Pres. Trump TRANSCRIPT: 6/5/20, MSNBC Live

Donna Edwards, Steve Schmidt, Michele Norris, Madeleine Albright


ARI MELBER, MSNBC HOST: We`re posting some of these extra artist interviews

we`ve done in full length there on YouTube. You can always find more if you

want it. But that`s the end of our time. I wish you a very safe weekend.


Keep it right here on MSNBC.


JOY REID, MSNBC HOST: Good evening. I`m Joy Reid.


Well, today was yet another day when I`m going to tell you that this was

the strangest day yet in the Donald Trump Presidency. Donald Trump this

afternoon invoked the name of George Floyd in the middle of a speech

gloating about the latest unemployment numbers. And he did this just

moments after he called on law enforcement, whom we`ve been watching

respond in some cases brutally to the protests over George Floyd`s murder

by police, he called them in to dominate the streets against those very

same protesters.


Now, I find it hard to believe when I first heard from the producers of

this hour about what Donald Trump said. You might too. So I want you to

take a look at this truly bizarre moment.





down right now and say, this is a great thing that`s happening for our

country. It is a great day for him. It`s a great day for everybody. It`s a

great day for everybody. This is a great, great day in terms of equality.

It`s really what our Constitution requires and it`s what our country is all





REID: I`m sorry, why? Why would today be a great day for George Floyd who

is very much dead with four fired police officers charged with murder and

accessory to murder and with no legislation passed this far, so far curbing

police abuse or any other things that went into his death? Why would today

be a great day for George Floyd?


Donald Trump`s speech wasn`t even focused on George Floyd. It was largely

focused on that new economic data with Trump bragging that the unemployment

rate has dropped to 13 percent. 13 percent unemployment, as you may know,

is still the highest rate since the great depression. Nothing to brag

about, Mr. President.


At the same time, Trump dismissed questions about how or even if he plans

to address systemic racism. When pressed, he said, the solution to the

problem of racism is a better economy.





don`t you have a plan for systemic racism? And Mr. President, why haven`t

you laid out a plan to address systemic racism.


TRUMP: I`d like sign this bill. It`s a very different on. And by the way,

what happened to our country and what you now see has been happening is the

greatest thing that could happen for race relations, for the African-

American community, for the Asian-American, for the Hispanic-American

community, women, for everything.


ALCINDOR: What is your plan?


TRUMP: Because our country is so strong, and that`s what my plan is.


ALCINDOR: Black employment went up by 0.1 percent, Asian-American

unemployment went up by 0.5 percent. How was that a victory?


TRUMP: You are something. Thank you very much.




REID: This comes as a new ABC News poll finds that only 32 percent of

Americans, only 32 percent approve of Trump`s response to Floyd`s killing,

while a whopping 66 percent disapprove. That poll also shows that a vast

majority of Americans, 74 percent say George Floyd`s death is a part of a

broader problem of racial injustice in this country while only 26 percent

view it is an isolated incident, a big change to how that kind of a

question polled just a few years ago when we first heard of the movement

called, Black Lives Matter.


And on the day of Trump`s bizarre, weird, braggadocios, the mayor of the

nation`s capital, Mayor Bowser, literally took the fight against Trump and

William Barr`s militarization of D.C. to the streets. And she did it right

in Trump`s front yard.


This morning the mayor had the street leading to the White House painted

with the words, Black Lives Matter. That`s the cross street above the

intersection where park police and national guard troops forcibly cleared

peaceful protesters on Monday night with tear gas.


Not only that, but Mayor Bowser officially renamed that portion of the

street Black Lives Matter Plaza, while demanding that the troops leave her



I`m joined now by Donna Edwards, former Congresswoman from Maryland, and

Steve Schmidt, former Republican and Political Strategist. Thank you both

for being here.


Donna Edwards, I`m going to give each of you a chance to respond to the

great day for George Floyd comment by the president. You first, Donna.


FMR. REP. DONNA EDWARDS (D-MD): You know what, I`ll tell you, Joy, just

when we think that the president can`t do any worse, he actually does

worse. I mean, this was so – I mean, first of all, he`s really not said

anything to give voice to the pain of George Floyd`s family, at seeing him

murdered like that. He hasn`t given voice to the pain and the anger that`s

being felt not just by black America but all America. And here he does –

he invokes George Floyd`s name in the middle of touting an economy that`s

still the worst that we`ve seen since the great depression. It`s really



And I think, you know, I want all of those millions of people who are out

there on the streets, I want them to get their pens and to register to

vote, because it is imperative that this interloper be removed from the

White House. It is imperative and November can`t come soon enough.


REID: And I know, Steve Schmidt, you`re part of one group that is trying to

make that happen, the Lincoln Republicans. When you think about the kind of

presidents that we`ve had in this country, the oratory, the ability to

speak to our pain, whether you agreed with them or not, the ability to

speak across party lines to just the pain that`s being felt in the country,

obviously, there`s great pain being felt here.


For Donald Trump to come out and use the name of George Floyd, to say it is

a great day for him because we`re at near depression level unemployment,

your thoughts.



great sweep of American history, Joy, and there has never been a leader who

has failed more spectacularly history`s test than has Donald Trump. When we

look at the year 2020, this is when it all unraveled. The country by the

narrowest of margins elected a reality T.V. show host, a New York City real

estate, conman, showman, P.T. Burnham Carnival Barker, and tragedy has



United States is the epicenter of coronavirus death and infection, and that

didn`t have to be. As a result, the American economy is shattered with 40

million unemployed. This week, we saw the attorney general acting as an

interior minister from thugocracy, ordered an attack by law enforcement on

peaceful protesters, exercising their first amendment right to assembly, to

speech outside of the White House. They were beaten, trampled, pepper

sprayed, gassed, including an Episcopal priest.


So Donald Trump, who had previously been hiding in the bunker and

apparently his ego was wounded by reports of that could walk across the

street to St. John`s, the church of presidents, not for prayer, not for

introspection, not to signal to the country humility, not to talk about

forgiveness, not to talk about unity, but to hold the bible upside down in

an act of sacrilege while at the same instinct, calling for the United

States military to be turned loose on the American people in the most

illiberal sentiments ever uttered out of the mouth of a president of the

United States.


And so we stand at a dangerous hour in this country where civilian and

military relations have been put into crisis by this president where he

sought to deploy the world`s most lethal combat force into the streets of

America, to turn them on to the people that they are sworn to protect and

to defend.


But we`ve seen pushback. We`ve seen the righteous anger of the American

people. We`ve seen the power of our rights and the First Amendment. We have

seen the integrity and fidelity to the Constitution of the highest ranking

retired officers and secretaries of defense who understand the importance

of the American military as an institution.


What Donald Trump said about George Floyd today is something that could

only come out of the mouth of a sociopath, somebody who has no respect for

the sanctity of human life. A man was murdered. He was murdered on a image

on T.V. that we`ve now all seen. Life was snuffed out for eight torturous

minutes. And for Donald Trump to tell us that it`s a good day for that man,

for his family, it`s despicable, it`s immoral and it shows the type of man

and the type of character we have sitting in the most powerful office in

the world with access to the most powerful military and the most powerful



And it should be frightening for all of us as Donald Trump continues his

assault on American liberty, American freedom, American democracy. The

protesters are fighting for those things. It`s Trump who`s threatening



REID: Well said. Let us look at – or let me actually give one more person

a word on this. Let`s listen to former Vice President Joe Biden, who also

responded to Donald Trump`s bizarre words today.




JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: George Floyd`s last words, I can`t

breathe, I can`t breathe, have echoed all across this nation and, quite

frankly, around the world. For the president to try to put any other words

in the mouth of George Floyd I frankly think is despicable.




REID: Well said, Mr. Vice President. Let`s move on to where Donald Trump`s

approval rating sit right now. According to The New York Times, his

approval ratings are slipping where he can`t afford to lose them, among

evangelicals just a bit. Any slide with these voters for The New York

Times, according to Cornerstone, his political base is problematic. And

even if voters of faith do turn out for him again in large numbers,

analysts said, there will not be enough of them to lift him to victory.


One more piece, this is a poll in May that shows Donald Trump`s support

among evangelicals declined 15 percentage points since March. Now, this was

before the church photo-op in which, as Steve Schmidt said, he held a bible

upside down and didn`t bother to open it to see what is inside. It`s at 62

percent, down from 15 percent, from 77 percent.


But, Donna, you know, I still look at that. And that is white evangelicals,

let just be clear because he`s not got the support black evangelicals. But

when you at the fact that he still has nearly two-thirds of evangelicals

with him, at least he did before he held the bible upside down, what does

that say to you and does that concern you?


EDWARDS: Well, I mean it does. Because it says that there is at least a

smaller minority of this country who looks at Donald Trump and still

believes that he is an acceptable leader. On the other hand, I look at the

numbers of disapproval and I see people on the streets and it tells me that

the largest swath of the American public has long since lost confidence in

this president. They do not believe that he is a righteous leader and that

they are – they`re done with him.


And so I have to believe that even if he maintains that very small

percentage, that third of the electorate, that that is not going to be

enough for him to win re-election. I know that he must feel that because

the things that he is doing now, it`s like throwing everything you can at

trying to fix a problem and he can`t fix the problem because he is the



REID: Yes. Let me let you, Steve, listen to Senator Lisa Murkowski, who

seems is to be struggling greatly with her support for the president, which

at least in terms of impeachment remained at least through then. Here she

is talking about whether or not she feels she can support him for re-





SEN. LISA MURKOWSKI (R-AK): I thought General Mattis` words were true and

honest and necessary and overdue.


REPORTER: Can you still support President Trump then? Is that something

you`re struggling with?


MURKOWSKI: I am struggling with it. I have struggled with it for a long





REID: So can you take us inside that struggle Steve? You know, you and I

were following the opposite side of the 2004 election. But you, even though

you are a – you`ve been a loyal Republican, I`m assuming most of your

adult life, you broke from that. Something about Donald Trump made you and

other Never Trump Republicans walk away. What would be the struggle at this

point? Given what he has done, including what he has done to the Christian

religion by what he – that stunt he pulled, what is the struggle about?


SCHMIDT: I don`t know, Joy, and I am cold hearted and unsympathetic to this

argument. We saw the American president direct violence against peaceful

protesters this week. We`ve seen the president lie to the country nearly

20,000 times. We`ve seen the president divide the country and incite

violence. We`ve seen a level of incompetency and ineptitude in the handling

of this historic pandemic that defied description but include standing in

front of the nation when tens of thousands are dead, talking about his

ratings, or telling the American people that it`s a good idea to ingest

bleach or household disinfectants.


We have seen a president preside over the shattering of an economy. We have

seen a president race bait, demean, disgrace his office, to desecrate the

bonds of affection that exist between us as Americans. He has completely,

utterly failed in the execution of his duties. He has attacked our

institutions. He has no fondness for liberal democracy. He doesn`t

understand the American ideal and idea.


And the notion that you would struggle with the question of four more years

of this or President Joe Biden is extraordinary to me. I can`t fathom it. I

can`t process it. She is a smart, intelligent woman. She`s tough as nails.

She has stood up to Mitch McConnell in the past. She stood up to the

Republican machine.


But the idea that, as we saw this week, the GOP senators walking by in this

geriatric shuffle, unresponsive to Trump`s ordering violence against the

American people, unresponsive to a defense secretary, and legendary four

star general saying that the president of the United States is a threat to

the American Constitution. It is beyond my comprehension how these United

States senators elected to some of the highest offices in the land could

sit in the Senate lunch and the subject of what`s happening in this country

doesn`t even come up.


It is a shameful and despicable abdication of their duty. It is a shameful

chapter of cowardice in the political history of the United States. She

shouldn`t have a tough time. It`s an easy decision. It`s the choice between

a good man and a bad man, a moral man versus an immoral man, a patriot

versus somebody who is desecrated our freedoms and ideals by his assaults

on American people.


The choice between Trump and Biden isn`t a difficult one. It`s a choice

between precipitous decline in the chance of a restoration and recovery

from these tragic events. That`s what the election about. And she shouldn`t

be sweating it in the way that she is. It`s not a troubling decision. It`s

an easy one.


REID: Brother Steve Schmidt, I got to say, I`m with you on that. I don`t

understand it at all, sir. I truly don`t. Steve, thank you, always. Donna

Edwards, always thank you, thank you, thank you.


Coming up, the violent response to protest as Trump created an environment

in which this behavior by law enforcement is considered acceptable in the



Plus, former U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright weighs in on Donald

Trump`s autocratic bid (ph). You do not want to miss that.


And the latest on the pandemic, yes, there is still a pandemic, and the CDC

says, that new cases aren`t coming down as quickly as expected.


We have got so much more to get to. Please stay with us.




REID: Welcome back.


Protests continue tonight throughout the country, with no sign of letting



Tomorrow, in the nation`s capital, the D.C. police chief expects one of the

largest gatherings that we have had in the city.


Earlier today, the city of Minneapolis announced that it would ban the use

of choke holds by police and require police to report and intervene any

time they see an unauthorized use of force. This comes amid of slew of

disturbing images of police brutality that have flooded social media.


In Buffalo, reporters from the local public radio station WBFO captured

police shoving a 75-year-old man, who then fell and cracked his head. The

individual was hospitalized. The two officers captured shoving the man have

been suspended, and prosecutors are investigating the incident.


New York Governor Andrew Cuomo weighed in earlier today.




GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): You see that video, and it disturbs your basic

sense of decency and humanity. Why? Why? Why was that necessary? Where was

the threat?




REID: In Indianapolis, this disturbing video captured by a bystander shows

Indianapolis police striking an individual who had allegedly broken the

citywide curfew.


NBC could not verify what happened before this video was shot.


Meanwhile, in Louisville, people took to the street to celebrate the life

of Breonna Taylor, who would have turned 27 today, had police not burst

into her home after midnight and shot her to death back on March 13.


On Saturday, the second of three services for George Floyd will be held in

his birthplace in Raeford, North Carolina. On Monday, the final service and

burial will be held in his hometown of Houston, Texas.


The Floyd family lawyer said that former Vice President Joe Biden is

expected to attend.


And for more, I`m joined by Maya Wiley, professor at The New School, and

Michele Norris, “Washington Post” contributing columnist.


Thank you both for being here.


Maya, the scenes that we have seen of the way that police are treating

people during these protests are shocking to a lot of Americans, not to

African-Americans, not to people who have been afraid of police for a long

time, for good reason.


Why is it, in terms of a law – you worked for a mayor. You worked for the

mayor of New York City. Why is it that police feel – seem to feel so

comfortable doing that? And why can police officers, even if they get,

let`s say, fired for bad behavior in one precinct simply pick up and move

to another town and keep being police?


MAYA WILEY, MSNBC LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, you`re pointing, Joy, to exactly the

kinds of reforms that we need that protesters are actually in the streets

demonstrating for.


So, the first answer is that we have often in this country not enough

transparency, not enough of sunlight into complaints against police

officers and whether and to what extent police departments are disciplining



And that is really important, because, if police officers learn that their

actions do not have consequences, then they continue to engage in the

actions if they feel justified.


And the other part is that that culture, that internal culture that

discipline requires is – is about silence, is about protecting fellow

officers,. It is about us vs. them. There is a phrase in the New York City

Police Department informally used, better to be tried by 12 than carried by



It is this mentality that it is better to use force because your life might

be in danger, rather than be pulled before a jury. And the problem with

that kind of mentality, the reason that you need leadership, particularly

police department leadership, to say, no, that is not right, and to say,

and we will sanction misconduct when it happens, is because it becomes, if

we think we`re in a dangerous situation, no matter how illegitimate that

belief or feeling might be, we are justified in doing what we do.


And we have to shift that.


And only by barring bad behavior, creating consequences, making sure the

public sees it and knows it and has some ability to say, you`re still not

getting it right, and until we have police leadership, which we`re starting

to see in various parts of country that recognizes that it has to change,

that we are no longer in a world where they can say, with all of their vast

resources, that they can`t pinpoint a few problem people, a few people who

might be doing wrong in a vast sea of people who are just peacefully

exercising their First Amendment rights, that is what we need in this



REID: And, Michele, I wonder if, for the media, there has also been a

presumption police are the authority.


So, when something happens, it is the police to whom media go for the

statement. And the statement is believed almost always without a whole lot

of question, typically. Right?


I think about the Walter Scott case. I used to teach this case in a class

that I was teaching, in a media class on race, in which, initially, the

police came out, and they said that Walter Scott – this is the man who was

shot in North Carolina – that he had tried to get the officer`s Taser and

that is why he was shot.


Lo and behold, thanks to video, a very brave young man who happened to

catch the entire murder on tape, it turned out, nope, Walter Scott had run

from the officer. The officer simply shot him in the back, squared up and

shot him, then walked up, and he – and the second officer dropped a Taser

to make it look like he committed a crime.


And police are believed even by the media. Do you think that something has

fundamentally changed now, because we watched George Floyd`s murder from

start to finish, and it is undeniable, and so they can`t hide behind that

anymore? Is that the change?


Or is it because it is now non-black people who are bearing a lot of the

brunt of the violence that they`re taking in the streets, at least the

protesters, I mean?


MICHELE NORRIS, “THE WASHINGTON POST”: I think it is both of those things.


REID: Yes.


NORRIS: And it`s interesting that you – you mention the Walter Scott case,

because that was reported.


I remember that – when that happened that day. The first news stories that

came out were very different than what we learned when we actually saw the



REID: Yes.


NORRIS: And that applies to what we just saw in Buffalo with the older man

who fell down.


The police said that he tripped, that he was not pushed. When you watch

that video – you had said that people of color aren`t shocked by these

videos. I have been a person of color all my life, I have been black all my

life, and I`m still shocked by what I see.


And I`m disappointed by how it is often reported in the first round if we

don`t have the video to prove it, if we don`t have the video to prove it.

And that is what is leading to the change in the polling that we`re seeing.

For the first time, white Americans are saying that they believe in larger

numbers that discrimination has something to do with the very aggressive

policing that we`re seeing in the black community.


But that is still only about half of the country. It has gone from 36

percent to now around 54 percent. So, that still means that half of the

country, half of white Americans, at least, watch these images and don`t

believe that there is an aggressive kind of policing, an aggressive brand

of policing that is targeted at African-Americans in particular.


And I don`t know how you can`t come to that conclusion when you look at the

daisy chain of deaths that we have now seen. We have seen black death on

small screens with alarming regularity. And you would think that that would

start to convince people that there is a problem in the way we are policing

black bodies in this country.


REID: Yes, you would think.


Well, we will – the change is slow, but it is change, at least somewhat,

in people`s perceptions.


Maya Wiley, Michele Norris, thank you both. Really appreciate being able to

speak with you both tonight.


NORRIS: Thank you.


WILEY: Thank you.


REID: And up next, former U.S. Secretary of state Madeleine Albright joins

us to discuss Trump`s recent behavior, which is straight out of the

autocrat`s playbook.


And we are back right after this short commercial break.







strong leader for Russia. He`s been a lot stronger than our leader. That, I

can tell you.


The Chinese, Tiananmen Square, I said, they put down a violent viciously,

horribly, strongly.


QUESTION: What do you make of the North Korean leader?


TRUMP: And, at a very young age, he was able to assume power. A lot of

people, I`m sure, tried to take that power away. So, obviously, he`s a

pretty smart cookie.




REID: Welcome back.


Well, that was Donald Trump on the strength of authoritarian leaders like

Putin and Kim Jong-un.


As “The New York Times”` Max Fisher points out: “Trump has come closer this

week than at perhaps any point in his presidency to reproducing some of the

same traits of the strongmen rulers for whom he has long expressed

admiration. Trump`s unapologetic calls for force, his efforts to position

the military as backing his political line, and his warnings of an us-vs.-

them internal threat that must be put down swiftly, all follow, whether he

knows it or not, a playbook used by the very strongmen he has praised.”


Or, as “The Washington Post” puts it: “The White House is now so heavily

fortified, that it resembles the monarchical palaces or authoritarian

compounds of regimes in faraway lands.”


I`m joined now by former U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, who

has a new book out called “Hell and Other Destinations.”


And, Madam Secretary, thank you so much for being here.


What do you make of Donald Trump`s comportment, from his clear desire to

use the military as his own sort of private police force, and to recruit

them into his service, personal, to this photo opportunity?


I`m going to show – I`m going to put it up, him clearing the streets of

Washington in order to walk across the street, away from his bunker, and

hold up a Bible upside down in front of a church, and to just create that.


And he did – he made a video of it. It was a video that he then tweeted

out from the White House account.


What did you make of that?



you said, very correctly, that he seems to have taken a page out of an

autocrat`s playbook. And the clips that you played of the admiration that

he has for the worst leaders that are able to control their societies is

proof of it.


I do think that what we saw has been an absolutely outrageous use of power

and a complete misunderstanding about what America is about. I came to this

country when I was 11 years old. I had been through World War II, and then

we escaped communism. And so I know what autocrats are about.


And I think that what happened in terms of – and I was – by the way, I

was watching television when the park right in front of the White House was

cleared out and tear-gassed. And I`m so familiar with that area, because I

worked in the White House. I have walked across Lafayette Square. I have

been to St. John`s Church.


And kind of seeing all of that take place, under those circumstances, by

somebody who doesn`t understand at all what the Constitution is about, and

so I am very concerned.


And – but I do think – and I want to point this out – is, there have

been stunning contrasts here. I`m very proud of the mayor for what she did

and to decide to call it Black Lives Matter Plaza.


And also the rector of the church I go to, Gini Gerbasi, was in front of

St. John`s at Lafayette Square giving out help to the people. And I think

that what has happened is, Trump has made a joke of things that are vital

to the functioning of American society.


And I think that all he knows how to do is insult people and has no sense

about what an honor it should be to be president of the United States. And

he has misused the office.


And I`m just stunned beyond belief, I have to tell you. It is nothing that

I ever thought I would see in the United States. And I think we have to use

this as an opportunity to deal with the systemic racism that has gone on

and to honor the death of George Lloyd (sic).


REID: And do you – what do you make of the fact that you now have

generals, military generals – I believe there are three or four that we

can now count, including his own former secretary of defense – who are

condemning him, and in the case of his – the former secretary of defense,

likening him in some ways or relating him to the way that the Nazi regime

behaved, and saying that we shouldn`t behave that way, and say he`s a

threat to the Constitution?


What do you make of that?


ALBRIGHT: Well, I think it was a very important statement.


These are people that have been highly respected in the military, the

highest level. I think they were appalled, frankly, by how this kind of

spun out and embarrassed. But, more importantly, they made clear the

importance of the relationship that the American people have with the

military we respect, but not to all of a sudden start being the ones that

see themselves as the violent control over people that are trying to show

their views peacefully.


REID: Yes.


ALBRIGHT: And so their statements, I think, are very important. I applaud

that they said them.


But I think we have to keep very, very careful watch about a lack of

understanding by the president of the – of what the military is about. He

keeps talking about “my generals” and wants to have parades and show off

how he fits in with those people that he admired at the – in those clips

that you showed.


REID: Yes.


ALBRIGHT: And the statement this morning blew my – I couldn`t believe it,

absolutely couldn`t believe it.


REID: Yes.


ALBRIGHT: It was a level beyond which one could go.


REID: Let me let you listen to some of international – some of the

international leaders respond to Donald Trump`s comments, as you just

mentioned, about George Floyd.




POPE FRANCIS, LEADER OF CATHOLIC CHURCH (through translator): Dear brothers

and sisters in the United States, I have witnessed with great concern the

disturbing social unrest in your nation in these past days.


BORIS JOHNSON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: I was appalled and sickened to see

what happened to him.



consternation what is going on in the United States. It is a time to pull

people together, but it is a time to listen.




REID: And we have had – according to “Foreign Policy,” hundreds of former

national security officials have condemned Donald Trump`s response to the



Here`s a little bit of that. More than 280 former senior U.S. diplomats and

military leaders rebuked Donald Trump over his plans to use U.S. military

units to control protests across the country in a letter shared with

“Foreign Policy” on Friday, saying: “There is no role for the U.S. military

in dealing with American citizens exercising their constitutional right to

free speech, however uncomfortable that speech may be for some.”


If this was another country, Madam Secretary, and you were observing it as

secretary of state, what would you make of it? Would this seem like a

democracy to you, the way that Donald Trump is operating in the United



ALBRIGHT: If I were observing it, I definitely would not think it is, and

that the people that he`s chosen to admire are the ones that really dictate

the way he believes or the fact that he even understands what a democracy

should be.


I don`t think – he doesn`t understand the Constitution, from what I can

tell. And I really do think – I can`t tell you how proud I was to sit

behind a sign that said the United States. At the moment, I think we are

not just an embarrassment, but also a danger to other countries.


And we do – are not going to be able to deal with the problems that are

out there which know no borders, the virus and the kinds of issues going

on. And it is appalling.


REID: Yes.


ALBRIGHT: And I think that we need to understand that the United States,

this is not America.


And I think we need to listen to what the demonstrators are saying, what

the discussions are. We need to sort out how we deal with what is a real

departure from what people have seen as America.


And so it is a very hard time. And a propaganda stunt that has really

dismantled some of the various aspects of our Constitution is very, very



REID: Madeleine Albright, former secretary of state, thank you very much.

Really appreciate your time tonight. Thank you.




REID: And up next: the latest on the ongoing pandemic.


We are flattening the curve – thank you, ma`am – but the CDC is worried

that efforts so far may not be enough to really drive down the rate of



Stay with us.




REID: Welcome back.


Well, over the last 11 days, tens of thousands of Americans have taken to

the streets, and even into a church, as a result of the outrage over the

police killing of George Floyd.


It comes as the country is still facing the threat of the coronavirus,

which has already infected nearly two million people in the U.S., and taken

the lives of more than 109,000.


The CDC is now forecasting the death toll to rise to more than 127,000

before the end of the month.


This morning, Dr. Anthony Fauci warned about the threat of new outbreaks

caused by the massive crowds.




DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NIAID DIRECTOR: The congregation of large crowds at a

time and in an area, a geographic area, where, clearly, there is active

infection, transmission, it`s a perfect setup for further spread of the

virus, in the sense of creating these blips, which might turn into some



People running back and forth, taking their masks off, being close in

proximity, that absolutely poses a risk that there might be spread of





REID: For more, I`m joined by Dr. Lipi Roy, an internal medicine physician.


And, Dr. Roy, BuzzFeed has already reported that more than 11,000 people

have already been arrested at these protests. And there is a concern that

people who are put into then overcrowded detention facilities and police

stations might be at risk of COVID.


And then on top of that, we have had tear gas that has been used on

protesters, whereas as they`re breathing that in and then coughing that

out. “The New York Times” says that: “Along with the immediate pain that

could cause watering eyes and burning throats, tear gas may cause damage to

people`s lungs, and make them more susceptible to getting a respiratory

illness. According to studies on the risk of exposure, the gas can also

incite coughing, which can further spread the virus from an infected



Do you expect, two weeks from now, we`re going to be talking about a new

set of outbreaks from these protests, coming from these protests and the



DR. LIPI ROY, MSNBC MEDICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Good evening, Joy. It is good to

see you after so many days.


Yes, I – the concern amongst many of us in the medical and public health

communities is that there will likely be an increase, if not a surge, in

cases in hospitals all over the country that have faced these protests.


And, yes, the tear gas, it`s – in addition to just severe mucosal

irritation, eyes, throats, there is a study actually done by the U.S. Army

in 2012 that showed that, days after exposure to tear gas, people were at

increased risk for developing infection.


But I also just wanted to say that there is nothing like a pandemic to

expose the existing cracks in the U.S. health care system. I said that

before for coronavirus, but it applies right now regarding decades, if not

centuries, of racial inequities.


And we`re seeing that now. And I just want to be very clear, as a

physician, that racism is a public health issue, if not a crisis. And I

want to make sure that the families of Mr. George Floyd and Breonna Taylor

and multiple other people who just – whose deaths were not captured on

camera, that I convey my sincere condolences, and we all need to act,

including the medical community, to make sure that we correct these wrongs.


REID: Yes, I mean, it is ironic that the killing of these black people who

have done nothing, that their murders are now prompting, in places where

there already were spikes of COVID-19 that were disproportionately

affecting black and brown people, that then there`s another risk to them.


That is the sort of tragic, sort of horrible irony of all this.


Even before that, you had – on top of that, you also just had Memorial Day

weekend, where, before this all happened, you also had people coming back

out there, states that are reopening.


Have we kind of reached a perfect storm for COVID-19 to make the summer

even more hellish?


ROY: You know, that is a great question, Joy.


Earlier, I Professor Eddie Glaude, who`s been a frequent guest on MSNBC,

talk about how he`s from the Gulf Coast and hurricanes. And I can relate to

that. I did my medical training in New Orleans.


And he talked about the fact that, right now, we`re in the eye of the

storm. All of these different issues, these different scenarios are coming



And, look, I kind of have mixed feelings here, because a part of me is

actually really inspired by seeing these protests and especially seeing all

these young people protesting.


But, on the other hand, as a public health advocate and doctor, I`m really

concerned because, right now, we have not contained this virus. It is out

there. And the concern that I specifically have is that the young – it`s

the young people who may actually get the – carry the virus.


They won`t be the ones getting severely sick and dying. They`re going to

inadvertently then go back home and transmit this virus to older relatives,

older people, people who are sick. And those individuals will go on and,

unfortunately, get sick and die. That is what I`m worried about.


But I really want young people to remember that, look, you can still be an

activist for social justice and public health, but do so from home. You can

go online, you can donate, you can e-mail your local mayors and the

Congress members and senator.


As President Obama recently said, you can – change happens at the local

level. So that is the key messages I want to send, both about social

justice, Joy, and about public health.


REID: Mm-hmm.


And what should people be doing if they`re out in these crowds? You can`t

social distance, because there are people so close to you. What would you

advise people who are determined to go out there and march to do to keep

themselves safe?


ROY: Yes. Well – yes, yes, I`m so glad you asked that, Joy.


I – trust me, I get that sense of, I don`t think there is anybody out

there right now in our society who just doesn`t feel profound frustration

and anger. And I understand that need, that urge to go out and protest.


My first recommendation would be, you can be an activist from home. But for

those who still want to go out, please, by all means, cover your face, your

nose and cover your eyes. There is a new recommendation now to cover your

eyes, because it is mucosal protection.


And, as best you can, keep the distance, again, as best you can. Try not to

shout and yell, because, when you do that, that is going to spread the

respiratory droplets and the virus even more, Joy.


REID: OK. Dr. Lipi Roy, valuable advice. Thank you so much. Really

appreciate you, your advice.


ROY: Thank you.


REID: Hopefully, people will take it. And thank you so much.


And still ahead: Protesters are taking to the streets, as we just

discussed, to make their voices heard. We`re going to bring you some of

those voices, the voices of protest.


That`s next. Stay there. Stay right here.




REID: Welcome back.


For more than a week, we have been glued to our screens, watching people

protest for justice and human rights around the country and the world.


Take a listen to just a few of them.




UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: No justice, no peace! No justice, no peace! No

justice, no peace!


UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: No justice, no peace! No justice, no peace! No

justice, no peace!


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Since I was 12 years old, I have been fighting for

justice, for the understanding that black lives do truly matter.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it is absolutely abhorrent that, at this time

day and time, we`re still having to go through this.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At 19 years old, nothing has changed. We`re still

fighting for the same thing.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Black people have been fighting this fight for years,

hundreds of years. And it`s a shame that, in 1962 to 2020, I`m still seeing

the same thing.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want change. And you can see that from all of the

people here. All races, all creeds, all people are here with this one

message. And I think that`s beautiful.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t want (INAUDIBLE). I want them to have a purpose,

have a life, be free, be people, be happy.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I ask for all law enforcement to please, please hear

our cries.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (singing): Lean on me.


You sing.


UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS (singing): When you`re not strong. I will be your



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (singing): Everyday, I have been hunted as prey. My

people don`t want no trouble. We have been on a struggle. I just want to

live. God, protect me.




REID: We will be right back.




REID: Thanks for watching.


I will be back here at midnight for MSNBC`s continuing coverage of the

nationwide protests.


And please be sure to tune in tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. Eastern for “A.M.

JOY.” Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison will be my guest.


Don`t go anywhere. “ALL IN WITH CHRIS HAYES” is up next.










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