MTP Daily, Transcript 8/4/2017

Charlie Dent, Matthew Continetti, Ruth Marcus, Carol Lee, John Carlin, Contessa Brewer, Mazie Hirono

Date: August 4, 2017
Guest: Charlie Dent, Matthew Continetti, Ruth Marcus, Carol Lee, John
Carlin, Contessa Brewer, Mazie Hirono

NICOLE WALLACE, MSNBC HOST: That does it for this hour. I`m Nicole
Wallace. “MTP DAILY” starts right now. Hi, Chuck.

CHUCK TODD, MSNBC HOST: Hi, Nicole. But as you know, as well as anybody,
when you`re president, don`t assume August will be nice to you.

WALLACE: That`s right.

TODD: August can be very cruel to sitting presidents.

Thank you, Nicole. Happy Friday.

Well, if it`s Friday, it`s the best of times, it`s the worst of times. It
actually just depends on who you ask.

(voice-over): Tonight, President Trump throws out red meat in a red state.


fabrication. It`s just an excuse for the greatest loss in the history of
American politics.


TODD: But while the base cheers, the president is facing push back from
his own party`s leading lawmakers.

Plus, the latest White House staff, the Trump base loves to hate. Why the
knives are out for the national security advisor.

And August, it`s the cruelest month. Why the dog days of summer so often
dog U.S. presidents.

This is MTP DAILY and it starts right now.

(on camera): Well, good evening. I`m Chuck Todd here in Washington and
welcome to MTP DAILY.

Happy Friday or should I say unhappy Friday? Because, right now,
everything is awesome and awful. It just depends on who you ask.

Politics is all about messaging, right? Well, folks, you are witnessing an
epic battle between two versions of reality for this president. Wait a
minute, you might say, everything is awesome. Jobs, jobs, jobs, the
economy is humming and stocks are booming.

There`s no upside on being anti-Trump either, just ask West Virginia
Governor Jim Justice who`s switching from a D to an R, or ask Republican
Senator Jeff Flake which direction his poll numbers are heading right now
after bashing the president.

And you`ve got the Justice Department finally cracking down on those leaks.

But hold on a second, you might also say everything is awful. Those leaks
might be trying to bring down a highly-respected national security advisor
because he won`t back the president`s conspiracy theories on unmasking. Do
you hear anyone in the president`s inner circle complaining about those
leaks? Not that guy.

And forget jobs, jobs, jobs. What about Russia, Russia, Russia? Special
counsel looks like he`s hot on the president`s trail. The White House`s
credibility is totally shot. So, is their relationship with this
Republican Congress.

You`ve got a rotating cast of exasperated Senate Republicans, like these
ones who torpedoed the president`s health care agenda, or this one who says
he`s turning democracy upside down, or this one who is writing legislation
to prevent him from firing Mueller, or this one who basically called him a

Oh, and there`s this one who sent everyone home just like the president`s
threats not to leave town until health care was done. Awful.

So, which do you believe? The president says the economy is awesome but he
just got through an entire campaign trying to convince us that this very
same fundamental economy was awful.


anywhere from 18 to 20 percent. Don`t believe the 5.6. Don`t believe it.

I actually saw a number of 42 percent unemployment. 42 percent. And it
could be. On the only thing that looks good is the stock market, but if
you raise interest rates, even a little bit, that`s going to come crashing
down. We are in a big, fat ugly bubble.

The terrible jobs report that just came out –

You see these phony numbers about five percent.

The unemployment number, as you know, is totally fiction.


TODD: And according to the president all that smoke on Russia which is
awful is just proof of just how awesome his movement is.


fabrication. It`s just an excuse for the greatest loss in the history of
American politics. That`s all it is.

We didn`t win because of Russia. We won because of you. That I can tell
you. Have you seen any Russians in West Virginia or Ohio or Pennsylvania?
Are there any Russians here tonight, any Russians?


TODD: And the leaks, which the president thought were awesome when
preceded by the word Wiki, are now totally, totally awful.


JEFF SESSIONS, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: We are taking a stand. This culture
of leaking must stop. And I have this warning for would-be leakers. Don`t
do it.

improperly disclose classified information, we will find you.


TODD: Let`s dive in. I`m joined now by Republican Congressman Charlie
Dent of Pennsylvania. And, Congressman, I was thinking about how we were
putting this together, the fact that there are, I think, two realities, and
I knew I had you on. I thought, boy, your district truly is, sort of, two
realities all in one district.

So, let me ask you this. Which reality is it?

REP. CHARLIE DENT (R), PENNSYLVANIA: Which reality? The reality is this.
I think that my constituents are not obsessed with the Russian issue. I
would say they are concerned with it, very concerned with it. And
certainly they`re paying attention to the investigation.

[17:05:04] But I think most people are still focused on other issues, jobs,
the economy, health care is an issue I hear more about than anything else
to be perfectly candid.

TODD: What – and let me ask you this. What`s working? Do they – do
your constituents go to you and say, OK, boy, why aren`t we getting a bunch
more stuff done or do they say, huh, things are doing all right. He`s
doing all right. And why don`t you support him? What kind of feedback are
you getting right now?

DENT: Most of the feedback I`m getting from my constituents, Chuck, has
been pretty favorable. Most of my constituents expect me to be a check,
you know, against the president if he`s moving in a bad direction. But
they also expect me to work with him and support him if he`s on the right
track. I mean, that`s always been my view on this thing.

But they do want us to be honest about situations. I don`t think they want
us to try to defend the indefensible or explain the inexplicable. But, at
the same time, they just want us to be honest and genuine as we – as we
deal with this administration.

TODD: It`s been interesting for me to watch this week as very Senate
Republicans want to erect some roadblocks on the president. And it feels
like it really is about one single issue, Russia.

If the president`s attitude on the Russia investigation was, I want to get
to the bottom of this, too, how would relations be between Congressional
Republicans and this president right now?

DENT: Chuck, the relations would be much better because most of us in
Congress in both parties believe that the reason why we had to impose these
sanctions is because of very bad Russia behavior, particularly Putin`s
behavior. And that American policy toward Russia should not change until
Russian behavior changes.

And we know that Russia is trying to break up NATO, undermine the European
Union, you know, basically undermine our power and influence anywhere they
can in the world. And that is the issue. And that`s why, I think, many of
us are a bit confounded by the president`s somewhat seemingly conciliatory
and accommodating view towards Putin.

So, I think that`s really a big part of our challenge. We are just a bit
mystified by this. We wish the president embraced a more conventional,
traditional view of Russia, which we believe his secretary of defense and
certainly national security advisor embrace.

TODD: It does – is it starting to bleed into other issues, meaning that
there`s some hesitance of maybe Congressman S or senator Y? While they may
agree on this issue, that they don`t feel as compelled to help this
president, because they`re so upset about Russia. Has it bled that – bled
into other issues that way?

DENT: At this point, I would have to say, not too much. But there is a
real concern about the lack of discipline, lack of focus and apparent
dysfunction coming out of the White House.

Now, with General Kelly becoming chief of staff, we hope that some of those
issues will become much better.

But I think the fact that there is so much distraction which leads to
exhaustion, not just for the American people but for members of Congress,
that we are constantly responding to the issue of the moment, the tweet of
the day, rather than focusing on real legislative issues, agenda items like
infrastructure or tax reform.

So, we`re really not talking about those issues, and it`s making it harder
for us to deal with those issues because of that.

TODD: Speaking of things that are harder now. I`m curious your take on
Jeff Flake`s book. Look, you`ve not been a Republican that`s been afraid
to speak out.

And, look, you`re more from the center right wing of the party versus the
more conservative wing. But, then again, what is a conservative these days?
I think the definition is changing.

Are you concerned that the base of the party is really of more of a cult of
personality on Trump and, frankly, the way, at times, the Democratic Party
sometimes felt as if its base was a cult of personality about Obama?

Is that what`s happening in the Republican Party in that if you`re against
Trump, then the base is – the base going to punish you no matter what the
issue is?

DENT: Yes, I have to say that prior to Donald Trump becoming the nominee,
the litmus test and always been there was a battle between I`ll say the
purists versus the pragmatists.

And now that Donald Trump is the president, I think the issue is a bit
different. It comes down to how loyal are you to the president? And
that`s how you`re being judged.

So, if you have a more nuance position, some will consider you, you know,
an infidel or a trader.

And on the other side, I`ll tell you, if you – if you – if you agree with
the president on an issue which is, I`ll say, you sold out.

So, that`s the challenge that, I think, what a lot of us are facing. And,
by the way, Jeff Flake is a very good friend. I haven`t read his book.
He`s my paddle ball partner. I`ve been playing with him for years.

So, we`re actually quite close. We talk – we used to talk quite a bit
when he was in the House.

TODD: Can you say definitively now that the Republican Party is a big tent

DENT: Well, I want it to be a big tent party. It must be a big tent party
if it hopes to succeed long term. Clearly, in my view, we have to do a
better job reaching out to Asian voters, Hispanic voters. I think on
social issues certainly to younger voters, LGBT issues especially.

I think we have to become – I think we have to cast a wider net than is
the case at the moment.

[17:10:00] That said, I do think that people genuinely like the Republican
philosophy of more limited government, strong national defense. And I
think that`s something that has been, I think, well received.

But, at the same time, I feel like we`re experiencing a political
realignment going on right under our feet. I would – I would usually say
that, you know, Republicans embraced open markets and free trade, but
that`s obviously been tested under this administration to a certain extent.

So, things are shifting under us, and I don`t know how this is going to
sort itself out over the next couple of years.

TODD: I`m with you. And, you know, who knows, maybe in 10 years, you come
here and there`s a different party label next to you. And it may not be
either D or R, at this point. Who knows where this realignment is headed.
I`m not – I`m not trying to get you in trouble here, left or right.

Anyway, Congressman Dent, thanks for joining me this morning, I appreciate
it – or this evening.

DENT: All right, thanks, Chuck.

TODD: You got it.

Let me bring in tonight`s panel. Matthew Continetti, Editor-in-Chief of
“The Washington Free Beacon,” Carol Lee, our newest NBC National Political
Reporter. Welcome, Carol. And Ruth Marcus, Editorial Page Editor for “The
Washington Post.” Welcome, All.
Matthew, you had a column today that you gave conservative an epitaph, I
think, 1945 to 2017. It was fascinating to hear Charlie Dent`s last answer
there where he admitted, I don`t know where this is headed. We`re in a
political realignment.
On one hand, I get it. But are we – have we really realigned or are we
organized around a cult of personality?
we`re realigning. I mean, look at West Virginia where President Trump was

TODD: But that was a cultural shift more than it was a policy shift.

CONTINETTI: Well, it`s a policy shift in terms of attitudes toward free
trade and protection and the place of, kind of, the working man and woman
in the Republican Party. A country club party is changing into a Sam`s
Club coal miner party. And Donald Trump saw that transition, and he
exploited it.

TODD: The two narratives, it is – I mean, you look in Trump world and
they say, hey, look at all this. You guys are obsessed on Russia. You go
on the other side, Ruth, and you`re, like, wait a minute, nothing is
working here in Washington. It`s on fire. And everybody is, like, you
know, we are living two realities.

have some truth to them, right. The Dow is where the Dow is, a bubble or

TODD: Right.

MARCUS: Unemployment is where unemployment is. Fake numbers or not.

TODD: Although, I will tell you, it`s the same economy we`ve had for the
last two years. It is what it is.

MARCUS: So, one of the things that I think is amazing is that Donald
Trump`s poll numbers, fake poll news numbers, are so low, given the good
state of the – sort of, the positive side of the ledger has a lot of
positives in it. A president in an economy like this should be doing
better than Donald Trump is. And I think all of that goes to the realities
on the other side of the ledger.

TODD: Go ahead.

not just Russia but the dysfunction and the questions about whether or not
he`s trust worthy, whether or not he`s honest.

That`s really going to hurt. That is partly why I think he is not doing as
well in those poll numbers, because people give the president some leeway,
in terms of it`s been six months. We`ll give him some time to get some
things done but it just looks chaotic.

MARCUS: And the core stays where the core is, though it is – the numbers
suggest that it is dwindling somewhat.

TODD: But only somewhat. I would not sit here and –

MARCUS: A few points, yes.

TODD: Yes, it`s not a lot yet.

MARCUS: But the folks – there`s a lot of anxious folks in the middle who
were Trump cure curious, right. Trump eccentric.

TODD: Right.

MARCUS: And they`re now Trump anxious.

TODD: Yes. I mean, the approval number is interesting because it`s not
really judging job performance. It`s judging the man.

CONTENETTI: It feels character, right? It feels like a character ends

TODD: I agree.

CONTINETTI: And what Representative Dent was saying, I think, is very
real, just in conservative and Republican circles.

TODD: You`ve been experiencing yourself sometimes.

CONTINETTI: It`s – he is the most polarizing figure in American politics
in decades, and so it`s really measuring what – do you approve of him as a
person or not?

TODD: Right.

CONTINETTI: And the second you begin to try to distinguish – because I
think, actually, a lot of voters, especially in districts like
Representative Dent`s, feel – they try to distinguish between, well, I
don`t like certain aspects of his personality or certain actions he takes
when it seems off is the wall.

On the other hand, I agree with him on his agenda, then you start getting
very mixed reactions.

TODD: But, look, he`s not the first polar – yes, he`s the most polarizing
figure. He was the most polarizing president we had, since President
Obama, who was the most polarizing president we had, since President George
W. Bush, who was the most polarizing president we had since President Bill

I mean, it is this cult of personality mind-set that I feel like politics
is organized right now Because what are the Democrats other than anti-
Trump right now?

MARCUS: That`s a good question. And I think they are struggling to figure
that out. And they are struggling to come up with someone who can lead
them out of the Trump wilderness.

But I think that two things can be happening simultaneously, right. We are
polarized and polarizing. And as we do that, we are going through this
realignment that may be – may have been happening with or without Trump.

[17:15:08] And we are engaged in this cult of personality. So, the two of
those together are what has us so, kind of, perplexed and confused.

I think that one – you were talking about a lot of this as Trump`s Russia

TODD: Yes.

MARCUS: And Trump does have a Russia problem on many different levels,
including with Congress on his, you know, absolute refusal to acknowledge
the reality that the intelligence community has said.

But even if Trump didn`t have Russia, Congress would be having a Trump
problem with Trump.

TODD: I hear you a little bit. But it is interesting (INAUDIBLE.)
Charles Krauthammer wrote today that the Trump presidency is a stress test.
But he says America is passing and he went through it in various points.

He went through various bullet points and I – we shortened them here.
Number one, military says no to Trump on the transgender ban. The Senate
saves Sessions. Senate Republicans reject the Obamacare repeal. The Boy
Scouts protest the police chief`s chide.

There`s always – so, it`s, on one hand, to the off – to the folks that
think everything is awful, Carol. Look, we – there are guard rails. It`s
a messy process. But there`s a reason we had, frankly, so many guard rails
and so many aspects of our government.

LEE: Right. And the – it`s been fascinating to watch. This president
has not had that, kind of, honeymoon that – even with his own party that
you would expect. And it goes to what we were talking about earlier.


LEE: That it`s cult of personality, yes. Yes. It`s also the loyalty that
the congressman was talking about.

But it`s been – it`ll will be – I think the key is going to be to see how
this plays out in the fall. Because what you`ve seen is you`ve had six
months of the Congress that really hasn`t faced any must-do tough things.
And they really couldn`t get their act together, except this certain way,
to oppose the president.

And now, they`re heading into the fall where they all really need each
other. And –

TODD: Well, you`re absolutely right. This legislation they have to pass
just to keep the (INAUDIBLE.)

LEE: Right, exactly. They`re – that when they`re – and they have. And
it`s right in September. It`s immediate.

TODD: Yes.

MARCUS: I think that the guard rails have been impressive and I would put
into those the courts, the media. The reason why we`re having all of these
leaks, keep them coming, has to do with the concern that people inside the
government have.

But the real guardrail is Congress. And while we`ve seen some, sort of,
glimmerings of revolt, we haven`t seen a willingness to say – to really,
other than threaten and cluck, to say this – we will really not tolerate

TODD: I really think that depends where you stand.

MARCUS: And to follow through on it.

TODD: I`m in – I am impressed with the number of people that are
standing. I mean, (INAUDIBLE.)

MARCUS: Well, they can – Jeff Flake, yes. But, you know, they can tut-
tut. They can warn. Let`s see what they do if a line is crossed.

CONTINETTI: (INAUDIBLE) wanted to stand up to Trump, they couldn`t.
Because, again, these trends that predated Trump and they`re continuing
through his presidency, the dysfunction of Congress is one of them. Right?

And when you – I mean, is it a Trump problem? Yes, partly. But it`s also
a congressional problem. And the fact of the lack of the power of the
committee system, lack of the power of the leadership, all of these
predated Trump.

His unique political identity make them all worse. We have three parties,
the Democrats, the Republicans and the party of Trump. And figuring out
how the Republican Party relates to the party of Trump is kind of the
defining issue of our time.

TODD: We may get a test – a stress test on that in the Arizona Republican
Senate primary, that I think could be the single most important election of
2018, oddly enough.

Anyway, let`s pause here. Thanks very much. Matthew, Carol and Ruth, stay
with us.

Coming up, Special Counsel Bob Mueller may be accelerating his Russia
investigation. I`m going to ask his former chief of staff about how
running this investigation is going for him under this mounting criticism
from the White House.

We`ll be right back.



TODD: Welcome back. It seemed today like Attorney General Jeff Sessions
was holding a press conference for an audience of one, President Trump.


JEFF SESSIONS, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: This nation must end this culture of
leaks. We will investigate and seek to bring criminals to justice. We
will not allow rogue anonymous sources with security clearances to sell out
our country.

These cases to investigate and prosecute are never easy, but cases will be
made and leakers will be held accountable.


TODD: Attorney General Sessions and the director of National Intelligence,
Dan Coats, said they`re taking new steps to plug leaks of classified
information. And they say the administration has tripled the number of
investigations involving illegal disclosures.

President Trump, of course, frequently rails against leaks. But the truth
is the leaks that bother the president the most aren`t the ones of the
classified information. Frankly, they`re the water cooler leaks, the staff
infighting leaks, the who`s at dinner with whom leaks.

Those leaks may be embarrassing with the White House. They have nothing to
do with classified information. Leaking classified information is actually
a crime and it remains a crime.

You know what`s the best way to prevent leaks for any organization? Be a
leader that inspires loyalty among staff. Run a tight ship. Cut out the
staff infighting. That`s the best way to stop leaks.

The worst way to stop leaks, threaten to stop leaks.

We`ll be right back.


TODD: Welcome back.

As we mentioned at the top of the show, one of the things that appears to
be awful for the Trump White House today is the thing they have no control
over. The ongoing and apparently expanding Russia investigation.

“The Wall Street Journal” reported last night that Special Counsel Bob
Mueller had impaneled his own grand jury here in Washington to focus solely
on the growing Russia investigation.

Now, we, here at NBC News, has not confirmed that he has his own panel, but
we do know Mueller has been use – making use of active grand juries in
multiple districts, including here in the city of Washington and in
northern Virginia.

And those multiple districts are issuing subpoenas for records and
documents that are tied to Mueller`s investigation.

Joining me now is John Carlin. He`s a former assistant attorney general
and was Special Counsel Bob Mueller`s chief of staff when Mueller was
director of the FBI.

Mr. Carlin, thanks for coming in.


TODD: Let me first start with just some facts to help people understand
what a grand jury is and what it isn`t. And why a prosecutor needs the
tool of a grand jury to do an investigation.

CARLIK: So, a grand jury serves two primary functions. And one is really
it is a tool that is used for the investigation. It is how. It is in the
name of the grand jury that when subpoenas, documents.
And that is the life blood documents of the records like that are the life
blood of a complex, white collar investigation.

And, secondly, you use it to lock in the testimony of potential witnesses
and find out what happened or what didn`t happen so people testify
secretly, under oath, before their peers in front of the grand jury.

And, at the end of the day, the second core function of the grand jury is
to determine whether or not you`ve met your burden of probable cause.

[17:25:02] TODD: Right.

CARLIN: And whether indictment is returned.

TODD: Is it fair to say that – I feel like, in this news, oh, my god,
Robert Mueller is impaneled his own grand jury. It would have been news if
he wasn`t using a grand jury, correct?

CARLIN: That`s absolutely right. People should take a breath over the
fact that someone who`s been assigned, explicitly and openly, one of the
most complex type of investigations. If there`s any contact or collusion
between Russians and anyone involved in the Trump campaign, as natural as
breathing, that a trained prosecutor would use a grand jury to aid them in
that investigation.

TODD: All right. I`m not – well, we haven`t confirmed the idea of
impaneling your own. What – I was told there`s, sort of, two potential
reasons why he might want his own. One is just simply volume of work that
needs to be done, whether it`s interviews, subpoenas, et cetera.

The other is because of the sensitive nature. And perhaps you don`t – you
kind of want to just protect one grand jury when it comes to dealing with
classified information and not have to worry about multiple locations.

What`s the – what – is that – is there any other reason why you would
want to have your own, as opposed to using what`s already there?

CARLIN: No, those are the two main reasons. And it`s often – grand
juries, if you`ve ever served on one or had a relative who served on one.

TODD: I haven`t been on one or been interviewed by one, but any way. Yes?

CARLIN: These are – you know, these are everyday citizens. You get a
notice tomorrow in the mail.

Instead of serving on the petite or small jury, which is the one everyone
is used to on T.V., you serve on the grand jury. It`s usually for an 18-
month period. You don`t meet every day. And for a busy district, they`re
hearing a lot of different types of cases simultaneously.

And so, in order to ensure that you have enough time to move quickly on a
complex investigation, you might impanel your own.

TODD: All right. Let me ask you about Bob Mueller. He is coming under a
lot of public scrutiny. And a lot of attacks coming from just inside the -
- from the person he`s investigating. It`s – it can`t be a comfortable
place to be. How`s he holding up?

CARLIN: Well, without talking about any – I`ll talk generally.

TODD: Fair enough.

CARLIN: Bob Mueller, former Marine, a lifelong prosecutor who, after
having one of the highest positions you can have in the Democratic of
justice, went briefly to private practice. Didn`t like it. Chose to
return to the line to do local homicides here in D.C.

TODD: I`ve heard that story. Literally, he said, no, I`ll go in the back
of the line. I don`t need to do that. I just want to be here. It was a
remarkable part of his career.

CARLIN: I served in that same office. We all heard about him when we were
doing homicide prosecutors. And almost every day, when I was chief of
staff, at least once a day, he said, I wish I was back doing that. Where
you`re just going after the facts, figuring out who did it and trying to
hold them accountable.

This is not someone who cares a lot about what`s going on with the whispers
and rumors in Washington.

TODD: All right. But let me ask you this. Can it take a toll? Can it
take a toll on your investigation with the grand jury? Can – do you know
what I mean? It`s, like, you can`t – I get that it may not impact him,
because you just outlined his nature.

But it – you must be concerned, as a former prosecutor, how this stuff can
impact just as a whole?

CARLIN: Well, look, I think there are career investigators and prosecutors
that are working on this type of case. And the subject matter, the idea
that Russia tried to undermine our core democracy by interfering in this
election is very serious. And something that has nothing to do with what
party you`re in, but everything to do with what it is to be American.

And make no mistake, Putin ultimately – he hates democracy. He views it
as an existential threat to the Russia regime. And that`s consistent with
what he`s tried to do here in the United States, what he`s been trying to
do to our European allies.

And so, one thing I think you`ve seen more recently is it`s nice to see, in
a bipartisan way, that people – for people to say, hey, we may have our
debates as American over – as Americans over policy, et cetera. That ends
when it comes to an adversary like this.

TODD: We think.

Anyway, Mr. Carlin, I appreciate you coming in and sharing your views.

CARLIN: Thank you.

TODD: Coming up later this hour, we`re going to look at whether H.R.
McMaster is getting the Reince Priebus treatment right now from the Trump

Plus, why August can be the coolest month for politicians and why this year
may be no exception.

And, of course, if it`s Sunday, a special edition of “MEET THE PRESS.”
We`re going to take a closer look at our broken politics. More of the root
causes of why every week seems insane right now in Washington. Republican
Senator Jeff Flake and California`s Governor Jerry Brown will be among my

We`ll be right back.


the latest installment of “On Assignment with Richard Engel.” Richard will
have an exclusive interview with a former top American diplomat to Beijing,
who quit because of President Trump`s decision to withdraw from the Paris
Climate Agreement.

You can check that out at 9:00 Eastern right here on MSNBC. Still ahead on
“MTP Daily,” one senator on our health care fights on Capitol Hill and at
home. But first, it`s jobs Friday. Wow, I was told there was a surprise.
Contessa Brewer.


TODD: First of all, welcome back to the family. Great to have you.

BREWER: Yes. You know, I wasn`t really gone. I was just visiting elsewhere.

TODD: I know you were. It means I get to run into you again, and that`s
good news for me.

BREWER: Yes. Nice to see you, Chuck. I feel like I should take a selfie
right now of the split screen and just capture. Let me get you updated on
what`s the market is doing today, finishing higher following today`s strong
jobs report. The Dow gained 66 points, reaching a record high for the
eighth straight day. The S&P added four. The Nasdaq is up is 11. Cannot
keep it down.

Across the board a positive reaction to a better than expected jobs report.
And the economy added 209,000 jobs in July. The food service industry saw
the biggest gains, adding 53,000 jobs. The unemployment rate ticked down to
4.3 percent. That`s the lowest since March 2001. The U.S. trade deficit
dropped almost 6 percent in June bolstered by the highest levels of exports
in two and a half years. And that`s a wrap up for me at CNBC, first in
business worldwide.



the North Koreans we are not your enemy. We`re not your threat, but you are
presenting an unacceptable threat to us. And we have to respond.


TODD: Welcome back. Amid North Korea`s growing nuclear ambition, Secretary
of State Rex Tillerson this week made a bold diplomatic offer suggesting
the U.S. is ready for direct talks. But at the same time, the U.S. military
successfully test launched their own ICBM from California. If things ever
went very sour, one state that potentially could sit in the crosshairs
first is Hawaii.

They`re actually now the first state to publicly begin preparing for the
possibility that a missile could hit the state. In fact, the state`s
emergency management agency recently released new guidance on what people
should do in case this happens. And they`re starting to test a new warning
system that could alert people to an attack through sirens. Now, officials
there are clear, however, that right now there is of course no need to

Well, joining me now is Democratic Senator Mazie Hirono of Hawaii. Senator,
thanks for being here.

SEN. MAZIE HIRONO (D), HAWAII: Good to be here.

TODD: I know you are on your own health journey here.


TODD: I want to talk about that in a little bit. Let me start with the
threat from North Korea. As Hawaii senator, do you feel as if North Korea
is a direct threat to Hawaii right now?

HIRONO: Believe me, I have had many conversations with Admiral Harris, the
pacific commander as to really, you know, what is the danger that Hawaii
faces. But the danger that Hawaii faces is a danger that our entire country
would face, not to mention Alaska.

And so of course we have to make sure that we have a really good missile
defense system in place. We`re putting together a radar system for Hawaii
and we`re going to do everything we can to make sure that we are protected.

TODD: What do you want to see happen? It was unclear this week, what is the
United States policy? Is it regime change? Is it, you know, Rex Tillerson
said not regime change. But not everybody believes that that should be the
policy. Where are you on this?

HIRONO: I don`t know how a regime change would be effective. As you can
see, we don`t have a very good track record doing that. And so I don`t
think that should be our policy. But clearly, North Korea is very
complicated, and I don`t think we have a meeting of the minds because Kim
Jong-un thinks that we`re going to attack North Korea, whereas we haven`t
given no evidence of that.

We think that they`re going to attack us so, sure, I think Secretary
Tillerson saying that why don`t we come together and try to have a meeting
of the minds, that`s good. At the same time, diplomatic route, I think, is
really the way to go. We still have some sanctions that we can apply.

TODD: Well, I was just going to say though, on the military front, yes,
there`s a lot of some would call it saber-rattling. Where you had some that
say, whether we have a military response or not, we need to prepare to have
a military response. Why are you on that when it comes to North Korea?

HIRONO: You can`t say that any option is off the table, but I very much
agree with Secretary of Defense Mattis that clearly the military route is
the last thing we ought to do, that we should pursue all other routes
including sanctions, including encouraging China to do more, including
possibly even Russia, although our relationship is not so good.

But nonetheless, every other avenues because if we take military action, I
think that would result in the death of thousands and thousands and
thousands of people.

TODD: I`ve got to ask about Hawaii state government has been on the front
lines of challenging this president`s authority and initiative when it
comes to – particularly when it it comes to some immigration policy.


TODD: Explain why it has been – why there`s more unity in Hawaii against
some of these proposals than there are in say other states.

HIRONO: Hawaii is definitely a state that really made up of waves of
immigrants that came to work on our plantations. And yes, we do have the
native people there, and that`s the cultural underpinnings of the state of

So we understand the importance of immigration policies. That`s why I`m
really proud that our attorney general went ahead and filed one of the
first challenges to the president`s executive order, which we call and
characterize as a Muslim ban.

TODD: Is there any part of what he`s trying to do in restrictive natures in
vetting that you do support?

HIRONO: I can`t think of any, really, because I think most of his policies
are very ill thought out, the ramifications of it. I think it shows a real
bias against minorities, and that`s not ever anything that I could support.

TODD: When – a lot was made when Senator McCain came back with his health
challenge. Got a lot of attention. At the same time, you`ve been dealing
with your own challenge and you had to make an extra effort and disrupt
your own care in order to get back in time for this health care vote. You
know, both – give me an update here. I know it`s kidney cancer.


TODD: How is it going and where are you headed next?

HIRONO: Well, I`m really glad that I was able to be diagnosed with it. It
was totally (INAUDIBLE) because my diagnosis came out when I was preparing
for a whole another surgery for which I have to get a full exam, physical

TODD: In a weird way –

HIRONO: I would never have found out about it if I wasn`t for another

TODD: It would have been too late.

HIRONO: It could have been too late because my cancer is already stage
four, which meant that it went from a primary site which is my kidney to my
rib. And I think if it had – if I had left it longer, it could have gone
to other parts of my body and that would have been really bad.

So, I`m grateful that it was discovered although I have to say that having
a cancer diagnosis threw me for a loop because I thought major illnesses
only happened to other people. I truly thought that because I had never
been hospitalized in my life except for age 17, and that was a false alarm.

TODD: Going through this, have you learned something about our health care
system that says, OK, now I think we got to go – you know, when you go
through it yourself –


TODD: – does it give you a different agenda when you come back when it
comes to health care?

HIRONO: I`ve been a vocal supporter of health care as a right, not a
privilege for years and years and years. And I mean, for my own life as an
immigrant and then growing up in this country with my mother who didn`t
have health insurance and, you know, she had a low paying job, so my
greatest fear growing up was really that she would get sick. And how could
we go to the doctor, so from a very early age, I knew the importance of
staying healthy and being able to have care when necessary.

But, yes, my own diagnosis lent a tremendous immediacy to the debate.
Hearing from literally thousands of people from Hawaii, 20,000 people or so
contacted me to say don`t take away my health care. It is important to
everybody. But as I said, certain immediacy to what so many people in our
country are going through.

TODD: Thanks for coming in and sharing your view.

HIRONO: Thank you.

TODD: Be safe going home. Just ahead, T.S. Eliot said April is the cruelest
month, but T.S. Eliot wasn`t a politician. Try August, buddy. We`ll be
right back.


TODD: Welcome back. Tonight, I`m obsessed with the idea that August is a
slow news month. No, wrong. August is the month where presidents dreams go
to die. The August 2011, debt ceiling fight leads to a downgrade in the
U.S. credit rating and President Obama`s approval rating hits a new low.

August 2009, Tea Party protests sabotage support for Obamacare. August
2005, President Bush`s sluggish response to hurricane “Katrina”
permanently damage his standing with the public. August 2001, President
Bush receives a classified review of intelligence entitled “Bin Laden
Determined to Strike in U.S.” August 1998, President Clinton testifies
before grand jury. August 1974, President Nixon resigns. August 1968,
police attack protesters outside the democratic national convention in

So sure congress can go home. Psychiatrists can disappear for a month. You
can head to the beach, but don`t be surprised if the political world gets
turned on its head again, just when you thought it was safe to go back in
the water. We`ll be right back.


TODD: Welcome back. Time for “The Lid.” It seems that National Security
Advisor H.R. McMaster has become the administration official that the Trump
base and the far right media loves to hate right now. Why? Well, McMaster
has ousted three national security council staffers in recent days, and
he`s concluded that Susan Rice did nothing wrong in terms of unmasking.

Well, that was enough to bring the (INAUDIBLE) out. The same forces who
consistently went after Reince Priebus seem to now see – they would like
to see McMaster go. And we`ve even heard talk that President Trump is
considering moving McMaster, whose only been in that role for six months,
to Afghanistan to oversee the war there. Hey get his fourth star is the way
it`s talked about.

The panel is back. Matthew Continetti, Carol Lee, Ruth Marcus. Carol, how
precarious is McMaster`s position right now in the White House?

precarious in the sense that it`s just not clear where this is headed
because he for the first time since he came in, his status is – he`s
openly being questioned. The leaks. There`s when this rumor started to
really heat up a few weeks ago that McMaster may replace the commander in
Afghanistan. His folks knew and thought it was coming from Steve Bannon.

TODD: Right.

LEE: They were really irritated. You know, he – this goes back to, you
remember, McMaster came in and made the early decision to revoke Steve
Bannon`s permanent seat on the national security council.

TODD: Important.

LEE: And so that – there`s the root. And then it just kind if went from
there and you`ve seen the president, yes, he withdrew from the Paris
agreement, but, you know, they convinced him to re-certify the Iran nuclear
deal and other things that where he`s won and where it`s really the
(INAUDIBLE) really is right now is Afghanistan.

TODD: Check out though just in the last 24 hours what some conservative
media that are very sympathetic to Bannon had done to McMaster. His
Breitbard. Multiple stories going after him. Who was the last editorial
director there? Steve Bannon. So unloading on him.

The leak of this letter that McMaster wrote to Susan Rice that allowed her
to keep her security clearance so she could refer to memos that she wrote.
Sort of standard book writing stuff. Matthew, what is going on here in that
community? Is this a Trump base like McMaster is now – being seated by the
Bannon world?

fight, but I also think Carol is right to say that there is actually a
policy dimension to this. We understand that, you know, President Trump
seems very concerned about the American position in Afghanistan. Upset
about the status of our forces there and almost approaching the 17th year
of war. What is the end state?

TODD: Perfectly reasonable. I mean, two presidents in a row have not liked

CONTINETTI: He`s hearing from foreign policy professionals the necessity to
stay there. It`s also Iran deal, also China. Remember, we`re supposed to
have an announcement of a more aggressive trade foster towards China. That
was delayed. And so the friction is not only inside the west wing, it`s
also between the president and the national security advisor.

TODD: Personnel policy.

RUTH MARCUS, COLUMNIST, THE WASHINGTON POST: I think that`s exactly right.
I think McMaster`s biggest problem isn`t with Bannon and isn`t with outside
forces gunning for him. It`s that he and the president are not really
working together well. There`s a terrific piece by colleague, Paul Rocker
(ph), about this. That`s online right now.

He talks about, he quotes somebody talking about how the president has a
two-minute attention span and McMaster is somebody who is providing the
president with information someone told me in ways that it`s not
comfortable for the president to gather it and take it in. So, the
president is frustrated I`m told with the way McMaster is delivering
information to him. That`s a problem.

TODD: Carol, I don`t think John Kelly would like to see McMaster go.

LEE: No.

TODD: OK. I don`t think anybody would advise the president that he want to
be on his third national security advisor before the end of the year
either. This is a tricky problem for them.

LEE: It`s a very tricky problem. How it shakes down, I think – I know
referring back to this Afghanistan – but I think what`s really significant
is going to continue to be significant. If McMaster can survive that, then
I think he`ll be OK. But, you know, yes, it would be unusual to have your
third national security advisor but with this president, I don`t think that
would be such a surprise.

MARCUS: Worse than unusual, really destabilizing and just about the last
thing that – what Trump would like right now are all of us to do stories
and columns that say it`s a whole new happy world in Trump land now and
General Kelly has come in and everything is stable. That would not go with
that narrative.

TODD: That said, if you`re going to make change I think because you just
brought in a chief of staff, you`re still in the oh, I`m assessing how
things are working window.


LEE: I also would say that even if the president was to get rid of
McMaster, there`s a bunch of loyal people to McMaster now in the National
Security Council. You still have this divide. They are not only are loyal
to him, but they also agree with the policies that he`s putting forward.
You would still have the same problem.

TODD: Matthew, discuss your point.

CONTINETTI: There`s a divide.

TODD: There`s actually a policy divide.

CONTINETTI: This is the president you remember who rebels against
structure, right? So, now he has General Kelly trying to impose some
discipline in terms of actually who has access to the oval office. The
structure of the NSC may be too much structure for President Trump.

TODD: All right. I`m going to leave it there. Another crazy week. After the
break. Thank you. After the break, a totally outrageous election result.
Wait until you see this one. We`ll be right back.


TODD: In case you missed it, maybe viewers of this show would never admit
it, but a lot of people don`t vote. What if your town had an election and
no one showed up? Well, in case you missed it, McIntire, Iowa had a zero
percent voter turnout in their special election on Tuesday.

That was not misstatement, zero. McIntire, just a 140 miles away from Des
Moines, has a population of 110. Their 70 registered voters had two ballot
issues to decide on last Tuesday. Proposition A, change the mayor`s term
from two years to four years. Proposition B, change the council members`
term from two years to four years.

County auditor had to issue a document with a blank tally because no one
showed up to vote. Yes, that means not even the current mayor or the
council members in question made their way to the polls. We know this for a
fact because we called the county to check because we were worried this
might be fake news.

As for the poll workers who did diligently manned their post for nine
hours, they were from the next town over and couldn`t vote. What happens
when no one shows up to vote? Well, in this case, of this special election,
no one voted in favor of extending the terms of the officials. So, they
shall remain the same. This is in Iowa of all places. You want to pick our
president. Come on, man.

That`s all for tonight. We`ll be back Monday with more “MTP Daily.” Of
course, if it`s Sunday, catch “Meet the Press” on your local NBC station.
“The Beat with Ari Melber” though starts right now. Ari, take it away.


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