PoliticsNation with Al Sharpton, Transcript 10/23/2016

Boris Epshteyn, Judith Browne Dianis, Stephanie Schriock, Jesse Jackson, Maria Teresa Kumar, Rich Galen

Date: October 23, 2016
Guest: Boris Epshteyn, Judith Browne Dianis, Stephanie Schriock, Jesse
Jackson, Maria Teresa Kumar, Rich Galen


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump`s new opponent, democracy.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I will totally accept the results if
I win.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Attacking the integrity of the election, while
insulting his opponent.

TRUMP: Such a nasty woman.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is Trump trying to win or lay the ground work for his
own TV network? One-on-one with the Trump senior adviser. Plus, the
rhetoric of a demagogue and the lessons for today.

GEORGE WALLACE, AMERICAN POLITICIAN: They`re trying to rig the election.

TRUMP: The media is trying to rig the election.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The election, just 16 days away.

AL SHARPTON, HOST: Good morning. I`m Al Sharpton. Just over two weeks
from the election, Donald Trump seems to have a new target, democracy. In
the days to come, you can expect Trump to dig in deeper. He (INAUDIBLE) he
may accept the results of the election or he may not.

TRUMP: I will totally accept the results of this great and historic
presidential election if I win. I would also reserve my right to contest
or file a legal challenge in the case of a questionable result.

SHARPTON: Here`s how NBC`s focus group reacted in real time to Trump`s
initial comment on this at the debate. Just watch the dial.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you make the same commitment that you will
absolutely – sir, that you will absolutely accept the result of this

TRUMP: I will look at it at the time. I`m not looking at anything now.
I`ll look at it at the time. What I have seen, what I`ve seen is so bad.


SHARPTON: That has earned some powerful rebukes from many Americans,
including President and Mrs. Obama.

BARACK OBAMA, U.S. PRESIDENT: When you try to sow the seeds of doubt in
people`s minds about the legitimacy of our election, that undermines
democracy. Then you`re doing the work of our adversaries for them.

MICHELLE OBAMA, U.S. FIRST LADY: You do not keep American democracy in
suspense. Because, look, too many people have marched and protested and
fought and died for this democracy.

SHARPTON: The Washington Post says Trump is now running a grievance
campaign. Not designed to win, but to appeal to his base. 45% of
republican voters say they may not accept the election outcome if their
candidate loses. Nearly half of the party. And there is something we also
see at Trump rallies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If she wins, will you accept the outcome?




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If she wins, will you personally accept the outcome of
the election?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If Hillary Clinton wins, will you accept the outcome?






SHARPTON: Those feelings have been fuelled by the rhetoric from the
candidate himself.

TRUMP: Remember, we`re competing in a rigged election. This is a rigged
election, folks, OK. This tremendous voter fraud. People that have died
10 years ago are still voting, illegal immigrants are voting. Millions of
people that are registered to vote that shouldn`t be registered to vote.
Look, if nothing else, people are going to be watching on November 8th.

SHARPTON: People are going to be watching? For what? Widespread voter
fraud is a myth. There is just a 1 in 32 million chance that someone
committed voter fraud over the last 14 years. To put that in perspective,
you`re more likely to be struck by lightning, you`re also more likely to be
attacked by a shark, you even been more likely to have actually been
elected president of the United States than you are find a case of voter
fraud. Joining me now is Boris Epshteyn, Trump campaign senior advisor.
Thank you for being here.

having me.

SHARPTON: Well, Boris, just how big would Clinton`s win have to be for
Trump to admit it is, quote, “not questionable?”

EPSHTEYN: It is not about the size of – or any difference in the
election, and Donald Trump is going to win. So, it`s not about Hillary
Clinton`s, you know, supposed win that`s not going to happen. The issue
here – and we should be agreeing on this is that we want for the election
to have integrity, to be proper, and then to be verified and certified and
then there won`t be any issues.

SHARPTON: No. Well, we –


SHARPTON: We certainly agree with that. But when you raise issues like
voter fraud, that have not been verified even by the Bush Justice
Department, when you have people going out to a poll watch, who have said
to reporters, they`re there to profile people, one guy said to racially
profile, you`re not talking about integrity.

EPSHTEYN: I can find a guy who says a lot of things. Right? I mean, it`s


SHARPTON: It`s not about (INAUDIBLE) these are your guys, these are your
poll watchers –


SHARPTON: – these – this is your candidate talking about voter fraud
that doesn`t exist.


EPSHTEYN: Let`s talk about voter fraud. I was on McCain campaign in 2008.

SHARPTON: All right.

EPSHTEYN: And on that campaign, we witnessed some of the following things.
In Nevada, they had to hold Dallas cowboys starting line-up registered to
vote. In Ohio, we had people being busted other states –

SHARPTON: Did you turn it in?

EPSHTEYN: Of course we turned it in.

SHARPTON: And were they found to be credible?


SHARPTON: Then why does the Justice Department even at that time report
that voter fraud is 0.0003?

EPSHTEYN: Well, it also has the – has to be the fact, would you count on
voter fraud? Voter fraud is the (INAUDIBLE)

SHARPTON: If somebody was registering people that was –


SHARPTON: The cowboys –

EPSHTEYN: Right. That`s voter fraud.

SHARPTON: That`s voter fraud.

EPSHTEYN: Yes. I`m not sure we get the statistics (INAUDIBLE) this is
what I tell you that happened in Nevada. ACORN was conducting widespread
voter fraud. In Ohio, busted from Illinois to Ohio where you could
register and vote on the same day. In Colorado, we now know there were
dead people –

SHARPTON: So, why does the data not show this? I mean, we talked about
ACORN, who in ACORN went to jail for voter fraud? Name one?

EPSHTEYN: It`s – if I to –

SHARPTON: Was this all – but you say –

EPSHTEYN: Well, hold on.

SHARPTON: – very verifiable. Verify it.

EPSHTEYN: Well, the fact that ACORN didn`t go to jail. Somebody that
ACORN didn`t go to jail –

SHARPTON: But the voter fraud is the crime.

EPSHTEYN: Means that – means that the Obama Department of Justice just
didn`t prosecute.

SHARPTON: Voter fraud is a crime.

EPSHTEYN: I agree with you. I –


SHARPTON: Yes. Well, states –


SHARPTON: States can prosecute voter fraud.

SHARPTON: Well, it`s a federal – a federal crime. (INAUDIBLE)

SHARPTON: But no (INAUDIBLE) people in New York State have gone to jail
for messing with elections.

EPSHTEYN: Great. And so, we should have more of them go to jail. In
Pennsylvania –

SHARPTON: Come on. Come on. It is bogus, Boris.

EPSHTEYN: In Pennsylvania made over 700 (INAUDIBLE)


SHARPTON: Will Trump accept the outcome of the election?

EPSHTEYN: He will win the election. And as long as this don`t –

SHARPTON: If he doesn`t win, will he accept –

EPSHTEYN: As long as –

SHARPTON: – the outcome of the election?

EPSHTEYN: As long as there is no instances that are similar to the
Clinton`s paying for violence at Trump rallies, as long as there no
instances of rigging the election.

SHARPTON: Are Clintons paying for violence at Trump rallies?

EPSHTEYN: We now right from Project Veritas. We know from the Project –

SHARPTON: Well, we know that that`s what someone alleged with WikiLeaks.

EPSHTEYN: No, no, no. That happened from the Veritas video from the
gentleman who`s been at the White House over 340 times, part of the
democrat machine is (INAUDIBLE) now fired and he was inciting violence at
Trump rallies.

SHARPTON: Oh, you`re talking about the heavily edited video. Fine. We`ve


SHARPTON: That`s a good distraction –

EPSHTEYN: That`s – no.

SHARPTON: – to use your candidate`s point, that`s a good pivot. Will he
accept the outcome of the election?

EPSHTEYN: He`s been very clear. As long as the election –

SHARPTON: As long as he wins, that`s clear.


EPSHTEYN: He said as long as the election is proper, certified, and

SHARPTON: According to him.

EPSHTEYN: Of course. No. (INAUDIBLE) he`s not – he`s not –

SHARPTON: But do you understand what it does, Boris?

EPSHTEYN: He`s not the one certified. I know how certification works.

SHARPTON: Boris, I understand you got to represent him. But do you
understand what it does to kids that watch this, do you understand we look
around the country and around the world, when you have a candidate saying
I`ll accept the outcome if I like it?


SHARPTON: I mean, we are going against everything the country is supposed
to stand.

EPSHTEYN: You should be fair, when you are taking the words out of
context. And as he said literally, I think – within that – and he said
the next sentence, and then a few sentences, he said, “Of course I`ll
accept it as long as everything is proper.” And proper doesn`t (INAUDIBLE)

SHARPTON: But he defines what is proper, though?

EPSHTEYN: Proper means verify to certify –

SHARPTON: But that`s not democracy.

EPSHTEYN: Through secretaries of state of each state and there is no
widespread voter fraud. Which we have seen to a degree in `08 and `12.

SHARPTON: The secretaries of state said there were no widespread voter
fraud. That (INAUDIBLE)


EPSHTEYN: How could they know? And the Election Day hasn`t happened yet.

SHARPTON: No, no, no. I`m talking about in the past, these are the same
secretaries of state.

EPSHTEYN: What I`m saying – well, a lot of them actually (INAUDIBLE)

SHARPTON: But you`re going to believe him if he says Trump wins.


SHARPTON: But you don`t believe when he says no voter fraud.

EPSHTEYN: That`s not – here`s what I`m saying. In –

SHARPTON: You got a tough job, Boris.

EPSHTEYN: In `08 and `12 there was voter fraud, it was not widespread, but
it was voter fraud in the following states, in Nevada –

SHARPTON: It was not widespread.

EPSHTEYN: In Pennsylvania –

SHARPTON: So, then why is your –

EPSHTEYN: In North Carolina –

SHARPTON: Then why is your candidate saying millions of people voted, for
10 years people that are dead. That`s pretty widespread.

EPSHTEYN: He said millions of people who shouldn`t be registered are and
that`s just a fact. There is (INAUDIBLE) registered in two state
(INAUDIBLE) registered.

SHARPTON: Boris, got to go.

EPSHTEYN: Thank you very much.

SHARPTON: Thank you. You only have three more weeks to keep the voter –

EPSHTEYN: (INAUDIBLE) keep the balls in the air (INAUDIBLE)

SHARPTON: Boris Epshteyn, thank you for your time this morning. Now,
let`s get some facts on voting in this election. Early voting is already
well under way in 22 states and on Monday 6 more will start welcoming
voters to the polls. So far 4.4 million people have already voted and
Election Day is still two weeks away. This week President Obama took aim
at Trump`s claim about the process.


OBAMA: There is no way to rig an election in a country this big. I don`t
know if Donald Trump`s ever been to an actual polling place, but, you know,
he doesn`t even worry if what he says is true. This is just about him
worried that he`s losing.


SHARPTON: Joining me now is Judith Browne Dianis of the Advancement
Project. Thank you for being here.


SHARPTON: So, what effect could Trump`s lies about voter fraud have over
the next two weeks, Judith?

DIANIS: Well, you know, it could – it`s going to undermine our belief in
the system. And that`s problematic because what we don`t want to happen is
to have people who decide not to vote because they think that their vote
will not count. We have been there before. The 2000 election in Florida,
right? And so, what we want to make sure is that people understand that
actually there is integrity in the system, that this voter fraud stuff is a
myth, it is a lie. And, in fact, what is – what is really funny, rev, is
that the silver lining in his candidacy is that all these years the
republicans have been crying about voter fraud, they`re throwing him under
the bus.

In fact, you`ve got Paul Ryan, you`ve got the Secretary of State of Ohio.


DIANIS: You`ve got others saying there is no such thing as voter fraud, we
have to believe in the system.

SHARPTON: Well, his representative finally said to me just now, there`s no
widespread voter fraud, which is clearly not what Trump is saying. But let
me – let me raise another disturbing issue here that I raised to his
supporter here, his spokesperson. He wants his supporters – this is he
being Trump, to be poll watchers. Here`s how one of them described it to
the Boston Globe. Quote, “It`s called racial profiling. Mexicans,
Syrians, people who can`t speak American, I`m going to go right up behind
them, I`m going to make them a little bit nervous.”

I mean, that sounds like voter intimidation, doesn`t it, Judith?

DIANIS: That`s right. And it is against the law. In fact, it`s against
the law in the Voting Rights Act of 1965. We have been here, we have done
that, and it is illegal now. And so, that`s one thing that Mr. Trump
should tell all of his followers then. In fact, if you intimidate or
threaten a voter, you can be convicted under the law. So, yes, so, I mean,
we have been here. And this is unfortunate that it has come to this. And
it`s because he continues to talk about not accepting the outcome of the
election and he`s told people to go into particular cities.

Clearly, he`s talking about profiling black people –

SHARPTON: You know, the cities that he`s referred to, I did that last week
on the show. But let me tell you another concern that I want to ask you
about is a lot of these states are now open carry states, in terms of gun
laws. Does that worry you? It does me. We talk about Trump`s poll
watches, I mean, this could be dangerous.

DIANIS: Yes. It does worry me. You know, I think we have – we have got
to be on the – on the lookout. I mean, you know, the thing is, of course,
we`re going to have poll watchers out there also to protect voters from
crazy people, from people who want to intimidate them. But, you know, in
some states they won`t allow it, some states are saying that, and some
local election officials are starting to say, we`re going to put in place
some rules around whether or not you can carry a gun into a polling place.

And so we`re going to see this play out, and I think that one of the things
we don`t want people to do is we don`t want them to be scared. There is
too much on the line in this election.

SHARPTON: All right, we`re going to be wide awake and stay woke and watch
through this to protect everybody wants to vote regardless of who they vote

DIANIS: That`s right.

SHARPTON: Judith Browne Dianis –

DIANIS: Thank you.

SHARPTON: Thank you for your time this morning. When we come back, how
Donald Trump`s rhetoric about women has back fired. And later, a closer
look at the only presidential candidate in modern history who could
possibly outtrump Trump. This is PoliticsNation, only on MSNBC.


contribution will go up as will Donald`s, assuming he can`t figure out how
to get out of it. But what we want to do is to replenish the Social
Security –

TRUMP: Such a nasty woman.

SHARPTON: Donald Trump`s nasty woman comment at the third presidential
election debate. It was just the latest in a string of anti-woman remarks
that are not going to help with his gender gap in the polls. And Hillary
Clinton mocked trump`s rhetoric at the Al Smith Dinner on Thursday.

CLINTON: People look at the Statue of Liberty and they see a proud symbol
of our history as a nation of immigrants, a beacon of hope for people
around the world. Donald looks at the Statue of Liberty and sees a 4.
Maybe a 5 if she loses the torch and tablet and changes her hair.

SHARPTON: Joining me now is Stephanie Schriock, president of EMILY`s List,
she was a guest of Clinton`s at the last debate. Thanks for being here.

having me.

SHARPTON: First, nasty woman has become a feminist rallying cry. I`ve
seen it on t-shirts and the like. Did that back fire on Trump?

SCHRIOCK: Well, it`s not surprising that another thing that Donald Trump
has said about women has back fired. You know, I was there that – in the
debate, and I have to say, I`ve heard a lot of crazy things from Donald
Trump this year. He`s offended so many people in this country. But there
was something when he called her a nasty lady, that even in my gut I could
feel it. And it`s because I think so many of us, so many of us around the
country have been in rooms with, you know, some unqualified man who wants
to belittle us.

And it was that moment that I think it didn`t matter what age you were,
that women across the country, who were already angry with Donald Trump and
his behaviour, and how he talks about women, said that`s it, I`m going to
do everything to make sure that Hillary Clinton, who stood there with grace
and with grit, we`re going to make sure she wins and that`s what`s
happened. It has been an extreme excitement, explosion of women all across
the country.

SHARPTON: How is your group using Trump`s rhetoric and statements to
mobilize women voters this year?

SCHRIOCK: Well, you know, we knew as soon as he got into this race, 18
months ago, and, of course, you know, started off right from the beginning,
calling Mexicans rapists, we knew this was going to be an extremely
unusual, if I could be kind about it, election. But Donald Trump`s words
and his actions and his bragging about sexual assault has been something
that we want to – wanted to make sure from, you know, particularly over
the summer, that every woman and frankly every man in this country knows
and so at EMILY`S list, we have communicated with women of all ages,
particularly millennial women about how he talks about women.

Because then he has policies that back up this hatred. And it`s really –
it`s really been energizing women. We, in fact, started just a few months
ago a program called Women Can Stop Trump and, of course, after the debate
this week we did – we figured we better join the choir that we are seeing
on social media and we put out a logo that says Nasty Women Can Stop Trump.
You know, it`s time for us to stand up and say enough is enough. Mistakes
are too high.

SHARPTON: Now – but Stephanie, the sexism against women is not new.
Here`s a clip. Let me show you this. Here`s a clip from John McCain town
hall back in 2007. Watch the reaction to the question about Clinton.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How do we beat the [ bleep ]?

(Multiple Speakers)

JOHN MCCAIN, U.S. SENATOR: May I give the – may I give the translation?

(Multiple Speakers)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senator, I thought he`s talking about my ex-wife.

MCCAIN: But that`s an excellent question.


SHARPTON: So, there`s a lot of anti-woman fervor down through the years,
but have you ever expected it would get like this? And in this election,
would some of the things that has come from the top of the ticket and at a
time you have five new women senate candidates this year that are running
for the U.S. Senate.

SCHRIOCK: Well, you`ve been – you have been leading the movement for
progressive change and civil rights in this country for a long time. You
know, it takes generations, generations to move forward to put racism and
sexism behind us. And we have a long, long way to go. This is one step.
It is one really big step to elect the first woman president, and, in fact,
reverend, we may actually have six, maybe seven brand-new women going to
the United States Senate.

We have got all these wonderful women stepping up to run for the House of
Representatives. Congress could look very, very different next year as
long as our sisters stand together and vote this year. But as you know
better than anybody, reverend, it`s one step in the process. It is a big
one, an important one. But we have to continue moving forward, even after
November 8th.

SHARPTON: Stephanie Schriock, thank you for your time this morning.

SCHRIOCK: Thank you, reverend.

SHARPTON: Coming up, the long fight for voting rights. And how it`s
continuing in 2016.


SHARPTON: This week, I traveled to Memphis, Tennessee. Whenever I`m in
the city, I try to stop at the motel where Dr. Martin Luther King was
assassinated in 1968. I saw the room where he spent his last night. It
made me reflect on the price we`ve paid, and the progress we`ve made.
Thanks to our civil rights leaders who came before us and remained
faithful. I also thought about the voices in this election threatening to
roll back that progress. Joining me now is one of my mentors, and who was
with Dr. King that day he was killed, and who that same year when I was 13
made me youth director of the chapter of his organization in New York.

Reverend Jesse Jackson, founder of Rainbow PUSH Coalition. Reverend
Jackson, thank you for joining us. And we recently celebrated your 75th
birthday. And wanted to talk to you about your legacy and then to now your
journey. But let me first ask you, when you hear the GOP nominee talking
about poll watches, rigged elections, and voter fraud, is that a threat to
Dr. King`s life and work and those of you that worked with him?

for allowing me to share with you today. One, to a call of what was voter
resistance based upon race, to call it rigged is a diversion. On the one
hand, to suggest that white poll watchers are going to black communities
threatening and provocative. On the other hand is to suggest that if that
same line of vote is he also resists making a commitment to honor the
winner of the campaign, that there is another agenda.

The other agenda very – may very well be a Trump America first partner and
the network. So, it kind of – then it goes in other dimensions.

SHARPTON: How dangerous is the rhetoric for Donald Trump to voters` faith
in the democratic process to which you bring now when he talks about not
conceding to a vote if he loses or not – or honoring the vote of the
American people on November 8th,whatever the result?

JACKSON: It undermines a credibility of the democratic process. Remember,
the very first debate when the (INAUDIBLE) all of them agreed (INAUDIBLE)
one except him. Then when there were two in states with Hillary Clinton,
and Nevada, he said he will not – he`d have to make up his mind about it
so that – it seem that he has an agenda beyond the agenda. He says if he
wins, he`ll accept the outcome. If he lose, he will not accept the
outcome. That is playing by two set of rules that is not very fair.

SHARPTON: How do you feel about Mr. Trump`s reaching out to some of the
black clergy and saying he`s reaching out to the black community? You have
run two of the historic races for president that, in many ways had dealt
with the black church. How do you feel about Mr. Trump now trying to go to
one or two black churches in Philly and Michigan?

JACKSON: He can`t reach out and push off at the same time when he says –
he says we want the ban on assault weapons, because they`re so very
dangerous, and background checks on guns, given the level of violence in
the country, he says he wants more guns to make us more secure. That`s
pushing off. He said it`s against affordable health care for poor people
and will not fight to raise wages for working poor people, that`s pushing
all of them in terms of policy.

Also, the crown jewel of Dr. King`s movement was to protect the right to
vote for all citizens. And when he`s against – he calls that fraud. His
urban policy is stop and frisk, law and order. And we need investment and
development. And that`s a contrast between he and Hillary Clinton, he says
stop and frisk, law and order, she says invest and develop. That is the
King (INAUDIBLE) of history.

SHARPTON: You recently, as I said, celebrated your 75th birthday and many
of us were there. What are you – as you look at your journey, what are
you most proud of and what would you say is your legacy in the things that
you have found personal pride in, in this journey to now your 75th year as
you wind down another presidential election year?

JACKSON: Well, I think, one, when I first went to jail in 1960 with seven
classmates trying to use their public library against the backdrop of my
father being a veteran of World War II, not being able to use – having to
sit behind Nazi (INAUDIBLE) on American military bases, I lost my fear of
jails and death. It freed me up to pursue the politics of conscious and
not fear. That`s the first thing happened. The second thing that happened
was the capacity (INAUDIBLE) and then with Dr. King, how can one ever
describe to having access of Dr. King (INAUDIBLE) before he was finally
killed in Memphis, Tennessee, living in the wake of his legacy.

And I think the last point would have – would have been – I was blessed
to go abroad and bring Americans home from jail in Syria, and Iraq, and
Cuba, and Yugoslavia, and (INAUDIBLE) and Liberia, those are high moments
of my life. And, of course, watching (INAUDIBLE) my age (INAUDIBLE) where
you are today. That`s a big moment too, Al.

SHARPTON: Well, thank you, Reverend Jesse Jackson and you`ve given all of
us a lot of big moments. Thank you for your time this morning.

JACKSON: Thank you, sir.

SHARPTON: Still ahead, the Trump effect on Congress. We`ll dig into the
latest numbers on some critical down ballot races that could shift the
balance of power on Capitol Hill.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To deny that you may accept the election results is
just unfathomable that you could do that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My view is we have a democratic process, we have
elections, I`ve won elections, I`ve lost elections, and I respect the
results of an election.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I believe that, first of all, as a former attorney
general, that you – he should accept the outcome and that this is


SHARPTON: Republicans reacting to Trump`s statements about the election.
Many in the GOP are starting to see the writing on the wall when it comes
to Trump`s chances in the election. A conservative group has begun airing
the first TV ad this cycle, implicitly accepting that Trump might not win.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: America`s future is far from certain. But no matter
who the next president is, New Hampshire needs a strong voice in the U.S.
Senate. That senator, Kelly Ayotte.

SHARPTON: The senate is looking grim for republicans with democrats
leading or close in most of the key seats currently held by the GOP. And
now President Obama is jumping in, campaigning for Congressional democrats,
both on the trail and on the airwaves.


BARACK OBAMA, U.S. PRESIDENT: This year the voters of Pinellas County have
an opportunity to elect a public servant who is always put the people
first, Charlie Crist. It`s about who we are as a people. Vote for Brad
Schneider and the democrats. (FOREIGN LANGUAGE) Barack Obama (FOREIGN
LANGUAGE) Patrick Murphy.


SHARPTON: Joining me now is Maria Teresa Kumar, president of Voto Latino
and Republican Strategist, Rich Galen. Thanks for being here.

MARIA TERESA KUMAR: Thanks, reverend.

SHARPTON: Rich, how much is Trump dragging down republicans like Kelly
Ayotte in New Hampshire?

RICH GALEN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, it is a little harder to tell
than it appears on the surface. Let me give you two quick examples. There
are two times in our lifetimes, you`re too young, but our life – sorry,
wasn`t supposed to do that.

KUMAR: Don`t look at me.

GALEN: Our lifetimes where a republican won 49 out of the 51
jurisdictions, 50 states plus D.C. One was Richard Nixon`s re-election in
1992, and the second was Ronald Reagan, his re-election in 1980 – 1984 –
in 1960 –

SHARPTON: Nixon`s re-election was `72 –

GALEN: `60. Yes, that`s right.

SHARPTON: Even though I don`t admit to being that much older than Maria.

GALEN: No, you`re not that – you can`t remember it either.


GALEN: But the point – the point of it is, Reverend Al is that, in both
of those cases, 49 out of the 51 states won by a republican, wave
elections, the democrats picked up a net plus two seats in the senate in
each of those elections. I think what – in the 202 area code, the 212
area code, the Acela Corridor, we forget that voters out there take this
very seriously, it`s not just a mechanical operation for them, voting is
very often a – not just an intellectual exercise, but an emotional
exercise, and I think they could tell the difference between who they vote
for president and who they vote for down the ballot.

SHARPTON: Well, Maria, I mean, President Obama is slamming republicans
like Marco Rubio for denouncing Trump`s rhetoric, but still support him on
Election Day. Watch this.


OBAMA: Marco Rubio is one of those people. How does that work? How can
you call him a con artist and dangerous, and object to all the
controversial things he says, and then say, but I`m still going to vote for
him? Come on, man.


SHARPTON: Maria, I mean, aren`t some GOP leaders trying to have it – they
kind of twisting themselves in knots here trying to justify that they`re
supporting him, but they don`t agree with him. I mean, doesn`t the
president have a point here?

KUMAR: Well, I think the president has a point. I think the American
people actually recognize that the republicans right now they`re trying to
have it both ways. Nate Silver just basically came out with a study and
found that – they came out with a poll and said that 71% of folks were
leaning on the – leaning on having the democrats actually take the senate
because of what`s happening within the Trump campaign and this is before
the last debate. So, it will be interesting to see what that – what comes
out of it.

But I think that at the end of the day, one of the reasons why Paul Ryan
will not unendorse Donald Trump but at the same time will say I can`t help
you, is that he is trying to do his darnest to hold his House together as
best he can. And I think if he would at least renounce some of the things
that Donald Trump has done, he would be much – in a much better place.
But that is also why you have so many people like Senator Ayotte coming
back and saying, “Look, I have some skin in the game, I have to basically
do this on my own because right now the Republican Party just simply
doesn`t have the leadership.”

And I mentioned that when, for example, when Chaffetz went and said that he
was going to unendorse Trump, when he was asked on national TV, who did you
call me for, you made that decision, he said no one. He didn`t call the
RNC Chair, didn`t call the party. And he said that he didn`t call the
candidate. And he didn`t call the Speaker.

SHARPTON: You know, Rich, it seems as though she mentioned Paul Ryan,
seems as though Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell are just trying to basically
stay out of it. Will that work? I mean, is that even feasible?

GALEN: It`s certainly. I think it will for Ryan. I don`t – I mean,
everybody is saying – not everybody, people are saying, well, now the
House is in play. That`s not in play. The democrats will pick up seats
without question. But it`s not going to be a democratic – Nancy Pelosi is
not moving into the Speaker suite. The Senate –

SHARPTON: But you do have some GOP lawmakers who are angry about Speaker
Ryan`s position on Trump.

GALEN: Well, that`s OK.

SHARPTON: Listen to this, Rich. I want you to react to this then.

GALEN: The – they – OK, go ahead.


MARK MEADOWS, U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: A lot of the people who believe so
desperately that we need to put Donald Trump in the White House, they
question the loyalty of the Speaker. There will be real discussions after
November 8 on who our leadership will be.


SHARPTON: So, that`s North Carolina Congressman, Meadows. So, even if the
House may not in your – in your feelings be at play, if you have these
conservative, the tea party to far right kind of members of Congress, is
that what Maria`s referring to why Ryan is sort of, like, trying to not
play in this because he doesn`t want to offend guys that he doesn`t need a
rebellion if they maintain the House that would be after Speakership
(INAUDIBLE) is this the problem?

GALEN: No, I don`t – no, I think that`s looking through – that`s looking
through the wrong end of the telescope, I think, from Ryan`s standpoint.
What he is doing and I think he`s tried to do from the beginning, got
really dicey, I think, about a month ago. But what he`s been trying to do
– the republican congress spreads across the country and what he`s
allowing people like Meadows to do is have that position without making
somebody who is running in a more – like an upstate New York, not having
them have to defend what Meadows said.

So, what Ryan has done is he`s created a kind of a bubble for each
individual member of Congress, and the democrats are doing the same thing.
But – and that`s very smart on both sides to let each person run his or
her own race without having to deal with what somebody else said.

SHARPTON: Well, do you agree with that, Maria? And doesn`t that rob a
cohesive message from those parties in a – in a critical national year?

KUMAR: Well, I`m not – I actually – yes – no. I actually – I think
that – it`s the very first time that you see a party that all of a sudden
doesn`t – that is leaderless. You have folks that are basically right now
playing roles, but they`re actually – they haven`t come forward, and said,
“No, this is actually wrong and this is – this is what the party is –

SHARPTON: There is no real collective vision.

KUMAR: There`s no collective. And –

SHARPTON: Yes. Well, like Rich said –

KUMAR: And that`s contrast that –

SHARPTON: Well, maybe I am looking at the wrong end of the telescope, I
usually look upward for a message, not downward for House.


SHARPTON: We should race to the bottom.

KUMAR: But I think – but I think – but Reverend I –

SHARPTON: Rich, Maria Teresa, stay with me.

KUMAR: OK, thank you.

SHARPTON: I`ll be back. Up next, coming attractions, Trump TV, are we
getting our first look at what the Donald will do if he loses?


SHARPTON: The 2016 ad wars have been pretty lopsided so far. Hillary
Clinton has outspent Donald Trump by nearly four times this election cycle.
Trump might be saving his cash for another project. Like Trump TV. Rumors
have been swirling for months that he might team up his new campaign boss,
the head of Breitbart, to launch some sort of media organization. And we
may have gotten a preview this week on Trump`s Facebook page. He streamed
a program before and after the debate that looked a lot like a TV news show
with a lot of love for Trump.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Those false stories about Mr. Trump received 23 times
more coverage than the real information that came out about Hillary

JUDGE JEANINE PIRRO, LEGAL ANALYST: They thought that he was on his game

KATRINA CAMPINS, BUSINESSWOMAN: What the media is portraying is not him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now we see the corruption, the fraud that is going on
and the democratic process.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He killed the (INAUDIBLE) I mean, I think killed it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He nailed every question.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I thought tonight was fantastic.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think the best moment when Donald Trump was making
a case for improving the economy for people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump`s performance tonight was one of the best
I`ve seen at a presidential debate and I`ve been at many.


SHARPTON: Let`s bring back Maria Teresa Kumar and Rich Galen. Rich, does
Trump want to be the president or does he want to be a media mogul?

GALEN: I think he wants both. But first of all, you can`t use campaign
funds for – to start a private company, so he can`t – he can`t ensure
those. In terms of starting a TV network, I have two words, Al Gore. He
tried to do it in a – ended up selling it, he made money, because he sold
the channels to Al Jazeera. But it`s a heavy, heavy lift to start a TV
network and getting people to watch day after day after day, it`s not like
radio where you set up the studio, and somebody sits down and talks, as you
know, it takes dozens of people, maybe hundreds to put this on.

SHARPTON: Yes. But, if you look at the fact, he raised $9 million off his
Facebook page during the live stream on debate night, $9 million. So,
there is a market, Maria. Could he turn some sort of Trump TV into a
viable business where you have subscribers paying on a monthly basis, if he
has a solid market out there as he – as he seems to be indicating just
with his Facebook page on debate night?

KUMAR: Right. I mean, look, he lost the presidential debate last
Thursday. But he won basically making the announcement, he`s basically
building this up and saying, “Look, am I going to concede? You`re going to
tune in.” And he – and I want to make a bet on this, I bet that it`s
because he wants him to have the largest free advertising of his
infomercial to launch this television network. And I usually think it`s a
different type of world that we live in. If you take a step back and
remember when Glenn Beck basically left Fox News and started his television
online, it`s cheap, it`s access to the million that had – I mean, there`s
websites that had 11,000 people visiting them every month, they have now 11
million people. So, there is definitely an advertise –

SHARPTON: 11 million?

KUMAR: 11 million.

SHARPTON: So, if they – is that Rich – there is an appetite. Is
(INAUDIBLE) for this?

GALEN: Oh, yes. Getting at somebody who has a subscriber based column,
getting people to actually pay is different than getting people to actually
watch and read.

SHARPTON: But do you feel that Donald Trump given all of the hype he`s
gotten, and the entertainment side of him could probably get more
subscribers than most on the far right?

GALEN: Oh, sure. And, you know, what else it does, what else it does, it
gives him – when he loses on November 8th, he gets to say, “Well, I`m glad
I did this, I thought I might win, I didn`t win, but what I really want to
do is this.”

SHARPTON: Yes. And that`s what a lot of people including me think he may
be going to and then it would be a battle between him and Fox. Not that I
would ever instigate a civil war on the right. Rich Galen, thank you Maria
Teresa Kumar, thank you both for being here. We`ll be right back.

KUMAR: Happy Sunday. Thank you.



SHARPTON: Donald Trump`s critics say he`s a demagogue with an obvious
precedent in American history. George Wallace ran for president in 1968.
He ran a racially charged campaign, attacking the polls, and the media, and
what he called a rigged system. We here at PoliticsNation have found some
striking new parallels between Wallace and trump. Watch.


GEORGE WALLACE, AMERICAN POLITICIAN: Of the Gallup Poll and the Harris
Poll and my judgment is controlled by the Eastern money interest.

TRUMP: The Washington establishment and the financial and media
corporations that fund it –

WALLACE: They want to see Mr. Nixon elected president.

TRUMP: Their agenda is to elect crooked Hillary Clinton.

WALLACE: And we`re going to return some sanity to the American
governmental stage.

TRUMP: We`re going to put sanity back into the White House.

WALLACE: We`re going to show some of these pollsters they don`t know what
they`re talking about because they`re trying to rig the election.

TRUMP: The media is trying to rig the election.


SHARPTON: The same rhetoric with the same goals, in 1968, voters rejected
Wallace. On Election Day, we`ll see what their verdict is for Donald
Trump. But as I`ve said this whole program, all of what we`re looking at
goes back and represents certain political traditions and streams in
America. And what it is stood for throughout its history. When you vote,
it`s not about who you like or who turns you on, it`s what side are you on?
And what American tradition are you wanting to continue that will best
protect you, your family, and your community.

That`s our choice. There are many streams, which one will you travel?
That does it for me. Thanks for watching. I`ll see you back here next
Sunday. And, remember to get out there and vote.


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