PoliticsNation with Al Sharpton, Transcript 4/3/2016

Ben Carson; Amanda Renteria; Michael D`Antonio; Amy Holmes; Erin McPike; John Nichols; Scott Ross

Date: April 3, 2016
Guest: Ben Carson; Amanda Renteria; Michael D`Antonio; Amy Holmes; Erin
McPike; John Nichols; Scott Ross



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump`s worst week ever.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There has to be some form of

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can he survive his abortion gaffe? And could Wisconsin
be the GOP`s turning point. Our one-on-one interview with Trump supporter,
Ben Carson.

REV. AL SHARPTON, MSNBC HOST: What are his policies that impressed you in
the areas that would make you discount what he said that are frankly are
offensive statements to many minorities?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Also, too close for comfort. Bernie Sanders closing
in. Is Hillary Clinton feeling the pressure?

campaign lying about me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We get answers from Clinton`s national political

All that, plus a big test of perhaps the worst voter I.D. law in the

And our gotcha, on Donald Trump`s ridiculous comment about how he stays

From Rockefeller center in New York, this is “Politics Nation with Al


SHARPTON: Good morning. I`m Al Sharpton. We are just two days away from
the Wisconsin primary. Potentially, the first real setback for Donald
Trump. Polls show him ten points behind Ted Cruz in the whole state of
Wisconsin. And the voting will come after one of Trump`s worst weeks. His
campaign manager was charged with battery. Stemming from an incident with
a reporter. Wisconsin governor Scott Walker endorsed Ted Cruz. An
interview with a popular local radio host turned combative.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Trump, before you called into my show, did you know
that I`m a #neverTrump guy?

TRUMP: That I didn`t know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Because I thought it was interesting, and people
were wondering, does Donald Trump know what Charlie Sykes has said about
him in the past?



SHARPTON: And then, there was the interview with MSNBC`s Chris Matthews.
Trump`s gaffe on abortion caused anger on both the right, and left. While
his comments about nuclear weapons sparked fresh scrutiny of his foreign
policy agenda.


CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC ANCHOR: Do you believe in punishment for abortion?
Yes or no as a principle?

TRUMP: The answer is that there has to be some form of punishment.

MATTHEWS: For the woman?

TRUMP: Yes, there has to be some form?

MATTHEWS: You might use it in Europe?

TRUMP: No, I don`t think so –

MATTHEWS: I`ve never –

TRUMP: I am not taking cards off the table.


SHARPTON: The question for Trump 48 hours ahead of Wisconsin, will it be a
bump on the road to the nomination, or the beginning of the end?

Joining me now is Dr. Ben Carson, former presidential candidate, and former
Trump rival, who has since endorsed him for president.

Thanks for being here, Dr. Carson.

with you.

SHARPTON: Wisconsin is only a couple of days off. Is that the last chance
for the establishment to stop Donald Trump?

CARSON: No. Because, I think anything can happen, you know, during the
political season. So, all kinds of disasters can happen. All kinds of
wonderful things can happen. And as you`ve noticed, with each one of these
contests, all the pundits say, oh, well this is the big one. This will
determine. And then they say that with the next one, too. I think they
just want to keep the drama going.

SHARPTON: What if Donald Trump comes in to the Republican convention with
the most delegates, but not enough to clinch the nomination, the number
that he needs? Will you, Ben Carson, Dr. Ben Carson, will you support
whomever is put forward as the nominee? Let`s say what if Paul Ryan, who
wasn`t even among those running this year, is selected at a brokered
convention. Would you support him or anyone that the convention might

CARSON: I would certainly hope that that doesn`t happen. Because if that
does happen, the party will be so fractured that it will guarantee that the
Democrats will win. And I`m hoping that cooler heads will prevail. But
obviously whoever the nominee is should be supported.

SHARPTON: And you will support whoever that nominee would be?

CARSON: I would support the nominee, as opposed to, you know, whoever was
running on the other side, unless they come up with somebody different than
the two that we see now.

SHARPTON: Let me ask you this. A lot of people raised the question, how
can you support Donald Trump, when he has said some things about you that
are very, very troublesome to some of your supporters. Let me give you an
example of some of the things he said about you, Dr. Carson.


TRUMP: Carson is lower energy than Bush! I mean, Seventh Day Adventists I
don`t know about. I just don`t know about. But it moves this way. It
moves this way. It moves that way. We are going to put somebody in office
who considers himself to have pathological disease.


SHARPTON: Now, putting aside the personal stuff, is that the kind of
person that has the temperament to be commander in-chief?

CARSON: I think probably as much so as anybody else. But recognize that
he`s – he knows how to play to an audience. He has a long history of
showmanship. And that`s what he was doing. And he has admitted that
that`s the case. Is that the way that I would conduct myself? Absolutely
not. But you know, we`re all different. And what you have to ask yourself
is, did it work? Did the things that he – that he did work? They did.
And I don`t know if that`s saying something about him or is that saying
something about us as a society?

SHARPTON: You know you`re Dr. Ben Carson. You have a lot of respect by a
lot of people that may even disagree with your views, your positions, even
your candidacy for president this year. I remember when you came to the
national action network convention you were respected. But – and that was
among minorities, a lot of hour conventioneers are minorities. Donald
Trump has said some very troubling things about minorities. Let me give
you an example.


TRUMP: They`re bringing drugs. They`re bringing crime. They`re rapists.

Total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States.

I don`t know anything about David duke. I don`t know what group you`re
talking about. You wouldn`t want me to condemn a group that I know nothing
about. I would have to look.


SHARPTON: Aren`t those kind of statement statements a disqualifier for you
endorsing Donald Trump?

CARSON: Not at all. Because, he is explained himself on all of those
things. Now if you just take them by themselves without his explanation,
then they seem, you know, like they would condemn him. But that seems to
be a problem. We like to take things in isolation without looking at the

SHARPTON: Well what do you think is the totality that he offers people of
color, Mexicans, Muslims? What are the policies that if we were to say
those statements were just showmanship, what are the policies that make you
say that you can overlook those statements?

CARSON: I don`t overlook them. But I do take them all in to
consideration. I look at a person`s life. You know, Donald Trump has
hired thousands of people. Has a very large network. I`ve met a lot of
people. It`s very hard to find any of his employees have anything bad to
say about him or his former employees. That says a lot about a person.

When he moved down to Palm Beach, you know, the private clubs, were largely
excluding Jews and blacks. He became a warrior, and he fought for their
inclusion. You know, these are stories that you don`t really hear about
very often. I think – and then, one of the things that impresses me the
most is, you look at his children. His children are very well-mannered, as
respectful, not spoiled like you see so often children who are raised in
families of wealth. That says a lot about a person.

SHARPTON: But what are his policies, though? Among those minority groups
that he has said these statements that you say we shouldn`t just judge him
by the statements. What are the policies? He may have fought for people
to be included as members of his golf clubs, but what are his policies that
impressed you in the areas that would make you discount what he said that
are frankly offensive statements to many minorities?

CARSON: His policies are treating everybody the same. He`s coming very
rapidly to understand that that the downtrodden in our society, the
minorities are largely having a difficult time because of education, lack
of education, and lack of educational opportunities.

And you know, he`s going to be advocating things like voucher programs
which will allow school choice, which is critical particularly in our inner
cities. I know in New York City, you know, the mayor there doesn`t like
the idea of school choice, but the fact of the matter is it makes the
biggest difference and it doesn`t matter what your background is, if you
get a good education you write your own ticket and you become part of the
strength and fabric of this country. This is something that you`re going
to see him advocating very strongly.

SHARPTON: All right. Let me ask this. You`ve said that President Obama
was raised white. And that he – you really questioned whether he
understand the black experience of – what would make you say something
like that?

CARSON: First of all, what I said, and what many people in the media said
I said are two completely different things. I said that the experience
that he had being raised is not the typical black experience. He was
raised by white grandparents in an affluent area of Hawaii, spent his
formative years in Indonesia, raised by a white mother there. Those are
not typical black experiences. No one can prove to me that that`s a
typical black experience. The rest of it was stuff that you people in the
media added and said, Carson said this and Carson said that. You know,
that`s what you wish that I had said. But I didn`t say that.

SHARPTON: Well that`s why I`m asking you. So you`re not saying that he
did understand the black experience, because you could be raised by whites
and it could even show you even more of the racial imbalance, that`s very

CARSON: Of course.

SHARPTON: All right.

CARSON: Of course that`s true. And I also then say that being raised
white is a bad thing. All the things that people threw on and tried to say
that I said I didn`t say those things. And it`s so typical, and I wish
there would be more honesty and I appreciate you clarifying that.

SHARPTON: All right. Thank you, Dr. Ben Carson. Thank you for your time
this morning.

CARSON: Always a pleasure. Thank you so much.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up, digging into the democratic contest with a
Clinton campaign`s national political director.

And later, the fight against Wisconsin`s controversial voter ID law in
place for the first time this week.



CLINTON: I do not have – I have money from people that – I am so sick –
I am so sick of the Sanders campaign lying about me. I`m sick of it.


SHARPTON: Ahead of the Wisconsin primary, tensions are running high in the
Democratic nomination fight. A new poll shows Bernie Sanders leading
Hillary Clinton in the state 49 to 45 percent. In recent days, the
candidates have sparred on several fronts. Even Donald Trump`s comments on
abortion led to a skirmish between the Democrats.


SANDERS: Any stupid, absurd remark made by Donald Trump becomes the story
of the week. Maybe, just maybe, we might want to have a serious discussion
about the serious issues facing America.

CLINTON: Senator Sanders agreed that Donald Trump`s comments were
shameful. But then he said they were a distraction from, and I quote, “a
serious discussion about the serious issues facing America.” To me this is
a serious issue.


SHARPTON: Sanders responded, saying, Clinton took his comments out of

Joining me now is Amanda Renteria, national political director for Hillary
for America. Thank you for being here.

Thank you for having me.

SHARPTON: Did you ever – I`ve got to ask this first, do you ever feel
that at this date it would still be this tense, and this close in a primary

RENTERIA: I got to say, I think there`s a lot of things we`re surprised
about in this election cycle, given what`s happened on the other side.
But, at the end of the day, we knew that every presidential is tough and
you`ve got to earn every sing the vote. And so, the way the Democratic
process works, and the delegate counts work is going to be awhile. And so
we`re going to keep working through it.

SHARPTON: All right. According to polls right now, Sanders is slightly
ahead in Wisconsin. How do you feel about your candidate?

RENTERIA: I think my candidate is doing a fantastic job and we`re
incredibly excited about what we have going forward. Wisconsin is going to
be tough, though. And we know that. When you look at the demographics of
Wisconsin, it`s not quite where the Democratic Party is as Democratic Party
as a whole. And we`ve always from the very beginning tried to build a
coalition that was really reflective of America, reflective of a Democratic
Party. And so, Wisconsin a little bit tougher. But we`re going to try and
win every single vote we can. And she`s there campaigning and we`re going
to keep pushing until the very last vote is cast.

SHARPTON: Now, all right Wisconsin you say is going to be tough. New York
is the next one.


SHARPTON: Are you confident that your candidate will win big in New York?

RENTERIA: We feel fantastic here. I mean, this is home. Our
headquarters, people are back, she`s campaigning again. And right here in
her home state. And I got to tell you, there`s just an incredible energy
as we have kicked it off, a lot more here, she`s been here, and the
president has been here. Chelsea has been here. And really kind of coming
back to her roots, and all the different communities. And so it`s been
good to go through the history of what she`s done for the state of New

SHARPTON: This week senator Sanders told my colleague Rachel Maddow that
they`re working on getting some of the Superdelegates to come his way.
Watch this.


SANDERS: What I do believe is that there are a lot of Republican – a lot
of Superdelegates, who have signed on to Hillary Clinton a long, long time
ago. And then you have other Superdelegates who are in states, where we
have won by 20, 30, 40 points. And the people in those states are saying,
you know what? We voted for Bernie Sanders by 30 or 40 points. You got to
support him at the convention.


SHARPTON: Are you worried about some of the Superdelegates changing their
allegiance to Sanders if he builds momentum?

RENTERIA: I think this contest at the very beginning has been about pledge
delegates. And I think what you`re going to see is a coalition around
pledge delegates. And we`ve known that that`s always been the case. No
convention has ever been overturned by Superdelegates and we don`t expect
that to happen now. What we expect is to continue to win the pledge
delegates. We`re up by 200. We`re feeling pretty good about that and
we`re up by 2.5 million votes over Sanders.

SHARPTON: Well, I think that I`ve got to raise this question, if she
doesn`t succeed in Wisconsin, is New York and California, Pennsylvania,

RENTERIA: I think when you look at the delegate map you can still win
without winning those contests. But we want to win big in these states.
And so we are going to work really hard, and truthfully, it feels really
good here on the ground. So I feel incredibly confident about what the
calendar looks like, what the map looks like, especially in states where
we`ve done the hard work to build the coalitions you need. Not simply for
the – not simply for the primary but really going forward.

SHARPTON: Amanda Renteria, thank you for your time. We should note
“Politics Nation” reached out to the Bernie Sanders campaign for today`s
show, it didn`t work out. But we look forward to having them on in the

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ahead, Donald Trump`s comments on abortion raise the
question, just what does he believe? One-on-one with a Pulitzer Prize
winning reporter who wrote the book on Trump.



TRUMP: I want to show off. You know what a good athlete I am? You know,
a lot about the world of sports, believe me. We like to win. We know how
to close deals. I close. I`m a closer. Even in sports I`ve always been a
closer. I win. I win club championships.


SHARPTON: It`s Donald Trump the athlete. We have seen other political
figures go public with their exercise routines. Like the first lady who
gave out tips in her “let`s move” campaign. Or speaker Paul Ryan, who
pumped iron on camera. But “People” magazine wanted to know what about
Trump? Does he work out on the trail? He said quote “don`t have to when
you`re making speeches for 25,000 people and shouting and screaming and
having fun with everybody, and making America great again. You get a lot
of exercise.”

You get a lot of exercise by making America great again. Really? Burning
calories with comments like this?


TRUMP: They`re bringing drugs. They`re bringing crime. They`re rapists.
Total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States.

Get out of here! Get out of here! Look at these people.

You are a loser. You really are a loser.


SHARPTON: This workout is as real as his plan to make Mexico pay for the
wall. Nice try. But until Trump shapes up and gets over these empty
calories, we gotcha.



TRUMP: I`m very pro-choice. I am pro-choice in every respect, and as far
as it goes. I am against, I am pro-life, yes.

MATTHEW: Do you believe in punishment for abortion? Yes or no as a

TRUMP: The answer is that there has to be some form of punishment.

MATTHEWS: For the woman?



SHARPTON: Donald Trump on abortion, then and now. He walked back those
last comments, and said, doctors, not women, should be punished if abortion
were made illegal. But by then he would already sparked a backlash,
drawing criticism from both Democrats, and Republicans. And reviving old
questions about just where he stands on abortion, and other issues.


TRUMP: When it comes to being conservative, I happen to be conservative.

In many cases I probably identify more as a Democrat.

Liberal on healthcare. We have to take care of people that are sick.

We`re getting rid of Obamacare, by the way.

Hillary Clinton I think is a terrific woman. I mean I`m a little biased
because I`ve known her for years. I think she does a good job. And I like

I told you, she`s like a snake with no energy. No, no, she`s like a snake.


SHARPTON: Joining me now is Pulitzer Prize winning reporter Michael
D`Antonio. He`s author of “Never enough, Donald Trump and the pursuit of
success.” Thanks for being here.


SHARPTON: Trump`s comments on abortion and then the quick walk-back, what
do you make about that?

D`ANTONIO: Well, he says everything, doesn`t he? You know, I think
sometimes he starts talking before the brain is engaged, and then he`s
vamping for time. And I think Chris trapped him. It was set for him in
the beginning of that sequence of questions, and he just fell right into

SHARPTON: Then he also defended his campaign manager was charged this week
with battery. And he said that he can`t destroy a man. Are you surprised?

D`ANTONIO: You know, this is a funny thing. Donald once told me a story
about Johnny Carson complaining that two workers in his building stole his
coat. Now, Trump didn`t believe it. And yet he brought these two guys in,
and he said you`re fired. And he told me the story as if it was, of course
I fired them. A celebrity asked me to fire them.

Well, now, it`s a powerful fella, Corey Lewandowski who is running his
campaign and now he`s going to worry about the fellow`s family. What about
those two working-class guys who worked in his building and he fired like

SHARPTON: He`s also now backing off his pledge to support the eventual GOP
nominee. Are you surprised?

D`ANTONIO: No. No. You know, I almost wonder if Trump is trying to lose
it now. I think –

SHARPTON: What do you mean?

D`ANTONIO: Well, think about President Obama`s performance at the nuclear
security summit. Sober, serious, 50 nations gathered in Washington. He
knew his stuff. Can you imagine Donald Trump handling that summit? He

SHARPTON: So when you say he`s trying to lose it, he`s not even trying to
– to rise up to being presidential, or –

D`ANTONIO: I don`t –

SHARPTON: Or coming off as serious?

D`ANTONIO: He may have deep in his heart, or his subconscious, a part of
him that is afraid. That whoa, I might actually win this thing. And, you
know, he`s not stupid. He knows what he`s capable of. This is a fellow
who couldn`t manage a casino. He couldn`t manage an airline. He`s great
at making deals but he`s terrible at operating complex institutions. So I
think he might be panicking. It certainly –

SHARPTON: You wrote the book on him. You spent time with him, you really
studied him. So you think he has a deep fear of the responsibility? He
likes the magic of the media, and the run, but he may not really want to
win. Is that what you`re saying?

D`ANTONIO: I think the thing that would delight him is to get to the
convention, have it taken away from him, and then he can scream about it
for the next ten years. He is not serious about running the United States
of America. I don`t believe it.

SHARPTON: What would his reaction be if he gets to the convention and they
deny him the nomination?

D`ANTONIO: He`ll go ballistic. But you know, this is part of the Donald
Trump shtick. This guy is like a borscht belt comedian. He wants
attention. He is delivering one liners. But is he coherent? Does he ever
speak in a really well formed sentence, let alone a paragraph. He can`t.

SHARPTON: If he wins the nomination, can he tone it down for the general

D`ANTONIO: Well, he`ll be surrounded by the Republican establishment.
They`ll try to get him to tone it down. I think he can tone it down but
I`m not sure that he can get smarter. You know, this is not a guy who is
going to learn all these issues that he doesn`t know in the space of a few

SHARPTON: Michael D`Antonio thank you for your time this morning.

D`ANTONIO: Thank you, Reverend.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Still ahead, will Wisconsin`s primary derail Donald
Trump? Our political panel weighs in.



about you but I`m ready to do my part in making sure that we together help
save this country and make Barack Obama a one-term president. Are you with

So with that would you all please welcome governor Mitt Romney?

you Mr. Chairman, thank you.


SHARPTON: Four years ago this month, Mitt Romney was wrapping up his
primary campaign and holding meetings with the RNC. Four years later,
Donald Trump is holding very different meetings with the RNC trying to find
common ground.

On the Democratic side four years ago, President Barack Obama was gearing
up for his re-election campaign. Today, it`s a drawn out fight between
Clinton and Sanders, going longer than anyone expected. Now a potential
pivot point for both sides. The Wisconsin primary is just two days away.

Joining me now is our panel, John Nichols from “the Nation,” political
reporter Erin McPike, and Amy Holmes of “the blaze.” Thank you all for
being here.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you reverend.


SHARPTON: Let me go to you, Erin, first. Did Trump do real damage with
all of the occurrences this week from his statement about women being
punished for abortion, to his nuclear statement, and the arrest of his
campaign manager, or the charging of his campaign manager, I should say?

ERIN MCPIKE, POLITICAL REPORTER: The short answer is yes, absolutely he
did real damage to himself. Whether or not it hurts his chances of
ultimately becoming the Republican nominee, I think that`s too early to
see. Of course, it looks like Ted Cruz might win Wisconsin on Tuesday.
But as far as the general election is concerned, yes, he did do real
damage. And you will hear plenty of Democrats, and even many Republicans,
say that if Donald Trump is the nominee, that Hillary Clinton will win in a
landslide. I`m not sure that that was true until potentially this week.
Because I do think he did a great deal of damage to himself with women,
independents, he wasn`t doing too well with them in the first place. But
he turned a lot of people off in the last two weeks. There`s no question
about it.

SHARPTON: Well, let`s get your perspective, Amy, as a Republican – well
you`re not a Republican.

AMY HOLMES, THE BLAZE: A conservative, yes.

SHARPTON: That is as a conservative. Has he done damage in terms of
conservatives through this primary season?

HOLMES: Most certainly. And leading in to his town hall this week, and
then the remarks about women needing to be punished if they, you know,
acquired an abortion, Donald Trump already had half of Republican women in
a poll by this very network, NBC, half of Republican women saying that they
could never imagine voting for Donald Trump. This week certainly hurt him
in that group, as well. And you saw a lot of conservatives after,
particularly the abortion comment, a lot of pro-life conservatives saying
that has never been our position. And in fact hurts the pro-life movement,
and you`ve seen the Democrats and liberals really jumping on it, and you
know, using this to bash the Republican Party.

SHARPTON: John, if you go to the new polling, it shows that Trump`s
unfavorable ratings above 50 percent among everyone, from white men, to
conservatives, to young voters, African-Americans, and Hispanics. That`s
not a good sign if he is, in fact, the nominee.

NICHOLS: No, it is not a good sign, Reverend. And it`s especially not a
good sign in Wisconsin, where he`ll be facing the voters in two days.

SHARPTON: Give me your perspective from about Trump in Wisconsin. Because
they don`t seem to be warming up to him.

NICHOLS: They are not. It`s a very interesting dynamic. Trump always
under polled in Wisconsin. There`s evidence that he`s always under polled
in quite a bit of the upper Midwest, in places like Minnesota, as well.
And I don`t want to try and psycho analyze too much but I think there is a
little something to that notion of Midwestern nice.

You and I have walked around the streets of downtown Madison in the past,
and I think everybody`s pretty nice. And the fact of the matter is,
Trump`s style was never a good fit with Wisconsin. It has also been hit
very, very hard by the developments of the last week, which our friends
here on the panel have well commented on.

And there`s another element, as well. In Wisconsin, the Republican
establishment is very large. It includes talk radio. It includes a lot of
legislators. Obviously it includes Governor Scott Walker. And that whole
Republican establishment, in a much more coordinated way than in other
states, is quite united against Trump. So, I think he faces his biggest

HOLMES: Well, to both of those points, Reverend, you saw, of course, Scott
Walker the governor of Wisconsin endorsing Donald Trump`s primary rival Ted
Cruz. And in the town hall this week, Wisconsin voter who said that she
was actually supporter of Trump, but asked him why can`t you be more like
your son? Why can`t you be more presidential? Calm. And I think more

SHARPTON: It`s not presidential. Help me out with this, Amy, since you`re
our conservative this morning. What is his policies, what is he trying to
present? I asked Dr. Ben Carson earlier in the show which of the policies
that he, for example, spoke to minority voters, since he said things that I
and others have said are offensive. Let me show you what Carson said.

HOLMES: All right.


CARSON: He`s going to be advocating things like voucher programs which
will allow school choice, which is critical, particular in our inner
cities. Now it doesn`t matter what your background is. If you get a good
education, you write your own ticket, and you become part of the strength
and fabric of this country. This is something that you`re going to see him
advocating very strongly.


SHARPTON: So if we are talking about how we deal with joblessness, and
African-American community double to that of whites, if we`re talking about
the need to deal with gun violence. If we`re talking about dealing with
criminal justice, mass incarceration, police – vouchers is the program
that Mr. Trump is offering minorities, Mexicans, vouchers, Muslims, he`s
offended, vouchers?

HOLMES: Well, I agree with Dr. Carson that I believe education is a civil
rights issue of the 21st century.

SHARPTON: There`s no doubt about that.

HOLMES: And I do actually happen to agree with school choice to allow
parents to send their kids to succeeding schools to get them out of failing
schools. But I`m not sure if Donald Trump is really speaking to that. I
think that`s a lot of wishful thinking. And if you listen to his answers
just this last week about what is the role of federal government. First he
said security, security, security. A lot of Americans, whatever their
ideological stripe, would agree with that.

But then he went on and he elaborated to say that the federal government
top priority should be education, and then communities, and so forth. That
a lot of conservatives would say, hey, wait a minute, don`t you believe in
the federal versus – federal versus state responsibility?

SHARPTON: He took the opposite –

HOLMES: A local responsibility? He clearly has not study conservatism.

SHARPTON: I think that my point, Erin, is that he doesn`t seem to really
have policies not only for minorities, but clearly I think Dr. Carson was
bringing up something that even Trump hasn`t. That`s not at all a broad
program for minorities. Is it the real issue that there is no real issue
that Trump has really trumpeted as far as many people that are looking to
say, OK, don`t judge him by the sound bites, when you don`t have much else
to judge by.

MCPIKE: Well, that`s right. And he sticks to very absolutist policies.
He is talking about building a wall, when it comes to immigration. When it
comes to trade, he just wants to, by and large, shut down free trade. It`s
a lot of very blanket statements that makes it hard to understand the
nuances of policy that he believes, if there are any nuances there at all.
And I`m not sure that there are. We`re seeing that if he does these
editorial board meetings, as he did with “the Washington Post” on foreign
policy a week or two ago, and really didn`t show a whole lot of depth
there. So these really blanket statements are going to have to change in
the next couple of months.

SHARPTON: John, on the Democratic side, what – how is the feeling, what
are you feeling on the ground in Wisconsin on the race between Secretary
Clinton and senator Sanders?

NICHOLS: It`s very interesting race. I have covered a lot of politics in
Wisconsin going back for many decades. And rarely have I seen a race where
people generally like both the candidates. There`s a lot of good feeling
for Hillary Clinton, and Bernie Sanders.

Right now, Bernie Sanders has according to the polls a little bit of a
lead. And that`s not overly surprising. Both he and Hillary Clinton have
spent a lot of time in the state over the years. They have a lot of
friends. Both of them have attracted a lot of important endorsements.

On Monday, I saw Hillary Clinton give what I thought was one of the best
speeches of her campaign, a fabulous speech on the Supreme Court at the
University of Wisconsin. And also, at several points over the last few
days, I have seen Bernie Sanders give some of the best stump speeches of
his campaign. So it`s been a really good race, very, very strong.

My sense is that at this point Sanders has got a bit of an advantage, but,
you know, it`s not – I wouldn`t suggest to you that it`s one of those
situations where anybody`s a sure bet. I do think Sanders probably a
little ahead.

SHARPTON: John Nichols, Erin McPike and Amy Holmes thank you for your time
this morning. Have a great Sunday.

HOLMES: Thank you.

MCPIKE: Thanks, you, too.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Still to come, Wisconsin`s controversial voter I.D. law
in place for the first time this week. The man fighting back with the high
profile lawsuit next.


SHARPTON: The Wisconsin primary will be the first big test of the state`s
controversial voter I.D. law. And Governor Scott Walker was out defending
the law this past week.


GOV. SCOTT WALKER (R), WISCONSIN: We make it easy to vote but we make it
hard to cheat. In our state you need a driver`s license. You can get a
state-issued I.D. card for free at our DMV offices. You can vote same day
as voter registration. You just have to have that voter I.D. along with.
But we also make it hard to cheat.


SHARPTON: But the truth is voter I.D. makes it harder to vote. And now,
activists have filed a federal lawsuit, claiming the law stops legal voters
from getting the I.D. they need. One woman was unable to sign the
paperwork because he lost the use of her hands. She had given her daughter
power of attorney to sign on her behalf. But the DMV didn`t allow it.

The DMV also turned away a senior citizen who was born in a German
concentration camp, and didn`t have a birth certificate. The fight for
voting rights is well under way. Last month, voters in Arizona primary
faced endless lines, after the state cut polling places, allegedly to save

Joining me now is Scott Ross, executive director of One Wisconsin Now. One
of the groups behind that lawsuit. Thanks for being here, Scott.


SHARPTON: What`s the response to these examples that you`ve brought
forward in your lawsuit?

ROSS: Well, I mean, I just get a chill up my spine when I heard you
retelling them. Because what Governor Walker and the Republicans have done
is they have taken the sacred right of the franchise, and they have
attempted to manipulate the process for political gains, so that they can
gain partisan advantage. It is despicable, and it is disgraceful. What
they have done to voter rights in the state of Wisconsin. Everything from
the voter I.D. law, which we have 300,000 people that don`t have the
necessary I.D. They have all but eviscerated early voting hours, including
ending soles to the polls by ending and banning weekend early voting. It`s
been terrible here in the state of Wisconsin.

SHARPTON: So you say that they could potentially disenfranchise 300,000
voters over this law in Wisconsin?

ROSS: Absolutely. And the thing is, the people who don`t have photo I.D.
are predominantly younger African-American and Latino voters and senior
citizens. So they are trying to deny both ends of the age spectrum,
essentially. And certainly they`re trying to deny access for people of

And there was a – there was an analysis done of a lot of the people who
tried to get those free I.D.s that governor Walker talked about that are
apparently so easy to get. And 84 percent of the respondents for those
were African-Americans, Latinos, and only one of them was able to get the
free I.D. Consequently, the 16 percent of whites were all able to get the

SHARPTON: So, the racial difference in terms of who are the ones that are
denied, is also an aspect of what is being raised by you and other
activists, and activist groups in Wisconsin?

ROSS: Without a doubt. But let me just say that the governor Walker is a
– in his discrimination against voters he is all-encompassing. I mean, if
you`re a student who wants to use their I.D. you are subjected to laws, and
requirements that are unlike any other voting registration here in the
state of Wisconsin.

It`s just, you know, they are – they are relentless. Governor Walker
thinks that certain people shouldn`t be able to vote in the state of
Wisconsin. Most likely because Governor Walker`s party has been unable to
win Wisconsin`s elector el college vote since 1984. And Governor Walker is
trying to deliver the state of Wisconsin to his Republican allies.

But the thing is, we`ve already seen, even though they put these
restrictions on early voting that the amount of people who have already
early voted in the state of Wisconsin, is double the number of people who
early voted in the 2012 presidential primaries.

SHARPTON: How do you explain that? Is it that people are saying I`m not
going to be robbed of my right to vote? I`m not going to be denied my
right to vote? Is that energized people to come out and vote in the early
voting, as you say, double and may even backfire at the polls?

ROSS: I think that`s exactly what it is Reverend Al. The people are
rising up because they are saying enough is enough when it comes to this
unprecedented attack on voter rights. That are top to bottom since
governor Walker oozed into the governor`s office January 4th, 2009 – 2011.

SHARPTON: Is there any way that this can impact this Tuesday`s election,
or is the concern the general election?

ROSS: Well, I think what`s going to happen is, is that our case will be in
court in May. And so we`ll see what, you know, what the judge determines
in such. But we will be continuing to be vigilant. We have people on the
streets who will be taking information about who is denied their ability to
get their I.D. card, to be able to vote on Election Day. And we`ll be
getting those cases and putting that, again, more in to the case to make
our case even stronger when it comes to going into court to try and end
this systematic attack on the right to vote here in the state of Wisconsin.

SHARPTON: Because one of the troubling things is with all of the theatrics
that we`re seeing around the presidential primaries, this is a central
issue that should concern all Americans, and that is the right to vote and
any impediments that would in any way hinder legitimate voters from being
able to exercise their rights.

ROSS: Well, absolutely. And here in the state of Wisconsin, I mean, we
care about it so much that it`s actually written in to the right to the
franchise is written in article 3, section 1, of the Wisconsin
constitution, that is how strongly the state of Wisconsin believes. And
we`re number two in turnout for presidential elections. Governor Walker is
trying to stop that. He wants to derail it. But it`s very clear the
people are rising up. The people are going out and they`re going to
exercise their right to vote.

I just say, you know, one example that you didn`t bring up that we`ve found
was that there was a woman who Walker`s department of health services says
is dead. She showed up at the polls and they said no, you`re dead. The
Social Security administration says she`s alive.

SHARPTON: That`s un-bleachable. But we`re going to sky on this. Scott
Ross, thank you for your time.

ROSS: Thank you.

SHARPTON: That does it for me. Thanks for watching.

And a quick note, my group the National Action Network is holding our
annual convention later this month from April 13th through the 16th here in
New York. Both Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders will be speaking. For
more information, go to the Web site nationalactionnetwork.net.

I`ll see you back here next Sunday.



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