The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell, Transcript 7/12/2016

Guests:
Annette Gordon-Reed, Marq Claxton, Wendy Davis, Howard Dean, Steve McMahon, Paul Butler
Transcript:

Show: THE LAST WORD WITH LAWRENCE O`DONNELL
Date: July 12, 2016
Guest: Annette Gordon-Reed, Marq Claxton, Wendy Davis, Howard Dean, Steve
McMahon, Paul Butler

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST: That does it for tonight, we`ll see you again
tomorrow, now it`s time for THE LAST WORD with Lawrence O`Donnell, good
evening Lawrence.

LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: Hey, Rachel, speaking of speaking at
conventions, Elizabeth Warren now scheduled to speak Monday night at the
Democratic convention, does that take her out of the race for VP?

MADDOW: Monday night is not VP night, traditionally speaking, right –

O`DONNELL: So –

MADDOW: So –

O`DONNELL: So, do we move our bets around here?

MADDOW: Yes.

O`DONNELL: Really?

MADDOW: I don`t know, I mean, they didn`t have to tell people that in
advance, it`s the only thing I`m thinking. It`s not that they list –
released a whole list of speakers, they just let that part leak.

So, maybe they`re trying to signal, trying to lower expectations around
Warren, I don`t know.

O`DONNELL: OK, I`m not – I`m not moving my Warren bet, because I bet
early on Warren and nothing is going to get me to change it, just
stubbornness now.

MADDOW: Pride going –

O`DONNELL: I`m hanging on that –

MADDOW: Before the fall, my friend.

O`DONNELL: OK, thanks, Rachel.

MADDOW: Thanks Lawrence.

O`DONNELL: President Obama is at his best as a public speaker when he`s
reaching beyond policy to say something bigger about American life.

Particularly, the pain of American life in the face of national tragedies.
That`s when you hear him blend speech with sermon.

He was at his best today in Dallas saying things that no president before
him would have been able to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The people of Dallas, people
across the country are suffering.

GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Too often we judge
other groups by their worst examples, while judging ourselves by our best
intentions.

DAVID BROWN, CHIEF, DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT: These five men gave their
lives for all of us.

OBAMA: When the bullets started flying, the men and women of the Dallas
police, they did not flinch and they did not react recklessly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am in awe of our Dallas police officers.

(APPLAUSE)

OBAMA: I`m here to insist that we are not as divided as we seem. Even
those who dislike the phrase, black lives matter, surely we should be able
to hear the pain of all the Sterling`s family.

BUSH: We do not want the unity of grief nor we want the unity of fear. We
want the unity of hope, affection, and higher purpose.

OBAMA: We can decide to come together and make our country reflect the
good inside us. May God bless this country that we love.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: We have had exactly one president who could comment wisely from
his own experience on what happened last week in Baton Rouge, Minnesota,
and Dallas.

And that president did that today at a memorial service in Dallas for the
five police officers who were murdered there on Thursday night by a
mentally disturbed army veteran who was seeking revenge for black people
who have been killed by police.

Before President Obama spoke today, we got a short glimpse of what previous
presidents could offer in these situations from former President George W.
Bush.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: Most of us imagine at the moment called for that we would risk our
lives to protect a spouse, or a child.

Those who are in uniform assumed that risk for the safety of strangers.
They and their families share the unspoken knowledge that each new day can
bring new dangers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: President Bush`s seven-minute speech was a good speech that
said nothing that anyone could disagree with.

It was filled with properly placed sympathy for the police officers and
their families. It contained multiple references to God, and he spoke
directly and movingly to the wives and children of the five officers who
were killed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: Your loved one`s time with you was too short. They did not get a
chance to properly say good-bye, but they went where duty called.

They defended us, even to the end. They finished well. We will not forget
what they did for us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: President Bush in these short time that he had to speak did not
mention the reason those police officers were working that night.

He did not mention the protesters who those police officers were
protecting. He did not mention the killings by police of Alton Sterling in
Baton Rouge and Philando Castile in Minnesota that inspired those
protesters to take to the streets that night.

He didn`t use the phrase “black lives matter”. It is possible if President
Bush was still in office and had more time to speak today, that he would
have mentioned some of those things.

But it is also possible that he wouldn`t have because prior to the Obama
presidency, all presidential speeches in moments of national mourning took
no chances.

No president ever wanted to raise the possibility of any kind of
disagreement over anything he said at such an event.

No president was willing to take that risk, and every previous president
spoke from the perspective of a white man in America.

Most of those presidents were elected before women had the right to vote.
And it is hard to find speeches from those presidents that even hinted out
of concern for the experience of women in America, or black people.

The best our first 43 presidents could do was empathize, empathize with
black people. And most of them didn`t bother to do that.

When President Obama leaves office, we will not see a presidential speech
like we saw today for a very long time.

It began with a spontaneous joke. President Obama was introduced by Dallas
Police Chief David Brown who quoted Stevie Wonder lyrics in his comments.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Chief Brown, I`m so glad I met Michelle first because she loves
Stevie Wonder.

(LAUGHTER)

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: The President began by talking about each of the officers
killed. Lorne Aherns, Michael Krol, Michael Smith, Patrick Zamarripa and
Brent Thompson.

He included touching details about each one of them. And he did not shy
away from the reason they were working Thursday night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Like police officers across the country, these men and their
families shared a commitment to something larger than themselves.

They weren`t looking for their names to be up in lights. They`d tell you
the pay was decent, but wouldn`t make you rich.

They could have told you about the stress and long shifts. And they`d
probably agree with Chief Brown when he said the cops don`t expect to hear
the words, thank you very often, especially from those who need them the
most.

No, the reward comes in knowing that our entire way of life in America
depends on the rule of law. That the maintenance of that law is a hard and
daily labor.

That in this country, we don`t have soldiers in the streets or militias
setting the rules, instead, we have public servants, police officers, like
the men who were taken away from us.

And that`s what these five were doing last Thursday. When they were
assigned to protect and keep orderly a peaceful protest in response to the
killing of Alton Sterling of Baton Rouge and Philando Castile in Minnesota,
they were upholding the constitutional rights of this country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: The President offered optimism, not from the presidential
perspective of a white man who has never faced adversity, but from his own
experience of progress in his own lifetime.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: I know that Americans are struggling right now with what we`ve
witnessed over the past week. First, the shootings in Minnesota and Baton
Rouge, the protests, and the targeting of police by the shooter here.

An act not just of demented violence but of racial hatred, all of it has
left us wounded and angry and hurt. But, Dallas I`m here to say, we must
reject such despair.

I`m here to insist that we are not as divided as we seem. And I know that
because I know America. I know how far we`ve come against impossible odds.

(APPLAUSE)

I know we`ll make it because of what I`ve experienced in my own life. What
I`ve seen of this country and its people, their goodness and decency as
president of the United States.

Everyone was helping each other, one witness said. It wasn`t about black
or white. Everyone was picking each other up and moving them away.

See, that`s the America I know. The police helped Shetamia Taylor as she
was shot trying to shield her four sons.

She said she wanted her boys to join her to protest the incidents of black
men being killed. She also said to the Dallas PD, thank you for being
heroes.

And today her 12-year-old son wants to be a cop when he grows up, that`s
the America I know.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Joining us now in Annette Gordon-Reed, professor of law and
history at Harvard Law School, also with us Marq Claxton; director of the
Black Law Enforcement Alliance and a retired NYPD detective.

Professor, the capacity that this president has to talk about these issues
to weave them together, to not lose sight of why those officers were
working that night.

These are things we haven`t seen in any kind of presidential speeches of
this sort.

ANNETTE GORDON-REED, PROFESSOR OF LAW AND HISTORY, HARVARD LAW SCHOOL:
Well, as you said, he has a unique capacity to do it because of who he is,
the first African-American president who has had a – you know, a foot in
the world of Sterling and other – the people who were – who were shot as
a black man.

And also a person who is the head of the country and has to speak to law
enforcement and is a person who understands how important that is.

So, he has to bridge that gap. And he is perfectly suited to do that. His
great rhetorical skills, his great sensitivity, and what he has seen in his
life as he said, has given him all the talent and the capacity to do this.

O`DONNELL: And Marq, he began as was so appropriate, with a very personal
comments about each one of the police officers who were shot.

He never lost sight once the speech got underway of all of the various
elements that were involved in this speech and the various audiences he was
talking to.

Give us your reading on how well he did with the law enforcement audience
that he was speaking to today.

MARQ CLAXTON, DIRECTOR, BLACK LAW ENFORCEMENT ALLIANCE & RETIRED DETECTIVE,
NEW YORK CITY POLICE DEPARTMENT: This was a brilliant presentation by the
president. It was an honorable, decent, respectable memorial.

He personalized each of those five police victims. He made reference to
family and personal matters. Those things resonate not only with the law
enforcement community, but with the nation.

And to add on top of that, a speech that is – that was historic, yes, and
necessary and timely that was wide ranging, that dealt with so many issues
and make a general appeal, not only to our humanity as human beings, not
only to our humanity, but to our sensibilities.

He spoke of things that we all know, even if we don`t – if we don`t admit
them publicly, we all know these things.

And finally, it was a call to action. So, it really was a very moving,
touching and historic presentation by the president.

O`DONNELL: Let`s listen to what the President said about “black lives
matter”.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: And even those who dislike the phrase, black lives matter, surely
we should be able to hear the pain of Alton Sterling`s family.

(APPLAUSE)

We should – when we hear a friend describe them by saying that whatever he
cooked, he cooked enough for everybody, that should sound familiar to us,
that maybe he wasn`t so different than us.

So that we can – yes, insist that his life matters. Just as we should
hear the students and co-workers describe their affection for Philando
Castile as a gentle soul – Mr. Rogers with dreadlocks, they called him.

And know that his life mattered to a whole lot of people of all races of
all ages, and that we had to do what we can without putting officers lives
at risk, but to do better to prevent another life like his from being lost.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Professor, you can imagine with any other White House, the
notion of mentioning black lives matter in this speech to this audience and
a memorial for police officers.

Everybody in the speechwriting room would have been voting against it. But
Barack Obama is the speechwriter-in-chief. This –

GORDON-REED: Yes –

O`DONNELL: Is – he definitely – he has help, but people do drafts. But
he is the one who makes these decisions.

GORDON-REED: It`s clearly very personal to him. Because he understands
that this is an on-going problem.

I mean, the murder of the police officers, the horrific thing, but you
can`t lose sight of the problem that exists that brought them all together,
as you said.

This is a matter of black citizenship. It`s a matter of the constitution
and something that`s not just in the city of Dallas, it`s all over the
country.

It`s a state versus citizen question and it`s something that the President
of the United States, the executive, has to deal with.

He can`t shake that. But you`re right, he`s in a position – he`s probably
in a better position, more inclined to try to do it than presidents in the
past.

But it`s something that he realizes that he just has to do, we can`t let
this horrific event take our eye off the ball and understand that this is a
huge problem.

O`DONNELL: Let`s listen to what could be on the horizon for these kinds of
events in the future, the Republican presidential nominee on Bill
O`Reilly`s show talking about this tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: It`s a very very sad situation, and hopefully it could be healed.
We have a divider as a president, he`s the great divider.

I`ve said it for a long time, and it`s probably not been much worse at any
time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Marq Claxton, so, there you have an older white man, grew up
rich in New York City of inherited wealth, who says, it has not been worse
in America than it is now.

There are a few things that he apparently doesn`t remember.

CLAXTON: There`s a lot that he doesn`t remember, and there are many things
that he`s never learned. But it`s quite clear that even in what Mr. Trump
said there, there`s a void – there`s – he`s uncomfortable with talking
about the issue.

What is the “it”? What is the “it” that he referred to? What made President
Obama`s presentation today so courageous?

It`s because whether or not you agreed with any position, whether or not
you agreed that he should mention, you know, Philando Castile and Alton
Sterling or black lives matter.

Whether or not you agreed with that, you respect the courage and the
obvious commitment that the President made today by forcing us to hear, to
listen and to face some harsh realities that we often deny.

O`DONNELL: Annette Gordon-Reed and Marq Claxton, thank you both for
joining us tonight, really appreciate it.

GORDON-REED: Good to be here.

O`DONNELL: Thank you, Lawrence.

GORDON-REED: Thank you.

O`DONNELL: Coming up, why Philando Castile was pulled over. First, police
said a broken taillight, now police tapes tell a different story, we will
play that audio for you.

And Bernie Sanders finally joins forces with Hillary Clinton, he gives her
the big endorsement today and Donald Trump had a lot to say about that –
well, he actually had a lot to tweet about that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH, FORMER FLORIDA GOVERNOR: If you believe like I do that the
presidency is sacred ground, and you want a president that upholds the
constitution, and I don`t believe either one of the candidates fulfills
that primary kind of objective, then I can`t vote for either one of them.

I can`t vote for Hillary Clinton and I can`t vote for Donald Trump and it
breaks my heart.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Avid Msnbc watcher Donald Trump reacted to that tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Well, I watched and I actually felt badly for him. He`s talking
about upholding the constitution, but he doesn`t uphold his pledge.

He signed an irrevocable pledge. It was a pledge, not you know, subject to
whims and whatever he might think or his loss.

He signed a pledge. If you read that pledge, you`ll see it is a strong
statement that he will support the candidate, the nominee.

And he has violated that, which means that he has signed something and he
has totally violated it. Now, I don`t need his support.

I mean, I`m fine with that, his support, obviously. If I would have lost,
I will tell you, I would have honored that pledge.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Up next, the Bernie-Hillary hug – not so much a hug. It was
like an arm around each other, sort of thing for a bit.

Finally, less than two weeks to go before the Democratic Convention and
Bernie Sanders joins forces with Hillary Clinton, that`s next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), VERMONT: Secretary Clinton has won the Democratic
nominating process and I congratulate her for that.

(CHEERS)

She will be the Democratic nominee for president and I intend to do
everything I can to make certain she will be the next president of the
United States.

(CHEERS)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: And so today Senator Bernie Sanders gave up the Secret Service
protection according to a major presidential candidate.

Today, in New Hampshire, the scene of Bernie Sanders first big win over
Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders did what runner`s up for the nomination
always do in these kinds of situations, emphasize the policies he and the
nominee agree on and remind his voters of the only alternative left to
Hillary Clinton.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: While Hillary Clinton supports making our tax code fairer and
more progressive, Donald Trump wants to give hundreds of billions of
dollars in tax breaks to the very wealthiest people in this country.

CLINTON: Senator Sanders and I will spare no effort to make sure the
people of America know that once again Trump and his cronies are trying to
pull the wool over our eyes and come back with the same failed policies
that hurt us before.

We`re not going to let them get away with it, again.

(CHEERS)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Donald Trump`s first reaction was, as always, on Twitter, he
tweeted, “Bernie Sanders endorsing crooked Hillary Clinton is like Occupy
Wall Street endorsing Goldman Sachs.

Bernie Sanders has abandoned his supporters by endorsing pro-war, pro-TPP,
pro-Wall Street, crooked Hillary Clinton.

To all the Bernie Sanders – Bernie voters who want to stop bad trade deals
and global special interests, we welcome you with open arms, people first.”

Joining us now, two Hillary Clinton supporters, Howard Dean; former
governor of Vermont and former chairman of the Democratic Party and an
Msnbc political analyst.

And Wendy Davis; a former member of the Texas State Senate. Senator Davis,
it was a long time coming, but it – was there anything you were hoping for
from Bernie Sanders today that you didn`t hear?

WENDY DAVIS, FORMER MEMBER, TEXAS STATE SENATE: Not at all, Lawrence. I
thought he did a remarkable job of pointing out the reasons why unifying
behind Hillary Clinton is so important.

And I think he did it in a very robust way and made it clear to his
supporters and to everyone in this country that he`s going to throw his
full weight and force behind Hillary Clinton and do everything that he can
to bring his supporters along with him.

O`DONNELL: Howard Dean, a personal moment here about your friend Bernie
Sanders and fellow Vermonter and – this is something you`ve been through.

Today, it was the – it`s happened before today. It was coming to today,
the plane came in for a landing as it were.

But really, his life and a life of presidential candidate is like being run
by jet engines for months and months and months and sometimes longer than
that.

And then suddenly, very suddenly, it stops. Everything stops today for
Bernie Sanders. He gives up the Secret Service protection.

There`s nothing left to the candidacy of Bernie Sanders, how does he feel
tonight? How does he go through the next week or so, the next couple of
weeks?

What is the – what is the emotional space he is in now?

HOWARD DEAN, FORMER VERMONT GOVERNOR: Well, my guess is he goes back to
Vermont for a few weeks and takes it easy and do what I did.

Which is clean out my garage and all the kinds of stuff I hadn`t done for a
year and a half when I was on the trail. This is not the end of the
campaign trail for Bernie Sanders, nor was it for me in 2004.

I went out and campaigned like crazy for John Kerry. Bernie, I think he`s
going to go out all over the place. He got a lot out of this. He got a
lot in that platform that he wanted.

I think he`s done the country a great service and I think he`s done the
Democratic Party a great service. So, I think you`re going to see a lot
more of Bernie Sanders between now and November.

O`DONNELL: Let`s listen to what Donald Trump had to say tonight,
especially to Bernie Sanders` supporters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Today, I see Bernie Sanders gave her this very – you know, sort of
strange endorsement. I want to tell you a lot of Bernie Sanders people are
so upset about it, they`re going to be voting for Trump. I really believe
that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Let`s take a look at some of the polls on this. Recent Pew
poll says 85 percent of Sanders supporters will vote for Secretary Clinton,
9 percent say they will support Trump.

That`s better than at this point in 2008 where 69 percent of Clinton
supporters said they would support President Obama and only – and 16
percent said they would vote for John McCain.

And then in the end, 16 percent really did vote for John McCain. The exit
polls show that 16 percent of Hillary Clinton`s primary supporters voted
for John McCain.

And Wendy Davis, right now Donald Trump shows only 9 percent of Sanders`
supporters, so, he`s already underperforming John McCain on attracting
Democratic voters.

DAVIS: No question about it. And I think he`s only going to go down from
here, Lawrence. I think what happened today with Bernie Sanders and
Hillary Clinton was really symbolic of where we find ourselves as a
country.

A group of people who are coming together and understanding the importance
of unity and facing someone who is very divisive at a time when we clearly
need healing.

I think we`re going to see going into these next few months an even greater
force of Democrats and independents, and hopefully some moderate
Republicans coming together around the idea that we need to be a country
that is unified and in support of each other.

And we`ll even pull farther away from those numbers that you see saying
they`ll support Donald Trump right now.

O`DONNELL: Let`s listen to something Bernie Sanders said on the stage
which you don`t usually hear in these kinds of endorsement speeches.

He was talking about how well he did and what he did in the delegate-count,
let`s listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: Our campaign won the primaries and caucuses in 22 states and when
the roll call at the Democratic National Convention is announced, it will
show that we won almost 1,900 delegates –

(CHEERS)

Far more than almost anyone thought we could win.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Howard Dean, that`s the one thing that people tend to leave out
when they`re doing this endorsement of the nominee.

DEAN: Yeah. It`s not entirely clear why he wants to do that, except that
I do think that a lot – I mean, normally you`ll do what Hillary did, which
is let it go and let it be, again, unanimous and so forth. But, I`ve been
to conventions before where they`ve gone all the way to the delegate count
and had to vote, and then some of them usually move to make it unanimous.

But, you know, Bernie`s people are deeply committed. And my attitude is,
look, if this is what it takes to make them feel like they have really done
their best for the country, then they should do it. I don`t have a big
problem with that. All of this stuff has been negotiated out between
Bernie and Hillary. I guarantee you that was an enthusiastic endorsement.
And that would not have happen if this step would have not all been
negotiated out. So I`m not at all worried about what`s going to go on
inside the convention hall at all.

O`DONNELL: Yeah. I took that, actually, to be a message of respect from
the candidate to his supporters to show them, “Yes, this is what you did.”

DEAN: I think that`s right.

O`DONNELL: “This is what you achieved.” He also made promises about going
all the way to the convention. And he had to, I think, today keep some of
the air of that alive and credit his supporters with what they did. But
we`re out of the time for this segment. Howard Dean, Wendy Davis, thank
you both for joining us tonight.

DEAN: Thank you.

O`DONNELL: Appreciate it.

WENDY DAVIS, (D) TEXAS: Thank you.

O`DONNELL: Up next in the war room, reading the clues is Elizabeth Warren
now off the Clinton V.P list and who is Donald Trump going to team up with?
Bill O`Reilly, as usual, thinks he knows.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: And on tonight`s campaign war room, Senior Trump sources told
NBC News today that Donald Trump plans to roll out his vice presidential
selection on Friday at a joint campaign appearance. According to an
interview with the “New York Times,” Donald Trump now says his short list
of V.P. choices is, “Five candidates plus two, two that are unknown to
anybody.” OK, Donald, that`s called a long list. Short lists are shorter
than that, like, two, three.

Tonight, Donald Trump was joined at a campaign rally by one of the
candidates on his list, Indiana Governor Mike Pence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. MIKE PENCE, (R) INDIANA: Donald Trump knows that the boundless
potential of the American people awaits and we can make America great
again. We must select the strong leader for one more reason, because
Hillary Clinton must never become president of the United States of
America.

To paraphrase the director of the FBI, I think it would be extremely
careless to elect Hillary Clinton as the next president of the United
States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: In an interview with Bill O`Reilly, tonight, Donald Trump did
not argue when Bill O`Reilly said that he Bill O`Reilly could tell that
Donald Trump had already decided on either Mike Pence or Newt Gingrich.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL O`REILLY, FOX NEWS HOST: Are people going to be surprised or is it
one of the people that have been bantered around and predicted?

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Well, Bill, I`m not
doing this for surprises. I`m not doing this for games. I`m doing this
because I want to fix somebody .

(CROSSTALK)

O`REILLY: OK, so it`s either Pence – help me get elected – but also that
.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Well, 118 days left for the presidential campaign war room,
joining us tonight, in the “Last Word” war room is Steve McMahon, a veteran
of Governor Howard Dean`s 2004 presidential campaign forum.

Steve, first of the Republican V.P. choice, what do you see there?

STEVE MCMAHON, CEO & CO-FOUNDER, PURPLE STRATEGIES: Well, I mean, it does
seem to be narrowing to a group that includes Mike Pence, who you saw just
now, and if that`s the best material he has, then I like Elizabeth Warren`s
chances. And Chris Christie who would be sort of doubling down on bravado,
if you will or braggadociousness (ph) and, you know, and .

O`DONNELL: Newt Gingrich is – hope a lot for Newt Gingrich.

MCMAHON: Yeah, I`m sorry, I`m sorry. How could I forget Newt Gingrich?
Yeah, it does seem to be sort of – that`s the cohort that most people are
talking about right now. “TIME” magazine, in fact, earlier today broke
something that said that those were the three that were sort of remaining.
And they seem to be the three most likely and most plausible.

I think Chris Christie, probably, you know, he brings a lot in terms of
like, you know, his campaign skills and his willingness to sort of say
anything and to kind of act like Trump, but Trump has said himself that
he`s very interested in somebody with Washington experienced and somebody
who could help him navigate the government if God forbid he becomes
president. And so I think that will give Mike Pence or Newt Gingrich a
real edge.

O`DONNELL: I know – I don`t think Christie has a chance. Bridgegate is
not over. He`s going to have to testify in two trials involving
Bridgegate. A lot of pun dents seem to think it`s over, it`s not. And
also, there`s that wonderful video of Donald Trump, of course, saying that
Chris Christie knew all about Bridgegate beforehand and that Christie has
been lying about it.

I`ve got to bet on Pence as of tonight with the combination of Washington
experienced that Trump has mentioned and a conservative background and a
more conservative – behaviorally conservative personal history, shall we
say than Newt Gingrich.

MCMAHON: Yeah. Well, let me just say about Chris Christie, since
Bridgegate and since Donald Trump said that he`s gotten very, very good at
holding Donald Trump`s coat and calling him Mr. Trump. And I think those
two things alone might really argue for him inside Donald Trump`s mind.

I do agree with you, though, about Mike Pence. If you look at his resume,
he`s somebody who was in Washington. He was the head of the Republican
policy group. He`s thought by conservatives to be both thoughtful and
principled and conservative. He`s not very popular in Indiana. They`ll be
a lot of Republicans there who`d be happy to see him sort of release his
place on the ticket to former Governor Mitch Daniels who I guess would like
to run for that job, again. So, there are some good arguments for Mike
Pence.

It does seem, though, that Donald Trump has a pretty close connection with
Newt Gingrich. Newt Gingrich, you know, is a very thoughtful guy. I don`t
agree with him on much, but he`s a pretty good campaigner. He`s a pretty
good debater. He`s a pretty quick with the one liner.

And Mike Pence to me, you know, if you think about a vice president as
somebody who wants to be out there, making a case, making it persuasively
being the attack dog, you know, Mike Pence just watching that video tonight
didn`t seem to me to kind of convey that. But, maybe he`s got it in him, I
just didn`t see it.

O`DONNELL: So what signal do we take about Elizabeth Warren being listed
as a scheduled convention speaker, Monday night?

MCMAHON: Well, I think it could be head fake. I mean, remember in 1992,
Bill Clinton decided, you know, he was a young relatively inexperienced
governor from Arkansas, and who would then double down on youth and
experience by selecting someone like Al Gore, which is what Bill Clinton
did, it worked brilliantly for him.

I`m sort of with you, Lawrence. I think, you know, Elizabeth Warren brings
an awful lot to this ticket if she were selected. The fact that she`s been
announced as a speaker on Monday night, I think it could be a head fake of
its own. She`s very good. She gets Donald Trump`s – gets under his skin.
And she would be a fabulous campaigner. I hope Hillary Clinton does it.

O`DONNELL: Look, it could be as simple as Hillary Clinton has not yet
decided, so in the meantime, Elizabeth Warren is scheduled for Monday
night.

MCMAHON: That`s right.

O`DONNELL: But, she could end up on a different night with the different
role. Steve McMahon, thank you very much for joining us on tonight`s war
room. I really appreciate it.

MCMAHON: Thank you.

O`DONNELL: Coming up, the audiotape that is raising new questions about
why Philando Castile was pulled over before being fatally shot by police.
And did Ruth Bader Ginsburg cross the line in commenting on candidate
Donald Trump? The answer is coming up. But here is a hint, there is no
line.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: Ruth Bader Ginsburg versus Donald Trump, that`s coming up, but
first, here is how it looked today on the campaign trail.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: Hillary Clinton will make an outstanding president.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bernie Sanders said, “Oh, you know what, I`m with her.”

HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Thank you Bernie
for your endorsement.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That is exactly what the Hillary Clinton campaign has
been hoping for, for many months.

SANDERS: We have begun a political revolution.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He basically took his stump speech and instead of
rewriting it, he wove Hillary Clinton into it.

SANDERS: And that revolution continues.

CLINTON: We are stronger together.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And we vote for her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, I`m going to wait throughout to the
convention to make that decision?

SANDERS: While Donald Trump is busy insulting Mexicans and Muslims.

TRUMP: Who is going to pay for the wall? Now, will you see a wall is?

Walls don`t have bathrooms and bathrooms are always tough.

CLINTON: We are joining forces to defeat Donald Trump.

TRUMP: We have crooked Hillary Clinton as crooked as you get.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pence, stumping with Trump in Indiana tonight in the
final scheduled running mate try out.

PENCE: We`re ready for Donald Trump to be our next president.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trump continues to stir up speculation about his vice
presidential pick.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No decision as of yet has been officially made.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How will you deal with disagreements you might have
with Donald Trump?

PENCE: I haven`t agreed with every one of my Republican colleagues or
Democrat colleagues on every issue. I believe he represents the kind of
strong leadership at home and abroad that will to borrow a phrase, make
America great again.

TRUMP: Where are my protesters? I want some protests.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: NBC`s affiliate in Minneapolis K-A-R-E has obtained police
audio recordings that indicate why police pulled over Philando Castile.
Last week police indicated that he had been pulled over because of a broken
taillight. These police radio calls, not yet independently authenticated
by NBC News tell a very different story. NBC News Blake McCoy has the
latest.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh my God, please don`t tell me he`s dead.

BLAKE MCCOY, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: In this video streamed live to
Facebook after Philando Castile was killed by police. His girlfriend said
they were pulled over for a broken taillight.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You shot four bullets into him, sir.

MCCOY: But in new audio obtained by our affiliate KARE-T.V., but not
authenticated by NBC News, officers suggested a different reason.

OFFICER JERONIMO YANEZ, ST. ANTHONY POLICE DEPARTMENT: I`m going to check
I.D. I have reason to pull it over. The two occupants just look like
people that were involved in a robbery. The driver looks more like one of
our suspects, just because of wide set nose.

GLENDA HATCHETT, CASTILE FAMILY ATTORNEY: It is not just this family`s
loss.

MCCOY: The Castile family attorney is T.V. Judge Glenda Hatchett.

What does that tell you?

HATCHETT: That tells me that I`ll see him in court. You pull over
somebody because of a wide set nose. I have a wide set nose. I mean, come
on. And how does it change from a busted taillight at one point to a wide
set nose?

MCCOY: These pictures from a convenient store robbery two miles away from
the shooting scene show the suspect`s police were looking for. This is
Castile.

The attorney representing Officer Jeronimo Yanez confirmed the details in
the audio recording, but says his client shot Castile because he had a gun,
not because of his race.

Castile`s girlfriend said they informed the officer of the gun and a
licensed to carry, when the officer opened fire, her 4-year-old was in the
backseat.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said, “OK, I`m right here with you.”

MCCOY: Castile`s mother, Valerie, now plans to file a civil lawsuit.

VALERIE CASTILE, PHILANDO CASTILE`S MOTHER: My son, abide by the law and
he was killed by the law.

MCCOY: Today, President Obama called to offer his condolences.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: NBC`s Blake McCoy, thanks.

Still ahead, Ruth Bader Ginsburg criticizes Donald Trump and then she gets
criticized for being too political. Too political? Tell that to the
Supreme Court justices who actually ran for president while still serving
on the Supreme Court.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg is being criticized
for criticizing Donald Trump. In Monday`s “New York Times” she said, “I
can`t imagine what the country would be with Donald Trump as our
president.”

Today she told CNN, “He is a faker. He has no consistency about him. He
says whatever comes into his head at the moment. He really has an ego.”

Here is some of the criticism Ruth Bader Ginsburg faced today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNEL, (R-KY) MAJORITY LEADER: It seems to me that it`s
totally inappropriate for a member of the Supreme Court to be weighing in
on an American election. It raises the level of skepticism that the
American people have from time to time about just how objective the Supreme
Court is.

REP. LAMAR SMITH, (R) TEXAS: It will be difficult for the American people
to believe Justice Ginsburg can be impartial. Her verbal attack on Donald
Trump only contributes to the public`s feeling that the justice system
maybe rigged.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Justice Ginsburg did not cross the line in commenting on
politics because there is no line. There is nothing that prevents a
Supreme Court Justice from commenting on politics or politicians. There`s
nothing that prevents Ruth Bader Ginsburg from running for president
herself while still a Supreme Court Justice.

In 1866, Justice John McLean ran for the Republican presidential nomination
and lost. In 1868 and 1872, Chief Justice Salmon Chase ran for the
Democratic presidential nomination and lost both times. In 1880 and 1884,
Justice Stephen Field ran for the Democratic presidential nomination and
lost both times.

Joining us now, Paul Butler, Law Professor at Georgetown University and a
former federal prosecutor. Professor, Mitch McConnell saying it`s totally
inappropriate for the Supreme Court to be weighing in on an American
election, he seems to forget the reason John Jay, our first Chief Justice
left.

He – while Chief Justice John Jay ran for governor of New York and lost
and then he ran for governor of New York, again, and won and that`s why he
left being our first Chief Justice. A lot seems to have been forgotten
today.

PAUL BUTLER, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Yeah, it sounds like the senator
could use our history lesson. Look, no one expects that Supreme Court
Justices should weigh in on every election all the time and in fact, the
lower court, lower federal court judges do that. They get in trouble.
That`s a violation of the Canon of Ethics, but that explicitly does not
apply to Supreme Court Justices. There`s a reason they`re called the
Supremes. And in fact they express political points of view all the time.

Justice Scalia famously went duck hunting with Vice President Cheney
including when Cheney had a matter before the court during the State of
Union Address that couple of years ago. Justice Alito just – could not
disguise his disdain for President Obama, shaking his head at him at some
point.

So the issue isn`t whether Justices have points of view including about
political candidates, it`s whether – instead they can be fair, whether
they can put those points of view aside and consider a case fairly and
there`s no reason to think that the notorious Justice Ginsburg couldn`t do
that.

O`DONNELL: And what is true is that in the modern custom that we`ve been
seeing during our lifetimes, it is unusual for Justices to make these kinds
of comments, but it is just a tradition. There`s nothing written down that
prevents them from doing it.

I want to raise something that Jeffrey Toobin, who does know a lot about
the modern court and its traditions, what he said today that historically
this isn`t done, he means, of course, in modern history. And then he said
if something like Bush v. Gore were to end up in front of the Supreme Court
as a result of this presidential election, Jeffrey Toobin said, “I don`t
see how she can`t recuse herself.” He would think she would have to recuse
herself as a result of what she said today. What`s your reaction to that?

BUTLER: You know, that`s not how it usually works. If one of the justices
has a real conflict of interest, for example, she owns stock in a company
that has a matter before the court, that`s when they recuse themselves or -
- as the example of Justice Kagan, she actually worked on the affirmative
action case when she was at the Justice Department. So that was a good
reason to recuse herself.

The justices decide on their own, there`s no formal rules. So I don`t see
why she would have to recuse herself in this – in any matter that came
before the court. Again, all she`s doing to being more transparent about
her views. I think it`s fair to assume that all the justices have points
of view of Donald Trump. She` just saying what she thinks.

O`DONNELL: Paul Butler gets the night`s LAST WORD.

Chris Hayes is up next.


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
BE UPDATED.
END

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