Mötley Crüe star speaks out on Opioid crisis Transcript 10/23/17 The Beat with Ari Melber

Juliet Huddy, Cecile Richards, Bill Browder, Michael McFaul, Nikki Sixx

Date: October 23, 2017

Guest: Juliet Huddy, Cecile Richards, Bill Browder, Michael McFaul, Nikki

STEVE KORNACKI, MSNBC HOST, “MTP DAILY”: It is just not worth it, ever.
That is all for tonight. Chuck is going to be back tomorrow with more “MTP
Daily.” THE BEAT with Ari Melber starts now. Good evening, Ari.

ARI MELBER, MSNBC HOST, THE BEAT: Good evening, Steve. And as we always
say at this time, I was see you later, alligator.

KORNACKI: After a while, crocodile.

MELBER: Oh, wow. It happens. Thank you.

Now, Donald Trump started the day tweeting in defense of his condolence
call to the widow of Sergeant La David Johnson, but he ducked the topic
when asked about it today.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, do you regret that Myeshia Johnson was
upset by your phone call?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: President Trump, do you regret that Myeshia Johnson
was upset by your phone call?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: President Trump, is there anything more you`d like to
say to Myeshia Johnson?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you tell the public what happened in Niger?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, any questions on the ambush?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have a response to Myeshia Johnson, Mr.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you talk to us about Niger, Mr. President?


MELBER: Condolence calls to Gold Star families are not usually political
controversies, but President Trump made this a controversy, leading to more
push back from grieving families, including from Myeshia Johnson today.


that he knew what he signed up for, but it hurts anyways. It made me cry
because I was very angry at the tone of his voice and how he said it. He
couldn`t remember my husband`s name.

the congresswoman was lying about the phone call.

JOHNSON: Whatever Miss Wilson said was not fabricated. What she said was
100 percent correct.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Is there anything you`d like to say to the president now?

JOHNSON: No. I don`t - no. I don`t have nothing to say to him.


MELBER: Now, let`s remember, Gen. John Kelly deployed his considerable
stature to back Trump and try to frame this as a fight between a serious
president and a loud, lying member of congress.

Then the tape surfaced showing it was Kelly who had his facts wrong. And
today, Miss Johnson`s remarks show you that you can take Congresswoman
Wilson out of the picture and you still have the words of a grieving mother
contradicting the word of a president, a president who we have to note has
literally broken records for his misleading and false statements in office.

Gen. Kelly, it is not too late for you. You can correct this record, so we
can all move on. But asking people to move on without correcting this
record isn`t moving on at all. In fact, it is contrary to the
accountability required by our constitutional system where no politician
and certainly no general is above America`s checks and balances.

In a moment, I`m going to speak to Congresswoman Maxine Waters joining me
on this issue live. She is part of a joint call from the CBC urging Gen.
Kelly to apologize for “blatant lies” about Congresswoman Wilson.

But, first, I want to look at what happened in Niger and the widening
fallout across Washington. So, I`m joined by Malcolm Nance, a former DHS
counterterror and intelligence officer, as well as longtime journalist Kurt
Andersen, who is also the author of the book “Fantasyland,” pretty relevant
to part of this debate.

Malcolm, what do you make of where this goes now, as the military is trying
to do relatively serious or nonpartisan briefings, but with the undertow of
a president who continues to want to submerge everyone in what appear to be

MALCOLM NANCE, MSNBC TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, right now, the Department of
Defense and Special Operations Command and Africa Command are all going to
be doing deep-dive, after-action reports to get to the bottom of how this
ambush formed, how the personnel on the ground managed to fight on the

And there`s one thing that`s sort of missing from this story. Sergeant
Johnson got separated at some point, but he did manage to move a mile away
from the contact point. That shows that he was fighting on the move. He
was fighting and evading as a single man unit.

And the defense department is going to investigate that and they are going
to want to know how he got separated, what kind of combat support was
brought in there and whether it could be done faster.

But there are two stories going on here. There is a political story and
then there is the story of these four heroes on the ground and their
special forces ODA and how they managed to survive overwhelming odds. And
all of these stories are eventually going to come out.

MELBER: And Gen. Dunford gave this briefing today, Malcolm. Here`s what
he said about the information that`s owed to the families.


regard to being transparent, I think we do owe the families, any American
people transparency in incidents like this.


MELBER: How should that work, Malcolm, given something you understand
better than most of us, which is the aspects of this that are sensitive
even as they say they want to rule out what happened, so people know?

NANCE: Well, to a certain extent, we`ve had problems with this issue
before, the transparency of the administration when a loved one, a member
of the armed forces die.

You might remember the issue with Pat Tillman when he was killed in
Afghanistan, former NFL player who became a Ranger, went into contact. And
the initial report was - is that he was killed in combat by an enemy force,
turned out to be friendly fire.

These issues should have been worked out in advance. These families
deserve to know as much as humanly possible about the loss of their loved

I served 20 years. I know exactly the pain that some of these families are
in. And they need to know that this nation is taking care of them. Not
that they`re taking care of the time line, not that they are taking care of
some political activity or embarrassment.

And that`s why your first point about Gen. Kelly needing to come out and
apologize, if that`s what it takes to settle this issue and to give that
family transparency. It`s not one family. It`s four families and, by
extension, all the families in the armed forces that are watching this.

MELBER: And not to be parsing, because you and I are getting at the same
thing, but I`m not saying whether he should apologize or not, I don`t
necessarily see that as my role, Kurt.

I`m saying that the record suggests a falsehood. And so, as a journalist,
I`m pointing out the falsehood, I`m going to keep pointing it out, I`m
going to play for you for your response what Gen. Kelly said in going after
this congresswoman and doing it while - he wanted especially to be treated
with a deference of a military officer and he played that up, while making
a false political attack.


JOHN KELLY, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: The congresswoman stood up, and in
the long tradition of empty barrels making the most noise, stood up there
in all of that and talked about how she was instrumental in getting the
funding for that building. Even for someone that is that empty a barrel,
we were stunned.


MELBER: That attack stays on the record. The video has been played.
MSNBC went to the trouble of playing the entire video, so everyone could
see it in context and make up their own mind. Where do we go from here?

HISTORY: This has been a series of lies. This only became an issue when
Donald Trump made it one in this impromptu press conference by lying about
having written to almost every person who`s died and lying about his
predecessors never calling the survivors of dead soldiers and marines.

So, those two lies existed. Gen. Kelly gets out there, does perfectly fine
moving - beginning of this thing, and then, as you say, pivots to this lie
about what the congresswoman had done at a dedication of the FBI building
he attended a few years ago.

It`s extraordinary. This doesn`t need to exist. The Niger event is an
event of a kind that happens. It could have been put away. Donald Trump
could have answered that initial press conference question with, my heart
is with the survivors and the brave men who died.

He wasn`t asked any pressing question. He was asked why haven`t you said
anything about this, Mr. President.

MELBER: Right. And let me play for you John McCain, Kurt, military
service, not a prerequisite to doing anything, but pretty notable to hear
Sen. McCain go there, as they say. Take a listen.


SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: We drafted the lowest income level of
America and the highest income level found a doctor that would say that
they had a bone spur. That is wrong. That is wrong.


MELBER: Kurt? I loved that, of course, because, of course, he didn`t say
- and like Donald Trump, he found a doctor to get his post-college
deferment on the basis of a possibly spurious bone spur, but it was more
elegantly done for that.

No, precisely. And it, of course, brought up this greater, larger issue.
Back then, before we had an all-volunteer armed services of the incredible
economic inequality that pertains to those who do and don`t serve.

MELBER: Your readers, who we count I think among some of our viewers, will
note your use of the word spurious, along with the word spur, which makes
you a better writer than so many of us.

Kurt Andersen and Malcolm Nance, thank you both.

I want to turn now, as promised to Congresswoman Maxine Walters, a member
of the Congressional Black Caucus, who has called on Gen. John Kelly to
apologize to Congresswoman Wilson.

Congresswoman, what have we learned? What is your view of where we go from
here? And what is it incumbent upon Gen. John Kelly, Chief of Staff John
Kelly to do now that the video has been exposed?

REP. MAXINE WATERS (D), CALIFORNIA: Well, Gen. Kelly can take the
responsibility for admitting that he was wrong, that he had lied on the

I think it`s important for us to all work to get this behind us. First of
all, we should make it absolutely clear that our heart goes out to the
families of all of the soldiers who were killed in Niger. And we should
let them know that not only do they have our condolences, but we stand with
them and we appreciate the sacrifice that they all are making.

Having said that, this president, President Trump did it again. He has the
most distorted leadership of any president I`ve ever known or heard about.

Here he had the opportunity to make the condolence call, to do it properly,
to recognize this family and their grieving, and also to know the name of
the soldier who had been killed.

He did not remember the name, he didn`t handle it well. And even if he had
been counseled to talk about, perhaps, young people going into war, into
service like this understand the risks that are involved, but he didn`t do
it correctly and he needs to admit that.

First of all, he needs to apologize. He lied on other presidents that had
gone on before him and saying they didn`t do it as well as he did, that he
called everybody.

And then, in typical Trump fashion, he gets off the phone when he is
challenged and then he backtracks, and he tries to call all of those
families. He gets his personnel to identify all of the families who have
lost members in service to this country and then he tries to make up by
sending some kind of a letter or note to them.

It is so unconscionable in the way that he manages his leadership. Having
said that, and Gen. Kelly has had a good career. And to have his career
really basically undermined by the president of the United States because
he`s trying to protect the president and standing up for the president when
the president did not deserve to be stood up for, now he`s damaged himself.

His credibility is at question. And so, he needs to call the congresswoman
and apologize. He lied on the congresswoman. He said he was there, he
said he heard her, and then, when the video clip was played, that basically
demonstrated exactly what she said and how she said it, it was obvious that
he had lied. And so, he needs to apologize.

If the president will apologize to Mrs. johnson and if Gen. Kelly will
apologize to congresswoman, then I think we can put this behind us. But
until that is done, it is not going to go away.

You`re absolutely correct. All of the women of the Congressional Black
Caucus have come together and we`re demanding an apology. We`re sick and
tired of women being undermined, being dismissed, and black women, in
particular, being called names. She was called wacky.

Fredericka Wilson is an honorable member of the House of Representatives
that we all respect.

MELBER: Let me ask you about that in particular because I follow the CBC
and it does a whole range of work on policy, but you`re bringing it up. Is
it your view that she was being treated differently because of her race and

WATERS: I think that goes along with it. He seems to have this tendency
to talk down to people of color, to treat them with disrespect. And I
think this adds to it. I think the fact that, first of all, he called her
wacky, secondly, that he didn`t back down, that he simply talked about her
in a way that was not respectful, I think that, yes, I think this adds to
the suspicion of him and the way that he thinks about minorities and black
people, in particular.

MELBER: Congresswoman Waters, thank you for coming on THE BEAT.

WATERS: You`re welcome. Thank you.

MELBER: Appreciate it. Coming up, I have an interview with a top Putin
critic who found himself put on the most wanted list. The Kremlin
potentially silencing critics by using global policing and what`s the Trump
administration`s response.

And later, there are some new whopping revelations about Bill O`Reilly`s
handling of sexual harassment lawsuits. We`re going to talk about that and
women`s rights in the Trump era. My special guest tonight, Planned
Parenthood President Cecile Richards.

And later, Motley Crue star Nikki Sixx is going to be here to talk about
the opioid crisis and his own heartfelt worlds for people who might be
struggling with addiction. I`m Ari Melber and you`re watching THE BEAT on


MELBER: New developments in the Russia probe tonight. Donald Trump is not
paying for a big chunk of his own legal bills, instead the RNC donors
forking over about 400k for his criminal defense. But new reports that he
will pay other people`s bills, including some of his staff.

While legal, ethics experts like Walter Shaub say a target of investigation
paying for the legal fees of other witnesses could create conflicts.

And a report by “USA Today” found Trump has often stiffed lawyers and
contractors, leaving people wondering whether staff may ultimately still be
holding the bag.

While all that may be bad news for the Trump White House, not all Mueller
news is about Trump. There are reports today that Mueller is scrutinizing
a major Democratic lobbyist, Tony Podesta, the brother of Clinton campaign
chair John Podesta, the issue being the Russian-friendly Ukrainian
political projects which hired Paul Manafort as well as Podesta`s company.

Now, as usual, Mueller not commenting on these reports, but Trump is, speak
out a little bit. There`s a new interview where he says nobody at DOJ has
asked him for an interview.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s a report that you`re - your legal team is
saying, yes, do an interview with Robert Mueller. Is that what you`re
going to do?

TRUMP: I don`t know. I mean, nobody has asked me to do that. There is no
collusion. I can tell you that.


MELBER: I`m joined now by Shelby Holliday, a business and politics
reporter at “The Wall Street Journal” and Betsy Woodruff, politics reporter
at “The Daily Beast.”

Betsy, we`re seeing in dribs and drabs and people who follow this come
across your name as one of the reporters breaking these stories. But the
investigation is proceeding. The Podesta news shows that the interviews
that have been confirmed with people like Reince Priebus and Sean Spicer
show that. What else are you seeing? And is it getting to the point where
that question asked is relevant? Will the president testify?

relevant to ask if the president could be considered a witness of this
probe. In the past, special counsels have questioned presidents,
particularly, Jack Danforth, when he was a special counsel, investigating
the Waco debacle, had a phone conversation where he interviewed then
President Bill Clinton.

So, there`s absolutely precedent for Mueller to speak with Trump. That
said, we can`t predict if it is going to happen or not.

What we do know is that over the last week and likely for at least next two
weeks, current and former White House staff are sitting down for interviews
with Mueller and his team. And as I`m sure your viewer understand, that`s
a legally risky situation because it`s likely there will be FBI agents
present for those interviews. And if any of the White House staff
answering questions deliberately lie, they could face legal liability.

So, while some folks close to the White House want to suggest this Podesta
news might mean Mueller has changed his focus, the reality is the Mueller
probe is complex, it`s a lot bigger than most public reports are able to
explain in a clear away and it`s not necessarily something that`s going to
be over anytime soon.

MELBER: And, Shelby, this comes while there are reports that basically the
congressional side of this, there`s a lot more partisan drama. Bipartisan
accounting, according to “The New York Times”, is the extraordinary
investigation appears to be dwindling.

Republicans in both chambers eager to wrap up the investigations before too
long. That`s a ship from the opening, at least in the Senate, where things
looked bipartisan.

Right. I mean, you have to realize they have elections coming up. So, of
course, they want to wrap things up. This is not a pretty topic for
Republicans regardless of where they stand on the issue.

And that`s because it has to do with Russia`s interference in the election.

I think the significant news about Podesta - Mueller investigating Podesta
is that, first of all, this transcends politics. Mueller is not a
political hack. So, that`s evidence that there is something big going on

It also had to do with work that was done well before President Trump
announced his candidacy. Whether or not that benefits Trump remains to be

But it`s also not a rabbit hole. I was talking to some FARA experts. And
they basically said -

MELBER: As one does. As one does.

HOLLIDAY: On first glance, this looks like this might be a rabbit hole, it
might be unrelated to the probe and he might be going down these political
channels, but it`s not because it`s all connected to Paul Manafort, who, as
we know, was President Trump`s campaign chair.

So, the noose is tightening on Manafort.

MELBER: Speaking to experts on the Foreign Agents Registration Act, it`s a
fun thing to do.

HOLLIDAY: There aren`t that many of them because nobody talks about this
law much until this year. They all said the fact that Rachel Maddow is
doing segments on FARA just blows their mind. (INAUDIBLE) nobody talks
about that.

MELBER: Because it is obscured. And that is, by the way, the law that
would also potentially hit the Podesta group.

Betsy, when you look at that and you look at sort of that motivation, the
idea that - of course, it`s not a rabbit hole and that Bob Mueller is going
to go where he goes. There is an argument that all of this can be good
news for Donald Trump if there`s no findings of collusion because then
anyone else hit off the playing field, we know he can get rid of staff,
he`s done that before, right?

WOODRUFF: Right, exactly. We know Mueller is going to follow the
investigation where it leads. What this also means, though, is that Rod
Rosenstein, he`s the number two at Justice Department, is going to
potentially have to make some big decisions.

If you look at the regulation that put the special counsel in place, it
specifically dictates that, if Mueller or anyone else, acting as a special
counsel finds evidence of a crime that`s outside the scope of his or her
mandate, then they have to go to the attorney general, in this case Rod
Rosenstein is the acting attorney general to decide what to do with that

So, potentially, Rosenstein could be in the position of deciding what to do
with what Mueller and his team find here.

Another piece that`s really important, as far as Manafort and Podesta, is
that the work the Podesta group was doing on behalf of Ukrainian clients is
something (INAUDIBLE) back in August. It`s really troubled human rights
folks and former American diplomats.

They were especially trying to persuade journalists and lawmakers that the
2012 Ukrainian elections were completely above board, clean, nice,
unquestionable election. While - when that election happened, the Podesta
group`s clients, they had their political opponents in prison.

It was a kind of propaganda peddling that deeply frustrated human rights
activists, frustrated people who care about good governance in Ukraine, and
there is certainly a lot of material for Mueller to dig in on as he is
looking at the work that that lobbying company did.

MELBER: Right. And some of that goes to a lot of things in Washington
that may be legal or on the line that could disgust the average observer.
And now, you`ve got an investigator really digging into it, regardless of

Shelby Holliday, Betsy Woodruff, thank you both for your expertise.

Ahead, a billionaire anti-Putin activist was put on the most wanted list
and said the US may have overreacted. He joins me to explain.

And the secret Trump Tower meeting. He knows the Russians in that room and
has crossed swords with some of them. I`m going to ask him about that.

Later, new revelations about the Bill O`Reilly sexual harassment scandal.
Planned Parenthood President Cecile Richards on that and much more ahead.


MELBER: Tonight, new details about sexual assault allegations against a
powerful man. Wait, that line could accurately apply to a lot of things,
to Harvey Weinstein, to Donald Trump, but tonight it`s actually Bill
O`Reilly, under fire for settling a suit alleging, among other things, non-
consensual sex.

The headline comes as 38 women stepping forward to accuse director James
Toback of sexual harassment, which he denies. And it`s all related to the
larger fight over women`s rights here in the Trump era.

Tonight, the battle growing over as well an undocumented teen who the Trump
administration is trying to prevent from giving a lawful abortion in Texas,
as well as Trump`s latest memo that could spell disaster for women`s
reproductive health.

I`m going to discuss all of this with Cecile Richards, the president of
Planned Parenthood, right here with me on THE BEAT live.

But let me give you an update on the latest with Bill O`Reilly. This is
really unusual. “The New York Times” with a blockbuster story of a $32
million settlement, over sexual harassment allegations, which came from a
formal “Fox News” analyst.

Now, to put this reported settlement amount in perspective, consider that a
big wrongful death settlement is a fifth of that, about $6 million.

Now, NBC has not independently verified this amount and O`Reilly denies the
allegations as lying, saying this to two “New York Times” reporters who
broke the story.


BILL O`REILLY, FORMER “FOX NEWS” HOST: We have physical truth that this is

This is horrible. It`s horrible what I went through. Horrible what my
family went through. This is crap. And you know it. It`s politically and
financially motivated. And we can prove it with shocking information.


MELBER: That is part of O`Reilly`s side as well as his denials, which
we`ve been reporting. For another side of this, we go to former “Fox News”
host who came out today speaking on “Megyn Kelly Today”.

terrified. And I don`t know why I`m about to cry but it`s just – it`s
difficult, many women go into the settlement agreement because they just
don`t want to face what potentially could be coming at them. Again, it`s -
- you`re dealing with a corporation, filled with people who are going to do
everything they possibly can to make sure that they win and you don`t.


MELBER: And I`m joined by as promised, Cecile Richards. What is your
accounting of all these allegations stacking up and coming out?

mean, beginning with Harvey Weinstein stories and continuing on. I think
as you`re seeing of course, across the country, there`s not a woman in
America who isn`t now reliving some experience. And I just really want to
thank the women who have been brave enough and had the courage to come
forward. I think it`s establishing how prevalent this is. And I think the
frightening thing and it will get to this is just actually how prevalent it
may be now even with the policies of the U.S. government.

MELBER: Right. Well, and when women know that it`s prevalent, that it`s
an epidemic or that it is so prevalent it is seen as something that you
sadly must get through, and must deal with, and get on within work
environment, what does it take to make men aware of how prevalent this is?
Because there seems to be a group of people doing the predation, that`s bad
and then a whole group of people who essentially silently enabling it or in
denial how prevalent it is.

RICHARDS: Well, obviously we`re concerned about – and we see this at
Planned Parenthood every day, you know, we treat women who are survivors of
sexual assault and domestic violence. This is not a new issue. I think
what`s new is finally people are talking about it out in the open. And it
has been good to see male allies speaking up but to even have a government
now that is denying women a most basic fundamental access to health care,
to reproductive health care and reproductive rights like the Texas case,
makes it even more disturbing because it really means – you know, and as
you`ve said, there`s like young woman now in Texas who`s really literally
held hostage by the Trump administration.

MELBER: Right, so walk us through this. You look at the headline here,
and this is an undocumented individual, who would otherwise typically have
the right to at least medical treatment and care, which in this case – you
can put up headline up right here – detained immigrant asking a full
appeals court to let her get this apportion. Explain what`s going on.

RICHARDS: Correct, now, this is a young woman who is apprehended, was put
into a shelter in Texas, found out very soon thereafter that she was
pregnant. What said immediately, I want to terminate this pregnancy, went
through all of the judicial bypass, that of course in Texas it`s very
difficult for young women to get an abortion, was agreed to by a judge,
scheduled for September 28th and then the Trump administration began to get
involved. And this woman is still being held hostage, denied her legal
right to terminate a pregnancy. And that is – I mean, it`s just a tip of
an iceberg.

MELBER: So, are they trying to make example out of her?

RICHARDS: Well, I think she – I mean, she obviously is an example.
There`s now litigation going on and a lot of folks are involved in trying
to help make sure this young woman can get the health care she deserves.
And what – it`s really, I think exposing is who this administration has
put in charge of our government. We look at Scott Lloyd who`s in charge of
young people who are in you know, unaccompanied minors and refugees. He
has personally taking an interest in effort to try to denying this young
woman access to abortion. In fact, told the center where she`s living that
she couldn`t go and get the medical care and in fact, referred and insisted
that she go to anti-abortion center to try to talk her out of the decision
that she had made.

MELBER: Also, a leaked memo from the Trump administration claimed by
Crooked Media, they do a podcast and other things that they want to take
money from women`s health care and encourage people instead to do
“fertility awareness birth control.”

RICHARDS: I know, Ari, this is going to be hard because they`re way too
young to know about this. But back in the day, there was something called
the rhythm method, which was before women had access to birth control.
That was you just trying –

MELBER: I`m happy to learn from you.

RICHARDS: Yes, I don`t know. I don`t want to –

MELBER: Educate me about things how they used to be.

RICHARDS: I don`t think you want to go this direction but basically it`s -
- they tried this memo that has leaked that`s saying they`re trying to keep
women from using birth control now and instead use rhythm method and hope
for the best.

MELBER: So that`s crazy right?

RICHARDS: Well, what it really results in is, of course, millions of
unintended pregnancies –

MELBER: And isn`t that – this is what – this is the thing, and I know
you do this every day. Isn`t that what they`re also opposed to?

RICHARDS: Right. Well, the crazy thing too is that we`re at a historic
low for teenage pregnancy in the U.S. 30 year low for unintended pregnancy
because of the good work of Planned Parenthood and other folks who provide
birth control. So they`re really literally trying to undo that, and as you
say, and you know, try to reduce the family planning program that millions
of women rely on successfully to plan their families. So it`s all part and
parcel I think of an administration that have put people who are putting
their own politics ahead of the health and well-being of women and that`s
what`s really scary.

MELBER: We always learn – having you on is like – is like having book –

RICHARDS: I got a lot more where that came from.

MELBER: – sitting down on this chair. We learn so much from you every
time I get to talk to you. Thank you very much. From Planned Parenthood
Cecilia Richards. Coming up, the American born businessman targeted by
Vladimir Putin speaking out and he has inside Intel he says on what Kremlin
– what Kremlin organizers were doing with the Trump Tower Meeting. That`s


MELBER: New allegations tonight that Vladimir Putin is abusing an
international law enforcement organization, Interpol, to target a critic
and potentially try to bar him from entering the U.S. The target, Bill
Browder, an American-born Financier who works in London and has become a
major foe of Vladimir Putin. Remember the now famous adoption sanction law
that Russian allegedly raised in that Trump Tower meeting? Well, the road
from that leads back to Browder. It was his lawyer who Putin had jailed
indicting custody and the U.S. passed the sanctions in response to that
death. Now tonight the is Browder is saying that Putin is again putting
him on an international fugitive list through Interpol and thinks that
Trump administration responded by denying him paperwork he needs to visit
the U.S.

Now, Trump administration is pushing back tonight, more on that in a
moment. But the prospect that the U.S. is doing anything to play into
Putin`s hand right now drawing bipartisan outrage. John McCain, a
Democratic Senator Ben Cardin, pushing DHS to clear this up. The top House
Democrat on the Foreign Affairs Committee telling the Trump`s State
Department immediately reverse this decision. Now, Browder is at the
center of other open Russia issues in the adoption sanctions law, the
Magnitsky Act has been a new development event to people who hear about it
during the 2016 campaign.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you know what the Magnitsky Act was?

even heard of it before you know, that day.


MELBER: But Bill Browder has actually been working to punish Putin and his
regime for years.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bill Browder has dedicated his time and his resources
to uncover the truth.

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST: The man`s name is Bill Browder.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bill Browder from Chicago.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bill Browder was for years the largest foreign
investor in Russia and Putin`s champion but he turned into dogged


MELBER: With me now is that adversary Bill Browder. Thank you for
joining, I know it`s busy time for you. Under the Trump administration
late today, the customs and border patrol put out a statement saying that
you do have valid authorization. What is your response and what happened
to get to this point?

not sure if that is true. I read the statements and based on the timeline,
they claimed that they had cleared up this problem on Wednesday the 18th of
– last Wednesday. But I didn`t actually get my revocation of my – of my
ability to travel to America until Thursday. So I think there`s still some
issues to be ironed out. I`m very happy that the authorities in the U.S.
want to solve (AUDIO GAP) basically become Putin`s – fall into Putin`s
hands as using – becoming a tool for Putin to punish me. But this whole
– this whole incident has been left a little bit of a bad taste to my

MELBER: Do you belong on the Interpol list?

BROWDER: The person who belongs on the Interpol list is Vladimir Putin.
Vladimir Putin is a criminal, he`s a killer, and he was responsible for
covering up the murder of Sergei Magnitsky, my lawyer who was killed in
police custody in 2009. And it`s just crazy and ironic that instead of him
being the criminal, he then tries to label me as criminal and then go to
Interpol to try to have me arrested in any border I cross so I can be sent
back to Russia. It`s an insanity.

MELBER: Well, I want to ask you more about that and you`ve been a leader
on this stuff for a while, that people sometimes say thing are Kafkaesque
to refer to literary criticisms of unjust systems. I wonder if we`re
reaching a point where we need to describe this as Putinesque because
people know you`re your lawyer died in a Russian prison under those
questionable circumstances. And yet, I`m reading here from the New York
Times today the new accusation is all the more sinister for its cartoonish
details. Russian prosecutors contend, Mr. Browder, that you colluded with
an agent of Britain`s Foreign Intelligence Agence to cause the death of
Magnitsky by persuading Russian prison doctors to withhold care. Your

BROWDER: I think – I think that`s about the silliest thing I`ve ever
heard. So – and to add one more element to it, so according to their
version, I did all that terrible stuff and then I spent the last eight
years traveling all over the world fighting for justice and trying to get
the people who killed Magnitsky prosecuted. You know, what it says to me
is that Putin is kind of losing his mind a little bit here. He`s gotten so
crazy about the sanctions that have been put in place, the U.S. Magnitski
Act. Just last week, the Canadians passed the Magnitsky Act, here in
London in May, we passed the Magnitsky Act. Putin hates it so much that
he`s starting to get crazy. He hates it because he`s got a lot of money,
huge money in the west and this particular piece of legislation potentially
freezes and seizes that money.

MELBER: Stay with me. I want to bring in the former U.S. Ambassador to
Russia, Michael McFaul who actually spoke out about this recently as the
story was breaking. Ambassador, your view of what we just heard, the
latest which is the Trump administration asserting that they thought they
cleared this up by the middle of last week. Mr. Browder saying that
timeline doesn`t quite add up. And your view of the claim that maybe to
sanctions are hurting Vladimir Putin`s pocketbook.

respect to what is DHS is saying, what the State Department saying, and
what Bill knows, I`m glad they`re taking it seriously and they should get
it cleared up right away. I consider it an embarrassment to my government,
to my country that there was any ambiguity about the fact that Bill Browder
should be able to allowed to travel to our country. So that`s with respect
to that. With respect to the larger thing, of course, Bill is right. I`ve
listened to Vladimir Putin said across the table from him and I`ve listened
to him talk about the Magnitsky then Act, now Law. He doesn`t like it for
all the reasons Bill just said. And therefore Bill is one of his enemies.
And you see by this action that he will use any means that he can to try to
go after his enemies. And we need to be vigilant in fighting against them.

MELBER: Bill, you have clashed with the Putin government. They remain
part of the investigation into among other things the Trump Tower meeting.
Based on your knowledge of how Vladimir Putin operates and any evidence you
might have, do you believe that he was directly orchestrating that infamous
now meeting at Trump Tower with Trump campaign leadership?

BROWDER: I have no – I have no doubt in my mind that Putin was doing
everything he could to try to influence U.S. policy and particularly policy
towards these sanctions. When that meeting was set up, when this Natalia
Veselnitskaya, the lawyer got that meeting, you can be absolutely assured
that Putin was involved in the planning and the execution of that meeting.
It was too important an interaction for Putin not to have been involved in.
He`s a KGB officer, they don`t leave anything to chance, they plan
everything out right to the last detail in the KGB.

MELBER: So briefly on you and then I`m going to ambassador, you`re view is
based on your knowledge, that`s not something that would be freelanced at a
lower level. And then second, for the benefit of our viewers, you have
crossed paths (INAUDIBLE) with that Russian-linked lawyer. So do you have
biases against her here or you feel you can separate whatever those
financial disagreements where – with how the Kremlin runs these

BROWDER: Well, I haven`t had any bias against the lawyer and I don`t even
have any financial disagreements against with her. I was working with the
U.S. Department of Justice. I was a witness in a – in a criminal case and
a civil case in which the U.S. Department of Justice froze money from the
crime that Sergei Magnitski exposed in Russia and her client`s money was
frozen. So basically I`m working with the government here. And so, when I
see a woman who`s effectively representing accused money launderers who and
then trying to – effectively she`s trying to change U.S. law, this is not
bias, this is just about stating that you know, it`s absurd that a Russian
can be running around trying to spend millions of dollars influencing U.S.
policy and think that that`s OK and not even report it under any of the
reporting guidelines that are required when you do that sort of stuff in

MELBER: And Ambassador, final word from you and on the view that sanctions
maybe working. Although we hear a lot about how sanctions are either not
enough or to some degree people claim they`re irrelevant sometimes.

MCFAUL: Well, I take two things on that. I mean, one, economists have
tried to measure the impact on the economy and they differ on that. But
everybody believes they`re having some economic effect on Russia. Whether
you think it`s one percent of GDP or 0.5. Everybody sees that. But number
two, the evidence is much easier. Why if they`re not working is Vladimir
Putin trying so hard to lift them? Why is he sending Veselnitskaya to meet
with the Trump campaign to talk about lifting sanctions if he doesn`t
believe they`re having an effect? To me, it`s pretty straightforward that
they are having an effect.

MELBER: Ambassador McFaul, you have a way of cutting through it, even
though there`s a lot of names and details to keep track of. And Bill
Browder, I know we`re coming off a long day for you and it`s later in
London, thank you both for joining.

BROWDER: Thank you.

MCFAUL: Thank you.

MELBER: And still ahead, my exclusive interview with Motley Crue`s Nikki
Sixx on the opioid crisis. He battled addiction for years and tonight he
tells his story. That`s next on THE BEAT.


MELBER: My next guest knows the opioid problem well. Nikki Sixx was the
co-founder and bass player for the heavy metal band Motley Crue. He was a
drug addict, heroin in 1987. He was actually pronounced clinically dead
for two full minutes after an overdose. But he got clean and has stayed
clean and been a voice for different drug policies, writing books like The
Heroin Diaries and a new Op-Ed in the Los Angeles Times calling for a more
treatment-oriented approach to this crisis saying no one is a junkie by
choice, and no junkie is a lost cause. Joining me now on THE BEAT is Nikki
Sixx. Thanks for being here.

NIKKI SIXX, MUSICIAN: How are you doing?

MELBER: Doing great. You are someone who has not only survived but
thrived. Let`s start with how you got into drugs, why do people turn to

SIXX: I think people turn to drugs for different reasons. I believe that
us addicts are born with this disease, even though there is an invisible
line where if you keep using it long enough, you head into serious
addiction and it`s hard to get back to just using lightly, let`s say. For
me, it was around lifestyle of rock `n roll. A lot of my heroes were using
drugs and drinking. And I – you know, I adhered to that. I lived that
kind of a lifestyle. And it worked until it quick working. And I say that
to a lot of addicts that, you know, it does quit until it quits working and
it will quit working eventually.

MELBER: And you`ve been a voice for a lot of people. Obviously, people
look up to you. They love your music. Music brings people together.
You`re trying to start I think a broader conversation. I notice with the
reissue of the book, you also have this map on your Web site, sort of a
heat map. And you want people to share their experiences. And we can see
the dots around the country. Explain that.

SIXX: Yes. Well, what`s cool about the heat map is that people can
anonymously go on and plug in their location and write their story or read
other people`s story. And also you can get a lot of data on the state of
the epidemic that we`re living in right now.

MELBER: And when you look at this as something that has a policy
component, right, how do you compare from your view as an advocate what is
going on in the opioid crisis to maybe some of the drugs that were
proliferating when you were coming up as a rock star?

SIXX: Well, when I was coming up, so far as I know, there were no pill
forms of heroin. If there were, I was never introduced to it, thank God.
But a lot of – a lot of people that are dealing with addiction right now,
they`re dealing with it on a pain pill level. And it`s being prescribed to
them usually for a good reason, for dealing with pain itself. But then
when they`re overprescribed and insurance companies are lax in following up
on whose giving these prescriptions filled and how many prescriptions can
be filled at a time. I know CVS recently talked about only releasing one
week worth of pain pills at a time so that people can`t abuse them and
can`t also sell them to people who are – you know, they`re in high demand.
They`re very expensive. And when people can`t get these pills, then
they`re then going to interest street. And then you`re dealing with
needles and unregulated drugs. And you have a lot of overdoses there as
well with the medications being prescribed.

MELBER: There is a lifestyle aspect to this but there`s also a creative
part. As you know, a lot of people in creative industries run into this.
They come from abuse, sometimes people say yes, you know, maybe I don`t
need it, but I think I play better with it or I`m more creative with it or
have more fun with it. What do you say to that and do you think you`re
getting more done now when you`re sober or how do you compare to when you

SIXX: Well, I was thinking about 1987 and how I was barely able to get an
album done and a tour. And actually the tour was canceled, the last part
of the tour. And in 2017, I`m able to do a radio show, write books, do
photography, you know, be a better husband, a father and be part of these
conversations that were happening. So I really think the sobriety gives
you more energy and more creativity.

MELBER: I love it. I love that part of what you`ve been writing and
saying to people. I think you`re an influential person to do it.

SIXX: Yes, thank you.

MELBER: And I think when it comes to addiction and drug challenges or for
a lot of people what a mental health challenges, being reminded there are
so many people out there who battle this. There`s nothing wrong with being
in the battle, the most important thing is to get through it. You`re
obviously thriving. Nikki Sixx, thanks for spending some time on THE BEAT.

SIXX: Yes, thank you. Thank you guys very much.

MELBER: Absolutely. The book is The Heroin Diaries and it`s out this week
in let`s tenth-anniversary edition.


MELBER: Tonight, Rachel Maddow has a very special guest. You can see it -
- I don`t know how to do this very well – right here. Attorney General
Eric Holder, his first interview since leaving office. We will all be
watching. You may want the watch as well, 9:00 p.m. Eastern. Straight
ahead, “HARDBALL” with Chris Matthews.




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