PoliticsNation with Al Sharpton, Transcript 12/6/2015

Praz Michel; McKay Coppins; Yamiche Alcindor; Susan Del Percio

Date: December 6, 2015
Guest: Praz Michel; McKay Coppins; Yamiche Alcindor; Susan Del Percio



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Terror, mass shootings, gun violence, and the politics
of fear, how America should and should not respond?

Also, panic time in the GOP, Donald Trump jumps to his biggest lead yet.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It seems every time there is a
tragedy my poll numbers go up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How will Republican leaders try to dump Trump and are
some in denial about him and about next year?

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I will take it to Hillary Clinton
and I will whoop her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Plus, new questions about the police shooting of a
Chicago teenager. We`ll talk to the men who got this tape released.

And before there was Donald Trump, there was sweet Micky, our interview
with the co-founder of the Fujis about his new film covering one of the
most bizarre elections the world has ever seen.

From Rockefeller center in New York City this is “Politics Nation with Al


REV. AL SHARPTON, MSNBC HOST: Good morning. I`m Al Sharpton.

Once again, America is facing the question of how to respond to acts of
terror without giving in to fear.

The California terrorist pledged allegiance to ISIS before the horrific
shooting rampage this past week. And while authorities continue
investigating, the political debate is heating up with some pointed
comments aimed at the president.


SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We cannot defeat radical
Islamic terrorism so long as the president is unwilling to utter the words
radical Islamic terrorism.

TRUMP: Radical Islamic terrorism. And I`ll tell you what, we have a
president that refuses to use the term. He refuses to say it. There`s
something going on with him that we don`t know about.


SHARPTON: Ted Cruz speaking at a gun event held two days after the


CRUZ: Folks in the media ask at the behest of Democrats, isn`t it
insensitive for us to do a second amendment rally following this terror
attack? Let me tell you something. I really don`t view our job as being
sensitive to Islamic terrorists.


SHARPTON: And on talk radio, the rhetoric goes even farther.


RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: The left knows it is responsible for
this. The left knows that it is as guilty as those pulling the trigger
here and they are doing everything they can to transfer that guilt and
cover it up.


SHARPTON: This kind of talk is over the top, and getting in the way of
real policy debates. We need to have real policy debates in this country.

What should be done about ISIS overseas? How should the government monitor
people who could be planning terror attacks here at home? Should the
government make it harder for would-be terrorists to buy an assault rifle?
Why are people on the terror watch list allowed to buy guns?


fly in America, you are too dangerous to buy a gun in America.

REP. PAUL RYAN (R-WI), HOUSE SPEAKER: There are people who are arbitrarily
placed on this thing, sometimes people put in there by mistake and we would
deprive them of their constitutionally protected due process rights.


SHARPTON: How do we protect the country without demonizing innocent
Muslims who are just as horrified by this violence as anyone else or why do
some people seem to have separate standards for what should be called an
act of terror?

I am with McKay Coppins from BuzzFeed. His new book about the GOP 2016
fight is called “the Wilderness.” And Yamiche Alcindor of “The New York
Times” and Republican Strategist Susan Del Percio.

Let me ask at the outset. Let me go to you, McKay, you not only BuzzFeed
but you have written a book on this Republican primary. The climate of
fear now is the worst since 9/11 and the responses of a lot of the
Republican candidates, people fear has only reinforced that fear. How do
you see that? How do you accept it as one that has studied this primary
and now you put Colorado and now San Bernardino within five days on top of
that landscape?

MCKAY COPPINS, BUZZFEED: Yes, I think that what`s fascinating and
troubling to a lot in the kind of mainstream shrinking mainstream
establishment of the Republican party is that people like Donald Trump when
they use tragedies and terror attacks like this to fan the flames of
Islamaphobia or xenophobia, when they do that, we have seen that
increasingly it`s not just – even conspiracy theories aren`t just catering
to far right fringe anymore.

People like Donald Trump with a big mega phone are able to attract vast
portions of the Republican electorate around, kind of rally around it and
they are bringing and politicians like this are now bringing along some
Republican voters.

SHARPTON: I am going to get to Trump and the candidates specifically later
in the show, but you know, Susan, and I always go to you as our Republican
expert, how has it affected the GOP in terms of the vote is what I`m
saying? Because you have this fear, you have this really deeply placed
sense of almost panic in some areas of the country, how has this impacted
the GOP voting in the primary?

SUSAN DEL PERCIO, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: We know you`re right. People are
scared. We saw the largest amount of background checks for gun sales this
past black Friday. People are going to get guns. They feel they need to
protect themselves. People are scared, you know. When it comes to –

SHARPTON: I think it was over 180,000, I mean this is record gun sales on
black Friday.

DEL PERCIO: That`s right. Now, what does that mean when it comes to the
Republican Party? It means that people who are yelling on this are trying
- are going to garner more support. That`s what people want in the
Republican primary right now. They want to hear someone who is going to
say I`ll go after the terrorists and let you keep your guns.

When it comes to the general election, whoever comes out of the Republican
primary is going to have to mainstream themselves a little bit, but people
are still afraid. Democrats, Republicans, independents. It`s not just
Colorado and what happened just recently in California. It`s building upon
what happened especially in Paris. And I think you`re going to continue to
see one thing after the other, and under the leadership of this president
who called Paris a setback, said that this current incident in California
could have been workplace issue dispute. They don`t feel that the
president is leading and caring for them under the terrorist flag, not the
flag, I should say, but leading when it comes to terrorism. People want to
feel secure so whoever is going to make them feel that way is where people
are going to go.

SHARPTON: Yamiche, I have watched you cover some very tense things in
Ferguson and all, and was very cool-headed. Now you are at the “New York
Times.” But let me ask you, now that it has been designated as a terrorist
attack by the federal government, how does that make the relevance or none-
relevance of the gun debate?

YAMICHE ALCINDOR, NEW YORK TIMES: I think the gun debate is still very
important, mainly because we have this idea that gun debating and terrorism
are two separate things. But a lot of people say that the idea of what we
even talk about in terrorism, and what we designate as terrorism is
something that we really pick and choose in a post 9/11 world. We really
look at it the as a religious thing.

Loretta Lynch used to say that one of the original domestic terrorists and
hate crimes. She was talking about the idea of African-Americans and what
they suffered in Lynch mobs and the KKK. So I think that is idea that has
been designated as terrorism for some people still means that we still have
to figure out how terrorists in America are getting their hands on guns.

SHARPTON: And how we defined who terrorists are.

ALCINDOR: And how we define who terrorists are because a lot of people
think that there are some real stereotyping and some real prejudice against
who we describe as a terrorist. Because I was down in South Carolina when
those nine people were killed in Emmanuel. And we weren`t really – a lot
of people were saying we should really talk about this as terrorism. And
the federal definition of terrorism is something that were - an act to
intimidate people. And that young man who killed those nine people were
trying to intimidate people. This was an African-American chump, mother
Emmanuel. So in his actions, he was trying to intimidate people so I think
it`s important to think about that.

SHARPTON: And we would not call him a terrorist. And when you hear this
terrorist debate that we`re talking about here, McKay, that Yamiche was
referring to, and let me play that for you.


that happened in Planned Parenthood. It is a terrible tragedy. People
should not be killed in that way. What happened there was wrong.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it terrorism?

RUBIO: Well I think it`s important to understand what we`re talking about,
obviously terrorized and killed people. But the pathology of that attack
is probably more of a mental illness of a deranged individual. These
individuals in California were motivated by an ideological belief in
radical Islam.


SHARPTON: But how do you take a statement like that in the context of what
we`re talking about in?

COPPINS: Right. Well, what you see Marco Rubio trying to do there is
separate – he wants to separate the two forms of terrorism because
Republicans are very strong on the issue of foreign radical Islamic radical
terrorism. But when the ideological roots of a domestic terrorist attack
such as the one in Planned Parenthood, when that occurs, Republicans,
obviously, want to distance themselves as much as possible or put as much
distance between –

SHARPTON: But Susan, can you have it both ways? If someone is committing
murders based on a belief, does it matter whether you agree with what their
target is or not or their belief is or not? Isn`t terrorism, terrorism?

DEL PERCIO: It is. But we have come in this country to label things as
domestic terrorism, which means it`s all happening as a result of our own
policies and our own country. So we have seen that over decades.

SHARPTON: But then, I didn`t hear Rubio call that domestic terrorism.

DEL PERCIO: I understand. But that`s what I`m saying as a general rule
that`s what we hear. And do we have to be more careful in how we define
our terms in this day and age? Absolutely. And when you talk about the
gun debate and terrorism, we should be able to agree, it`s like Hillary
Clinton said and I am a Republican, but I do agree with her on this
statement. If you`re not allowed to fly on a plane, you shouldn`t be able
to get a gun.

SHARPTON: Absolutely.

DEL PERCIO: Now, that is something that Republicans can come forward with
and say if you are on a terrorist watch list, if you are in a no fly list,
you should not be able to get a gun.

SHARPTON: But Yamiche, they just voted against that. There is loopholes.
Governor Andrew Cuomo was on my radio show this week talking about that.
They are voting against closing the loopholes where people on the no fly
list can go in and buy a gun. We are still – we can`t get them to vote on
background checks.

DEL PERCIO: But at the same time –

SHARPTON: I mean, it is Yamiche. Republican like to over talk. Don`t let
them do it.

ALCINDOR: I think what is interesting about that is that it tells you kind
of how much - how polarizing this issue is. That when you start thinking
of or even saying the word gun control that it already splits the two
parties in two. So I think that`s what we are seeing here. We are seeing
people saying we need to do something. But Republicans are still thinking
I don`t know what that something is and I`m not prepared the week that this
happened to say this is what we need to do.

SHARPTON: Well, I`m going to give Susan a chance. Then we will be back.
Republicans are saying I know what not to do. I don`t know what to do, and
I know what not to do, and that is say something against my base.
Everybody stay with us. There`s lots more ahead.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up, the debate in Congress over terror, guns and
Planned Parenthood. Congressman Jan Schakowsky is next.

Also questions new questions in the shooting of Laquan McDonald. Our
interview with the activist and journalist who forced the release of the
dash cam video.


SHARPTON: The day after the terror attack in California, Senate
Republicans pushed a series of revealing and controversial votes. They
voted to defund Planned Parenthood. It just came a week after that deadly
shooting at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado. A shooting many say
should also be called a terrorist attack.

Officer Garrett Swasey, one of the three people killed in the shooting was
laid to rest on Friday. Senate Republicans also defeated a measure that
would have banned people on the terror watch list from buying guns. And
once again, they voted to repeal sections, core sections of Obamacare.

Next up is a vote in the house and then a veto by the president, but these
votes left no doubt about the priorities of Republicans in Congress.

Joining me now is Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky Democrat of Illinois. She
is the ranking Democrat on the GOP`s new Planned Parenthood committee.

Thank you for being here, Congresswoman.

REP. JAN SCHAKOWSKY (D), ILLINOIS: It is my pleasure Reverend Al. It is
nice to be on set with you.

SHARPTON: Nice to be on set with you. I mean, I have got to ask how do
you respond to the votes the GOP controlled Senate took in light of what`s
going on? I mean, this is incredible to me.

SCHAKOWSKY: Isn`t it remarkable when we can actually do something about
keeping guns out of the hands of people on the terrorist watch list, do
something about real homeland security, they vote no. But at the same
time, they want to defund Planned Parenthood. They want to defund
Obamacare and not want to really do something about these mass shootings.

SHARPTON: And now these are people that can`t fly, but they can go and buy
a gun legally.

SCHAKOWSKY: You`re exactly right. It`s just remarkable. So, you know,
now we`re going to have another moment of silence. We are going to send
our thoughts and best wishes and condolences to the people who were shot.
That is simply not enough anymore. We have to do something serious about
the proliferation of guns and stop doing these ridiculous things like going
after, well, Planned Parenthood, how about the shootings at the planned
parenthood clinic?

SHARPTON: And how do we define that this is not a terrorist attack? I
mean, how do we define terrorism, if that`s not terrorism, then what is?

SCHAKOWSKY: You know, they want to define terrorism right now, frankly,
Reverend Al, as Muslims. And I`m not even talking about people who
associate themselves necessarily with extremist organizations. And I want
to tell you, I have a lot of people who believe in Islam in my district.
They are scared. People are afraid to send their children to school. They
are afraid to cover themselves, and are being attacked right now. It`s
really frightening for law-abiding American Muslims in this country.

SHARPTON: And Muslims around the world, but clearly Muslims here in
America. And we must not forget that many of those that have been killed
by ISIS have been Muslims.

SCHAKOWSKY: But you know, words matter, so when you have people who want
to be president of the United States saying that they want to have all
Muslims register in the United States, when people who talk about Planned
Parenthood and clinics and talk about baby body parts and then the killer
repeated those words, echoed those words, when he shot those people at the
clinic, words really matter. And right now those words are terrorizing

SHARPTON: You have taken a position that you want to see the GOP close
down this Planned Parenthood committee, where they really have gone after
Planned Parenthood. Explain that.

SCHAKOWSKY: Well, I am afraid that the committee continuing along the
lines, these inflammatory language that they use, is only going to continue
to create an atmosphere that will increase the threat. We have seen since
July, when these manufactured doctored tapes came out about the fetal
tissue, et cetera, a dramatic increase in threats, in arson, in vandalism,
not only Planned Parenthood but other clinics who serve women mainly for
preventative care, for primary care.

My fear is that continuing this kind of witch hunt is going to make those
clinics even more dangerous. No woman in the United States of America
should have to be afraid to go see her doctor for fear of violence.

SHARPTON: Laquan McDonald, you`re a congresswoman from Chicago.


SHARPTON: How do you weigh in on this? A lot of calls for the prosecutor
to step aside, a lot of heat on mayor of Chicago, what do you say?

SCHAKOWSKY: Well, this is not going to go away for a while. We are going
to have now the investigations by the federal government, by the justice
department. And I think that it is important, that we look at what are the
procedures? What is the accountability?

And this is not just happening in Chicago, as you well know. This is
around the country. And I want to give credit really to the Black Lives
Matter movement for raising this as a national issue, and holding our
police departments, the majority of whom do the right thing, but saying
that we cannot tolerate when those mistakes and misjudgments and killing of
black people, you know, that we have to hold everybody accountable.

SHARPTON: We are going to stay on it. We`ve been on it a long time and
going to continue to do it.

Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky, thank you for your time this morning.

SCHAKOWSKY: Thank you for your leadership.

SHARPTON: Thank you.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ahead, the stunning surge of Donald Trump, his biggest
lead yet in the polls.

And new questions in the police shooting of Laquan McDonald, the men who
forced the release of the video join “Politics Nation” next.



MAYOR RAHM EMANUEL (D), CHICAGO: The use of excessive force and misuse of
authority is not new in Chicago or isolated only to Chicago. It there say
history of it.


SHARPTON: Chicago Mayor Rahm Emmanuel announcing he was firing the police
superintendent, over a year after the police shooting of 17-year-old Laquan
McDonald. But that hasn`t put an end to the controversy or addressed the
lingering questions. Critics want to know why the version of events police
told immediately after the shooting doesn`t seem to match what`s on the
tape and why is the audio missing from this dash cam, and from the four
other squad cars at the scene? Why did the city wait 13 months to release
the video?

The man says it was to avoid hindering the investigation. And did anyone
tamper with the surveillance footage at a nearby burger king? City
officials say tests show that it was not tampered with. But the
restaurant`s manager says nearly 90 minutes were missing after police
assessed the computer. Chicago has a history of police misconduct, and
emotions are running high.


away, Rahm Emmanuel! We will be back! We`ll march. We`ll do whatever it
takes to have this system changed from the top to the bottom and that
includes you as well!


SHARPTON: I`m joined now from Chicago by independent journalist Brandon
Smith, and activist William Calloway. Their hard work, their work is what
forced the release of that dash cam video. Thanks for joining me, first of

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you. Thank you for having us.


SHARPTON: Brandon, you are still pushing for answers. What do you want to
hear from the city now?

BRANDON SMITH, INDEPENDENT JOURNALIST: There`s all kinds of documents and
data that are still missing from this case. We are talking about a video
from a car, police car on the scene that had real clear view. The audio
from all five videos the city released is really terrible. We are not sure
how it got to be that way. It effectively is not audio.

And then because there are so many people saying this is a cover-up, we
want the public to see every document related to this case. We think it`s
the only real way to restore trust in the police department and the city.
We are talking emails from within the city, statements from the officers
taken that day to see what they –

SHARPTON: All documents with everything that`s there?

SMITH: Yes, yes, I mean if some of the officers describe what was on the
video, you know, the officers should have been cuffed and charged with
murder immediately. If they all said no, one shot, and remember, there
were 16 shots, but the police department initially said one, you know, if
they all lied and said one, then all of those officers are at fault, and
liable in the cover-up.

SHARPTON: William, you and Brandon`s persistence and absolute commitment
to this is what led to these tapes coming out. What really drove you to
really stay on this? We were in the middle of a political campaign there.
There were people that were saying let it go. You kept driving it, Brandon
kept driving it. Did you have any feeling or have some kind of
intelligence that there were things on these tapes that were not being

WILLIAM CALLOWAY, ACTIVIST: Yes. The lawyer for the family came out and
stated that he had seen the video, and that it revealed that Mr. McDonald
was shot 16 times, conflicting the fop spokesperson initial reports saying
he was shot one time. Immediately then knew that it was a cover-up. And
as you said, Rahm Emmanuel, our mayor, or the mayor of this city, he was in
an election cycle and he paid the family $5 million and I think all of us
think he gave that to hush them up.

SHARPTON: Now, he paid a $5 million settlement, the city did, Brandon,
when the years I`ve been out here, involved in a lot of these struggles, I
have never seen a settlement with a family that never even filed a lawsuit
or even a notice of claim for a lawsuit.

SMITH: It did strike me as fishy, though, the timing of it. And you know,
the timing of the charge itself. The charge of murder for this officer,
didn`t come from the state`s attorney`s office until after the judge in our


SMITH: Said the video had to be released. So I spoke with whistle-blower
Lorenzo Davis earlier this morning. He is the whistle-blower that came out
of the investigative body, charged with policing the police here. He said
that back when he was there, he was asked to change his findings to find
all the officers, find that they were justified in what they were doing.
And he got fired for pushing back against that.

SHARPTON: 28,500 citizen complaints against the Chicago police department
between 2011 and 2015, 97 percent of those complaints no officer was
punished. And when you look at this, another tape to be are he leased
tomorrow of another case. Then you hear the whistle-blower that talked
with Brandon this morning. This is a problem and many don`t trust the
prosecutor, many said you need an outside prosecutor. The governor of New
York, Andrew Cuomo has done that in New York. What do you want to see done
to bring about fair and just results in Chicago, William?

CALLOWAY: Well, we would like to definitely see a special prosecutor over
this case, over all officer-involved shootings in Chicago. We think that
Alvarez has done a horrible job. The Chicago police department as a whole
has to be held accountable and I don`t think we have been seeing that. I
think that the police and all have been getting away with a lot of crimes.
Ronald Johnson, who you were speaking about, he was shot a week before
Laquan McDonald was shot. And his tape - well, his shooting was also
captured on dash cam. And you know, his mother Dorothy Holmes has been
out, you know, we have been supporting her, and she`s been championing to
get justice for her son for the past year. And we have been staying in
solidarity for that. But the mayor was chosen not to fight in court to
release that tape. So he planned on releasing it.

I just really hope that the FBI or the department of justice comes in and
do a federal probe into the Chicago police department, because what`s so
interesting about the Ronald Johnson case, police say that he had a gun and
he recovered a gun on the scene. Now, the lawyer Michael Oppenheimer for
the family, he says, he seen. He has watched the video and it clearly
shows that Ronald Johnson was unarmed when he was shot.

SHARPTON: Well, we are going to see that tape. I think it will be
released tomorrow. I`m going to have to leave it there and I`m certainly
going to keep having you guys on. You are the reason these tapes came out,
and we`re going to stay on these pursuits for justice.

Brand Smith and William Calloway, thank you both for your time this

CALLOWAY: Thank you.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Still to come, Donald Trump opens his biggest lead yet.
Can his GOP rivals close the gap?

And later, we will talk to a co-founder of the Fujis about his new film on
one of the strangest elections in history.


SHARPTON: GOP elites were already alarmed about Donald Trump`s rise. And
now this, a poll showing Trump opening his biggest lead yet. He is at 36
percent, 20 points ahead of the rest of the field. The poll was mostly
conducted before the massacre in California. Trump says that means his
numbers could go soon even higher.


TRUMP: It seems that every time there`s a tragedy, my poll numbers do go
up because they want strength. We have weak people, we have ineffective
people and we have incompetent people. Sadly, every single time there`s a
tragedy my poll numbers go up because they feel that I am going to take
care of them and they feel they want strength.


SHARPTON: As Trump surges, a fresh round of GOP anxiety, new reports of
top donors and Republican senators desperately looking for someone to take
him town down and we are seeing fellow GOP candidates launching new


CRUZ: I`ll make it clear, I don`t believe Donald Trump is going to be our
nominee. I don`t believe he`ll be our president.

to intimidating folks but I have no reason to engage with him. His facts
are wrong. I know that. He knows it, too. So it`s OK.

BUSH: The next president of the United States better have a servant`s
heart rather than trying to push people down to make himself look better.


SHARPTON: But Trump points out previous attempts to go after him have all
failed, and he says that`s not going to change any time soon.


TRUMP: Actually we are going to be doing most of the commercials that if
somebody hits me, I`m going to hit them back so hard. You have no idea.
We are going to hit them back ten times harder than they ever – which is
what we should doing with ISIS and everybody else.

Lindsey Graham, disaster, Perry disaster, all like disasters. Hey, there`s
only one way you get to the top and it`s all through Trump, let`s face it,
they have to. They have to.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ahead, Donald Trump`s growing lead, and the growing
panic in the GOP establishment.

The “Politics Nation” panel weighs in.


SHARPTON: We are back with our panel now to talk about Donald Trump
opening his largest lead yet in the Republican race. I`m with McKay
Coppins from Buzfeed. His new book about the GOP 2016 fight is called “the
Wilderness,” and Yamiche Alcindor of the “New York Times” and Republican
strategist Susan del Percio.

Susan, I promised to go to you first. Donald Trump at 36 percent is
ceiling as much higher than he thought. Many said he will never get above
30. He is at 36 percent. How do they stop this?

DEL PERCIO: First we need to see if that`s actually trending. And he is
nowhere close to those numbers if you look at Iowa and New Hampshire the
first states that are coming in. If he keeps going in this way, though, he
potentially could win this nomination outright.

I believe he is going to have problems in Iowa. I don`t necessarily think
he`s going to win there. And the same problems he will have for different
reasons he will have problems in New Hampshire. If he loses those two
states, it could have him tumbling down. But there`s no way to figure this
out at this point and time in December.

SHARPTON: But one of the things that really strikes me, Yamiche, is that
66 percent of Republican voters support so-called outsider candidates,
Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, or Ben Carson. What does that say about the
Republican voter?

ALCINDOR: That says that they are really looking for someone that is going
to be a little bit different than what they have seen in the past. That
they are really looking for someone that`s going to give them some sort of
change. All of those people that you just mentioned are people that are
outside of the Republicans that have really had jobs in the Republican
party that have led the Republican party in some ways, so I think it really
says that people are kind of frustrated with what they are seeing and that
we will see if that holds true, though, when it comes to how they`re going
to think about who this he want to put up against what will likely be
Hillary Clinton.

So I really want to see a little bit more about who overall they pick,
because the people that we talk to at the “New York Times,” there are a lot
of the Republicans are saying they are really nervous about Donald Trump
when it comes to the general election. And Republicans are thinking not
only will he not only lose the presidency, but that he will hurt the party
overall. And that there will be other people that will be losing house
seats and things like that.

SHARPTON: Yes. The coat tail effect.

McKay, it seems like there is a lot of concern almost to panic among the
Republican establishment that he has to be stopped but it doesn`t seem like
anyone wants to step up to take him down. You wrote the book. What is
going on?

COPPINS: There`s genuine disagreement about this because some in the
Republican establishment think that, you know, it is war, you know. Like
let`s camp up on the swing states with negative ads. Let`s blitz, you
know, with the super Pac money. Let`s take him down.

The problem is that we`ve seen repeatedly throughout the cycle that every
time somebody tries that particularly from a more moderate standpoint or
from the establishment, it only strengthens Trump, it only fuels him
because his entire message is being built around the outsider.

The other thing we have to watch is that the whole concept of being an
outsider now is very different than it was five years ago and I write about
that in the book, because there`s this whole right wing counter
establishment that`s been built up, right. That supporting candidates like
Trump, there`s lots of money in clout and influence there and it`s not
easily overcome.

SHARPTON: But Yamiche, I want to go back to something you said, I read in
the “New York Times” op-ed columnist Brooks said we have got to see what
they do when they go in to vote. That there is one thing talking to the
pollsters but when they go in to vote and they think about who do I want to
run the country and who can win against Hillary Clinton, who is the front-
runner in the Democratic side. Is that what we are looking at? Is that
where we have to come back to Susan saying he may lose Iowa, he may lose
New Hampshire. And I remember when I ran in 2004 at this time, Howard Dean
was the nominee. He came in third. So are we looking at the possibilities
of this happening and talking about something that won`t pale out?

ALCINDOR: Well, I think the thing is it`s still early and while we have
been talking about the presidential election for months now, people still
have a lot of time before they can make their decision. And the idea is
that when someone gets up - when someone actually goes in to that to go to
protect that ballot box, are they going to say this is who I want to beat
Hillary Clinton? And I think Hillary Clinton is going to really be on the
minds of Republican voters.

I think that while they will be thinking about all the people that they can
choose from, they know that Hillary Clinton has the really strong backing.
They know what Hillary Clinton brings to the table. And you have to think,
and you know, Susan will probably jump into this, but you have to think who
are they going to put in the big ring? Who are they putting there?
Because his likability to the overall country, Donald Trump, is really

SHARPTON: Susan, who really putting? I`m hearing that some Republican
establishment types are as afraid or more of Cruz as they are Donald Trump.

DEL PERCIO: That is true. They are very, very concerned about Ted Cruz.
You see a lot of people who may have been with Jeb going to Marco, and so
both you have the Jeb and the Marco folks petrified of what Ted Cruz
candidacy can mean. I actually think it would be worse than ballot races
than Donald Trump at the top of the ticket. So that is certainly a big

But just to talk about, you know, Yamiche was saying earlier, Republicans
are not only wanting an outsider. They want someone who is going to be
fighting for them. And that`s what Donald Trump has tapped into. But what
he hasn`t tapped into in the first two states is he is speaking to people.
He is not out there shaking their hands. In Iowa they don`t consider
voting for you until they`re been with them four times. He`s speaking to
people at the rallies, not getting to know them handshake by handshake.

SHARPTON: All right. I`m going to have to leave it there, McKay Coppins,
Yamiche Alcindor and Susan Del Percio, thank you. Enjoy the rest of your



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Next, a Fuji co-founder joins “Politics Nation” on his
new movie on one of the most bizarre elections ever.


SHARPTON: Right now, a reality TV star is the front-runner in the GOP`s
2016 race. And in 2020, we might have a pop star in the race, if you
believe Kanye West. But stranger things have happened. Just look at
Haiti, after that country`s devastating earthquake in 2010, they had an
election that was like nothing the world had ever seen, and it`s the
subject of a new documentary produced by one of the founders of the Fujis,
Pras Michel.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You need someone who can inspire the people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was like you know what? You need to run for
president of Haiti

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For over 20 years he`s been one of hate east`s
favorite musician, outrageous and outspoken.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From that point I basically –

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I read on the internet you used to wear furs

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s the artist, that`s the actor.


SHARPTON: Joining me now is Praz Michel himself or for those of us who are
fans just Pras. Thanks for being here, Pras.


SHARPTON: Sweet Micky. He was a pop star who wore a diaper on stage. Why
did you think he could be president?

MICHEL: Well, at that time I knew he was a popular musician in Haiti. I
know he had a lot of followers. He was very (INAUDIBLE). People had a lot
of affinity for him. And after the earthquake, I thought he can probably
be helped to move the country in a direction because people will follow and
lead him.

SHARPTON: The documentary talks about that whole movement, and the whole
anguish and anxiety that was in the country. What did we learned about the
dynamic of a celebrity uniting but then having to govern? What did we
learn in the documentary?

MICHEL: Well, I mean, in this documentary is really about the people`s
voice. It`s about Haitians getting together and saying our voice is going
to be recognized. Because he was the third elected democratic president in
207 years. So it`s all about all that`s possible. That`s really what this
documentary is about, but just to give you behind the scenes of what
happened in the campaign. It just so happened I`m a musician. He was a
musician. It was a real strange happening, but it happened.

SHARPTON: Now, talking about strange, one of your colleagues Wyclef Jean,
decided to run also at one point, and you have a little scene that I found
interesting in the documentary. Let me play that for you.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wyclef`s band mate, Pras Michel, is endorsing Marteli

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My strategy play continue it to boost Michel.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need a radical change in Haiti. We don`t need a
celebrity from abroad to come in and think they`re going to save the day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn`t get a sense of what was the real plan of the
candidates that are better, more qualified.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The first thing is I guess there won`t be another Fuji


SHARPTON: So was that awkward having to go up against Wyclef?

MICHEL: Yes, you know, it`s my band mate. We were like cousins, grew up
with each other, but I didn`t know he was going to run until the last
minute and I was already endorsing Michel. So it got real political. My
first time in that fray got a little bit testy.

SHARPTON: Are you pleased or not pleased with how Micky has been as
president? I know you said you still see him as an artist, but what about
as president? Are you satisfied that your work has done something?

MICHEL: Well, I think the thing I`m satisfied about is that, you know,
down in Haiti, I think the people realize that their vote is very
important. And they want their vote to be recognized. As far as the way
he governed down in Haiti, a little bit disappointing. You know, it`s like
anyone you support, you know. You wish that all the, you know, policies
and the mandates that they campaigned on actually happened, but it didn`t
go the way, you know that I wanted it to go.

Listen if Abraham Lincoln came back to life and ran for president of Haiti,
he would have a hard time in Haiti. It`s just a hard place.

SHARPTON: Your parents are from Haiti. You worked a lot down there
particularly after the earthquake and the campaign, of course. Hillary
Clinton is front-runner Democrat, a Democratic nomination here. What did
you observe about the work of the Clinton foundation? There`s been a lot
of questions raised about that.

MICHEL: Well, I know Bill Clinton has done – I`ve seen him a couple of
times in Haiti. I think he has done some incredible work in Haiti. But it
is like with anything, some people will be satisfied some people are not.
But from what I have seen and witnessed I think between Bill Clinton and
Sean Penn, they have done tremendous amount of work, given the condition
and the environment down in Haiti.

SHARPTON: Praz Michel, thank you for being here. Congratulations on the
film. Go to sweetmickeyforpresident.com to see when it`s showing in your

Well, that does it for me. Thank you for watching. I`ll see you back here
next Sunday.



Transcription Copyright 2015 ASC LLC ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. No license is
granted to the user of this material other than for research. User may not
reproduce or redistribute the material except for user`s personal or
internal use and, in such case, only one copy may be printed, nor shall
user use any material for commercial purposes or in any fashion that may
infringe upon MSNBC and ASC LLC`s copyright or other proprietary rights or
interests in the material. This is not a legal transcript for purposes of