Politics Nation, Transcript 7/9/2017

Guests:
Kristen Clarke, Dale Ho, Seema Iyer, Gordon Chang, Malcolm Nance, Ro Khanna, Jesse Jackson
Transcript:

Show: POLITICS NATION
Date: July 9, 2017
Guest: Kristen Clarke, Dale Ho, Seema Iyer, Gordon Chang, Malcolm Nance,
Ro Khanna, Jesse Jackson

AL SHARPTON, MSNBC HOST: Good morning and welcome to “PoliticsNation.”

As the nation celebrated its independence this week, in parts of Chicago
there was no reason to party as gun violence continued to rock the Windy
City. We`ll talk about that in a moment.

Also, President Trump`s voter fraud commission is having a real hard time
fighting a problem that simply doesn`t exist. More on that also later in
the show.

But first, it was a big week for President Trump on the international
stage, meeting with a number of G20 world leaders including Vladimir Putin.

And among topics of discussion was the escalating tensions with North
Korea.

Joining me is Gordon Chang, a columnist for “The Daily Beast” and author of
the books “Nuclear Showdown: North Korea Takes on the World” and “The
Coming Collapse of China.”

Also with me is Malcolm Nance, our MSNBC terrorism analyst and executive
director of the Terror Asymmetrics Project. He`s the author of “The Plot
to Hack America: How Putin`s Cyber Spies and Wikileaks Tried to Steal the
2016 Election.”

Gordon, how does the world look this morning at the United States? I mean,
we saw this week G20, first time the United States was not front and center
on a lot of the issues in terms of dominating, had stepped out of the
climate change accord in Paris, some were even saying it was the G19 plus
1.

How do we look to the world this morning?

GORDON CHANG, COLUMNIST, THE DAILY BEAST: We look very different. And it
was certainly clear from the G20 photograph. Because you had Angela Merkel
the host in the center. President Trump was five down in the front row.
Normally, he`d be very much closer to the host.

And the people are saying – and it is true – that you have a G19 right
now.

Now, the United States – and they got a different position, we`ve got many
different interests than the rest of the world. But nonetheless, it is an
uncomfortable position for American policymakers because since the end of
the Cold War, we`ve been at the center of the international system.

SHARPTON: Malcolm, the fact that you had this – the president not
centered not only in photographs, but not really centered in the
discussions, stepping out of climate change, really not saying – coming
with a definitive move on North Korea which either by timing or by their
own schedule had come with this missile test right before G20 and with the
fact that his meeting with Mr. Putin lasted over two hours. And he seemed
to bring Mr. Putin back on the equal footing with the United States,
something that he had slipped away from.

Do you think that Donald Trump tripped up and played into Putin`s hands,
especially when we even have conflicting reports on how they dealt with the
hacking of the election of 2016 in the United States, done at Putin`s
order?

MALCOLM NANCE, MSNBC TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, certainly Donald Trump is
completely obsessed with anything that questions his legitimacy and the
U.S. intelligence community aside, which he insulted the day before, he is
just going to play to his strength, which is obfuscating the entire issue.

But doing that on a world stage in front of the G20 and doing it and
essentially hosting a sub-summit with Vladimir Putin shows that the
alignment that he sees in his head of the United States is actually to
bring us down and bring Russia up.

You know, Gordon is absolutely right, it comes off almost as if there is no
G20 anymore, that he sees his America first movement as removing us from
all of the general nation states who comprise these top biggest economies.

Even worse, it`s the running away from the globalization that the United
States created after fighting World War II that he thinks is going to move
our economies forward. It`s the exact opposite and you can just see that
in that image that Mr. Chang was discussing where Trump is off to the side,
to the left-hand side of the coterie that was there and essentially
everyone else.

And, you know, this is not going to bode well for our economy and certainly
in terms of the North Korean peninsula. He had an opportunity to rally the
entire world, certainly through the G20, against North Korea and he did
not.

SHARPTON: Gordon, isn`t that what should concern or at least interest
people watching us this morning? One, that we`re dealing with a global
economy, but we have a president that clearly went in there on an American
first nationalist kind of mentality.

Two, that there was no real definitive answer to what we can deal with in
terms of North Korea. I mean, we saw what happened with the potential
danger, the whole exercise right before G20. I`m not sure that we have any
assurance, any strategy, any plan after G20 or G19 plus one in terms of
North Korea that I could be comforted by.

CHANG: Yes, those two issues you discussed, trade and North Korea, are
linked because the United States needs to lead an international coalition
against North Korea and that`s clear.

We have some of our friends on side, Japan and maybe South Korea, but we
need to rally others as well because we`re going to need Europe`s help on
this and clearly this is what the frictions that you saw at the G20 it
makes it much more difficult.

When President Trump withdrew from the Trans-Pacific Partnership, he gave
up a little bit of leadership in the pacific where we`re going to need help
from all of our friends and all of the other countries there.

SHARPTON: Well, the whole world is interconnected. On the international
stage, Malcolm, very quickly, do you give the president`s performance an A,
B, C?

NANCE: Well, I would say it`s more like a D. I mean, the United States,
the global bulwark since World War II has removed itself from the world and
that`s how it appears and to his, you know, political audience and base in
the United States that`s great, but they don`t understand that we have also
removed ourselves and are damaging U.S. trade and our ability to control
foreign policy in the future.

SHARPTON: Well, and when his base starts losing some of the jobs based on
the trade, I don`t know how much that base remains there.

Thank you, Gordon Chang and Malcolm Nance.

Joining me with more on this is Congressman Ro Khanna of California, a
democrat who sits on the Armed Services Committee. Thank you for being
with me this morning, congressman.

REP. RO KHAN (D), CALIFORNIA: Thank you for having me on.

SHARPTON: North Korea, you served on the Armed Services Committee. Do you
hear any definitive answer to the threat of North Korea? They have now
launched a missile, shown that they can reach Alaska.

What is the strategy? What is the plan? What are we doing here?

KHANNA: I think President Trump missed a huge opportunity and there is
bipartisan consensus on what needs to be done. Bill Perry, George Schultz
wrote a letter to him and Sam Nunn saying let`s engage in direct
negotiations with North Korea.

We did that in the 1990s. There was the 1994 framework. It was
successful.

There is no plan of diplomatic outreach or negotiation and so we`re waiting
for a strategy and the people who know that area have outlined what a
strategy should be.

SHARPTON: But he was there in Hamburg meeting with the world leaders. He
met with President Xi of China. He met with Putin. I mean, when are we
going to come up with a strategy and tried to have partners in that
strategy or deal with China in that strategy if we couldn`t do it this
week?

I mean, did he just choke? Is he inept? Or is there some hidden strategy
that even the Armed Services Committee of the U.S. congress doesn`t know?

KHANNA: Well, I think there is an ineptness, one, there is no nuance.
Just having bluster and saying, we`re going to take care of North Korea
doesn`t solve anything.

We know in the 1990s the framework negotiated under the Bill Clinton
administration succeeded, partly because you had a negotiation, you had
nuance, and then George Bush came and declared North Korea part of the axis
of evil.

John Bolton got rid of all of those agreements and we have the situation we
do now. We need to go back to diplomatic approach and the president has
shown no even understanding of what we need to do. And then he has seated
as you mentioned any moral authority.

He never spoke about human rights to Putin. He never brought up issues of
climate change. I`ve never seen an American president cede moral authority
on the world stage like the president has.

SHARPTON: Now, let me ask you, there are some even saying that maybe this
can lead or should lead to a conversation with the head of state of North
Korea, Mr. Premiere Kim.

Would that be something that you would say is way off the scale or way out
of line, or would that be something that you would say is possibly
productive?

KHANNA: I think we have to keep that option open and have direct
negotiation. You know, Bill Perry who is so thoughtful about these things
said that the risk of war is largely because of misunderstanding and we saw
that when we engaged in direct negotiations with North Korea, we had a
program to buy up their intercontinental ballistic missiles in the 1990s,
it worked.

There were accusations of cheating on both sides but there was a framework
that was leading to a solution and we ought to have that on the table.
That`s not just me as a democrat saying that, that`s people like George
Schultz who helped negotiate the end of the cold war saying that.

And what I don`t understand is why the president isn`t bringing in these
people like Sam Nunn, George Schultz, Bill Perry and saying let`s have a
strategy. He has offered no strategy. Just tweeting is not a strategy
when the safety of the United States is concerned.

SHARPTON: Now, let me go to healthcare. You are, as you said, a democrat
in congress. We are seeing the congress is getting ready to come back from
the Fourth of July break.

We`re hearing on one level that the senate has a secret strategy now to try
to come and – in my terms not yours – bum rush something through, others
are saying that they`ve gotten even more people in the senate that are
saying they`re not going to support this, they`re not going to vote for the
senate plan on healthcare.

How do you read it? What`s going to happen? What`s your prediction?

KHANNA: Well, I don`t think the votes are going to be there. When the CBO
came out and said 22 million people would lose their healthcare coverage
with this plan, I just don`t see how in good conscience people can support
it.

And I will give you credit, when you ran in 2003 and you were talking about
Medicare for all, you were quite a visionary back then and I actually see
now a lot more appetite in the house about a real plan of getting Medicare
for all which will deal with the costs and also help expand coverage.

If we really want to improve healthcare, we should do what you were talking
about back in 2003.

SHARPTON: I thank you for giving me credit, but I also give credit for
President Obama. He not only talked about it, he did it. But I`ll take my
credit as starting to talk about it. Thank you, Congressman Ro Khanna this
morning.

Coming up, the ongoing shootings on the streets of Chicago, a look at some
answers to what it feels like. It feels like an everlasting loop of
violence to so many.

I`ll talk to one of my mentors, Reverend Jesse Jackson about it. This is
“PoliticsNation” on MSNBC.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: The nation celebrated its independence this past week, partaking
in the usual grilling and fireworks and fun and sun –and fun in the sun, I
should say.

But in parts of Chicago it was a much different story. More than 100
people were shot, with 13 of them dying over the holiday.

Chicago police report most of the violence took place in a six-hour period
Monday night and early Tuesday, predominantly on the south and west sides
of the city.

Now, the Trump administration says it will send an additional 20 ATF agents
to the city to stem the gun violence. That violence has left more than
1,000 dead over the past 18 months.

It`s mind-boggling. Many of us have been wrestling, I even took an
apartment out there for a while, but it keeps coming.

So when I want to know what we`re going to do, I go to our –my mentor in
civil rights who is in Chicago and has been leading there for many years
since his days with Dr. King, Reverend Jesse Jackson, the president and
founder of Rainbow PUSH Coalition.

Reverend Jackson, yesterday you and father Michael Pfleger and others had a
vigil to demonstrate the outrage and to call on the government to deal on a
multi-level way of stemming this violence. Tell us about that.

JESSE JACKSON, PRESIDENT, RAINBOW PUSH COALITION: Al, thank you very much
for allowing me to be with you today. It`s not just emergency, it`s more
than that. This is an international scene of terrorism.

Guns have been run in from across state lines, some of them a gun shop in
Chicago. Drugs are being trumpeted in from across international lines and
jobs are going out to third world countries.

So drugs in, guns in, jobs out. It takes more than 20 police to stop that.
Plus, you cannot police poverty.

The areas that you had mentioned there are nine areas in Chicago where the
unemployment is 22 percent, poverty 40 percent, medium income $10,000 a
year.

They closed 50 public schools and around those schools, Al, the housing
value went down, the businesses closed. So it`s a disaster zone. We need
a plan for reconstruction.

SHARPTON: Now, when you talk about a plan for reconstruction, I remember
when I was a teenager and was youth director under you and Reverend William
Jones, I`d go to Chicago and we`d see where Martin Luther King stayed on
the west side, you would show us in the youth of the black businesses, John
Johnson and George Johnson and others.

What happened to all of that? Why is all of that gone and why is the
sacred view of where Dr. King and others built the movement that produced
you, what happened to that Chicago?

JACKSON: Well, in part you have a case where the banks are using subprime
lending schemes to decapitate this community.

Eighty thousand vacant homes and abandoned lots. If there were a plan to
remove lead paint from the walls, which is the law and lead from the water
which is a health issue, to clean up the vacant lots, jobs. To demolish
those homes that cannot be rebuilt, jobs. To fix up those that can be
fixed up, jobs. There may be more jobs than people.

There is no plan to reinvest. And even there is a transportation problem.
There are kind of three Chicagos, there`s the north side, unemployment less
than two percent, suburb job wanted signs and on the south and west sides
unemployment 20, 25 percent. We deserve a plan.

And unless you break the cycle of guns and drugs and jobs out, nothing is
going to happen.

You talk about grassroots. We asked last year for a White House conference
on violence, causes and cures, look at the disparities in healthcare,
education and jobs. It was the number one state in America in black
unemployment, number one in the nation in black employment. So we seem to
have a solution everything except jobs, education and healthcare.

SHARPTON: So number one in the nation in black unemployment, they just
overrode the governor`s veto in terms of a budget there in Illinois,
there`s no real plan in terms of education and the gun legislation has not
changed so they can import guns.

So it`s in this climate you have this kind of gun violence, rampant
violence, young people out there on the street unemployed, they`re not
regulated, there are not gangs like there were years ago when I would come
out there as a teenager, it`s just random unemployed well-armed desperate -
-

JACKSON: Just zones of abandoned property, zones of dilapidated housing,
zones of closed businesses, zones of banks that will not lend. Realignment
by banks, realignment by insurance companies. And so we deserve a plan.

It will cost more to educate than the jail. Al, there 10,000 on Cook
County jail, they`re on pretrial detention. Some have been in jail five
years awaiting trial.

It is a zone that deserves attention it is not receiving. And you can`t
just give this kind of superficial answer 20 police – 20 police cannot
stop gun running from down state Illinois and Kentucky coming across these
– and then they`re going to come across these borders, cannot stop the
drug flow coming across the international borders.

This is a scene of international terrorism. This is what terrorism looks
like. Children trying to study, afraid to go to school, afraid to go to
the park, this is what international terrorism looks like at home.

SHARPTON: All right. Thank you, Reverend Jesse Jackson. And then let me
say, coming up we`re staying in Chicago. A questionable incentive for high
school students trying to answer the age old question what do you do when
you grow up.

But let me say I`ll be in Chicago this week, National Action Network and I
are meeting with ministers when the federal government should be challenged
on how they`re going to come in and supporting the call we made for 1,000
ministers to march on Washington on the anniversary of the March on
Washington.

I will also be joining Reverend Jackson and Andrew Young and C.T. Vivian
and other leaders of the King era as they join Reverend Jackson in Chicago
this week.

So we`re going to focus every generation on what`s going on in Chicago.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: And now for this week`s gotcha. This one is for the children.
Well, more specifically for the teenagers who in Chicago, Chicago`s Mayor
Rahm Emanuel wants to penalize for not having all their ducks in row by the
tender age of 18.

Let me elaborate. This week we learned about Emanuel`s plan for all of his
city`s high school seniors, that they need to have a demonstrable plan
after they graduate in the form of a job, a college acceptance letter,
military service, or a trade apprenticeship in order to graduate.

Emanuel`s plan will take effect in 2020, which hopefully will give the
Chicago public school systems enough time to right its ship, because it was
forced to lay off 1,000 teachers and staffers in 2016, and had to turn to
private lending just to keep doors open this year.

I`m sure some will say, Rev, don`t we want our youth, especially our poor
black and brown kids to understand that high school is just the beginning,
especially in Chicago?

I hear you, but now hear this. It`s precisely because of those
disadvantages that this plan is so counterproductive, because it places an
extra charge on overburdened, outnumbered guidance counselors already
fearful of a pink slip, and as bad as it is for them, try to imagine a poor
kid in rough neighborhoods already scarce on opportunity having to present
a plan for the future when getting through the day can literally be a
matter of life and death.

As for the so-called options, let`s start with college. As of 2015 only 16
percent of Chicago high school students start college immediately after
graduation.

To get a job, there have to be some. And the unemployment rate in
Chicago`s black male teens is already the worst among the nation`s major
cities.

And while military service is admirable, we should not expect our kids to
have to risk their lives just to be able to move on with them.

Mr. Emanuel, I`m sure your heart was in the right place and you`ve got a
tough city to run, but if you`re going to add another barrier to young
people`s progress while plotting your 2019 reelection, you might want to
have your plan for the future on deck because there`s parents just might –
those parents – those parents in Chicago, they might turn around and say,
we got you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRIS KOBACH, SECRETARY OF STATE OF KANSAS: I`m only aware of three states
that have said they won`t give us what`s publicly available which is kind
of silly.

Any person can walk in off the street and request these voter roles, the
publicly available the name, the date of birth is available in most states
and so is the address where the voter lives.

So that`s all we`re asking for. In fact, the vast majority of states said
of course, we`re going to provide this information.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AL SHARPTON, MSNBC HOST: That was Kansas secretary of state Kris Kobach
vice chair of the Trump administration`s voter integrity commission which
is having a real hard time fighting a problem that doesn`t exist.

Because as of today, 48 states and the District of Columbia have refused to
comply with the commission`s full request for sensitive voter information.
Twenty-one giving a hard no, 27 saying they will only provide what is
already publicly available.

Their reluctance stemming from concerns about voter privacy and the risk of
hacking. And we learned this week that the commission is already facing
legal challenges from lawmakers and privacy advocates.

While Kobach himself is being sued by a legal group, the Lawyers Committee
for Civil Rights, for allegedly using the commission to garner support for
a 2018 run for governor of Kansas.

Joining me now is the president and executive director of the Lawyers
Committee, Kristen Clarke. And Dale Ho the director of the ACLU`s Voting
Rights Project.

Dale, let me ask you, many of us in the civil rights community has been
very concerned about a series of things that we feel have been really
suppressing voters and denying voting rights one of the real tenets of the
civil rights movement.

Do you feel this commission and what Kobach is doing is some inadvertent
way of continuing the suppression that we`ve seen around some of us
questioning the voter photo ID and ending early voter days or cutting them
down or ending Sunday go to the polls?

DALE HO, PRESIDENT, ACLU VOTING RIGHTS PROJECT: I think it absolutely is.
The only word that I would disagree with is inadvertent.

There are two purposes of this commission, one, to sell the lie that Trump
won the popular vote when in fact he lost by almost three million votes.

SHARPTON: Right.

HO: And, two, to use exaggerated stories of fraud to attempt to justify
new restrictions on the ballot. And look at who is running this
commission, it`s Kris Kobach, as you mentioned.

The ACLU had to sue him four times last year, we won every time to stop him
from suppressing votes.

SHARPTON: Kristen, you have said in a lawsuit, the Lawyers Committee has
said in a lawsuit, that this, in fact, is something that he, he being
Kobach, is using to raise money and to really set up a kind of support base
for his race for governor because he`s trying to deal with a problem that
does not exist.

KRISTEN CLARKE, PRESIDENT, LAWYERS` COMMITTEE FOR CIVIL RIGHTS: There is
an important federal law called the Hatch Act that prohibits federal
employees from using their official government position to promote
political and partisan activity.

The president appointed Kris Kobach to serve as vice-chair of the so-called
election integrity commission in early June. And weeks later Kris Kobach
announced that he was running for governor of Kansas.

And at every step of the way, Kris Kobach has used his official role as
vice-chair of this commission to promote his gubernatorial run.

The Hatch Act prohibits this kind of conduct and we believe that we have
set forth extensive evidence that shows that Kris Kobach is using
everything that he does with this commission so that he can ultimately
secure that gubernatorial position in Kansas.

We think it`s unlawful. But more importantly, we believe that this
commission is a dangerous and unprecedented attempt to promote voter
suppression across our country. It`s dangerous and we encourage states
across the country not to participate or turn over data to this commission.

SHARPTON: Now, when they have named it the integrity commission, I mean,
the integrity commission in and of itself I found very interesting because
they are really trying to claim that there were millions of fraudulent
votes that no one has seen but them.

I mean, it`s largely been in their heads and if there was integrity
involved, you would have to come out and say that we misled, we either
hallucinated or we just deceived the American people into even the need for
such a commission.

HO: I think that`s absolutely right. I mean, let`s remember that the
president`s own legal team during the recount litigation in Michigan told a
court all available evidence indicates that the 2016 election was not
tainted by fraud or mistake.

So if that was true then, I think it`s a reasonable question to ask, what
has changed? Well, what`s changed is there`s been one conviction for voter
fraud in 2016.

SHARPTON: One out of how many votes?

HO: Over, you know, about 140 million votes. And here is the conviction,
a woman this Iowa who voted twice for Trump because she thought that the
election was rigged.

SHARPTON: Kristen, one of the tenets of the civil rights movement and when
you look at Dr. King and John Lewis and I heard Reverend Jackson on and all
and then you and I, others that are out here now with national civil rights
concerns.

The basis of it to protect it was the civil right to vote, voting rights.
All of this kinds of undermines is in a 21st century way. They no longer
ask you questions like how many jellybeans in a jar or some other kind of
ridiculous question, but they set up ridiculous policies and I think that
at the bottom of this that`s the concern of this integrity commission.

Invasion of privacy and looking for people other than us, almost like
birtherizing the voter process and it`s really a diversion from protecting
people`s right to vote.

CLARKE: The right to vote is the most important civil right in our
democracy and we expect government to take action and do work to promote
and safeguard that right.

What I find so incredibly shameful is that since this commission has gotten
under way we`re hearing from election officials in Colorado and in Arizona
who are reporting that voters are asking that their names be taken off the
rolls because they don`t want their data to be subsumed in this big brother
attempt to warehouse data on more than 200 million registered Americans
across our country.

I find that disgraceful. I hope that voters will stand firm and take no
action to remove themselves from the rolls. We want Americans to
participate in our democracy and we intend to do all that we can to resist
and terminate this commission`s dangerous agenda.

SHARPTON: I`m running out of time, but ACLU, how do you intend to confront
those acts that would in any way interfere with people`s privacy rights?

HO: Well, the first thing that we need to make sure is that everything
that this commission does is transparent.

Under federal law, a commission like this has to be open to the public,
they have to make all of their documents open to the public, but they have
already met, they`ve conducted business and they gave no public notice of
that meeting. The public wasn`t allowed to listen in on that meeting and
we haven`t seen their documents, that`s the first step.

SHARPTON: All right. Thank you, Kristen Clarke and Dale Ho.

A quick update, Education Secretary Betsy DeVos is on the hot seat again,
this time being sued by 18 states and the District of Columbia over her
last minute, quote, reset of an Obama era rule that helps student borrowers
saddled with debt from for-profit colleges accused of fraud.

For-profit colleges accused of fraud, maybe she can ask her boss for
advice.

Up next, Florida`s Stand-your-ground law was told to take a seat this week.
More on why it matters, when we return. We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: Social justice advocates logged a win this week as a Miami judge
ruled that an update to Florida`s Stand-your-ground law brought to national
attention in 2012 shooting death of Trayvon Martin violated the state`s
constitution by forcing prosecutors to disprove defendant`s self-defense
claims before a case can even reach a jury.

I was on the ground in Sanford, Florida after the killing of Trayvon martin
and can attest directly to the harm this law has caused by enabling private
citizens to become executioners.

And the 2012 study found that law overwhelmingly favors white defendants in
killings of blacks by a nearly four to one margin.

So even though the decision is sure to be challenged, starting with the
Florida attorney general`s office which says it will appeal the decision, I
have to appreciate this news because in this climate, a win is a win.

Joining me now is Seema Iyer, criminal defense and civil rights attorney.

Seema, we know it`s going to be challenged, but I think the ruling in and
of itself really underscores what many of us were concerned about from 2012

SEEMA IYER, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Right.

SHARPTON: – with Trayvon Martin on through other cases and many groups,
not only mine, but dream defenders and others were really trying to
dramatize.

IYER: Sure. Well, listen, this is a win, but stand-your-ground in and of
itself, right, it`s self-defense plus no duty to retreat.

What this piece of legislation was saying was now prosecution not only do
you have to have your own burden, but you have to disprove that there was
no stand-your-ground. This is so ridiculous and this is a win that should
stick at this point.

SHARPTON: Now, the basic law as you said, and that`s what upset and
concerned me when we went in to help to bring a lot of attention on Trayvon
Martin because at that time they wouldn`t even arrest and bring into court
what had happened based on this.

Is that there was no duty to retreat.

IYER: OK. Right. So number one, you`re justified in the killing. Number
two, there`s no duty to retreat. What Florida does, it expands what
started off as this castle doctrine, that you were the king of your castle
and you can protect your home, to the street, to the store, to the bar
because what happened with George Zimmermann, they were in the street, but
it still protected him in the sense that there was language given to the
jury instructions which we know about.

SHARPTON: Right.

IYER: So that`s why they`re saying there is no duty to retreat. And we
understand exigency, emergency, imminent threat of great bodily harm, but,
Rev, what the law is saying is there should be a moment to reflect before
taking another life.

SHARPTON: Right.

IYER: Because as also we both know that even when you are justified in
taking a life, there is a great trauma there for the person taking the
life.

SHARPTON: Absolutely. And on the other side of that question is the race
question, as I said.

IYER: Yes.

SHARPTON: That when you deal with it, with white to black –

IYER: Right.

SHARPTON: – there is a huge difference in how the law was used. I
remember there was a case where a young black lady who had been abused by
her husband –

IYER: Right.

SHARPTON: – and she defended herself, they put her in jail, and she was in
her castle with a record of abuse by the person and was claiming self-
defense. She went to jail.

So it was not even like this was across the board used as a defense based
on – it was more based on who you were and who your victim was than, well,
this is a way we protect people.

IYER: Right. And this has been seen throughout the country that these
type of laws favor white people over black and brown people. But there is
also the question of maybe there needs to be uniformity with stand-your-
ground and self-defense in general.

SHARPTON: Now, the question is that other – well, not only the question,
but the problem is that comes to my question, that other states began doing
variations of stand-your-ground.

IYER: Right.

SHARPTON: So this is not a Florida issue.

IYER: Right.

SHARPTON: Which is why I went back to this Florida judge`s decision, has
emanated, became known out of Florida because what many did around the
Zimmermann/Trayvon Martin situation, but other states started doing this
and we can see whatever is done here on appeal, this going all the way up
to the Supreme Court at some level.

IYER: It should, but also let me just be clear that what the court says is
that, listen, substance the law, in and of itself, what stand your ground
is that you can`t be arrested, detain or trialed if you were justifying the
killing. That`s the substance of law. That is your job legislatures.

Our job, the court`s job, is to deal with the procedures. So you tell me
what the law is, legislatures, and the court is going to find the vehicle
to make it happen.

The vehicle in this case being pretrial motions. Right? Asking for a
court to give you the hearing and the hearing in and of itself. So it`s
separate duties for each branch of government.

SHARPTON: And I think that that was part of what disturbed us. No one has
the right to prejudge a case. Zimmerman`s case, I just felt and many felt
you can`t just let somebody be killed and you don`t even try the facts.

But the law was standing there where you don`t even try the facts.

IYER: OK. So you get a hearing, a stand-your-ground hearing. That`s the
procedural mechanism for at least judging whether the stand-your-ground was
valid.

SHARPTON: Well, you get a hearing but it`s not like the life is in front
of a jury.

IYER: And I agree with that. I agree with that. It should be in front of
a jury.

SHARPTON: Seema Iyer, thank you. Good to see you.

Up next, my final thoughts. I`ll take a selfie.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: – New York this week. We join New Yorkers by saying. Wait a
minute, we must not only denounce it but support her family. And I was
proud yesterday at National Action Network that my daughter Ashley Sharpton
and leaders of, a youth group, Dominic and Chris gave a check to the local
newspaper, Daily News` fund for the family of that police officer of
$5,000.

But one of the things that I really had to think about a lot this week was
the power of selfies. I took note when representative Clay Higgins of
Louisiana got in a controversy because he did a selfie video at Auschwitz
as he was really kind of narrating his own review of what had happened
during the horrific holocaust, and many attacked him for it.

And it brought to mind that there was a lot of reaction went on father`s
day at 5:00 in the morning. I took a selfie of me before I went to do my
workout that day and then come to the studio and do “PoliticsNation” and
went on to preach two sermons that day.

Came pretty much close to – it was viral. A lot of reaction, pro and con.
One person even put my selfie on their birthday cake.

But let`s get past your opinion of the congressman or me, the power of
selfie to me is here.

So the question is, what do you with a selfie? Well, my answer is what you
do with yourself. If I`m showing that I want to stay fit, even though I
have a full day schedule, I`m not ashamed of that.

The question about arguing about selfies is you want to argue about what
you`re doing with yourself. As long as I`m doing something positive with
myself, I`m going to keep taking selfies. That does it for me, thanks for
watching, I`ll see you back here next week.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
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