The Rachel Maddow Show, Transcript 08/12/15

Annie Linskey, Anne Gearan, Roberta Kaplan

ARI MELBER, MSNBC GUEST HOST: It`s all love, Chris.

And thanks all of you at home for staying with us for the next hour.

We begin with big news for two unusual presidential candidates,
Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump. A new poll showing Trump maintaining his
lead among Iowa Republicans, 22 percent there. And that`s a poll conducted
after the GOP debate – meaning Iowa voters who, of course, have more
experience assessing presidential candidates – well, they are still giving
Trump some serious consideration.

And they must be basing that on Trump`s message, because in Iowa, he
doesn`t have much of a campaign to speak of. He spent the last few months
mostly doing phone interviews from New York on TV. Not exactly town halls
in Des Moines. That has been Donald Trump`s strategy here all along. He
has been conducting an air war, making his case basically from afar and
leaving all that retail politicking to others. And it appears to be
working, although it is certainly early.

Another strategy though is waging a ground war. That is, of course,
where Democratic presidential candidate and socialist Senator Bernie
Sanders is excelling. He is in the field, meeting with voters, gathering
with crowds, even in red states. In fact, one of his biggest crowds was
out in Phoenix, Arizona. That`s a state that Mitt Romney won by 9 points.

Many political insiders initially underestimated Bernie. We know
that now. Though, if you watch this show, however, you may recall Rachel
reporting on Bernie`s early crowds in the beginning of the summer.


RACHEL MADDOW, TRMS HOST: Just days after he had his big campaign
rally kickoff in Burlington, Vermont, Bernie Sanders ended up in Iowa
speaking to a packed house in Davenport, Iowa. The organizers had to open
a wall to make room for the crowd. “The New York Times” is describing that
crowd in Davenport as the largest crowd attracted by any candidate from
either party in Iowa all year, Bernie Sanders.

This was the scene in Keen, New Hampshire, on Saturday, where a crowd
of almost a thousand people crammed into a tiny local rec hall to see – to
hear Bernie Sanders speak.

This is the one candidate on the trail right now who can turn out, I
kid you not, 5,000 people with a Facebook post. A huge overflow crowd at
the drop of a hat, thrilling his supporters and bewildering the national
political class.

Bernie Sanders turned out 11,000 people to see him in conservative
Phoenix, Arizona.


MELBER: Now, that is not nothing.

A few big crowds, however, can still be dismissed as flukes,
especially when lined up against the big polling deficits he was facing.
And plenty of experts note huge campaign rallies don`t always translate
into actual votes.

When people have talked about his appeal and momentum, they`re mostly
citing those crowds. Not voters, certainly not polls until now. Iowa and
New Hampshire are crucial contests for this race, the first caucus and the
first primary. Clinton won New Hampshire in 2008 and had been looking good
there. The Bernie momentum had been rooted mostly in the crowds. He`s
drawn less on the number of potential votes and polling that he might have.

New Hampshire polling, for example, look at this, showed Clinton was
beating Sanders, 47-8 in March. In May, he inched up. By last week, he
was within striking distance of Hillary Clinton. Now, today, this self-
proclaimed Democratic socialist who is largely seen as a protest challenge,
that guy – well, that guy is now in first place. He is 7 points ahead of
Hillary Clinton in New Hampshire in this new poll.

Maybe Hillary Clinton will continue to allow this Bernie-mentum to
play out without directly acknowledging it until she hopes it may
eventually die down.

But Bernie`s ground game is so strong, he drew the most special
compliment you can get from Donald Trump. Trump is now comparing his
appeal to Bernie`s.


REPORTER: Would you give up your microphone a protester, like Bernie

microphone. I thought that was disgusting.

You know what? He is getting the biggest crowds and I`m getting the
biggest crowds. We`re the two getting the crowds. But believe me, that`s
not going to happen to Trump.


MELBER: The truth is that Sanders has repeatedly drawn actually far
larger crowds than Donald Trump and he is doing it with an explicit
grassroots ground game. We spoke to the Sanders campaign today about their
resources. They`ve deployed now 39 paid staff members and 11 field offices
in Iowa alone. They`re opening more offices, they tell us, this weekend.

We also asked Trump about his numbers in Iowa. While his campaign
didn`t provide new numbers, the count last month showed ten staffers in
Iowa and no field offices at all. One Iowa co-chair of that campaign does
tell NBC News there is an office somewhere in Des Moines.

Also, “Politico” reporting that Donald Trump will start building a
ground game in the early states, and it`s possible his unconventional
approach could work – some kind of early air raid followed by a late game
to turn buzz into volunteers, precinct captains and votes.

For all of his supposed radicalism, however, Bernie Sanders is using
the more conventional old school approach here – a bottom up, grassroots
field effort that slowly but surely turns excitement into those crowds.
And then grows those crowds into measurable support. And then tries to
turn that support into a lead and maybe, just maybe turn that lead into
voter turnout for those primaries. Maybe the newest story in the 2016 race
is a very, very old one.

Joining us now is Annie Linskey, a national political reporter for
“The Boston Globe”, who`s been on this story.

Good evening to you.


MELBER: What do you think Bernie is doing right and is this more
about what he stands for or what he`s doing on the ground in the field?

LINSKEY: Well, there`s one thing that he is doing right and that`s
authenticity. I mean, it comes down to his appeal is entirely based I
believe, on – I mean, on the thing about him that seems so unusual, which
is that he is a socialist with this hair flapping around. And – but he
comes across to voters and to, you know, even to moderate Democrats as a
very authentic person who has stood for what – who isn`t going on change
his beliefs with the tide.

I think that`s just what America is looking for right now. I mean,
he has – the polling that you mentioned in New Hampshire, you know, I
found quite stunning.


LINSKEY: If you look at it a little more deeply, you know, he –
Sanders is beating Clinton among liberals, no big surprise there, but
Sanders is also beating Clinton among moderate Democrats. Self-described
moderate Democrats are flocking to Sanders. And so, that says that
something more than just his socialist message, but it`s the messenger that
they`re falling in love with.

MELBER: Yes. I mean, we can put that opt screen. You`re talking
about the breakdown as people self-identified moderates in New Hampshire
which is a very active political class there, going for Sanders, so not
just that liberalism. Yet, you also put your finger on the other port
thing about him. Yes, he is authentic but he is authentically socialist,
that`s his term.

The chairman of the Democratic Party was recently asked by our own
Chris Matthews, and struggled to deal with something if he remains a
serious candidate, Bernie Sanders, some Democrats are going to worry about,
which is, can you elect a socialist in the United States of America? Take
a listen.


between a Democrat and a socialist? I used to think there`s a big
difference. What do you think it is?

between –

MATTHEWS: A Democrat like Hillary Clinton and a socialist like
Bernie Sanders.

SCHULTZ: What`s the difference between being a Democrat and being a

MATTHEWS: What`s the difference between being a Democrat and a
socialist? You`re chairman of the Democratic Party, tell me the difference
between you and the socialist.

SCHULTZ: The relevant debate we`ll be having over the course of this
campaign is, what`s the difference between a Democrat and a Republican?

MATTHEWS: I think there`s a huge difference.


MELBER: So, I understand the struggle there. But sometimes the non-
answer is telling. Go ahead.

LINSKEY: Absolutely. I mean, that is the absolute concern that the
Democratic elites have, is that playing out in a general election. To me,
that leaves the door wide open for a man who is sitting in South Carolina
right now on vacation with his family, sitting Vice President Joe Biden. I
mean, if there is anything that is going to tempt him to get into the race,
it`s looking – is seeing that weakness in Hillary Clinton`s polling

MELBER: Is it a weakness for her or is it a real enthusiasm about
someone where some Democrats and some, clearly as we say, moderates and
liberals in New Hampshire, may feel, too, for a chance to express something
exciting about this guy without worrying that he is really going on eclipse
Clinton? Because that poll and many others show, even his supporter don`t
think he`s going to be a nominee, sort of an inverse of the way people feel
about her as a front runner.

LINSKEY: Right. I mean, that is the best number for Hillary
Clinton, her electability number. The people who are support her because
she is electable, and people generally believe that she`s electable.

But to me, that`s like, that – you know, if you vote from a place of
emotion which many people do, you know, that`s a place of logic. It`s sort
of like marrying the person who your parents really want to you marry. I
mean, it`s like, are people really going to make that choice in this day
and age?

And you know, I see what Sanders` success, getting success with him,
where people are like, he is rising in the polls. So, wait, maybe he is –
maybe he could be the nominee. So –

MELBER: So, finally, Annie, before we go, I want to ask you. Is
there something that Hillary Clinton or others in the Democratic Party need
to do to engage with his ideas? Not necessarily attack him. But have that
conversation that the party chair didn`t want to, that there is a way to
advance equality without government control of the economy, without the
type of socialism that he`s associated with, or is that something that she
has to bleed into her policy platform?

LINSKEY: I think she needs to start talking about the issues that he
is talking about, absolutely. You know, I wrote about that today on the
front page of the “Boston Globe.” This sort of file, this lengthy list of
issues that liberals care about, that Hillary Clinton hasn`t even addressed
in any meaningful way.

And I don`t know that she has to, like, come down on their side on
each one to generate some excitement, but I think the fact that she`s just
not even talking about them. And is punting again and again and saying, “I
want to talk about the issues. I will be talking about the issues.”

Meanwhile, they have Bernie Sanders out there, you know, stating a
case. And many of them probably don`t agree with everything he has to say,
but it`s just so wonderful and refreshing to have somebody saying some of
these things.

I think that that`s the lesson the Clinton team really needs to learn
from this.

MELBER: Annie Linskey, national political reporter for the “Boston
Globe” – thanks for joining us tonight.

LINSKEY: Thank you.

MELBER: There`s a lot more ahead, including what Donald Trump had to
say about Planned Parenthood. Something no other major Republican
candidate is saying.

And you don`t want to miss this. We actually have a preview of
Rachel`s exclusive election year special right here that`s going to air
tomorrow on MSNBC.

Please stay with us.


MELBER: We`ll have much more tonight on the race for president on
the Democratic side and the Republican side. But there`s also some news to
report tonight about our nation`s 39th president, Jimmy Carter.

President Carter announced in a statement this evening that he has
been diagnosed with an advanced form of cancer. The former president
underwent elective surgery last week to remove a small mass from his liver.
That surgery was said to be successful time.

But President Carter revealed late today that during that surgery,
his doctors discovered that cancer has now spread to other parts of his

President Carter did not disclose what type of cancer he`s been
diagnosed with. He says he will be providing more details next week. And
he`ll be rearranging his schedule so he can be treated at Emory Hospital in

Jimmy Carter will turn 91 in October. President Obama spoke to him
from his vacation on Martha`s Vineyard tonight saying in a statement that
the former president is, quote, “as resilient as they come.”

Again, the news tonight is that former President Jimmy Carter
diagnosed with an advanced form of cancer. And we will bring you more on
this story as it develops.


MELBER: Trump`s campaign has been nothing if not colorful.


TRUMP: I`m using my own money. I`m not using the lobbyists. I`m
not using donors. I don`t care. I`m really rich. I share in a second.


TRUMP: I think he is highly overrated. I think he is an overrated
person. I look at him. They say as he young Ronald Reagan. I said, I
don`t think he`s a young Ronald Reagan. And besides that, I have far
better hair than he does.

We have losers. We have losers. We have people that don`t have it.

Sadly, the American Dream is dead.

I have an absolute way of defeating ISIS and it would be decisive and
quick and very, very – it would be very beautiful.

MEGYN KELLY, FOX NEWS MODERATOR: You`ve called women you don`t like
fat pigs, dogs, slobs, and disgusting animals. Your Twitter account –

TRUMP: Only Rosie O`Donnell.

I am the most fabulous whiner. I do whine because I want to win.
And I`m not happy –

INTERVIEWER: Are whiners winners?

TRUMP: And I am a whiner. And I`m a whiner. And I keep whining and
whining until I win.


MELBER: So, Donald Trump has made his mark by saying outlandish
things. We know that. The more outlandish often for him, it seems, the

But in an interview last night, Trump had something surprising to say
when it came to this big political debate over Planned Parenthood.


TRUMP: Let`s say there is two planned parenthoods in a way. You
have it as an abortion clinic. Now, that`s actually a fairly small part of
what they do, but it`s a brutal part. And I`m totally against it. And I
wouldn`t do that.

They also, however, service women. We have to help women. A lot of
women are helped, so we have to look at the positives also of Planned

I`m totally against the abortion aspect of Planned Parenthood, but
I`ve had many women, I`ve had many Republican conservative women come up
and say, Planned Parenthood serve as good function other than that one


MELBER: Do you know who took that seriously? Planned Parenthood.

After the interview, the organization released this statement saying,
“Donald Trump seems to realize that banning all abortions, shutting down
the government, and defunding Planned Parenthood are extreme positions that
are way too far outside the mainstream for even him to take.”

Now, that laundry list of non-Trump position isn`t a set of
hypotheticals to make Republicans look bad. It`s a list of things
Republican candidates have called for.


Parenthood when I was governor. You could take dollar for dollar, although
I`m not sure we need a half billion dollars for women`s health issues.

INTERVIEWER: Defunding Planned Parenthood is one thing. What about
this idea which had been trotted out there, shut down the federal

came to that, I would. I hope it doesn`t come to that. If we are not
prepared to stand up and fight over this, what are we prepared to stand up
and fight over?

Planned Parenthood. And it is really striking that the Democrats are
willing to embrace your and my taxpayer funds going to fund this
organization, an ongoing criminal enterprise.

advocated is that we pass a law in this country that says all human life at
every stage of its development is worthy of protection.

KELLY: Would you really let a mother die rather than have an
abortion? And with 83 percent of the American public in favor of a life
exception, are you too out of the mainstream on this issue to win the
general election?

life. I`ve always been pro-life. Unlike Hillary Clinton who has a radical
position in terms of support for Planned Parenthood, I defunded Planned
Parenthood more than four years ago.


MELBER: So, that`s what`s going on in the field. And the talk about
cutting down Planned Parenthood is often referred to as some kind of
abortion politics.

That`s not really accurate, while the organization does provide some
abortions, the federal government already bars it from using federal funds
for any abortions. That was further solidified with a compromise struck
under the Hyde Amendment named after pro-life Illinois Congressman Henry

As Planned Parenthood explains, this is on their Web site right now
for anyone who wants to see. Quote, “Planned Parenthood participates in a
federal funneling program called Title X. This program doesn`t pay for
abortion care.”

Planned Parenthood is already legally barred from using its federal
funding for those abortion services. So, Republicans claim they want to
defund group over abortion, which is as a practical issue sort of moot.
And yet, at the same time, all this misleading politicking is having a
substantive impact on women in some states.

Three states have recently said they will block hundreds of dollars
in Medicaid and state funding for Planned Parenthood even though they`ve
warned that may actually be in conflict with federal law, according to a
report there in “The Wall Street Journal”.

So, on a substantive statewide level, there is a very real crusade
against Planned Parenthood. On a policy level, the issue isn`t going
anywhere, and it`s going to be brought up time and time again even if
Donald drops out of the race.

CLINTON: The Republicans are putting forth some very radical and
offensive positions when it comes to women`s lives, women`s reproductive
health, women`s employment, women`s opportunities.

So, I think – we`ll let the Republicans, you know, go back and forth
with each other, but I want to point out, there`s really not that much
difference in the policy that they are proposing when it comes to American

MELBER: Trump and the rest of the GOP field may be weighing in on
Planned Parenthood now. But so is the Democratic candidate who would like
to face them and who has been putting women`s health issues front and
center for a very long time.

Joining us now on these evolving politics is Anne Gearan, political
reporter for “The Washington Post.”

Good evening to you.

ANNE GEARAN, THE WASHINGTON POST: Hi. Nice to talk to you.

MELBER: Does Donald Trump make a difference here for the way
Republicans come down?

GEARAN: It`s really interesting. I mean, what Trump said today, or
last night, rather, it is actually right. He is not very detailed in many
of his policy proposals and many of the things he talks about. But he`s
right there. Abortion is only part of what Planned Parenthood does, and
most Republicans support the idea that there is an organization, a place
where women can go, low income women, young people who need health
services, and that that is a separate thing than an abortion clinic.

And the position he articulated is actually pretty mainstream
moderate Republican orthodoxy, that you can oppose abortion on many or most
counts. But still want exceptions for rape, incest, life of the mother, or
not go so far as to say that Planned Parenthood shouldn`t exist or should
be denied all federal funds.

It was interesting to hear him articulate that and he is really
staking a moderate Republican position there which means he is not catering
to the very conservative parts of the Republican Party that are supporting
him now. So, that`s interesting.

MELBER: Right. And that would suggest that somehow his style or
this, whatever momentary buzz he has in the polls, gives him a kind of an
ability to avoid pandering on certain issues, although he`s certainly
pandering in sorts of other ways. Can you help us understand, though, why
the abortion politics have migrated over to focusing on one organization?

I mean, in the old days of looking at the Supreme Court and Roe v.
Wade have given way to this sort of obsession with folks like we just
showed. Yes, defund the whole government over this.

GEARAN: Well, I mean, certainly the journal cover videos from last
month, opened the door to this. Whatever you believe those videos show, it
is not good news for Planned Parenthood. And it is difficult to defend the
organization when you have the disturbing idea that they could be
participating in any way, shape or form in the bartering or trade or sale
of parts of an aborted fetus.

I mean, that`s a difficult thing to talk about. It`s a difficult
thing for defenders and supporters of Planned Parenthood and the services
they provide to separate out and try to describe what`s actually happening
here. And it allowed the – as I say, it opened the door to this part of
the debate.

And certainly, it allowed the Marco Rubios and the Scott Walkers in
that debate – in the Republican debate last week to have something to
point to.

MELBER: And what does Hillary Clinton get to do with all this?

GEARAN: Well, she said on the specifics of the Planned Parenthood
video, she has called that aspect disturbing. But she moved very quickly
to try to capitalize on what Rubio and Walker said during the debate, and
to say really? I mean, a very small percentage of Republicans think that
there should, that you shouldn`t have exceptions for rape, incest and life
of the mother. And, you know, what kind of, where is the Republican Party
going here, was her point.

And certainly, the Democrats, Hillary Clinton, leading the PAC, are
trying to show, hey, we`re back to a Republican war on women. Whether or
not that`s really the case, they didn`t have a lot of fresh evidence to
point to in this cycle. And this entire episode has given them that

MELBER: Anne Gearan, political reporter for “The Washington Post” –
thank you for joining us.

GEARAN: Thank you.

MELBER: And still ahead tonight, a programming note for tomorrow
that you will not want to miss – no way, no how.

Plus, the early front-runner for a campaign ad of the year, maybe the
decade, actually maybe ever. We`re going to see how it stacks up to our
most reason favorites. Stay with us for that.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, the first
matter that I would like to report to the committee on this morning is the
progress of the investigation. We have received almost 100 percent of the
materials which the Senate Select Committee has collected and analyzed in
connection with its investigation. I would estimate that there are, we`ve
received over 100,000 pages of printed material.


MELBER: Did you spot her there?

In 1974, a recent law school graduate named Hillary Rodham was one of
the attorneys working on Congress`s impeachment investigation of President
Nixon. This was before she was the first lady of anything. She was a
young, ambitious staffer.

This footage is pretty incredible to see and it features some truly,
well, let`s just say, Madmen-esque behavior on the parts of members of
Congress. It is remarkable.

And tomorrow night here on THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW, there is more from
where that came from. For months, Rachel and her producers here have been
doing a really deep dive into the NBC archives to find the tape and the
interviews and the best stories about the presidential candidates that
you`ve probably never seen before. It is called “The Tale of the Tape”.

And Rachel will be right here tomorrow night to bring you a very
special first episode. They have found some amazing footage that tells a
unique story about these presidential candidates. How they got their
start. How they became who they are today, and the battles they`ve been
fighting along the way.


TOM BROKAW, NBC NEWS: Hillary Rodham Clinton is a twofer. She`s
first lady and captain of the president`s effort to get health care reform
through Congress.

Today on Capitol Hill, those two titles commanded a great deal of
attention and a little tension.

NBC`s Lisa Myers reports on the first lady`s day as first witness.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), THEN-FIRST LADY: You`re going to blind me.

LISA MYERS, NBC: It was a sellout crowd with 200 more lining the
halls for a peek of the star witness. Hillary Clinton was succinct and to
the point.

CLINTON: Americans can no longer wait for health care reform. As we
sit here today, literally hundreds and hundreds of Americans will lose
their health care insurance.

MYERS: Two other first ladies have testified before Congress,
Eleanor Roosevelt and Rosalynn Carter. But Hillary Clinton is unique in
her political power and her broad policy influence.

CLINTON: First of all, there is no free lunch in this health care
plan. It is not going to be free. Everybody is going to be paying

MYERS: Later before another committee, she rejected suggestions that
benefits for the uninsured be postponed until savings are achieved to pay
for them.

CLINTON: Until we get everybody into the health care system, we
cannot control costs.

MYERS: Hillary Clinton recently told Senate Democrats that she would
soon fade into the background and leave the limelight to her husband. The
senators objected, saying Hillary, not the president, is the most effective
and most credible salesman.


MELBER: It is and not about just about Hillary Clinton. There are
some fascinating Republican candidate stories, including a visit with the
Bush brothers in 1985.


REPORTER: Given your dad`s loyalty to President Reagan this time
around, particularly, would you expect the president to support your dad if
he wanted to make a run for in it `88?

GEORGE W. BUSH: Don`t touch it.

JEB BUSH: I don`t think so. I don`t know, I don`t think he should
as president. But it would be a nice surprise.

REPORTER: You said don`t touch it.

G.W. BUSH: Well, because –

J. BUSH: You`re assuming he`s running, first of all, by that

REPORTER: Would you like to see him run?

J. BUSH: I would.

G.W. BUSH: I would too.


MELBER: Not only did they get to see their dad run. They had both
gotten to do it themselves. There is an incredible George W. Bush moment
that you will not want to miss that.

And of course, we had to. There will be lots and lots of vintage
Donald Trump.


NARRATOR: To relax, this high roller doesn`t just buy a ticket for
the game. He buys the entire team. Yes, the New Jersey Generals football

TRUMP: I just very much enjoy sports. And it`s just a very small
thing. It`s a hobby. It`s nothing else.

NARRATOR: Not surprisingly, Trump has big plans.

TRUMP: I like the idea of buying this, competing against, directly
against the NFL for a number of years, creating the same thing. Fighting
them, going to war with them and see what happens.


MELBER: The tale of the tape. It is a very special edition of THE
RACHEL MADDOW SHOW. Tomorrow night, Rachel will be back for it. She`s
been at work on it for a long time and she is, I can tell you, very excited
about sharing with it all of you. That is tomorrow night right here.


MELBER: Take a look at this tape. This was the scene earlier
tonight in the northeastern Chinese port city of Tianjin.


MELBER: Hundreds of people have been injured and at least 17 killed
after a series of huge explosions went off in a warehouse storing hazardous
goods there in Tianjin. That is east of Beijing. Close to 300 people have
been admitted to hospitals in the city.

Local police saying an unidentified number of people were trapped in
the wreckage there. Local state-run news outlets reporting the initial
explosion triggered another blasts at nearby businesses. The explosion
took place at a warehouse for a company that was there in the port area.

Now, it is still unclear exactly the nature of the material that
caused that huge explosion. We do know, though, that the explosions
happened within about 30 seconds of each other and shortly before midnight
local time.

These explosions also were so large the China earthquake network
center reported that the first blast strength was equal to that of threaten
tons of TNT. In the second blast, the equivalent of get this, 21 tons of
TNT. Just a really harrowing and terrifying scene.

Again, 17 people reported killed at this point, hundreds injured and
China`s president tonight calling for a massive effort to rescue those who
may still be trapped.

More ahead on our show tonight. Please stay with us.


MELBER: It was a joyous scene for so many when the Supreme Court
legalized same-sex marriage this summer. The arguments in the case were
fascinating because the judges were basically asked to grapple with a deep
question. What`s the point of marriage? What is it for? What is its

Opponents of same-sex marriage found themselves on the defensive in
the courtroom, trying to offer logical, sane sounding explanations for why
marriage had to be restricted to only straight couples. One of the reasons
was that marriage`s goal, they argued, was physical procreation which only
straight people can do, they said. Of course, not all straight people, by
the way, and not straight people of all ages.

Opponents argued that expanding marriage`s definition would ruin
that, however. Ruin procreation as the goal and also harm children.

Now, the court didn`t simply protect same-sex marriage when it ruled
against those opponents in that historic opinion. Justice Anthony Kennedy,
who was born in 1936, he wrote in his ruling that same-sex marriages are
affirmatively good for children. Many same-sex couples provide loving and
nurturing homes to their children, whether biological or adopted, he wrote.

Hundreds of thousands of children are presently being raised by such
couples, excluding same sex couples from marriage, thus conflicts with the
central premise of the right to marry, he wrote. Without the recognition,
stability, and predictability marriage offers, their children suffer the
stigma of knowing their families are somehow lesser.

The marriage laws at issue here he wrote, thus harm and humiliate the
children of same-sex couples. And with that reasoning, the court struck
down the state laws banning gay marriage in part because in the court`s
opinion, those laws, far from protecting children, as they were originally
sold, they actually harmed them.

Now, last week a federal judge in Nebraska struck down that state`s
ban on gay couple`s adopting or fostering children. Citing the Supreme
Court marriage decision and in that ruling, almost every ban in the country
on same-sex couples adopting children is now out of the picture.

But there is one left. And this morning, four Mississippi gay
couples challenged their state`s ban in federal court and they`ve picked an
icon to represent them. Attorney Roberta Kaplan who took Edie Windsor`s
case to the Supreme Court two years ago. She argued the justices should
overturn the Federal Defense of Marriage Act, you may remember, and she

And then, right after winning that case, she went to Mississippi
where she argued in federal court that Mississippi`s ban on same-sex
marriage itself was unconstitutional. Roberta Kaplan made that case in
Mississippi of all places and she won that. Now, she is returning to
Mississippi, we can report, for this next battle, maybe a final battle over
the state`s gay adoption ban.

The fact it is the only such ban left in the country and that gay
marriage is now legal nationwide shows how much and how quickly the nation
is changing.

In another sign of all the evolution on these issues, we want to tell
you the very governor who signed this Mississippi ban into law in 2000,
Ronnie Musgrove, well, he`s recanted. His explanation strikes a note
tracks with Justice Kennedy`s logic.

The governor writing, quote, “There are far too many children in
America in need of a loving home who are shuttled between temporary homes
and group shelters that fail on provide the stable nurturing environment
all children deserve. I came to understand that a person`s sexual
orientation has absolutely nothing to do with their ability to be a good
parent,” he wrote.

Now, the current governor of Mississippi, that is a pretty different
story. Governor Phil Bryant provided us here with a statement today,
saying, “The current statutory law in Mississippi prohibits adoption by
couples of the same gender. This prohibition was added by the legislature
in 2000. I hope the attorney general will vigorously defend the state
against this lawsuit.”

We reached out to the attorney general but have not heard back yet.
If he does plan to vigorously defend this law, he will be up a pretty
seasoned opponent.

Joining us now is that seasoned attorney the Mississippi attorney
general might find himself facing off against, Roberta Kaplan. And we want
to mention her book, “Then Comes Marriage: U.S. Versus Windsor and The
Defeat of DOMA”, is going to be out in paperback in October.

An honor to have you back here on Rachel`s table.

ROBERTA KAPLAN, ATTORNEY: Thank you. It`s a pleasure to be here,
Ari. Thanks for the seasoned. I like the seasoned.

MELBER: Well, I think seasoned, it is just facts at this point.
You`ve done so many of these cases. You are optimistic about this one.



KAPLAN: Well, you know, what the governor said in his statement is
factually correct. It is factually correct that the law in Mississippi
prohibits gay couples from adopting in Mississippi. It is factually
correct that that law was passed in 2000, but it`s legally, totally
impermissible today for a law like that to exist on the books and to treat
married gay couples differently than married straight couples, and their
children, not to mention.

MELBER: The people you`re representing. What is their current
situation under this law and how would they benefit if you win?

KAPLAN: Yes. So, it`s really – these are really compelling
stories. We have two couples who have children. One is a 14-year-old boy.
One is an 8-year-old girl. They only – even though they have two parents,
two mommies who have been their mommies since birth, only one of those is
their mommy legally.

As the 8-year-old girl said, I want both my mommies to be my mommies
on my birth certificate. And every kid is entitled to have their parents
be their legal parents.

MELBER: We`ve discussed this before and you`ve discussed effectively
in court. Why is it that the opponents to marriage equality got so stuck
on the adoption issue? Because as a matter of law, before it was a matter
of politics, it actually set them backwards.

KAPLAN: Yes. I think because as the arguments developed over time,
the only difference that they could come up with between a gay married
couple and a straight married couple was this possibility that some
straight couples accidentally procreate. In other words, they get pregnant
by accident. And what`s gong to happen to those kids? That was the only
distinction they could come up with. And so, that distinction became the
central part of their argument for why gay people shouldn`t be treated
equally under the law.

It makes no sense. The court concluded it makes no sense, and I`m
convinced the court of Mississippi is going to conclude it makes sense.

MELBER: And if you win that case, then you`re in a position where as
many people have pointed out, the civil rights, these family issues seem
settled. And yet employment discrimination and other types of
discrimination can still exist against gay Americans. That`s not the order
of progress that many people expected.

KAPLAN: Yes. You know, it is somewhat surprising. I think, on one
sense it is surprising. It is ridiculous that in many states like
Mississippi, you can be married as a gay person but you can be fired from
your job for being gay. That`s obviously nutso and we need to fix that.

On the other hand, if you think about how our society and how our
government recognizes the relationship between two people, the loving
committed relationship between two people, it is through marriage. And
what distinguishes gay people from everyone else is who we love. So, it
makes sense the key to establishing our equality under the law is through
marriage and through being parents. If you think about it, it actually
makes sense.

MELBER: Let me ask you a straight political question beyond the

KAPLAN: I`m just a country lawyer but I`ll try.

MELBER: Do you think 2016 may be the first race in a while where
Republicans aren`t running against your cases and clients?

KAPLAN: I think it is. I think none of them really want to run
against our cases and clients. I think they realize against a Democratic
opponent, hopefully Hillary Clinton, they`re going to have a tough time
running on these issues. I think they have no desire to – some of them
mouth the words but I don`t think any of them including the governor of the
state of Mississippi really means it anymore.

MELBER: All right. Attorney Roberta Kaplan, busy with these cases -
- thank you for being here.

KAPLAN: Thank you. It`s great seeing you, Ari.

MELBER: For the purposes of cable news hosts, the worst political
ads are in our view, kind of the best. Now, tonight, we have one that
makes you want to stand up and cheer or fight a robot or something. We`ll
explain. Just stay with us.


MELBER: OK, chart imitates life.

We are in the middle of another election season, which mean that
Republicans, as they have for the last three elections in a row, have been
busy going after their favorite target.


DANA BASH, CNN REPORTER: So you are in the Oval Office. You are
saying Obamacare.

TRUMP: It`s got to go.

BASH: It`s got to go.

TRUMP: Repeal and replace with something terrific.


MELBER: It`s got to go.

Stamping out Obamacare is, of course, a GOP obsession. It`s talking
point number one on the campaign trail.

But perhaps we don`t need to replace it with something terrific quite
yet. Every day seems to bring in more evidence that Obamacare is working,
as a factual matter of national policy. The latest data to come out on
that today, well, the year after President Obama took office in 2010, the
number of uninsured across the country was around 49 million. When
Obamacare started to kick in 2013, the number – well, it started to go
down to 45 million.

Now, that`s not a huge change, but it was an early indication many
people thought this was working. Now, after Obamacare`s been in effect for
two years, look at what`s happened. The uninsured number is down to 29
million. The number of people without health insurance has been cut by 116
million or one-third since the beginning of Obamacare can.

Now, all of this success may not be reflected in the day-to-day
political sparring. These numbers really don`t lie. This law is working
as intended. So, yes, chart imitates life.



AD NARRATOR: Tom Campbell, is he what he tells us or what he has
become over the years, an FCINO, fiscal conservative in name only, a wolf
in sheep`s clothing, a man who literally helped to put the state of
California on the path to bankruptcy and higher taxes? Fiscal
conservative, or just another same-old tale of tax-and-spend authored by
career politician who helped to guide us in to this fiscal mess in the
first place?


MELBER: That ad, the demon sheep ad run by Carly Fiorina, in 2010,
remains one of the most bizarre and really wonderful campaign ads in recent
elections. I mean, from that guy`s preview voice, to those red glowing
eyes that were supposed to represent, we`re not sure, we think a wolf to
the demon sheep man crawling away, showing off the human boots.

A master class in political theater, and we can`t believe her
campaign lost the academy award to “King`s Speech” that year.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Oscar goes to “King`s Speech”, David Seidler.



MELBER: You know, that is a stunning turn of events. Who can forget

Anyway, demon sheep is not the only campaign ad that stands out in
recent years for its insanity. In fact, one of the best parts of covering
the election is seeing all the various insane ways that candidates and PACs
spend their money.


CHRIS O`DONNELL: I`m not a witch. I`m nothing you have heard. I`m

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We can take this country back.


AD NARRATOR: For insurance executives, John Klein is music to their
ears. Because if Congress repeals Obamacare, insurance companies will go
back to charging whatever they want.

AD NARRATOR: Connected to a lone shark ring, run by an international
gangster, who also contributed to Peter`s campaign.


AD NARRATOR: For more than 20 years, Joe Manchin has gotten his hair
cut by the same barber, his wife Gayle.

CHARACTER 1: Remember when we chilling down by Bruce Braley`s
vacation home.

CHARACTER 2: Yes, down by the lake, the guy running for senator.

CHARACTER 1: Yes, he threatened to sue over that.

CHARACTER 2: Because he walked on his property?

CHARACTER 1: Uh-huh. He wants to be an Iowa senator and threatens
to sue us over us, over chickens.


up castrating hogs on a farm. When I get to Washington I will know how to
cut pork.



MELBER: Each of those ads is special in their own way. But one
candidate has upped the ante for the coming elections and his name is Wyatt
Scott. If you don`t recognize him as one of the 2016 presidential
candidates, that`s because he`s not running for president. He is running
for parliament in Canada.


WYATT SCOTT: Hey. I`m Wyatt Scott and I`m running for parliament
for the new riding a mission, Frazier Canyon.

I`m an independent candidate and I`m here to fight for Canada!

University is too damn expensive.

Services like health care and social programs should be expanded, not

The indigenous people aren`t even protected by their own government.

Change is coming to Canada. I`m here to lead that charge.

Are you ready for the shift?

I am.

My name is Wyatt Scott and I`m running for parliament!


MELBER: Slaying dragons, making friends with aliens, taking down
robots with laser beams, 2016 hopefuls, the bar has officially been raised.

All right. That does it for us tonight. I am Ari Melber, sitting in
for Rachel. You can always find me on You can
find Rachel back here tomorrow night.

And now, it is time for “THE LAST WORD WITH LAWRENCE O`DONNELL.”

Good evening, Lawrence.


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