run? I don`t know. We`ll see.

Much more ahead tonight, stay with us.


MADDOW: I want you to watch this quick video clip of what we call
DVM. DVM. It stands for dirty van meat.

I want you to stare at this dirty van and its dirty van meat, and
tell me in earnest you do not feel an urge to know more. Just try and tell
me that you don`t yearn to understand this dirty meat. Why it exists?
Where it came from? Who put the meat in the dirty van?

Admit it, you are powerful against the pull of the dirty van meat.
The secrets of DVM will be revealed next here.

Stay with me.


MADDOW: Today in Russia`s being weird again news, I present this
headline – Russian authorities burn food for BMW racing team. The car
racing them from BMW is apparently participating in an event in Moscow this
week, as their welcome to Russia salute, the Russian government decided to
incinerate all of the food that the BMW team brought with them for all of
their personnel for all the time they would be in Russia. Something like a
ton and a half of perfectly good food burned.

And not like they messed up cooking, I mean incinerated. This was
not done because Vladimir has some weird beef with German carmakers nor was
it done because Germans were trying to smuggle some weird beef into Russia.

No, Putin ordered the incineration of food because that`s what Russia
is doing now. This time last year, Russia banned food imports from the
European Union, from the U.S., from Australia, Canada and Norway in protest
against the sanctions those countries had put on Russia over Putin`s war
against Ukraine.

And so, for months now, on Vladimir Putin`s direct orders, Russians
have been bulldozing and burning literally tons of perfectly good Western

Here they are unloading big slabs of meat from the back of a dirty
van. The dirty van meat may look delicious but it`s on the way to a
crematorium to be incinerated.

And they are really making a spectacle of the whole thing. A Russian
official is putting three frozen Hungarian geese on trial while a guy in a
just do it shirt acts as a witness to the trial. He apparently agreed to
ban the terrible Western goods while he stood in his Nike shirt.

He must have agreed, though, because shortly after that tribunal they
brought out a freaking bulldozer to run over those three geese, those three
evil but delicious frozen Hungarian geese.

The Russian government is pursuing legislation that will make it
worse. They will classify Western food as strategically important. Until
now the label applied to weapons, explosives, weapons, poisons and
radioactive materials. But if that starts to include food, that would mean
bringing any foreign food in to Russia could mean seven years in a Russian
prison. Seven years in prison.

This is the kind of story that seems like it can`t really be
possible, the bulldozer and geese, really? But it did happen. This is
real and sometimes there`s news in the world for which you need reassurance
about whether or not it is real.

That`s why we have something called Debunktion Junction, which is


MADDOW: Hoot-hoot!

Debunktion Junction, what`s my function?

You may have seen news about how the Obama administration is taking
concrete steps to try to get Guantanamo closed by the time President Obama
leaves office. The Pentagon has been looking a few different sites that
could conceivably house Guantanamo prisoners if Guantanamo closed,
including sites Kansas and South Carolina.

In response, Republican senators from those two states have now
written an op-ed saying they are way too scared to do that. Senators Pat
Roberts and Tim Scott writing this week that President Obama is risking the
security of the nation by moving the terrorists at Guantanamo, quote, “in
to our backyards.”

Same sentiment expressed by South Carolina`s Republican Governor
Nikki Haley.


GOV. NIKKI HALEY (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: This is a slap in the face to
the people of South Carolina who have sacrificed so much for this country
to turn around and say you are going to put these terrorists in our


MADDOW: Is Nikki Haley right? Is Nikki Haley right and Senator
Scott and Roberts? Is President Obama planning to put terrorists in their
backyards? Is that true or false?


MADDOW: Not unless Nikki Haley and those senators live in a maximum
security military prison.

The Pentagon is not looking to resettle prisoners from Guantanamo in
Kansas and South Carolina like neighborhoods. Senator Robertson, Senator
Scott write this week they will do anything in their power to keep their
state`s churches, schools an playgrounds safe from this terrible plan to
close Guantanamo.

But nobody is planning to move Guantanamo prisoners on to Kansas
playgrounds or churches or schools in South Carolina. They are planning to
transfer them in to high-security military prisons. The naval brig in
Charleston, South Carolina, or the maximum security prison in Leavenworth,
in Kansas or some other prison like that.

Guantanamo prisoners are currently in prison. They are not going to
be resettled in American backyards. They are going to be moved to another
prison. Actually I think it is going to happen this year, at least if this
is the quality of the remaining arguments against it.

That does it for us tonight. We will see you again tomorrow.



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