Show: THE BEAT WITH ARI MELBER Date: September 1, 2017
Guest: Renato Mariotti, Maya Wiley, Paul Butler; Nafeesa Syeed, Michael Daniel, Malcolm Nance, Howard Dean, Erin Gloria Ryan, Michael Tomasky, Asha Dahya
KRISTEN WELKER, MSNBC ANCHOR: You too.
ARI MELBER, MSNBC HOST: Very excited about our show tonight. Have great weekend.
WELKER: You too. Thanks.
MELBER: I want to begin with Friday news, big news developing right now. In the Russia investigation news, the Trump White House may hope that people miss while heading into the holiday weekend. And, you know, some nights we have revelations about what Trump officials did regarding Russia and some nights the big story is a new clue about what Mueller is looking at. Well, right now, tonight`s story is both.
Revelation number one, the Trump hatched a secret plot with a political aide, Stephen Miller to fire Jim Comey which Trump`s own lawyer vetoed. And two, Mueller has now obtained that very letter. The one Mueller started writing to set up that controversial firing. According to a new report in The New York Times. It says the letter shows, "The original rationale for how Trump was going to explain firing Comey."
Now, Mueller has the letter but we do not here and neither does the Times. So -- well, Mueller knows whether it mentions Russia or it`s a cover story denying that Trump had Russia on his mind. We don`t know which it is but here is the legal significance tonight. If that first draft of the letter talks Russia, it suggests that the letter that Trump, Sessions and Rosenstein, those letters they actually put out about firing Comey were false, a cover story.
And that would provide new evidence that Trump ensnared DOJ leadership in a cover up about firing the FBI Director over Russia which could add to the obstruction case against the White House and of course put more pressure on Rod Rosenstein, the deputy attorney general to recuse himself from overseeing Mueller`s Russia case. Now, there`s option number two. If the letter, this original newly exposed letter that Trump was hatching with his political aide, if it didn`t mention Russia and has another reason for firing Comey, that would shed light on how the White House looked for all these another reasons for firing Comey that would shed light on how the White House looked for all these different reasons.
Some of them apparently true and some of them apparently false over how to fire Comey and whether the decision came from the justice department as they claim or from Trump himself. Either way, The New York Times report something about that letter which Bob Mueller has in his hand. Something in it was bad enough that Trump`s loyal aide and longtime lawyer, the man you see on your screen, Don McGahn put a stop to it.
Now what was happening during that fight when Trump`s top lawyer basically told him Mr. President, you can fire Jim Comey but not like this. Well, right now we`re going to show you. On Wednesday May 3rd, Comey gave what would be his last Congressional testimony as FBI Director and he made this comment that enraged Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES COMEY, FORMER FBI DIRECTOR: Look, this is terrible. It makes me mildly nauseous to think that we might have some impact on the election but honestly, it wouldn`t change the decision.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: And behind the scenes the White House was apparently smoldering but outside it was this happy face they put on. Very next day, Trump was celebrating the House passage of Trumpcare in the Rose Garden. That night he spoke at Nevada, New York City and then went dark.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Following that health care vote, President Trump made his way here to New York City. It`s his first trip to his hometown since the inauguration but he didn`t stay in Manhattan very long opting to spend the night instead in New Jersey.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: In New Jersey where the president tweeted a little bit about why it was a good thing he was there. And then the only thing on his public schedule for this critical weekend on May 6th was a phone call with the president of Peru. Trump was also spotted golfing that Saturday. Not by the press but a visitor who posted it on Instagram. So that`s all anyone knew about at the time. After the health care vote, the president went golfing.
Behind closed doors though, now we see from this Time`s reporting, it was during that first weekend in May that the president and his top aide Stephen Miller were drafting this letter about how to fire Comey. And yet at the same time and this is important. Attorney General Jeff Sessions and his deputy, Rod Rosentein were working on a "Parallel effort to fire Jim Comey." So, now we know that weekend was one of the most tense and consequential of the Trump presidency with a decision that would haunt Donald Trump and catalyze the appointment of this Russia Special Counsel Bob Mueller. But at the time, the public and the press were in the dark. The news was all about health care and the French elections.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On this Sunday, landslide victory. The overwhelming win in France as a Centrist political outside becomes president.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Though the president stayed out of public view at his New Jersey at state for nearly three days. Today his team was on television pushing for more action on health care.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Three days hunkered down out of public view and now we know why. Trump leaving those apparently tense weekend meetings returning to the White House late Sunday night and barreled right forward the next day with his Comey plan. Gathering Sessions and Rosenstein to the Oval Office. A meeting that we can tell you was not publicly disclosed until after Jim Comey was fired the next day.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHUCK TODD, MSNBC ANCHOR: Breaking news, Jim Comey is out at the FBI.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not politics as usual. This is very bizarre and unusual.
SEAN SPICER, WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: He made a determination that the FBI had director lost his confidence, made a recommendation to the attorney general, the attorney general concurred with that and forward that recommendation today on to the president who agreed with their -- with their conclusions.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why did you fire Director Comey?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Because he wasn`t doing a good job, very simply. He was not doing a good job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Donald Trump`s decision to fire the man in charge of the investigation into the Trump campaign will go down in history as one of the most strategically and counterproductive and legally ignorant things any president has ever done. Whether it was a high crime, it`s yet to be determine but tonight we know Bob Mueller is gathering methodically the secret evidence from the uppermost reaches of the White House to find out.
I want to bring in our panel on this big news with two former federal prosecutors, Renato Mariotti and Paul Butler. And also with me, lawyer and the new schools Maya Wiley. Welcome to each of you. Renato, you lay it out there, you look at what we`ve learned. It all looks different now that we know what was going on behind the scenes in those three days. So many questions for you from investigator perspective.
My first -- tonight, I want to begin with the most difficult question. What do you think Don McGahn would have seen in that letter that took him to the lengths of telling Donald Trump you can`t do it this way?
RENATO MARIOTTI, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, we recently learned, I saw it on my phone as I was preparing to come here on the show that The Washington Post has reported that that letter included a variety of complaints by Trump, including that Comey would not tell him that he, Trump, was not personally under investigation. So that would suggest and I could understand why Mr. Mcgahn had the reaction. It would suggest that the president was firing Mr. Comey because he wanted to make sure that he could have an FBI director that would ensure that he is not under investigation personally.
(CROSSTALK)
MELBER: And so you`re putting your finger on it. That would be door number one, that Trump started by saying the reason is Russia and that Don McGahn would then say no. And then they went to another reason, Hillary Clinton and they got the DOJ to write letters claiming that was the reason knowing at the time Don McGahn and your -- and your theory of the case being in on it, that wasn`t true, Renato.
MARIOTTI: That`s right. I mean, obviously, it`s a problem for all of these people because if you know -- if you conclude that the president has done something unlawful and you are trying to conceal it that can potentially create criminal liability for you and that means for all these people and, you know, including the folks at the top of the DOJ as well as the White House counsel. What I think is the most interesting and what I would love to find out is exactly what Mr. McGahn told the president.
If the president learn from Mr. McGahn that there was potential criminal liability and he was obstructing justice, if he undertook the actions that he outlined in the draft letter, that would go a very long way towards establishing the corruption intent that Mr. Mueller would need to establish for an obstruction charge.
MELBER: Maya?
MAYA WILEY, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT, SOCIAL JUSTICE: I agree. I -- it certainly doesn`t look good. And remember that this investigation really turned to obstruction of justice because of that meeting with Jeff Sessions at the White House. And that Donald Trump himself, started suggesting he was unhappy with Jeff Sessions for not being aggressive enough in protecting him from this investigation. So, you know, once you put in all together, all of the actions of Donald Trump, certainly it`s hard to imagine that there wasn`t some very active conversation happening at the time.
MELBER: Paul, again, I describe this as a theory because what we don`t know is the text of the letter. We don`t have it. The Times didn`t have it. There are leaks to the Post about it. But if it were blocked for Russia and then you had a cover story and then Russia comes out because Donald Trump coughed it up in an interview with Lester Holt which will go down as one of the most revealing presidential interviews about an investigation in T.V. history but -- or world history. But Paul Butler, does that mean that Meuller might want to actually get Don McGahn in front of the grand jury?
PAUL BUTLER, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: You know, he wants to know all about the circumstances of who wrote this letter, what were the different drafts and what was said. But just the fact the word Russia was mentioned in connection with Comey`s firing, I don`t think is immediately incriminating. If the president was ticked off because Comey wouldn`t publicly (INAUDIBLE) as he had privately, that doesn`t amount to obstruction of justice.
On the other hand, if the letter says that Comey`s being fired because Trump thinks that the investigation itself is wrong then that sounds like an attempt to impede an investigation. And this brings us to another important point here, Ari. James Comey is no hero in this matter. When he went on television and before the House Committee and made all of those allegations against Hillary Clinton without prosecuting her, without giving her a public forum to clear her name, he broke every rule in the Department of Justice book. And so, that letter that Rosenstein wrote suggesting that Comey should be fired and that was true. At the same time that it wasn`t the real reason in Trump`s mind.
MELBER: Well, I would push you on that, Paul. I don`t know that it was true. I would push you lawyer to lawyer to say it referenced legitimate policy concerns about Jim Comey, but whether it was true I think is matter that Mueller is investigating by which I mean was it the whole story from the DOJ about a personnel decision or was it citing potential legitimate criticisms in concert with a Monday Oval Office meeting from a president who said I`m firing him for other reasons, now give me a cover story.
WILEY: And he could have fired him much sooner. I mean, if that really was the reason, that had happened long before Trump ever ascended to the White House, so why didn`t he do it sooner?
BUTLER: Yes. Well, he needed a story. Certainly, Trump needed a story so we could have two trains running at the same time. One, we have Trump try to be Machiavellian, trying to enroll the justice department in a nefarious game to stop the investigation, that could be (INAUDIBLE) at the same time, he asks Rosenstein for his objective of opinion about whether Comey was doing a good job. Whether he deserve to remain director and Rosenstein very well have given him an object of good faith opinion about that.
MELBER: Maya, go ahead. I mean, the other of this, right, is that Rod Rosenstein is still nominally overseeing this investigation. Mueller has these letters and this information that cast doubt on his role. He could ultimately be fact witness to the firing while he`s trying to oversee it.
WILEY: Yes. That`s right. So, I think it -- look, it`s certainly true that we don`t know what was in that letter and we can`t make assumptions. I think it is critically important to the American people that there be the -- all of the members who are engaged in this investigation are clearly doing so independent of the president and with no suggestion that there`s going to be any tampering or interfering with an effective, thorough, and fair investigation, that hopefully will see the light of day in terms of the resolution of the findings of Mueller.
MELBER: And Renato, finally, Stephen Miller, where does he figure in a political appointee hatching all of this during those three dark days?
MARIOTTI: Well, at the very least, Miller is going to be an important witness. And I don`t think that he will be able to get -- will be shielded by executive privilege. I think --
MELBER: You`re saying -- let me pause right there. You`re saying as a Federal prosecutor, you think Stephen Miller could be hauled before the grand jury? I mean, we`ve never heard that before.
MARIOTTI: Oh, I think there`s no question given that he wrote this letter and we know that Mueller`s looking at obstruction because Trump`s attorneys wrote a letter to Mueller making various obstruction arguments. We just learned that yesterday. An attorney is not going to waste their time making those obstruction arguments unless they have good reason to believe that Mueller was looking at that. So, I think there`s no question Mueller is a witness and frankly, Mueller may have his own exposure here depending on what he knew in those conversations had with Ivanka and Jared Kushner and the president that weekend in the golf course.
MELBER: Fascinating. Paul, thank you very much for joining us. Renato and Maya you stay with me because we have another angle on this ahead. Mueller tapping a new secretive team of investigators specifically for Trump`s taxes and does and does he already have them? And will agents ever do anything that might force them into the open? Plus, new reporting on the Mueller investigation into Trump Jr.`s meeting with the Russians and what Paul -- Why Paul Manafort`s smartphone could actually end up a key piece of evidence.
And later, in this show, there is news tonight on what Russia is doing going into the 2018 election. Barack Obama`s former cyber security director is here. And we are not his subordinates. We don`t answer to him. John McCain setting the tone for the return to Washington next week. I`m Ari Melber and you`re watching The Beat.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MELBER: Several different Russia stories breaking right now on this Friday evening. Mueller obtaining Trump`s secret letter about firing FBI Director Jim Comey. A move Trump took to try to stifle the Russia investigation which only served to intensify it. You can apply the Alanis Morissette test to Trump`s impulsive decision and ask, isn`t it ironic to fire someone to stop the Russia inquiry only to trigger a larger Russia inquiry.
And tonight, we`re learning that Trump`s own counsel, Don McGahn tried to veto Trump`s first rationale for firing Comey. To code Alanis again, Isn`t it ironic the good advice that you just didn`t take. So that`s one story. Then there`s news Mueller is tapping a secret squad of investigators at the IRS for Trump`s taxes. The Daily Beast reporting that scoop. And former Federal prosecutor Renato Mariotti, part of our coverage tonight saying it, strongly indicates Mueller`s uncovered evidence of a tax crime.
Also learning more about those notes Paul Manafort took in the secret Trump tower meeting with Russians. A mention of political contributions near reference to the RNC. Now, those notes typed on a smart phone described by one source briefed on the matter as cryptic. Now that`s important. The phone part is key and here`s why.
KRISTEN WELKER, MSNBC ANCHOR: You too.
ARI MELBER, MSNBC HOST: Very excited about our show tonight. Have great weekend.
WELKER: You too. Thanks.
MELBER: I want to begin with Friday news, big news developing right now. In the Russia investigation news, the Trump White House may hope that people miss while heading into the holiday weekend. And, you know, some nights we have revelations about what Trump officials did regarding Russia and some nights the big story is a new clue about what Mueller is looking at. Well, right now, tonight`s story is both.
Revelation number one, the Trump hatched a secret plot with a political aide, Stephen Miller to fire Jim Comey which Trump`s own lawyer vetoed. And two, Mueller has now obtained that very letter. The one Mueller started writing to set up that controversial firing. According to a new report in The New York Times. It says the letter shows, "The original rationale for how Trump was going to explain firing Comey."
Now, Mueller has the letter but we do not here and neither does the Times. So -- well, Mueller knows whether it mentions Russia or it`s a cover story denying that Trump had Russia on his mind. We don`t know which it is but here is the legal significance tonight. If that first draft of the letter talks Russia, it suggests that the letter that Trump, Sessions and Rosenstein, those letters they actually put out about firing Comey were false, a cover story.
And that would provide new evidence that Trump ensnared DOJ leadership in a cover up about firing the FBI Director over Russia which could add to the obstruction case against the White House and of course put more pressure on Rod Rosenstein, the deputy attorney general to recuse himself from overseeing Mueller`s Russia case. Now, there`s option number two. If the letter, this original newly exposed letter that Trump was hatching with his political aide, if it didn`t mention Russia and has another reason for firing Comey, that would shed light on how the White House looked for all these another reasons for firing Comey that would shed light on how the White House looked for all these different reasons.
Some of them apparently true and some of them apparently false over how to fire Comey and whether the decision came from the justice department as they claim or from Trump himself. Either way, The New York Times report something about that letter which Bob Mueller has in his hand. Something in it was bad enough that Trump`s loyal aide and longtime lawyer, the man you see on your screen, Don McGahn put a stop to it.
Now what was happening during that fight when Trump`s top lawyer basically told him Mr. President, you can fire Jim Comey but not like this. Well, right now we`re going to show you. On Wednesday May 3rd, Comey gave what would be his last Congressional testimony as FBI Director and he made this comment that enraged Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES COMEY, FORMER FBI DIRECTOR: Look, this is terrible. It makes me mildly nauseous to think that we might have some impact on the election but honestly, it wouldn`t change the decision.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: And behind the scenes the White House was apparently smoldering but outside it was this happy face they put on. Very next day, Trump was celebrating the House passage of Trumpcare in the Rose Garden. That night he spoke at Nevada, New York City and then went dark.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Following that health care vote, President Trump made his way here to New York City. It`s his first trip to his hometown since the inauguration but he didn`t stay in Manhattan very long opting to spend the night instead in New Jersey.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: In New Jersey where the president tweeted a little bit about why it was a good thing he was there. And then the only thing on his public schedule for this critical weekend on May 6th was a phone call with the president of Peru. Trump was also spotted golfing that Saturday. Not by the press but a visitor who posted it on Instagram. So that`s all anyone knew about at the time. After the health care vote, the president went golfing.
Behind closed doors though, now we see from this Time`s reporting, it was during that first weekend in May that the president and his top aide Stephen Miller were drafting this letter about how to fire Comey. And yet at the same time and this is important. Attorney General Jeff Sessions and his deputy, Rod Rosentein were working on a "Parallel effort to fire Jim Comey." So, now we know that weekend was one of the most tense and consequential of the Trump presidency with a decision that would haunt Donald Trump and catalyze the appointment of this Russia Special Counsel Bob Mueller. But at the time, the public and the press were in the dark. The news was all about health care and the French elections.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On this Sunday, landslide victory. The overwhelming win in France as a Centrist political outside becomes president.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Though the president stayed out of public view at his New Jersey at state for nearly three days. Today his team was on television pushing for more action on health care.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Three days hunkered down out of public view and now we know why. Trump leaving those apparently tense weekend meetings returning to the White House late Sunday night and barreled right forward the next day with his Comey plan. Gathering Sessions and Rosenstein to the Oval Office. A meeting that we can tell you was not publicly disclosed until after Jim Comey was fired the next day.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHUCK TODD, MSNBC ANCHOR: Breaking news, Jim Comey is out at the FBI.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not politics as usual. This is very bizarre and unusual.
SEAN SPICER, WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: He made a determination that the FBI had director lost his confidence, made a recommendation to the attorney general, the attorney general concurred with that and forward that recommendation today on to the president who agreed with their -- with their conclusions.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why did you fire Director Comey?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Because he wasn`t doing a good job, very simply. He was not doing a good job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Donald Trump`s decision to fire the man in charge of the investigation into the Trump campaign will go down in history as one of the most strategically and counterproductive and legally ignorant things any president has ever done. Whether it was a high crime, it`s yet to be determine but tonight we know Bob Mueller is gathering methodically the secret evidence from the uppermost reaches of the White House to find out.
I want to bring in our panel on this big news with two former federal prosecutors, Renato Mariotti and Paul Butler. And also with me, lawyer and the new schools Maya Wiley. Welcome to each of you. Renato, you lay it out there, you look at what we`ve learned. It all looks different now that we know what was going on behind the scenes in those three days. So many questions for you from investigator perspective.
My first -- tonight, I want to begin with the most difficult question. What do you think Don McGahn would have seen in that letter that took him to the lengths of telling Donald Trump you can`t do it this way?
RENATO MARIOTTI, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, we recently learned, I saw it on my phone as I was preparing to come here on the show that The Washington Post has reported that that letter included a variety of complaints by Trump, including that Comey would not tell him that he, Trump, was not personally under investigation. So that would suggest and I could understand why Mr. Mcgahn had the reaction. It would suggest that the president was firing Mr. Comey because he wanted to make sure that he could have an FBI director that would ensure that he is not under investigation personally.
(CROSSTALK)
MELBER: And so you`re putting your finger on it. That would be door number one, that Trump started by saying the reason is Russia and that Don McGahn would then say no. And then they went to another reason, Hillary Clinton and they got the DOJ to write letters claiming that was the reason knowing at the time Don McGahn and your -- and your theory of the case being in on it, that wasn`t true, Renato.
MARIOTTI: That`s right. I mean, obviously, it`s a problem for all of these people because if you know -- if you conclude that the president has done something unlawful and you are trying to conceal it that can potentially create criminal liability for you and that means for all these people and, you know, including the folks at the top of the DOJ as well as the White House counsel. What I think is the most interesting and what I would love to find out is exactly what Mr. McGahn told the president.
If the president learn from Mr. McGahn that there was potential criminal liability and he was obstructing justice, if he undertook the actions that he outlined in the draft letter, that would go a very long way towards establishing the corruption intent that Mr. Mueller would need to establish for an obstruction charge.
MELBER: Maya?
MAYA WILEY, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT, SOCIAL JUSTICE: I agree. I -- it certainly doesn`t look good. And remember that this investigation really turned to obstruction of justice because of that meeting with Jeff Sessions at the White House. And that Donald Trump himself, started suggesting he was unhappy with Jeff Sessions for not being aggressive enough in protecting him from this investigation. So, you know, once you put in all together, all of the actions of Donald Trump, certainly it`s hard to imagine that there wasn`t some very active conversation happening at the time.
MELBER: Paul, again, I describe this as a theory because what we don`t know is the text of the letter. We don`t have it. The Times didn`t have it. There are leaks to the Post about it. But if it were blocked for Russia and then you had a cover story and then Russia comes out because Donald Trump coughed it up in an interview with Lester Holt which will go down as one of the most revealing presidential interviews about an investigation in T.V. history but -- or world history. But Paul Butler, does that mean that Meuller might want to actually get Don McGahn in front of the grand jury?
PAUL BUTLER, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: You know, he wants to know all about the circumstances of who wrote this letter, what were the different drafts and what was said. But just the fact the word Russia was mentioned in connection with Comey`s firing, I don`t think is immediately incriminating. If the president was ticked off because Comey wouldn`t publicly (INAUDIBLE) as he had privately, that doesn`t amount to obstruction of justice.
On the other hand, if the letter says that Comey`s being fired because Trump thinks that the investigation itself is wrong then that sounds like an attempt to impede an investigation. And this brings us to another important point here, Ari. James Comey is no hero in this matter. When he went on television and before the House Committee and made all of those allegations against Hillary Clinton without prosecuting her, without giving her a public forum to clear her name, he broke every rule in the Department of Justice book. And so, that letter that Rosenstein wrote suggesting that Comey should be fired and that was true. At the same time that it wasn`t the real reason in Trump`s mind.
MELBER: Well, I would push you on that, Paul. I don`t know that it was true. I would push you lawyer to lawyer to say it referenced legitimate policy concerns about Jim Comey, but whether it was true I think is matter that Mueller is investigating by which I mean was it the whole story from the DOJ about a personnel decision or was it citing potential legitimate criticisms in concert with a Monday Oval Office meeting from a president who said I`m firing him for other reasons, now give me a cover story.
WILEY: And he could have fired him much sooner. I mean, if that really was the reason, that had happened long before Trump ever ascended to the White House, so why didn`t he do it sooner?
BUTLER: Yes. Well, he needed a story. Certainly, Trump needed a story so we could have two trains running at the same time. One, we have Trump try to be Machiavellian, trying to enroll the justice department in a nefarious game to stop the investigation, that could be (INAUDIBLE) at the same time, he asks Rosenstein for his objective of opinion about whether Comey was doing a good job. Whether he deserve to remain director and Rosenstein very well have given him an object of good faith opinion about that.
MELBER: Maya, go ahead. I mean, the other of this, right, is that Rod Rosenstein is still nominally overseeing this investigation. Mueller has these letters and this information that cast doubt on his role. He could ultimately be fact witness to the firing while he`s trying to oversee it.
WILEY: Yes. That`s right. So, I think it -- look, it`s certainly true that we don`t know what was in that letter and we can`t make assumptions. I think it is critically important to the American people that there be the -- all of the members who are engaged in this investigation are clearly doing so independent of the president and with no suggestion that there`s going to be any tampering or interfering with an effective, thorough, and fair investigation, that hopefully will see the light of day in terms of the resolution of the findings of Mueller.
MELBER: And Renato, finally, Stephen Miller, where does he figure in a political appointee hatching all of this during those three dark days?
MARIOTTI: Well, at the very least, Miller is going to be an important witness. And I don`t think that he will be able to get -- will be shielded by executive privilege. I think --
MELBER: You`re saying -- let me pause right there. You`re saying as a Federal prosecutor, you think Stephen Miller could be hauled before the grand jury? I mean, we`ve never heard that before.
MARIOTTI: Oh, I think there`s no question given that he wrote this letter and we know that Mueller`s looking at obstruction because Trump`s attorneys wrote a letter to Mueller making various obstruction arguments. We just learned that yesterday. An attorney is not going to waste their time making those obstruction arguments unless they have good reason to believe that Mueller was looking at that. So, I think there`s no question Mueller is a witness and frankly, Mueller may have his own exposure here depending on what he knew in those conversations had with Ivanka and Jared Kushner and the president that weekend in the golf course.
MELBER: Fascinating. Paul, thank you very much for joining us. Renato and Maya you stay with me because we have another angle on this ahead. Mueller tapping a new secretive team of investigators specifically for Trump`s taxes and does and does he already have them? And will agents ever do anything that might force them into the open? Plus, new reporting on the Mueller investigation into Trump Jr.`s meeting with the Russians and what Paul -- Why Paul Manafort`s smartphone could actually end up a key piece of evidence.
And later, in this show, there is news tonight on what Russia is doing going into the 2018 election. Barack Obama`s former cyber security director is here. And we are not his subordinates. We don`t answer to him. John McCain setting the tone for the return to Washington next week. I`m Ari Melber and you`re watching The Beat.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MELBER: Several different Russia stories breaking right now on this Friday evening. Mueller obtaining Trump`s secret letter about firing FBI Director Jim Comey. A move Trump took to try to stifle the Russia investigation which only served to intensify it. You can apply the Alanis Morissette test to Trump`s impulsive decision and ask, isn`t it ironic to fire someone to stop the Russia inquiry only to trigger a larger Russia inquiry.
And tonight, we`re learning that Trump`s own counsel, Don McGahn tried to veto Trump`s first rationale for firing Comey. To code Alanis again, Isn`t it ironic the good advice that you just didn`t take. So that`s one story. Then there`s news Mueller is tapping a secret squad of investigators at the IRS for Trump`s taxes. The Daily Beast reporting that scoop. And former Federal prosecutor Renato Mariotti, part of our coverage tonight saying it, strongly indicates Mueller`s uncovered evidence of a tax crime.
Also learning more about those notes Paul Manafort took in the secret Trump tower meeting with Russians. A mention of political contributions near reference to the RNC. Now, those notes typed on a smart phone described by one source briefed on the matter as cryptic. Now that`s important. The phone part is key and here`s why.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST: The whole contact took how long? How long was the meeting?
DONALD TRUMP, JR., SON OF DONALD TRUMP: About 20 minutes or so.
HANNITY: About 20 minutes. And Jared left after 5 or 10?
TRUMP JR.: Yes.
HANNITY: Like she said? And Paul Manafort was on his?
TRUMP JR.: On his phone.
HANNITY: The whole time?
TRUMP JR.: Pretty much.
HANNITY: Pretty much.
TRUMP JR.: It -listen, like I said --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP JR.: -- pretty apparent that this was not what we were in there talking about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: On his phone the whole time. Now, that may have been true and also terribly misleading. Trump Jr. suggesting that being on your phone would be a sign of disinterest, maybe playing around. We don`t know if it was Solitaire or texting or Candy Crush. This reporting today though is he was using his phone to take notes, not a sign of disinterest. I`m joined now by Malcolm Nance, the former counterterror intelligence officer, and back with me, Renato Mariotti. Renator, was he playing on his phone or was he taking notes?
MARIOTTI: Well, if the story that we heard from NBC News is correct, he was taking notes. And that`s really interesting because the conversation was supposedly about adopting orphans from Russia according to Trump junior. And I think really what that goes back to is how foolish Trump Jr. was to go and make public statements on his own, in his own voice on the Hannity Show and elsewhere. Now he`s got statements that will be used against him if he`s ever on the witness stand.
MELBER: Malcolm, Paul Manafort we now know was up to all of this in these meetings, aware of these contacts and then was out defending against them as a campaign leader, a chair, spokesperson and now you look at that and some of the language becomes more telling. For example, instead of just saying what the truth was, he would refer to our position about Russia. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL MANAFORT, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Mr. Trump said that his taxes are under audit and he will not be releasing them. It`s nothing to do with Russia. It`s nothing to do with any country other than the United States. And his normal tax auditing process. So, that issue will be dealt with when the audits are done.
NORAH O`DONNELL, CBS ANCHOR: So to be clear Mr. Trump has no financial relationships with any Russian oligarchs?
MANAFORT: That`s what he said. That`s what our position is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: That`s what he said. That`s what our position is. He doesn`t say that`s true.
MALCOLM NANCE, FORMER UNITED STATES NAVY SENIOR CHIEF PETTY OFFICER: No. You know what`s fascinating about this is, you know, in the intelligence community we have this thing called resistance techniques. And these are little dodges that you find that you can get away with answering a question by stating a fact but without telling the truth. And if you look at all the statements related to this and I`m sure you as a lawyer too understand that.
You can state a fact out there that, you know, this is what Mr. Trump said. That`s what our position is. Well, that`s your position but that isn`t actually a fact of law that`s come up before them. Did you have any relations with these -- with this foreign power? Interesting -- I also want to point out a little thing about the donations thing. You know, if Manafort was on his phone, he was probably keeping a form of minutes on there.
And to a certain extent, that reference to donations can only come out to one of two things. Either Natalia Veselnitskaya was actually talking about the intercepted information they claim they got from Hillary Clinton which involved donations or they were talking about giving you a donation. Neither one of them is good for Manafort or the Trump team.
MELBER: Right. It appears the actual word according to Ken Dilanian`s NBC reporting was kind of contribution to your point. Where were they headed? Renato, about Manafort, you wrote, you concluded he has significant criminal liability. How does that affect where the case goes?
MARIOTTI: Well, I think the cases to Manafort is -- it appears to be the furthest along to anyone. Whenever the FBI comes and executes a search warrant at your home, you know that you`re in very significant criminal jeopardy. You have to be taking it very seriously. It goes without saying, right? I mean, it literally means that a judge decided that there was probable cause to believe a crime occurred and that evidence of that crime was at your house.
So, Manafort is in a very tough spot and I think this only makes things more difficult for Paul Manafort because it just gives another front for him to be defending on. So, you know, there`s these potential disclosures that he made that were -- that could have been false. There`s, you know, obviously, you know, also now this Trump Tower meeting and who knows. The tax -- the tax liability that you talked about earlier could be related to him as well. We don`t know.
MELBER: Renato Mariotti, former Federal prosecutor, thanks for being here. Malcolm, stay with me. We`ve got that other story I mentioned. Russia still at it. New reporting on Kremlin-linked attacks on the U.S. Election system and public debate. And I`m going to show you the context for this disturbing video. This is a Utah nurse who was arrested screaming, dragged from a hospital when she declined to provide an illegal request for blood of a patient. The former chair of a police oversight agency joins me.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MELBER: Before we turn to our next story, I want to show you some live images coming into our news room now, 6:30 p.m. East Coast Time. 5:30 in Crosby, Texas where you see this fire raging. This is a chemical plant that was hurt and affected by Hurricane Harvey. We are told the petro chemicals in the labs and in the plant there. And you can see obviously a fire that is not anywhere near under control that is billowing a very heavy black smoke from the wide shot as we pull out.
And obviously authorities, we understand are in route trying to deal with it. We don`t have more information yet but I wanted to show you this. A story of obvious proportions related to both the hurricane and the risk faced by locals there. Crosby, Texas, 5:27 p.m. local time. We`re monitoring it and we`ll bring you updates here throughout the hour and throughout the evening on MSNBC as we learn what`s happening there. Obviously a dangerous scene unfolding in Crosby, Texas.
I want to turn now to this other story I`d mention. Developing news about how Vladmir Putin is continuing attacks on the United States election system and public debate. Bloomberg reporting today, pro-Russian cyberattackers are trying to undermine the U.S. political system. This is not a story about 2016. This is a story about now and in the future and the "For (INAUDIBLE) of more recent assaults, a preview of what could come in the midterms."
Trump meanwhile insisting Russia may not even be behind the 2016 hacks. The report showing Putin continues to infiltrate American debate. Bloomberg sites as an example, John McCain who was on Twitter after Trump`s comments about Charlottesville urging a more forceful condemnation and bigotry with hours. There was a coordinated counterattack pro-Russian bot cyborgs promoting accusations that it was McCain allied with neo-Nazis in the past.
For the story, we go to Bloomberg`s national security reporter, Nafeesa Syeed, who broke it. Do we have Nafeesa Syeed? We are in live T.V. and sometimes we see the wrong person. That`s Michael Daniel (INAUDIBLE) who is Barack Obama`s former cyber chief and a great guest but Nafeesa, we go to you first. Thanks for being here.
NAFEESA SYEED, NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER, BLOOMBERG: Thanks.
MELBER: What did you find here and what is the link back to Russia?
SYEED: Well, I spoke to a lot of researchers. This has become sort of an emerging field. So last year we heard a lot about Russian meddling but these researchers and some of these are recent efforts within this year that have started. They really go in and track what they`re seeing as what they called Russian bot and cyber activity. So some of these are automated accounts, some of them have some human element especially on Twitter.
We`re also seeing these kinds of attacks moved to other sites like Facebook, YouTube, LinkedIn. And so, what we`re seeing is whether it -- these -- whether we can say they`re actually directly from the Kremlin, some researchers say they are. At the least, we can say they`re what researchers call pro-Russian or Russia linked or Russian aligned and they tend to really promote certain narratives that seem to either favor Russia or favor Russian kinds of interests or what they call influence operations.
MELBER: So, to drill on that, how does it favor Russia to falsely accuse John McCain of having these links?
SYEED: Well, it`s way to just say, discredit someone who has been critical of Russia, for instance. And so, this way, what researchers tell me is what they`re seeing is that these kinds of efforts where they can take say, you know, opinions that are on the fringe of the internet and try to as much as possible gain traction over you know, sort of on social media so that it becomes part of mainstream narrative. And so, that`s part of what we saw that researchers tracked at the digital forensic research lab around John McCain. Within minutes, somehow, they were trying to create this narrative.
Even if it was based on truth, you know, Senator McCain had visited Ukraine and met with some leaders that they accuse of having neo-Nazi roots, but what we`re seeing then is how they`re taking that narrative and trying to push it to then question how can someone like John McCain condemn what President Trump`s reaction to Charlottesville. And that`s when this happened. That`s important to note as well, sort of banking on these very high profile events and shaping narratives around that.
MELBER: Well, and your reporting is such a key context because people could go online that day or that week and think they are looking at something that reflects some kind of American debate, whether they agree with it or not. And that actually is reflecting as you say these Russian linked attempts to do something that is totally unrelated. It`s just fascinating. Nafeesa Syeed, thanks for sharing your reporting with us.
SYEED: Thank you.
MELBER: I want to turn to this promise to this other news on Russia hacking. The New York Times reporting that in the 2016 election there were rampant problems in the state and local voting systems and they were, more widespread than previously thought, impacting voter registration, local databases and more. Michael Daniel who served as Cyber Security Coordinator in the Obama White House tells the Times in this news story, "We don`t know if any of the problems were an accident. The random problems you get with computer systems or whether it was a local hacker or get this, actual malfeasance by a sovereign nation state." With me now is Michael Daniel, and back with me Malcolm Nance.
And Michael, you got a preview a moment ago when we showed you in the earlier segment, you were saying something here, and I know a measured and careful way but something with big implications which is the months old talking point that 2016 hacking didn`t result in any change of outcome may be overstated and that there may be larger problems and how far hackers got in 2016.
MICHAEL DANIEL, CYBERSECURITY COORDINATOR UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA: So I would say that the -- I would still stand behind the statement that the outcome of the election was not affected by anything that the Russians did. But I would say that it takes a long time to do the forensic work to find out exactly how far any hackers may have gotten into the systems that may have been targeted during the 2016 election.
MELBER: And so -- I mean, again, the headline, the Time story goes deep and you`re in it but it seems to suggest that the actual way we do local elections may have been more affected or intruded than previously reported.
DANIEL: Well, certainly it shows the vulnerability of the systems that are spread across the country at the state and local level that definitely need to be shored up in the future as your previous story was talking about. It`s clear that the Russians and others will probably make similar attempts in the future and we need to be increasing the security of our electoral infrastructure.
MELBER: Malcolm, my observation is, it doesn`t seem like this is going to normal way of investigations when people say, we`ll see where the facts leave. There was a Russia I think to kind of calm people about all this. And now in drips and drabs at the local level when the forensics, as Michel says, having been even finished were hearing, actually some of these hackers linked to Russia may have gotten in deeper.
NANCE: Well, we heard about this story last year where we discovered that electoral rolls in several states had been -- had been probed by a foreign actor. Some subcontractors to other states have been probed by foreign intelligence agencies believed to be the Russian military intelligence, the GRU. You know, until I read that Times story this morning, I was part of that group that believed, hey, you know, the Russians didn`t manage to get down to the electoral process. President Obama warned them off of that. That story makes me wonder. There`s been no forensics done on this. No one has really looked backward to see and certainly, Homeland Security hasn`t. And this is a national infrastructure project because look, Russia has weaponized information and learned to effectively attack democracy with our own Democrat systems. It must be looked into.
MELBER: And Michael, briefly, is the Trump administration taking this seriously enough?
DANIEL: I can`t really speak for all the work that the Trump administration is doing but certainly the -- some of the officials they have in places such as Tom Bossard and Rob Joyce at the White House will take this very seriously.
MELBER: Michael, you`re making my head spin. You directed cyber for Obama. The President of the United States says, he can`t say whether he was behind this and you don`t know whether they`re taking it serious?
DANIEL: Well, I think that the individuals that they have in various places across the government do take this very seriously. And there are a lot of career staff at both the Department of Homeland Security --
MELBER: What about the President?
DANIEL: I can`t speak for how this President is treating this issue.
MELBER: I appreciate your service and I understand you`re measured. Malcolm Nance, Michael Daniel, thank you, both. Concerning stuff.
Ahead, is there a Republican revolt? McCain says, Donald Trump is poorly informed and it`s his call about what Congress is doing next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MELBER: Turning to politics. Next month could be even harder for Donald Trump than expected. Congress comes back to D.C. next week and some are in revolt. John McCain with a blistering message to Trump, saying we`re not his subordinates, we don`t answer to him. We must serve as a check on his power. And that Trump is poorly informed and could be impulsive." And that`s pressure from lawmakers. That`s before Trump, of course, moves forward on an expected decision on DACA, the program that provides place for children who came to this country -- who are brought to this country as children to stay in this country.
Also, pressure on a potential shut down, funding for Harvey and then this Hail Mary, tax reform. Meantime, the Washington Post reporting that Trump still calls his former Chief Strategist Steve Bannon from the personal phone when General Kelly is not around. With me on the politics, Governor Howard Dean and the Daily Beast Erin Gloria Ryan and Michael Tomasky. Governor, take your pick. What do you think?
HOWARD DEAN, FORMER VERMONT GOVERNOR: Two things. First, McCain`s a maverick so he doesn`t speak for anybody in the Senate besides himself for the possible exception of Lindsey Graham. See 00 let`s see if others say this. Second of all, however, McCain just got back from Arizona. My personal belief is that what`s going on in Arizona is putting Arizona in play for the Democrats in 2018 in the Senate race. And if DACA happens to be overturned, I can`t imagine how the Latino community is not going to vote about 90 percent Democratic and they`re going to come out. That is the single biggest issue and the single most unfair issue and the single most prosecutorial issue if you will. That`s going to motivate Hispanics in 2018.
ERIN GLORIA RYAN, THE DAILY BEAST SENIOR EDITOR: Well, I think this is John McCain way of saying, I like presidents who don`t alienate their own party. This was -- you know, talk is cheap though because John McCain on one hand for all of his kind of saber-rattling about Donald Trump in a lot is of ways has sort of fallen into line with the rest of the party. I think this kind of serves as a warning to Trump that he can`t act like he is the boss of them anymore, of course. But it also highlights the fact that during 2017, Trump has had no major legislative accomplishments.
MELBER: Nada.
RYAN: If he wants to have legislative accomplishments, he has to start playing nice with his own guys.
MELBER: Right. And Michael Tomasky, that goes to the old saying: nobody knew tax reform would be this hard.
MICHAEL TOMASKY, THE DAILY BEAST SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: One of my favorite old sayings. But I think we all did know tax reform was going to be this harder or all of us but one. Tax reform on major scale hasn`t happened Ari, as you know, since 1986. There`s a reason for that. It`s big, it`s complicated, there are a lot of moving parts. There are more -- well, there aren`t actually more lobbyists in Washington now than there were back then. I don`t think, but they`re spending two or three times the money that they were back then. It`s a very difficult thing to do. And I actually looked up today, thinking about coming on here tonight, how the vote went in 1986 on the tax reform bill, stunningly bipartisan. You know, majorities of Democrats and Republicans in both Houses voted for it. That`s something that would never ever, ever happen today.
MELBER: I mean, that`s -- yes.
TOMASKY: And Trump`s lack of engagement and his low approval rating both combined to make it that much harder.
MELBER: Right. That`s fascinating. You`re speaking to legislative strategy. There are some things that tend to happen on party lines. Historically, taxes require more. Governor Dean, I don`t know how much you listen to Jay Z but you know, he said it money talks, the whole word`s about to hear me out. And that`s true whenever you go at the tax code. The money talks, people get mad when they figure out whether you`re going to hit their pocketbook and paycheck, right? How hard is it to actually get bipartisan tax reform?
DEAN: Well, what they`ll -- what they`ll probably do is just pass tax reform and run the deficit up which interestingly the committee for responsible budget which is a more Republican leaning organization is very much against as you might suspect. But I think Michael is right. It`s almost impossible to do this with a margin of two votes in the Senate. And so, I just don`t see how they`re going to get this done and make the kinds of compromises. Not only is Trump obviously is incompetent President but you also got the most bitterly divided legislature that I`ve seen in my lifetime. I just - I don`t see how they do this.
MELBER: And Erin, there is an Obama effect here that even Donald Trump and Republican Congress are having trouble undoing some of the humanitarian or progressive things he`s done. Let me read you a quote about DACA. "These are kids who know no other country." Who said it? Is it a liberal, is it a progressive, is it an Obama official? It`s Paul Ryan today embracing an Obama rule because once it was put in place, they don`t want to undo it.
RYAN: Right. And you know, it would with one thing if Donald Trump had any political capital to spend on you know, undoing something that sounds so terrible to undo, but he doesn`t have any political capital to expend. He`s extremely unpopular. He`s unpopular to the point he`s alienated his own party. Like John McCain, who knows what he wanted to accomplish by writing this Op-Ed. But I sort of think that either way --
MELBER: I think it was a long tweet storm. It`s a very long tweet storm.
RYAN: Yes. He`s given -- it was this very long tweet storm. That`s what -- that`s the way the President would understand it. I think that it was - - you know, maybe just giving the President a middle finger was its own end. Maybe it wasn`t like that he really thought that anybody would happen. He just wanted Donald Trump to feel bad and that`s enough for them.
MELBER: Well, you know what they say about feelings?
RYAN: What do they say about feelings?
MELBER: They feel better when you let them out.
RYAN: (INAUDIBLE)
MELBER: It`s something they say. Governor Dean and Michael Tomasky, thank you, Erin stays. I want to turn to something else that is very important that we wanted to bring you on THE BEAT. This is new video that shows a very controversial arrest of a nurse in Salt Lake City. Let me explain, Police handcuffing and dragging her because she refused the police`s unlawful request for a patient`s blood. Now, first, she explains to police why she can`t release the patient`s blood without a warrant under the law and hospital policy. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The patient can`t consent. He`s told me repeatedly that he doesn`t have a warrant. And the patient is not under arrest. So I`m just trying to do what I`m supposed to do. That`s all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s the one that`s told me no.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, but sir, you`re making a huge mistake right now. Like, you`re making a huge mistake because you`re threatening a nurse.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. No, we`re done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Now that was the explanation provided. And you could hear in the background one hospital administrator saying are you really threatening a nurse. Here is what happened next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh please.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re done. You`re under arrest. We`re done.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. Somebody, help. Help me. Help! Stop!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re assaulting me! You`re assaulting me! Stop! I`ve done nothing wrong!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Salt Lake City`s Mayor has said this arrest is completely unacceptable. Police Chief saying he`s "alarmed and that there is an internal review." You should also know, under the law police may not take blood unless they have consent or a warrant. This officer did not have either but lashed out at the nurse in this apparently unlawful arrest. I want to bring back Maya Wiley who actually has recently finished her term there, here tenure as New York City`s Police Oversight Board Reviewer. You review civilian complaints. What do you think of what you see there?
WILEY: I thought it was shocking and shocking abuse of rights of a citizen by a police force and by police officers who actually had no regard for the constitution of the United States and probably no regard for their training and the patrol guides that are probably subject -- that are probably subject to.
MELBER: You see this is on video. This is with witnesses, this is with hospital security. Do you see this mind set in some, not all, but in some officers that any resistance of their request, in this case, what is apparently an unlawful request will not be allowed?
WILEY: I think we should make very clear that there are obviously a lot of police officers who abide by the law and who police in a way that is consistent with the law and the rights of citizens. This is certainly something though that happens, unfortunately, which is officers have so much of a sense of their own power that they literally get angry when they are not getting what they want and then they abuse their power.
MELBER: Right, and it`s supposed to be rule of law and not rule of anger. Maya, I want you to stay with me for our continuing coverage and we will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MELBER: It is not exactly been your normal August mood in the newsroom and a lot of news we`ve been covering but it is Friday on THE BEAT so it is time to fall back. It`s Fallback Friday, a segment some people, some people dislike and some people don`t even understand. The idea is that you need to fall back if you need to chill out, relax or even re-asses your poor choices this week. And we have a tremendous panel to discuss Asha Dahya from GirlTalkHQ, and here at the table, the Daily Beast Erin Gloria Ryan back with is Maya Wiley. Erin, who needs to fall back?
RYAN: Kid Rock needs to fall back. Kid Rock this week was accused of breaking campaign finance law by a watch dog group. Kid Rock responded (INAUDIBLE) with some body language telling them to F-off and to leave him the F alone, basically. And he was going to spend his holiday weekend working. you know, he was selling shirts, to be fair, that said Kid Rock for Senate which led some people to believe that Kid Rock might be running for Senate.
MELBER: Kid Rock the musician.
RYAN: Right. Kid Rock the musician and an adult man, not a kid, that he would -- he would be running for Senate. And actually, what`s really funny is the watch dog organization that pointed out he might be violating campaign finance laws is helmed by a man Paul S. Ryan. Not the Paul Ryan from Washington, different one. I love that the last name Ryan is going everywhere.
WILEY: Yes.
MELBER: Who needs to fall back Maya?
WILEY: Ivanka needs to fall back because she`s knocking women down by ignoring the (INAUDIBLE) and wanting to reverse the Obama era rule that`s going to require companies, large companies to report on their pay based on gender and race and ethnicity.
MELBER: I thought that was her thing though.
WILEY: Apparently women who work, maybe don`t have to work as hard as other women who work and therefore don`t care.
MELBER: Asha, who needs to fall back?
ASHA DAHYA, EDITOR IN CHIEF, GIRLTALKHQ: Well, it`s going to have to be L`Oreal U.K. Earlier this week, they made a huge announcement where they signed they signed their first openly transgender model Munroe Bergdorf which is a huge deal. Munroe is a trans woman of color and this is an industry which doesn`t have a lot diversity, so the big deal. However, a couple days later, the Daily Mail published some comments that Munroe had written in the aftermath of the Charlottesville rally. Understandably, she was upset by the racism and called out white privilege," yes, all white people," are the inheritance of racism throughout the years. And because of this, many people were outraged.
Subsequently, L`Oreal U.K. decided to part ways with her saying, "listen, we`re all about championing diversity and inclusion but what Munroe said does not represent our values. So what needs to fall back right now is L`Oreal U.K. and companies and big brands like them who say they want to champion diversity and inclusion but then claim that their values are --
MELBER: Right, but not even -- yes, not diversity of ideas if --
DAHYA: Not at all.
MELBER: -- if she can`t have her own opinions.
All right, I`ve got one. Who needs to fall back? I`m going to put this on the screen. If you look at this, Target has released its Halloween collection in August. Halloween in August. My vote is retailers need to fall back from stuffing us with their sales pitches for holiday that`s are months and months away. Erin, it stresses me out.
RYAN: I can see that it stresses you out. You`ve been stressed out for the entire segment. I can see it.
MELBER: You`ve seen under my skin.
RYAN: I can see it. You`re just crawling. I think that -- I think that`s fair but I will counter you by saying that Halloween is the best holiday so it`s fine for me --
MELBER: It`s a great holiday. I`m thinking of going as a bot this year.
RYAN: Just yell at people in Russian?
MELBER: I don`t know. Just yell at Twitter, I don`t know, which I already do. I want to thank Asha, Maya, and Erin for joining our Fallback Friday. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MELBER: Bob Mueller runs the Russia investigation. He used to run the FBI, dealing with terrorism, corrupt politicians, and fraud. You may have heard of him but to many, we found out he`s a mystery.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s your name and where are you from?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m Karen Fury and I`m from Dallas, Texas.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My names is Carol Ducey and I`m from Hilton Head, South Carolina.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What if I told you, it`s this guy running the Russia investigation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Good for him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s the lawyer in charge of the Russia investigation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He should go home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What`s there to investigate?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m hoping he`ll have a chance before he gets fired.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: We`re going to learn a lot more about that person who we call the most powerful man in Washington on Monday. Yes, this Labor Day, we have a special new episode of THE BEAT at 6:00 p.m. about Mueller. "HARDBALL" starts now.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
END
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST: The whole contact took how long? How long was the meeting?
DONALD TRUMP, JR., SON OF DONALD TRUMP: About 20 minutes or so.
HANNITY: About 20 minutes. And Jared left after 5 or 10?
TRUMP JR.: Yes.
HANNITY: Like she said? And Paul Manafort was on his?
TRUMP JR.: On his phone.
HANNITY: The whole time?
TRUMP JR.: Pretty much.
HANNITY: Pretty much.
TRUMP JR.: It -listen, like I said --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP JR.: -- pretty apparent that this was not what we were in there talking about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: On his phone the whole time. Now, that may have been true and also terribly misleading. Trump Jr. suggesting that being on your phone would be a sign of disinterest, maybe playing around. We don`t know if it was Solitaire or texting or Candy Crush. This reporting today though is he was using his phone to take notes, not a sign of disinterest. I`m joined now by Malcolm Nance, the former counterterror intelligence officer, and back with me, Renato Mariotti. Renator, was he playing on his phone or was he taking notes?
MARIOTTI: Well, if the story that we heard from NBC News is correct, he was taking notes. And that`s really interesting because the conversation was supposedly about adopting orphans from Russia according to Trump junior. And I think really what that goes back to is how foolish Trump Jr. was to go and make public statements on his own, in his own voice on the Hannity Show and elsewhere. Now he`s got statements that will be used against him if he`s ever on the witness stand.
MELBER: Malcolm, Paul Manafort we now know was up to all of this in these meetings, aware of these contacts and then was out defending against them as a campaign leader, a chair, spokesperson and now you look at that and some of the language becomes more telling. For example, instead of just saying what the truth was, he would refer to our position about Russia. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL MANAFORT, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Mr. Trump said that his taxes are under audit and he will not be releasing them. It`s nothing to do with Russia. It`s nothing to do with any country other than the United States. And his normal tax auditing process. So, that issue will be dealt with when the audits are done.
NORAH O`DONNELL, CBS ANCHOR: So to be clear Mr. Trump has no financial relationships with any Russian oligarchs?
MANAFORT: That`s what he said. That`s what our position is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: That`s what he said. That`s what our position is. He doesn`t say that`s true.
MALCOLM NANCE, FORMER UNITED STATES NAVY SENIOR CHIEF PETTY OFFICER: No. You know what`s fascinating about this is, you know, in the intelligence community we have this thing called resistance techniques. And these are little dodges that you find that you can get away with answering a question by stating a fact but without telling the truth. And if you look at all the statements related to this and I`m sure you as a lawyer too understand that.
You can state a fact out there that, you know, this is what Mr. Trump said. That`s what our position is. Well, that`s your position but that isn`t actually a fact of law that`s come up before them. Did you have any relations with these -- with this foreign power? Interesting -- I also want to point out a little thing about the donations thing. You know, if Manafort was on his phone, he was probably keeping a form of minutes on there.
And to a certain extent, that reference to donations can only come out to one of two things. Either Natalia Veselnitskaya was actually talking about the intercepted information they claim they got from Hillary Clinton which involved donations or they were talking about giving you a donation. Neither one of them is good for Manafort or the Trump team.
MELBER: Right. It appears the actual word according to Ken Dilanian`s NBC reporting was kind of contribution to your point. Where were they headed? Renato, about Manafort, you wrote, you concluded he has significant criminal liability. How does that affect where the case goes?
MARIOTTI: Well, I think the cases to Manafort is -- it appears to be the furthest along to anyone. Whenever the FBI comes and executes a search warrant at your home, you know that you`re in very significant criminal jeopardy. You have to be taking it very seriously. It goes without saying, right? I mean, it literally means that a judge decided that there was probable cause to believe a crime occurred and that evidence of that crime was at your house.
So, Manafort is in a very tough spot and I think this only makes things more difficult for Paul Manafort because it just gives another front for him to be defending on. So, you know, there`s these potential disclosures that he made that were -- that could have been false. There`s, you know, obviously, you know, also now this Trump Tower meeting and who knows. The tax -- the tax liability that you talked about earlier could be related to him as well. We don`t know.
MELBER: Renato Mariotti, former Federal prosecutor, thanks for being here. Malcolm, stay with me. We`ve got that other story I mentioned. Russia still at it. New reporting on Kremlin-linked attacks on the U.S. Election system and public debate. And I`m going to show you the context for this disturbing video. This is a Utah nurse who was arrested screaming, dragged from a hospital when she declined to provide an illegal request for blood of a patient. The former chair of a police oversight agency joins me.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MELBER: Before we turn to our next story, I want to show you some live images coming into our news room now, 6:30 p.m. East Coast Time. 5:30 in Crosby, Texas where you see this fire raging. This is a chemical plant that was hurt and affected by Hurricane Harvey. We are told the petro chemicals in the labs and in the plant there. And you can see obviously a fire that is not anywhere near under control that is billowing a very heavy black smoke from the wide shot as we pull out.
And obviously authorities, we understand are in route trying to deal with it. We don`t have more information yet but I wanted to show you this. A story of obvious proportions related to both the hurricane and the risk faced by locals there. Crosby, Texas, 5:27 p.m. local time. We`re monitoring it and we`ll bring you updates here throughout the hour and throughout the evening on MSNBC as we learn what`s happening there. Obviously a dangerous scene unfolding in Crosby, Texas.
I want to turn now to this other story I`d mention. Developing news about how Vladmir Putin is continuing attacks on the United States election system and public debate. Bloomberg reporting today, pro-Russian cyberattackers are trying to undermine the U.S. political system. This is not a story about 2016. This is a story about now and in the future and the "For (INAUDIBLE) of more recent assaults, a preview of what could come in the midterms."
Trump meanwhile insisting Russia may not even be behind the 2016 hacks. The report showing Putin continues to infiltrate American debate. Bloomberg sites as an example, John McCain who was on Twitter after Trump`s comments about Charlottesville urging a more forceful condemnation and bigotry with hours. There was a coordinated counterattack pro-Russian bot cyborgs promoting accusations that it was McCain allied with neo-Nazis in the past.
For the story, we go to Bloomberg`s national security reporter, Nafeesa Syeed, who broke it. Do we have Nafeesa Syeed? We are in live T.V. and sometimes we see the wrong person. That`s Michael Daniel (INAUDIBLE) who is Barack Obama`s former cyber chief and a great guest but Nafeesa, we go to you first. Thanks for being here.
NAFEESA SYEED, NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER, BLOOMBERG: Thanks.
MELBER: What did you find here and what is the link back to Russia?
SYEED: Well, I spoke to a lot of researchers. This has become sort of an emerging field. So last year we heard a lot about Russian meddling but these researchers and some of these are recent efforts within this year that have started. They really go in and track what they`re seeing as what they called Russian bot and cyber activity. So some of these are automated accounts, some of them have some human element especially on Twitter. We`re also seeing these kinds of attacks moved to other sites like Facebook, YouTube --
1830
NAFEESA SYEED, BLOOMBERG NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: As what they call Russian bot and cyber activity. So some of these are automated accounts, some of them have human element especially on Twitter. We`re also seeing these kinds of attack move to other sites like Facebook, YouTube, LinkedIn. And so, what we`re seeing is whether it -- these -- whether we can say they`re actually directly from the Kremlin, some researchers say they are. At the least, we can say they`re what researchers call pro-Russian or Russia linked or Russian aligned and they tend to really promote certain narratives that seem to either favor Russia or favor Russian kinds of interests or what they call influence operations.
ARI MELBER, MSNBC HOST: So, to drill on that, how does it favor Russia to falsely accuse John McCain of having these links?
SYEED: Well, it`s way to just say, discredit someone who has been critical of Russia, for instance. And so, this way, what researchers tell me is what they`re seeing is that these kinds of efforts where they can take say, you know, opinions that are on the fringe of the internet and try to as much as possible gain traction over you know, sort of on social media so that it becomes part of mainstream narrative. And so, that`s part of what we saw that researchers tracked at the digital forensic research lab around John McCain. Within minutes, somehow, they were trying to create this narrative.
Even if it was based on truth, you know, Senator McCain had visited Ukraine and met with some leaders that they accuse of having neo-Nazi roots, but what we`re seeing then is how they`re taking that narrative and trying to push it to then question how can someone like John McCain condemn what President Trump`s reaction to Charlottesville. And that`s when this happened. That`s important to note as well, sort of banking on these very high profile events and shaping narratives around that.
MELBER: Well, and your reporting is such a key context because people could go online that day or that week and think they are looking at something that reflects some kind of American debate, whether they agree with it or not. And that actually is reflecting as you say these Russian linked attempts to do something that is totally unrelated. It`s just fascinating. Nafeesa Syeed, thanks for sharing your reporting with us.
SYEED: Thank you.
MELBER: I want to turn to this promise to this other news on Russia hacking. The New York Times reporting that in the 2016 election there were rampant problems in the state and local voting systems and they were, more widespread than previously thought, impacting voter registration, local databases and more. Michael Daniel who served as Cyber Security Coordinator in the Obama White House tells the Times in this news story, "We don`t know if any of the problems were an accident. The random problems you get with computer systems or whether it was a local hacker or get this, actual malfeasance by a sovereign nation state." With me now is Michael Daniel, and back with me Malcolm Nance.
And Michael, you got a preview a moment ago when we showed you in the earlier segment, you were saying something here, and I know a measured and careful way but something with big implications which is the months old talking point that 2016 hacking didn`t result in any change of outcome may be overstated and that there may be larger problems and how far hackers got in 2016.
MICHAEL DANIEL, CYBERSECURITY COORDINATOR UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA: So I would say that the -- I would still stand behind the statement that the outcome of the election was not affected by anything that the Russians did. But I would say that it takes a long time to do the forensic work to find out exactly how far any hackers may have gotten into the systems that may have been targeted during the 2016 election.
MELBER: And so -- I mean, again, the headline, the Time story goes deep and you`re in it but it seems to suggest that the actual way we do local elections may have been more affected or intruded than previously reported.
DANIEL: Well, certainly it shows the vulnerability of the systems that are spread across the country at the state and local level that definitely need to be shored up in the future as your previous story was talking about. It`s clear that the Russians and others will probably make similar attempts in the future and we need to be increasing the security of our electoral infrastructure.
MELBER: Malcolm, my observation is, it doesn`t seem like this is going to normal way of investigations when people say, we`ll see where the facts leave. There was a Russia I think to kind of calm people about all this. And now in drips and drabs at the local level when the forensics, as Michel says, having been even finished were hearing, actually some of these hackers linked to Russia may have gotten in deeper.
MALCOLM NANCE, TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, we heard about this story last year where we discovered that electoral rolls in several states had been -- had been probed by a foreign actor. Some subcontractors to other states have been probed by foreign intelligence agencies believed to be the Russian military intelligence, the GRU. You know, until I read that Times story this morning, I was part of that group that believed, hey, you know, the Russians didn`t manage to get down to the electoral process. President Obama warned them off of that. That story makes me wonder. There`s been no forensics done on this. No one has really looked backward to see and certainly, Homeland Security hasn`t. And this is a national infrastructure project because look, Russia has weaponized information and learned to effectively attack democracy with our own Democrat systems. It must be looked into.
MELBER: And Michael, briefly, is the Trump administration taking this seriously enough?
DANIEL: I can`t really speak for all the work that the Trump administration is doing but certainly the -- some of the officials they have in places such as Tom Bossard and Rob Joyce at the White House will take this very seriously.
MELBER: Michael, you`re making my head spin. You directed cyber for Obama. The President of the United States says, he can`t say whether he was behind this and you don`t know whether they`re taking it serious?
DANIEL: Well, I think that the individuals that they have in various places across the government do take this very seriously. And there are a lot of career staff at both the Department of Homeland Security --
MELBER: What about the President?
DANIEL: I can`t speak for how this President is treating this issue.
MELBER: I appreciate your service and I understand you`re measured. Malcolm Nance, Michael Daniel, thank you, both. Concerning stuff.
Ahead, is there a Republican revolt? McCain says, Donald Trump is poorly informed and it`s his call about what Congress is doing next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MELBER: Turning to politics. Next month could be even harder for Donald Trump than expected. Congress comes back to D.C. next week and some are in revolt. John McCain with a blistering message to Trump, saying we`re not his subordinates, we don`t answer to him. We must serve as a check on his power. And that Trump is poorly informed and could be impulsive." And that`s pressure from lawmakers. That`s before Trump, of course, moves forward on an expected decision on DACA, the program that provides place for children who came to this country -- who are brought to this country as children to stay in this country.
Also, pressure on a potential shut down, funding for Harvey and then this Hail Mary, tax reform. Meantime, the Washington Post reporting that Trump still calls his former Chief Strategist Steve Bannon from the personal phone when General Kelly is not around. With me on the politics, Governor Howard Dean and the Daily Beast Erin Gloria Ryan and Michael Tomasky. Governor, take your pick. What do you think?
HOWARD DEAN, FORMER VERMONT GOVERNOR: Two things. First, McCain`s a maverick so he doesn`t speak for anybody in the Senate besides himself for the possible exception of Lindsey Graham. See 00 let`s see if others say this. Second of all, however, McCain just got back from Arizona. My personal belief is that what`s going on in Arizona is putting Arizona in play for the Democrats in 2018 in the Senate race. And if DACA happens to be overturned, I can`t imagine how the Latino community is not going to vote about 90 percent Democratic and they`re going to come out. That is the single biggest issue and the single most unfair issue and the single most prosecutorial issue if you will. That`s going to motivate Hispanics in 2018.
ERIN GLORIA RYAN, THE DAILY BEAST SENIOR EDITOR: Well, I think this is John McCain way of saying, I like presidents who don`t alienate their own party. This was -- you know, talk is cheap though because John McCain on one hand for all of his kind of saber-rattling about Donald Trump in a lot is of ways has sort of fallen into line with the rest of the party. I think this kind of serves as a warning to Trump that he can`t act like he is the boss of them anymore, of course. But it also highlights the fact that during 2017, Trump has had no major legislative accomplishments.
MELBER: Nada.
RYAN: If he wants to have legislative accomplishments, he has to start playing nice with his own guys.
MELBER: Right. And Michael Tomasky, that goes to the old saying: nobody knew tax reform would be this hard.
MICHAEL TOMASKY, THE DAILY BEAST SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: One of my favorite old sayings. But I think we all did know tax reform was going to be this harder or all of us but one. Tax reform on major scale hasn`t happened Ari, as you know, since 1986. There`s a reason for that. It`s big, it`s complicated, there are a lot of moving parts. There are more -- well, there aren`t actually more lobbyists in Washington now than there were back then. I don`t think, but they`re spending two or three times the money that they were back then. It`s a very difficult thing to do. And I actually looked up today, thinking about coming on here tonight, how the vote went in 1986 on the tax reform bill, stunningly bipartisan. You know, majorities of Democrats and Republicans in both Houses voted for it. That`s something that would never ever, ever happen today.
MELBER: I mean, that`s -- yes.
TOMASKY: And Trump`s lack of engagement and his low approval rating both combined to make it that much harder.
MELBER: Right. That`s fascinating. You`re speaking to legislative strategy. There are some things that tend to happen on party lines. Historically, taxes require more. Governor Dean, I don`t know how much you listen to Jay Z but you know, he said it money talks, the whole word`s about to hear me out. And that`s true whenever you go at the tax code. The money talks, people get mad when they figure out whether you`re going to hit their pocketbook and paycheck, right? How hard is it to actually get bipartisan tax reform?
DEAN: Well, what they`ll -- what they`ll probably do is just pass tax reform and run the deficit up which interestingly the committee for responsible budget which is a more Republican leaning organization is very much against as you might suspect. But I think Michael is right. It`s almost impossible to do this with a margin of two votes in the Senate. And so, I just don`t see how they`re going to get this done and make the kinds of compromises. Not only is Trump obviously is incompetent President but you also got the most bitterly divided legislature that I`ve seen in my lifetime. I just - I don`t see how they do this.
MELBER: And Erin, there is an Obama effect here that even Donald Trump and Republican Congress are having trouble undoing some of the humanitarian or progressive things he`s done. Let me read you a quote about DACA. "These are kids who know no other country." Who said it? Is it a liberal, is it a progressive, is it an Obama official? It`s Paul Ryan today embracing an Obama rule because once it was put in place, they don`t want to undo it.
RYAN: Right. And you know, it would with one thing if Donald Trump had any political capital to spend on you know, undoing something that sounds so terrible to undo, but he doesn`t have any political capital to expend. He`s extremely unpopular. He`s unpopular to the point he`s alienated his own party. Like John McCain, who knows what he wanted to accomplish by writing this Op-Ed. But I sort of think that either way --
MELBER: I think it was a long tweet storm. It`s a very long tweet storm.
RYAN: Yes. He`s given -- it was this very long tweet storm. That`s what -- that`s the way the President would understand it. I think that it was - - you know, maybe just giving the President a middle finger was its own end. Maybe it wasn`t like that he really thought that anybody would happen. He just wanted Donald Trump to feel bad and that`s enough for them.
MELBER: Well, you know what they say about feelings?
RYAN: What do they say about feelings?
MELBER: They feel better when you let them out.
RYAN: (INAUDIBLE)
MELBER: It`s something they say. Governor Dean and Michael Tomasky, thank you, Erin stays. I want to turn to something else that is very important that we wanted to bring you on THE BEAT. This is new video that shows a very controversial arrest of a nurse in Salt Lake City. Let me explain, Police handcuffing and dragging her because she refused the police`s unlawful request for a patient`s blood. Now, first, she explains to police why she can`t release the patient`s blood without a warrant under the law and hospital policy. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The patient can`t consent. He`s told me repeatedly that he doesn`t have a warrant. And the patient is not under arrest. So I`m just trying to do what I`m supposed to do. That`s all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s the one that`s told me no.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, but sir, you`re making a huge mistake right now. Like, you`re making a huge mistake because you`re threatening a nurse.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. No, we`re done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Now that was the explanation provided. And you could hear in the background one hospital administrator saying are you really threatening a nurse. Here is what happened next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh please.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re done. You`re under arrest. We`re done.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. Somebody, help. Help me. Help! Stop!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re assaulting me! You`re assaulting me! Stop! I`ve done nothing wrong!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Salt Lake City`s Mayor has said this arrest is completely unacceptable. Police Chief saying he`s "alarmed and that there is an internal review." You should also know, under the law police may not take blood unless they have consent or a warrant. This officer did not have either but lashed out at the nurse in this apparently unlawful arrest. I want to bring back Maya Wiley who actually has recently finished her term there, here tenure as New York City`s Police Oversight Board Reviewer. You review civilian complaints. What do you think of what you see there?
MAYA WILEY, THE NEW SCHOOL SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT FOR SOCIAL JUSTICE: I thought it was shocking and shocking abuse of rights of a citizen by a police force and by police officers who actually had no regard for the constitution of the United States and probably no regard for their training and the patrol guides that are probably subject -- that are probably subject to.
MELBER: You see this is on video. This is with witnesses, this is with hospital security. Do you see this mind set in some, not all, but in some officers that any resistance of their request, in this case, what is apparently an unlawful request will not be allowed?
WILEY: I think we should make very clear that there are obviously a lot of police officers who abide by the law and who police in a way that is consistent with the law and the rights of citizens. This is certainly something though that happens, unfortunately, which is officers have so much of a sense of their own power that they literally get angry when they are not getting what they want and then they abuse their power.
MELBER: Right, and it`s supposed to be rule of law and not rule of anger. Maya, I want you to stay with me for our continuing coverage and we will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MELBER: It is not exactly been your normal August mood in the newsroom and a lot of news we`ve been covering but it is Friday on THE BEAT so it is time to fall back. It`s Fallback Friday, a segment some people, some people dislike and some people don`t even understand. The idea is that you need to fall back if you need to chill out, relax or even re-asses your poor choices this week. And we have a tremendous panel to discuss Asha Dahya from GirlTalkHQ, and here at the table, the Daily Beast Erin Gloria Ryan back with is Maya Wiley. Erin, who needs to fall back?
RYAN: Kid Rock needs to fall back. Kid Rock this week was accused of breaking campaign finance law by a watch dog group. Kid Rock responded (INAUDIBLE) with some body language telling them to F-off and to leave him the F alone, basically. And he was going to spend his holiday weekend working. you know, he was selling shirts, to be fair, that said Kid Rock for Senate which led some people to believe that Kid Rock might be running for Senate.
MELBER: Kid Rock the musician.
RYAN: Right. Kid Rock the musician and an adult man, not a kid, that he would -- he would be running for Senate. And actually, what`s really funny is the watch dog organization that pointed out he might be violating campaign finance laws is helmed by a man Paul S. Ryan. Not the Paul Ryan from Washington, different one. I love that the last name Ryan is going everywhere.
WILEY: Yes.
MELBER: Who needs to fall back Maya?
WILEY: Ivanka needs to fall back because she`s knocking women down by ignoring the (INAUDIBLE) and wanting to reverse the Obama era rule that`s going to require companies, large companies to report on their pay based on gender and race and ethnicity.
MELBER: I thought that was her thing though.
WILEY: Apparently women who work, maybe don`t have to work as hard as other women who work and therefore don`t care.
MELBER: Asha, who needs to fall back?
ASHA DAHYA, EDITOR IN CHIEF, GIRLTALKHQ: Well, it`s going to have to be L`Oreal U.K. Earlier this week, they made a huge announcement where they signed they signed their first openly transgender model Munroe Bergdorf which is a huge deal. Munroe is a trans woman of color and this is an industry which doesn`t have a lot diversity, so the big deal. However, a couple days later, the Daily Mail published some comments that Munroe had written in the aftermath of the Charlottesville rally. Understandably, she was upset by the racism and called out white privilege," yes, all white people," are the inheritance of racism throughout the years. And because of this, many people were outraged.
Subsequently, L`Oreal U.K. decided to part ways with her saying, "listen, we`re all about championing diversity and inclusion but what Munroe said does not represent our values. So what needs to fall back right now is L`Oreal U.K. and companies and big brands like them who say they want to champion diversity and inclusion but then claim that their values are --
MELBER: Right, but not even -- yes, not diversity of ideas if --
DAHYA: Not at all.
MELBER: -- if she can`t have her own opinions.
All right, I`ve got one. Who needs to fall back? I`m going to put this on the screen. If you look at this, Target has released its Halloween collection in August. Halloween in August. My vote is retailers need to fall back from stuffing us with their sales pitches for holiday that`s are months and months away. Erin, it stresses me out.
RYAN: I can see that it stresses you out. You`ve been stressed out for the entire segment. I can see it.
MELBER: You`ve seen under my skin.
RYAN: I can see it. You`re just crawling. I think that -- I think that`s fair but I will counter you by saying that Halloween is the best holiday so it`s fine for me --
MELBER: It`s a great holiday. I`m thinking of going as a bot this year.
RYAN: Just yell at people in Russian?
MELBER: I don`t know. Just yell at Twitter, I don`t know, which I already do. I want to thank Asha, Maya, and Erin for joining our Fallback Friday. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MELBER: Bob Mueller runs the Russia investigation. He used to run the FBI, dealing with terrorism, corrupt politicians, and fraud. You may have heard of him but to many, we found out he`s a mystery.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s your name and where are you from?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m Karen Fury and I`m from Dallas, Texas.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My names is Carol Ducey and I`m from Hilton Head, South Carolina.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What if I told you, it`s this guy running the Russia investigation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Good for him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s the lawyer in charge of the Russia investigation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He should go home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What`s there to investigate?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m hoping he`ll have a chance before he gets fired.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: We`re going to learn a lot more about that person who we call the most powerful man in Washington on Monday. Yes, this Labor Day, we have a special new episode of THE BEAT at 6:00 p.m. about Mueller. "HARDBALL" starts now.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
END
Copy: Content and programming copyright 2017 MSNBC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2017 ASC Services II Media, LLC. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of ASC Services II Media, LLC. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.