Hardball with Chris Matthews, Transcript 10/2/17 Las Vegas shooting

Candice DeLong, Shawn Henry, Darrin Porcher, Bryan Hopkins, Dina Titus, David Shepherd, Darrin Porcher, Shawn Henry, Buzz Brainard, Brian Claypool

Date: October 2, 2017
Guest: Candice DeLong, Shawn Henry, Darrin Porcher, Bryan Hopkins, Dina
Titus, David Shepherd, Darrin Porcher, Shawn Henry, Buzz Brainard, Brian

CHRIS MATTHEWS, HOST: There was the Pulse nightclub in Orlando, where 49
people were killed, Virginia Tech, where 32 were, Sandy Hook Elementary
school, where it was 27 people, including 20 children. Now it`s Las Vegas,
with 59 shot and killed. The list of mass shootings, as we know, is
longer. A church meeting in Charleston, a community college in Roseburg,
Oregon, a high school in Colorado, an office party in San Bernardino, at
the Navy yard here in Washington, a movie theater in Colorado, at Fort
Hood, Texas, and even at a congressional baseball practice over in
Virginia. We catalog each by the name of a city. And now there is Las

Good evening. I`m Chris Matthews in Washington. The casualty numbers are
staggering, at least 59 people killed, more than 500 injured out there.
It`s the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history. For thousands of
concertgoers last night in Las Vegas, it was a night of horror.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shots fired from Mandalay Bay. There`s many people
down stage left. Just be advised.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have multiple casualties, GSW (ph) (INAUDIBLE)
multiple casualties!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s bullets ricocheting, like, down by the bottom
of our feet because we all got on the floor crawling out, rushing because
everybody`s rushing out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We hid behind the building, and we just could hear
hundreds of rounds going off. And then about 10 minutes later, the police
came and then blocked off all the streets. And just very overwhelming and
– and very scary.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My friend that was standing next to me got shot three
times. So he went down.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Once I came out of the event, there were a lot of
people just bleeding everywhere. It was just – didn`t know where the
blood was coming from, didn`t know whose blood it was.


MATTHEWS: Well, the suspect in last night`s rampage is 64-year-old retiree
Stephen Paddock. His brother today said he had no mental illness. Law
enforcement said he was not in their radar prior to last night.

Well, Paddock checked into the Mandalay Bay Hotel in Las Vegas on the Strip
last Thursday. His hotel room looked out on a music festival that
attracted more than 22,000 people. Then last night, he used a hammer-like
device to crack open his windows and suddenly opened fire.

At 10:08 PM local time, police responded to the reports of the shooting.
By the time they located and stormed his hotel room more than one hour
later, Paddock had killed himself. Police say they found 16 guns in the
room. The question everyone is asking today, why.

I`m joined by NBC News senior national correspondent Chris Jansing, who`s
out in Las Vegas. Chris, thank you. You`ve been covering it all day. And
I guess tell us what you can now for the evening viewer about this tragedy
that happened just about 24 hours ago.

CHRIS JANSING, NBC CORRESPONDENT: Well, first of all, the numbers are
absolutely staggering when you consider 59 people killed. Officials say
that number could rise. When you have 527 people with a wide range of
injuries, many of them gunshot wounds, at least 12 of them in critical
condition at the trauma unit at the level 1 trauma hospital here in Vegas.

The chaos that ensued, people not knowing where the bullets were coming
from, and the question as the sun came up, why. No better answers. We
learned more about the person himself, Stephen Paddock. His brother said
he was someone who was successful. That doesn`t fit. He didn`t have a
terror motive, as we saw apparently in San Bernardino. He didn`t have a
political motive, which was what we saw most recently, Chris, in Virginia
with the shooting of Steve Scalise. Wasn`t an unhappy student, as we saw
at Columbine and Virginia Tech.

This is a 64-year-old guy who was in a relationship, living in a retirement
community. And he didn`t seem to have any mental health history, as we saw
in Tucson when Gabby Giffords was shot. In fact, everyone that has been
very close to him, like his brother, has said that they are absolutely
flabbergasted. Just a couple of weeks ago, he called and checked on his
mom, who had lost power during Hurricane Irma.

But he did have an arsenal on the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay, which is
right behind where I am standing here. As you said, Chris, he broke out
those windows and opened fire.

The stories of some of the 22,000 people who were in that crowd are
absolutely harrowing, talking about running for their lives, talking about
not knowing where those bullets were coming from, hiding under trucks,
waiting for moments when he would apparently stop and reload, and they
would take off again, one person describing the gunfire as absolutely

And then in a search of his home, which is in Mesquite, 18 additional
firearms, but also several thousand rounds of ammunition and explosives.
We don`t know why, but clearly, he was ready. He was somebody, Chris, who
had the financial capability of preparing these arsenals and came here
clearly to inflict maximum damage.

Even though that is clearly the case, what we have also seen is remarkable,
the outpouring from the community, people waiting in line five, six, seven
hours to give blood, people donating hundreds of thousands of dollars, and
local officials in that press conference that just ended, Chris, saying
that this is a resilient community and this is a community that will come
together. But clearly, still waiting for answers, Chris.

MATTHEWS: Thank you so much, NBC`s Chris Jansing in Las Vegas. NBC News
justice correspondent Pete Williams joins us right now. Pete, tell what`s
we know about Stephen Paddock.

PETE WILLIAMS, NBC CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know a fair amount about him,
but we don`t know the answer to the big question, which is why did he want
to come it that hotel and commit mass murder? We know that he lived for a
time in Florida. He lived in Texas. He lived in Nevada, in Mesquite,
which is about 80 miles away. He had a couple of properties in the state.

His brother describes him as a multi-millionaire, said that he was an
accountant, worked for a while in the 1980s for a predecessor company of
Lockheed Martin as an accountant, or as an internal auditor, and then got
more and more interested in real estate, managed some properties with his
brother in Texas, and then got more into real estate development. He liked
to gamble. He had spent – he`s been a pretty high roller in these Las
Vegas casinos, placing tens of thousands of dollars worth of bets in recent

But why he did this, they simply have no clue. They know he`s been
acquiring weapons over the past several mouths. He`s bought at gun stores
in Nevada, possibly outside the state, as well. That part of Nevada he is
from, Mesquite, is right on the border. He could go to other states to try
to buy weapons and have them sent back to the gun dealers in Nevada to do
it legally.

But the big question here is how did he acquire automatic weapons. You`ve
heard the sounds on the videos of these rapid shots. Machine guns are
illegal in the U.S., but it`s possible to buy conventional semiautomatic
weapons, meaning they fire every time you pull the trigger but just one
round, and convert them. But that conversion process can make the weapons

So the authorities are trying to figure out how he managed to get his hands
on these automatic weapons. He had some of those in the room. He had
sniper rifles with scopes. So he clearly intended to have a great deal of

They say when he checked into the hotel last Thursday, he had all this
arsenal with him in 10 suitcases, so 10 pieces of baggage. So nobody would
have seen, obviously, that he was carrying in weapons to the hotel, Chris.

And they say that while he was there Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday,
and then into today, he didn`t – he didn`t have them out in plain view,
that the hotel housekeeping staff had been in and out of his room and never
noticed anything out of line.

MATTHEWS: Well, that`s a horrific reality you describe. What about his
father being on the – number one – the 10 Most Wanted List? What do you
make of that? I don`t believe in sort of inherited psychopathy, but what do
you make of it?

WILLIAMS: Well, it`s certainly something that they want to look at. His
father, Benjamin Hoskins Paddock, was arrested for robbing banks in Phoenix
in 1960. And then in 1968, while he was serving a 20-year sentence for the
conviction on that, he escaped. And that`s what you`re looking at now is
his wanted poster from the FBI back in `68.

Then they described him on that poster, Chris, down there at the bottom
under where it says, “Caution,” as somebody who was diagnosed as
psychopathic and has suicidal tendencies. And whether it means anything or
not, after he was – escaped – rather, after he robbed the bank in
Phoenix, he was arrested in Las Vegas.


WILLIAMS: So the Paddockses have some connection to Las Vegas. They`ve
been in and out of that area. They lived in Arizona and Nevada. So this
is a part of the country that he`s comfortable with.

But what the father`s background has anything to do with his current frame
of mind, we just have no way of knowing because, Chris, none of the usual
indicators here, none of the electronic breadcrumbs seem to be in place, no
social media, no note left behind, no note left behind, no at this point
obvious Internet conversations that we know of, none of these little
indicators that we tend to have found by this many hours after these past

MATTHEWS: Wow. Great reporting, Pete. We`re going to find out more as
the days go on, I`m sure.

I`m joined right now by Mick Akers, a reporter with “The Las Vegas Sun.”
You know, I have to tell you that that must be something of a lead, Mick,
the fact that the father was on the most Wanted List and was listed in the
Wanted poster as psychopathic.

MICK AKERS, “LAS VEGAS SUN”: Oh, yes, definitely. Although he has no
background, really. It just, you know, adds a little something there.

MATTHEWS: Well, what do you make of – what do you know right now about
this witnesses? What witnesses do we have on the 32nd floor where he was
shooting from?

AKERS: Yes, I spoke with one gentleman from Atlanta. He said he was about
five rooms away. He was asleep. About between 10:00 and 10:15, he said,
he was awoken by hundreds of rounds of shots. And he could smell the
gunpowder. He immediately called the front desk. They said they`re aware
of an active shooter situation and to remain in his room. So he said he
hit the ground and just waited it out. And then eventually, metro police
came up and escorted him out of his room and down the 32 floors.

MATTHEWS: Well, let`s get down the floors to this concert area. What do
you know that you can tell us about the casualties in this sort of random,
1,200 feet away machine gunning of a crowd, where he`s just aiming the gun
into the crowd and it`s like a horrible lottery for those people.

AKERS: Yes. It just seemed like he was kind of playing a game. He would
wait for them to get up and then start shooting. And once they hit the
ground, he would stop, and then they`d get up again and then he would start
shooting again. So a lot of people were just jumping up and down and –
and this one brother and sister I spoke with – the sister was 30 years old
and he was 21. And every time they jumped, she would jump on him and cover
him because she wanted to take the bullet for him because she had he had a
longer life to live and he had more aspirations. So she`d gladly take the
bullet for him.

MATTHEWS: Well, the shooter had a tripod, or come (ph) some tripods. He
also had a scope. Was he – you`re telling me that he was a sniper, that
he could actually shoot personal targets from that distance?

AKERS: I`m not sure if he was able to do that. I know he was shooting at
will. So I`m sure with the 22,000 people there in attendance, it wasn`t
that hard for him to hit people even from that distance.

MATTHEWS: Thanks so much, Mick Akers, for joining us.

I`m joined right now by Bryan Hopkins. He`s a musician who was at last
night`s concert. Bryan, thank you. Anyway, shortly after the shooting
started, Hopkins and others ran for cover, eventually hiding in a large
freezer on the concert grounds. Bryan, tell us about your experience last

BRYAN HOPKINS, EYEWITNESS: It was – it was kind of crazy because when it
happened, I wasn`t sure what was going on. And we were right in front,
near the front of the stage. And I heard bang, bang, bang, bang, bang,
bang, bang, bang, bang. And then when it really lit (ph), people started

And I grabbed a couple of people, a couple of girls right in front of me
and my best friend, took off and got trampled. He got up and started
running. And I took these people around the back side because I was back
stage, so I knew how to get there. And I ran down a wall, down the wall.
And you could just hear bang, bang, bang, bang, bang happening. And you
could hear it banging off the rooftop behind me and hitting around us.

So I – I don`t know how – I remembered there was an opening where the
entrance was to the right. And we ran into a fence. And I knew I could
get over, but I couldn`t get all the people that were screaming and –
over. So I see this cooler. And when I opened it up, one of my friends
was inside. And we just started throwing people inside. It was about five
feet off the ground. And it was an actual freezer. And we locked
ourselves in there. And we could hear – we could hear the firing.

And it was so cold inside. And the two young ladies that I was helping,
they were amazing because they were calming down the one person and the guy
who was throwing his fingers in front of the camera was banging on the
walls. And we were trying to calm him down.

And then I got up to open up the door, and there was more firing. So we
shut the door. And I looked at my friend across the way. And I said,
Everything is going to be OK. And he shook his head, like, It`s not. So
we waited a couple minutes.

And I thought to myself, we`re not going to die in here. And so I opened
up the – he got up with me. We opened up the door. And someone had put a
ramp up along the fence. And one guy jumped out. Another guy jumps. And
I asked the guy, the second guy to wait. And I jumped down and I started
helping the ladies get up over the fence until everyone was just – was
trying to get over. And we were helping until the last two. And they were
the two that I helped. They stayed with me, and I couldn`t get them over.
So I turned to Ron. And a police officer runs at me and screams, This way!
This way! And I remember he`s sweating and he`s – he was just shaken up.

But as soon as I get past him, he starts running to where all the noise is
coming from, where all the bad is happening. He runs to it. And I`ll
never forget it because then we were running down, and there was a body and
body and another body. And the girls start to panic and they started –
one of them started crying and wanted to call her dad. And I just said,
Keep running.

And then we see a gentleman with a hole in his belly and his friends trying
to bring him to life. And I started shaking, but it was just, like, Keep
moving, keep moving. And we run across the street. And there are people
barricaded behind a car. And the guy in the passenger seat was shot. And
so I just told everybody run to the dark. Just run. And people were
following me.

And we ran as far as we could run, but it was still not out of reach. It
was only, like, 50 yards. And two gentlemen on another side pull a gate so
we can get me through and I could pull the gate open so everyone could get
through this gate with us and start running to Hooters.

It was terrifying, and I don`t – I remember being calm during the whole
thing. And as soon as I got home, I broke down because I don`t – I should
have – you know, part of me, like, Oh, that fence, I can over that fence.
I can get out of here now. And I ended up jumping in a cooler with
everybody to try and keep them calm, but I didn`t know if there were
shooters running around shooting, and trying to get people quiet. I had no
idea. And I lost my best friend. And I didn`t know where he was. So I
just stayed with these people.

MATTHEWS: Sir, I don`t know you, but you have a good heart and you`ve got
great instincts for saving people. Thank you so much, Bryan Hopkins, for
that incredible narration of the horror last night.

HOPKINS: Thank you.

MATTHEWS: Joining us right now the Nevada U.S. Congresswoman Dina Titus.
Thank you – joins us from Las Vegas. I`ve been watching you,
Congresswoman. You know, what I hear is automatic weaponry. I heard a
machine gun. And I heard it relentless. So it`s a lot of clips in it, a
lot of bananas, as we say, just kept firing and firing and firing.

This guy goes into a hotel room with over a dozen weapons. What does it
tell you about the state of Las Vegas and the law in Las Vegas? What
should it be? What have we got here?

REP. DINA TITUS (D), NEVADA: Well, I have to commend law enforcement here
in Las Vegas, along with first responders and with the private security at
Mandalay Bay. I don`t know how you could have prevented this. They are
looking at now Las Vegas being more of a hard target than a soft target to
see how we can improve security.

But if you look at what all they did, they saved lives, as you heard Mr.
Hopkins say, running into the area that was full of people who were being

MATTHEWS: Well, what do you make of the elements at work here? I don`t
want to make this into a crusade on a night of horror where we should just
sort of grieve and accept reality for a while. But the reality is this guy
goes into a hotel room with all these weapons, all these rounds of
ammunition, with tripods and scopes, everything, with the clear intention
to use them. He wasn`t going to carry them home with him. Is there
anything we can do about stopping the act, this kind of act?

TITUS: Well, you`ve got to remember, these were all in suitcases. He was
staying for several days. He was in a suite. The housekeeping staff had
been in and out and not seen anything out of the way because nothing was
visible. What do you do to check people`s suitcases when they come in?
That`s something to look at.

But I can tell you, we don`t want to make it political on this day of
mourning, as you said. Our office is trying to be of service and of
solace. But I have stood for one too many times for a moment of silence on
the floor of the House.

MATTHEWS: I just wonder about picking up at least suitcases with guns in
them. I`d notice they were extra heavy. Anyway, thank you. I like your
patience with us tonight and your judgment. We`ll get to this debate later
– U.S. Congresswoman Dina Titus of Las Vegas.

Still ahead, new details about the gunman himself, who he was, and what we
know about his motive. Boy, that`s the question of the night, motive for
last night`s horror. Those people were all alive this time yesterday. In
fact, this time, they were all alive and never expected this horror. They
were going out to a concert, and this guy ended their lives. This one guy
did it. We`ve got to find out why.

Our coverage continues after this.


MATTHEWS: We`re learning more about the suspect in last night`s mass

Sixty-four-year-old Stephen Craig Paddock had been gambling significant
amounts of money in Vegas` casinos over the past few weeks.

Earlier today, our NBC station in Orlando caught up with the suspect`s
brother. Here is what he said.


ERIC PADDOCK, BROTHER OF SHOOTER: Our condolences to everyone. We just
don`t understand. It`s like I said. An asteroid just fell out of the sky.
And we have no reason, rhyme, rationale, excuse.

There is just nothing. I mean, he has no criminal record. He has nothing,
nothing, nothing.


MATTHEWS: NBC News correspondent Catie Beck joins us now from Mesquite,
Nevada, near the suspect`s home.

Katie, thank you.

What can we find out from his house?

CATIE BECK, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Chris, we are actually in his
community, which is a sleepy retirement community in the desert.

It`s about 80 miles from Las Vegas. This is an upscale neighborhood, where
people largely just come to relax. That`s where his brother thought he was
coming to do when Stephen Paddock moved in here in 2015.

What we have witnessed today is basically police executing a search warrant
on his home, looking for any type of evidence, any type of clue that could
solve the mystery behind the motive. Why did he do it? What was the
motivation? And what lies in that house that could potentially solve that
for them?

They have been in there throughout the day, trying to find anything that
would give them those answers.

Late this afternoon, they finally wrapped up. And when they did come out,
we learn they`d had left with 18 firearms, several thousand rounds of
ammunition and explosive devices, among other things.

They weren`t giving us exact details on the other items that were taken
out. We imagine they did some forensics on his computers, any type of
communications that was on any devices within that home. But we are told
that they have completed the execution of that search warrant. And now
they`re going sift through that evidence and see if there is a motive in
there somewhere – Chris.

MATTHEWS: You mean the 18 weapons, in addition to that – almost that
amount in the hotel room? Is that right?

BECK: Correct.

And we have also learned independently that – that is correct. We have
also learned independently that Paddock bought several firearms from a gun
store just two miles down the road from here. That store owner told us
that the background checks were completed when he purchased those firearms,
and he didn`t see anything in Paddock that would strike him as unfit to own
a gun.

MATTHEWS: Well, AR-15s.

Anyway, thank you, NBC`s Catie Beck in Mesquite, Nevada.

It`s been less than 24 hours since America woke to the news that the gunman
callously opened fire on thousands of people at a country music concert.
There`s the scene there.

In the aftermath, as we grapple with this act, the big question is, why did
this guy do it?


QUESTION: Do you have any kind of motives you could be looking at, at this

into the mind of a psychopath at this point.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a classic WMD. This is a weapon and a man of
mass destruction.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a crazed lunatic full of hate. We don`t know
much about his background.


MATTHEWS: Well, statistics, we`re told, tell us, show that the Vegas
gunman, he is 64 years old, was twice the age of the average mass shooter,
whatever good that tells us.

In an interview with reporters, his brother Eric said that his brother was
not a normal guy and frequently played high-stakes video poker. We`re
getting kind of a disconnect there, not a normal guy and then never been
any trouble. Well, we will see how that fixes together.

For more on what we could have – what could have motivated him, I`m joined
right now by Clint Van Zandt, former FBI agent and MSNBC contributor, also
Candice DeLong, former FBI profiler and psychiatric nurse.

Clint and Candice, what do you make of those combined accounts from the
brother, one, he is just a law-abiding guy, never broke any rules, to the
other, but he is not quite normal? What? What do we – how does that
sound to you?


CLINT VAN ZANDT, MSNBC ANALYST: Well, to me, this guy is really an
anomaly, Chris.

So far, we don`t have any of the indicators that we see in the past. We
don`t see money. We don`t see health issues. We don`t know about
girlfriends. We know he is older than the average age. We know he lived
in a retirement, where he should have been drinking beer and watching
baseball, instead of accumulating 35 weapons.

And ammonium nitrate? All you have to do is mix fuel oil, and you have got
Oklahoma City. So, whether this is two personalities, the one he showed
his family and the rest of the world, and one he kept hidden, that`s still
something we have to learn.

MATTHEWS: Candice, what do you make of the father, the father being on the
most wanted list and described in the wanted posters as psychotic?

CANDICE DELONG, FORMER FBI PROFILER: Well, he was described as
psychopathic, which is different. Basically, it`s a personality disorder
where someone just lacks empathy. They never feel guilt or remorse for
anything they do, which makes it easy for them to commit crimes and become
a criminal.

It`s my understanding the father tried to run down a cop, which is why he
was on the 10 most wanted list.


DELONG: It is – it does make me wonder.

That happened in 1968 – and the offender, the shooter in Las Vegas was, I
think, born in 1954, `55 – what his home life was like. He is being
raised by a criminal. We don`t know all that much yet.

In regards to the brother`s contrary statements, Chris, it`s rare for
families to come forward after something like this and say, I knew
something like this was going to happen, even if they did.

MATTHEWS: Boy, that`s intelligent.

Let me get back to Clint on that.

What do you think? Does that sound right? Can – it sounds right to me.
You don`t want to incriminate yourself by saying, I knew the guy was
heading for trouble.

VAN ZANDT: Well, you know, Ted Kaczynski`s brother raised his hand and
said, I think there is a problem with my brother.

When I was an FBI agent, I sought his father. His father was a top 10 most
wanted fugitive. And we were looking for the guy in the `70s. So, when I
heard that name, there was a distant bell.

But, again, I don`t know that – you made the comment earlier. I don`t
know if there is a connection there. We don`t know how much influence the
father had over him. There`s a lot of things – Chris, there is so much we
don`t know and so much we need to know.

But we got three things. We got to deal with the psychology of shooters,
how to understand their motivation and get in front of them, instead of
behind them. We have to limit their access to guns. And we have to
develop technology that`s going help law enforcement react faster.

It took an hour and five minutes. And the cops did the very best job the
world can do. It still took them an hour and five minutes. Chris, what,
for example, if they had a remote-control plane, a little handheld robot
that you throw up in the air? It goes up to the 32nd floor and it says,
gee, there the guy is.

We need to get ahead of these guys…


VAN ZANDT: … in technology, in thinking, in psychology. We can`t be
behind them all this time.

MATTHEWS: Candice, what do you make of the – I`m not calling this guy
MacGyver or anything like that, to make light of it.

But he did have the capacity to go out and get the magazines. He had all
the firepower. He had the scope. He had the tripod. He knew how to break
open a window. He knew he would to – hotels don`t have open windows
anymore. Office buildings don`t either.

He seemed to have the whole thing scoped out intelligently. And if he
wanted to commit mass mayhem, he did it.

So, in terms of his effectiveness, does that tell you anything about his
psychology, that he has got a competence that is frightening to go with his
bad psychology?

DELONG: Well, it tells me something about his state of mind.

For example, let`s compare him to James Holmes, the young Colorado –
University of Colorado student that went into the heater in Aurora.


DELONG: It turns out he was seriously mentally ill, as bad as it gets,
psychotic, hearing voices, delusional.

And he did a lot of planning as well. But it certainly wasn`t on the level
that the Las Vegas shooter`s planning was. One of the things that strikes
me about what happened in Las Vegas is that this person, for 72 hours at
least, was able to plan things out, not apparently jump ahead.

Maybe he was waiting for Sunday night, because that was the big event.
That was the end of the concert. The headliner was playing. That tells me
he probably was not hearing voices, was not delusional.


DELONG: There is a famous, or a notorious, shooting back the `60s at the
University of Texas.


DELONG: Charles Whitman went up to the clock tower, and one by one killed
13 people, before he was killed by a cop.

And it turns out the autopsy revealed that he had an undiagnosed brain
tumor. Things like that, brain tumors – we know what chronic
encephalopathy can do. There may be something turn up in his physical and
mental health that will help explain this madness.

MATTHEWS: Back then, it was a rarity, Candice. Now it`s not anymore.

Thank you.

Mass shooting.

Clint Van Zandt, as always, sir.

Candice DeLong.

Coming up: The swift response by law enforcement is being credited with
saving many lives last night. We`re going look at the police work that
went into finding the shooter. That`s also a detective story.

Our coverage continues after this.


MATTHEWS: Welcome back to HARDBALL and our coverage of the deadly shooting
in Las Vegas last night.

Well, the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police were quick to mobilize amid reports
of the shooting last night. The challenge was determining exactly where
the shots were coming from.

A police scanner captured the response among law enforcement officials as
they tried to locate the shooter.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming from upstairs in the Mandalay Bay! Upstairs in
the Mandalay Bay, halfway up! I have seen the shots coming from Mandalay
Bay halfway up!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have an active shooter. We have an active shooter
inside the whereabouts!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m going to form a strike team, Mandalay Bay and the
boulevard. I need five officers on me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Be advised it is automatic fire, fully automatic fire
from an elevated position. Take cover.


MATTHEWS: Fully automatic fire. Everyone is saying that now.

Law enforcement made their way to the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay
resort, closing in on the room where gunman Stephen Paddock had massacred
his victims from over 1,000 feet away. Let`s listen to the moment they
breached the door with explosives.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re going to sit on the suspect`s door. I need
everybody in that hallway to be aware of it and get back.

We need to pop this and see if we get any type of response from this guy,
see if he`s in here, or he`s actually moved somewhere else.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All units on the 32nd floor, SWAT has explosive
breach. Everyone in the hallway needs to move back. All units, move back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breach, breach, breach.



MATTHEWS: That was the explosion opening the door on the 32nd floor to
where the shooter was shooting from.

According to Sheriff Joseph Lombardo, authorities believe Paddock killed
himself before his room was breached.

He says 16 guns were found inside and chemicals commonly used in explosives
were found in his car. Eighteen additional firearms and explosives were
also found at his home in Mesquite.

I`m joined right now by Shawn Henry, former executive assistant director of
the FBI, and Darrin Porcher, a retired lieutenant from the New York Police
Department. And David Shepherd served 24 years in the FBI and is the
former executive director of security for the Venetian Resort Hotel and

Darrin, you start.

I want to talk about the problem with these very high-rise hotels and the
difficult in this case of locating the shooter.

Your thoughts?

difficult and arduous task when you have a high-rise.

But one of the things that alerted law enforcement to the position of the
suspect was the smoke detector. He shot – he fired so many rounds while
he was in the room on the 32nd floor, the smoke detectors ignited.

And that`s what triggered the response to the 32nd floor. But whenever
you`re trying to pursue a suspect in a high-rise – and I take into
consideration a place like New York City – it`s always a very arduous

Oftentimes, you may not want to use the elevators. You may want to use the
stairs to go up. But, once again, you need to be in great shape to get up
32 flights of stairs to encounter that assailant in that room.

MATTHEWS: Why wouldn`t you want to use the elevator?

PORCHER: Because a host of things.

The assailant can actually stop the elevator himself. And you don`t want
something like that to occur. Take into consideration whenever there is a
fire. You never use the elevator, fear of a malfunction with that

And the same premise holds true with law enforcement responding to an
assailant in a place like this.

MATTHEWS: Shawn Henry, I want to ask you about this use of the fact that a
smoke alarm was the indicator of which room was the shooter`s room.

And that means, it seems to me, if you want to follow that out, if they
didn`t have the smoke alarm, he would have kept shooting, because they
wouldn`t have known where to find the guy for a while.

they eventually would have found him.

MATTHEWS: Eventually.

HENRY: There were some reports from – from some of the neighboring guests
about loud noises that were coming out. The officers that were out in the
venue who were looking up and were reporting where they were seeing bright
lights, and then, from there, you count up and you count over, and you can
start to triangulate on what the shooter`s position was.

I mean, law enforcement in this case, Chris, were very, very active in
saving people, and getting them off to a safe place, as well as identifying
where the shooter was, so that tactical team could get up, make that
explosive breach, get into that – into that room, and to eliminate or
neutralize the threat.

MATTHEWS: What do you make of a guy having a – he obviously modified his
semiautomatic. He turned into it a machine gun, by all the reports.

You can hear the rat-tat-tat. You could hear the sound of an automatic
weapon. And then he knew he could shoot 1,200 feet away, basically, what,
four football fields away, four football fields away with some accuracy.

Was that the elevation that he wanted? He got the right room he wanted on
the corner, which was the closest to the concert area. So much thought and
calculation went into this thing, it seems to me.

Your thoughts?

HENRY: He absolutely had a strategic position. And the elevation provided
him with that distinct advantage. I don`t think there is anything to him
in terms of marksmanship. I think he was trying to put as many rounds
possible down range to try and inflict as much harm as he could.

Those .223 rounds travel at a high velocity, and they do travel for a very
long distance. I think he was trying to put as much lead down into that
space to try and kill as many people as possible. And he certainly did
that, Chris.

MATTHEWS: David, tell us about Vegas and how this fits with your
experience out there with security for these hotels. Because here you got
protect people from somebody in the hotel. This isn`t the usual guy
stealing somebody`s diamonds. This is a guy out there with automatic
weapon effectively shooting out the window and knowing that he could break
the window with a hammer, with whatever he used, a hammer-like object,
whatever he had. This guy had it figured.

Well, he planned well from the beginning. This is something that a lot of
the active shooters do. And what you`re looking at is a person that wanted
to do that.

He planned. He looked for closest area. He planned it all out as much as
he could.

The security chiefs, we deal really close with the metropolitan police. We
do a lot of training with them. We discuss different scenarios. We do the
same thing for the Southern Nevada Counterterrorism Fusion Center to look
at different type of events. And it`s constantly going on.

MATTHEWS: Is there a lot of despondency out there about losing? I`m sure
there, because Vegas was built on people losing, obviously, not winning.
And I thought – everybody keeps talking back east here about how tens of
thousands of dollars he lost in the last several days.

My hunch is he brought those guns with him to do something with those guns.
He didn`t just somehow conjure up guns after he lost a few days at the
gaming table.

planned attack. He checked in on the 28th. And so, he had some time to
coordinate his assault –


PORCHER: – or his offensive against these individuals.

But just going back to what you mentioned in terms of the aim, it was like
shooting ducks in a bow. We have 22,000 people right in front of him.
It`s the equivalent of throwing a bowl into the ocean.

Unfortunately, when you look at the weaponry that he used in this, it kind
of remind me, I`m an ex-army officer. And it reminded me of my training on
the firing line. It was either a belt fed or a weapon that had a drum
magazine, because there were numerous rounds that came in continuous
succession. We only had three breaks.


PORCHER: We had hundreds of rounds that were fired at these individuals.
So there was no marksmanship deployed here.

MATTHEWS: Darrin, what do you make of this testimony we got from a live
witness, Bryan Hopkins, that this guy was picking them off. They`d get up.
He`d shoot them when they got up. They would get down, he left them alone.
He said he was playing like them like a board game or something, an
electronic game. He said the guy was shooting, he was sniping.

PORCHER: The witness or the person that shot is in the state of fear. So
I can understand them looking at it from that perspective. But the truth
of the matter is, we just have a person firing aimlessly. He is destined
to hit hundreds of people from –


PORCHER: We look at three football fields, that`s nothing when we look at
a .223 or a .366 rifle.

MATTHEWS: Right. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, David Shepherd,
Darrin Porcher, I just spoke with, and Shawn Henry.

Coming up, harrowing witness accounts continue following last night`s
shooting. We`re going to speak to one man who was just a few feet from the
stage when the gunfire rang out.

Our coverage continues after this.


MATTHEWS: As we mentioned earlier, the death toll from last night`s mass
shooting now stands at 59 dead, 527 injured. Do you believe it? Five
hundred twenty-seven people injured, in addition to the deaths.

And the latest, let`s go to NBC`s Steve Patterson who is in Las Vegas.

Steve, give us the latest, what we have missed so far that we haven`t done

it`s nearly 20 hours since that fatal shooting, which is just in the scene
behind the police blockade that is behind me.

What I can tell you is we were here almost immediately after that shooting
started ringing out in this area. This was, if you can believe it, this
was the staging area for police, EMTs, for fire crews, for everybody that
was a first responder on that scene. It was completely littered with squad
cars, mostly with units and guys in full riot gear and long guns going from
hotel to hotel to hotel doing sweeps.

As we arrived on scene, there was a crowd of people rushing our way because
of the gunfire that was ensuing behind them.


PATTERSON: As we went in, we heard victim stories, as we`ve been hearing
all day. I mean, we`ve been hearing about a woman who used the bodies
around her to play dead, to escape the fire. We heard about a woman who
hid in a bush to escape that gunfire. And people who were shepherding
those folks from the scene in their cars away from the scene to safety.

So, tremendous stories of survival here on scene, Chris.

MATTHEWS: Well, you`re there for the scene. Thank you, NBC`s Steve
Patterson, with that great report in Las Vegas.

One of the witnesses to last night`s mayhem joins us by phone. Buzz
Brainard is host of “The Highway”. That`s on Sirius XM Radio. He was just
a few feet from the stage when the shooting started.

Buzz, tell me about what you saw, what you felt, what you went through.

Well, we were in the artist tent, which is right off the stage. And it was
our last – our last performance of the three-day festival. And we`d been
here for three days, and everybody was in a good mood celebrating. And we
heard the bam bam bam bam bam.

And I think everybody just thought it was fireworks. And I heard that from
everybody. And it happened again. People stepped out of the tent. And
somebody said it might be some of the power lines above us. And then the
third time we realized it was gunfire.

And so, we were lucky because we were in the backstage area where there was
a lot of equipment and there was some tour buses. And we immediately dove
under the tour buses for cover. And the bullets were coming down you and
you could see them hitting the dirt in front of you. And the dirt would
shoot up in your face.

We stayed there for a while. And then security decided it was time for us
all to leave. So, we all got to run, everybody backstage. And our
quickest exit was right over the stage, running straight away from Mandalay

And we joined – we joined the masses of people who were trying to exit,
the 22,000 who were in the middle there and it was just chaos, and, you

MATTHEWS: Buzz, when it first happened, and you first realized something
was going on and people were getting shot, what was your instant guess who
was doing it? What was your first instinct?

BRAINARD: We didn`t have a clue because you didn`t know where it was
coming from, and that`s why we started running because we thought, maybe
there were charging towards the venue. So, if we have known, it was just
somebody stationary. We were safe under the buses, but everybody there was
just trying to run because we didn`t know how many people. There was so
many shots that we didn`t have an idea and the idea was to run as far away
as quickly as we could.

And I have my son in town. He lives in L.A. He came to visit, hang with
his dad and watched the concert, and I grabbed his hand and we sprinted
until we made it to the Tropicana.


BRAINARD: And we thought we`re safe.

MATTHEWS: Buzz, thank you. Buzz Brainard, I have to say, I congratulate
you on working for Sirius XM. It`s a big part of my life listening to that
radio. I love that station.

Joining me right now by phone, Brian Claypool. He`s another witness to
last night.

Brian, you have been heralded as a very good witness. Give me the color of
this horror. What it was like to actually be in part of it.

staying in what`s called the neon lounge area, which was a VIP (INAUDIBLE),
just to the left of the stage. So, Jason (INAUDIBLE) with the audience.
My section is to the left.

So, I was actually in the front row, so I was exposed to where the shooting
came down. And by the way, I was staying on the 24th floor of the Mandalay

So, about the fourth song in, I heard a few pops. They felt very close,
thought it was fireworks, Jason on the last annex (ph), looked up in the
air. I didn`t see any fireworks. That worried me.

And then Jason now being kind of hesitated during the song when those pops
hit. That worried me, kind of paused and then a few seconds later, heard
about five or 10 more pops, and the part that really sears my mind is that
Jason now being actually dropped his guitar, threw it to the ground and
sprinted, off the stage. So, I know that moment, there is something very
serious going on.

I ran – I started running and I only made to a little ways, a little part
of the stairwell to go out of the VIP area and then the mass – I mean, I`m
talking – it had to go on for 30 seconds. It was forward after forward
(ph), there was nothing in between. It was boom, boom, boom, boom, boom,
boom –


CLAYPOOL: – for 30 seconds.

MATTHEWS: Could you tell where it was coming from? Could you hear it
coming from the Mandalay Bay 32nd floor? Can you sense it was that

CLAYPOOL: Well, we – nobody – I mean, anybody tells you they knew that
was coming from inside that venue, I don`t think they`re being honest,
because I thought – I knew it was coming from a direction in the Mandalay,
but I thought the shooter was just outside the gate. There`s about a five-
foot fence strip behind, that`s continuous to Las Vegas Boulevard.


CLAYPOOL: I was right in that corner area to Mandalay Bay is, kind of
(INAUDIBLE), where I thought the shooter was right outside the gate and
based on the number of shots, I thought there was multiple shooters. I
mean (INAUDIBLE) in your views. Is there one shooter? Two shooters?
Three shooters? Are they going to jump the fence and then we`re in big

So, that was going through, you know, my mind –

MATTHEWS: Well, acoustics can confuse you. Acoustics are tricky
businesses and you don`t know. But anyway, thank you for that, Brian
Claypool, for, you know, great firsthand account.

Our coverage of last night`s tragedy in Las Vegas will continue after this.


MATTHEWS: President Trump called last night`s shooting in Las Vegas an act
of pure evil. In the past, the president has said that mass shootings
would be less deadly if more people carried guns to protect themselves.
The White House lowered its flag to half-mast today and held a moment of
silence on the South Lawn. There is the flag flying there.

President Trump is planning on going to Las Vegas on Wednesday after
traveling as planned to Puerto Rico tomorrow.

I`m joined right now by NBC`s Hallie Jackson at the White House.

So, what are the president`s plans in terms of reacting to this horror?

you`ve seen some of it already, Chris. You`ve seen the moment of silence.
You`ve seen the president scramble the morning plans that he had. He was
supposed to hold a deregulation event. And instead, he came out and
delivered that speech. As you noted, calling what happened in Las Vegas an
act of pure evil.

This speech was more spiritual in tone than what we`ve heard from the
president before. He used language about Scripture, language about faith
that he hasn`t always talked about after moments like these.

We then saw the president add to his schedule what we`re watching right
now, which is that moment of silence with the first lady, the vice
president and the vice president`s wife as well, Chris. And then, Sarah
Huckabee Sanders said now is not the time to be talking about gun control,
which here in Washington some lawmakers, particularly Democrats do want to
have the conversation about.

MATTHEWS: Well, we have to wonder when we do have a conversation about it,
if not now.

Anyway, NBC`s Hallie Jackson at the White House.

With more than 500 injured last night, incredible numbers injured in Las
Vegas. Officials are calling for blood donations.

I`m joined now by NBC`s Jo Ling Kent who is at a blood bank out in Las

Jo Ling, thank you.


This line stretches about 150 yards. And I want to show how long this line
is. People have been standing here five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten
hours. And what they want to do is donate blood because the city has
called for it.

Obviously, there are 500 folks in the hospital injured who need that, but
what you see here is an outpouring of community support. It`s a really
remarkable feeling.

Even though this tragedy has hit Las Vegas so hard, you have you the public
coming together in a way that a lot of people here say they`ve never seen
before. And so as a result, you have families bringing groceries, donating
food. Big companies, small bakeries, all coming out to make sure everyone
is hydrated, that they`re eating, that they`re able to wait in line.

And all the way around here, you see there are folks lined up, and they are
all here to donate blood, Chris. And they`re not going to close down until
they can`t take anymore.

MATTHEWS: It`s so great to see that. Thank you, Jo Ling Kent, to bring us
something to feel good about in this horror.

You can donate blood, by the way, with United Blood Services. That`s
United Blood Services at 6930 West Charleston, in Las Vegas. See the
numbers up there, it`s 601 Whitney Ranch Drive in Henderson. That`s
another place.

That`s HARDBALL for now. Thanks for being with us.

Our coverage continues right now from Las Vegas with “ALL IN WITH CHRIS


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